The St. Louis Cardinals have always been an iconic organization in MLB and arguably the most successful NL via winning more WS than any other NL team, trailing only the NYY. The Cardinals have won 11 WS in 19 appearances. They also hold the ire of Dodger fans as St. Louis has beaten the LAD in four postseason series (1985 NLCS, 2004, NLDS, 2013 NLCS, and 2014 NLDS) against a single series win (2009 NLDS).
My oldest son grew up a Cardinals fan during the 80’s. As a youth ball SS, naturally Ozzie Smith was his idol, and all through youth ball, he wore #1 in his honor. He knew every Cardinals lineup throughout the 80’s. One of his thrills was learning that one of his favorite Cardinals, Ken Oberkfell, was his manager at Piedmont (South Atlantic League) in 1998. He had a fantastic year being mentored by Oberkfell.
For the last several days, the baseball world has been discussing to death the impending Nolan Arenado trade to the Cardinals. When the trade was announced as official, my son, texted me and said it reminds him of the 1985 Jack Clark trade to the Cardinals, of course with a 😈.
But for me, it reminded me about how so very successful the Cardinals have been with their high visibility trades, and there have been many.
June 15, 1964 – Cubs traded Lou Brock, LHP Jack Spring, and RHP Paul Toth, and in return, the Cardinals traded RHP Ernie Broglio, OF Doug Clemens, and LHP Bobby Shantz. Lou Brock went on to HOF and was the ML record holder in SB before Rickey Henderson broke his record. Ernie Broglio remained in the ML for two more years with the Cubs, but was not very successful. He retired in 1966 at the age of 30.
December 10, 1981 – Padres traded Ozzie Smith, RHP Steve Mura, and LHP Al Olmsted, and in return, the Cardinals traded SS Garry Templeton, OF Sixto Lezcano, and RHP Luis DeLeon. Garry Templeton had a wonderful 16 year career, 10 with the Padres where he hit .252/.293/.339/.632. Whereas Ozzie spent the next 15 years with St. Louis culminating in his enshrinement into the National Baseball HOF, forever known as The Wizard of Oz.
October 21, 1981 – The Yankees traded OF Willie McGee to St. Louis in exchange for LHP Bob Sykes. McGee was the Yankees first round draft pick in 1977 out of Diablo Valley Community College in the Bay Area of California, but never played for NYY. McGee had a fantastic 18 year career, with the first 13 with the Cardinals. In 1985, McGee was one of 5 Cardinal players to have stolen at least 30 bases.
- Vince Coleman – 110
- Willie McGee – 56
- Andy Van Slyke – 34
- Ozzie Smith – 31
- Tom Herr -31
Sykes never pitched for NYY or anyone else after the trade.
July 31, 1997 – Oakland A’s traded Mark McGwire to the Cardinals in exchange for RHP Eric Ludwick, RHP T.J. Mathews, RHP Blake Stein. McGwire felt right at home in St. Louis and signed an extension, spending his final five years in MLB with the Cardinals. In those five years, he hit 220 HRs, including a then single season ML record of 70 in 1998, followed by 65 in 1999. None of the three players received by the A’s were productive in stay with Oakland or MLB for that matter. Mathews had a non-productive five years, with Oakland while Ludwick was gone after 1997 and Stein after his one season in 1998.
March 23, 2000 – Anaheim Angels traded CF Jim Edmonds to the Cardinals in exchange for RHP Kent Bottenfield and INF Adam Kennedy. The prize for Anaheim was Kennedy who was a productive 2B for the Angels and a key player in their 2002 WS win. However, Jim Edmonds had a monster eight years with the Cardinals. Edmonds easily is in my top-10 favorite non-Dodger players. Since Willie Mays retired in 1973, only two CF have gone on to have HOF careers; Ken Griffey Jr, and Kirby Puckett. While Jr.’s numbers did not embarrass Edmonds, Jr., was clearly the better player. However, I submit that Jim Edmonds had superior numbers than did Puckett. I am not saying that Puckett was not worthy of HOF, but Jim Edmonds didn’t even qualify for a second year of voting.
- Jr. – .284/.370/.538/.907, 630 HR, 1,836 RBI, 10XGG, 136 OPS+, and 83.8 WAR
- Edmonds – .284/.376/.527/.903, 393 HR, 1,199 RBI, 8XGG, 132 OPS+, and 60.4 WAR
- Puckett – .318/.360/.477/.837, 207 HR, 1,085 RBI, 6XGG, 124 OPS+, and 51.1 WAR
Most everyone on this site, believes that Gil Hodges deserves to be inducted into the HOF, myself included. Different era and different positions, but let’s make a little comparison just the same.
- Hodges – .273/.359/.487/.846, 370 HR, 1,274 RBI, 3XGG, 120 OPS+, and 43.9 WAR
It is inconceivable to me, how Edmonds can put up the numbers he did and garnering only 2.5% of the vote. And Harold Baines is in the HOF????
July 29, 2002 – Philadelphia traded Scott Rolen and RHP Doug Nickle to St. Louis in exchange for INF Placido Polanco, LHP Bud Smith, RHP Mike Timlin. Polanco had a productive 7 years with the Phillies, but it pales in comparison to the HOF consideration worthy career for Rolen. Many Cardinal fans are comparing the Arenado trade to that of Rolen. This one was a little special for me, as the player included with Rolen was Doug Nickle. Nickle and my son were very close friends in the Phillies organization. They played together in Clearwater, Reading, and Scranton/Wilkes Barre, with Andy catching him all three years.
July 24, 2009 – Oakland traded Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for 3B Brett Wallace, OF Shane Peterson, and RHP Clayton Mortensen. Holliday had an outstanding 8 years with the Cardinals. Neither Brett Wallace nor Clayton Mortensen, played for Oakland, and Peterson had 7 ABs.
December 5, 2018 – Arizona traded Paul Goldschmidt to St. Louis in exchange for Catcher Carson Kelly, RHSP Luke Weaver, and INF Andy Young. This one still has a ways to go to get a final grade. Goldschmidt has had a good start in his Cardinals career, but Kelly as the starting catcher, and Weaver in the rotation, look like keepers for the DBacks.
There have been others like the trades for Jack Clark (1985) and Bruce Sutter (1980) that appear to be one sided as well. Brock, Smith, and Sutter all went on to be inducted into the HOF as Cardinals, and Rolen could very well follow them in next year. IMO Edmonds should also have been voted in. Hopefully the Veteran’s Committee can right that wrong (along with Hodges).
I recognize that teams other than St. Louis have had one sided high visibility trades. Unfortunately, the Dodgers have been on the wrong side of many of those trades. They have traded future HOF players like Pedro Martinez and Mike Piazza, and a stellar 1B, Paul Konerko. We certainly do not need to rehash those trades. Hopefully Mookie can turn Dodgers future trade fortunes around.
What is special about the Cardinals, is after the trades, McGwire, Edmonds, Rolen, Holliday, and Goldschmidt all signed extensions to prolong their productive Cardinals career. They had the opportunity to become FA and yet they decided to remain in St. Louis. Nolan Arenado does not fit those parameters, but he can opt out after either the 2021 or 2022 seasons, but he has made it clear that he fully intends to finish his career in St. Louis. Of course those are words and he has two years to change or honor those words into deeds.
Miscellaneous charts giving credence to some of Jim Edmonds exploits being HOF worthy.
Discussion (51)
Disagree, not disagreeable
My prediction is Nelson will be a game changer next year. You heard it here first!
What a lot of people don’t realize is that on many teams a guy like Mitch White would be a favorite to land a job. With us, there is so much competition good players will inevitably be left off.
King Felix was a free agent? For a million he would have been worth giving him a contract, now is in Baltimore…
What about maybe signing Shane Greene? He was a target at the deadline a couple of years ago and ended up going to the Braves. Had decent stats last year, and still is unsigned. Only 31 years old.
Living in Southern Illinois I am surrounded by cards fans. You can’t shut them up now after getting Arenado. They make me sick but look out they are about a pitcher away while la seems to be frozen.
Talk about St. Louis trades how about Larry Walker.
Careful DL. You’re headed into idiot territory!
Still sure we’re not signing Bauer, Timmons?
We could be packaging a starting pitcher for a 3b.
Twins are now expected to sign Colome. That would leave Rosenthal and Melancon as top relievers still available. Melancon has been a good reliever, just tooooooo expensive. In 20 playoff games, he was scored on in only three, two of which were not good at all. He was not very good in SF, but everywhere else he has been. Okay not very good in Boston in 2012. Maybe he would take $3.5MM and a better chance for a WS ring. Same with Rosenthal who is also looking for that ring.
Soria to the D-Bags.
Could Turner take a one-year deal for $ 5 million and offer him $ 15 the next? I don’t know if as an option or just to make a promise, it would be possible, but would it be legal? Would it be appropriate?
Jake Amaya has a ST invite. For those who do not watch much MiLB, watch Amaya play SS this Spring. He is considered a plus defender, and the best defensive infielder in the organization. He can stay at SS, but many still see him transitioning to 2B where he could garner some GG consideration. He still needs to elevate his hitting, as he has a 1.5 GO/AO ratio. He will never have the power. Many beleive if he did have average power potential he would be a Top 100 prospect today. But he does have decent plate discipline. He has 170 K with 147 BB in 973 PA. 17.5% K rate. He will need to decrease that number without his power, but he has the tools to do so.
Not sure if fans would buy tickets to watch post season games if the games had no path to a championship and instead gave them draft pick positioning. What?
Let’s say the 6 Division winners and two wild card teams compete for the championship. That is an 8 team playoff system.
Then add the next best 8 teams to the post-season where they play for the first 8 picks in the draft followed by the remaining 14 teams drafting in positions 9 through 22.
This keeps the best 8 teams with the last 8 draft picks in each round but penalizes the worst 14 teams. It puts 16 teams in the post season but does not weaken the field competing for the championship.
Why should teams that don’t spend on payroll even though they get revenue sharing from the large market teams be rewarded with the best draft picks?
Will fans show up to watch the draft pick post season?
Baseball attendance has been steadily declining over last several years through 2019. After 20 and 21, a work stoppage in 22 could be lethal. And what is baseball doing to attract the younger generation. Most whom would rather attend a gaming championship than a baseball one. When us old farts die off this game is in trouble
An event manager could rent an arena, hire a band, sell tickets, hire security and ushers, and get a TV contract to expand the revenue. But how many people would buy tickets to watch a reunion of the Turtles if they were the kind of band hired?
A singer can establish themselves on the Internet but baseball players need a league, stadium, etc to establish themselves. Betts would not make a living as a baseball player without the MLB.
MLB owners need awesome players to attract fans. They can’t fill stadiums if the public does not think they are watching the best.
I guess as long as owners keep charging fans exorbitant prices for watching a game whether in person of on TV subscription, players should likewise charge the owners exorbitant salaries.
Kolten Wong to the Brewers in a multi year deal, pending physical.
I don’t like the expanded playoffs, period. It’s too watered down already, and so vulnerable to a good team having a bad series, or a bad team having a good series, that it’s becoming rare to see the best teams play for the title. Isn’t that why there’s a season, so we can let the best rise to the top and watch the best go at one another for the title? In my opinion, owners are turning MLB into “everyone plays” Little League so no one’s feelings are hurt, and of course profit, but I have no qualms about profit.
47% of the major league teams are in the playoffs? Absurd. Totally absurd.
Players feel they got hosed with last agreement and they will be playing hardball next year. It’s hard to imagine that there won’t be some kind of work stoppage next year. That will be 3 years in a row of reduced revenue. And 3 years of fans not getting to participate in a full season of baseball. That will not be good for the game. I’m already frustrated with both sides. In such a times like these millionaires squabbling with billionaires and depriving us the fans of the baseball we want to see next year after these last 2 years. MLB can’t afford to lose any remaining fans they have!
Good read this morning from Ken Rosenthal in the Athletic about the gap between the Union and MLB over many issues, most prominently the DH and expanded playoffs being a bundled political football. He looks at both sides and their lack of cooperation and tardiness in addressing these issues. I can’t stand Manfred and MLB but it seems the Union is equally guilty in this one. The fact that fans seem overwhelmingly in favor of the DH and a 14 team playoff, neither side cares much about the fans. Without changes in the cast of characters, it seems to me damn near impossible for the two sides to find enough compromise to avoid a work stoppage next year. The 2 sides dislike each other so much, the seems no middle ground.
I love Nelson Cruz. He is a class act and fell out of bed hitting. He’s the prototypical DH. He just resigned with the Twins, which may have been inevitable but his bargaining position as a free agent was undoubtedly compromised by the lack of the DH in the NL. That cut potential suitors in half and perhaps costing him money.
This whole stubbornness by both sides just pisses me off.
Cruz back with the Twins. Crickets from Dodgerland.
The Angels trade for Cobb reminds of the Dodgers trade for Knebel: costs abot $5m & a prospect although ours was fringe at best.
Speaking of Edmonds and Baines, this is exactly what I was referring to, there are players who make one think “Why is he in the Hall of Fame and this other is not there? I do not know which or how many numbers are necessary to get there, but for me, it is the HALL OF FAME and not the hall of all-time leaders in certain categories.
Also, why are sports writers who decide who enters and who does not? It should be by vote, just like it is with the all-star game
Edmonds should definitely be in the hall. He is more than worthy. Saw him play many times and he was as clutch as any hitter I have ever seen. And his defense? Well there have been few better.
Edmonds had a great yack follow-through. Used to imitate it post HR.