Andrew Toles has a great story – out of baseball, stocking groceries and back to baseball. From the outhouse to the penthouse and even after that he has endured even more adversity in the form of injury. However, he apparently is healthy and ready to contribute. I am going to make the case that he can contribute to the Dodgers success in the biggest way by playing CF and leading off… everyday. Yes, he hits right-handers better, but he has been given little opportunity against LH pitching. In a small sampling, he has a .351 OB% against RHP and .250 against LH pitching. He deserves a shot. He has the speed to leadoff and help manufacture runs and he also has the speed to play CF.
The fact of the matter is that he has only played CF 15 times in the majors. He has also started 16 games as the leadoff hitter. So, it’s not like he hasn’t played there. FAZ likes the long ball and, while not a slugger, Toles can hit the ball out of the park with power. Part of the Dodgers problems this year have been the inability to hit with RISP. It’s because they have too many “all-or-nothing” players like Joc, Cody, Yasmani, CT3 and Kike. They can make the chicks dig them with the long ball, but they move air liken a giant fan with their whiffs.
Playing Toles in CF and Verdugo is RF would help the “all-or-nothing” mentality. Since Puig is injured, I would play Alex in RF and Andrew in CF – the solution to the Dodgers problems could be right under their nose. Alex went 2-4 and scored 3 runs last night for OKC and is hitting .350 with a .916 OPS. I think both players are ready and they are both different types of hitters than the Dodgers normally play. Adding some guys with On Base Skills surely can’t hurt… and they don’t require a trade.
The bullpen is getting better…. and better, and while you never have enough arms, the bullpen could be fine with internal fixes (Ryu, Urias, et al). The Dodgers team ERA is now #1 in the National League and will soon be #2 in MLB behind the Astros. The Dodger starters are #2 in baseball… only thye Astros are better. Yes, the pen is getting better, but another good arm would not hurt.
It should not be lost on anyone that the 2018 Dodgers are the fastest team since 1955 to go from 10 games under .500 to 10 games over .500.
Discussion (80)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Brooklyn and MJ – What happened to giving Toles (could have been Verdugo) 30 games out of the gate vs. lefty or righty??? Until that happens we won’t know squat IMO…
Did you see the Silver Fox shred those bases!??!
No to the DH – Let mgr’s manage… Don’t ban the shift – Teach/Learn to bunt… I can’t recall it being that difficult and you could walk to 1B like Harper!!
I didn’t watch last night’s game but I did check in every once in awhile on Gameday. I noticed Jansen never reached 91 MPH last night.
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Also in reviewing highlights this morning it is clear that if it were not for Upton’s poor defense, the Dodgers would not have had a chance to win last night. Upton should have caught both Grandal’s and Toles doubles.
MJ, this is not over 4 games, it’s a long term opinion I’ve held. But believe what you want, it’s your prerogative.
MJ, let’s not get emotional. I do not have it in for Toles, and today’s observations have nothing to do with Toles’ performance today.
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I don’t know exactly when I posted it, but I previously made a similar observation of Toles’’ problem with low and in breaking balls.
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Just because someone says something negative about a player you like doesn’t mean that they have something in for that player. It’s just a different opinion, something we’re all entitled to.
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And if you have a lesser opinion of Verdugo than I do, then that’s your prerogative. Sometimes people have to just agree to disagree.
I’ve noticed the control problem as well. I wonder if the control problem is the result of Kenley losing confidence in his stuff, leading him to be more tentative about throwing strikes. Might be nibbling more.
Terrible baserunning by Toles, but that’s not what bothers me about him. I still believe that he has a hole with the low and in breaking ball. However, after watching him today, I am beginning to wonder if breaking balls in general are a problem for him. No doubt that he can hit the fastball (the double was off a fastball). Beyond that I’m not so sure. In fact, if Verdugo is not included in a deal for Machado, or any other deal, then he should be called up to replace Toles.
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I think I mentioned this in a previous post. Kenley Jansen is no longer dominant. Strikeouts are way down from previous years. Hitters are making contact against him at an increasing rate, and sometimes, like tonight, it’s hard contact.
I never have agreed more, Jansen is not right and this patchwork bullpen will not lead us anywhere in the second half. I understand the organizational philosophy about going all in but there is a lot of Up and coming teams in the NL and this year’s opportunity may not come again. Nl is for the taking.
Was woodard or toles asleep on that play or both?
Also playing with 24 today hurt
Machado and Barraclough. Might as well add Steckenrider.
Dodgers 2 for 14 with RISP, left 11 on base. You won’t win often with these numbers.
….and CT3 did hit a HR to tie the game at 3-3 but good gawd he K’d on a pitch in the middle of the LH batters box with Grandal at 2B. Hit the freaking ball to the right side and get him to 3B. All this talk about what to do with CT3 if Machado is acquired, but really who cares just get Manny and sort it out.
Dumb baserunning play by Toles – he should be on 3B!
Dodgers get 2 on in the 8th with 1 out and don’t score.
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Taylor K’s again with RISP.
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It’s sad.
Slap hitter Cody Bellinger, don’t like it.
All-star starter matt kemp!
I think rich hill could be a weapon out of the pen in the postseason.
7th inning again, may e patchwork bullpen not going to work. How about the FO get off their arses and make a move, needed!!!
Floro rhymes with morrow.
94 with sink
Logan Forsythe taking his prep work seriously for being this years mike davis in the playoffs. No bat at all.
Anybody care to explain why DR took Muncy (our leading hitter vs LHP) out of the 2nd slot and replaced him with Kike who is hittting ONE HUNDRED POINTS LOWER. So Kike Ks on three pitches the last one looking.
Bums,
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I would like the fastest player on the team to be the CF.
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Speed kills!
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The routes will come.
I prefer to have a defensive catcher that hits okay but not so good that he is a 3, 4, or 5 spot. They get beat up and tired.
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If the Dodgers traded for Machado, Turner returns to the lineup, and Muncey stays at second, then stats suggest that Joc and Taylor would platoon in RF and Puig and Hernandes would platoon in RF. Puig, Kemp, Toles, Pederson, Taylor, Hernandez would all have to stay relevant by being one big platoon.
Forsythe batting 5th today. Why, oh, why?
If healthy, is this a lineup that could work?
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1. Toles CF (L)
2. Muncy 2B (L, but hits LH pitching)
3. Kemp LF (R)
4. Bellinger 1B (L)
5. Turner 3B (protection behind Bellinger) (R)
6. Verdugo RF (L)
7. Taylor SS (R)
8. Grandal/Barnes C – (L/R)
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I like that balanced lineup.
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Trade Joc (his value is good right about now) and a couple of prospects for the relief pitcher needed.
Mark I agree Muncy is ok for us at 2nd base,after all we can’t have all stars at every position.
Let me ask a question and I really don’t know the answer:
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Is Muncy that bad at 2B?
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What I have seen, does not convince me he is a horrid 2B?
Gennett is from Cincinnati and the locals would revolt if they traded him.
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He is good, but his BAIP is unsustainable. He will regress, but he’s still solid.
A starting pitcher pitches once every 5 games, maybe 33 if healthy all year. A position player plays most games, hopefully 145 or more. With Kershaw on the DL the last couple of years the Dodgers were okay, but with Seager out all year, that has been a near disaster for LAD. If it were not for Matt Kemp and Max Muncy, the team would be battling the Pads for last in the NL West. To make matters worse, JT has been hurt all year even when he is in the lineup. That is your #2 and #3 hitters out for most of the year, and they are 10 games over .500.
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Yes, Doc overmanages on occasion, but between FAZ and Doc, LAD has put together a contending team without perhaps their two best hitters in the lineup for most of the year. I am already on record saying that the Dodgers should get a lockdown reliever. As eye opening as Dylan Floro has been thus far, he has not done it on a sustained basis. Outside of his family and friends, nobody is a bigger fan of Caleb Ferguson than me. But he is certainly untested under fire in September. Kenley is looking more mortal than immortal this year. Billy Beane says the A’s will be buyers this year, so Treinen is out. That leaves Kyle Barraclough, Drew Steckenrider, as the two I would target, with Kirby Yates, Jared Hughes and David Hernandez a distant Plan B, and Shane Greene an even more distant Plan C. Raisel Iglesias will cost way too much, and is not as effective as Barraclough or Steckenrider. Nether Steckenrider (15 G, 13.1 IP) or Barraclough (11 G, 11 IP) have allowed a run against any other team in the NL West. In fact Barraclough has not allowed a hit against the other 4 teams. An interesting point is that Steckenrider has only allowed a run against 3 teams; Braves (10), Brewers (5), and LAD (1). Keep him away form the Braves and Brewers he has been lights out. Unfortunately the Dodgers will be playing both teams in the 2nd half and may meet them in the playoffs.
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But it will probably be someone akin to Adam Conley who was okay in a much more limited role against SF, SD, and Rox, but not as good against the DBacks. FAZ will put more faith in Baez, Cingrani, and Fields than the others, even with the injuries. And we know Doc loves Baez.
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Offensively, the Dodgers are hurting without Seager and a healthy JT. Puig’s numbers are dramatically better as the #8 hitter. It is not even close. RISP – The only batter with a BA greater than .275 is Kemp (.441). Joc and Yasmani are next at .275, Muncy at .262, CT3 at .260, and Kike’ at .255. The rest are Puig (.242), JT (.226), Forsythe (.212), Belli (.172), and Barnes (.125).
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Compare that to the 5 middle infielders that have been linked to LAD.
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Machado – .352/.443/.563/1.007
Jose Iglesias – .315/.350/.411/.761
Eduardo Escobar – .356/.422/.678/1.100
Asdrubal Cabrera – .277/.347/.477/.824
Brian Dozier – .217/.280/.361/.641 – No thank you very much.
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Any of the 1st three will be a big difference in the lineup. Iglesias’ glove alone also would help quite a bit. But I would prefer Machado at the right price.
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The Dodgers need a bat in the #3 slot other than JT, and that is Machado. That will also help the rest of the lineup. Escobar usually bats #4 for the Twins, but Iglesias is down in the #7 slot.
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As much improved as Joc has been, he still should not start with a LHSP. Against LHP – .118/.139/.176/.315. And Barnes should play over Grandal against LHP.
Grandal – .210/.324/.306/.631 — Barnes – .257/.353/.324/.677.
If you do not use the numbers, why keep them.
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I think the Dodgers would be favored to get to the WS with Machado and Barraclough. I am not as confident with Forsythe at 2B and Floro as the 8th inning setup. But what will be the cost?
I don’t remember who but someone here said Gennett doesn’t hit LHP very well. In the two years he has been with the Reds and in 212 AB’s he is hitting .278. That would place him 3rd behind Muncy and Kemp this year.
I would love to have Scooter Gennett but from what I’ve read the Reds are not making him available unless completely blown away with an offer and we all know what that means. I’m perfectly ok with Muncy @ 2B as long as he keeps hitting. Even if we did get Gennett where would Muncy play?
The 3 positions that typically have players with the most speed are CF, 2nd base, and SS. Seager and Muncey are slower than average for their positions as is Joc when he is in CF. But, by all means, let’s ignore having speed at SS and 2nd and put a player in CF because he is faster.
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This is coming from someone that likes speed. But still, geez. So, let’s play Joc over Kemp in LF because he is faster.
I believe both drew Jackson and Dylan Bannon played 2b last night. That position is wide open for the future.
Damn it, you guys make me do this.
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“Joc has all or nothing swing”. Really? you are living in the past. Get current with your observations.
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“Joc strikes out too much”. Really? Joc has the lowest K rate on the team at 15%. Taylor and Belli are 27% and 24%.
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“Joc can’t hit WRISP” Really? Those stats were just posted in the last thread. Joc was 2nd to Kemp for a minimum of 50 opportunities with a line of .275 .361 .412 .772.
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Joc’s slumps drive me crazy too but let’s not make up shit to support a take.
Answers to some of Mark’s comments.
1 Electronic Balls and Strikes. The umpire behind home plate calls everything else.
2 The DH is Uniform Throughout All of Baseball, yes.
3 Shifts are Banned, yes. Pitchers have enough advantage they don’t need more.
4 Verdugo in RF and Toles in CF, ( and they play every day) something the Dodgers need to do now.
Two more
1 One pitching change per inning should help the offense.
2 Let’s have a pinch runner for a hitter already on base, but the hitter remains in the game and if his team batted around and he is due up again, he hits. the pinch runner can be used again. Each team will have up to 3 chances per game to use this rule. Also, the pinch runner or pinch runners can also be used as a pinch hitter but at that time they either go into the game or they are out for the remainder of the game. Pitchers don’t hit but they stay in the game until they are pulled, the same can apply to base runners.
I think both Verdugo and Toles could help this team a lot.
But I think Verdugo has better bat to ball skills then Toles does, although Toles doesn’t strike out at a high rate either.
But I think Toles is to good, when runners are in scoring position, and especially with two outs, to be a lead off hitter, although he has proved he could lead off.
And I don’t think Verdugo is quite as good, when runners are in scoring position, so he might be a better lead off hitter.
But I don’t expect Puig to be out that long, so I don’t see this happening at this point, especially with the Allstar break, right around the corner.
I think Puig is doing everything he can right now to get healthy, because it looked like he was just beginning to have a better strategy, and a better batting stance, to help him hit lefties, more effectively.
So I imagine he is very frustrated and because of that, he is probably sticking to his program, so that he can get back on the field, as quickly as he can.
Do you give up a ton of prospects for Manny minus Seager and a bum Turner, or sign him in the offseason with a healthy Seager and Turner, with the prospects?
Close your eyes for two weeks then open them to see our surprise
We need a professional hitter in the middle of this lineup. JT was it but I’m not sure he’s totally healthy. Seager was it but he’s out. Taylor strikes out too much. Cody strikes out too much. Joc strikes out too much. Grandal strikes out too much. Manny would definitely fit that bill, although there’d be a lot of shuffling happening upon his arrival.
I’d love be a fly on the wall in the war room, and see which position/which player our guys feel is the biggest need. Bullpen 8th inning guy? Ace? Middle of the order bat? Or another Granderson/Jim Johnson/Bud Norris type?
Top five surprises of 2018:
1. Muncy
2. Stripling
3. Kemp
4. Ferguson
5. No name bullpen
Chase Utley Pete Rose that was baseball.
Shout out to Chase Utley… It seemed only a couple years ago, that I would run over to Long Beach Poly HS and watch him and his team play… I had really hoped he would go over to the Long Beach State Dirtbags program so he’d be closer to my home…
Chase plays today like he played at Poly and that was with hustle and grit… He’ll make a fine coach if he wishes after a little stay at home parenting..
With Floro, Ferguson, Alexander looking good and a healthy Cingrani, Ryu, Urias on the horizon I can certainly see the Dodgers adding Zach Britton and Manny Machado. The Dodgers offense needs another bat and Machado could be the “straw that stirs the drink.”
Make it so FAZ!!