Why Do So Many Dodger Fans Hate Andrew Friedman?

Just having a brew and thought I’d share this.

Better Beer Starts With Better Water from US Water Systems on Vimeo.

FLASH:

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There has NEVER been a better time to be a Dodger fan.

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I am going on a cruise to the Bahamas with the family and will be out until January 8th. I may or may not comment. I don’t know if I will have wi-fi. They say yes, but you never know.

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AC – DC will take good care of you.

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Happy New Year to Everyone.

When Friedman was hired by the Dodgers in 2014, if possible any of the other 29 baseball teams would have hired him. He was that highly thought of. Since he has been with the Dodgers, he has done nothing to tarnish that reputation. Has he been perfect, no he hasn’t. Has he been good, yes he has. If Friedman was to be replaced, who do you replace him with?? Ned Coletti? No thank you. He (and his front office) have not been afraid to make trades to better the team in season and during the office season. Not all have turned out well, but most have accomplished their purpose. I find that most of the displeasure with Friedman stems from the fact that those in the blogesphere are certain that Friedman “could have made nay number of trades, but chose not to.” How and where that information was obtained remains a mystery to me. I would have loved to have Chris Sale, Justin Verlander, Gerrit Cole, Cole, Stanton or others. Did the Dodgers try to obtain them? Don’t know. Did the trading team prize the prospects offered by other teams more? Don’t know. Do I believe everything I read on MLB Rumors or like sites? No I don’t. Was the Farmer trade a salary dump? Don’t think so, but it certainly does provide salary relief and flexibility. I think that’s a good thing. Will other moves be made before spring training starts? I hope so. Will I be surprised by the moves to be made? Probably. I didn’t see the Farmer trade coming. I didn’t see either prior Kemp trade coming. The trade by which we obtained Alex Wood, et al. was surprising and incredibly innovative. I was excited when they traded for A. Chapman, but I understood when they backed out of the trade.

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Do I think our team as presently constructed is capable of winning the World Series? Probably not, but it could happen if everything went right.

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Mark, I would also add a second question to yours, “Why do so many Dodger fans hate Dave Roberts?” After Torre and Mattingly, I’m ecstatic to have him in our dugout. I would also ask, “who would you rather have?” Once again, he’s not perfect, but he is pretty darn good.

How about middle relief? Andrew inheirited middle relief issues, ando has never solved that. He uses the flawed logic that stats are the answer and if you fail with stats, it means you don’the have enough stats.

Mark Timmonson article “Why Do So Many Dodger Fans Hate Andrew Friedman?” and most of the replies were excellent. Celebrated my 80th Birthday two days ago and have been a Bum Fan since ’42 or ’46, I like to make a couple comments regarding some of the posts. Let me begin by stating that I like the increased analytical use and I am a fan of Bill James and his writing. I like the signing of the hitting coaches Van Scoyoc and Brown. I also read Passan’s “THE ARM”. The only problem with The ARM is I see it leading to bionic arms and not just repaired arms. The shift, DH and electronic calling of balls and strikes are minor compared to a pitcher who can toss at 110 mph. The current WS Winning Drought is far less than the Brooklyn days of winning the NL and losing to the Yanks.

Roberts is still learning to be a good manager of the game; he seems to be a good manager of players. In Friedman I trust … hope that trust is rewarded!!! I would not mind just some minor signing this winter and get Trout next year. This team is the beginning of another Dodger Dynasty like the Pee Wee -Jackie one and like the Garvey one … may we be the boys of summer again!

Now to some of my favorite comments, as I remember them, in the replies.

1. Without the steroids, this is a young man’s game! Smart GMs have figured this out and we now see how the game has changed, and not necessarily for the better.

2. I am afraid of Pollack and DJLM because of age and their history of injuries.

3. Turner Ward preached working the count. Frequently, the best pitch you will see is the first one. Be ready to hit it and with two strikes, quit swinging from the heels. Seager…He is a notorious 1st ball swinger. (However, JT is great at working the count once he has two strikes.)

4. Dodgerrick comments and his 13 points concerning the way the game has changed are true but that is what is happening. The problem is that baseball is changing and becoming more like basketball when only the last five minutes count. I love 1-0 and 4-3 games, rally caps and a close play at home plate. I disagree with only one of Dodgerrick’s points. I think a walk is just as important as a hit, especially if the runner is fast and plays with the pitcher’s concentration.

Anyway, a great post with some of the best replies ever! Thanks!

I DONT HATE FRIEDMAN AT ALL. HE HAD DONE VERY GOOD JOB. JUST A DONT “LOVE HIM BLINDLY” SO I CAN SEE HIS MISTAKES. I DONT LIKE his 100% sabermetric APPROACH. AND THE CONSTRUCTION ON A VERY BORIED TEAM IN 2017′ AND TO KEEP A NO MANAGER LIKE ROBERTS…HE DID NOT LEARND FROM 2017 WORLD SERIE MISTAKES AND DID THE SAME IN 2018

Dodgerrick that was my point. You made this move so I am excited to see the next. But, there is no next one at this point. I thought that there would but not yet. So, I can only assume that Friedman is satisfied with this move on its own. He may make other moves but we didn’t do this so we could do this. It was more like we create space and now I look for an opportunity. I personally think we will go into the season with Barnes and Maldonado or someone like him. Maybe gale who knows. We add seager and Verdugo to the lineup plus Kelley as a reliever, we can mix and match at second and the outfield with kike, Taylor, and muncy. We have better sp with buehler a full year, ryu healthy, and urias close. Then, hold your breath that seager will be ready. So, you could say Verdugo is cheaper and has upside over an erratic puig. You could make a case that this team will start the season and be better. So I think he will wait the market out and maybe not make a deal of any significance and have money at the deadline. MJ good point the Astros didn’t just change philosophy but also players.

I’m old, and I don’t like the direction baseball is taking.

When Mr. Manfred or whoever it was, signed the agreement with MGM Entertainment and MLB crawled into bed with gambling, baseball quit being the game I have loved since before I can remember.

I have always felt like baseball, more than any other U,S, professional sport (with the possible exception of ice hockey) had a sense of integrity. Not necessarily all the players, but the game itself.)

All alone, this single move has crushed that delusion.

I learned to deal with it when corporations took over all the prime seating and even nosebleed seat prices went crazy. I could still see some free TV games and listen to Vin.

However, this agreement with MGM has sucked the last breath out of the game. Rich men own the game, they own the teams, and they only want to maximize profits. Some will benefit from winning, others will benefit most by cashing in their baseball assets. They will each do what gets them the most money, and a relationship with gaming will certainly be profitable.

In that kind of environment, how can you question players who do the exact same thing? I often wonder why a player would use any agent not named Scott Boris. If it’s okay for the owners to milk every cent they can get, why not the players?

I think they should, but it’s not something that I enjoy watching.

Personally, I think AF wants to win championships. I believe he is driven to win. I also believe that he has many constraints on his passion of which I am uninformed. He is employed by an immensely wealthy corporation that is telling him what he can and cannot do.

The fact that he can apply advanced analytics to a physical game and maximize production is astounding. In my life, there have been a number of changes in the game, but this is the one that has fascinated me the most. I couldn’t wait to see how it played out.

Unfortunately, baseball’s marriage to gaming has sucked the life out of the game for me. And yes, I do know that people have always bet on baseball, but it was never officially tied to the game itself,

Mark

The Astros not only changed their philosophy about hitting, they also got rid of every all or nothing hitter in their line up, too.

Because even the best hitting instructors can’t make another Ted Williams, out of hitters that are not talented enough, and don’t put enough hard work in, to become a complete hitter.

And it is hard to try to teach hitters, and expect them, to be able to do the things they need to do, over night too.

It takes work, it takes time, and it takes the right talent or ability, to be able to be taught to be a complete hitter, and that was my point.

Our hitting instructor does agree with a couple of things in a hitter’s swing, that William has preached, but he is not an all incompassing disciple, of Williams.

And that isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but that is the truth.

I have always thought Friedman was not a complete disciple of saber metrics, because Friedman has always emphasized, that he only used sabermetrics as another tool.

And I thought that was a good thing, because that allows Friedman to see beyond one approach.

I am glad that Friedman saw that our hitters needed to change their approaches.

But remember the Astros didn’t just change their hitting philosophy, they also make some changes in their line up, and on their roster.

While I agree with most of what Mark says, I don’t agree with the following: “The worst case is that Nick puts up a monster season and the Dodgers end up with another draft pick and sign another Free Agent 3B in 2020 (pick one).” If that was the worst case it would be great, but I can envision cases that would be worse! Who is Timmonson that does the posts? Is it the same as Mark Timmons? 🙂

One more thing – about the “salary dump” question. When I first read about the “Farmer Trade”, my initial response is that it was just the 1st of what will be several interlocking transactions that will remake the Dodgers’ roster. Then I started thinking about it. What if:

1 – The Dodgers don’t decide to spend “stupid money” on Bryce Harper?

2 – The Dodgers can’t pry Kluber loose from the Indians, Realmuto loose from the Marlins, or Castellanos from the Tigers?

3 – The Dodgers agree with Mark that it’s a “young man’s game” and don’t sign the like of LeMahieu or Pollock?

4 – The Dodgers sign some broken down backup catcher and an unsuccessful starter or 2 (to turn them into relievers)and that’s the sum total of their moves in the aftermath of the Farmer Trade?

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I quote Eric Stephen of TrueBlueLA (no Friedman hater) the other day – here is his take on the issue:

“Even in taking on Bailey’s $28 million in guaranteed money, the Dodgers from a cash standpoint saved about $7 million in this trade. From a competitive balance tax standpoint, the Dodgers’ 2019 payroll decreased by roughly $16 million.

The threshold for the competitive balance tax in 2019 is $206 million. The Dodgers, should their remaining arbitration-eligible players get paid their projections, will be at roughly $185 million or so after this deal, leaving them room to maneuver.

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In reality they have as much room as they choose, with any amount over the threshold taxed at a 20-percent rate. That rate reset after the Dodgers paid a total of $150 million in competitive balance tax from 2013-17, having the highest payroll in the sport for five years running. But they stayed under the $197 million threshold in 2018 thanks to a different December trade involving Kemp, this one a five-player accounting trick with the Braves that was cash neutral but lopped roughly $24 million off the Dodgers’ CBT number last season.

This is where we are at now. The Dodgers, with their $8.3 billion (with a B) television contract while playing in the second largest market in the country, are making moves to save money.

Put another way, a two-time defending National League pennant winner traded three regulars a year away from free agency for a player they released and two prospects. This isn’t the type of moves big market teams make, unless followed up with something else.

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So – if the only moves made after the “Big Dump” are a backup catcher and a failed starting pitcher to convert to a reliever, then what are we to think of that?

If outlawing zone defenses in the NBA is good for pro basketball, would outlawing shifts in the MLB be similarly good for baseball?

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The only shift change I am okay with would be to keep infielders in the infield and thus eliminate the 4th outfielder.

So – OK, I’ll take the bait. For starters, I don’t hate Andrew Friedman.

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I dislike the direction that baseball is going and am suspicious of the non-baseball types, including Andrew Friedman, who have been handed the keys to the game of baseball and are turning it into a game that is barely recognizable:

1 – “Openers” instead of starting pitchers

2 – Starters who either can’t go more than 5 innings or aren’t allowed to

3 – An endless parade of relief pitchers

4 – 3 true outcome offensive baseball that is increasingly boring

5 – Endless platoons and matchups

6 – The mistaken belief that “a walk is as good as a hit”

7 – The belief that pitch framing is more important than actually being able to catch the baseball

8 – A different lineup every day

9 – Pitchers who don’t build up arm strength in the minors and end up with tissue paper arms

10 – Baseball front office personnel who have never actually played baseball

11 – Baseball coaches who have never actually played baseball

12 – Baseball managers who don’t really make their own decisions

13 – Computers who do actually make baseball decisions

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I could go on in the same vein but why bother? Everyone here gets the point. It’s not actually Friedman of whom I am suspicious – it is a game that is increasingly run by people like Farhan Zaidi, for example – he played Little League – that’s the extent of his baseball experience, but hey, he’s got a PhD from UC Berkeley in Economics. that makes him qualified to be the GM of a baseball team in today’s game.

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I don’t like the direction that the game is going and Andrew Friedman is at the forefront of it.

Hating Andrew Friedman is fake news! He’s da man and over time will get it right way more than get it wrong! This is a marathon not a sprint. If we don’t already have the best, he’s close to the best. Now Andrew, go make the right calls for 2019!

In Andrew We Trust….

Mark, I totally agree with your assessment of Friedman. He was given a mandate when hired and has exceeded expectations. Damn, look at the results since he has been in charge. I think many (including myself) are just so frustrated that we just can’t seem to win a World Series. Therefore, the attacks on the front office. It appears that FAZ was the person deciding lineups, pitching use, and hitting philosophy. Now that he is gone (good luck with the home run or nothing approach in SF) we’ll see if a new approach Friedman wants to use will lead to more wins and a World Series victory. We have had enough talent to win the last two years, but with players failure to execute, front office lineups that don’t make sense (really, Kike hitting 3rd in game five last year), and some head scratching moves by Roberts we have failed. I’m sure he is not done making moves and to consider the recent trade a salary dump is lunacy. Those that think that haven’t been paying attention.

I say no to Harper. Boras has been selling tangibles that Harper would bring his new team and not so much his inconsistent performance on the field. Boras knows that Harper’s stats don’t warrant a 300MM – 400MM contract so he is selling the increased attendance, larger TV contract, and increased value of the team that Harper would bring. These things aren’t needed by the Dodgers being they already lead in attendance, TV deal, and second in value I believe.

Castellanos is growing on me. His fielding doesn’t bother me. Hell, we had Matt Kemp in the outfield last year. And, it appears, he is working to improve his defense. But, he adds a needed RH with power heading into his prime.

I know it’s only one year, but that’s a worse case scenario. If he is successful then we can try to resign him. If not, we extend a QO.

And, I’m still on the Kluber trade and really in on Realmuto. His price will come down as the Marlins should know they need to trade him now or the return will only diminish. They have to know that what they are asking now is not going to happen. So, adjust expectations, get a deal done, and move on. Friedman has the patience and the necessary pieces to make it happen. I think Joc, Smith, and mid level pitching prospect should be enough when as is said and done. I mean come Miami, this isn’t Stanton, Yelich, or Ozuna we’re talking about.

Carry on.

The reason people struggle with Friedman, is that he always tends to get the “cheap” option instead of the “best” option. This may be great for the owners cash-flow, but sucks when it comes to actually winning the world series. Getting the 3rd or 4th or 5th best pitcher on the market in 2017 instead of Verlander, cost the Dodgers the world series. Nick Castalanos instead of Harper would be another example, The Guigenheim Group probably loves him, but it is understandably frustrating for fans.

I for one am not a Friedman hater!!! I am powerless over upper mgmt. decisions and I gotta go with the flow… So far the flow is pretty damn good..,

Yasmani ‘The Framer’ Grandal… Just put it to bed… Lets say he comes back!!! Two years ago it was the birth of a child and last year his wife leaving him for her maid of honor allegedly (Yikes)!!! What would it be this year???

Joc??? I don’t really care….

Muncy!!! Would you really want to see him go after 2018???

When the readers start in with their trading frenzy, I always seek AC’s input to put things in order…

Don’t forget, we have this hitting guru and his entourage in town that is going to transform the Dodgers into the 1927 Yankees…

Now if that damn Doc don’t screw thins up!!!

How’d last years “salary dump” work out for the Dodgers? Pretty good I’d say. Not bad for a guy who doesn’t know what he’s doing.

Hey, I like Friedman. No doubt one of the brightest people in the game today. Not sure where the Puig, Kemp, Wood trade is leading, but another week or two and we’ll know. Kluber? Still can’t figure out why Cleveland would want to trade him. Maybe, it’s all smoke. As to Realmutto, better to pass if the price remains high. Harper? Everybody may be looking at the whole thing wrong. Maybe ownership is driving that deal, just like they did with the Boston trade a few years ago. Ken Gurnick reports that the Dodgers are serious and aggressive about Harper. I’m sure the Dodgers would like a shorter deal and they definitely won’t go 10, but seven, maybe eight with an opt out after three. I’m guessing the owners want to make a big splash because of the competition with the Rams, Chargers and Lakers with Lebron. With this ownership group, it’s not just about baseball.

I’m not happy they traded Puig but I understand it. Castellanos has the same team control and similar arb salary projection as Puig hence giving away Puig to overpay for Castellanos would rankle me. I’d rather have Kemp than him too but that’s just me. The Farmer trade was made, time to turn a page. For anyone who thought this would be a fast process that’s not usually the case as it takes awhile for the market to form and prices to be set. Machado probably signs before Harper for example, lesser free agents like Pollock and Grandal have the draft pick and international slot money attached to them also. Trades take two to tango and if teams ask too much or players don’t line up Freidman sometimes brings a 3rd team in or just walks away. Whether the trade was just a salary dump is still not clear and won’t be until the $$ saved is invested in the team somewhere else. I will say the catcher market is getting very thin already.

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I compare what the Dodgers are trying to do to the Patriots. How do they stay on top for so long with low draft position and a salary cap? For one Brady takes less than the going rate as does Gronk. For another vet players take less to come there and compete for a ring. But the real genius is cutting loose or trading players about to cash in and replacing them with depth they have developed cheaply. They consistently hit with their mid round picks that fit their system and get coached up. They are always rebuilding while competing and always fit players into their system, not the other way around. And they have continuity at the top with Belichick and Brady. We may not like Freidmans methods at times but he is striving for a Patriots type dynasty, competing for the World Series every year. They have not won it all yet but will do so and soon on the current trajectory. It is a great time to be a Dodger fan!

Funny Bumsrap, I do not hate Friedman I applaud him for making the Dodgers one of the best franchises in baseball. The Dodgers are an enviable franchise since his takeover. The all or nothing philosophy of hitting I attribute to zaidi. I get frustrated with the regular dumb… moves of Roberts. Friedman is responsible for those 2. The bottom line is that the Dodgers have been to two World Series consecutively. That is totally difficult to do. Great job dodgers! I just think this forum gives you a chance to express your opinion informed or not. Because anyone disagrees doesn’t make them haters we still love the Dodgers. I just think the latest trade got me excited for the next move. I thought there would be one. The trade was a nothing burger designed I think to cut payroll, attitude, and give room under the cap for other moves. But yes I question why do you give ryu 18 million if your worried about money. Ryu is a quality pitcher with injury history that no one would pay 18 million for. Does that make me hate Friedman, no but I just would like to know how he decided that move. Castellanos, a one year deal for a guy who can’t field. It might make sense if they can get him cheap. Realmuto, the marlins are delirious. I still like a healthy Kluber. It is a slow market and these other teams are very competitive and have to make deals in their best interest. For those that wanted Harper he could probably been had without the ryu signing. I don’t know if the Dodgers are really in on him but I doubt it. Friedman says they need a catcher and a rh bat which Harper is neither. I readily admit I have no clue what Friedman is thinking but I am grateful that the Dodgers are a top franchise much credit to Friedman. I am also grateful that I can express my opinion and that is all that it is.

Wow Mark, that was quite the article you wrote there big fella! It almost sounds like you have a “man crush” for Friedman… just kidding! But you did make a solid case against the haters. Some people think change is a bad thing, others embrace it. There are others, who are willing to take a “wait and see” attitude, and they usually sleep better than others because of it. You can’t argue with the results… Friedman has done what he was told to do, and he has given Los Angeles a reason to cheer for the Dodgers every year! I like his body of work so far. But like every leader, he is only as good as his results take him.

BTW, I agree with your comment about Grandal, he has drank the Kool-Aide and believes he is greater than his record says he is. He is a solid catcher, but he is not a superstar catcher.

Who is this Friedman guy?