Getting information on player movement has always been rather irritating to me. Some trades and signings come as a complete surprise, and others do not. The internet has made instant notification a lot more prevalent than back in the day. There was no Yardbarker or MLBTR, with reports from baseball insiders linking teams to different players. I think one of the reasons so many Dodger fans were totally frustrated with the lack of action this offseason is simply because the rumor mill had them linked to every single premium free agent out there. And they signed none of them.
I was somewhat stunned and perturbed, I might add, when they simply let Cody Bellinger walk. I still think he is going to rebound and have a monster season. Maybe the change will be a huge benefit for him. I found out about it on Twitter. A mere seconds after it was announced. When I first started following baseball, I would have had to read it in the papers the next day. With that in mind, I went on baseball reference back to the 1958 Dodgers page. I wanted to see just how much the construction of a baseball team has changed since then.
Of course, when the Dodgers initially moved to Los Angeles, they were heavily reliant on scouting. There was no draft. So, the team was built on amateur free-agent signings and trades. I also thought it would be interesting to see which players had been with the Dodgers only to be sent elsewhere. For example, how many here knew that Maury Wills, who was signed by the Dodgers back in 1951 when he was 18, was traded away once and lost in the draft before becoming their SS in 1959?
All true. On October 13th, 1958, Maury was sent to the Detroit Tigers on a conditional deal. Usually meaning, they will agree to compensation later. On April 2nd, 1959, he was returned to LA on a conditional deal. At least, that is what the transactions page says. He had been drafted by the Reds from the Dodgers in December of 1956. He was returned in what was called an unknown transaction before the start of the 1958 season. Unless you have read the transactions page, you would never know that because I have never seen it in his bio.
Anyway, I went back and looked to see which players were Dodgers for albeit a brief time and then were moved. Some trades I found very interesting. How many of you remember Chico Fernandez? Chico had an unspectacular career. He was a good glove, weak bat SS who came up to the majors with Brooklyn in 1956. Before the 1957 season, he was traded to the Phillies for five players and $75,000 dollars. One of the players, Elmer Valo, was a 37-year-old veteran. Three others would make it to the big leagues at one time or another. Tim Harkness, Ron Negray, and Ben Foster. The Phils kept Chico for three seasons before dealing him to the Tigers. Five players for a journeyman shortstop. Today it takes a superstar to net that kind of return. Chico played in the majors for eight years.
In December of 1958, the Dodgers traded another shortstop to the Phillies and got three players back. Sparky Anderson went to Philadelphia for Johnny Klippstein, Rip Repulski, and Art Fowler. Choo Choo Coleman was a Dodger for a short time. He later would be one of the Mets’ picks in the expansion draft. Back in those days, most of the major moves were made at the winter meetings. The deadline was in June. Not nearly as many trades were made back then since only two teams would eventually meet in the World Series. Vying for a playoff spot was not an option. So, blockbuster deals at the deadline were rare.
On June 15th, 1959, the Dodgers swung a deal that would have an impact on their Championship run. They traded third baseman Dick Gray to the Cardinals for Lloyd Merritt and Chuck Essegian. Essegian would hit two homers in the Dodgers’ win over the White Sox in the World Series. Also, there were not as many deals just before the September 1 cut-off for players to be eligible for the postseason back then. Another 1959 trade of interest happened in October when they sent first baseman Jim Gentile to the Orioles for two players and 50 grand. Neither player would ever suit up for LA, but Gentile played four years with the O’s and slugged 124 homers. At the time, though, LA was loaded with first basemen. Hodges, Larker, Bilko. Fairly, and Howard had just signed, and they both played 1st at one time or another.
It was very fortuitous that Wills was returned to them at the beginning of the 1959 season. Zimmer got off to an absolutely horrible start, and Pee Wee retired after 1958. By July, Wills was the starting SS and would remain as such through the 1966 season. Not sure how many of you remember Joe Altobelli. In April of 1960, they traded for Altobelli, a first baseman-outfielder. He never played a game for LA, but he did go on to manage for 5 1/2 years in the bigs. Won a division title with the Giants in 1979.
A trade I really disliked happened in May of 1961. They sent Charlie Smith and Don Demeter to the Phillies for Turk Farrell and Joe Koppe. Koppe never played a game for the Dodgers, but he had a nice career with the Angels. He was not much of a hitter, but he was a solid gloveman. They also traded in 1961 for former Giant Daryl Spencer. Bobby Lillis and Carl Warwick went to St. Louis in that deal.
Probably the most significant thing that happened after the 1961 season was baseball expansion. Two teams were added in each league. The Dodgers lost six players in the draft, Hodges and Craig, to the Mets. Farrell, Larker, Jim Golden, and Bob Aspromonte to the Houston Colt-45’s. I still like that name better than Astros. In a trade that I could not understand at all late in 1961, they sent starting second baseman Charlie Neal, pitcher Willard Hunter and 100 thousand dollars to the Mets for OF Lee Walls. Walls had hit .304 with 24 homers in 1958, but he was never close to that again. He played three seasons in LA, was used mostly as a PH, and wasn’t really that good at it.
GM Buzzie Bavasi was slowly unloading the players who had been with the team in Brooklyn. By 1963, there were only a couple left. The only position players were Roseboro and Gilliam. Koufax and Drysdale, Podres and Roebuck on the pitching side. That was it. Bavasi also, almost every year, picked up some veteran who was past his prime to fill part-time roles. Guys like Marv Breeding, Moose Skowron, and Andy Carey. He made a trade in December of 1963 that would impact the Dodgers for 12 years when he traded Dick Scott to the Cubs for Cuno Barragan and Jim Brewer.
The other way you would find out about moves back then was The Sporting News. Now local TV broadcasts would cover the Dodgers and the Angels. But if something happened on another team, you rarely heard about it unless it was a blockbuster trade. Like when Frank Robinson went from the Reds to the Orioles. That was big news. I read the Sporting News every week. One of my teachers, who was in the Red Sox system when he was young, would pass it on to me each week.
Today, you have so much more information. It is easy to see how your favorite team is being put together. MLB.TV, ESPN, and almost every major city has its own local sports channel. In LA, it is Sportsnet LA that carries the Dodger games. Here in Colorado, we have Altitude Sports. Rockies, Nuggets, and Avalanche broadcast games there. The Broncos have some sort of deal with NBC when they are not on the national broadcast. Today you can see the Dodgers every night if you have the right service. Back in the beginning, we got 11 games a year. Only the road games from SF. And the occasional game of the week on NBC with Curt Gowdy.
But deep down inside, I miss those days perusing the transactions page. It brings back a much simpler way of life.
Saw a tweet on Twitter. Freddie Freeman is really digging in and becoming a huge supporter in the community. He and his family just donated 5 grand to the Salvation Army. He is a class guy.
Hopefully, he takes a bigger leadership role too.
For sure. I think this being his second year, he will.
Interesting read Bear. Thanks
Freeman needs to stay in the lineup through October and come up with big hits, especially WRISP. This team will need both his leadership and his production.
Friedman speaks out on Bauer. Anyone read it? I’m interested in opinions.
I have to say, I think AF, ownership and management actually handled the Bauer fiasco from the beginning about as good as they could have. The Dodgers basically just tried to stay out of it and not add any more fuel to the fire. It upset the Dylans and the Mollys and the Noslers on the one hand for whom virtue signaling is everything, and perhaps Mark and B&P on the other, but they did an exceptional job of not making the case more of a distraction than it already was. They didn’t make any announcement that would give any more oxygen to the brouhaha. Have you noticed we haven’t been talking about Bauer here at all? We’re talking baseball and next season. That’s a good thing.
I appreciate, too, that they waited to talk to Bauer and weigh all the pros and cons until the deadline before making a decision.
I agree that the Dodgers did the best they could. MLB did a poor job, and it will be interesting if there he tries to prove collusion or some other things. I don’t think we have heard the last of this.
From the Athletic:
Keith Law ranks the MLB Farm Systems.
#1 is your LA Dodgers:
“I know, it’s boring to say the Dodgers have the best farm system, and kind of hard to believe given all the players they’ve graduated or traded away in the past few years, but they are probably the best drafting organization given where they pick, they find talent on the international front, and players who come into their system get better at an alarmingly high rate. They have outstanding depth in up-the-middle position players and hard-throwing pitchers who still project as starters. They placed eight players on my top 100, most of any team, and I’m fairly sure they would have had the most players if I’d gone another 25 or 50 or 100 names. Guys like River Ryan and Josue De Paula are fighting to get into the Dodgers’ top 10 when they’d be top 5 in some organizations. Michael Grove might be in their rotation this year, or fill the role vacated by Mitch White (whom the Dodgers traded for, of course, a really good pitching prospect who might not crack their top 15), and he’s not in their top 10. They are among the best organizations in baseball at helping hitters execute swing changes. They’re also willing to take risks, like moving a first-round pick from first base to second base — not a common position switch — because they believe in their process, and also have the capacity to absorb the hit if it doesn’t work out. Scouts are already questioning how the Dodgers got Dalton Rushing (No. 62 on my list) with a second-round pick, No. 41 overall, in the 2022 draft. They just don’t understand. It’s Dodgers Devil Magic.
Just read that.
Is Gavin Stone really 175 pounds?
Tim Lincecum body
Pedro Martinez was 5-11 and 155 as a rookie.
He used to be but I remember reading awhile back that he has gained weight. He could be 195 now.
Did you see this quote from Gomes?
“I think Muncy is a great athlete, personally. He always graded out well,” Gomes said. “Vargas is our second- or third-fastest guy on the team, which is probably not appreciated at all. So he’s also a good athlete. It’s more about getting him reps and getting his feel at second base. I think a combination of it all is really strong.”
Are the Dodgers a slow team now that Bellinger and Trea are gone? Are they faster now that Justin is gone?
I have always felt that Vargas had above-average speed.
Outman is very fast – so are Lux, Betts, and Will Smith, and Freddie is an excellent baserunner.
Will Smith is “very fast”? Maybe fast for a catcher, but don’t get carried away here, Mark.
Based on numbers for sprint speed to first base (2022), Smith is tied for 306th place on the list.
Current players who played here last year and who are faster are Lux, CT3, Muncy and Betts. Muncy is actually very slightly faster than Mookie to first base. Freddie is just a split second slower than Will.
I didn’t check speed going first to third. And, of course, speed has no direct correlation to base running ability, something at which Freddie excels.
I should have probably phrased it: “Will Smith is a very good baserunner like Freddie Freeman.” He may not be fast, but he gets around the bases pretty dang fast!
As I recall it, Gomes was quoted as saying Vargas was “second or third fastest” on the team–but that seems a stretch since, as Gomes also noted, Vargas doesn’t get credit for being fast…. ??? …as if there is no reason for that.
From what I read, Vargas is now in much better shape than he was a couple years ago–that he’s leaner and stronger and more athletic. I guess the old perception was that he might be a stocky, not-fast guy who could really hit, like Bill Madlock… Not that he was at risk of becoming Pablo Sandoval.
Anyway, Vargas’s chances for success depend on his bat, not his legs.
Well, Lux is the fastest.
I think Outman would be 2nd fastest.
Betts can’t be any worse than 3rd, so I think Brandon was engaging in a little hyperbole.
“Smith is tied for 306th place on the list.“
So am I.
Thanks Bear
Games on tv were indeed few and far between. That made the World Series even more special.
Sporting News was great and I always looked forward to the Baseball magazines that would come out before spring training. Those magazines are going the way of the buggy whip because they are old news by the time they hit the newsstands.
Thanks Bob. I used to get Street and Smith’s the minute it came out. It is out of business now. But it was a great read. I think there are only 3 main ones that still get printed, Athlon, Sporting News, and Linsky’s. There is also that baseball fantasy book that is made for fantasy league players. I also used to buy Who’s Who in Baseball. Another publication that went out of business a couple of years ago. I really miss getting the Dodger media guides. Just a total fountain of information. You could go on there and track every transaction they had ever made.
After hearing that about Stone had to go check out for myself and watched some video of him. He does kinda remind me of ole Timmy Tim. Can’t wait to see these youngins in the show
Spring Training who has been to spring training. I know I have in Arizona. There’s always some rookie that stands out. A player that nobody knew of and makes a squad the next year. Usually some kid from double A that is just killing it. Is there any kid in A ball or AA ball that could be like that for the Dodgers. A player where they just have to keep him in the Big Leagues. Take the Indians for instance there centerfielder the year before was in AA ball didn’t even play AAA ball. Now he is starting in the outfield for the Guardians.
I used to go to Spring Training every year in Vero Beach and Camelback Ranch, but that was when I had a “small business.” It’s hard for me to get away now, and I am old, so there is that!
Good move getting Bob Geren out of the dugout as the bench coach. We needed some younger blood in Danny Lehmann 37 with a fresh approach in helping Doc manage game situations especially in the playoffs.
Do you think Geren was not a valuable assistant to Doc? Supposedly he is a baseball genius, that’s what I’ve heard.
In that dugout I wonder who’s advice Doc listens to and takes.
The buck stops with the manager, and if Doc follows through with someone’s advice and it back fires Doc can’t say,
“ he told me I should do it “. I’ve never heard that from Doc. His line is, “I really liked so and so in that situation”.
The Shredder hasn’t been all that high on so and so.
Since Geren has been there no one has won more games. Not even close.
Maybe he ( Geren ) will be of more value to the organization at his new position than as a bench coach. From all I’ve heard of him is he is very sound and skilled.
The Dodgers are loyal to their loyal personnel but doubt they are moving him to another position just so he has a job. Got to think they believe in his value.
That’s more of a question than a statement.
Bradley
From yesterday, I asked you to give me a SS name that is better than Lux offensively/hitting. You provided 4 names, but one is an outfielder and that is Rosario. I’m assuming you would move Taylor to SS and insert Rosario in LF. So you’re still replacing Lux not Taylor as a starter, or if it’s Taylor you’re replacing your argument becomes worse.. So I’ll show the career BA and OPS for Lux using the last 2 years averaged. Because Lux’s first 2 years were small samples as he was dipping his feet in MLB. Then I’ll show the career BA and OPS of the 4 guys you provided.
Lux’s career BA/OPS .260/.720 averaged the last 2 years.
Baez’s career .260/.766
Rosario’s career .270/.767
Anderson’s career .288/.759
Adames career .255/.771
As you can see Baez has the same career BA as Lux. Rosario is .010 better. Both have better career OPS’s than Lux by 046/.047, but Lux is still growing in MLB and Baez and Rosario are not. So I’ll compare Lux’s numbers last year (.276/.745) to Baez and Rosario’s career numbers. There’s some give and take between BA and OPS, but it’s about the same.
As for Anderson. He has a better career BA and OPS than Lux by .028 and .039. But if you compare Anderson’s career numbers to Lux’s numbers last year since Lux is still growing in MLB and Anderson is not. Lux comes up short .012 in BA and .014 in OPS. Anderson is better, but not by much.
As for Adames. Him and Lux are still growing in MLB. So comparing career vs career straight up is a fair comparison. They have about the same career BA and Adames beats Lux by .059 in career OPS.
So I think the best argument for a trade is for Adames. Both him and Lux are still growing in MLB, and Adames beats Lux in OPS. But is there a big enough difference in career numbers to justify trading for Adames and benching Lux? Or if you move Lux to 2B and insert Adames at SS, you will be either benching Vargas or sending him to AAA, since AF has said Vargas is going to be at 2B. On top of that you will be trading a top prospect, because the Brewers will demand it, if they decide to trade Adames.
Personally, I wouldn’t trade for any of the 4 names you provided. Not enough gain for the price it would take.
Now if you want to include defense too, I’m not going to touch that subject because I believe defense stats are not accurate because too many variables are involved.
Also I think It would be better to trade for an outfielder that is clearly better than Taylor and Rosario is not. There’s more outfielders better than Taylor than there is SS better than Lux, offense/hitting. Also there is the option of benching or sending Vargas or Outman back to AAA. It’s better to send them back to AAA than benching them. But you would be blocking a top prospect.
Eric, Rosario has played exactly 25 games in the outfield in his career. He has played 648 at SS. That is per his baseball reference page. His fielding pct as an outfielder is pretty bad, .940 He has played 18 games in center, made 2 errors there, and 7 as a left fielder. His fielding pct as a SS is .972. That works out to 63 errors in 2271 chances. So calling him an outfielder is incorrect.
Huh Baseball Reference has him listed as never playing SS in his career. One of our sources is wrong then.
Eric, I think Bradley was referring to the Indians’ shortstop Ahmed Rosario while you’re talking about the Braves outfielder Eddie Rosario.
That is who Bradley is talking about Ahmed.
Thanks Blue I was. The Guardians shortstop not the outfielder that I think is with the Braves.
Oh shit my fault.
Um that’s all great research but all four guys I mentioned play shortstop and can make the throw to first. With Lux poor Freddie is going to have nightmare’s over there. That’s why I cringe at Lux playing shortstop. Just keep him at second base. And get a legit shortstop that can field and hit above 260. Isn’t that Rojas???? But great research Eric.
Bradley, to be very honest and fair, Lux has played exactly 68 games as a SS at the major league level. His fielding pct is barely below what it is at second base. He has not had enough chances at the position to make a decision of whether or not he can play the position at the MLB level. Granted, his minor league stats as a SS are not all that good. But he has made some horrific throws from second also. Give the guy at least spring training to prove or disprove he can play there. If needed, then he can slide back to second. Right now, the plan is for Vargas to play second and Muncy at third, they have Rojas as the backup plan. If they really feel they need to move Lux off of short, the deadline will be the time they do it. Freidman stated in an interview that they are not going to trade salary, IE: Taylor or Treinen, to get under the CBT.
Frankly, I do not believe him! 😉
I think they will if they can.. maybe they can’t!
I am no fan of Sports Radio, but there used to be this guy out of San Diego whose entire radio show was predicated on the transaction news wire.
Almost every break he would have breaking news about some random transaction or another.
I have not listened to sports radio since I moved from Arizona. They used to have an afternoon talk show I liked. One of the guys was from NY and I used to rag on him and the Yankees all the time. He referred me to the body man who fixed my Nissan truck after it was hit.
I am sure Vargas could play Leftfield ever day and Lux at second base and Muncy third base so shortstop would be the opening spot for a big trade. I didn’t think Vargas was a second baseman did anybody ever see a OKC game did he play second base. All I see is people saying third base rookie of the year possible never heard second base .. and Muncy has to be in the lineup almost everyday so are you saying every day Freeman Vargas Lux and Betts Muncy play. With Roberts naw I never would see him do that. Plus Lux gets hurt almost every year neck back throws he makes and then he is on the roster but then wouldn’t play. Now he is going to be the every day shortstop like Tre Turner. Naw I don’t see that. I see Taylor and Lux trading shortstop duties and I forgot we still have Rojas. There is some days they could have Vargas thrid Rojas SS Lux 2b and Freeman 1b and Muncy DH on Martinez off days. Like everyone says it’s all how spring training goes if he can’t pay shortstop then they will get somebody.
He has been working out with the infield coach at Dodger Stadium playing second base. He has the athleticism to do it. He, Trayce Thompson, and Jason Heyward have been working out there almost every day.
Yes I heard that to. So I thought he was working in the outfield with Thompson Heyward at Dodgers Stadium. Yes, he would move faster then Muncy at second base. I agree. I hope Muncy is back this year. Because if he’s not that will be bad luck for the Dodgers. If he faulters at third baseman and power wise. He could hit 30 and Freeman Martinez and Smith are a murders row and if you throw in Outman that be six homerun batters that could hit 25 homers each in a row. So runs will be scored.
Muncy should be fine. His injury is way behind him now and he reports he is feeling very good. I would give Mad Max 25 HRs at the bare minimum. I think he is a lock to hit 30 plus. Vargas initially was working out in the outfield, but somewhere along the way, they shifted gears. Muncy is a decent defender at third, He made some very good plays over there last season.
Muncy will be fine at 3B, and I predict 2023 will be his career year.