The Joc Pederson Dilemma

For me it is important that we sign Cole or Strassberg. We need the second ace. If May or Urias turn out to be good, we could have a great starting group. I would pass on Rendon. I like Joc, but he is not a complete player. I would trade Joc. I would also trade Maeda, if he wanted to be a starter. I think Maeda could be a great reliever. Keep Stripling and Goslin as spot starters or in the pen. I would also trade either Taylor or Kike. I think Pollock will have a good year.

MT – Good game yesterday, heartburn 1st. half , but as usual we seemed to wear Stanford down in the 2nd half… I’ll take a 10-2 season… I still think we should beaten Bulldogs.

Boy did I love to see Alabama’s coach whining like a big man’s ass.. Ohio St. – Auburn could be a barn burner..

Truthfully I dont see the Dodgers making any huge moves, they’ve gotten cheap and dont want to spend money they go for older and cheaper talent but let’s ride this wave out and see what happeneds

I’m not sure you need two aces to win the World Series, but both teams, Houston and Washington, rode that to success. Didn’t hurt that Patrick Corbin, the Nats number three and a free agent signing, really did a great job coming out of the pen.

But, it really can be a difference maker, and I don’t think you can argue about it. The bullpen oriented teams, Tampa Bay and Milwaukee, didn’t make it. Doesn’t hurt to have clutch hitting either.

When you look at Cody Bellinger’s season and consider that he pretty much had no one hitting behind him (some times Taylor or Hernandez), you could probably make a case for Rendon or Donaldson. Maybe Seager returns to form and becomes that hitter.

As funny as it sounds, I’m not sure if the Dodgers get past the Nats and they should have, that they would have beat the Astros in the World Series. Not sure they were built to win it all.

That seems to be the crossroads that Friedman and the Dodgers are looking at this winter, which lends credence to Friedman’s comment about something being missing. Losing always teaches you more than winning. In the long run that may be the turning point the Dodgers need as they move forward.

I remember reading a comment many years ago that the Dodgers winning a World Series in 1988 actually proved harmful to the team moving forward because it allowed the Dodgers to ignore the flaws in the structure and the approach going into the 90s.

I’m wondering how many teams will have 2 aces next year? Since it’s required to win a World Series.

I would love to keep Chicken Strip if he’s willing to be the Swingman.

I’m watching ND right about now, PJ.

One of the best college games I have ever been to was 4 years ago at Palo Alto with ND.

It will all boil down to whether Boras gets his number of not. Boras’ number is likely close to $350 M. I think AF will offer Cole 6 years at $240 M. Cole also wants to win… and hopefully, he wants to win without cheating. If so, he will want to be a Dodger.

I am OK with JOC and AJ in LF, but that means that JOC walks next year without compensation… I cannot see giving him the QO.

P.S. No way NY takes Pollock unless you include $30 M.

But Cole is a guy who can win two playoff games in a series by himself. That is a huge advantage over the next 4-5 years. And if Buehler continues to develop and we hit it big with either May or Urias then we’re looking at multiple championships. As much as I love Rendon, I think Cole is a bigger advantage

Gray – agree that he needs another year but I’m really anxious to see what he can contribute in 2021. I would not trade him except for someone spectacular.

Kike vs CT3 – Taylor has more trade value if for no other reason than that he has an extra year of control. That said, I’d still rather keep Taylor, although I would really miss Kike’s personality.

Howie K. – I’ve always liked him, ever since his days with the Angels but I think at this stage of his career he’s an AL guy. Some DH and some first base seems like his best situation..

7th inning reliever – how about Joe Smith? Side armer who would give us a different look from the right side and his stats are pretty even between left and right handed hitters. I hadn’t ever paid a lot of attention to him but took a look at his stats today and they’re fairly impressive. Not sure what it would take to sign him though. Could be more years and $ than AF would spend for a 7th inning guy.

The Dodgers signed Pollock to play CF. If he no longer can, trade him even if it means eating some of his salary.

If possible, I would trade Pollock and Baez for Diaz.

I wouldn’t hesitate to trade Verdugo for Betts.

I would trade Muncy and Taylor and Maeda for Lindor and lefty reliever.

SS. Lindor

3B. Seager

RF Betts

CF. Bellinger

1B Turner

LF. Pederson

C. Smith

2B. Lux

Buehler, Kershaw, Urias, Stripling, May

Jansen, Diaz, lefty reliever from Cleveland, Gonsolin, Ferguson,

This team does not need to be blown up. I agree with Cassidy that this team does not need to make one move and will still win the N L West going away. The DBacks have made a couple of big trades for prospects, top 10 catcher, and a potential top of the rotation pitcher. They are still not ready to chase down the Dodgers. They will non tender more than $10MM in expected contracts and give them even more capability to make some additions. The Pads could very well be the most improved team in the NL. They still need to wait for Gore and Patino to join the rotation, and they do need some more offense, but they are getting closer. I have no idea how their new manager will do. I think they can get to .500 this year. The Giants and the Rockies should be at the back of the Division.

But that is now, and the Dodgers should not even be thinking about how to make the regular season team better. Their offseason moves need to concentrate on the playoffs. Sure that means putting the cart in front of the horse, but there is not any team in the NL (probably MLB) that is deeper than the Dodgers. But there are plenty that have as many elite players.

The one absolute is that today it takes at least two Aces to win it all. Buehler is an Ace but the Dodgers do not have that second Ace. Kersh is a #3 right now. Just like golfers are no longer intimidated by Tiger, MLB hitters do not feel intimidated by CK. He needs to make that an advantage and become a lot less predictable. He is still formidable, but no longer elite. And just like Tiger in the 2019 Masters, CK is very capable of dominating on occasion. Maeda is a #5, and no matter how much someone believes Urias or May or Gonsolin will dominate, they have not yet. I want to win in 2020 as well 2021/2022, etc. when those young guns could be ready to dominate. But they are not ready to be considered as Ace material yet, and leaves LAD needing a 2nd Co-Ace to match up with Buehler.

The Dodgers will not trade both Maeda and Stripling. They will not trade either if they do not sign or trade for another Ace. I think Jo Jo Gray needs another year. I am glad to see more Ross Stripling fans. It used to be a very small rooting section for Strip on here.

AF needs to trade one of Kike’ or CT3. Both strike out too much. Kike’ has more power, and both are good defensive players that play all over. But IMO, CT3 is the more consistent player. Of course in the playoffs, consistency is not that critical. Both are capable of getting hot at the right time. Find out who brings the most back in return and let that be the decider.

Joc – I have written about Joc and Champ, and I believe he is one of the finest humans around. He loves being a Dodger and is a great teammate. He was the true 2017 WS MVP. He does not get hurt. But as I have said for the last several years, I am indifferent when it comes to Joc as a baseball player. He is certainly at his zenith right now in trade value, but it needs to be for a significant return, and one who can help the Dodgers better in 2020 than Joc could. That may be hard to find. I would be happy to see Joc platooning in LF next year as a Dodger. I would be happy for him if he was traded to a team that will play him all the time and if the Dodgers were able to package him for an elite pitcher; starter or relief.

I do not think that Josh Donaldson is that much of an improvement over JT to lose Lux for a year. I would rather give Lux a year to establish himself. But what Donaldson does bring is a different mentality. I have read that Rendon is a lot like Belli/Seager/Pollock/Smith, very stoic. Intense but stoic. While Donaldson brings a different dynamic to the clubhouse. Is he a Reggie Jackson type that can carry a team? He hasn’t yet, while Reggie did with both Oakland and NYY. Maybe Verdugo’s fire was truly the missing ingredient from last year’s NLDS. Would he have made a difference? We will never know, but I like the fire more with him in the lineup than without.

I know Mark is a big Castellanos fan, but he is another that I just do not see as a difference maker on this team, I won’t cite stats. But I would be fine with the AJ Pollock that played the 2nd half of last year. And while AJ was particularly bad in the NLDS, not one player stepped up. That is what needs to change. I like Donaldson in that role much more than Castellanos.

I would be happiest if the Dodgers beat every other team in their quest for Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg. Then go out and get the two best 7th and 8th inning relievers and/or closer available. And then look for their next David Freese. I actually believe that AF thinks that could be Tyler White, but I would rather have that proven RH bat off the bench. I would not be against a reunion of Howie Kendrick.

Whoever we sign it’s all about the playoffs. We could win the West next year without signing anybody. So who makes a bigger difference in the playoffs, Rendon or Cole?

We all have an opinion about our players. That’s what makes us fans.

Joc, I think will improve, but not against LHP. I have always said he was not a complete player and should not be platooned, but traded. I like Joc, he has grown on me, but like Mark said, we could use a good contact hitter and I think we’re covered in the outfield without him. 45 HR’s seem fair for him. We can make up a lot of games against LHP with the right trade(s).

I don’t see Castellanos as a real target for the FO. They certainly could use another RHB, though.

Asian players are usually very loyal to their teams. Very rarely do they exhibit ‘me, first’ attitudes or demands. I respect Maeda and he’s given us some nice moments but he is at best, a #5 starter or a BP piece. If he really is unhappy in the BP, we should try to trade him to a team of his liking. OTOH, Ryu should be signed. Hill should be a goner, not an afterthought, IMO. He did very well with the Blue but it’s time to let him go.

PS-The Dodgers could also keep Joc to be our future DH, but then again, it would only by for RHP. Same dilemma.

I disagree on trading Joc. Even with the juiced ball, players who hit 36 HR don’t grow on trees. I would rather have him and Pollock platoon in left than anyone not named Mookie Betts. I would let Joc, AJ and CT3 platoon in left. I put Bellinger in right and leave him there. He’s the best RF in baseball and he was most productive offensively when he played RF. If Verdugo is healthy, he is my center fielder. I would also platoon AJ with Verdugo against tough left-handers. That way everyone gets 400+ at bats and earns their money. I also hold out hope (pipe dream perhaps), that one day DJ Peters will be our big right-handed bat.

I would not be opposed to adding Donaldson. JT’s defense suffered last year and maybe a move across the diamond will be of help to him and the Dodgers.

I would also keep Stripling over Maeda. I am an unabashed Stripling fan.

I think Kike and CT3 are redundant, and prefer CT3 over Kike. I think Kike would be good trade material and I would trade him before I traded Joc.

Primary focus for me would be a strong arm for the rotation and 2 quality relievers,

First of all, thanks Mark for providing this forum for discussing Dodgers baseball.

Okay, Joc Pederson, really mixed feelings on this. Lot of production to replace. Plus, he’s really involved in the communitjy, representing the Dodgers. He’s also streaky, has issues with lefthanders, but he produces when it counts.

On the other side, the Dodgers have too many outfielders and not enough at bats to around. Alex Verdugo is going to start, probably right or center, with Bellinger in the other outfield slot. AJ Pollock will be in left. He’s not going anywhere. His second half and all the big hits earned him that. I think he’s stays healthy and has a big year. Still a good defensive outfielder with speed and power.

The only real questions for the Dodgers this winter are third base, the rotation and the bullpen. Justin Turner is fine at third, but the Dodgers will look at Anthony Rendon, who will make them better offensively and defensively. That does create a bit of what do you do with Max Muncy and Gavin Lux problem. I’m guessing Turner continues to be productive the next two or three years and I can see the Dodgers extending him. In many ways, he’s the heart and soul of the team.

So where does that leave us? Back to pitching, starters and relievers. If the Dodgers could make it happen tomorrow, I think they sign Gerrit Cole. I think they make him a very good offer. Friedman recently said the Dodgers have made substantial free agent offers, six years, high dollars twice during his time, but didn’t get the player. One of those offers was probably Zack Greinke, six years, close to $160 million.

Now the team has considerable financial room and they will be aggressive, especially since they haven’t won since 1988 and Friedman has acknowledged that something is missing. Stadium renovation, All-Star game just add to the Go Big thinking.

It is probably financially feasible to add Donaldson and Cole. But who knows how that plays out? Whatever happens, pitching is still the main target. I don’t think Ryu or Hill are out of the picture.

Bring on the Winter Meetings, hopefully they’ll have something to talk about.

I can see trading both Maeda and Stripling for reasons mentioned above. The problem though is who would be our 7th starter (assuming a top of the rotation addition and Gonsolin is the 6th). With injuries and rest at least 7 starters are needed and 8 is likely.

Joc – agree he should be traded while he still has trade value. He, along with another piece such as Kike could bring back a decent reliever or be part of a Kluber deal.

Pollock – agree with 59 that he won’t be a fourth outfielder and I don’t think he’s tradeable this year. Start him in left until he proves he can’t do it. Forget the WS performance, but can he stay healthy?

Third base – sign Donaldson or Rendon

Casty – not needed

Maeda – do everyone a favor and trade him. He isn’t happy here and definitely has trade value

#1 or 2 starter – absolutely must sign one of Cole, Strasburg, Wheeler, Ryu or trade for Kluber (that could blow up in our face if he doesn’t revert to the old Kluber but I would do it if I couldn’t get one of the other four)

2nd Base – Muncy and Lux (assuming he is producing) can both get playing time there with one of them also getting some time in left when Pollock sits and Muncy relieving JT at first when needed.

Do we really know that Maeda is “Disgruntled” ? Maybe his agent has told him that he needs to stick up for himself a bit since his contract is based on incentives. He signed this because of questions about his elbow which has been fine. Probably the most healthy SP since he signed. If he goes into the playoffs knowing he is not one of the top 2 or 3 SP’s I would have to believe he would have no problem going to the pen. If we do trade him that will just be 2 instead of 1 bullpen arms we will need for the playoffs that we will lose prospects for at the deadline . Plus he is 1 of only 2 Dodgers who know how to bunt ! He does seem to be best suited for a 6 man rotation though.

Castellanos’ glove will be good enough until he botches one in the playoffs, Joc for me, Rumor is he will hit 45 dingers this year.

I am all in for trading Joc with the following caveats: (1) Dodgers replace the offense lost from the platoon in LF. It isn’t just Joc’s offense you give up by signing Castellanos as the full time LF’er, it is also the offense lost from the platoon partner, whether that be Pollock (you did not include him; I don’t see Dodgers paying him $16M a season to be a 4th OF’er), or Hernandez, or Taylor; and, (2) the team receives equal, or better, players in return. In 2019 Joc’s Fangraphs wRC+ (weighted runs created – equivalent to Baseball Reference OPS+) was 127 compared to Josh Donaldson 132 – five percentage point difference is only marginally better. In you suggested lineup, Gavin Lux is missing so you subtract offense lost by sending Lux back to OKC. I like Castellanos, but it doesn’t appear that he will be an upgrade over the current Dodgers left field platoon. The equation changes substantially if Rendon’s 154 wRC+ is inserted into the lineup in place of Donaldson. And, DO NOT TRADE Verdugo!

I like the lineup and rotation possibilities. But, there’s no chance they’re going to sign Casty and make Pollock a 4th outfielder. I think deep down you know that. Zero chance! Write that down, take it to the bank.

I also think there’s zero chance they would get rid of both Stripling and Maeda.

I agree about Joc. They have plenty of outfielders and I just don’t see them extending him. Better to get something for him while you can.