The Dodgers Only Care About Winning the NL West

Obviously you know a lot more than I do on the subject, but what you’re saying is when Pete Rose was a manager. I’m not saying he’s a HOF manager but should be in as a HOF player regardless if he lied about his gambling addiction. Did he EVER not give 110% while he was a player? You’d have a hard time convincing me that he didn’t.

Stupid ones!

CAWS!

Here’s an actual quote I read today about the punishment the Astros received:

Whatever they give those guys for sentences they ought to give the Dodger owners and Friedman for cheating their fans out of enough talent to win a World Series. They suck.

As Jimmy Buffett said, “There is no dumbass Vaccine.” That guy just took a lethal dose of No Brains.

The Astros were ahead of the Dodgers with Driveline Baseball. Freidman is frantically trying to catch up, which is why he hired Rob Hill (I am sure that was an expensive hire). Driveline and other analytics-driven sources were responsible for “fixing” Justin Verlander and making him even better than he was before.

The Dodgers are hoping Rob Hill can help deliver that same kind of “magic” with Clayton Kershaw, Blake Treinen, Joe Kelly, Kenley Jansen, Jimmy Nelson, and Alex Wood. Will Hill and Prior be successful on all six pitchers… probably not, but 3 or 4 are a possibility. This stuff is not voodoo. It’s real, it’s solid and it works.

Also, they have a second year of RVS. That could be huge.

I would say to William, that the Dodgers did not make any big moves because they didn’t need to. They will let the game come to them. If it turns out they have a need at the Deadline, they will make a move… if not, then why?

Because right now their bullpen is much better and their starting pitching is better and our post season offense has been disappointing so advantage Yankees. How do you think it goes for the Dodgers with October Kershaw pitching twice against that right handed power Yankee lineup? Hint- not well! That’s why I’ve been saying our biggest need is for a second ace to pair with Buehler and for either Urias or May to transform into stardom quickly

What’s worse, what the Astros did or what Pete Rose did? I think it’s what the Astros did, and if you don’t ban the Astro players involved for life, then Pete Rose shouldn’t be banned for life either. Go ahead and ban him from participating in any MLB activities, but to not have the player with the most hits EVER in the game not in the HOF is ridiculous. Lying is wrong but cheating is worse.

Why do people insist on saying that the Yankees are better than Dodgers? They have Cole, and so what? He was not perfect, he also lost some games, why do you suppose Dodgers would not be able to beat him? Besides, he won’t have the help (cheater) he had in Houston…

The season is not yet started, come on, not even the spring games and they are almost taking it for granted that we can’t beat NY!

I agree AC and I actually enjoy Mark continually stirring the pot on various issues. This particular issue has drawn a great deal of interest, especially from those who don’t think the Dodgers have done enough. That’s true on this site and with some people I talk with, plus it has shown up in media stories, which seem to appear every couple of days or so. It has been a popular subject on MLB TV and radio. Pretty much the endless discussion although the Astros cheating scandal has pushed some of it aside for the moment.

This is a fun site because Mark and others make it fun by offering interesting topics and most of the commentary is excellent, no matter if you agree or disagree with each other. And yes, Mark does like stirring the pot to see what rises.

Some people are unhappy the Dodgers don’t pursue some free agents and actually land them. Then there are trades where some may prefer keeping prospects if the costs are deemed too high and others who want to make the big trade now, no matter the cost. If not now, when?

I always do the surveys the Dodgers send me and because I’m a ticket holder someone always calls and follows up. The Dodgers are actually quite good at seeking fan feedback.

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone from the Dodgers actually follows what is being said on this and other sites.

I told the Dodger staffer (same guy calls every year) a couple of years ago that I wanted them to sign Bryce Harper, not because the Dodgers needed him, but because they raise the price of season tickets every year and I think he would fun to watch. I want to be entertained, especially if they keep increasing the cost. Some players are entertaining and some are not. Zack Greinke was fun, which is one of the reasons I wasn’t happy when they failed to re-sign him. I think Lindor would be fun to watch, but I like Cory Seager, just a good player, but one who seldom shows emotion.

Maybe I’m wrong, but Anthony Rendon just doesn’t look a really fun player. Just not enough Hollywood in him. Justin Turner does that Hollywood style, which is why I really didn’t want the Dodgers to pursue Rendon. It would have also messed up the Gavin Lux starting at second.

If you actually take a hard look at big time players, they often don’t make a difference. Manny Ramirez did. I thought Gerrit Cole was the only real difference maker among the free agents. The Dodgers made a great offer. Oh well. But missing out on the others, sorry I just didn’t think there was anybody who have put the Dodgers over the top. This is really an elite team and only a truly elite player can make a difference and most likely be a pitcher. I’m guessing the front office felt the same way.

I certainly didn’t want the Dodgers to pursue David Price. Hey, he might help you win a World Series. Or he might be hurt and miss most of the season. Then he could be healthy and just not be very good.

I was actually happy to see the Dodgers sign AJ Pollock and Joe Kelly last winter. Still glad they did, part of the solution. Pollock can flat out hit, he just has to stay away from freak injuries and Kelly has some of the best stuff I’ve seen, he just needs to find consistency for an entire season. Both are worth the risk.

This year I wanted them to sign Blake Treinen and bring back Alex Wood, then take a shot on Jimmy Nelson. I think they’ve done what needed to be done. Yah, I like a big time star, but who and at what cost?

We may have to wait for July for any major acquisitions. But I like this team.

Casey Sadler was traded to the Cubs for 24 year old utility infielder/outfielder Clayton Daniel. Clayton was a 2018 draftee with the Cubs (31st round) after four years at Jacksonville St. Last year he hit a combined .305/.397/.402/.799 at Low A (Midwest League) and AA (Southern League). He is 5′ 7″ and 170 pounds. He has probably been told his entire baseball life that he was too small to play MLB.

He is a MiLB utility player so his chances at making the Show are remote, but who knows. He is a good lottery pick for a reliever that was not going to make the LAD 26 man roster.

I am sure DC will have a complete write up on our latest Clayton.

People need to stop defending Pete Rose. He gambled as a player and as a manager. Every time he has a story it gets proven to be a lie. Let’s pretend he didn’t bet on them to lose, how we’re the games managed differently when he bet on them to win. How did he use his roster differently? How did that affect the days he didn’t bet? What message did it send to the bookies when he didn’t bet. The guy broke the rules, he lied, he’s changed his story, then gets caught lying again because they have boatloads of evidence against the bum. The guys records a memorabilia are in the Hall. That’s good enough.

Ask the Yankees if they’d like to unload Stanton”s contract. You bet they would! Would anybody here want Harper and Machado’s contacts? Not me! Muncy outperformed both of them. Fact is most mega long term contracts have been a bust. AF went all in on Cole as was the right move. But unlike here not everyone is a Dodger fan and Cole was a Yankee fan. Nothing AF could have done. One of the best things AF has done is that we are not saddled with a debilitating long term contract. The best way to build a sustainable winning team is to develop young talent and add that winning piece. That piece wasn’t Haywood for the Cubs! And Epstein is supposed to be one of the best in the business. Stop complaining about the past. Everyone is a perfect armchair qb! Give me a move they should make this year to win a WS. And we won’t really know what that final piece may be until the trade deadline! And we did have the best team in 17 thx to AF and the Astros had to cheat to take it away from us!

Thank you AC.

What was MLB thinking putting a live replay feed right next to the dugout and then tell everyone they can’t look at it? Did they really not foresee the problems?

I recognize this is a pot stirring topic, but in the middle of January what else is a worthy topic. I know I find it hard to come up with anything fresh. I know as much as Mark (or me) or others are dumbfounded with those that believe the Dodger ownership is not committed to winning, I know that we are not going to change the minds of those that believe the Dodgers ownership is not as much committed to winning. After reading both William’s and Dodgerrick’s counterpoint to Mark, I find Dodgerrick more reasoned, while I believe William’s is more emotional. Gee, reason and emotion in baseball. Go figure!

Minority ownership of a $3+ Billion dollar company is not at all concerned with annual operational income. Do they like it? Of course. But what Mark wrote with regards to the value of a franchise increasing very significantly with a WS championship is what all owners (minority and majority) desire. That is what makes an ownership share filthy rich. There are many investors (non-baseball) who like their dividends. They love to clip coupons. They love safety over wealth risk and loss. Then there are those that love to invest for the growth in value of an entity where they can cash in on the increased equity which will far outpace the dividend investor. My guess (a very educated guess) is that the Dodger owners are already very wealthy, and Dodger annual operational profits did not persuade them to become an owner or stay as one. They are not coupon clippers or dividend driven investors. They are equity driven. The best way to increase the value of the Dodgers is to win a WS.

I keep hearing about how the Dodgers blew it by not trading for Verlander. For those who believe that, you continue to refuse to recognize that the Dodgers had a VERY SIGNIFICANT debt compliance issue staring at them right in the face. They had substantial payroll already on the books with no easy way of getting out of the quagmire when they told MLB they would get under the CBT threshold by 2018. Trading for Verlander would have made that impossible, and while I have no idea what the penalties would have been, Dodger owners did and acted accordingly.

I continually wrote that I wanted the Dodgers to go BOLD for 2020. What that really meant for me was Gerrit Cole. Pay him above the previous historic contract amount. And they did offer $300MM for 8 years. That was $83MM greater than David Price full contract and the AAV ($37.5MM) was more than Greinke’s record AAV and greater than what he ultimately signed with NYY. LAD lost a contract battle they were never going to win, because NYY would have matched whatever LAD offered knowing that Cole had always wanted to be a NYY. In free agency, it is the player that gets to choose where to play for whatever reason. Cole wanted NYY and chose them over a better AAV offer from the Dodgers.

Another constant concern for me has always been the bullpen. But I am not sure what AF can do, other than what he did do last June Rule 4 Amateur Draft. Relief in MLB is so hit and miss (mostly miss) that when a team finds an elite reliever they are going to hold on to them. That is what the Dodgers did with KJ after 2016. Not a great return on the investment, but AF did show he was willing to spend on an elite reliever. He tried for Felipe Vazquez last year, and thankfully the Pirates could not pull the trigger on their side. This winter there was ONE quality FA reliever…Will Smith. Smith was going to play in either Atlanta or SF. He wasn’t talking with anyone else. Atlanta made a great offer within a few hours of Smith accepting the QO from SF. Now what? What FA pitcher has the highest ceiling, even with a big question mark? Blake Treinen. Treinen has indicated that there were better offers out there for him, but he wanted to pitch for the Dodgers. He has no ego when it comes to closing. He will be satisfied to be KJ’s setup. If he comes anywhere near what he did in 2018, the Dodgers will be the recipient of a great back end bullpen. I suspect those that are critical of Treinen now will be eating those words as they did for Joe Blanton and Brandon Morrow.

A couple years back baseball people were talking about how close Jimmy Nelson was to becoming an elite SP in MLB. Then his shoulder blew up. Interesting that Nelson is younger than Ryu was when he returned from shoulder surgery and we all saw what Ryu did last year. How about we give Nelson a chance to prove or disprove that he is capable of being a quality pitcher. Of course, very few thought that Ryu would have been as good as he was, and it is understandable that Nelson would not be well received by those who do not trust AF or ownership.

Alex Wood was an All Star and was the best SP in the 2017 WS at Houston. Now to Dodgerrick, Alex may be infirm, but he is not old. At least I do not consider 29 to be too old for a pitcher. Driveline is the current hot button for pitchers trying to increase the MPH and spin rates. Wood apparently has been more than solid after his work at Driveline. I know I do not have to say how much of a fan of Alex Wood that I am. I just cannot wait to watch him again in a Dodger uni. I hope he goes off and signs an extension this summer. Interestingly enough KJ has been working with Driveline to work on his cutter spin rate. Rob Hill and Mark Prior are going to be big difference makers for the pitching staff.

So what it boils down to me is that there is no difference is who wants to win more…LAD or NYY. They both want to win, but have different philosophies as to how to get it done. William points out while NYY has not won in a while, they have won multiple championships since 1988. But what he continues to overlook is that NYY did it with primarily home grown talent rather than high priced FA. Once they started down the high priced FA path, their dynasty ended.

We are all Dodger fans. We just have different ideas how best to build the organization for a WS championship. I do think AF will make a significant trade at the deadline to address what he perceives the need is to get the team across the finish line. I also expect all of the criticism to come out at the same time.

How many teams will have better odds of winning a WS in the next 5 years?

Why was Sadler dfaed and not White? Both out of options. Did they think White had more to contribute to the team than Sadler? Not sure I understand this move. Comments?

Good lord.

There is no easier endeavor than to run a baseball club in hindsight.

Dodgers traded for Darvish over Verlander because they are cheap bastards!

Or maybe Darvish was the better pitcher prior to the trade? Lower WHIP, higher strikeout rate. Younger. Manifestation of greed can always be identified by the sheer lack of ownership’s precognitive ability. How could they have not known that Verlander (who’s career appeared to be on the decline) would become a completely different pitcher post trade. How could they have NOT known that his WHIP would drop from 1.3 pre trade, to .6 post trade! All that money spent on advance statistics and those greedy bastards didn’t want to break out the checkbook and hire Miss Cleo! She even told them “Call me now!”

Miss Cleo could have helped all along. She would have told AD that Yelich batting average would jump 40 points and his home run numbers would more than double, post trade.

And she would have warned AD NOT to trade for the best player available at the 2018 trade deadline. Because, I don’t know, wed lose the WS anyway and AD wouldn’t ever get any credit for how little he gave up for Machado and people would call him a cheap bastard anyway.

And Miss Cleo would definitely have told AD to sign Harper. Because while she, like so many Dodger fans, believes she posses a flawless ability to predict the future; she is absolutely abysmal at math.

And Cole. Cheap bastards let the guy determine his own fate. What the hell is that? AD could have hired some ex KGB to abduct the guys wife or something. Let him know signing with the Dodgers was NOT his choice. But no. The relentless drive to maximize profits does not permit expenditures for such things as kidnapping, extortion and terrorist threats. So sad. Profit over winning.

I stand with you all. Cheap bastards need to stop waisting money on all that SABR metrics garbage, player development, put profits aside and hire a damn psychic and some ex KGB enforcers.

Because, apparently, that’s how we win!

I don’t think that the primary object of the Braintrust’s approach to roster construction is to maximize profits – it’s efficiency. Win as many as possible as efficiently as possible. With that in mind, you rarely overpay for talent, but you miss out on players who might help you win. That’s what frustrates Dodger fans – at some point, you overpay for the right player if you think he pushes you over the top. The Dodgers haven’t done that even once in the Friedman era.

Both Roberts and Friedman intimated this off-season that there would be major changes to the Dodgers’ roster this in light of the 2019 playoff debacle – but the only major change is that 2/5 of the starting rotation from last season (including the Dodgers’ best pitcher from 2019) is gone and has been replaced by either the old and infirm (Nelson and Wood) or by largely untested kids with significant innings restrictions (Urias, May and Gonsolin).

I don’t think that this is the kind of change that Dodger fans anticipated when Roberts and Friedman said to look out for major changes this year.

As to the second point, no rational person believes that the Dodgers want to win the NL West and to go no further. However, I read constantly that all that a team needs to do is to get to the post-season and that luck or karma or something will take them the rest of the way. I do believe that is how the Braintrust operates the Dodgers. I would prefer to see them load up and try to have the best team getting to the post-season – not the luckiest.

I have been a Dodger fan since the mid-60s. Except for 1988, they have never been the luckiest team – just the opposite. Count on talent, not luck.

I don’t know who said that “all the Dodgers want to do is win the NL West,” but it wasn’t I. What I do think, and have stated, is that the Dodgers ownership is not as committed as a few other ownerships to doing the things necessary to have the best team in baseball in a given year; i.e., the most likely to win a title.

And I will not go through all the players again whom the ownership apparently thought were too expensive or required too long a contract for them to sign. They invariably have passed

on them (Scherzer, Verlander), or offered too little in money or trade pieces (Harper, Stanton, Yelich, Cole). There are others. One can excuse this one or that one, or say that we are lucky not to have someone, or that they never really wanted to be here, but the pattern is unmistakable. It is obvious what the ownership wants to do, which is to maximize profits, not be saddled with long-term deals, have as many cost-controlled players as possible.

They can do it that way, they own the team. The fans are just along for the ride. But ask yourselves, which of these two franchises is more committed to winning a title, the Dodgers or the Yankees? You can say, “Well, the Yankees haven’t won one in quite a while.” But they have won plenty i n the last 20 years, and I can see them winning something like three of the next five. And the Cardinals, who have three titles in the last twelve years or so, and who are not a major market team, have rebuilt, adding Goldschmidt, and now possibly Arenado, who is someone who apparently has wanted to play for the Dodgers, but they somehow never manage to get him.

Now, because of the scandal involving the Astros, and to a lesser extent, the Red Sox, some are mentally awarding those two titles to the Dodgers. As bad as the scandal undoubtedly is, that does not mean that the Dodgers would have won otherwise. Maybe the Yankees, who lost to the Astros in seven games in the 2017 ALCS, would have won it. One cannot replay the entire season with the Astros not cheating, and know how it would have come out, though it is certainly true that the Dodgers looked like the best team that season. Had they gotten Verlander instead of Darvish, they would have won the title, even thoughtHouston was cheating., but they didn’t want to pick up his contract for the extra year, the bottom line for them. It’s disgraceful that the Astros cheated in that manner, but it does not validate everything the Dodgers owners refuse to do as far as building the best teams reasonably possible within at least some financial constraints.

Finally, we all know that Friedman said after the season that something was missing. He was right. Not least of which was a bullpen which was clearly deficient all season and which was scarcely improved during the trade period in midseason., and which ended up being a major reason why we lost in our first playoff series. Roberts expected more turnover than ever. Most baseball “experts” said that the two teams which most needed to do something at the winter meetings were the Yankees and Dodgers. The Dodgers got Treinen, certainly iffy, for one year. They signed Nelson, who is hardly a high-ranked talent now. They have done nothing else. They have saved another $30 million or so in payroll. One of their major owners says that because the profit margin is high, they are doing the right things. Most fans are upset, but it doesn’t ruffle the owners, as long as the fans pay up.

So certainly the ownership would “like” to win a title, as most would. But it is hard for me to understand why it is not more obvious to most fans that the Dodgers, more so than some other franchises, are more focused on maximizing consistent profits in order to satisfy their large group of minority owners, than they are on building the best team in baseball in any given year. I will note that the Dodgers have not been the favorites to win the championship in any of the seasons in which Guggenheim has owned the team, and they are not for the upcoming season. Which does not mean that they could not win it, but that they are happy enough with stopping at being contenders, and then hoping that one season things go their way and they win it all. If that were to happen, I think that they would trumpet that for another three decades (like they kept showing 1988 highlights for years on Dodger TV), and be satisfied, whereas some other owners would want to keep the championships coming.

Ultimately I can only speak for myself on any of this, and I would just say that I have followed the Dodgers for decades, as has almost everyone here; and that I do not believe that the Dodgers ownership is a committed to trying to win titles as some others. It was a different era, in may ways, and there is no doubt that Walter O’Malley loved to make money; but I always felt that the Dodgers of the ’60’s wanted very much to win titles. And I do not think that this current ownership cares all that much–or maybe it is that they care, but they are not willing to sacrifice any profits to get them, whereas some other owners are in any given season. That’s why we almost always get outbid for the big name players we are ostensibly going after–except for Greinke, whom the ownership saw as necessary to secure the multibillion TV deal. When there are big profits at stake, they can come up with the money. When it is only about championships, they find rationales to not spend it.

The truth is it’s all about October. So it makes the most sense for AF to wait until the deadline to make a deal. It allows him to assess where the biggest need is. Who knows if Kersh develops a change up and has a Ryu year. If May, Urias and Gonsolin all hit it big and are Buehleresque! That would shut Cassidy up about needing a second ace. If Verdugo and Pollock are healthy and crushing it and Seager returns to all star form and we all say, can you believe we almost traded him for Lindor! Lux is rookie of the year and Joc has even a better year and we all say Betts couldn’t start for this team! Kelly starts throwing 99 on the corners instead of down the middle and Jansen and Treinen aren’t even giving up any hits much less runs with their sub 2 era’s. Point is we’ll have a much clearer picture by the end of July what we need to finish in October. And the cost to us in giving up young talent will be less for a shorter rental at 1/3 the salary. And the injury factor will be mitigated by 2/3rds. AF will once again strike at the deadline. It’s the smart move. And next year to be more cost efficient he will jointly sign a superstar with another California team. They get him for six months from April thru September at 6/7 th the salary and we get him for October!

So, I guess Mark wanted to stir the pot one more time on this issue. Probably won’t be the last time. He really enjoys stirring this particular pot. Which one of you with true outrage in his or her heart will jump into the fray?

Parting Shot Update above!

Totally disagree. If Friedman and Friends really wanted to win a World Series, they would’ve spent money on the finest buzzers and finest trash cans money can buy, but instead they gave the cash to Brandon McCarthy. Damn you Dodgers!!

As horrible as this cheating stuff has been, I can’t wait to get back to spring training. I’m sure our team (and the Yankees too) are super motivated this year and have something even more to prove. Looking forward to a Dodgers Yanks series again.