Anyone who has not been living under a rock knows about the Redsox – Dodger Trade Debacle. The Red Sox traded David Price and Mookie Betts to the Dodgers and paid half of Price’s salary, while the Dodgers sent Kenta Maeda to the Twins and the Twins were to send flamethrower Brusdar Graterol back to the Red Sox.
In a separate move, the Dodgers will send Joc Pederson and Ross Stripling to the Angels for infielder Luis Rengifo and two other prospects. None of that has been formally announced, however. The Betts/Price trade is not yet official and the Pederson/Stripling trade has not been consummated either.
The media immediately crucified the Red Sox and said that Andrew Friedman had committed the greatest robbery in the history of baseball. It would appear that Red Sox Owner, John Henry then told Chaim Bloom (Cheif Baseball Officer of the Red Sox) that he needed to get more back in the deal. Thus… there is a stalemate!
Let’s not forget what John Henry said early in the offseason:
“We need to be under the CBT. That was something we’ve known for more than a year now.”
Then, a couple of months later, he denied he said what he said. I am sure that Bloom informed Henry of the trade and then when the media uproar started, Henry demanded more in return. I don’t know that for sure, but John Henry obviously is not always true to his word.
Tony Massarotti of 985theSportsHub.com wrote this about Bloom:
“All of this brings us back to Bloom, who was hired last fall to do what Dave Dombrowski did not – specifically, to formulate and execute a longer-term plan that actually has some vision. Sure, Dombrowski won a World Series here, but he generally did it with someone else’s prospects and someone else’s money. He wasn’t exactly an idea guy. Most any of us could have identified the players Dombrowski traded and traded for because they were all on a chart of the best players or prospects available. All he ever did was play the hits.”
I will blame John Henry for all this until I see evidence to the contrary. I think Chaim Bloom did what he thought was right and Henry intervened. We may never know. I don’t always agree with Tony Clark of the MLBPA, but when he weighed in on the Dodger – Redsox Trade Debacle, he was spot on:
“The proposed trades between the Dodgers, Red Sox, Twins, and Angels need to be resolved without further delay. The events of this last week have unfairly put several Players’ lives in a state of limbo.
The unethical leaking of medical information as well as the perversion of the salary arbitration process serve as continued reminders that too often Players are treated as commodities by those running the game.”
Scott Boras, who is Brusdar Graterol’s agent says this:
“They’re relying on a cursory medical record review, yet noted orthopedic doctors who saw him say there’s no issue going forward.”
Again, consider the source.
The Dodgers are indeed upset, as they felt they had an agreement with Boston and the Twins. Angels owner Arte Moreno is said to be furious that the hold-up of the first deal has left his organization in flux . Maybe Commissioner Manfred can’t do anything about this, but when punishment needs to be handed down for the alleged cheating, his hand needs to be heavier!
Bob Nightengale predicted that the trade would become official yesterday. As usual, he was wrong. The Red Sox are demanding anther Top 10 Twins prospect and of course, the Twins are balking. That means that the Dodgers may have to cough up a Top Prospect, such as Tony Gonsolin.
If I were Andrew Friedman, I would walk. See you later, Bye! Leave the Red Sox to their misery and sign Betts after the season. Refuse to deal with the Cheaters, Andrew! They are still at it…
Other Dodger News
- The Dodgers defeated Joc Pederson is salary arbitration, successfully arguing that he was a platoon player.
- After signing Max Muncy to an extension, that can keep him in LA for four more years, the Dodgers also extended Chris Taylor, buying out his last two years of arbitration.
- I will be in Phoenix next Thursday and Friday when Pitchers and Catchers Report but may not have time to stop by Camelback as I am at the Arizona Cannabis Expo. It’s just business… really!
Discussion (72)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Agree 100% with Mark about setting a bad precedent by caving into lying, cheating bullies. I made the same point earlier in this thread when I said that it was a bad precedent to reward unethical behavior. No way that the low lives from Boston should receive more than was originally agreed to because of their reprehensible behavior. If necessary, the Dodgers may have to bite the bullet, and walk away from this deal. In the long run they will benefit.
I remember a scene from the very good movie “Croupier,” where a player in the casino tries to sneak in a late bet on the roulette wheel when he thinks he knows where it will land. The croupier says calmly that the bet was late. The player strenuously objects. People at the table say the bet was late. The player starts yelling and threatening. The manager comes over, tells the croupier to pay the player his claimed winnings, and then takes him aside and politely says that he can never play at this casino again.
That is apparently a practice at the better gambling places. Do not argue with a player, unless it is for a very large amount. Let him win his argument, get him out of there, and make sure he cannot come back. Now, this situation is not all that analogous, but it is not completely dissimilar. If this deal completely falls apart, we lose Betts for this season; we have a bunch of disgruntled players like Verdugo and Joc and Maeda coming back; if we keep the Angels part of it, we have made a rather imbalanced deal on its own.
So maybe the smartest course is to concede a bit, give Boston a little more, and the finish the deal? I don’t know what the “little more” would be, but I would rather see us consummate this, then have it all blow up, and then have some players who are not happy, and also have no Betts. After that, like the casino, we will never deal with Boston again, and other owners and GMs will realize that they are not to be trusted. They are not going to think, ‘Well, that Boston was sure smart, look what they got by getting out of the first deal.” They will think that they don’t want to deal with them. I know that this goes against the grain of some people, but it might be the smarter thing to swallow our pride somewhat, and finish the deal. As an attorney, I have had this experience, and I am sure most of you have, too, in your profession. Unfortunately, I don’t think that the Dodgers will make a higher offer, but it might actually be the better course, even if we are angry about them reneging. I don’t like the idea of all of our players coming back here, not being happy, and us not having gotten the superstar player that we thought we had obtained.
Pads just traded Margot and a prospect to the Rays for Emilio Pagan. He would have made a nice addition to our pen. On the other hand, this will now be his fourth team in four years, so…………………………
Twins are (rightfully) done with Boston’s bullshit. Looks like the deal has fallen apart.
If this trade does not go through as originally negotiated, then I do not see how this trade gets resurrected. AF did a masterful job of keeping any of the top prospects out of the deal and for Boston to now come back and want more, AF should tell them good luck with Price and Betts. Sure I would love to have Betts on LAD, but if the the consolation prize is they get to keep Alex Verdugo, not a bad fallback option. Of course Boston now wants the Dodgers to throw in Tony Gonsolin or Josiah Gray, and AF should hang up.
Why would Minnesota pay more for Maeda than Graterol? To help Boston get better? If Boston wants more from Minnesota, then it is easy for the Twins to walk away and look elsewhere.
Or perhaps they could still follow through with the Maeda for Graterol as a standalone trade. Maeda helps Minnesota this year, and Graterol could become that closer the Dodgers are looking for.
I think it also makes sense for AF to complete the Joc to LAA trade. Joc has been a good Dodger and teammate. He would get his chance to show what he can do as a full-time RF against all pitching. If he is successful, then he will be rewarded more handsomely next year as a FA. Champ gets to spend time with Albert Pujols. Rengifo becomes the LAD 2021 version of Kike’ Hernandez.
The 2020 team is not quite as deep, but all of the prospects are still intact potentially for that Ace come trade deadline.
Open the vault next year for Mookie. Hopefully that QO offer goes away with penalties coming down for the Boston cheating scandal, and they get nothing for Mookie.
Stripling stays a Dodger.
The obvious answer is to trade Maeda to the Red Sox. That cancels out the Minnesota trade. The problem, of course, is that Boston may not want to do any trade now, and so will demand someone the Dodgers will not give them, like May. I wouldn’t want to see Gonsolin go, he is a smart pitcher, and could be quite good, though his stuff is not as good as May’s. We could substitute Stripling, but then the Angels deal is gone, and I don’t know if they want to upset Moreno, even though this would not be our fault.. Those would be the easiest ways out, giving up players we had already thought we had traded.
It does seem, though, that Boston wants out, unless they can show their fans and the Boston Herald writer that they got a better deal than before. Of course, the Dodgers don[t want to look like they caved in. So I’m not too optimistic, but maybe the Boston GM and new manager can convince the owner that taking Price back after you traded him, and paying him $32 million is not a good thing, plus if Price does not have a good year this year, they’l never be able to get out of his contract. This whole thing is just pathetic on Boston’s part. They were the ones who wanted Graterol, and they didn’t research his history until now? I do not believe it.
Heyman now saying the Twins haven’t totally pulled out but have given everyone a deadline of today to get it done. Someone had to do that and now it’s been done.
I really like Jayne’s idea about keeping Verdugo and going after Betts next winter, but I don’t think we can trade both Strip and Maeda without getting Price. That’s just putting too much on two injured guys (Wood, Nelson) and three youngsters (May, Urias, Gonsolin).
The article on the Dodgers website about the Dodgers acquiring Betts has been taken down/deleted.
A sign that this trade is dead?
I find this article interesting…
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/mookie-betts-trade-underscores-nl-west-imbalance/
Wow lmao I just said the same shit, pardon my French but this is hogwash and it has turned out to be an absolute joke!!! Keep speaking my friend.
This is becoming a prime example why Dodger fans should appreciate AF. Being disciplined and making solid baseball decisions regardless of how your fan base initially reacts is not easy. But it builds sustainable, winning teams.
AF was a shredded by fans and some writers for the Farmer trade. Even I was a bit taken aback. How did that end up? After the trade between Cleveland and SD the Reds ended up giving up J Gray and J Downs to the Dodgers, Taylor Trammell to the Padres (he’s ranked #2 in SD’s loaded system) Puig to Cleveland and Matt Kemp was released. So they needed up with a half season of Puig (didn’t exactly light it up, and nobody seems to want him as a FA) Kyle Farmer and a half season of Trevor Bauer. Who had an ERA north of 6.00 for the Reds. That’s utter crap for giving three major prospects.
That trade, in hindsight, was utterly brilliant. The Reds would take a mulligan on that trade in a heart beat. And it was only a year ago.
But AF was crucified in some circles for that move. He knew he would be. But he also knew it was the right move and pulled the trigger.
If Boston wants to run their organization by licking their finger, sticking out the window of Fenway Park and seeing what direction the wind is blowing (any given moment); let them.
I still want these trades to go through. But I’m getting the feeling Boston as an organization has already lost a tremendous amount of credibility. With other teams, with players and with agents. And don’t think the last doesn’t matter. Who will want to negotiate with a GM or DBO if you think owner will go back on a deal if the Boston sports writers say some unkind things or fans on Twitter lose their minds?
I’m at the point where I think there is already damage done, even if the trade is ultimately completed. Boston might pull out because they might not have much more to lose. Other than the fact that the trade makes sense for them. Vurdugo and a late inning stud for losing 1 year of Betts, unloading an aging starter who isn’t happy in Boston and saving around $75m is not a bad deal. It’s a good baseball move.
I’m just glad we have AF who only cares about the baseball moves.
I say walk away and let Boston fans enjoy the suck for a half decade or more. Screw em.
Keep Verdugo. Take the fireballer from the Twins. Send Joc and Strip to the Angels, get Rengifo and a couple other prospects and look for more moves that could improve the team. We would open up more salary room and be even more loaded with trade chips.
I’ve had enough of this BS.
WTF has happened to Baseball??
Trade Maeda for Brusdar Graterol. Sign Mookie after the season. Keep Stripling. Next year’s outfield will be Verdugo, Bellinger, and Betts. Run a full page add in the Boston Globe thanking John Henry for his dishonesty.
Twins pulling out of the deal and will keep Brusdar Graterol:
http://strib.mn/2H7fo9Q
The Twins just puked out.
That will,make Arte to blow a gasket!!!! We’re still the only team that can afford to take both Price and Betts so this deal will get done
Send Pederson and Stripling to Boston. That will make them better this year.
Keep Pages.
We can best screw Boston by getting this deal done and AF will do it! Face saving move by Boston. If we have to throw in a little more it’s still worth it. I’m excited about Price. If he can stay healthy I think he could be a major surprise this year.
This is turning into a complete mess. The Dodgers should do the SD and Minnesota trades and tell Boston to go screw themselves. This is Bloom’s first trade and will forever tarnish his reputation for anyone ever doing a trade with him in the future. Henry is a complete scumbag and is the main reason this has fallen apart (along with the Boston media backlash). Henry wants to save money to get under the luxury tax threshold. He’s a damn billionaire and what’s $78 million (Betts and Price’s salary plus all the tax penalties) to him. It’s not even coming out of his pocket. It’s generated out of team’s revenues. I say let them choke on the money and getting nothing for Betts, paying Price $96M for three years, losing draft position, and not possibly making a trade with anyone in the future. And just to add a cherry on top get busted for cheating a second time in 2018. It’s a close tie on who I despise more, the Astros or Boston. Baseball doesn’t need this BS right now and we know Manfred doesn’t have the balls to get involved.
So, if above happens we have Graterol, Rengifo, Verdugo, two prospects, and another $15-20M in cap space to use for any trade deadline moves. I’m OK with that. And, again, screw Boston, Henry and Bloom.
Patience grasshopper. AF will figure a way to get this deal done
Ship Maeda and Zuniga to Boston with Verdugo and let the Red Sox and Twins figure it out.
~
The trade needs to get figured out. You can’t have Maeda coming back and being told sorry we tried to trade you know you’re going to the pen. Sorry, Joc. Despite your 36 HR’s, you’re sitting on the bench until AJ gets hurt. Suck it up, like it, and forget about the arbitration hearing too.
If this deal falls through, Boston’s front office will have tarnished it’s reputation beyond repair. Not only have they alienated three organizations that were affected by the trade, but they have shown a “rabbit ears” mentality, cow towing to their fickle fan base and media that criticizes just about everything under the sun. Could you imagine what the Dodger organization would be had they listened to and acted according to the desires of rabid fans that constantly send critical tweets and comments at some of the popular blogs? We’d have a payroll of $500 million and a barren farm system.
Freidman has the patience of Job and it is probably one of his greatest attributes, but enough is enough. Boston knew what they were getting and suddenly got cold feet after listening to the vitriol from its fan base who thought one year of Mookie Betts and an albatross contract laden Price deserved numerous top 100 prospects. This isn’t 2012 anymore and Colletti isn’t around to bail them out of their foolish spending again. I hate to move on, because I really like Betts, but there may be no other alternative.
I didn’t think I could dislike a franchise more than Houston, but Boston Just might surpass them soon.
When we were boys, we played non-organized sports during recess or after school. Softball, touch football. We played because it was fun. We made our own calls as to whether a ball was fair or foul, or whether someone was safe our out on the basepaths. Occasionally there was a dispute , but mostly not. Rarely, someone would call something which did not seem right, just to benefit his team, but mostly everyone was honest, wanted to play fair. It’s just what one did, what one learned about good sportsmanship and wanting a fair game.
Well, now organized sports is a trillion dollar business. And the world has changed in sports and outside of it. It’s not to say that everything was wonderful back then, there were always bad people and cheaters. But now, it has become a modus vivendi, a way of life, for far too many people; do anything you can to “win.” Politics, the boardroom, and the playing field. Lie, cheat, manipulate people, all in service of getting what you want. It has suffused our entire society now.
A man was said to be as good as his word. You promise something, you do it. You shake hands, and that means something.. Now we’ve got the Astros blatantly cheating, and apparently this was planned and gamed out for years. And all they get is a mild punishment, because of course MLB wants profits above all, so crippling the franchise with sanctions will cost the league money. Now we have the Red Sox, who make a complicated deal, and then the owner decides that it was not a good deal, he is getting criticized by the hometown newspaper, which actually urges them to bail out of it. So he uses a bogus excuse about one of the players to try to extort more and better players out of the Dodgers. “Why not, ” he thinks. “Win any way you can.”
I was really looking forward to seeing Betts on the Dodgers. It’s not the most important thing in the world, of course. But sports is still supposed to offer some relief from the awful things going on in the country and the world. If it is going to be just another haven for crooks and liars and cheaters, what is the point? How can anyone have much faith that there is not Astros-type cheating going on every year? Or that your hometown team can make a trade deal, and then one of the other teams will just renege on it?
I don’t think that the Dodgers should have made the deal with the Angels until the Red Sox deal went through. They were not linked, except that maybe the Dodgers needed to stay under the CBT. But they expected Boston not to go back on their word. Now they are in the position of either acceding to Boston’s new demands, or having it all blow up, have players returned to them who will not be happy, and will, in the case of Pederson, never play here after this year. This would be four players–Verdugo, Perderson, Stripling, Maeda–who would all be sent back after trading them. The Dodgers didn’t back out of anything, they acted in good faith, as all should do, but do not. And the Boston paper which urged the owners do back out of the deal, is to blame as well.
If there is no “honor” in sports, or politics or government or the place you work, we are back to Hobbes’ description of nature being ‘the war of all against all.” That was something that Hobbes came up with to rationalize his support for monarchies, where people gave up their individual rights in order to have some protection and order. We don’t want that, we do not want a society where we are told that we must submit to a dictator. Left to ourselves, we want to be able to interact based on a sense of decency, what has been called “the golden rule.” Play fair, use good sportsmanship, be a person of your word. If that is lost, if no one can be trusted, we have devolved as a species, forced to live in a state of perpetual cynicism and distrust. where every other person only sees you as someone they want to manipulate for their own ends.
I know of kinda out of the loop here, so is the trade cancelled or……
I was ecstatic about getting both Mookie Betts and David Price. That was a bold move I was looking for and AF delivered. Now because John Henry and Chaim Bloom get fleeced, they fall back on a “pending medicals” justification for wanting more. Apparently only Boston baseball executives believed that Graterol was ready to start in MLB.
From NBC Sports- Boston – “As recently as two weeks ago, the Twins made no secret of their plan to pitch Graterol in relief to protect his arm. Consider this, from the Minneapolis Star-Tribune:”
“The Twins are leery of putting too much stress on that elbow, particularly because Graterol uses an unusual whipping motion to produce his amazing velocity.”
“So (pitching coach Wes) Johnson wants to tutor Graterol an inning at a time.”
“We feel that because it is such a violent delivery, if we can clean up some arm stuff, that’s kind of like step one,” Johnson said. “Shorter stints, make sure he’s throwing the right way, and let him get comfortable up here. Right now, I don’t think it would be fair to throw him out there for extended innings.”
TWO WEEKS before the trade, Minnesota reported that Graterol was going to be a reliever with an innings watch. There was no shock as to what the medicals were going to show. Combined with Graterol’s arm action and power, he was an injury waiting to reoccur unless changes were made.
So now three teams have to suffer (I do not include Boston), and at least 7 players and families are placed on hold because Bloom was not ready for the Big Leagues and/or Henry told him to renege because of buyers remorse. Manfred should tell Boston too bad, so sad, you did not due your due diligence about the player before making the deal and he should approve the trade as is. Let Henry sue MLB. Bloom/Henry did not know Graterol could not start? That is on them. Minnesota did not hide anything. THEY REPORTED IT two weeks ago.
On the flip side, this is what happens when teams work so hard to get under the salary cap…er CBT threshold. There is no way that Boston could not afford Mookie/Price and the resultant luxury tax. They signed Eovaldi, they extended Sale, they extended Bogaerts, they signed JDM to a contract even he would not opt out, they tendered JBJ even though they knew they should not. Boston’s FO is a mess and now they want a do-over.
AF holds the cards and he can cancel the deal. He should give Boston a deadline and then walk, and let everyone know that only Boston acted in bad faith, and that no other MLB team should ever approach Boston for a deal or take Bloom’s call. Their word cannot be trusted. I will be depressed because I wanted the makeover, but I will enjoy the team as they were constructed before the “trade”.
Mookie will still get his and I hope the Dodgers break the bank in getting him next year. Something tells me that AF and the ownership group will go the extra $$$$ to get him. I feel very sorry for David Price as he is miserable in Boston and I believe he would have flourished in LA. I worry about Verdugo as he always seems to be on the edge anyway. Will he feel unwanted? I hope not, and I hope he plays with a chip on his shoulder. I feel for Joc as he not only lost an arbitration case, but also a chance to start over in Anaheim. He will be a FA and should do well next winter. I am torn on Strip as he is one of my favorites, but I would have loved to see him as a regular in the Angels rotation. If any player can be unaffected by this mess, it is Strip. I feel for Maeda because he was going to a rotation as a legit #3 and would find himself on a potential playoff roster as a starter, something he would not do as a Dodger. I will feel doubly depressed because I am going to have to read again how incompetent AF is for his role in all of this.
Boston, suck it up and finish what you agreed to, or AF tell them to pound sand. I have never been a NYY fan, but for 26 games next year I will be rooting big time for them. 19 against Boston and 7 against the asterisks.
Right Mark, it’s just business because we all know when you smoke dope you get the munchies and need to drink a lot of water! Take an extra day and get over to Camelback and get Mookie’s autograph!
Wow, learn something every day. I didn’t know Arizona had a cannabis expo.
As I said yesterday, I don’t think there is anything wrong with Graterol, I’d take him. Glad Scott Boras pointed that out. Good for the union pretty much calling the delay nonsense. Even Artie Moreno is upset. I don’t blame him. I’m sure the Dodgers are furious and the Twins aren’t exactly happy. Rob Manfred probably isn’t real comfortable now that everybody is getting angry. Choppy waters ahead.
It wasn’t just Bob Nightengale saying it would be done Friday, Mark Feinsand said progress was being made between the Twins and Red Sox, indicating the deal could be finalized as early as Friday. Someone on MLB radio indicated that as well. Will this be the day? Something has to give.
This is certainly not as complicated as some of the insiders make it out to be. Of course, it’s one sided in terms of the player exchange. You don’t get to dump that kind of money and then win the player exchange too.
I wouldn’t hold up the Angel trade, just do it. You’re not putting the toothpaste back in the tube. Someone said that yesterday. Pederson is not exactly a happy camper and his frustration regarding playing time has surfaced, not to mention his arbitration loss. His anger is real. He needs to move on. Great opportunity for Ross Stripling.
The Dodgers still have rotation depth and outfield depth. If the Red Sox don’t want the Twins pitcher, the Dodgers should complete the Maeda trade and keep him.
The Dodgers can still make the Red Sox deal with one of the other packages, centered around Verdugo, Downs and Ferguson. Not a bad return.
I can’t see them giving up Tony Gonsolin. Lots of rumors flying, most probably have no basis in fact.
Time to end this nonsense. Do it or don’t do it.
Agree, agree, and agree again with everything you said Mark. And yes, if punishment for the cheating scandal needs to be handed down, the commissioner needs to do so with an exceptionally heavy hand.
My guess, John Henry had to sign-off on the deal before Bloom agreed to the trade. Henry had to approve eating half of Price’s contract, as well as trading Betts, one of the best players in MLB for Verdugo and a pitching prospect. If this trade craters then it is hard to see Bloom staying very long in Boston. Either Henry loses confidence in Bloom, or Bloom losing his credibility / integrity in MLB because of Henry bides his time until he can find another job. I still believe this trade will go through; it may take a phone call from Manfred to Henry, Walters, and Pohlad telling them the MLB cannot afford another black-eye and to fix-it, but it will get done.
I agree with you Mark. I would offer maybe an A player, and that is all. Gonsolin would not be part of the deal. If they would not accept, than walk. This is BS.