Logic Trumps Emotion

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1. “But he had a .357 OB% against LHP.” Come on, you know better. His OPS was .655 – nobody is going to continue to play with that kind of OPS. In baseball today, OPS is king.

   Well, true if we look around baseball. OPS indeed looks to be king. But maybe the Dodgers would be well advised to look a little more at OBP when adressing the bottom of their lineup. With all those thumpers at the top and middle of the lineup two high OBP bats would work make this lineup even better. Just let the bottom get on base for the mashers we have. If Outman has an OBP of .357 vs LHP then that is pretty fine with me if he bats Nr. 8 or Nr. 9 even vs LHP.
   And Vargas does not have to be a GG 2b or 3b to get him some additional at bats.
   Listening to Locked on Dodgers today they said that the Dodgers probabl are showcasing Vargas for a trade and that they do not want him to lose trade value putting him in bad situations (eg. vs RHP or 3b). Sounds reasonable to me.

   Cartaya has improved noticeably the last couple weeks and I like his promotion to AAA. He should get more AB there then at AA with Rushing on the roste.r
   DePaula appears to be on GL now getting promoted too. Good move. Put him on the fast track.

   Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

   1. Every teams values OPS because OPS adds on-base percentage and slugging percentage to get one number that unites the two. It’s meant to combine how well a hitter can reach base, with how well he can hit for average and for power. If you had one single stat, OPS or WAR would be King.

      I do not believe they are looking to trade Vargas, but I also believe they would if they could get a 2B or LH outfielder. I believe that any of Pages, Outman, Vargas, and Lux could all be traded in the right deal.

      1. Mark, everybody who reads your excellent Dodgers discussion site knows that nobody but nobody engages in “fantasy game of Outman vs. Vargas” like yourself.
         There are many examples of this. None was more telling as your riff on Aesop, when you portrayed Miguelito as the tortoise (the eventual winner!) to Outman’s hare (a loser). As it turned out, of course, Outman rebounded from his slump and Vargas wound up in OKC.
         It’s worth remembering that you offered this entry into the Book of Moron even though Outman and Vargas weren’t actual , because Vargas was supposed to shine at 2B, while Outman had won the CF job. They weren’t threatening each others’s jobs. In fact, Vargas’s positional rival was Busch–and after Vargas was sent back to OKC , it was Busch who got promoted after the all-star break in ’23. (Over the winter, we speculated that Vargas and Busch could be platooned in LF,)
         But Vargas flamed out at 2B, and now the Dodgers have concluded that Vargas shouldn’t be an infielder. So he and Outman are indeed rivals in the OF. Outman, of course, is a far superior fielder, capable in any role, while Vargas is now on the short side of an LF platoon. Why did it take the Dodgers so many years to decide that Vargas has these limitations on defense? Beats me.
         Right now Vargas is hitting lefties well in a small sample. But as a RH batter, he is competing directly with Pages, Taylor and Kike, all of whom are better, more versatile defenders. The other day, when Roberts decided to summon a righty bat to pinch hit, did he call on the hot-hitting Vargas? Nope. He called on Rojas, a veteran who has also been swinging the bat well.
         I’d have prefered to see Vargas at that moment. I’d be happy with Vargas getting a full-time look in LF. But the Dodgers management, or perhaps just Roberts, no longer seems inclined to give Vargas the kind of opportunity that he was handed in the spring of ’23. Management overestimated Vargas’s defense–but then they overestimated Lux too.
         Anyway, the Dodgers have a lot of RH batters. Outman bats from the left side. He’s probably the team’s best centerfielder, and as you note could platoon with Pages. The best OF defense alignment is probably Teo in LF, Outman in CF and Heyward in RF.
         To me it’s obvious that Vargas would benefit from a trade to a team that could use him at 1B or DH, as well as reconsider his viability as an infielder. Outman’s glove and bat is a better fit for the roster. (By the way, if Outman had maintained a .357 OBP, he’d have never been sent down. )
         And with Mookie destined to take over 2B, where does Lux fit?
         While the Busch deal brought in two nice prospects, I’d prefer to see Lux and Vargas moved in deals that provide immediate impact to the current roster–guys like Robert, Bichette, Crochet, Tanner Scott or Luis Rengifo. (I don’t dismiss the possibility of a deal with the Angels, especially now that Patrick Sandoval is out for the season.)
         And when are we going to see what Lipcius can do?

         1. Some of that is Hyperbole and Falsehoods!

            I would like to see Lipcius.

   2. What is locked on Dodgers?

      Ah, it’s a podcast.

      Any good?

      I’m surprised at how few (if any) good Dodger podcasts there are since Sportswriters Blues.

      1. Dodgers Territory is excellent, with Alanna Rizzo.

         Dodger talk with David Vassegh (and Tim Cates sometimes) is excellent as well.

2. In the minor leagues Vargas has a ,298 career batting average against right handed pitching and a .998 OPS. The kid needs an opportunity and fans quite doggy him on his inability to hit right handed pitching. Give him an opportunity now that he’s healthy and see what he has to give the Dodgers. It was mentioned that Outman was a better outfielder than Vargas, I don’t think you need to be Burt Wells (Dodger scout who signed my Dad) to figure that out.

   1. Outman is also a better CF’er than Pages, who is really a RF’er.

3. Nice win last night. Crochet was as advertised, a tough lefty. Robert Jr. got on base three times, two walks and a double down the line. But did nothing to convince me he is worth what the Sox will ask for. I just am not down with trading for an injury prone player, the same argument I had against trading for Buxton. Bottom of the lineup did all the damage with Miggy getting the party started. Hernandez should be back for tonight’s game.

   1. My first time watching Crochet, and I was really impressed.

      I’d be ok with trading some of our kids for this guy.

      1. Agree

4. Next year’s outfield could be Vargas-Outman-Pages. Vargas needs a lot of work in left field, but he can hit.

   1. I would like to see that.

      1. It’s possible…. but why isn’t Vargas getting ABs against RH pitching now? Back in spring ’23, management gave him the 2B job. Now he’s a minor role player.
         My guess is that management will work out an extension with Teoscar, who has talked about how he loves playing for the Dodgers and is having his best year.
         A deal for Robert is also possible–and if I ran the Sox I’d demand that either Pages or Outman be part of the package. Perhaps Vargas as well.
         Just spitballing here….
         –Vargas + Varland or ??? to Marlins for RP Tanner Scott.
         –Pages + Rushing + Wrobleski + Grove + Sweeney + ?? to White Sox for Robert and Crochet.
         –Lux + Ferris or ?? to Toronto for Bichette.

         I used to routinely include Knack in trade scenarios. But with so many questions in the rotation–Yamamoto, Miller, Buehler, Kershaw, etc–we might need to keep him!

         1. After Vargas got injured, he developed bad habits at the plate and lost confidence. What they are doing with him is taking “baby steps.” While he used to hit RHP in the minors very well, the fact is that he is not this year. Yes, it is a small sampling, but I think they are trying to develop him in a slower manner so that he does not lose confidence, and so far, he looks relaxed and confident… Of course if you believe he is going to be traded, this angle enhances your argument.

            I was a person who suggested last winter that Robert be a Dodger, but again, he has shown a proclivity to get hurt. He has only played one full season in five. He is very injury-prone and unless you could “steal” him for Pages and Vargas, I would not do that at all. I would keep Outman over Pages because he is LH.

            Crochet is also a player with an injury history. From 2020 through 2023, he has pitched 73 innings. He currently has 94 IP this year, and I see no way he will be able to throw over 150 without injury or fatigue. If he throws 150 innings this year, it will more than double what he did combined from 2020 to 2023.

            The Dodgers will be better served to keep all those prospects. They will need them.

            Wrobleski could be better than Crochet THIS YEAR!

5. Vargas is the future Dodgers LF, and Lux ​​will be the next 2b on another team!

   1. I think you are batting .500, Jorge.

   2. I think that Vargas can also play 2B, but he is lanky and long and looks a little awkward, but he did OK in the time he was there. Lux is better defensively, and I still hold out hope for Lux.

6. Seeing the way Lux plays 2nd his through to first are soft,meaning there’s no zip in arm strength.

   1. That’s part of the reason he is not a SS.

      Man, I got crucified for saying that.

      Turns out it was true.

7. once again the dodgers are well equipped for the regular season. With Knack pitching so well they are just fine. it’s playoff time Im worried about! Mark, would Cartaya, Knack, and possibly outman be enough to get The big sox lefty? Would you do that? We can talk position players later!

   1. Well, Crochet has been very good, but he has pitched even fewer innings than Gavin Stone and Stone is going to hit the wall too. I was listening to MLB a few days ago and they all said that whoever trades for Crochet better not count on him.

      1. May not be able to count on him this year. But isn’t Crochet controllable for a couple of years? He could come to LA and go on the il for a couple of months. He couldn’t be a true Dodger without being on the injury list.

         I look at him as someone who could help in the future if not now. So depending on what the Sox want will determine a deal or not. Wrobleski likely would not perform as well without mlb experience. Mb Crochet could work out of the bullpen.

8. Emotion- Lux “frequently” makes bad throws to first that Freddie has to save.
   Logic- Since the beginning of the Yankee series Lux has made 25 throws to first that Freddie hasn’t even had to move his glove from his chest.

   1. I cringe more watching Mookie throw to 1b than Lux

   2. I agree, he is getting better. .. from 2B. Never SS!

   3. Throws from 2B was never the issue. On the other hand, throws from SS that was a quantified occurrence.

   4. I agree.He probably has saved Lux 25 times too.I still think Lux could be a really good hitter.But what is he doing now!Why is he hitting so poorly.

9. 8:10 PM ET

   Dodgers (49-31)
   White Sox (21-59)

   SP Bobby Miller R
   1-1 6.00 ERA
   SP Chris Flexen R
   2-6 5.03 ERA

   Confirmed Lineup
   DH S. Ohtani L
   C Will Smith R
   1B F. Freeman L
   CF Andy Pages R
   RF J. Heyward L
   SS Miguel Rojas R
   2B Gavin Lux L
   LF M. Vargas R
   3B Cavan Biggio L

   34% Rain
   87° Wind 7 mph Out

   NO Teo, Vargas starting against a right handed pitcher

   1. I wonder if Teo has not returned from the DR yet. He was supposed to return today.

10. Hernandez returned to the DR because of the death of his 94 year-old grandmother. She was a huge baseball fan. Report is that he has returned and is in the Dodger clubhouse. Could possibly enter the game later as a pinch hitter.

11. Would not trade for Crochet. Looked good last night and has the advantage of throwing left handed but he is not a great fit for Dodgers this year due to innings limit and starting pitching is not a need for this team next year with Ohtani returning, a potential Sasaki signing, and Wroblieski, Ryan, and perhaps Sheehan ready to start at some point next year (if not sooner for Ryan and Wroblieski).
    Dodgers seem to be more aggressive in promoting players this year – Wroblieski, Karros, DePaula, Gelof, Martin, Cartaya, etc. Change in philosophy or just a coincidence?
    The injuries to Muncy and Betts have had the silver lining of forcing at-bats for Vargas, Pages, Taylor, Hernandez, and Biggio. Should help Dodgers further identify their true needs at trade deadline.
    Is Cartaya considered to be a major league ready defensive catcher or does he need more development in that respect as well?

12. Just looking at the offensive side of the ball it’s a strong NO to Robert Jr. and Dejong.

    Trade for Pham ( bench and starter vs lefties ) and Bichette (S.S),
    include Lux and or Vargas and a few prospects.

    Not sure what the cost would be for Bichette but I in believe he will be a FA after 2025 season. That along with a tough offensive yr so far and time on the IR could bring down the cost a little.

    Update : Bichette comes off IR today.

    I think Bo in LA would be a good fit and he could potentially be our SS for the next 6-7 yrs with continued improvement in the forecast.
    Remember he just turned 26 in March.

    Of course Toronto needs to continue to drop further out of the playoff picture.

    Go Dodgers !!

13. Miller sucks!!!
    He has no idea where the ball is going. He mb still hurt but he didn’t pitch well in the rehab and he has been bad since.

    1. Clearly he is not ready for prime time.

    2. Sounds like Alex Vesia. He was no good either!

       1. If you can’t see that Miller is not quite ready to pitch after his 2-month IL stay, than you have sight and no vision.

          1. He’s not going to get ready to throw to minor-league hitters.

             Yes, it’s obvious that he is not sharp. Maybe you know something the Dodgers don’t…

       2. Right now Vesia is doing great and I am glad he is. For the most part he has now found the strike zone while using his slider effectively. He has never had the control that he is exhibiting now. Mb it was the pitch clock. Mb it is the slider but he has turned it around. As many have said it is only June. Last year at playoff time he had nothing. I would still be biting my finger nails if they put him in the game with runners on and the game on the line. But I would still be rooting for him .

14. Miller and Buehler battling for most disappointing crown!

15. Someone said that the Dodgers don’t need pitching, I agree since LA has Glassnow, and? and? and? Oh that’s right, they have a lot of prospects, many potentially for next season, the good thing is that this season they have Glassnow and….. ???

    1. Absolutely true!! Add an anemic offense who can’t do much against one of the worst pitcher in the majors . He is throwing the ball right down the middle and we got 1 guy who can hit it. This is also one of the worst hitting lineups and worst team in the league. I would put Yarborough in the rotation because we have no one else at this time. Knack is already in and once again we have nothing but a bunch of injured pitchers to choose from. Wrobleski mb, I would rather try him as to watch them trot miller out there.

       1. Reading this comment from Threalten, what would you think the Dodgers record and place in the standings would be?

          1. It’s like this every year with some fans.

             1. My gosh, what more can Gavin Stone do!

       2. ……This is also one of the worst hitting lineups and worst team in the league. I would put……
          That is absolutely a ridiculous statement

16. Glasnow – 2.88 ERA -100 IP
    Yamamoto 2.92 ERA – 74 IP
    Stone 3.04 ERA – 80 IP
    Paxton 3.39 ERA – 71 IP
    Knack – 2.10 ERA – 25 IP
    Miller is struggling – give him time.
    Buehler?
    Kershaw will be back in August
    Then there is Wrobleski and Ryan

    The Dodgers are #3 in ALL OF MLB in Team ERA. #5 in Starter ERA.

    Thats a lot more than Glasnow.

    1. And May will be back. But as a starter or reliever?

       1. No Clue. However, this is a huge reason you don’t make some of the “Dope-Fiend Trades” some fans have suggested.

          Mark Prior was quoted in The Athletic today as saying this:
          
          “I think teams have realized that it’s not a matter of if somebody gets hurt, it’s just a matter of when. And then it’s like, have you constructed a deep 25- and 40-man roster to weather those storms for the year?”

          That is what Friedman has done, and there are contingencies.

       2. Not as a starter. He doesn’t have enough time to build up innings.

17. Gerritt Cole came back for the Yankees tonight and gave up 7 hits, 6 ER and 4 HR in 4 innings.

    Send him back to Single A! Right?

    Silly…Right?

    1. In Cole’s rehab he had a .73 era with 19 ks in 12 innings. There was every reason to believe he was ready for mlb. He had a poor game. Miller on the other hand was terrible in rehab. He had more rehab starts because more than me were concerned about his ineffectiveness. Nothing has changed. He has faced 2 last placed teams and was bad both games. The only reason they brought him back was out of necessity not due to confidence. He has tremendous talent and may catch up but it is only because they have no one else.

       As far as the above stats:
       Glasnow n Yamamoto have been great but Yamamoto is not pitching. stone has been excellent but u said so yourself the innings will mount. Paxton has given LA more than anybody could expect but he is very fragile and has been treated that way. Knack has pitched excellent with only 25 innings. If he was in their plans he wouldn’t have been skipped over a couple of times. So u got 4 going good and 1 awful. As prior not will we have an injury but when. If we have an injury now…. As far as Kershaw mb 50-50, May very doubtful if he pitches this year or ever. Mb Ryan, Wrobleski, or we might weather it but chances are we need to acquire a pitcher.

    2. Gerrit Cole is an established MLB ace. He stays in the rotation, that’s a silly comparison. Miller is no Gerrit Cole and could possibly be sent out for additional work in OKC and he has options.

       If the Dodgers can send down a struggling Outman who was the starting CF I see no reason they can’t send Miller down. I wouldn’t be surprised to see it at all.

       1. I would be shocked!

          Miller is established as well… just not as long.

          Starting pitchers generally pitch 2-3 starts in the minors and come back up because the Big Club Pitching Coach wants to work with him.

          Miller will not go down. If he is healthy – they will let him pitch in the bigs.

          And the fact that Cole pitched so well in the minors meant absolutely NOTHING TONIGHT!

18. I would like to see if the Dodgers could get two Rockies that would help this year’s team. Ryan McMahon plays 3b 2b some 1b good contact hitter some pop and a good fielder. If Muncy looks to be out longer which I hear he might be. And the other Rockies player the Centerfielder Tim Doyle. That guy has speed and patrols that centerfield runs down fly balls great and he puts the ball in play. I am sure the Rockies would like some prospects the dodgers have and like maybe these two players Vargas or Outman. Would improve our defense tremendously and get batters that don’t strike out. Need batters that get on base. That’s what we need. Remember that line from Money Ball just need players to get on base. Be it a walk a base hit or hit by pitch for those big thumper to drive in runs.

    1. 1. The Rockies seldom trade players;
       2. The Rockies never trade with the Dodgers; and
       3. If they did they would want a Kings Ransom.

       1. Nicasio was the last MLB ready player the Rockies have ever traded to the Dodgers, and that was in the winter. One of AF’s first trades. Since then, they have not made a trade. The Rockies picked Jordan Sheffield in the rule 5 draft, and the Dodgers picked up Zac Rosscup off of waivers. Only other transaction was Bruihl sent to Colorado after being DFAd last year. Dodgers-Angels have not made a major trade since AF picked up Kendrick for Heaney.

19. Can we please end the Cavin Biggio reign!

    1. Not sure reign is the right word for what we’re going through.

    2. Of course, the Dodgers know FOR SURE Lipcius is really worse than Biggio
       ….for sure….somehow.

20. Yay! Dodgers win!
    Great bullpen game!
    Outhit 8-7 but Ohtani and freeman homer.

21. Good win: great job by the bullpen again.

    Man, bad management decisions puts stress on the bullpen again.

    Walker and Miller are not ready.

    The problem with bringing Miller up is he had horrendous Rehab starts in the minors. Which was also acknowledged by Doc.

    His batting avg against was over .300 and his whip was .180 with 2 games at Rancho and 2 at OKC

    He should never have been brought up until he Demonstrated he could pitch a game or two with positive results.

    Show some pitch- ability.

    Show the stuff, location/ spin and command, the mental tuff-ness to get out of a tight situation and show recovery after the start.
    He only showed recovery after his starts in the minors. That’s not good enough.

    The idea that a player won’t be up for a AAA game that could get them back to the big show is baloney.
    Can’t continue to stress the bullpen and the pitching staff because of his inability to perform .
    There is no positives that come out of that because he hasn’t demonstrated the capability to do it in the minors (Since)his injury

    That also puts more stress on him. Something he doesn’t need right now.

    Demonstrate some capability during rehab starts and come up, and if you struggle, you struggle, but you reestablished/ demonstrated positive results

    don’t think that him struggling In his rehab starts isnt also weighing on him as he under performers in the MLB games

    Get right in the minors first.

    At some point you’re going to stress a fragile bullpen. And doing it in June-July is just foolish.

    Go Dodgers!!

    PS: Cole is also a veteran and an ace. Miller is at best a number 3 and 25yrs old.

    Cole was out all year and in his rehab starts this year before he came up he produced a .136 batting avg against and a .49 whip.

    Demonstrated success and can now try and work through bumps.

    1. So you’re saying if Cole had had bad rehab starts they should have left him in the minors for a while? I don’t think you and the league as a whole agree as to what rehab starts or even for.
       JMO

22. Good idea Bradley, Brandon Doyle is a very good outfielder. McMahon is a favorite of the owner, Charlie Monfort. The Rockies have made very few trades with the Dodgers over the years. Other than maybe sending minor league players to LA< they have never sent an MLB ready position player to the Dodgers. The last trade they made sent Juan Nicasio to the Dodgers for Noel Cuevas, a minor leaguer. I doubt Monfort allows the GM to trade his favorite player. And since they have never sent a MLB position player to the Dodgers, Doyle won't be traded either.

23. Ohtani tied Roy Campanella with RBIs in 9 straight games. Campy did it in 1955.

24. Eric,

    You should take an English course because you have zero comprehension of what I wrote:

    According to that, Vargas should not play against RHP, at least not right now. He has 15 RH at-bats and 15 LH at-bats, and the Dodgers are putting him in the best position to succeed (right now).

    1. I just finished my course in Englosh as a second language

25. I loved how Rojas got in Miller’s face on the mound. Miller right now is pitching scared. He has no idea where most of his pitches are going, This is the second time he pitched in Chicago,with a large gallery of friends and family and got his ass handed to him. Watching him closely I think he is a head case,more mental issues than physical ones.Rojas will make a great coach and possibly a manager some day.

26. Wednesday schedule
    8 a.m. PT: Great Lakes (Peter Heubeck) at Lake County (Zach Jacobs)
    5 p.m.: Tulsa (Jerming Rosario) vs. Amarillo (Yu-Min Lin)
    6:05 p.m.: Rancho Cucamonga (Carlos Duran) at Lake Elsinore (Jose Luis Reyes)
    6:35 p.m.: Oklahoma City (Chris Vallimont) at Reno (Cristian Mena)

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