That the Dodgers snatched defeat from the jaws of victory is obvious. However, the implosion of the bullpen (Chaggy in particular) is a symptom, not the disease. The symptom manifests itself when the disease is active. The disease is “FailureToScoreRunsItis.” Last night, Dodger hitters left 12 runners stranded (combined). At the trade deadline, FAZ acquired two of the biggest bats on the market in Machado and Dozier. Add in a healthy Justin Turner, a Max Muncy who came out of his slump along with Cody Bellinger, Yasmani Grandal, Matt Kemp, Joc Pederson and Yasiel Puig and how in the hell can they only manage to score 2 runs in Coors?
Dozier and Machado were 1-7 at the top of the Dodgers’ lineup. JT was 2-4 as was Puig, who hit a two-run homer for the teams only runs, but he did that from the #7 spot, The heart of the order HAD NO HEART! These guys need to do some soul searching… I look for Rich Hill to struggle with hanging curve balls today in Coors, so the Dodgers better bring their bats.
Pedro Baez, JT Chagois and Scott Alexander are the same pitcher. They all throw hard, but have no idea where the ball will go. That’s why Baez and Chagois are so hittable – they leave them out over the plate for other hitters recreational enjoyment. That’s also why Alexander is not as hittable. He may not know where the ball is going because it moves like crazy, but neither does the hitter. Baez and Chagois should never pitch is a high-leverage situation. High leverage means: “With a lead less than 5 runs.” Actually, both cannot be on the same team. FAZ had better get one a ticket to OKC today.
They said they pulled Ferguson after one inning because he had thrown 28 pitches on Thursday. That’s lame! 10 or 15 more aren’t going to hurt him. I don’t buy what nonsense they are spewing. Caleb only threw 15 pitches, 11 of which were strikes. Let him throw a few more. You know I am not into second-guessing, but it was obvious to me at the time.
Of course, I would have loved to see FAZ pick up a bullpen arm… or three at the trade deadline, but at what cost? I heard from a pretty good source that the Reds asked for Lux and Uceta for Raisel Iglesias. Not happening. Let’s look at some of the other arms available or some other relievers:
- Kelvin Hererra – on the DL. Had a 4.76 ERA with diminished velocity with the Nats since the trade.
- Brandon Morrow – 2nd stint on the DL – Has only pitched 30 innings, but has pitched well.
- Kyle Bear Claw – 22.24 ERA since the All-Star Game
- Brad Ziegler – 9.00 ERA since Arizona acquired him
- Adam Conley – 4.32 ERA since the All-Star Break
- Jake Diekman – 6.00 ERA since Arizona traded for him
- Keone Kela – has pitched 4 innings since the trade with no runs allowed, but the Pirates traded their #9 prospect (LHP Taylor Hearn) for him.
- Brad Brach – Doing well for Atlanta with no runs in 5 innings. The O’s wanted international slot money for him and I doubt FAZ would do that, but I also don’t think he would fit under the LT.
I can go on and on, but the relief pitcher you trade for may not be the one you get, or you could be like the dumbass Nationals who wanted Ryan Madson and Sean Doolittle, so they traded Blake Treinen in 2017. One year later, Treinen may be the best closer in the game! He was actually better than the guys he was traded for last year. I wish the Dodgers had better relief pitchers, but I maintain that this team is built for the playoffs (with Ryu and Urias and Cingrani back). The trick is: THEY HAVE TO GET THERE! That’s the hard part.
Good News – Bad News
- Hyun-Jin Ryu will allegedly re-join the Dodgers rotation THIS week. This will likely move Maeda into the Closers role, if the Dodgers can “sell” Kenta on it – probably with the promise of a contract adjustment next year. If Maeda can wrap his head around the closer’s role and embrace it, then that will be a big help. When (IF) Kenley comes back, Kenta can be the 8th innning guy with Alexander.
- Tony Cingrani receive a cortisone injection in his left shoulder on August 3rd. The MRI showed no structural damage. If he’s pain-free, we may see him by the end of the month.
- Dave Roberts is looking pretty dumb right about now. Maybe Andrew Friedman ends up with Joe Maddon. There are rumblings and grumblings coming out of Chicago that he will be let go and Joe Giardi will come home. Maybe Dodger fans get their wish and Maddon comes back and unites with Andrew Friedman.
- Austin Barnes can’t jump out of a boat and hit water. Neither can Will Smith in OKC!
- Striker Buehler is looking Ace-esque!
- I hear that Honey thinks he can help Axford become great again… Wait… he never was great, was he?
Discussion (54)
Disagree, not disagreeable
When the whole team was doing bad against lefties it took the offseason for them to improve and then they did better than against righties. Perhaps it should be taken as these match ups do more harm to all batters by being shuffled and sitting because it don’t seem to do them any good. When they’ve got to get away to do self repairs could say that they don’t have enough data to play it correctly. It’s be a shame if playing for the Dodgers would be harmful to a players stats. But there are signs of that as well as -signs that the players aren’t buying into it. I do believe the F/O is more hands on than the average franchise, which isn’t wrong unless they’re insisting on doing things the wrong way even though it doesn’t compute to do it differently. Players don’t always compute. Sometimes ya gotta dance with the ones who brung ya though.
Now that it is a three team race things got a lot tougher. I believe one of Arizona and Colorado will get hot and we are going to need to follow suit. Whether we can is questionable, I fear Roberts right now, he has to finally manage a pen and he has shown no ability to do that. Hopefully the immense talent we have will overcome Roberts ineptitude.
Why Kemp is not on the dL and Verdugo up is beyond me. The rest may do Kemp some good, Verdugo is a better bat and glove right now. Every game counts and FAZ needs to get this one right. Kemp comes back in 10 days and maybe gets back to hitting a little, if not give him minimal bats in September and then DFA him in the fall. His BaBIP was bound to come back to earth, his abysmal walk rate was also going to catch up with him, and finally his inability to hit a slider was the final stake in his bat.
The organizational philosophy or maybe just Robert’s having absolutely no flexibility is becoming trying. The fact that Ferguson could not go an extra inning for his own protection was a joke, the fact hot bats sit due to matchups gets old, and is not working, strikeouts are up and home runs way down this month. Eye test means something. Rhythm means something, and right now with the offense struggling it is time for Roberts to get more consistent with our lineup and use some intuition and gut feeling. Who am I kidding, nothing is changing, hopefully talent can prevail over the last 43. Either way please call Dave an Uber, life coach needed at the local community college. Is Ladorda looking to get back into coaching, at 90 he could do better then Robot Roberts at this point.
It’s a game of inches! Last night, 9th inning 2-0, 2 outs, 2 on, 2 strikes. Where was that last strike? If not , couldn’t the pitch have been a little lower and have been hit to an infielder? Or maybe the FC on the previous play could have A DP. A matter of inches and we lose 3-2!
Washington fans understand us very well now. Unbelievable bullpen bullish
I quit watching after the sixth inning. They are boring. Toles and Verdugo need to come up. Taylor and Kemp need to sit for now. It is so hard to see what Doc does to the starting line up. If you get hot, you will sit. You could have a robot do as good a job as Doc. How Kike is a number 4 batter I would never know. I see the starting line up and I shake my head. Play Turner until he needs a rest. This could get away in a hurry. Clearly the bull pen was a problem and FAZ never addressed it. Enough blame to go around for everyone.
The Dodgers lost the past three games with three pitchers (Rosscup, Chargois, and Flora) who pitched a total of 17 innings in MLB in 2017. All were inserted in high stress late and close situations. If this doesn’t tell you about the makeup of our bullpen, nothing will.
Dang, the Giants for 3, then the Mariners and Cardinals. FAZ better figure it out quick. This could get ugly.
Is it just this board or are other sources criticizing Roberts as well? I don’t have access to the LA media so I haven’t seen any other critical comments.
My gut really tells me that if FAZ is all in this year,and by getting Machado and Dozier it sure seems like it, they are going to have to swallow hard, adjust their jock strap, and trade some of our guys to get a REAL closer. If not, the season may start to slip away. We can expect more tight games as the schedule progresses. We still have alot of games left against The D-Bags, Rockshow, and our pain in the ass Giants, who always play us tough. Yes, they made the wrong call by not juicing the bullpen up at the deadline, but it is not too late to fix it. No guarantees that either Strip or Maeda can close well. We all know we have plenty of guys for trading chips. This year the NL is there for the taking. Probably won”t be the case next year. Too many teams are getting good. Pull the trigger FAZ, pull the trigger.
The hardest thing Machado has hit has been his leg when he breaks his bat. Anemic Dodger offense not the BP lost this game. I’m officially off the Machado, CT3 qnd Kemp bandwagon. WTF with CT3, guy looks freaking horrible with his swing and misses
Well, Arizona didn’t cooperate and lose today. Thus we visit one game back. Without Jansen we can expect more like this as like this was pre-Jansen. Can’t little how valuable he’s been manning the closer role. or holding the tie.
An other sad lost
Could have used an electronic strike zone on Floro’s 2-1 pitch. And prior to that the Dodgers could have used a clutch hit in the top of the 9th.
Well – for all who think that Floro is another closer in waiting, 4 straight ball to Chris Ianetta with the bases loaded? What a painful way to lose? And only 3 runs in Coors again? Another 0 for for Machado?
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Bullpen stinks. It’s been bad all year. I have looked at a lot of numbers – Dodgers’ ‘pen toward the bottom in WAR, blown saves, etc. all season. But some here have said that there’s nothing to see here – all is wonderful. 3 straight bullpen losses in very painful ways. When does everyone admit that the emperor has no clothes?
Ouch!
The runaway Dodgers are running wild!
I guess that Axford doesn’t care that Dodger fans think he is a bum!
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WOW!
Axford was horrible his first game.
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He was good his second game.
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Today, he looked like the Closer! 98-99 with movement. Maybe the Dodgers are onto something?
While dozier has come in and contributed manny has been a little more than reddick 2.0. Roberts needs to move him in the lineup try something different go with a hot hand. Anything but status quo. He batted 3rd for Baltimore put him there. Ask carpenter if where you bat makes a difference. Maybe not to all but to some.
I made the same observation about the Dodgers offense at the end of the previous thread. Basically they were shutout over the last 7 innings. And no, it wasn’t just poor pitching that was responsible for yesterday’s loss. Anybody who knows anything about baseball, knows that a game can be lost as easily in the first inning as in the 9th inning. The inability to score over the final 7 innings is what laid the groundwork for yesterday’s loss. Yes, the Dodgers should have been able to hold onto a 2 run lead in the 9th. But it’s not a given; which is why closers get a save when they’re able to protect a 3 run lead in the 8th.
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I’m not going to criticize the removal of Ferguson, especially since he was replaced with Alexander. What I could’t understand was replacing Alexander with Chargois.
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Dozier just got a clutch 2-out hit to drive in a couple of runs. And Manny strikes out again. No doubt in my mind that he’s pressing. Yet I still have confidence in him, and hope that he ultimately justifies that confidence.
With Alexander and Ferguson the lefty part of the pen is good. Strip and Maeda strengthen the right side.
Dodgers’ offense laying another egg. 0 for 5 RISP.
Stripling and Maeda to the bullpen as Wood and Ryu are set to be activated.
https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/news/ross-stripling-kenta-maeda-move-to-bullpen/c-290008508
First of all, totally agree with Mark on the offense, or lack of. If you can only score two runs at Coors Field, you deserve to lose, especially with that lineup. I would think if the back end of the bullpen starts costing us games, and from what the Times said this morning, Kenley won’t be back until September, we may see a trade from FAZ(One that might sting a bit) to get a legit closer. We will see what happens the next week or so. Uncle Ned said in his book that building a bullpen is the most volatile thing a GM has to do, because they are so unpredictable. FAZ is finding that out right now. Wish they would have rode Caleb for one more inning, he was doing great.
AC has it right – the Braintrust doesn’t value relievers – they are inconsistent from year to year, so the story goes, so why spend $$ when you can always just get another one? As to the waiver wire comment, the Dodgers have gotten mileage out of that sort before (Blanton, Morrow, et al.) so that is the MO. This year they tried Tom (The Faucet) Kohler – but it didn’t work this time. So instead, we have Chargois, Goeddel, The Cup, The Axe, Venditte to go with guys from the system (El Gasolino, Ferguson), hurt guys (Fields, Cingrani, last years reclamation project), one guy they actually traded prospects for (Alexander) and the big man (Jansen).
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If that strikes you as a bad way to put together a bullpen, I agree.
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To me, the ‘Trust’s plan to get to the postseason was obvious from the deadline deals that they made and the ones they didn’t: They got 2 big bangers for the infield (Machado and Dozier) but only got the Axe and the Cup for the ‘pen. The plan is to bludgeon the opponent into submission. Who needs shut down relievers if you have an 8 run lead? But it hasn’t worked because the offense has been awful. Mark is right here – in a sense, you should score more than 2 runs at Coors with the bats the Dodgers have, but they’ve been doing this since the Break. Since the Break the Dodgers are .239/.321/.433/.754. Before the break and getting Machado and Dozier they were .244/.325/.433/.758. The numbers are down a little but similar, but you’d think that after adding Machado and Dozier they would go up and not down.
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There are several reasons for that. One is that Machado is .276/.357/.425/.782 since becoming a Dodgers vs..315/.387/.525/.963 with the O’s. Another is Roberts’ ongoing juggling the lineup and refusal to play the hottest guys. Another is that these are the Dog Days and separate the men from the boys and thus far, the Dodgers’ hitters look like the boys.
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Unless the bats wake up and soon, these Dodgers aren’t going anywhere. The starters have done yeoman’s work but the ‘pen is a frail reed. The bats will make the difference between contenders and pretenders.
Happiness is eliminating reCAPTCHA entirely.
I like Barnes behind the plate. He is so quiet there and calls a good game. His troubles this year is when he moves from behind the plate to beside the plate.
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I am ready for Puig to hit second and move Machado to #3 and Turner to #4.
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I like Roberts as Manager but if he is replaced eventually, I would like to see AJ Ellis as Manager. Make Ellis a coach next year.
The Dodgers were not going to get Iglesias. Lux and Uceta are not going anywhere. But they maybe could have had Jared Hughes also from the Reds. They maybe could have had Keone Kela. The Dodgers #9 prospect is Jeren Kendall. I make that trade. Heck I will make the trade of Jeren Kendall for Jose Leclerc. I would have made an Edwin Rios, Jeren Kendall, and Brock Stewart trade for Keone Kela and Jose Leclerc and a lottery pick. But when you do not value relief pitching it is hard to match up. Familia and his $3MM slides in nicely under the luxury tax threshold.
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Last night’s game was not Shaggy’s fault. He is not high leverage reliever and should never have been put in that situation. Baez does not get pulled when he gets in trouble, Jansen does not get pulled when he gets in trouble. So now what does Alexander think the next time he gets in trouble…If I put a runner on base then a waiver wire reliever is going to come in and shut it down??? Doc certainly did not do much for Alexander’s self confidence.
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I said it in the last thread, if you cannot count on Ferguson going 2 innings after throwing 28 pitches two days earlier, then you have not properly staffed the bullpen. In this case, it was totally overthinking/overmanaging. I do not really believe another 15 pitches was going to harm Caleb. That was just an excuse to answer a legit question as to why he was pulled. No, IMO the thinking was that it was time to bring in the closer, who was Alexander, and then he gave up on him as well.
You gotta’ love Rich Hill’s honesty. I missed this article in The Athletic earlier this week, s-o I’ll post a little of it:
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On June 24, the Dodgers outlasted the Mets over 11 innings, 8-7, in a game started by left-hander Rich Hill. They set a Citi Field record with seven home runs. After the game, before the team embarked on a cross-country flight home, Hill chided himself for his five-inning, four-run outing.
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“It was pretty sloppy,” Hill said that afternoon. “Obviously, I’m really disappointed about it. Just the execution of the pitches — that really is gonna bother me for a couple days.”
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For Hill, it was not an unusual comment. This is a man who this year called one of his spring-training starts “complete horseshit.” Those words, and his comments in New York, were honest characterizations of his current feelings. They were also products of Hill’s zealous belief that underperforming athletes should acknowledge their failures to their fanbase. Part of playing for a team is gathering trust from its fans.
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“Having played in bigger markets, all any fans ever wanted was your true, genuine opinion of yourself, not sugar-coating it,” Hill said recently. “If you go out there and pitch five or six innings and give up four or five runs, don’t tell everybody that you pitched well. They don’t want to hear that. The results are what fans care about.
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“They’re paying the good money to go out and watch a great performance. In turn, they want the honest opinion of a player, as opposed to beating around the bush.”
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Over two years in Los Angeles, Hill’s honesty has built him the benefit of the doubt. Now, he does not need it, for he is again excelling. After another winning effort in the Dodgers’ 4-2 victory over the Athletics on Tuesday at the Oakland Coliseum, Hill owns a 2.45 ERA over his last 55 innings. That span dates just past that New York start. His overall ERA is down to 3.62; it was 6.20 when he was activated from the disabled list June 19. Increasingly, he appears to be the Dodgers’ No. 2 starter.
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At 38, Hill has had a long, seesawing career. He has played for eight major-league teams, and owns an infinity ERA for one of them. He has been a free agent a dozen times. But two of his first three teams were the Cubs and the Red Sox, perhaps the two clubs with baseball’s most fervent fans. In those towns, he said, he learned the value of being direct.
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“You do well, you do well,” he said. “You stink, you stink. And I think that’s something that people absolutely respect, an honest opinion of yourself. They know you’re doing your best every time you go out there. That’s the benefit-of-the-doubt side of it: When it’s real, people know. When you’re truly saying, ‘Hey, I sucked today,’ that resonates with people. People can understand that they have bad days too.
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“I’m pretty out there and open about sucking.”
Yesterday was a great day. AZ lost. After our crap , we’re still tied for first. I’ll take it. I still think we’re netter than az so as long as we stay tied up or in first , I fee our talent will take over and we get to October again.
No NL team is great so we have as good a chance as anyone.
We’ll be fine.
I also laugh at “I want Utley as manager” comments. How on earth do we know how he manages a bullpen full of Roscups, Chagois, Baez, and the rest. How do we know how he’ll get Manny Machado to play like Manny Machado and not Alex Cora
The best of baseball is that after a frustrating lose we have the next day game. GO DODGERS. !! Lets go Chaigos, Baez and Roberts!!
I DON NOT LIKE MADDON AS MANAGER I PREFER THE TYPE OF PHILADELPHIA MANAGER H
the little batting is a disease without a doubt. But the bullpen is not a slogan but another disease and Roberts is another disease. FAZ has the plan to reinforce el.bullpen with Urias and Maeda I hope it’s on time. I think the FAZ has belittled AZ and COL and believes that it will take advantage of the division, but so be it. athletics got Family and Rodney without any big prospect and they are better than Chaigos and Baez
From a team perspective, Wood or Maeda need to stand tall and say “put me in the pen”
We are in the stretch run and it’s winning time. Deals and compensation adjustments for next year could reward team behavior. Maybe the both should youinto the pen and compete to see who’s most effective. The time to win is now.
I will light a candle in the church that Hill’s curveball will still break in the rarified air of Colorado.
The way things are going if we score 10 runs today we will lose 11-10.
Jansen will be back and sooner than expected. His issues aren’t as bad as they sound. It was the altitude that brought it into focus. And that’s too bad because he’d of been the most effective pitcher in that mess of a ballpark. At least Arizona isn’t stepping ahead! Knock on wood.
After last night’s debacle, I was ready to say Over and Out, but reading Mark’s column today took some sting away. Thank you for being (somewhat) the voice of reason amid all this.
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Maddon or Utley would be a great addition as manager.
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It’s sad how far Barnes’ star has fallen.
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2 runs at Coors…let’s get 10 today.