Well I got my hopes up earlier in the week when Rob Manfred met face to face with Tony Clark and “reached a framework that could form the basis of an agreement” for a 2020 restart with full prorated play. On June 17, the twitter world was all abuzz about this pending “deal”.
Jon Heyman
Breaking: MLB and players union are closing in on an agreement to play the 2020 season, via players. Deal expected to be for prorated pay and include expanded playoffs.
As part of the pending agreement to play the 2020 season between MLB and the players union, the union has agreed to waive any grievance.
Evan Drellich
Major League Baseball sent a new proposal for the 2020 season to the Major League Baseball Players Association a short while ago, sources say.
Source says no deal is close yet between MLB and MLBPA because the proposal was just sent by MLB. No agreement even in principle at this point.
Buster Olney
Sources: The owners’ latest offer to the PA is for 60 games, full pro-rata, starting July 19.
Bob Nightengale
The MLB playoffs would expand from 10 teams to 16 teams under the new proposal.
Jon Heyman again
Owners also agree to $25M player playoff pool plus $33M in salary forgiveness for players already fronted part of $170M advance so min. $ guys wouldn’t return for no $. So in effect players get >100% prorated. In any case some players view latest as only proposal, not agreement
Joel Sherman wrote an article where he offered that MLB would like to sell advertisements on team uniforms this season and next to accrue additional revenue. Just great, NASCAR comes to MLB.
Hold Your Horses – Tony Clark later offered the following statement:
“In my discussions with Rob in Arizona we explored a potential pro rata framework, but I made clear repeatedly in that meeting and after it that there were a number of significant issues with what he proposed, in particular the number of games. It is unequivocally false to suggest that any tentative agreement or other agreement was reached in that meeting.”
MLBPA never conceded that there was an agreement, only the framework of a proposal. MLBPA countered the 60 game proposal with a 70 game proposal, and the owners apparently got a little miffed at a counter proposal. As far as they were concerned, Manfred was supposed to get MLBPA to accept a 60 game proposal.
Clark later clarified the dust up with MLBPA’s counterproposal by indicating that it wasn’t just MLBPA’s opinion that they MLB was expecting a counterproposal:
“In fact, in conversations within the last 24 hours, Rob invited a counterproposal for more games that he would take back to the owners. We submitted that counterproposal today.”
Apparently Manfred acknowledged that their plan was simply a proposal and that he in fact did invite MLBPA to present a counterproposal. Although he did indicate that if the proposal was for 70 games, it would be “an impossible figure to fit in without extending play”.
Manfred has since clarified indicating that MLB will not consider any schedule over 60 games, and have rejected the counterproposal. He says there will be no additional counterproposal. Of course he has said that before.
On June 18, Manfred said that “This needs to be over”. Was he referring to the negotiations, the spat being played out in the media, or some other form of reference? Per Manfred…
“I don’t know what Tony and I were doing there for several hours going back and forth and making trades if we weren’t reaching an agreement.”
June 19th brought another wrinkle to the potential rising of the phoenix. Five Phillies players and three staff members have tested positive for Coronavirus from their Clearwater, FL facility. Toronto also shut down their Dunedin, FL because one of their players on the 40 man displayed symptoms (no positive test) after spending time with players in the Phillies system. Dunedin and Clearwater are next door to each other (4.1 miles apart).
The Giants have also closed their Scottsdale ST facilities due to coronavirus concerns. Apparently one person at the facility and one family member have displayed mild symptoms and were tested. The test results are not yet known.
As a result of three facilities being shut down, MLB is now considering closing all 30 facilities. Per Joel Sherman:
Source: with 3 camps having to close today due to COVID-19, MLB is strongly considering closing all 30 camps again to cleanse and re-establish a system in which players will test regularly when they return. Right now there is not a firm protocol for players using the facilities.
Done: Per Bob Nightengale, as of right now, all 30 teams have their facilities shut down. No player or staff will be permitted in the facility unless they have tested negative to the coronavirus.
As a minimum, I am now of the opinion,
- MLB and MLBPA should quit the fighting through the media and refocus their efforts and try to establish a real framework for the next CBA, behind the scenes…out of the public’s eye. Manfred and Clark should exit, and adults only should be invited to the discussions. No leaks, no press.
- Manfred should be fired by the owners as soon as the season is cancelled. He has proven to be as incompetent of a Commissioner as MLB has ever experienced. He makes Bud Selig look skilled and knowledgeable. He has botched everything from trivial game changes to save 2 minutes a game; to the Astros cheating scandal; Red Sox cheating scandal; and now the alleged cover up of the New York Yankees cheating. And of course the current restart negotiations for 2020 have been an unmitigated disaster. He is a mere puppet looking for a way to salvage his legacy. Rob, it’s too late to salvage anything.
- Player agents should be told to butt out of the negotiations. They can negotiate on their clients’ behalf, but the union will be negotiating for the Player Association, of which player agents are not a member. Scott Boras does not care for any player that is not his client. And why should he? But then he does not deserve a seat at the table for negotiations on behalf of 1,200 players (30 teams 40 man roster). And baseball journalists who actually care about the health of the sport should cease asking Scott his opinion of the ongoing negotiations.
- MLB and MLBPA should be reminded that it is the fans who pay, either through the gate, merchandise, food concessions, parking, and of course through advertising. TV and radio deals are a little more tricky because they have fixed contracts, but if viewership drops, so will future TV revenues. Likewise with radio network advertising. It is not as important for 2020 as it should be for the foundation of the new CBA. Somebody needs to represent the fans, and that should be the commissioner who is responsible for “the good of the game”. And that is not Pinocchio (Rob Manfred).
- The season should be cancelled, and the ST facilities should be thoroughly cleaned. Current MiLB players and signed draft picks and undrafted free agents should report to Arizona and focus on their development. The organizations should concentrate on their testing and re-testing protocols. Let the MiLB players play amongst the other teams in the area. My guess is that there will be sufficient interest to house and play a number of MiLB players who do not fear the virus. For those players and staff who do not want to take the chance, they should be allowed to opt out without any negative consequences.
- I would allow teams to begin to negotiate with their own players, beginning from season cancellation date to September 1. After September 1, teams can continue to negotiate with their team controlled player personnel, but free agents can begin to negotiate with other teams.
I personally have zero desire to see the implementation of a 50 game season. That is not an MLB season, but more of a glorified seeding for a 16-team playoffs. That really does not interest me. I love baseball, and I will be back just as strong and excited in 2021. I will miss the game, but I will find other things to do. The implementation of a 50 game season is nothing more than an ego massage for Rob Manfred.
If the two sides had worked diligently from the March Agreement, decisions (compromises) could have been made by adult negotiators who thought more about the long-term effect of the game, instead of their own selfish desires.
The leadership of the game has failed with this unprecedented situation. Could they (should they) have done something different? In the end, I doubt it. But the plug should have been pulled long ago without the consistent and perpetual infighting. It’s akin to pulling of a band-aid. Pull it of fast and the sting goes away quicker, or pull it off slowly and the pain will persist. Most fans would have been initially upset, but we would have accepted it. Now we fans have been soured mostly because of the immature negotiations between billionaires and millionaires.
MLB is different than the NBA and the NHL. Those seasons were winding down and just needed to put a bow on them with the playoffs. And yet there remains a lot of concerns with Orlando and the NBA. Now one of the NHL teams (Tampa Bay Lightning) had to shut down their training facilities due to multiple players (3) and staff members (2) testing positive for COVID-19. MLB has not yet started, and IMO should not at this point. It will sting, and it may take a few years (like the last time), but the fans will return.
It’s time to change the players, and I am not speaking of those guys on the field.
Discussion (56)
Disagree, not disagreeable
i think that if all states had shut down effectively as Washington, New York, and Michigan have, we would be in pretty good shape. But very few did, and some of those opened up too soon. This is an opinion simply based on data we are seeing. Most us live in Los Angeles, and i am appalled at what I see; so many people not wearing masks, talking to people a foot away, now sitting together in restaurants and acting as there was no risk at all. How can they be so foolish and selfish? They will never control this unless and until there is a very effective vaccine, and then it has to be distributed. Maybe his will happen by next year, but if it does not, we will be no better off than now.
Back to baseball, I would also like to see it played. But there are so many roadblocks to not only starting, but actually continuing to finish whatever short season they agree on. I concur with Jeff D. in that I have no real interest in seeing 50 games with reconstituted divisions, and then an expanded playoff. This is even worse than what the NBA has done for decades. They might as well just skip the baseball regular season and go right to the playoffs. And what will winning a title mean? Not very much. An 80-game season and a regular playoffs might have been okay; after all, this has happened a couple of times. But this has gone on too long now. If they are worried about health, as they should be, then just cancel the season ,and somehow try to work out an agreement for next year. If they play this gimmick season now, and then have a lockout next year, many fans will stop following the sport, it wouldn’t be worth it. I know it is a cliche, but the owners and players in all sports are so in love with their own money and fame that they really do nothing more than pay lip service to the fans, without whom there would be no pro sports at all. Fans are not a bunch of suckers who fantasize about being sports stars or billionaires, and just want to bask in their reflected glory. The fans have always come back, but it is not a guarantee, not at previous levels of commitment.
Happy Father’s Day to all you dads out there. Just spent a wonderful day with my nearly 21 year old daughter, whom I haven’t seen in 6 months. She was stuck in the US waiting out the pandemic, and just flew back to Holland to spend the summer here. Makes you appreciate them even more when you can’t see them. She insisted on observing social distance until she gets her Covid test result back. Didn’t want to infect us. Couldn’t be more proud of her!
I want baseball back. I don’t care if it’s a 10 game season, followed by a 30 team playoff schedule. A ring is a ring, and we’re good enough to win it all in 162, 100, or 10 game seasons.
Health is a different matter. But if the health aspects are figured out, then “play ball!!”
No vote today but the owners are amending their offer and the vote will take place later this week. They want to reach a deal.
They have to!
Just stopping in to say hello to all you fellow walking antiques. Hello to all others who may fit in any other category. I’ve tried several times to put in a reply but didn’t click ‘post comment’ because I’m not viewing things with a lot of optimism. The future ain’t what it used to be, as if it ever was, but it wasn’t so Soylent Green. In that movie Edward G. Robinson stated he was born in 1954 which put the time frame fairly close. But the parallels end there…..well? This could really be only the start for this pandemic and baseball might be at an end with it’s biggest fan base born near 1954 all dying off. I’ve always been told “you have an overactive imagination” so sorry for the gloom but it’s June so Hello all and play-ball!
Joel Sherman has an article out which basically says there are front office people, agents and players who aren’t on board with obstinance being shown by both sides in the negotiations. Problem is that their voices are being overcome by the others. Basically he’s saying that neither side is as united as they both would like to have everyone think they are.
There are some people in the game who realize that coming together here is far more important to the future of the game than winning this one battle and taking no prisoners.
https://nypost.com/2020/06/21/mlbs-best-hope-is-for-the-silent-majority-to-rise-up-sherman/
Baseball is not being played because Covid 19 is highly contagious and dangerous. Covid 19 is a pandemic because it hasn’t been mitigated early and consistently. Give it free reign and many will suffer and more will die. Hospitals were overrun and caretakers were overworked and while almost getting back to normal, it is happening again where states have overly relaxed mitigation. Whether 60,000 or 120,000 people have died from Covid 19, let’s agree that number could have been reduced and the future doesn’t have to repeat it.
I am very comfortable shopping at Costco because everybody wears a mask.
MLBPA has decided to hold their vote on the 60 game schedule today after all. There will be 38 votes; 8 from the executive committee and one representative for each team. The executive committee is expected to unanimously reject the proposal. The executive committee (led by Max Scherzer) seems very hostile to the entire negotiations. And the vibe is that the players as a group will reject it.
“…all who get this thing will be scarred.”
That’s a new one, ALL will be scarred, you mean emotionally, physically? I think you have to consider the source when quoting such absolutes.
“Knowledge, science and life experience must all be considered when managing a problem, emotions aren’t reality, emotions typically confuse and deceive” –Truth vos Hurts
Yes, Happy Fathers Day to you all on this board
HAPPY FATHER’S DAY UPDATE IMAGE ABOVE
Carson Taylor (our 4th rounder) signs for $400k. Slot value was $434k so we have a little more to add to the Vogel-Beeter fund.
In March Harvard epidemiologist Marc Lipsitch said 40-70% of Americans would be infected with this virus. I quoted him here and got little response. I said then I thought he was right and I still think he’s right. OBVIOUSLY most will recover, but all who get this thing will be scarred.
I’m reading article after article that points out a certain faction of this country is telling us to not believe the scientists and that the media is our enemy. I’m stuck here wondering how the hell does one reason with the unreasonable? I have not found that way yet. I don’t know who first said it but know this to be true – suffering is to resist what is.
I have stuff to to do so I’ll leave you this morning with this:
“To acquire knowledge, one must study;
but to acquire wisdom, one must observe.”
― Marilyn vos Savant
One final thing on the effect of social distancing and quarantining the elderly in hospitals or nursing homes. What effect does that have on the death rate? Humans are much more than statistics and being isolated from loved ones when ill can cause some people to just give up. Human interaction is important to recovery from any disease, physical or mental. I believe that loneliness and isolation have played a big part in the death rate.
Also, to put the death rate at 5.2% is silly. Many health experts think the infection rate is at least 10X what is known. I believe when it is all said and done, it will be under 0.5%!
Well, they say, “It ain’t over till it’s over!” The next week or two will tell whether there is a season or not, and we aren’t privy to what’s going on behind the scenes. From where I sit, it sure looks like a bunch of selfish, incompetent people doing the negotiating. But if they will reach an agreement is anyone’s guess. We’ll know soon enough. Either way, we’ll all survive, even if there is no baseball this year. If there is one thing this corona situation has shown me, it’s to be grateful for what you have. If you are healthy, have people you care about and vice versa, and can keep a roof over your head, you are among the lucky ones on this earth. Many people don’t have these things, especially now.
Going to be offline for a couple of days. With all this idiocy going on around this country, I am heading to the hills. Gonna fish, catch some zzzzzz’s and just relax. Nut jobs in Cali pulled down and defaced a statue of U.S. Grant. A General who defeated Lee’s army and battled the KKK during his presidency. No sense of history or knowledge of it either. Pure lunacy.
I do not think any of us are privy to what the owners are telling Manfred, but we do have a better idea of what the players are telling Tony Clark. I have heard that there are 6-8 teams who absolutely do not want to play in 2020 because they will lose more money by playing than not playing. Maybe other teams could subsidize them, but I don’t see that happening. I am ambivalent about Rob Manfred because I do not know what the owners are telling him.
I am biased to a degree because as a business owner, I have sacrificed and paid employees when I could not pay myself. I have been evicted, had a car re-possessed, had utilities shut-off, IRS sweeps of my bank account, and through it all, my employees were always paid… and paid well.
All of that is in the rear-view mirror. I have a booming business and life is good. I have a large number of people who have been with me for 10-15 years. We pay them well, they get holiday pay and paid personal leave, profit-sharing, 401(k), health insurance and a great place to work, but I am not going to share profits with them (beyond our ordinary plan). I took all the risk – they had none. Does that make me greedy?
For many years, I worked 70-80 -90 hours a week and it was my ass on the line and my signature on the loans. My wife and I are entrepreneurs by nature and choice. We risked it all, so now 20 years later, we are reaping the benefits. My son told me yesterday “Dad, I guess when I was a kid, that we were poor. I never felt poor – I thought we were rich.” I said that we were never poor – we were always rich, but just did not have any money. Money does not make you rich and lack of it does not make you poor.
There are not many teams who make a lot of money right now, but the value of the team and a subsequent sale is were they can make a lot of money (i.e, Frank McCourt). The Wilpons are trying to sell, but it is a limited market. Not many people can pull that off. Christopher Ilitch now owns the Tigers, but his dad tried and tried to buy a championship before he died and could not do it. The A’s, Giants, Angels, Orioles, TB, and Pittsburgh are all likely for sale. Good luck with that.
I think a day of reckoning is coming in baseball. The long, guaranteed contracts have driven up prices immensely. It is very difficult to go to a game and not spend $150 or more a person. Maybe that’ works in football (where there is a salary cap and 16 games) or in basketball (where there is a cap on what players can make and 82 games with only 12 players) but in baseball, with 162 games and guaranteed contracts, it’s generally not a business where the average team turns a huge profit. I think this pandemic has devalued every franchise and some may not weather the storm.
The Oakland A’s may be worth a Billion (I doubt it), but good luck in finding a buyer right about now. MLB teams are having difficulty right about now. Some owners are bleeding the team – I get that, but it’s their business… and it is a business. Fortunately, the Dodgers are well-run… the Angels? Not so much!
The owners are not going to budge off of 60 games and Dr. Fauci has said the season should be over by September, so they can point to that… even if we all know it’s because of the large monetary losses each game, for some teams.
I think there will be a lockout and maybe no baseball in 2021… or at least a very shortened season. I think the players should take the 60 games and get ready to play this year. MLB will give them 60 games and the playoffs. Next year, the owners will try and restore some sanity to the process and there will have to be more revenue sharing, min/max salary caps, and maybe even some changes in guaranteed contracts. The negotiations this year will look like a lovefest compared to next year.
COVID-19 is something that players are going to get and professional leagues are ready and able to manage it. It’s very difficult to interpret the data right now, especially case fatality rate (CFR). While it is true that cases are spiking in some areas, death rates are dropping, even though testing is increasing dramatically. It may be a year or more before we have reasonably good data on the CFR. When there are financial incentives attached to listing the cause of death as “COVID-19” the statistics are not totally reliable.
I still think they will play. If they don’t this might kill baseball – we won’t have to wait another year for it to happen.
Terrific post Jeff. Very informative and well thought out. Manfred and Clark are a joke but both sides are equally guilty and the big loser will be baseball (the fans). I see no chance for a 2020 season for a number of reasons.
Why bother training and gearing up for 50 games and then a phony playoff? 50 games is a joke. The squabbles over money fall on deaf ears with Joe and Jane Public.
My second concern is the health of the players which gets lost with negotiations taking center stage. I mentioned previously that the number of cases and potential for getting the virus will make players stay away and facilities unable to host players. And my information about the severity of the virus in Arizona was met here with doubt and scorn by some for being “political”, fake, inaccurate or manipulated. (The Moon Landing was faked, Elvis and Hitler lived together in Argentina) So, if you share that idea on the virus, save your breath in responding to me or just move on.
But here are the “facts” as I see them in Arizona from the US Coronavirus site:
On June 1 there were 20,00 cases reported and 917 deaths.
On June 20, there are 49,796 cases and 1338 deaths
That looks like a spike to me.
So, maybe the numbers are not 100% accurate but I don’t know how anyone can deny that there is a big problem.
With the recent cases showing up in Florida and these numbers in Arizona there is absolutely no way the players, minor leaguers included, should or would report to these training sites.
The Arizona Governor is already taking heat for the spike in cases from some who feeling he reopened up restaurants and bars too early and relaxed restrictions. It would be interesting to see if he would agree to opening team facilities.
With 50 game proposal, is the risk-reward worth it? Not to me.
I like the suggestion that it’s time to pull the plug on 2020 and start negotiations without Clark and Manfred, on a new agreement for 2021. Even then I’m not sure irreparable damage hasn’t been done to MLB. But I remember making that boycott threat in 94.
I suggested many years ago that there needed to be a “National Fan Association” to give the fanbase a seat at the negotiations table. My thought, half in jest, was I’d be a great representative. While I’m lobbying for that job anymore, it might be time for the ultimate victims to have a say. Right now, I’m ready to vote with my feet.
At last we got to see a Mookie Betts hit a walk off….Never mind.
Got to laugh. MLB wants 60 games, the players 70. And they can’t reach agreement. Shows the farce this has become.
Soccer, which is now up and running again here in the Uk had exactly the same problems about a month back, when the players first reported back for training.
All the players were tested, and a number were found to be infected although they were showing no symptoms.
They had to Self Isolate for a week before being tested again. They could only train in small groups to begin with, before the size of the groups increased until everyone was involved.
It seems the US is about 3 weeks behind us in this battle. Don’t give up yet as I remember thinking that those early positive tests would be the final nail – that wasn’t the case. We are up and running, and although certainly not perfect, I’m really enjoying watching LIVE sport.
These are teething problems. Hopefully MLB will persevere – Baseball will be a welcome distraction.
You will be amazed how different things will seem in 2/3 weeks if you guys follow the same path as the Uk.
Well written and thought out AC! With the new COVID “circumstances” being reported in the training camps, I believe that might be the nail in the coffin for this season. It certainly gives, for better or worse, the owners the opportunity to “save face” if the season is now cancelled.
What are the new Yankees accusations? Where did you read them?
Very disappointing news. Agree with your points, AC. I wonder if we can impeach Manfred and Tony Clark. On a more positive note, I want to wish all you fathers on this site a Happy Father’s Day. Enjoy it.
I’m in agreement with everyone here.
Very coherent point of view Jeff. I’ve thought this is where we were headed for a long time but I could not have articulated as well as you just did.
If these new Yankee accusations of cheating are true and they are from 2017 I would change and be in favor of awarding that title to the Dodgers. Previously I thought the Yankees had a case as well. I hope they play this year but I would maybe put more value on a 2017 championship than a 60 game 2020 championship which would have it own asterisk.
Totally agree, and the idea that the CBA should be negotiated now and implemented in 2021 is a great idea. Clark and Manfred are inept and should be replaced. But, we all know Manfred is the owners perfect mouth piece so he is going no where. As for this season, there is no hope for what anyone would call a real compromise. To me anything less than 100 games is just a motion of futility. Baseball is made for the long haul. And personally, I am tired of the whole dance. There are other things I can occupy my time with.
Well articulated Jeff. Thanks for being a voice of reason.
A bunch you you all went thru nostalgic OC/LA beaches and restaurants yesterday.
Well, guess what my dinner was last night? Pioneer Chicken! Yes, there’s actually 2 of them left in LA. I’m quite sure I’ve not eaten there since 1990 or late 80’s.
Excellent post Jeff. I agree with all your major points.
I think the season should be officially cancelled and they should sit down and start negotiating the next CBA in the hopes that it can go into effect a year early, starting with the 2021 season.
Both Manfred and Clark should be shown the door before those negotiations begin. Have skilled negotiators from each side at the table, people who have previously been a part of major negotiations and know how to compromise.
MLB 2020 is like the horse you love that has broken its leg. You know you’re going to have to shoot it but you can’t get yourself to pull the trigger.