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LA Dodger Talk

is it time for a philosophy change towards hitting?

The System in Place is Not Hitting on All Cylinders

By Michael "Bear" Norris11 min readJump to 83 comments

Robert Von Scoyoc is the Dodgers hitting coach. He first joined the team in 2016 as a consultant. He helped Chris Taylor rework his swing, and the results were pretty dramatic. Taylor gained a lot of power; he also became a strikeout machine. Taylor only played in 34 games in 16, and his only homer was a grand slam in Arizona. Over that winter, he worked with Von Scoyoc and in 17 he hit .288/21/72. Pretty impressive for a 26-year-old player who in 3 minor league seasons had never hit more than 1.

The downside? He struck out 142 times and walked just 50. The following year he struck out 178 times to lead the National League. His BA dropped 34 points, and he played in 15 more games. Let's face it, for a utility player, that is way too many Ks, especially one who is NOT hitting 30 plus bombs.

I know many do not think BA matters; it is OPS and other stats that define a player's worth. Those are what they are paid on. The last Dodger batting champion was Tommy Davis in 1963 when he hit .326. If it is not so important, why do most broadcaster's feel it necessary to bring up a hitter's average with RISP when there is a crucial moment? Sorry, BA matters, especially in clutch situations. A player's ability to put the bat on the ball when it is needed most is how you score runs. Runs win games, and after all, isn't that the goal? It is the same with wins for pitchers, granted, it is right place right time kind of stat. It has lost a lot of its luster. The way pitchers are used in this era has changed the dynamic a lot.

But hitting? It is a basic and major part of the game, how players approach at bats and situations matters. How frustrating is it to see a team load the bases with no outs and not score? The Dodgers lately have made that an art form. Will it continue? There is a lot of talent on this team, there is also a huge target on their backs.

Because of that, teams are pitching to them much differently. For one thing, they have faced a lot of pitchers whose primary pitch is not the fastball. Many of the Dodger players feast on fastballs. Not so good against the off-speed stuff.

But back to the question, is it time for a new hitting philosophy? Time to get away from the trying to hit the ball in the air theory they have used since 2018? Von Scoyoc was hired as the batting coach in 2019. His #2 is Aaron Bates. Call me weird, but it has always befuddled me that guys with little or no pro-experience are helping major leaguers hit. Bates at least got a cup of coffee in the majors and played pro ball for 8 years.

So, I went back to see who the batting coach was beginning in 2012 when Guggenheim bought the team. I also to be fair, took the pitchers at bats out of the equation since most of them were terrible hitters and their stats would dramatically drop the teams overall stats.

2012: Batting coach was former Dodger and major leaguer, Dave Hansen. Hansen holds the record for the most PH homers in a season by a Dodger with 7. His 12-team hit .259/.326/,386 with a .712 OPS. They scored 629 runs and had 116 homers. Kemp and Ethier were the only players with 20 or more, and Kemp played just 106 games.

2013-15: The Dodgers hired former slugger, Mark McGwire as the hitting coach. his 13-team hit .268/.331/.406 with a .737 OPS. They scored 627 runs and hit 137 homers. His 2014 team hit .272/.340/.417 with an OPS of .757. They scored 695 runs and hit 133 homers. His last season was 2015. That winter Andrew Freidman became the President of Baseball Operations. The Dodgers hit .257/.335/.417 with a .762 OPS. They scored 650 runs and hit 185 homers. They had become more reliant on homers to score and scored less.

Dave Roberts took over as manager in 2016, and his new hitting coach was Turner Ward. Ward had played parts of three seasons in the majors and hit .251. His first team posted a .256/.338/.424 line with a .758 OPS. They hit 188 homers and scored 710 runs. One of the things Ward did in 2017, was turn Yasiel Puig around. Puig was notorious for not taking his coaches seriously. Ward became his mentor, and Puig rewarded that with two of his best seasons. The 17-team hit .257/.343/.454 with a .797 OPS, scoring 753 runs hitting 221 homers. They won their first pennant since 88. His last team in 18 hit .257/.341/.458 with a .799 OPS. They slugged 235 homers and scored 794 runs.

2019-Present: The Dodgers hired Von Scoyoc in 2019. One of the main things they focus on are launch angle swings. They have been preaching this since day one. Now, some of us older guys were taught to swing level and try and hit line drives. The power would come if you made solid contact.

His philosophy has resulted in increased home run totals, but it has also increased the strikeout ratio. Best examples are Taylor and Max Muncy. Over a 162-game season, Muncy would produce 34 homers, 95 RBIs and strike out 155 times. He would walk 94 and his OPS would be .828. Which for most supporters of today's style of hitting offsets his strikeouts. Strikeouts just do not carry the same stigma they did back in the day.

But the problem for me is that this style of hitting, does not seem conducive to situational at bats. I can understand not trying to hit a groundball with a runner on first and keeping the possibility of double play off the board, and it even makes sense when there is a runner on third with less than two-outs. It seems that using this type of approach, which leaves on prone to the strikeout, does not mesh with just hitting the ball solidly where it is thrown and using all parts of the field. The way infielders set up these days, there are huge gaps in the defense where a solidly hit baseball has the best chance of becoming a hit.

Maybe BA does not matter much in the game anymore, but it tells me along with ones OBP, that this player is getting on base, and doing it better than most. And you have to get on base to score. Then you have to drive that player home. This year more than most of the preceding years, the Dodgers have not been doing that. They have hit into more double plays, 113 than any team in the majors. The last couple of months have been brutal. They have not been hitting well with men in scoring position. Now, with Ohtani suffering from some sort of injury, they have lost their main power source, along with the loss of Pages. And so far, no one has picked up the slack. Age has obviously played some part in all of this. But I also think it is time for a change heading into the future where contact hitters once again have value.

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I have to apologize.  I had a bad fall today at my grandson’s Cross Country meet and got banged up a bit.  The Ontario game lasted too long and was too wild scoring, so I was not able to write a complete report.  I was too tired. 

 

OKC Comets 2 – Round Rock Express (Texas) 1 – 11 innings 

The Comets pitching was brilliant in back-to-back extra inning wins.  The Comets have now won their last 8 straight games, and 9 of 10.  They climbed from 5th in the PCL 2nd half, to the front of the pack, tied with Sugar Land Space Cowboys (Houston).  There are 13 games to play. 

In the 4th inning, 2B Hyeseong Kim walked and moved to 3rd on 3B Ryan Fitzgerald’s single.  Kim scored on C Eliézer Alfonzo RBI single. 

LHSP Charlie Barnes pitched 5.0 scoreless innings.  He allowed a pair of hits, 1 BB, 5 K.  RHRP Ben Casparius back again after being shut down since August 19.  He pitched a clean 6th.  

RHRP Jake Cousins was making his 2nd appearance for OKC, but this one did not go quite as well as his 1st.  He walked a batter sandwiched by a couple of outs.  But back-to-back singles brought home the tying run. 

Both teams traded zeros for the next three innings.  In the top of the 11th, 1B Ryan Ward was the placed runner.  DH Matt Gorski drew a BB, and Kim hit a sac bunt putting runners on 2nd and 3rd.  Fitzgerald hit a go-ahead SF. 

RHRP Paul Gervase pitched a perfect 10th and came back out for the 11th.  He pitched a second clean inning to get the save.  

LF Chris Newell doubled (1) in his AAA debut going 1-3. 

·      James Tibbs III – 2-4, 1 BB, double (30)

·      Eliézer Alfonzo – 2-5, 1 RBI

·      Chris Newell – 1-3, 1 BB, double (1) 

Box Score 

 

Tulsa Drillers 8 - Wichita Wind Surge (Twins) 6 

The two teams went into the bottom of the 5th in a 0-0 tie.  With 2 outs, SS Sean McLain clubbed a solo HR (6) to break the scoreless tie. 

RHSP Patrick Copen started and pitched 5.0 scoreless innings.  Because of a CS and a GIDP, Copen was only 1 over the minimum through 5.  In the 6th, Copen gave up 3 runs on a double, 3 singles, and a HBP, before ending the inning on GIDP.  

Tulsa went back out in front in the bottom of the 6th.  CF Mike Sirota and DH Elijah Hainline walked to start the inning. 2B Jake Gelof singled to score Sirota and moved Hainline to 3rd.  3B Logan Wagner grounded out to score Hainline and move Gelof to 2nd. McLain singled to knock in his 2nd run. 

Tulsa scored 4 in the 7th.  Sirota had a 1-out BB and moved to 2nd on Hainline’s single.  Gelof doubled (22) to score 2.  Wagner hit a 2-run HR (4). 

RHRP Kelvin Ramirez relieved in the 8th.  A single and 3 BB scored a run, cutting the lead to 8-4. 

LHRP Evan Shaw relieved Ramirez in the 9th. Shaw hit the first batter but got the next two batters out.  That was followed by a single and 2-run double, and BB.  RHRP Cam Day relieved Shaw and got the final out for his 8th save. 

·      Jake Gelof – 2-4, 2 runs, 3 RBI, double (22)

·      Sean McLain – 2-4, 1 run, 2 RBI, HR (6)

·      Logan Wagner – 1-3, 1 BB, 1 run, 3 RBI, HR (4)

·      Mike Sirota – 1-3, 2 BB, 2 runs 

Box Score 

 

Great Lakes Loons 5 – Lake County Captains (Cleveland) 0 

This was RHSP Cam Leiter’s third start for GL, and he was tasked with bringing home a 2nd half Divisional clinching start. This was his longest outing as a professional, and it was arguably his best pitched game.  He went 5.0 scoreless innings.  He allowed 3 hits, no BB, and struck out 3.  He kept the pitch count at 64, 40 strikes.  

The Loons scored 3 runs in the 3rd, but thanks primarily to the lack of control from the Captains pitchers.  LF Charles Davalan led off with a single and stole 2nd.  Davalan reached 3rd on 2B Nico Perez’s single. RF Jaron Elkins walked to load the bases.  1B Eduardo Guerrero drew a BB to force in Davalan.  The next batter K’d. C Victor Rodrigues and DH Gio Cueto both walked to score 2 runs and a 3-0 lead. 

LHRP Maddux Bruns continued his resurgence down a level at High A.  He pitched a scoreless 6th allowing a hit and a walk to go with 1K. 

LHRP Matt Lanzendorfer completed scoreless 7th. He went back out to the mound in the 8th and the 1st two batters reached on a single and BB.  RHRP Dilen Figueredo relieved Lanzendorfer and retired the next three batters without allowing a run. 

The Loons picked up a pair of insurance runs in the 9th.  Elkins singled to open the inning.  Guerrero drew a BB. Both runners moved up on a balk.  Elkins scored on Rodrigues’ SF, and Guerrero scored on Cueto’s single.  

Figueredo pitched a clean 9th inning for his 6th save, and clinching of the Midwest League East Division 2nd Half Championship.  The Loons are the 3rd LAD affiliate to reach the playoffs.  

·      Charles Davalan – 3-5, 1 run

·      Eduardo Guerrero – 1-2, 2 BB, 1 run, 1 RBI, double (15) 

Box Score 

 

Ontario Tower Buzzers 11 – Rancho Cucamonga Quakes (LAA)10 

2B Kellon Lindsey led off the bottom of the 1st with his 11th HR. 

Down 2-1 in the 4th, Ontario put up 7.  DH Oswaldo Osorio hit a leadoff HR (13).  1B Easton Shelton hit a grand slam (37) later in the inning. 

The bullpen gave up 8 in the 7th and 8th, giving RC a 2-run lead that went into the bottom of the 9th.  Ontario had three singles, a HBP, BB, and a LF Ching-Hsien KO walkoff single.  

·      Oswaldo Osorio – 3-3, 2 BB, 2 runs, 2 RBI, double (7), HR (13)

·      Easton Shelton – 2-5, 1 run, 4 RBI, HR (37)

·      Ching-Hsien Ko – 2-5, 1 run, 1 RBI

·      Joendry Vargas – 2-5, 1 run, 1 RBI

·      Francisco Espinoza – 1-4, 1 run, 1 RBI

·      Kellon Lindsey – 1-4, 2 BB, 2 runs, 2 RBI, HR (11) 

Box Score

 

Discussion (83)

Disagree, not disagreeable

Comments are closed on this post. Existing comments remain visible below.

  1. Sir WatfordSeptember 6, 2026

    All the best Jeff and thanks for your efforts. I now have a far greater knowledge of our Minor League system because of you.

    Good win last night with a depleted team. We would have lost that one a few days ago.

    I know I’ll get some blowback but I much prefer Edman (or maybe Mookie) leading off. Michael has always said that Shohei shouldn’t be Leading Off, and Ive always agreed. Let him hit with runners on base - the responsibility might make him more selective. I think he could do with a different role.

    I’m guessing Dalton is done for this season. I like Feduccia.

  2. Mark TimmonsSeptember 6, 2026

    Jeff, text me if you need me to complete the Minor League Report. I have figured out how to use AI - It's not as good as you do it, but it can pass muster for a day or two. Rest up and get better. Your minor league report is the best... EVER!

    That's why you are The Unquestioned Minor League Genius!

  3. Andrew V ForteSeptember 6, 2026Edited

    With the Padres' loss against the Yankees last night, the Dodgers' magic number to clinch the NL West is now down to 10 and we moved a game ahead of the Braves for the second playoff bye with their loss to the Phillies last night.

  4. LionelsmirkSeptember 7, 2026

    Dodgers are winning this game

  5. LionelsmirkSeptember 7, 2026

    Last one: Mark's pet prospect came up in a 3-2 game against Wichita with runners at the corners and proceeded to . . .

    strike out swinging.

  6. philjonesSeptember 6, 2026Edited

    Good article today Bear. It's a very interesting subject; slug vs contact. But as you mentioned, back in our day's strikeouts were a bad thing. Put the ball in play and good things happen, we were taught. Now an out is just an out and strikeouts are an acceptable byproduct of slug. Currently, I think the boom in technology helps the pitchers over the hitters. Maybe that will someday change but I'm not sure how. But the pendulum swings. Maybe one way for the change is going back to emphasizing contact and putting the ball in play, once again?

  7. DodgerdadSeptember 6, 2026Edited

    Sunday thoughts. (1). Mookie was pronounced dead! He’s ALIVE! (2). Was it Doc’s decision to sit Ohtani? (3). Edman should never hit eighth again!(or 9th). (4).Feduccia has been good at the plate. A little below average behind it. (5). The Nationals can flat out hit. (6). Goodbye RVS. Time for a new philosophy. (7). Tanner Scott should have been out of the ninth inning unscathed. (8). Alex Freeland has a lot of “almost “ hits. (9). Alex Call is ok. Not great, but ok. (10). Tucker might get better! Damn that would be big! (11). When Pages comes back, where will he bat in the lineup? # 6 I suggest. (12). Kike would have made a great football player! (13). James Woods would be a great dodger. (14). Glasnow got a wee bit frustrated last night. He will be fine. (15). Wish I could watch the game tonight! BLACKOUT! Stupid! (16). Bear is truly great at this job! So is Jeff. (17). Yamamoto bus still the best in my opinion! Of course my opinion means squat. (18). Tyler has a devastating curve ball! (19). Freddie is a national treasure. (20). Bobby Miller? Could be a 5 star addition to the bullpen! Hope his brain is in a good place! (21). LSU looked like a powerhouse last night. Kiffin is still a douchebag. But a very rich one. (22). Michigan escaped from the jaws of embarrassment! Was it legitimate? (23). PCAis officially the MVP in the national league. (24). Why couldn’t jolly Jess have been on the nationals/ dodgers series!! It’s blacked out here! (25). Mark, thanks again for all this! It’s truly a pleasure and privilege to be a part of something like this! I even kinda like Bluto! Damn I’m getting soft!

  8. tedraymond2.0September 6, 2026

    Another nice win for the Dodgers giving them a three game winning streak.

    It's good to see Teo look engaged and providing some clutch, RISP hitting.

    Tommy Edman is having an opportunity to show all his skills now that the chronic ankle injury looks to be a non issue. Need an incredible defensive play? Tommy Tanks can do that! Add in a dramatic come from behind three run HR late in the game. No problem for Mr. Edmond. If he can stay on the field, Edmond could emerge as the Dodger's MVP for the postseason. Sorry Will Smith, but Tommy Edmond has become my favorite player on the team.

    The Dodger BP continues to make things interesting. The once dependable Vesia has become a big question mark when he enters a game. At the same time Phillips appears to be rounding into shape and has returned to his usual, effective self. Scott goes all "Kenley Jansen" with a high wire act when he is called upon. But, he usually gets the job done. It doesn't seem matter who the opposition might be.

    The past couple of games have been entertaining and fun to watch. There finally seems to be a little spark. Will it continue or is it just an aberration? With the easier, rest of the season schedule there's a good chance it could continue.

    Bear, I totally agree with your thoughts on today's hitting philosophy. The thing that has bothered me is all the hitters were expected to use launch angle approach. Usually, the bottom 3-4 hitters aren't true power hitters. I've felt that they would be more valuable to the team if their skills were directed toward making contact and putting the ball in play. Move runners, bunt, etc. Strikeouts would not be accepted as a positive outcome. Put the ball in play. You never know what can happen. Look at the 2024 WS and that fifth inning clown show by the Yankee defense. The Dodgers hit the ball. The Yankees made errors that they wouldn't make once in a thousand times. It turned the WS around for the Dodgers and lead to a championship. A simple result of making contact.

    Carry on

  9. CassidySeptember 6, 2026

    Rest up and get better Bear. We’re at the age where just watching sports is dangerous. Three in a row now! Wasn’t pretty but winning ugly is still winning. Second night in a row that Nationals gifted the winning run to us. That’s why they’re starting vacation in October. Six runs was pretty amazing for Freddie and his AAA lineup. Not a big fan of Freeland but he had some really nice AB’s last night.

  10. Duke Not SniderSeptember 6, 2026

    Is that a typo? Did Shelton really hit a 513-foot slam??? He is a big, strong lad but....

    Jeff, hope you are feeling better after your fall. Really appreciate how you keep us informed with the farm report. There's always some reason to smile.

  11. LionelsmirkSeptember 7, 2026

    Curveball Curveball Curveball Fastball [sinker] Curveball Fastball

    Siddown

  12. LionelsmirkSeptember 7, 2026

    Overall positive inning for Bo-Mill but walking the dangerous Wood to load the bases was risky with a guy battling his command.

  13. CassidySeptember 7, 2026

    Wrobo not getting any help from his defense!

  14. LionelsmirkSeptember 6, 2026

    Gelof just hits

  15. LionelsmirkSeptember 6, 2026

    Screw the Braves. Let's take aim at the Brewers. 1.5 back if we win tonight.

  16. LionelsmirkSeptember 6, 2026

    Bubic with a non-zero chance to make the postseason roster.

  17. Andrew V ForteSeptember 6, 2026

    The Dodgers announced that catcher Daulton Rushing has been placed on the 10-day injured list, retroactive to September 5. Catcher Eliezer Alfonzo was called up from Triple-A in the corresponding move.

  18. Singing the BlueSeptember 6, 2026

    Rushing to the IL, Alfonzo recalled, because we desperately need 3 catchers instead of someone who might actually get a hit as a pinch hitter once in a while.

  19. Andrew V ForteSeptember 6, 2026Edited

    10:10 PM ET

    Nationals (67-77) Dodgers (85-57)

    SP Andrew Alvarez L 2-6 3.47 ERA SP Justin Wrobleski L 11-5 3.65 ERA

    Confirmed Lineup CF Tommy Edman S SS Mookie Betts R C Will Smith R 1B F. Freeman L LF T. Hernandez R RF Kyle Tucker L 2B Miguel Rojas R DH Max Muncy L 3B E. Hernandez R

    76° Wind 5 mph L-R LINE LAD -204

    NO Ohtani

  20. dodgerpatchSeptember 6, 2026Edited

    "The Dodgers hired Von Scoyoc in 2019. One of the main things they focus on are launch angle swings. They have been preaching this since day one. Now, some of us older guys were taught to swing level and try and hit line drives. The power would come if you made solid contact.

    His philosophy has resulted in increased home run totals, but it has also increased the strikeout ratio."

    I don't know that this is true. Reading a little more about what launch angle is, it's not just a crude uppercut swing, which is what a lot of you are assuming. It has more to do with keeping the bat in the plane of the ball for LONGER. Optimizing launch angle does this by matching the upward trajectory of the swing patch with the downward trajectory of the pitch.

    Maybe a lot of you assume a pitched ball is more or less crossing the plate roughly parallel to the plate, or in a straight line. No, a pitch crosses the plate in a downward path of 6-12 degrees. Now, if you're old school and swing level like you were told, the path your bat travels will not line up with the downward path of the pitch. Unless you hit it just perfectly, the result will likely be be a ground ball, or if you try to compensate and swing lower, it's a pop up.

    Ground balls are bad.

    If you're going have a hard hit ball or line drive, it's better to hit the ball into the air - always. This is well understood and statistically inviolable. Hit the ball hard and in the air.

    If you are able to extend the swing path to match the ball for longer and in line with its downward trajectory, you're more likely to hit it hard and in the air. If implemented properly, this should actually LOWER the strikeout rate. Implementation is key, and results may vary, and strikeouts are up league wide, I think for reasons not necessarily tied to launch angle.

    "To the subject, I do not think it is a surprise to anyone who has read my posts over the years that I am not a RVS fan. I acknowledge that he helped JD Martinez and CT3. But those are two extremes to the high leg lift, foot down, high launch angle swing. Justin Turner was also that type of hitter, but he became that pull side high launce angle hitter well before RVS was on the scene. It does nothing to help with adjustments with hitters who do not identify with that type of hitting. Are the problems directly related to RVS? No knowledge. But for someone who was not a good HS hitter, and a poor JC hitter, I am not sure how that qualifies him to be a MLB hitting coach. How can he tell a MiLB hitter how to approach professional pitchers, much less MLB, if he could not hit HS pitching? If that makes me a snob, so be it. I can live with that."

    Everything I've read about Van Scoyoc emphasizes that he does not practice a one-size-fits-all dogmatic approach to hitting. Every strategy is individualized and personally tailored to the strengths and weaknesses of the player - even how ideas are communicated. Some players can geek out on strategy, others do better with simple cues. And not every player is told to uppercut everything into oblivion.

    I don't know that being a good HS hitter makes much difference one way or the other. RVS lives in the world of hitting analytics, methodology, and instruction. I suppose having experienced early life as an accomplished hitter would help convey ideas based on experience, but now it's equal parts science. And besides, neither Charlie Lau nor Walt Hriniak were very accomplished hitters, though they did have some MLB experience. RVS, on the other hand, has quite extensive experience being the hitting coach for perhaps the top offensive in baseball for the past several years.

    As for Tucker and Conforto stinking it up as Dodgers, but being successful elsewhere, sure it's a correlation. But correlation is not causation, and it's just as likely to be a coincidence.

  21. DanoSeptember 6, 2026

    I totally agree with everybody on RVS. Jeff's take on Conforto and Tucker are spot on. I'm sure everyone in the war room are having productive conversations about the hitting philosophy. Hang in there Jeff. Book em

  22. BlutoSeptember 6, 2026

    Can't say this column is a surprise.

    Sadly.

  23. Michael "Bear" NorrisSeptember 6, 2026

    Just got back from Denver. Had a nice visit with my son.

  24. LionelsmirkSeptember 6, 2026

    Anybody actually Diaz's outing? I missed it.

  25. BlueAZ2020September 6, 2026

    Jeff, you’re a beast! Thanks for all the hard work and the best minor league reporting! Prayers for a speedy recovery.