Understanding the Luxury Tax 

Posted By on January 14, 2023

The optimist sees bubbles and thinks of champagne. The pessimist thinks Alka-Seltzer.

The fact of the matter is that everyone thinks the Dodgers are the richest organization in baseball and should sign an All-Star at every position because that is the recipe for a World Championship. If you believe that, you are either naive or very dumb… or both.

First off, what is the Luxury Tax? Actually, it’s called the Competitive Balance Tax. It is just called the “Luxury Tax” because that is what it is called… duh. Each year, clubs that exceed a predetermined payroll threshold are subject to a Competitive Balance Tax – Those who carry payrolls above that threshold are taxed on each dollar above the threshold, with the tax rate increase based on the number of consecutive years a club has exceeded the threshold. Here it is Verbatim from MLB itself:

A team’s Competitive Balance Tax figure is determined using the average annual value of each player’s contract on the 40-man roster, plus any additional player benefits. Every team’s final CBT figure is calculated at the end of each season. (Note: If a player signs a contract extension that doesn’t kick in until a later season, his AAV for the purposes of the CBT doesn’t change until the new deal begins.)

The following thresholds were put in place per the 2022-26 collective bargaining agreement:

2022: $230 million

2023: $233 million

2024: $237 million

2025: $241 million

2026: $244 million

A club that exceeds the Competitive Balance Tax threshold is subject to an increasing tax rate depending on how many consecutive years it has done so.

First year: 20 percent tax on all overages

Second consecutive year: 30 percent

Third consecutive year or more: 50 percent

If a club dips below the luxury tax threshold for a season, the penalty level is reset. So, a club that exceeds the threshold for two straight seasons but then drops below that level would be back at 20 percent the next time it exceeds the threshold.

There’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more.

$20 million to $40 million: 12 percent surcharge

$40 million to $60 million: 42.5 percent surcharge for first year; 45 percent for each consecutive year after that

$60 million or more: 60 percent surcharge

Clubs that are $40 million or more above the threshold shall have their highest selection in the next Rule 4 Draft moved back 10 places unless the pick falls in the top six. In that case, the team will have its second-highest selection moved back 10 places instead.

In simple terms, if the Dodgers are over the CBT in 2023, they will be in the highest tax category in 2024, and if they want to sign an Ohtani, they will have to pay out the a$$. If they are $40 million over the CBT, then they also lose draft positions. Of course, Dodgers president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman is adamant there is no mandate to stay under the tax threshold from ownership, but also noted, “there are benefits to doing it.”

Some of you weigh on every word that comes out of Andrew Friedman’s mouth, but smart fans will weigh every word that comes out of his mouth, realizing that he is under no obligation to tell you what he is going to do… if fact, he just might mislead you.

The penalties for going over three straight years or longer would be a 50% tax on every dollar spent over the $233 million threshold.

In addition, there’s also a surcharge threshold for clubs that exceed the base threshold by $20 million or more, ranging from a 12% surcharge up to 60%, depending on how far over the club is. Teams that are $40 million or more above the threshold also have their highest selection in the next MLB Draft moved back ten places under certain terms.

I find it interesting that the last time the Dodgers were under the threshold was when they had a luxury tax number of $178 million during the 2020 season. Hmm… that was also the last time they won the World Series. See any connection between spending and winning? No, it is just the opposite! The tax threshold in the 2020 season was set at $208 million. They also dipped under it in 2018 after paying a record penalty in 2017 and going over the threshold every season for five years since 2013.

Here’s another quote from Andrew Friedman:

“… the No. 1 thing for Mark Walter and our ownership group is to do everything we can to go out and win a World Series. Sometimes as part of the transition that happens on rosters over a three-, five-year period, young players get integrated onto the roster, by definition payrolls come down some when that happens, depending on how many.

We have a number of really talented Minor League players right now at the upper levels, and part of our focus this offseason will be how many to look to integrate early in the year, and how many of them will kind of serve as depth throughout the year, get experience and then be part of the core going forward.”

Miguel Vargas, Michael Busch, James Outman, Bobby Miller, Ryan Pepiot, and Gavin Stone are all going to be given an opportunity this season. That is the Dodgers’ plan this year.

However, all they need to do is get into the playoffs, and anything can happen. Spending on big-name players doesn’t guarantee anything, as we have seen so often, and the Houston Astros just won the World Series by promoting their own young players into essential roles.

The Dodgers may still make a significant move if the right one presents itself, but they aren’t going to pass the luxury tax threshold just for anyone, so depending upon what happens early in the season, I would not expect a big move right now. In fact, the deeper into the offseason it gets, the odds increase that they will stay below the threshold. Here’s the bottom line: According to SI:

“Los Angeles paid tax each season from 2013-17 and its total bill through last year reached $182 million since the luxury tax began in 2003. That’s second only to the Yankees’ $348 million bill.If the Dodgers owe tax for 2023, they would pay 50% above next year’s first threshold of $233 million, 62% above $253 million, 95% above $273 million and 110% above $293 million.”

That is not Monopoly money, people.  Those are real dollars. Mark Walter has a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders and partners in Guggenheim Partners, and money spent because “you just can” is like slapping your shareholders. In fact, Todd Boehly (one of the partners) has been openly vocal about going over the salary cap. BTW, Boehly may also be purchasing another team:

However, that is a different story… for another day. Mark Walter will authorize going over the CBT only if the Dodgers falter early in the season. They have one of the finest farm systems in baseball and maybe the best player development machine ever! There are still lots of free agents and trades to be had, but I think the Dodgers will stand pat until the middle of the season. If they are stumbling, then Friedman may pull the plug and abandon any possibility of staying under the threshold, but as it stands, the youngsters have to be given a chance.

Back in November, Stan Kasten gave a pretty clear indication that the Dodgers were going to rely on the Farm in an article in The LA Times:

"Having watched the best regular-season team in Dodgers history implode after just four nights in the playoffs, it appears that baseball’s biggest spenders might be ready to slightly change course.

Miguel Vargas? He had a .915 on-base-plus-slugging percentage at triple A this year.

Michael Busch? He slugged 32 homers with 108 RBIs at the top two minor league levels.

Bobby Miller? He struck out 12 batters per nine innings at the same two minor league levels.
Those three players form the foundation of the Dodgers’ future and, if you listen to Dodgers president and chief executive Stan Kasten, that future could be now.

“Earlier in the last decade, we had a wave of young guys who were going to be real contributors,” Kasten told the Los Angeles Times this past week. “We think we are now on the precipice of the next wave of young guys. We need to make room to allow that to happen.”
Kasten emphasized that the team would spend whatever it deemed necessary to improve but noted that this offseason could be a little different.

“If money is what is needed, we’ll certainly do that, as we’ve shown time and time again,” he said. “[But] if we think we have kids who need time to play up here, I’m sure we’ll do that as well.”
Any other Dodgers winter, those words might be cause for alarm. But, hey, in the wake of the recent lifeless implosion of the Dodgers’ veteran All-Stars — their ninth postseason failure during a stretch of 10 years of regular-season excellence — why not mix in a few energetic newbies?

During a 30-minute interview reflecting on the season, Kasten emphasized he was happy with the organizational direction and its leadership despite the team coming under the most critical public scrutiny since Kasten’s group took ownership a decade ago.

But he acknowledged that the Dodgers will do whatever it takes to change the ending.

“We have succeeded in too many ways on too many fronts for me to think of this as any kind of failure,” he said, later adding, “Just in the last eight years, five LCSs and three World Series, I don’t think those are bad numbers. ... We won one World Series, we lost another one in Game 7, I don’t think those are symbols of a fatally flawed program. I just don’t agree with that.”

The pitching is simply outstanding, and if healthy, they may have a surplus to trade. If an injury-free Max Muncy reverts back to his normal Dodger year (.890 OPS/.35 HR), Freddie Freeman and Mookie Betts do what they do, and Gavin Lux and Will Smith keep up their growth, and JDM just does what he did last year (I think he will actually have a monster year) and if one rookie shines, there is no reason to do anything. Lux, Betts, Freeman, Muncy, Smith, Martinez, and potentially Vargas are all very good to great players. The Astros won with a Rookie at SS, who hit .245 (and without much in CF). Rojas will be better than that! BTW, Rojas is going to play SS no matter how many mental gymnastics you engage in. Of course, that is also dependent upon health.

There are lots of opportunities and lots of talented players. There are dollar store purchases and rehab projects, but the main thing is that there are plenty of rookies who are hungry and ready to shep up and show out. Some will. Some won’t. Men invented statistics, analytics, and sabermetrics as a tool, but God gave you eyes. I would advise you to use them. Watch and learn!

If you think that is not a Championship Caliber team, all I am going to say is…

This article has 181 Comments

  1. Great information Mark. I never really knew how the penalties worked out, but this explains it. I think the team will be fine. I think you put them position to position, they match up well with San Diego, more depth than the other three teams in the division, Freeman, Betts and Smith are clearly the class of the division at their positions. Soto needs a bounce back season to even compete with Betts in right. SD brought in Nelson Cruz to DH, but Martinez will be better. Freeman is the class of the division at first. Dodgers’ rotation is deeper than SD. SD’s bullpen has a slight edge. Smith is growing every year and is solid behind the plate too. He also calls a good game. As for the rest of the positions, we have little clue who will be where come opening day. Tatis is not available for the Padres for the first 20 games, and then he will no longer be the SS. That will belong to Bogaerts. Rumor is he is moving to center field. I wanted to expound on something I was unable to address in the last stream and it concerns defense.

    There are some who post on this site that do not place much emphasis on defense. That is their opinion and that is fine. What I wanted to address is the fact that while fans might not see the value in defense, the Dodgers front office obviously does. One of the reasons they let Hanley Ramirez walk, his clubhouse cancer label notwithstanding, was simply because he was not an elite defender. His offense was great, but his glove was porous. For several seasons the team was not very good defensively and they wanted to change that. Since AF arrived, they have usually made trades out of need. If AF saw what he perceived as a weakness, he would trade to bolster that position. Chris Taylor was one of those guys, good glove, weak stick. But he blossomed after his initial season with the Dodgers. But, had he not learned to play the outfield, and stayed a SS only, he would not be a Dodger today. He and Kike picked up the team when multiple players went down.

    Defense might not be your cup of tea, but it certainly matters when it comes to player trades and signings.

    1. If I see someone SUCK defensively I’ll call for their head on a platter. Otherwise minor details don’t matter to me. So I do care about defense. That’s just me.

      1. Plus defense stats are fallible, unreliable and flat out bad. Therefore I wouldn’t sacrifice offense for supposively defense according to defense stats. And it’s amazing to me that people believe defense stats. I use the eye test and it’s the only place I do and this is coming from a stathead.

        1. That is your opinion Eric, and you have every right to think that way. I am just telling you that the powers that be look at it differently. They value defensive numbers. Rojas had 15 defensive runs saved at SS last year. To the saber geeks, that is a huge number. He also had 2 defensive runs saved at 1st base. So dislike it all you will, the people who make the decisions on who to trade for or sign value defense. Freidman and the Dodger front office value defense and versatility.

          1. You’re talking about other people not me. I’m just telling you it’s not reliable. And I like versatility.

          2. Friedman and the front office can do what they want to do, but they missed their target last year offensively with Hanser Alberto and I didn’t. They got Rojas for the same reason they got Alberto, for versatility.

            Versatility and defense stats are not the same. You can’t tell me that Aberto and Taylor are in the upper excellence in defense stats (unreliable) at multiple positions or any position at all.

          3. AF got Alberto for one reason, and it was not for defense. Hanser was not known for his glove. They got him to destroy LHP. He failed to deliver. He was credible, hitting .279 Aganst LHP, but in his career he was .323 against lefties. HE wasn’t a flop – he just did not excel as in the past, but he was a damn good teammate.

          4. And this all started because according to Mark and a few others Rojas is going to be a starter dictated by defense stats (unreliable). Those same stats that were thrown at me that I ignored. And according to Mark, Rojas puts the ball in play. Well so does Lux with a better BA and OBP.

          5. Eric, maybe I need to define what putting the ball in play means: It means that you actually hit the ball – in the air or on the ground. In 3,082 PAs in MLB, Miguel Rojas has struck out 387 times. In 1,003 PAs, Gavin Lux has struck out 221 times. That means that Gavin Lux strikes out once every 4.5 PAs, while Miguel Rojas strikes out once every 8.0 PAs. Lux is a better hitter, walks more, and has a lot more power, but he puts the ball in play about half of what Rojas does. When you put the ball in play, runners can move up and rallies can continue. You don’t want a team full of Rojas’, but SS is arguably the most important defensive position in baseball and having an ELITE defender there who can hit 9th and move batters is not only sustainable but very logical.

            The Astros who the World Series last year with an ELITE Defensive Catcher who hit .185. They had 1B who hit .242 with 8 HR but is a good fielder. They had a rookie shortstop who hit .253 and a Rookie CFer who hit .245 but played good defense. They did not strike out as much. Their BAs were not the equal of the Dodgers, ut they moved runners, protected leads and scored runs. Pencil in Miguel Vargas who also does not strike out much and moves runners and it makes a huge difference in scoring… consistently. I think the Dodgers will be a better team with Rojas at SS and furthermore, I do not think Lux can play SS at a high level. In fact, it would not surprise me if Lux gets very few reps at SS. If he gets the YIPS it affects his hitting. It gets into his head and I do not want that version of Gavin Lux… I want an Offensive Catalyst and Gavin can be that!

          6. Alberto was signed because he was very effective against left-handed pitching prior to last year. His versatility was a plus in AF’s eyes. By the way, played 5 games at short and did not make an error. Rojas is versatile. Bue he also is an elite fielding SS. He made only 7 errors in 531 chances. Trea Turner on the other hand, made 16 errors in 524 chances. Rojas is a much better defender than Turner. Another plus is that Rojas does not strikeout much. He makes contact and puts the ball in play. Turner struck out 111 times. I understand that you rate players differently. That is fine for you, all I am saying is, the Dodgers in their evaluation process do consider all the defensive metrics. Pooh pooh it all you want. It is the way they do things and will keep doing them as long as the present leadership is in place. No, you are right, I am not talking about you. But since you have no say in the decision-making process, what you think does not matter to the Dodgers. If you feel your way is better, perhaps you should drop a line to Freidman and tell him what he is doing wrong. Rojas’s defensive stats are quite reliable. If you really wanted someone’s head on a platter, why did I not hear you calling for Turner’s. His error in game 2 of the playoffs cost them that game.

          7. Wrong! Rojas has had many years of negative DRS at the position and then comes up with a +15 out of nowhere! At age 33 no less. There is nothing that you can determine from a stat that varies so wildly from year to year.

            If you believe Rojas will be the everyday SS, I’ve got another rock of crack I’d like to sell you.

          8. You have not heard me chant about DRS, because it (like most defensive stats) is highly subjective and luck is greatly involved. Mostly, I use the eye test with consideration of the stats. However, I cannot help but look at Miguel Rojas’ fielding percentage as a SS vs. Gavin Lux as a SS at all levels – MiLB and MLB:

            Rojas – .972 (over 17 seasons) 203 Errors in 13,000 innings
            Lux – .942 (over 6 seasons) 81 Errors in 3,000 innings

            Not only is Rojas dramatically better but he is vastly more experienced.

            Quit smoking your own product! After watching Gavin Lux in the minors and majors, I cannot believe fans think he can play SS. I am incredulous!

          11. Bear

            “But since you have no say in the decision-making process, what you think does not matter to the Dodgers.”

            Think about what you said there.

            My response to that is then let’s shut this website down and go home.

            You always come back at me with that response. And I know I have no say in the decision-making process.

          12. If you didn’t understand what I said, you’re basicaly saying since none of us have a say in the decision making process then we should shut up.

        2. Too much Fantasy Baseball. Defense Matter… BIG TIME!

          A great defensive play at a time when the team is trying to come back can tear out their heart.

          That’s why I believe Rojas will be the Dodgers SS.

          1. I think Rojas will play when they want him to play. If Lux struggles, Rojas is going to start period. He is a much better SS than Taylor. He has a career .980 fielding pct as a SS, Taylors is .960. Lux is at .968 in his limited time there. Trea Turner checks in at .968. Rojas has made 10 or more errors in a season 3 times. 10 once and 11 twice. Turner had 16 last season alone, Rojas is heads and tails above all of them. Just check his stats on baseball reference.

          2. If Rojas is healthy, I do not think the Dodgers will even give Lux a chance at SS. My opinion! It will be Rojas and Taylor as his backup.

          3. “Too much Fantasy Baseball. Defense Matter… BIG TIME!

            A great defensive play at a time when the team is trying to come back can tear out their heart.”

            You win games with offense and pitching. the Dodgers getting knocked out 3 months ago because the offense sucked should tell you everything.

            How many times does defense blow the game vs offense and/or pitching.

          4. I also believe MRojas will be our SS. Being from Puerto Rico, I have seen Miguel a lot. He has deceptive quickness, sure hands and a strong arm. He covers a lot of ground. He also is a gamer and a great teammate. All of that qualities are perceived and solidify the eye Test. But the main reason for me is shifting MMuncy out of 2B. Je, maybe you see for a couple of games how awful will be Lux/SS & Max/2B combination and will surface how important defense is.

  2. The Astros’ SS Pena won games with his glove. I remember reading that he had the highest Defensive Runs Saved stat in league–and Rojas was close behind.
    The “kids play” roster would have Lux at SS–and it could possibly have Vargas at 3B, Outman in CF and Busch in LF. Or maybe Busch plays 2B and Vargas is in LF, with Muncy shifting from 2B to 3B.
    If the objective is to give all these guys some of that runway, Trayce could be the 4th outfielder and a late-inning defensive replacement. (I still like a Trayce/Vargas platoon, but Vargas needs the ABs.)
    It’s puzzling to me that Busch, a multisport star in high school, still doesn’t seem to have a defined position. Second base seems most likely.

    1. Rojas had a total of 15 defensive runs saved at SS. That is exceptional. There is one little hitch that has popped up, and it might throw a wrench into the works. Rojas might need further surgery on his wrist before spring training.

  3. Today is MLB International Signing Day:
    According to Baseball America the Dodgers have thus far have signed:
    Los Angeles Dodgers ($4,144,00)Pool money

    Yoandry Vargas, SS, Dominican Republic
    Arnaldo Lantigua, OF, Dominican Republic
    Daniel Mielcarek, SS, Dominican Republic
    Jesus Tillero, RHP, Venezuela

    At 6-foot-3, the long and lean Vargas will face questions about his ability to stay at shortstop, but the Dominican Republic native already shows a quick first step, good hands and instincts for the position. He’ll stay in the middle of the infield for as long as he can, but his plus arm potential will serve him well if he transitions to third base in the future.

    At the plate, Vargas shows an advanced approach with the ability to hit for average. One of the top hitters in the class, he hits line drives to all fields and shows home run potential with a mechanically sound swing. He is expected to show more raw power and rack up extra-base hits as he fills out his frame. Vargas trains with Raul “Banana” Valera, a member of MLB’s Trainer Partnership Program.

    A power-hitting outfielder from the Dominican Republic, Lantigua is big and strong now, and more strength could be on the way. His ability to make consistent contact and hit for power emerged in recent years. If he continues to develop at a normal pace, he could turn into a middle-of-the order bat in the future because of his offensive prowess. Lantigua can be overly aggressive in the batter’s box and needs to be more patient at the plate, but he’s working on strike zone recognition and fine-tuning his approach.

    Overall, he has a chance to stay in center field because of his speed and arm strength, but he also profiles as a right fielder for those reasons. He trains with Marino Sierra in the Dominican Republic.

    1. Will be interesting to see which, if any, teams emulate the Astros and start targeting older (relatively) international prospects

  4. Sounds like we have plenty of hitters that are good. But which ones will start most of the games. It seems like the Dodgers never have a set nine guys that always play each day. Its always a different lineup. And, when the playoffs get here. Fans are like okay which nine guys is Roberts playing today. I like the years when you knew the nine guys that would start.
    Yeager
    Garvey
    Lopes
    Russell
    Cey
    Baker
    Lacy
    Smith
    Those guys started and then you had guys on the bench that played sometimes. Now fans come to a game to see maybe the rookies play Outman and Vargas and on that day. Roberts puts in Taylor and Thompson to start. As a fan. You feel like dam. I spend all this money and get to see two bench players play. So, give me a starting lineup that would be your 2023 lineup most of the time. If Lux faulters at shortstop.
    Very good article by the way. I think as a fan of the Dodgers. I would want Muncy and Vargas to play almost every day. So, if Lux faulters at short stop. And Rojas ends up starting at shortstop. What do they do with Lux? Then it sounds like he becomes a Chris Taylor yet younger who floats around an plays different positions. In spring training if Lux faulters. I do believe they will try to trade him and upgrade at shortstop. Then they can see how other shortstops are doing in spring training. And, maybe a team needs a second baseman. That’s what I think will happen with Lux. Or at least by the trade deadline.

    1. The Astros did the exact same thing. Teams use analytics to go with the best matchups. Some people don;t like it, but it makes perfect sense.

    2. Why is no one blasting San Diego for playing Tatis in CF when he has not really played there but believe Lux can’t play there? Here is the lineup I would like to see:

      1. Lux CF
      2. Betts RF
      3. Freeman 1B
      4. Martinez DH
      5. Smith C
      6. Muncy 2B
      7. Vargas 3B
      8. Thompson/Outman/Dugger/Zimmer/Taylor LF (the two best platoon)
      9. Rojas SS

      That lineup could score more runs than the 2022 Dodgers

      2. Why should anyone blast SD for trying to figure out where to play Tatis? Perhaps that’s happening on Padres blog somewhere.
        They’ve committed $300 million to the guy, and he has the athletic talent to play just about anywhere. The Pads are overloaded. Is there a more potent trio than Machado, Soto and Tatis? And now they add Bogaerts. That lineup is going to be scary.
        As for Lux, I’ve seen no indication that the Dodgers plan to play him in the OF. If he’s been getting a lot of reps at CF this winter, it’s a well-kept secret. Instead, we’ve all heard from the Dodger brain trust express confidence in Lux as a shortstop. Perhaps the confidence is misplaced–or exaggerated. Acquiring Rojas is at least a way to hedge the bet on Lux as SS. Plan A or Plan B for Lux is clearly 2B, not CF.
        As far as the OF goes, these are names we keep hearing: Betts, Thompson, Outman, Taylor, Heyward, Duggar, Zimmer. Oh, and maybe Vargas and Busch for LF. Maybe even a little JD Martinez.
        Not that Lux lacks the ability to play OF. But when the Dodgers tried him out there a couple seasons back, the lifelong SS didn’t really look like The Natural. (Perhaps we’ve been spoiled by CT3 and Kike, two real plug-and-play types.)
        Steep learning curve. When Lux was struggling badly against lefthanded pitching in 2021, I suggested that he be retrained as a UT guy –a lefty hitting version of Taylor. But then in the first few months of 2022, playing 2B, Lux seemed to have figured it out. He was a Top Ten batter and his OBP was second on the team to Freddie. His defense didn’t dazzle–still got the yips–but surely this would improve. Then Lux got hurt and his performance tailed off. Still, he flashed the potential.
        Thompson, Outman and Taylor are proven quality outfielders. They have excellent range and strong arms. Heyward, still just 33, used to be one of the best, and Duggar and Zimmer signed minor league contracts too. Vargas and Busch are getting OF reps too.
        The Dodgers do a lot of mixing and matching, and I think Lux and Rojas will both get a lot of starts.
        But for the best balance of offense and defense, I’d try this lineup:
        Mookie RF
        Freddie LF
        JD DH
        Max 3B
        Will C
        Lux 2B
        Trayce/Vargas LF
        Outman/Taylor CF
        Rojas SS

        Bench: Barnes, Heyward, maybe Busch, ???

  5. So we’re back with Lux and Taylor in Centerfield. I thought you guys had Lux starting at shortstop. So that’s why I was wondering where he would play. Got it! I like that lineup to. The same nine guys for like what 160 games.

    2. Bradley those days are long gone. Might have worked into the 90’s, but teams today rarely play the same 8 position players every game. Last time the Dodgers did it was in the 70’s and 90’s. They were platooning when Alston was the manager. The only guys on those teams who played everyday were Wills and Tommy Davis. Pretty much everyone else was platooned. Willie Davis was in center most of the time and Wes Parker at first beginning in 1964 but he also saw time in CF. Neither one of them ever played all 162 games. Even Wills only played every game just once, in 1962 when he played in 165 games. Tommy Davis played in 163 games in 62. Someone who played in every game for 7 years? Steve Garvey. Russell did it once, Cey and Lopes never did. Piazza never did it and Karros did it once. Trea Turner missed two games last season and Freeman missed three.

  6. Good summary of the CBT, Mark.

    One thing I would point out is that high end free agents salaries are far outpacing the increase in CBT thresholds.

    Stan Kasten has always talked about the importance of developing minor league players, part of the Atlanta playbook, to create a talent pool and keep costs down.

    In today’s marketplace, it is no longer feasible to build a team through free agency. The costs and length of contracts may prove successful in the short term, but will eventually lead to lengthy periods of decline unless organizations have strong farm systems. Most don’t.

    As the Dodgers look at 2024 and beyond they have only two major lengthy contracts on the books (Mookie Betts and Freddie Freeman) so they have considerable flexibility moving forward.

    They also have several players moving through the farm who can make an impact in ’23 and beyond.

    A lot of writers and analysts believe they make a big play for Shohei Ohtani or maybe Juan Soto in ’24. Ohtani will be incredibly expensive, may be the biggest contract ever. Would the Dodgers commit that kind of money? Beyond just his ability to pitch and hit, Ohtani may open up another lucrative revenue stream for the Dodgers and that is the Japanese market. That may factor into their future plans.

    1. That’s why it is so important to re-set the CBT. If they want to sign Ohtani and another big signing, they could pay Ohtani $40 million next year, PLUS a $40 Million Penalty. That is felony stupid

  7. That lineup with the two rookies in it starting. I feel matches pretty well with all the other teams in the west division. Plus, the Dodgers have the best pitching in the division. I would predict 2023 Dodgers to win about 98 games. Teams saw that you don’t have to win 111 games to get to the world series. Its all about what teams are hot and play together. When we played the Padres. There was no fire in the guys eyes. All the momentum was in the Padres dugout.

  8. In 2021, the Braves won 88 games, The least of any division winner. But they got hot at exactly the right time and jumped out to a 3-1 game lead over the Dodgers in the NLCS, Counting the Wild Card and the three wins over the Giants, the 91 win Braves beat the 111 win Dodgers. When they played the Padres they had been sitting on their ass for five days playing intrasquad games while the Pads were fighting the Mets for their playoff lives I think that had more than a little to do with the lack of urgency, They won game one, then Trea’s error in game two opened the door for a come from behind win sending them to Dago tied at a game apiece rather than being two games up. Roberts pulling Anderson in game four when he was totally shutting down the Pads did not help either, That plus the fact that the bullpen sucked most of the series was also a contributor. Freeman, Muncy and Trea were the only regulars who were hitting. JT had a bad series so did Will Smith. Taylor was 0-7. Bellinger had 1 hit, Thompson had 2. The vaunted Dodger power showed up only in game 2 against Darvish when they cracked 3 homers off of him by the third inning. Never scored again that entire game.

    1. “Trea’s error in game two opened the door for a come from behind win sending them to Dago tied at a game apiece rather than being two games up.”

      As I said up top the reason why the Dodgers lost that game is because the offense sucked.

      1. No, his error gave them the go-ahead run. The pitching was god awful too. His error put Graterol in a bad place. Your opinion is that the offense sucked, San Diego did not exactly knock the cover off of the ball that night. They win that game, they are up 2-0 in the series, instead they gave Dago life and that was that. I simply disagree with your view. Had he made that play, they probably would have gotten out of the inning unscathed.

  9. Yep a more consistent lineup for the Dodgers is very important especially without doing the shift anymore.
    Do you think Freeman and Betts and Smith should play less games and that way they aren’t warn out by the playoff time.
    And like always Taylor Lux and Betts always seem to get injured and can’t play every game.
    So they need guys that can replace those guys when they do not play. And be consistent hitters like a Heyward Thompson and Barnes. I think those guys are your bench players that give guys like Taylor Betts and Lux days off. Freeman will be everyday and Muncy and Smith and Betts. It’s the other side positions that will change because the computer will say to okay them against what ever pitcher there facing that day.

    1. Betts has been relatively healthy in his career. But the way they were playing, he could afford the time off. Lux has not been around long enough to say he is injury prone. In 21 he spent time at AAA. Last season he had the neck problem. As for Taylor, he has been as close to an everyday guy as anyone. Last season was the first time he missed extended time due to an injury. Smith DH’s sometimes which keeps him fresh. Roberts rests Mookie once in a while, especially if he is slumping. Freddie got 3 games off last season and still managed 199 hits and 100 RBI’s.

  10. Excellent article Mark.
    If the Dodgers don’t reset the luxury tax this year and return to their normal payroll, they will likely incur an additional $20 million in tax payments plus lose draft pick value of another $10 million each year.
    The simplest way for the Dodgers to reset CBT is to trade Treinen and attach prospects worth his salary of $8million. Per MLB trade values it would be something like Bruns and Knack together or Pepiot alone needed to be worth $8million.
    The Dodgers need to keep their options open at this point, but in spring training they could still decide to unload Treinen salary without hurting this years team.
    Dodgers should find a way to reset CBT unless they are forced to make a big move at the trade deadline.

  11. Dustin May, Bobby Miller, Diego Cartaya, Mike Busch, and Ryan Pepiot for Ohtani?

    Would you do it?

    2. So the D’s would have him a year , and sans contract extension, he becomes F A ? No way. Why not just wait a year ? THEN go after him if you just HAVE to have him.

    3. Every time someone suggests a trade I look for Miller’s name in it. No, every time. In a sense, he reminds of what happened with Randy Johnson. He couldn’t repeat his mechanics, then suddenly he figured it out. The tools are too loud to give up on. I feel the same way about Cartaya. He has a chance to be really special. Dustin May still has a chance to be really special. No possible way I make that trade.

      1. I wouldn’t either, but it’s about what the A’s would ask.

        … and Miller is in every trade because everyone asks for him.

        Miller repeats his mechanics very well. Randy Johnson was very wild. Miller is not that wild. He’s much more fixable. He’s also very close!

  12. Adam Duval is still out there as an outfield free agent. That would have been a better fit for the Dodgers as a outfielder. Who can play all three positions in the outfield. He would be better then Duggar or Zimmer power wise.
    Elvis Andrus is out there as a free agent shortstop. He has veteran leadership and experience played well for the A’s last year.
    Brandon Solano is a infielder for the Reds plays like three infield positions he used to batter the Dodgers. When he was with the Giants. A good guy off the bench.
    I wouldn’t be surprised is they try to sign some of these guys to minor league deals. The one with experience in the major leagues. Just in case the rookies can’t handle it. You know be prepared just in case. Just like last year. The Dodgers had that outfielder that used to be a Giant. Then he dislocated his shoulder. Where is that guy at now. He plays defense well in the outfield.

    1. Bradley,

      You started out with some good stuff, and then you go and say silly stuff like that?

      Duvall made $9.2 Million last year, and he’s going to sign $500,000 minor-league deal. He won’t play before he does that.

      Andrus made $14.2 Million – he isn’t paying for a minor-league salary.

      I hate to say it, but sometimes it is better to silent and thought a fool…

      1. Both Bradley and Eric posting multiple times at the same time and on the same day is more than I can take.

        1. And Dodgerpatch let me guess. You hide your name so if someone ever does see you on the streets. They wont know who you are. How long you been a fan of the Dodgers? Because I’ve been one since I was 4 years old and seen alot at Dodgers Stadium live amazing things. So yeah I kind of wonder. What they will do the Dodgers if the rookies aren’t ready. Thought this was a fan forum to chat on. Not to be critical of people and make fun of them. Which is it? Because if we want to talk smack let me know and I will talk smack back to you. Okay. CabbagePatch!

          1. I have met Patch Bradley. Him, me, Watford and BP got together and watched a game at a sports bar in Huntington Beach. We had a great couple of hours watching the game and discussing the Dodgers. I would think Patch has been a fan at least as long as you have. Both of you are younger than me. AF has a plan, no one here knows what it is. They bring veterans in on minor league deals every year. Last season it was Pillar and Jake Lamb. They both spent time with the team and then Pillar got hurt and was gone for the rest of the year. Lamb ended up being traded to the Mariners. People use handles on sites like this simply because putting too much information out on sites and social media can cause some problems. I use Bear because I have had that nickname since I was in the Army. I was around to see some of the best players that have ever played the game, and I have also been around long enough to see the evolution of the game. The game they play today, is definitely not the game of youth. You would have died every night back when a rally was a walk, a stolen base a sacrifice bunt and a fly ball to score the run. Enjoy the offense they produce and will produce. They have 7 legitimate MLB hitters in their lineup. Betts, Muncy, Lux, Freeman, Taylor, Smith and Martinez. All of those guys have hit at least 20 homers in a season except Lux. So the power will be there. Just hope Muncy and Taylor get back on track. They are the only two I have any concerns about at all.

          2. Hello Bradley.

            My name is Barrett

            You’re an idiot.

            I think what makes your posting particularly irritating is, not only are your long winded posts an incoherent jumble of stream of consciousness, throw-a-plate-of-spaghetti-against-the-wall thoughts, but that half of your posts are you calling people out and whining that you aren’t getting a nice little pat on the head for your contributions.

            You DEMAND attention. You DEMAND praise. You DEMAND respect. … and you offer very little in return. Here’s the key lesson you need to remember – by posting here, you are not entitled to a damn thing.

            If you post something and you get a positive response – great! If you post something and you don’t, well, ask yourself why and up your game.

            It’s not about YOU. The purpose is CONTRIBUTING something of value for the benefit of other posters. So far, all you’ve contributed is a bunch of noise that users have to scroll through to find a signal, or require inordinate amounts of energy by people like Bear to satisfy your need for attention, and you try to get attention by acting foolish.

            Good for Bear. He’s got much more patience than I do. I’m a grumpy son-of-a-bitch and I don’t suffer fools very well.

            Cheers.

      2. Mark sometimes your comments are pretty hurtful. But maybe some fans would wonder. Why they aren’t signing free agents that have experience. Just in case the rookies can’t hit. I know you think there both the next Willie Mays and Pete Rose. But what happens if Outman and Vargas can’t handle the majors then what. How about just answer the question . Rather then give a smart alleck remark about a person which you don’t even know me. Okay.

        1. Then stop saying dumb stuff. Smart people can say dumb stuff. Do your research. I did not call you dumb…

          1. You said my posts weren’t good and I thought they were legit questions. To have better ones. As for Patch he can suck on my left toe I don’t care what he thinks. He thinks he controls this site. Some fans will answer my questions and others won’t. So have a fine day Patch. You live in LA right. Me too. So I hope we run into each other someday. Because I do have baseball knowledge and alot of history in this mind if mine. So, I like baseball and some fans love my posts. You two just don’t be so critical each and every day. Nobody like that okay.

    2. Couple of things Bradley, Andrus is one year younger than Rojas. He made 14 mil last year and Rojas is making 5 mil this year. The other thing is that he is not that good defensively. Certainly, he cannot hold a candle to Rojas’s defense. He hit with some power last year, but his average wasn’t that great. His OBP and OPS are not that impressive. He only strikes out about 20 percent of the time, so that is not bad. As for Duvall, he is coming off of an injury riddled season. He only got into 86 games, he hit .213, with 12 homers and 36 RBI’s. I think Heywood could easily match those numbers if healthy. He made 9 million last year. Right now there are questions about his health and just how much it would take to sign him. If I were going after a short term shortstop, I would have considered Rafael Iglesias.

  13. I was just mentioning free agents that are still out there that could help the Dodgers if the rookies don’t develope. Sorry, for wondering what they will do. So I was asking for your opinion on who would be good to sign to a minor league deal. Ya know just in case. Forgot everything you mention is always right. Sorry for asking questions.

    1. If you check on spotrac they have a full list of available players. They also list the Market value of the player. Some of the guys still out there, Pham, Profar, Duvall, Peralta, Calhoun, Robbie Grossman, Ramiel Tapia, Tyler Naquin, Pillar, Ben Gamel, Chad Pinder, Jackie Bradley Jr., Guillermo Heredia, Alex Dickerson, and Mikie Mahook. There are several others Brinson just signed to play in Japan. I think Socrates Brito did the same.

  14. I thought this was a fan forum. Where fans ask questions and see what people have heard rumors about possible signings. Didn’t know everything had to have a purpose. So I asked a good question. And the typical three guys smash it. Because, well I didn’t know maybe they knew. So I looked into free agents and pulled out three names with bug league experience just in case the rookies can’t hit. A player that would help the Dodgers next season. I thought that this is a fan forum. And not a dictatorship where the same three guys. Can only bring up topics to talk about. And then make fun of the questions everyone else asks on here. Maybe just maybe fans would like to know some things and you guys not be so critical of what people ask on here. And just answer the questions. Without a smart alleck remark. Okay.

  15. I was thinking about Duvall too. The fact that he is still out there has me wondering about his health. Or maybe he just overestimates his value.
    Signing another veteran for a few million would make it harder for Vargas, Outman and Busch to get playing time.
    I’m optimistic that Heyward, still just 33, can get his game back into shape. Heyward, Duggar and Zimmer become more important if CT3 is shipped out in a salary dump. (Getting Rojas also makes Taylor expendable.)
    There is another matter I hope gets done: Signing Urias to an extension.
    2024 six-man rotation:
    Ohtani
    Urias
    Buhler
    Gonsolin
    May
    Stone
    Miller…
    OK, that’s six and a spare.

    1. Nice, that’s a very nice response to my question. thank you. That’s what I was wondering the same thing why Adam Duval was still out there as a free agent. And hope they don’t rely on Heyward Duggar and Zimmer. If the rookies don’t turnout to be good in the majors. That would be scary and a long year. Alot of wishing for three players to find there bats again. I too hope Heyward finds his swing again.

      2. Way too early but assuming 13 position players:

        C–Smith/Barnes
        1B–Freeman
        2B–Muncy
        SS–Lux/Rojas
        3B–Vargas
        LF–Taylor/Heyward
        CF–Outman/Trayce
        RF–Betts
        DH–JDM

        Only room for one of those NRI OFers.

        1. Yeah, Rojas’s is a little different, the wrist wasn’t injured. He has calcium build up in there and they removed some of it. May have missed some,

    3. Duvall can’t hit righties. He’s a good platoon option. They already have CT3 and Thompson from the right side in the Outfield mix and Pages is close. Not sure how much money Duvall will get.

  16. Boras is Julio’s agent and there’s no way he’s signing an extension. He’s going to the open market and I doubt AF will pay top dollar for him. And I think we have to trust AF and his crew regarding the kids. I think Vargas will be a stud and maybe we get a plus with either outman or Busch

  17. Thanks for the excellent explanation of the CBT Mark. It seems though that these owners pay a $1,000,000 penalty with the same feeling that we pay a $100 speeding ticket.

    NO to that and any other Ohtani trade. LET THE KIDS PLAY !!!

    You also mentioned that Manfred has made it clear that he does not want Bauer to be signed by anyone. The Bauer camp made mention of a suit of collusion against MLB. My 80 year old head seems to remember two other collusion suits brought against MLB and MLBPA won both of them so there is precedent there. Personally I think Bauer will be signed by someone, and I think it will be the Padres since his lover was kinda like a second cousin once replaced relative of the Padres. They owe her and him that, then he can buy a house there and she can move in.

    LET THE KIDS PLAY – desire and energy!!!

  18. I got a speeding ticket about 25 or 30 years ago and it was over $100 back then. I’m sure they’ve got to be much more these days. Your last speeding ticket must have been a long time ago Gerald.

  19. My major gripe with over cap spending, is the QO related penalties and moving down 10 spots in the first round when we really go all out. But that’s a fluid thing, not always going to be extending QOs every year for example. Still, in general, I think it’s probably a good thing to reset every other year or two. Ideally, you want a nice balance of prospects and highly paid vets on the roster, which shouldn’t push the cap limits much. If we’re going over too many consecutive years, our youth/vet balance is probably off anyway and needs to be corrected.

    Going into the off-season, I had hope for a few things:
    1.) find short term tools-y veteran bat to replace Trea’s production in the order. Doing so allows the top of the order to carry the bottom of the lineup if necessary…like last year. We can hope the bottom is vastly better this year, but at least we’ll have insurance. I narrowed it down to signing either Abreu or Martinez, or trading for Votto. Probably worked out perfectly.
    2.) Re-sign Kershaw and Anderson. One for two. I’m optimistic with Syndergaard, but envisioning more Heaney like impact than Tyler Anderson impact from him. One or more prospects will need to step up.
    3.) Do not bring in journeymen position players to compete with the prospects and give Roberts an excuse not to play the prospects. Eh, they didn’t go overboard, but they’ve definitely given Doc the all vet option if he wants it. If he chooses, he could go Heyward/Taylor LF, Thompson CF, Lux/Taylor 2B, Muncy 3B, Rojas at SS. Some folks may prefer this. I’d ask if that’s any better than the lineup that fizzled against the Padres or better on paper than the Braves, Mets, Phils, or Padres lineups right now? If yes, you’re probably picturing the 2021 versions of Taylor and Muncy, and not the 2022 versions. I’m not confident those guys exist anymore. I think to compete one or more of Outman, Busch, Vargas will need to break out and exceed expectations. To do that, they’ll need Roberts to let them play through their mistakes. We’ll see.

  20. A little off topic here, but I’ve been pondering whether we are going to look back 10 years from now and ask ourselves how did we fail to sign one of the two top SS of this generation. I won’t go as far to claim Turner and Seager will end being hall of famers like Beltre, but our current situation at SS is starting to bring back some post Adrian Beltre vibes. It wasn’t until Just Turner arrived that I felt we finally found some stability at the hot corner.

    I don’t mean this in a demeaning manner, but both Seager and Turner spoiled us a bit. It will not be easy replacing that type of production out of the SS position.

    1. Beltre was a huge mistake. I think with the number of years being tossed around for those two guys and the fact that they both got 300 million plus might have been part of the reason. But Turner turned down more money from the Padres. He was never going to sign with a west coast team. As for Seager, in order to match the contract, he signed with Texas, the Dodgers would have had to pay him over 400 million since there is no state income tax in Texas. He would have paid a ton of state tax in California.

  21. All well said posts that I enjoyed reading. And everyone’s comments that’s all your opinions on things the Dodgers should do. All good ideas. Of course it’s hard to replace seager and Turner at shortstop. The Dodgers always find themselves a shortstop some how and they always find themselves a centerfielder. They will find both before the trade deadline. Either there already in the organization or they will trade for a player. That’s Dodgers baseball. They find what they are missing and go and grab it. Because what baseball player doesn’t want to be a LA Dodger.

  22. Venture capitalist Joe Lacob, best known as the owner of SF Warriors, has expressed an interest in buying the Angels. I’m not sure who he is competing against, but Lacob helped build a winning culture with the Warriors. If Lacob gets the Angels, the odds of a Freeway Series go up.
    Whoever gets the Angels will have a serious dilemma with Ohtani. Keeping Ohtani means committing about $400 million, maybe more, to a payroll that already has Trout. The Angels have really had a good winter and could be in the hunt at midseason. But it’s a tough division. Angels may decide to deal even if the they are in the hunt.
    And why not?
    A few teams could offer “win now” packages + prospects for “win later.”
    The Dodgers could start with JDM, since Ohtani would slide into the DH role. With Ohtani taking a SP role, the Dodgers could offer an attractive front-line starter like May or ??? Right now, the Dodgers don’t have pitcher who is really Ohtani’s equal–but Miller has the potential. Is he offered as well as a sweetener? If I owned the Angels, I’d insist on Rushing and another promising arm (Nastrini? Frasso?) and a couple of young lottery tickets.
    Angels’ ownership would have to be sold on the idea that it’s both instant upgrade and a good long-term move. Dodgers would get a new ace and a superior DH. With their depth and the quality of the farm system, the Dodgers are one of the few franchises in a position to pull this off.
    I’m not entirely sure what the package would look like–only that it would include JDM–but you get the idea.
    This may not be an original thought. But I think the conventional wisdom has been that Ohtani would only be dealt if the Angels have no shot at the playoffs.
    Perhaps that’s not true.

    1. Good thought Duke with one problem. If they traded him down the 5 freeway, the fans would go nuts. The package would have to be huge, and the Dodgers would need him to sign an extension before the trade would be finalized. They would probably ask for a 72-hour window to negotiate. The PR hit Angel ownership would take would be gigantic.

  23. Here are the Dodger’s International signings yesterday according to Baseball America:

    Los Angeles Dodgers ($4,144,00) signing money available

    Joendry Vargas, SS, Dominican Republic
    Arnaldo Lantigua, OF, Dominican Republic
    Daniel Mielcarek, SS, Dominican Republic
    Jesus Tillero, RHP, Venezuela
    Elias Medina, SS, Dominican Republic
    Anderson Jerez, RHP, Dominican Republic
    Erick Batista, RHP, Dominican Republic
    Eduardo Quintero, C, Venezuela
    Samuel Sanchez, RHP, Venezuela
    Luis Carias, RHP, Venezuela
    Harold Gonzalez, SS, Venezuela
    Javier Herrera, SS, Venezuela
    Robinson Ventura, RHP, Venezuela

  24. I have a question to post to all of you. Does is really make sense to pay one or maybe two megastars 300 mil or more decreasing your ability to sign quality players or pay your own when there is no guarantee that those players mean Championships? The Dodgers have 2 stars with contracts over 100 mil. Betts and Freeman. If they Angels manage to keep Ohtani, they will have two players well over 200 mil. The Pads have Machado and Bogaerts over 200 right now and If I remember right, Tatis is owed a ton too. And they haven’t won anything yet. Loyalty between players and the teams has taken a backseat to how much can I make. Kershaw is an anomaly as is Judge who will spend their entire careers with the same team. Trout will most likely be that guy too. Players are going to leave. I honestly believe this will be Urias’s last season as a Dodger unless they give him a very lucrative long-term contract. And as we have seen, this organization does not give long tern deals to pitchers. Longest since AF took over is four years for McCarthy and we all saw how that turned out.

    1. My answer is to STOP going over the CBT every year and signing players that have been offered qualifying offers so you’re not penalized by losing draft position and international signing money. Scout, draft, sign and develop your own players. Two Superstars on the roster with high annual salaries is sufficient. Spend your money on quality scouting and quality coaching in the minors.

      1. Great point. They draft so low in the draft that getting the top players is not an option. They use most of their picks well though. The Dodgers probably spend more money on player development that most other teams. I would also add that if you are going to sign a player with a somewhat questionable past, you do a much better job with the background check.

    2. And then throw in the possibility of an unforseen injury or chronic injury, or that they engage in risky off-field behavior. This is always in the back of my mind when considering Ohtani, who would cost a mountain of money. I agree two legitimate superstars and their salary should be enough to satisfy fans.

      1. That should always be a consideration. Worst loss in spring training I can remember is when Guererro broke his leg sliding into a base at Vero. After that they were basically dead because he was at that time the butter and egg man.

        1. The frustrating part for me is having to see home-grown stars or superstars fly the coop at the first opportunity. That’s not so much a problem for a team like the Dodgers, but take a team like Detroit, they are basically a farm team for the rest of the league. JD Martinez is a good example .

    3. The market is the market. Yes, there’s only so may large contracts you can afford. If you have a bunch of cheap, young players, you can afford more large contracts. If you don’t, you have to spend millions on journeymen.

      For me, I can’t believe how many 10 year contracts are out there, especially this past offseason. But, then again, in 10 years, 30M might not seem like so much the way salaries keep increasing.

  25. While our minor league system is very good it is bare of ss and 3b.
    I see no 3b or ss among our top prospects AND close to being major league ready.

    Dodgers have done a poor job on those two positons over the last few years and it bites them now.
    Maybe a swap of top prospects with another franchise should be considered since we are very deep and talented in pitching and catcher.

    Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    1. They picked up a ton of shortstops in the last year’s draft and in this International signing period. There is no one close yet, but they do have guys that aren’t on the top 30.

      3B Leonel Valera AA last year.
      Wilman Diaz is going to be 19 years old this year and will mostly likely be at low A
      3B Brandon Lewis reached AA last year
      2B/SS/3B Eddys Leonard High A last year
      3B Kody Hoese AA last year

      To say they’ve done a poor job and it bites them this year is plain fucking stupid. Vargas is a top 3B prospect and Lux was the Top 1 or 2 prospect at any position just a couple of years ago whether you want to acknowledge it or not.

      1. Yes, they finally adressed it last draft and in this international signing period. I am fully aware of it.
        But in previous YEARS they neglected those two positions and it bites them NOW. Because it is a fact they have nobody close to being ready to step in at SS. Lux is already 25 years old and Vargas is not a clear cut 3b. He gets the job by default because he has no other position you can trust him to play at a major league level. MOF it is yet to determine if he can play a major league 3b.

        And why do some posters on this blog always have to call others stupid when all they do is disagree ?
        Some users are so full of themself , showing hybris like they would be baseball gods.

        Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

        1. It’s stupid to say “it bites them now” because they have those positions covered. It would “bite them now” if they didn’t. You’re trying to create a narrative that Vargas and Lux can’t handle those positions and it’s simply not true. If Vargas fails, they can move Muncy to 3B and have Busch play second. If both fail, they can always move CT3 to the infield. They have multiple options, so saying “it bites them now” is stupid. Get it? It’s not hubris. It’s doing research and know what options you have. If you have a top prospect at a position, it isn’t “biting them now”. It’s creating room for a top prospect to graduate.

          1. Both Vargas and Lux have big question marks around them at 3b and ss. This has been discussed on several Dodgers message boards, one of them being this blog. And the Dodgers themself have not much faith in those two players holding down 3b and ss or they would not have traded for Rojas.
            Having to depend on a 34 year old Rojas is “biting them now” in my view.
            And another fact is that the Dodgers have not drafted or signed a blue chip ss prospect in some time . Hoese was the last 3b drafted high and he has not developed as hoped. Some of the other guys you mentioned are fringe prospects or very young and raw (Diaz).

            Having options by moving guys around is not the same as having a certain positon covered (well).
            It is just a fact that ss and 3b are the weankesses in the system. while c an p is an obvious strength.

            Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

        2. dodgerram

          “And why do some posters on this blog always have to call others stupid when all they do is disagree ?
          Some users are so full of themself”

          I agree. I’ll let you in on a little secret, it’s not posters plural, it’s one poster in particular.

          1. There you go attacking me again Eric. It’s you and you do it every chance you get, in a passive-aggressive manner of course.

          2. Dodgeram it’s because they think they are the only ones that are right. That’s why they delete messages when you show them that there wrong. They think there big men calling people idiots, or dumb, or we don’t know what we are talking about. Because they think they know everything about baseball. And if you disagree with them. Well then they don’t like you. So just keep posting and pissing them off. Because I laugh every day that they take this so seriously. And then they get mad.

    2. I think they drafted six shortstops in the last draft, and one of the international kids they are signing is a SS. They went through the same problem at third many years ago. Until Cey came along, third was a revolving door. Just like left field their last few seasons in Brooklyn.

      1. Gotta have a little faith that with all those talented guys coming up, they are going to find a keeper mainstay at third.

      2. I just reviewed their international signings for this year and they had five SS listed. The lack of SS prospects may have been because of the belief that Corey Seager would have the position covered in the future. They did have Amaya developing, but he was traded. I would have liked to have seen him given an opportunity with the Dodgers. I guess I’ll watch his Miami career and see if that would have been wise to keep him.

  26. Another athlete charged with a major crime. This time it is an Alabama University basketball player charged with capital murder. I sometimes wonder if these guys ever just stop and think.

      1. Agreed. I may have weapons, but it would take some serious incident before I ever considered using one on another human being. I think I have more than enough self control that it will never happen. I often take my 9mm with me when I go fishing, but that is because there are rattlesnakes near some of the lakes I go to.

  27. It seems like a lot of people didn’t really bother to read the CBT specifics that Mark posted. Here’s the main points.

    You only pay tax on the overages.
    You only get penalized in the draft if you go over by more than $40M.

    Example, you go $40 M over the cap for the third year in a row. You pay 12% surcharge and 50% tax on that $40M. The total penalty would be about $25M. The Dodgers wipe their asses with $25M. Just look at all the bad contracts over the last several years where they paid nearly that much on shitty or injured players, just to have “depth”. They took on Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett just to get Adrian Gonzales. They paid nearly that much to David Price and injure guys like Nelson and Knebel and Duffy the last couple of years. They’re paying Bauer that much this year.

    The Dodgers pick at the end of each round for the draft every year because the finish at the top of league standings every year. Do you really think it makes a difference if they pick 30 or 40 when there’s virtually no difference in the chances that a player picked in those spots become a good MLB ballplayer?

    Yes, they are running a business. But, do you think $25M is going to make or break them? The Dodgers averaged about 7,000 more fans at every home game than the next closest team, every year. That’s over 500,000 fans for their home games. If they manage to pull $100 bucks from each fan, that a $50M advantage. Twice the penalties for maxing out the first level of the CBT.

    The advantages for getting under the cap are greatly exaggerated. Their perceived lack of offseason moves has more to do about the talent they have on hand, than trying to stay under the cap.

    They didn’t get a third baseman because at this point in time, they have better options than what JT provided and there weren’t any other better options on the free agent market.

    They didn’t get a shortstop because they already have a replacement. They let both Seager and Turner walk, because it didn’t make sense to pay so much more, when Lux is an acceptable replacement.

    They didn’t get an Outfielder because they didn’t feel that the available Outfielders were necessarily much better than what they have.

    They got a Starting Pitcher they think they can fix to replace the starting pitcher that they fixed last year.

    They didn’t get a closer or back end bullpen help because they have plenty of options.

    They got an infield utility guy that can also play shortstop because they didn’t have another guy to cover short in case of injury like they had last year.

    So, if you think that they have a need, I think the front office probably disagrees with you. If you think that Lux and Vargas aren’t valid options and it’s “Biting Them Now”, you have no idea what you’re talking about. We’ve won our division every year for a decade (except the one lucky season when the Giants had all their players on BALCO products”. Have some faith that the front office knows what their doing!!!

    1. Well, might be true. Maybe the Dodgers really wipe their asses with 25 million dollar or a little more. And yes, maybe they really think Vargas, Outman, Busch and Lux are the real deal (IMHO LUx is at 2b, not a ss).

      We well soon find out. And then we will see who has “no idea” or is “stupid” or whatever .

      I have already stepped to the plate by saying that this team as the roster looks today, will win around 85-87 games, not winning the division, scoring considerably fewer runs than last season.
      Now what say you ?

      Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      1. Yes, we’ll find out who’s stupid soon enough. What say me?
        100 wins easy.
        They win the division again.
        Vargas’s OPS will be +- 20 points of JT’s OPS last season.
        Lux will play more innings at SS than anyone else on this team.
        The Dodgers will have a top 3 offense in all of MLB.
        The Dodgers will have the top pitching in all of MLB.

        The Mets improved only slightly, the only real difference is Verlander will start more games than DeGrom did. But, he and Scherzer are a year older on the wrong side of 38.

        The Padres are severely overrated. To expect Tatis to come back after wrist and shoulder surgeries and be the same player is a lot to ask. Just ask Muncy and Belli. The bottom of their lineup sucks. They have 2 DH’s now, both are horrible in the field.

        The Braves are a little weaker with the loss of Swanson.

        The Phillies improved with Trea Turner but lost quite a bit of pitching.

        Like I’ve said 1000 times before. Vargas, JDM and Outman have a better chance to outproduce TT, JT and Belli than they have to do worse. It’s that simple. My prediction? Outman, JDM and Vargas will have a combined OPS higher than what TT, Belli and JT gave us last year.

        All of this nonsense about Vargas and Lux being question marks is dumb as a box of rocks. It simply doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. Trea Turner was not a great defensive SS and neither was Seager, but we’ve had those two for years and still won our division. Lux is not a step down defensively from either of those two. His fielding PCT is 4 points lower than Turner and 2 points lower than Seager and possibly has better range than either. He has some throwing issues in the past, but 9 total errors at 2B, doesn’t indicate he has a problem to be worried about.

    2. “Example, you go $40 M over the cap for the third year in a row. You pay 12% surcharge and 50% tax on that $40M. The total penalty would be about $25M. The Dodgers wipe their asses with $25M. Just look at all the bad contracts over the last several years where they paid nearly that much on shitty or injured players, just to have “depth”. They took on Carl Crawford and Josh Beckett just to get Adrian Gonzales. They paid nearly that much to David Price and injure guys like Nelson and Knebel and Duffy the last couple of years. They’re paying Bauer that much this year.”

      This is for one year. Perhaps the Dodger do take on a contract like Ohtani or re-sign Urias. Now they’re WAY over and have to pay up an exponential tax in perpetuity – for years. Writing off a David Price as a sunk cost isn’t terrible if it’s in the short term.

      Operating a yearly budget where you’re in striking distance of resetting the CBT is still smart, even if you plan on going over it for a few years.

      Operating under conditions of financial scarcity also just makes you smarter. Having too much money to throw around makes people waste it. The Rays are good because they have to operate under scarcity. It’s good to have money, but you also need to be smart. Being “pigs” and signing Bauer? Probably not smart. Creating a process where younger players in a healthy development system consistently renew talent at the major league level? Probably smart.

      AF has, for the most part, deftly balanced operating with money and spending it shrewdly. Self-imposed budget constraints probably help.

      1. Ohtani will most likely get a 10 year deal. Going under for 1 year doesn’t only effects the tax for the first two years after. Mice nuts!

        My point is it doesn’t matter than much in the grand scheme of things.

        1. Yeah, but striking a balance between spending freely and operating within a budget constraint and rotating in rookies is smart … in the grand scheme of things. Resetting the cap every once in a while is smart in the grand scheme of things, even if you write off money to the Crawfords and the Homer Baileys.

          It won’t be long before the Mets experiment in obscene spending will run its course and they will suck for a long time.

          1. I don’t argue against any of those points. Just saying that the importance is greatly exaggerated.

    3. Quick Summation: The Dodgers are tying to get under the salary cap so they can reset it next year!

  28. “Have some faith that the front office knows what they’re doing!!!” Except in picking the most important non-player in the dugout. You kill me B&P by constantly wanting it both ways.

    1. You are of course referring to Dave Roberts. Well, that might be the case to many fans, and I myself have sometimes scratched my head at some of his in-game decisions. But, and this is what fans have to understand. He is exactly the type of manager they want. And the other question, is who would you replace him with? Many fans still want Mike Scioscia to come and manage the Dodgers. Does Mike even want to manage again? He is not getting any younger and dealing with today’s superstar egos and so many personalities in the clubhouse is not an easy task. Roberts is the foil between the front office and the media. He takes the brunt of the blame when the players fail. Now there probably have been more than a few occasions when his judgement was way off. But your teams cannot win as many games as his have unless the players have your back. Case in point, Gabe Kapler. Kapler was the other finalist when the Dodgers hired Roberts. He instead went to Philadelphia where he was not only a huge bust, but his players totally disliked his heavy-handed style. How do you think that would have played out in LA? Not well. Roberts has his faults, which manager has not. But his players respect him and play hard for him. He will be in that dugout for a while longer unless the team totally collapses.

    2. You kill me JayB. The only time you respond to me is to talk about Roberts. You’re obsessed. Find a hobby.

      The front office likes Roberts because he follows their script. It doesn’t mean he’s good at making in game decisions, but he can justify them as going with the script. The front office is good at putting together a roster. They are not good at managing in-game decisions. It’s entirely reasonable that both points can be true. Keep reaching!

        1. Mattingly’s managerial record with the Dodgers was 551, which would put him in the conversation of all time greats. His 430 record is shit with the Marlins. So, yes it’s an accident.

          1. Certainly anyone who managed in LA last ten years would probably be considered on of ‘the best ever’ Like Joe Torre went from a bum to great..
            Also on another topic–I think any post where someone is called an idiot, stupid or a moron should be removed by the list monitor.

          2. David

            2 great points. But I would add instead of the post being removed the person should be removed.

          1. I might add. I was banned and was asked to come back. Like Beetlejuice, when my name is said three times, I return.

            Maybe we should ban those that make passive-aggressive attacks on others, Eric. What’s your take on that?

  30. Yes it is the only time I respond to you because your opinion is so unreasonable and I do feel compelled to call you on it. It is absolutely amazing that a front office and a Manager not good at managing in-game decisions has the best results of any team in the NL over the past 7 years. I guess if they would have been good at in-game management, the team would have won 120-130 games each year. You are a bright guy but fail to see that you can’t be bad (albeit make some bad decisions at times) at that and still win at a record pace. You are the one who is obsessed.

    You keep saying (and rightfully so) that we will do well this year. If we do, that does negate the argument that anyone can manage this team with all its talent. However, if we do, I’m quite sure the man running the team will get no credit for doing so.

    Unfortunately, bias has a sneaky way of affecting our thought process.

    1. “I guess if they would have been good at in-game management, the team would have won 120-130 games each year.”

      Nobody has said that (except you). You’re making things up and attributing them to the person you’re arguing with to make your own argument better.

      1. Dave Roberts is not a great in-game tactical manager.
      2. The Dodgers have a very good roster and have a winning record.

      Both 1 and 2 can be true at the same time.

      “But Dave Roberts has been the manager while the Dodgers have had a winning record, therefore it must be true that Dave Roberts is directly responsible for their winning record.” (I’m paraphrasing the argument. It is not a direct quote.)

      This is not a good argument.

      1. How about we change the argument to;

        1. It’s much more important to have a manager who can handle and optimize the clubhouse than make in-game tactical changes, because those changes have a near negligible impact on the game. Too many tactics are now data driven and independent of who the manager is.

        but managing egos? Playing time? Conflicting or abrasive personalities?

        That’s tough.

        1. NO!

          The Dodgers would’ve won ten World Series’s by now if not for Robert’s bonehead moves.

          2. I don’t think he’s even been the Dodgers manager that long but I think the Dodgers should have won at least one more World Series if not two. If Doc comes on the TV, I turn the channel. I can’t stand to look at him or listen to his BS anymore.

    2. JayB. You can talk about the regular season all you want. But, they don’t give trophies for that. If you can’t see he had a big hand in losing in the postseason, I can’t argue with you anymore. You’re bias makes it impossible for you to face facts and understand what a rational argument is, as Patch pointed out.

      Saying you’re a great manager solely because of your regular season record can be easily debunked by looking at Donny Mattingly. Is it possible to be one of the best managers all time, then going to another team and being one of the worst? If record says it all, as you clearly like to point out that it does, how can simply changing teams have such a negative effect on your record? That should be proof enough that the team you manage has more of an effect on your record than your skill as a manager. But, no. Your bias gets in the way of any and all rational discussion.

  31. Roberts as a manager please don’t get me started on that. With the lineup and pitching the Dodgers have every year. Roberts should be in the playoffs and contend for a world series each year. How would he been if he was the manager of the Royals or Pirates. Think about that there’s about 20 managers that could win with what the Dodgers have.

    1. You are most likely correct. But, would the players respond or respect them? Roberts has his players full support. You do not see clubhouse drama or fights in the dugout. And more importantly, he is trusted and respected by ownership and the front office. The fans can dislike him, blame the post season failures on him, but his employers love him. That is why he got extended.

      1. I like Bruce Bochy and think his Rangers. Who are rebuilding this off season. He will get them into the playoffs. He manages the game old school. Not by a computers or listen to the front office but by if a player is hot or cold. He gets guys that he knows will be good guys.. Look what he has done since taking over the Rangers. I think a whole new starting rotation added and he is trying to upgrade the outfield . That’s a manager for you that knows how to win. And he has with the Padres and the Giants.. And the Dodgers probable could have gotten him. But see he doesn’t want to listen to the front office. He wants to run his ball club a certain way. And his philosophy has worked over the years. And the players play for that guy.

        1. Bochy might have some input to player acquisitions, but the general manager is the one making those moves. His philosophy did not work that well in San Diego. He was under .500 there in his 12-year stint. He is also under .500 with the Giants with two more losses than wins in 13 years. He was 8-16 in the post season with the Padres and in their lone World Series appearance under Bochy, they were swept by the Yankees. From 2010-14 he won three World Series. After that the Giants were competitive but could not overtake the Dodgers. The last three seasons he managed the Giants they were under .500. How he does with Texas remains to be seen. Texas is in one of the weaker divisions, but Seattle and the Angels have improved some. The class of the division is still the Astros. So getting to the playoffs might be easier said than done. Bochy is a good manager, but the manager is only as good as the players his front office provides. Torre was a bust in Atlanta and New York until he went to the Yankees. Casey Stengel had a losing record until he took over the Yanks.

  32. Yes, ‘managing the clubhouse’ is a big part of being a manager. Especially on a team like LA where players who could start elsewhere are platooning for us. (like Joc, Kike and others). But also when you do have a winning team, its easier to soothe the egos of the millionaire players. In another sport, we have Russel Wilson. It seems he was everyone’s glamor hero in Seattle (plus being married to Ciara). Now on losing Denver I am seeing stories come out about how players don’t like him, yelling at him on sidelines, gets special treatment etc.
    In Science Fiction we could check these things out in alternate universe streams. But so far that not available in MLB.

    1. I agree that managing a clubhouse is a big part of being a good manager. But, I don’t think that being a good in-game tactician is unimportant.

  33. Here is the long and short of it:

    Every playoff decision Dave Roberts has made that anyone disagrees with is purely subjective. Even bringing in Clayton to pitch against the Nats in relief is purely subjective because you cannot prove what would have happened if he didn’t make that move. I guess it gives people a sense of intellectual superiority and the ability to place blame which fills a dark place in their souls.

    I have stopped trying to change their minds – It is like trying to convince a drug addict that they should quit. It never works that way – they have to decide it themselves. Maybe they should go to DRA (Dave Roberts Annoymous), as he holds an unhealthy control over them!

    1. What happened was, Clayton got Buehler out of the inning in the Seventh. He shouldn’t have even pitched in the 8th with a 2 run lead and certainly not after giving up a homer to start the inning. Maeda was available and so was Jansen to close out those last two innings, he had been using them in those roles for the final month of the season because Maeda was a weapon as a relief pitcher.

      The day before, he pulled Rich Hill in the third inning and had to wear down the pen using 5 relievers in that game. If he hadn’t done that, he probably doesn’t even pitch Kershaw in game 5.

      So, you can diminish his mistakes by saying it’s subjective. But, that’s just giving him a pass and implying that no moves that a manager makes have any consequences on the outcome of the game. If that’s what you believe, then there is no sense in discussing it.

      1. Purely subjective conjecture. No factual basis. But what is factual is that you have your facts wrong. Doc pulled Hill in the 7th inning – you are so eager to make Doc look bad that you have to bend (actually BREAK) the truth!

        When you have to resort to making up Shit, you have no argument!

          1. I think you guys are getting your series mixed up. Doc pulled Hill in the 7th inning of game 4 of the 2018 World Series when he was leading 4-0. The bullpen proceeded to implode and they lost 9-6. Hill at the time was throwing a one hit shutout. Dave brought in Ryan Madson and he gave up a three-run shot to Mitch Moreland. It was all downhill after that.

          2. I’m far from mixed up. We’re talking about the NLDS in 19 against the Nats. I posted a link to the box score that clearly shows Hill going 2.2 innings.

          3. I have to agree with B&P on the Nats playoff loss.
            Kershaw should not have pitched the 8th inning at all. And after giving up hr to Rendon, no way he should have stayed in.
            Kolarek had handled Soto in the series. And Maeda was lights out in that series going 5 innings with only 1 hit.
            Roberts also pitched Joe Kelly instead of Jansen in the 10th inning which was crazy.
            Just terrible decisions by Roberts…

      1. I was thinking about the 2018 series when he took out Hill after he started the 7th inning. My apologies. Still, there are all after the fact. RCD is bitching about not bringing in Kenley, but then Roberts has been castigated for bringing in Kenley! In fact, a lot more. There is something very sick about this line of thinking.

        What kind of dumbass manager lets one pitcher, Bumgarner, pitch three games in the Series and win it? The difference is that Bumgarner was successful; Bochy is a genius, but he never threw a pitch and even with 3 WS Championships, he does not have the winning % of Roberts.

  34. Dave Roberts post-season winning percentage Among managers with at least 40 games in the postseason, only Hall of Famers Joe McCarthy (.698), Sparky Anderson (.618), Joe Torre (.592), and Casey Stengel (.587) won postseason games at a better clip than Roberts.

    Dave Roberts is 45–33 in the postseason, a .577 winning percentage, the equivalent of a 93-win team against the most elite competition.

    The managers above Roberts got most of their wins in the World Series, and they had longevity. Roberts has been exposed to more competition in his seven years than they did in some of their 30 years careers!

    Seek Professional Help, and realize that Dave Roberts has the best playoff record of any manager in baseball. So, if you hire another manager he will have worse winning than Doc. Peace out and if you don’t like it… PEACE OFF!

  36. Well, we went from the Luxury Tax to Dave Roberts. Quite a switch. One thing we all probably can agree on is that there are many different opinions of Roberts on this site alone. I do not like nor dislike Roberts. For the foreseeable future he is the manager of the Dodgers and nothing much any of us do or say is going to change that anytime soon. Once the initial shock of losing wears off, I just chalk it up to history and try not to dwell on what transpired. Ultimately, the players win or lose. They either perform in clutch situations, or they do not. You can blame the manager, the players, the coaches, umpires, weather, field conditions, most anything you want. Bottom line is what is done is over and done. I scratch my head at some of the moves he has made, but I did that with every manager I have seen run the team. From Alston, to Lasorda, Russell, Hoffman, Johnson, Tracy, Little, Torre, Mattingly, and now Roberts. I saw Alston make some questionable moves. Cost the team a pennant. Lasorda did the same thing. I never thought Mattingly was a very good manager simply because of all the rumors and stories of clubhouse unrest. He also was not real patient with rookies. He usually played his vets. We as fans just have to roll with the punches and hope the players respond to the leadership they have. And one thing Doc does really well is relate with his players. And unlike some, he communicates how they will be used before he uses them. Players like continuity.

      1. THis is what they are saying:

        Damn the Statistics.

        Don’t confuse me with the facts!

        My mind is already made up!

        I started with the bottom line and worked my way backwards!

        1. And let’s not forget he did win ONE World Series Championship with the Dodgers !!!! Ye Ha!!!

          1. Won one, cheated out of one, and lost one. I think the two that gall the fans the most are the last two NLDS series they lost. They were up 2-1 on DC and lost at home. They should have been up 2-0 on SD and lost sending the series to San Diego and giving the Padres life. A couple of times they were just beat by better teams, 2018 Sox and the Cubs in 16. The worst thing about the loss to the Mets in the 2015 division series was the fact that they lost the game with arguably their best pitcher on the mound. Greinke. Like Kershaw before him against St. Louis, a late inning homer beat them 3-2. What really galled everyone about the 2022 series was of course the fact that the Dodgers owned SD all year.

    2. Where is Tim Wallach wasn’t he AAA manager of the year for the Dodgers or Angels organization. I always thought he would end up being a manager some where in the majors.

      1. Wallach left the Dodger organization when Mattingly left and followed him to Miami to be a coach. He held the bench coach position until 2019. He is not at this time affiliated or employed by any MLB organization that I can find. He did manage the Dodgers AAA team at Albuquerque for a while. He did interview for two managerial posts and did not get either.

  37. Also, Rich Hill is a friend of Dave Roberts, and when Donald Trump (another great second-guesser and assassinator of people’s character) criticized Doc taking out Hill, Rich Hill stepped up and responded to Trump’s Tweet… shutting him up! Rich is still an admirer of Doc, because, unlike many people here, you can never know what will happen when a move is made. But second-guessers are never wrong… even if they did not like the move at the time.

    I want you to think about one thing: I would guess that at least half of the “alleged Bad Moves” made by Doc were discussed with the Dodger Brass before the Series or the Game. So, I guess AF is a dumbass too.

    It’s amazing how irrational ideas make you seem so irrational.

  38. As far as Doc’s bullpen pitching decisions in the playoffs.

    1) I’ve seen him bring in the worst pitchers on the staff in high leverage situations.

    2) I’ve seen him ignore reverse splits.

    3) Since the 3 batter minimum rule I’ve seen him bring in both loogy’s and roogy’s in high leverage situations to get the final out of the inning and that pitcher failed to do so therefore that pitcher had to face the other side of the plate hitter with horrible statistics in that situation.

    4) Just a few months ago I saw him bring in Andrew “home run allowing machine” Heaney in a tight game but Doc got away with it, plus the offense sucked and didn’t score any more runs if I remember right, so it didn’t matter.

    1. That would be funny if it weren’t so pathetic!

      He was the best winning percentage of any manager in baseball in the regular season EVER and is only surpassed in the post-season by four Hall-of -Famers. You are delusional!

      “But he has had the best teams”… and he has the best goddamn record _______ (fill in the blank).

  39. Wow Grienke is still a free agent. Let’s go Padres or Giants usually they go and get exDodgers on there team. LOL

  40. So who would be a better manager than Dave Roberts? Who is it that those that so dislike Doc want in his place? And will that manager get along with both ownership and the players ( managers #1 job in MLB and with LA Dodgers in todays environment)
    After seven years, and making thousands of decisions, Roberts has made some decisions that certainly didn’t work and probably were real head scratchers. But who do you want to replace him?
    Someone mention Mike Scioscia who most Dodger fans love and respect. It took Mike 19 years to do what Doc did in 7. One WS and 7 trips to the playoffs.
    And don’t kid yourself Mike’s Way is not the way baseball is played today and it would be hard to imagine Mike and the front office would get along.
    Doc has warts but he also has a pretty impressive record.
    Who is better ?

  41. I am going to take some time off.

    I do not tolerate fools easily, and there are too many here for me.

    I get stupider just reading the drivel.

    I love dissent when there are intelligent arguments attached to it.

    You are so full of something that if they gave you an enema, they could bury you in a shoebox. That applies to several people here.

    I can’t stand it anymore. Damn!

    Your arguments are just classic circular reasoning. If you tried to present these arguments in Court, You would be held in Contempt!

    For some DARK reason, you are prejudiced against DOC and it is pathetic!

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