Over the last eight seasons, no team has won as many games as Dave Robert’s Dodgers. 753. His teams have won seven division titles, three NL pennants, and a World Series. Lasorda and Alston, probably the two most celebrated managers in Dodger history, never came close to that kind of success.
Different eras, of course. Lasorda’s teams won two World Series, seven years apart. His 1977 and 1978 teams went to the World Series and lost. He lost the 1983 and 1985 playoffs. His team also lost the 1995 playoff series to the Reds.
Alston won Brooklyn’s only title in his second year at the helm. His teams would win three more series in 1959-1963-1965 and lose in 1966 and 1974 before he retired.
Lasorda’s teams had a .526 winning percentage over his 21 years at the helm. Alston’s teams had a .558 in 23 years. Robert’s teams have won at a .630 percentage—the best in MLB history.
Yet Dodger fans consistently call for the team to fire him. It doesn’t matter that his teams have a winning percentage in the postseason; they are 45-39. They cite the last three postseason losses, especially the last two to the Padres and Diamondbacks. And they cite the fact that the Dodgers won only one World Series and that they did that in the shortened pandemic season of 2020.
They were cheated in 2017, but no one knew that until well after the series was over. In 2018, they played a much better team in the Red Sox.
What fans often forget is that all of the teams played under the same rules in 2020. All of the teams and players played in empty stadiums, so you had basically no 10th man. They played under conditions no MLB teams have ever had to play under before.
Then in order to even get to the World Series, they had to win three postseason series. Wild Card, NLDS, and then the NLCS. They cruised through the first two, beating the Brewers in two games and then sweeping San Diego.
In the NLCS, they went down 3-1 to the Braves. The only win coming on the strength of an 11 run first inning in game three.
They then lost game four. They were down 2-1 before they started their comeback in the sixth inning and won game five, 7-3. They won game three behind the stellar pitching of Walker Buehler and a three run first inning.
Then in game 7, they once again were down 2-0. Will Smith singled in 2 in the bottom of the third to tie. Ozuna untied it in the top of the fourth.
In the bottom of the 6th, Kike hit a homer off of Minter to tie the game. Meanwhile, Julio Urias came in as a relief pitcher in the top of the 7th.
Cody Bellinger hit a home run off of Chris Martin, yes, the same one who pitched for LA in 2022,and they were up 4-3. Urias totally shut down Atlants over the last three innings, and LA was off to the World Series.
Another thing fans forget is that all of these wins, except for the first two over the Brewers, were all played on neutral fields. Fans were not allowed in the stands until the NLCS and then only a limited amount.
So, there was no cheering section until the NLCS and World Series, both played on neutral fields and in order to be the champion, you had to win an unprecedented 13 games in the postseason.
In that postseason, the Dodgers went 13-5. Pretty good. Most fans do agree that during that run, Roberts did perhaps his best-managing job as to his use of the bullpen and starting staff.
It was by far Kershaw’s best postseason of his career. Many of his prior failures were forgotten. The fans were happy, the team was happy, and the fans of other teams denied that it was a legitimate win.
Some Dodger fans have joined that bandwagon over the years, and they point at Roberts as the reason the team has not won a World Series when the team has played a full season.
Roberts is very good at managing egos. He is a great communicator, and his players know exactly where they stand with him. If you were to ask his players, they would probably say they love playing for the guy.
Another knock on Dave is that his teams seem not to have any fire in their bellies. In other words, they lack grit. An example would be Chase Utley; Utley would go out of his way to beat you. And he wanted you to know who was taking you down.
There are not a lot of guys like that on the Dodgers now. Kershaw has that mentality. So does Buehler. Bobby Miller looks like he could bring that to the game, too. But most of the star players, to some, seem too laid back. Mookie and Freddie are the targets of this claim.
Players like Tommy Pham, who looks like he wants to fight you every game, are not on the team. But I believe that is a misconception on the fans’ part. I think all of these guys want to win, and want to win all of the time.
But most of the criticism for the lack of success in the postseason is directed at the manager. He didn’t pull Lynn after he gave up two bombs and allowed him to stay in and give up four. He should have pulled Kershaw in the first inning of game one after he gave up three runs.
He pulled Rich Hill when he was totally shutting down the Red Sox. They point out every pivotal point in a loss. And they throw the guy who made the decision under the bus, and not the player.
No matter what move he made, it was the wrong one. It is on Roberts and not the player. But the fact remains that the player failed to perform when most needed. He did send Kersh back out in the 8th inning of game 5 in 2019, and he gave up back-to-back homers to Rendon and Soto to tie the game.
He probably thought Kersh could get the lefty-hitting Soto out. He would have been better served by letting Maeda start the inning. But the offense also got nothing going against the Nats pen after they had scored three off of Strasburg.
With the best team in the majors in 22, his team lost to a team they dominated during the season. In 23, with a team that was so decimated in the starting rotation and still managed to win 100 games they again lost to a team they owned all year and lost to two pitchers they have owned their entire careers.
In 2024, he is not going to have any excuses. This organization went out and spent over 1 billion dollars on the two best free agents at their position this year. Then they traded for another pitcher and extended him for 5 years at over 100 million. They are most likely not finished tweaking the roster before spring training starts a little over 7 weeks from now.
Dave is definitely under the microscope this year. It is a World Series win or bust. I honestly believe his team has to win this year, or a change will be coming.
I 100% agree that Doc is on the hot set in 2024. Perhaps no fan base is as fickle as Dodger fans, and while it was not nearly as true with Lasorda and Alston when Dave Roberts made a movie that did not work, the fans blame him, even though he was not the guy hitting or pitching and when he succeeds, they say that the Dodgers won “despite him.” It is a preconceived idea that is not going away, so to appease the fans, if the Dodgers do not win the World Series in 2024, he will likely be the sacrificial lamb… and the next manager likely will not be as good! The next manager will also not be Chase Utley! He wants no part of that life.
The Giants never won when they had the best p[layer in baseball, but they did win when the team was not as good talent-wise. They won with pitchers like MadBum, who had a career 3.47 ERA in the regular season but turned into Sandy Koufax in the playoffs. In 12 playoff series, Mad Bum had a 2.11 ERA! Bruce Bochy is regarded as a genius, but it’s the players who made him look like that. OTOH, Doc had Clayton Kershaw, who was unbelievable in the regular season with a career 2.48 ERA, but in the playoffs, he turned into Pee Wee Herman with a 4.49 ERA, and some of his meltdowns were epic.
When players exceed expectations, fans tend to believe the managers are geniuses! So, yes, Doc is on the hot seat!
The seat has never been HOTTER for Dave Roberts in 2024. World Series or Bust has never been truer!!! You don’t fire 26 players, you fire the guy that is responsible for the game decision making. You don’t spend a billion plus and expect to finish second or runner-up. Expectations have NEVER been higher.
No question! He’ll probably even get blowback if we win it all but didn’t sweep everyone!
Report: Dodgers to introduce Yoshinobu Yamamoto on Wednesday
The Dodgers must announce a corresponding 40-man roster move when Yamamoto’s contract becomes official.
Bye bye Hudson
I hope not.
Bryan not Daniel. The elder Hudson is not on the 40 man.
I have supported Doc as Manager over the years. There has always been the argument that anyone could have won with the talent he had. Two or three times I presented the records of many Managers (most of which are in the Hall of Fame) who had great talent yet did not even come close to Doc’s winning percentage.
I even remember several posters arguing that guys like Bob Melvin were so much better at managing than Doc. Yet, last year the great Melvin had great talent and still did not even make the playoffs.
Unfortunately I am afraid that Bear, Mark, and AVF are right that winning it all is essential to Doc’s keeping his job this year. The only that might argue that is the fact that Kasten stuck with Bobby Cox during all those division titles with only 1 WS win.
The term “crap shoot” when talking about the post season has been used ad nauseam on this site. I have always thought of it that “anything can happen in a short series” and seems to happen often. I know I am probably in the minority but I truly hope Doc is measured by his overall body of work and not the results of 3 short series in any given year. If winning the WS is the only measure of his longevity, it is only a matter of time before he is canned because I’m absolutely sure the Dodgers will not win the WS every year.
Happy New Year to all and yes, I do hope we go all the way.
If Dave Roberts is the problem, it’s a good problem to have. I get it, some fans want to simplify things. If things go south, blame the manager. Should have done this, not that. Not quite that easy.
What Dave does well is manage a lot of personalities and egos, keeps them focused. Not easy to win a hundred games.
You could make the case when they won in 2020 and yes, that’s legitimate, every organization had to compete under the same rules and format, that Corey Seager stepped up and made the difference. The Dodgers won. How many times did Seager deliver? There was a reason he was the MVP of both the World Series and NL championship. The only real problem is that there no Parade.
Even Bruce Bochy said the key to the Rangers winning this year centered around Seager, who again delivered repeatedly for Texas. Would Seager have made a difference if he was a Dodger this year. No, not really. The Dodger starting pitching was a mess.
No Urias, No May, No Gonsolin and Kershaw needed surgery. Then they didn’t hit.
So it’s actually players stepping up that make the real difference. Wow. Imagine that.
The past couple of years, the Dodgers had multiple injuries and that derailed them. If they stay healthy this year, I like their odds of winning it all.
This is an interesting gambit. The Dodgers have never gone in to this level. One of the reasons Friedman has been so successful is his ability to stay flexible, not to become anchored to big contracts. Because of their financial clout and the pursuit of massive new revenue streams, I’m not sure they will be anchored down by a massive payroll.
Free agency and long term contracts seldom, if ever, work out for teams. Certainly not over the long haul. Maybe the Dodgers can do both.
Are they done? Maybe not, Gomes says they’re still looking for another pitcher. Probably not a big contract. I still think Miller and Sheehan are difference makers on the mound.
What strikes me as really funny is that some fans who criticized the Dodgers for losing out on free agents in the past or not retaining Seager, are now criticizing them for all the money they are now spending. Just can’t win with some people.
So just enjoy the ride. We’re in unexplored territory here. Probably going to be a lot of fun.
I thought Doc should have been Manager of the Year, last regular season. Everybody who pays attention can pick out in-game moves over the years where Doc’s been wrong, as it turned out. Sometimes he hasn’t put his player in the best situation to succeed. But winning 100 games with all of the injuries in the regular season, was remarkable. Doc had nothing to do with putting the bats in the freezer or our pitching woes in the playoffs. I might have started Pepiot instead of Lynn but those are the hard choices that have to be made and I’m not sure Doc had the only vote on that one. I thought Doc was masterful last year.
What I will remember most about the ‘23 postseason was Kershaw , Mookie, and Freddie, all future Hall of Famers, melting like fondue. Kershaw had an excuse. He probably shouldn’t have been out there. Mookie and Freddie have no excuse. They choked. And none of that is on Roberts.
Yes, much is expected of the team next year. The TEAM. The team consists of 40 players. If they do what they are getting paid to do, the team will win.
Dave Roberts makes about $6.5 million a year, less than what they are paying Joe Kelly. There is debate on the value of managers but some stats show the best managers in baseball over the years are said to be worth at best about 1-2 WAR. So being paid less than Joe Kelly, should tell you what the Dodgers think their manager is worth.
It’s the players. Always. They play like they are paid to play, the manager will lead them to victory. They swallow olives, like Kershaw, Mookie, and Freddie did, the team will lose, and those that don’t understand will likely blame the manager.
An unenthusiastic vote for Doc.
Dave Roberts. “Doc.” We spend too much time thinking about him. He’s marginally OK. He’s rarely an observable asset, but in the playoffs he seems to become an observable detriment. Surprisingly, I’m luke warm with Doc; he does what he’s told. He’s a beta manager; an appendage of the Dodger brass. I feel he did his best work last year with a very flawed and injured team. But he reverted back to losing in the playoffs as the Dodgers played at an incredibly low inspirational level. I don’t see that as Doc’s fault. Five key players blew that series up; Mookie, Fred, Kershaw, Miller, and Lynn. Doc gets a pass from me. For once he couldn’t really screw it up. Not that it mattered but I did feel his awareness level of team energy was too foggy; sometimes Doc (who often fits the image of being “a day late and a dollar short”) reacted as if he was an hour or two behind game time. But that’s Doc; he’s not a student of the game; he’s a water carrier.
Roberts is mentally unqualified for a water carrier job. He doesn’t win games for the Dodgers but he sure loses several. Particularly when the spotlight is on him like in the playoffs. We need to put Betts back in RF. Stop giving him his way. Also take him out of leadoff. But what Mookie wants Mookie gets. How about a manager with a backbone?! With Betts in the outfield we can put Busch at second. I wonder how popular he would be if he was Bob Betts? Mookie want a cookie?
Also, DFA Vargas. (JK. Wanted to get Mark’s BP to skyrocket.)
Way off the mark. The main reason is protecting their 300 million dollar investment by reducing his risk of injury. And your going to put an untried rookie at second, who is in no way defensively as Betts???? Not happening.
Nope, right on the mark! Yes I would put Busch at second and let Mookie keep complaining that it’s too far to run to the dugout from right field. Infield and outfield problems solved – except canning Barnes. Kershaw can cry about that too.
I’m so glad Ohtani forced Friedbrain to get top players instead of his normal cheap a$$ dumpster dives and cemetery raids.
You are soooooooooooooo wrong in soooooooooooo many ways.
Was the whole thing a joke (hopefully) or just the last sentence?
Nope, he says this kind of crap all of the time.
I’m concerned. I think you’re losing your grasp on reality 🙁
I am concerned that you think your opinion is reality. You live in fantasyland. Wake up and smell something other than crap.
Saying stupid stuff does not affect my Blood Pressure. It’s quite humorous actually.
Excellent then. Excellent indeed.
I’m not sure, but I think Teoscar Hernández is still a free agent, also Tim Anderson, both would be good options, Teoscar much better, but only in case Lux (whom I join the list of “I don’t think is a shortstop) Anderson it would be cheap.
Jorge, despite his power, he is a strikeout machine. He k’d 211 times last year. He is mainly a right fielder. He has played a little over 200 games in left. I like Anderson, but I am pretty sure AF is committed to giving Lux the SS job. Hernandez does though hit for a higher average than a lot of strikeout hitters. His OPS last season was below .800. But it is over .800 for his career. Decent fielder, not spectacular or Gold Glove caliber.
Fire him now just for kicks.
Won’t happen.
Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas. I am heading home to Colorado this Friday. I will be there by Sunday sometime as I am stopping in Az to see an old friend. As for Roberts, I have long questioned his strategy’s. I never have thought he was a great situational manager, but then there are few of those guys in baseball today. But as Badger says, it is always on the players. But as was also stated, you cannot fire all of the players. But I saw both Alston and Lasorda make decisions that cost the team a win. Charlie Dressen made a decision to bring in Ralph Branca, even though he had given up a homer to Thompson earlier in the playoffs, based on a coach telling him that Erskine had bounced a curveball in the dirt while warming up. Erskine’s curve, according to the catcher who was warming him up, was nasty that day. Might have been the difference between going to the World Series or going home. Alston sent a totally gassed Ed Roebuck back out to the mound in game 3 of the 62 playoffs against the Giants nursing a 4-2 lead. This when Big D had volunteered to pitch. Alston’s reasoning? He needed Drysdale to pitch the opener of the World Series. He totally forgot you have to get there first. Roebuck was ineffective, he brings in Williams, who was wilder than a March hare, and the game is lost.
Lasorda decided to pitch to Jack Clark with the game on the line and a guy hitting .167 for the series in the on-deck circle. Nuff said. Over his time here, Roberts has been a winner. At least his players love playing for the guy. His in season gaffs have not really hurt the team and they have continued winning. The postseason is a different animal. There is more pressure to win. Players react differently. Some respond to the pressure and some do not.
The Case Against Doc. Why Doc has been an overall disappointment.
Mark has offered consistent support of Roberts, continually swooning over Doc’s regular season record. But who really cares? Are any of you are really invested in regular season records? It’s such a weak bragging point that it seems trite to even bring it up. Doc won’t be fired because of his regular season record. He’s stellar against weaker competition; at least in the regular season. It’s about his playoff record. It’s only about how he and his players don’t perform in the playoffs. And his playoff record (against playoff caliber teams) drops way off. And he finds a way to lose to the shit teams also. Seriously, are any of you who are pro-Dave Roberts satisfied with his managing in the Playoffs (or his results)?
Apologists can have a plethora of random excuses why the Dodgers underachieve in the playoffs. None of that changes the fact that they have consistently underachieved. It’s a pattern. There’s always a new and novel reason for failure that apologists promote. The latest convenient excuse utilizes the buzz-word “crapshoot,” as if it explains the meaning of life. Seems like the NBA is a crapshoot too, but the best team usually wins. It’s not that the Dodger just lose in the playoffs. It’s that they don’t show up. They get creamed; hosed; exposed; punked; and humiliated. Roberts needs to take a good portion of the blame for the Dodger’s turning into dandelions and becoming non competitive. Consider the recent playoff performance by the Rangers, winning a string of road games rather heroically in Houston, Tampa, Baltimore, and Arizona. That’s the type competitive spirit that the Dodgers have lacked. Dare I say “Bochy?” Naw, he had nothing to do it……
Had it not been for the cheating he’d have 2 titles in 7 years. I think any franchise would take that.
The best is yet to come….
The modern Playoff format DOES not crown the best team, we’ve re-hashed that time and again and its been proven.
Hopefully 24 is the Dodgers year to be the best team for a 3 week period…
I wouldn’t compare the NBA with baseball. In basketball, one player can have an outsized impact on team performance. Baseball is not like that.
I have never had anyone successfully explain to me how the earth is flat.
I have also never had anyone explain to me how a manager can be good in the regular season and then bad in the playoffs.
Maybe there is no argument.
Regular season records being indicative of nothing is a curious underpinning.
Are the results of a three or five game season a better sample?
Unless the Dodgers see something they believe can be fixed, I’d pass on Teoscar. If you think Muncy’s high K rate is frustrating, wait until you see Teoscar. When he’s bad, he looks lost at the plate.
In terms of Roberts, I believe he could become the scapegoat if the Dodgers experience failure in 24’. However, do I believe it is WS win or bust? That depends on the narrative in my opinion.
I share the opinion that on the field strategies are rarely made in a vacuum. A manager’s duty is typically limited to a) executing an overarching strategy developed in conjunction with or by the front office, b) managing egos/personalities and c) strong media relations. Clearly, Roberts thrives in those areas.
The bigger questions for those who would welcome a change in manager, I ask:
A) Do you believe that the development of in game strategies are left completely up to the manager?
B) If so, what makes you believe a savvy front office which values data analytics would allow a manager to deviate or ignore an overarching strategy?
C) Why would the front office pivot from their current strategy?
I share the opinion that when fans question Roberts game calling, they’re truly questioning the front office strategy.
With the moves the Dodgers have made this off-season the front office has put the team in a great position to win, but the potential for failure is and will always be high. Winning the WS is hard. Really hard, because it hinges on many factors. Factors that are difficult to project and can be random in nature; i.e. who would project that the Rangers pitching staff would yield a WS title? I certainly would not and even after achieving it, who projects the Rangers are going to repeat in 24’? If the answer is, they can’t because the Rangers are losing Montgomery, then why not prioritize the signing of Montgomery since he is the x-factor for winning the title?
Hence, the randomness or crapshoot nature of the playoffs. No one player or single strategy can guarantee a win.
Great post. Clear thinking presented clearly. Well done.
Thank you!
My subjective pet peeves against Doc and why I think he should be fired.
1. He’s a winner and a loser but he always loses when it matters most.
2. He never upsets a better team yet is often upset by inferior teams.
3. He wins games 9-3 but loses the 2-1 games.
4. Seems like the Dodgers lose a lot of extra innings games, too. In other words, when Doc has the competitive advantage he’s a winner; if he doesn’t he’s not clever enough, or inspirational enough to find a way to win.
5. Being an outfielder and pinch-runner as a player he seems to have a poor intuitive feel for pitchers. Sometimes he’s close to being a blithering idiot with his pitching changes. Alston was a catcher; LaSorda a pitcher; Bochy a catcher. These are three examples of managers who are “pitcher-whisperers.” They had/have an affinity for their pitchers that Doc most obviously doesn’t have.
6. Doc often panics in key situations; his body language changes noticeably as he stresses out. He’s in over his head. And it shows in how he manages in pressure situations. He chokes.
7. Doc is a Beta-Brain in several ways. He’s widely perceived as a lackey or a sycophant in the Dodger hierarchy by many fans and pundits. He’s the guy who sharpens the brass’s pencils. He’s not part of the brain trust. He seems to lack his own agency; this turns into a lack of respect.
8. He sometimes seems out of sync with the latest Dodger talking points; as demonstrated in his pre Ohtani signing interview. And he continually botches up injury reports.
9. He’s inarticulate, slurring words and thoughts together, stumbling over pro-nouns, and exhausting the listener into disinterest by speaking his form of “Stengalize.” He talks Fog-Speak. It’s as though he’s making it all up off the top of his head. Hmmm. This creates a somewhat abysmal image of a sloppy actor whose forgotten their lines. It’s hard to feel confident about anything he says.
10. You can’t trust what Dave Roberts says. He misleads, distracts, submits under described non-truths, half-truths and full on lies; sometimes he innocently gives out incorrect information. Ok. Deception is a part of the Dodger’s (un) Ethical Code; don’t we all know that? he gets thrown into a liar’s fire sometimes. But the result is still that we’re getting bs-ed. And Doc is the voice that most often performs the spin.
11. I think the Dodgers are well aware of Doc’s cerebral limitations and shrinking performance in the limelight. They realize he needs a huge competitive edge to win. So they invest over a billion dollars to get the two top free agents on the market. They know that Doc can’t be trusted to win unless the deck is stacked and he has jokers and aces up his sleeves.
12. Other teams, other fans want us to keep Doc because they he’s beatable. They feel that no matter how powerful the dodgers are that given the chance Doc will blow it. No one fears Doc. He’s a symbol of failure. He won’t be remembered for his .630 regular season winning percentage (except by Mark); he’ll be remembered as the guy who couldn’t win the big ones.
Maybe if you had used 300% more words my mind would have been changed.
NOT!
Hi Mark, just for the record, no one is trying to change your mind. Only AF can do that.
You’re rock solid, a candidate for Mt. Rushmore, and reminiscent of the Old Testament patriarchs (Abraham, Jacob, Moses—-those guys). But you’re much more fun. Call it veritas or gravitas or a stiff upper lip…you definitely have it.
And if you’re okay with winning in the regular season and losing in the playoffs I can respect that— even if I don’t share that sentiment.
Furthermore, Doc needs your support now more than ever. The ice is growing thin and I don’t think he can ice skate.
Last thought. If Doc ever does get fired perhaps he could catch on with the Rangers, as one of Bochy’s coaches. Loyal soldiers are hard to find.
Accurate 3rd take
On point 1st take AND TOTALLY LOL!!
As to your points 9/10, this is probably my biggest frustration with Roberts. To be fair, however, one of his main roles is being a PR flack, so he engages in ambiguities and doublespeak. He reminds me of a press secretary for a presidential administration. He has to be on message. There is an art to giving non-answers. He’s not always artful.
I don’t even bother listening to what he has to say most of the time.
I would appreciate straight talk and honesty, but I also understand that, when it comes to things like injuries, there is a privacy component when revealing the health of players. I understand that being too candid can allow an opposing team to game plan a little better.
That said, his style still bugs me. I think he could speak more clearly and frankly and candidly and still avoid misspeaking.
Blind Joe Death
Your #3 point (1 run games) is VERY IMPORTANT in your overall assessment of Doc. The 2 Manager of the year winners last season had the best records in 1 run games. Personally I don’t think awards are given to the right people all the time, but that’s another story. But I think the awards were given to the right managers last season because of 1 run records.
Doc’s record in 1 run games last regular season was 16-15. Barely over .500 AND he had FOUR DOMINANT RELIEVERS to go to last regular season.
Now this is only last regular season and I don’t feel like looking up Doc’s career 1 run record, maybe someone else will.
This isn’t a shot at Doc, it’s just my personal opinion about 1 run games.
By the way, Doc was 6-6 in extra inning games, probably some of them led to some of his 16-15 record in 1 run games.
The Texas Rangers with the GREAT BRUCE BOCHY were 14-22 in 1-run games and 2-8 in extra innings!
Riddle me that!
Bochy has nothing to do with what I said. Or do you think I have praised him? I haven’t.
Bochy is a real manager. Dodgers have a clown. I mailed him a red nose to wear at all times in the dugout.
Bochy is still under .500 in his career in the regular season. If he is such a great manager, what happened in all those years his teams did not even make the playoffs? He is a lucky manager that is for sure.
Winning or losing is always on the players. The manager puts them in a position to succeed. If they fail, you blame the guy who put them in the game? It is always on the players. But the manager gets the blame.
“The manager puts them in a position to succeed.”
That’s not always true.
Okay, why not? They are put into the game to contribute to a team win. That of course only applies when they are close to winning, tied, or maybe a run or two down. The relief corps comes in to save the day or stem the tide. The manager wants them to succeed and do the job they are paid to do. Some do the job with a very good percentage of success. Some not so much. But the manager never puts them in and wants them to not succeed. He believes at that point they are capable of doing the job.
Winning and losing is not always on the players.
If winning and losing is “always on the player” we might as well use Artificial Intelligence to manage. Roberts could carry the line up card to the umpires.
Nostalgia is part of the Dodger chic. They’re Hollywood. Alston and LaSorda were big guys; they were personages, legends, larger than life. They were heart and soul Dodgers—part of the great Dodger lineage of Robinson, Rickey, Durocher, the Duke, Sandy, Maury, Big D, 34, Orel, Garvey, Piazza, Kershaw, etc. By comparison Doc is a sparrow, an affable pip-squeak, a low profile hall monitor, the guy who throws batting practice…who isn’t important enough to really notice or take seriously. To me, he’s a Fringe-Dodger. Other Dodger blogs (that don’t have Mark to protect him) run over Doc with a truck.
I have yet to see a manager make an error in the field that leads to a run, or give up a grand slam homer in the top of the 10th inning to cost you a series. The players win and lose the games. PERIOD>
How can you be so naive to believe this? Roberts has singlehandedly lost numerous games from making errors in strategy, being outsmarted (not hard to do) by opposing managers, poor management of pitchers, and on and on.
If that is so, then why is the “48” in your name the exact number of games Roberts is said to have lost in the last four years from poor decisions? PERIOD. EXCLAMATION POINT.
Different eras and different cultures. Alston managed players who had no other choice but to play for the team they were with because of the reserve clause in their contracts binding them to that team until the team released them. Tommy took over right after the first free agents came into existence. But players were not making the kind of money they are today. Alston’s guys were always fighting for their jobs. Tommy’s had a little more security. Dave’s players for the most part earn enough to last the rest of their lives. Tommy cared less about your ego and he was a rah rah type.
I loved Tommy as the third base coach and then manager. I was spoiled by 50 years of Alston and Lasorda. Now I’m caught in a nightmare/bad joke with Roberts the Clown. Ugh…
You’re slipping. I recommend some time off.
I recommend you write something that makes sense. Managers do not play the game. It is always on the players to perform. Anyone who thinks differently does not know what the hell they are talking about.
Usted piensa que los altos mandos de LA Dodgers son tontos al invertir mas de mil millones de dolares solo para darle una ventaja competitiva al manager (Roberts)? no cree usted que sería mas facil despedirlo y ahorrarse ese monton de dinero y buscarse un manager (Bochy) que les pudiera garantizar titulos de serie mundial porque es un genio de manejador?
Easy for you to say…
I agree. Mark, we need a translation app.
I right clicked on my mouse and it immediately translated it. What he says makes total sense.
Translation:
Do you think the top brass of the LA Dodgers are foolish to invest over a billion dollars just to give the manager (Roberts) a competitive advantage? Don’t you think it would be easier to fire him and save that amount of money and find a manager (Bochy) who could guarantee them world series titles because he is a genius manager?
I think the most important role for a modern manager these days to oversee and manage a culture. Baseball is not really the sum of it’s players’ WAR projections, although talent certainly helps. Look at the Padres. Look at the Mets.
The Dodgers have been wildly successful the last ten years because they have created a system built around a process that works. I think Doc, overall, has been pretty good at managing that at the player level. It helps that AF has also selectively assembled high character personalities. Doc struggled with Puig, but I think any manager would have. Verdugo was wisely shipped out, and his immaturity is now someone else’s problem.
He’s not tactically great, but he’s gotten better over time. His more laissez faire approach to managing a team over a long season has worked, but I do have my concerns with this approach when it comes to the playoffs. The Dodgers have clearly been flat the last two years. We can talk about crapshoots all day, but it is also statistically very unlikely that the team’s two best and most consistently hitters – and the team as a whole – just stop hitting at the most important time. I suspect there is a mental preparation component that has been lacking.
Not to say that a Lasorda-esque locker room tirade is the best way to inspire a team to play at their best, and I can’t say for certain what Doc should do differently or how much he is responsible for the post-season letdowns, but it ultimately falls under the manager’s responsibility to motivate or inspire a team to perform at its best. If it’s because of the players, then sometimes you get rid of them. If you already have good players and a team still consistently doesn’t succeed, that’s on the manager.
I doubt Roberts will get fired anytime soon. For that to happen there will either have to be another really embarrassing collapse and/or there have to be some rumblings that Roberts has lost the clubhouse. The second scenario is worst than the first.
Pretty much this. I think.
I must say after reading Mark’s pro Doc support for the last few years and now apparently Bear seems to be in that camp as well, I have cooled my anti Doc jets somewhat. All time regular season winning percentage, loved by players, great communicator, just following orders company man, overcoming injuries, nice guy, “great managers” making similar poor in game decisions, it’s the all-star players fault by not performing. HOF managers with worse winning percentage, current post season format a “crap shoot”, cheating Astros etc, etc.
Using these rational reasons/excuses one can justify the Dodgers and LADT among others ongoing support for Roberts. This versus the anti Doc camp of; you can’t fire 26 players, can’t motivate during the playoffs, poor post season in game decisions, one of the annually highest payrolls etc, etc has resulted in a 2024 WS trophy or bust mentality. I could hardly agree more! I understand the pov that it’s better to compete each and every year and have an OPPORTUNITY to win a ring each season rather that winning a ring once every five years with losing or mediocre seasons in between winning a WS trophy. Yes, we are spoiled with this current run of regular season success and postseason “success” but imho, we have been jilted at the alter one too many times now. It’s time to put up or shut up for the pro Roberts’ camp.
VIVA AZUL
I am pretty neutral when it comes to managers until they do something that seems to me like it cost the team. No matter what, performance is still on the player. A manager can only do so much. Casey Stengel’s approach was to leave the player alone and just let them play the game. Bob Lemon was also a lot like that. Alston was the Quiet Man. But when he wanted, he had one hell of a temper and was so big and strong even guys like Frank Howard were intimidated. But he never scared Drysdale. I think Roberts is great at managing egos and communicating with his players. Where I think he is lacking is as a baseball strategist. I have seen him out managed more than once. Billy Martin and Tommy were in your face guys. I will never forget Tommy’s profanity laced removal of Doug Rau in the World Series.
That being said, who are you going to replace him with? Baker has retired, Melvin is with the Giants, Scioscia has been out of the game since 2018, but he would be my choice. Hasselman left the Dodgers and went elsewhere. None of their minor league guys have experience in the majors. Maddon? Nah, that ship has sailed. Not many really good candidates out there.
I don’t think is about supporting an individual. It’s about believing the process/system in place. If it’s not Roberts it would be someone else performing the same functions.
Winning the WS is hard. There is no singular formula that guarantees a title. Teams assemble their rosters and develop strategies they believe are going to produce positive results, the rest is up to the players to execute on the field.
Wins and losses are determined during the execution process. It’s ultimately up to the talent on the field.
Would the Houston Astros trade with the dodgers these player starting pitcher left handed Framber Valdez and starting every day outfielder Kyle Tucker in rightgoeld for say the dodger Michael Busch Miguel Vargas catcher Cartaya and pitcher Stone and Pages if the dodgers do that there’s your every day right fielder with some thump and Heyward and Margot Taylor in Leftfield yep think that trade works for both teams
Somebody would have to be smoking a lot of funny stuff….
I heard that as a rumor on you tube heck yeah I would do that trade Astros are thinking about tracing away Tucker and Bergman new manager and I guess new people they want. That’s what the rumor is maybe both are going to be free agents so they trade them now and get something for them. Since it sounds like nobody in here what’s any of the free agent outfielders I mentioned but if bear or mark mention someone it’s like oh yeah go get that guy. But if I say someone it’s like are you crazy Brad. What would be wrong with Addames Yelich and Burnes for the Dodgers I say that and beae is like no way is it going to happen um Lux is from Wisconsin Busch and Sheehan and two more minor league guys for them and Yelich wouldnt be bad to have in LF every day.
Idiotic Bradley. It has to do with the fact that the team is lefty heavy. It also has to do with the fact that 9 times out of 10 the players you mention are not on the market or likely to be traded by their team. Tucker is one of the main players for the Astros. You think they are just going to throw in the towel?? They are trying to win pennants too. Yelich is owed over 120 million over the rest of his contract. He too hits left-handed. Adames and Burnes would be rentals. And Adames strikes out more than Muncy does. Yes, he is a good SS, but they are going with Lux, who is younger and more athletic.
If you were the Astros would you do that?
Kyle Tucker is one of the best under-the-radar players in the game, and he’s under cheap team control for another two years.
It depends upon how drugged I was.
I say call the Yankees get Judge and Soto and Gerrit Cole.
There, we have our right fielder and left fielder and Outman in center. And Cole can slot in between Yamamoto and Glasnow.
Send them Busch/Vargas, Cartaya/Rushing, Stone, Frasso, and Chris Taylor.
I say just give the Yankees,Barnes ,next year 45th round pick,and a sweet potato pie.
Under the radar?
I don’t think so. Tucker was an all-star and got MVP votes. There were complaint that he was “snubbed” in favor of 3rd place finalist Marcus Semien.
There has been a report that Framber Valdez might be traded. Dodgers should at least explore the possibility. What if the Astros coveted Cartaya? Never know unless you ask.
Tucker hit’s left-handed. The team is lefty heavy already. Other than Valdez, that trade makes no sense at all. Getting Valdez alone would cost maybe four players.
In case you missed it above:
The Texas Rangers with the GREAT BRUCE BOCHY were 14-22 in 1-run games and 2-8 in extra innings!
Riddle me that!
I do NOT believe Doc will be on the hot seat exactly because of what Blake Treinen said about winning a championship: “….fans have no idea how hard it is because it takes three things to win a championship: (1) Talent, (2) Health, and (3) Luck…”
The Dodgers have one of those things heading into the season. Numbers 2 and 3 are guaranteed to no team. Especially after a 162 game season. Doc doesn’t figure into any of the three of them. If he has no talent the Dodgers would not be the winningest team in MLB during his tenure and he wouldn’t be THE winningest manager in MLB history. Nothing and no one can guarantee their health over such a long season and clearly they have not had much luck except for 2017 when they were cheated out of it and 2020 when they won it all.
You naysayers keep on saying it. He will make you eat your words eventually as long as HIS health and luck holds up.
I don’t think the fans care what Treinen says about how hard it is to win. And this is not the only blog to say Doc is on the griddle.
Duh Kyle Tucker hits left handed and bombs better then swing and miss Vargas Busch or Taylor hell yeah I would take Kyle tucker for four players it was a rumor I read.
And if they really wanted a left fielder and every day guy the dodgers could go get Roberts JR from the White Sox but they don’t gie some reason so they must have a better offer then what we think they do.
I am glad you mentioned Kyle Tucker! He is a classic example of why you need to be patient with prospects.
In his first call-up (72 PA), he hit .141. The next season in 72 PA (again), he hit .269.
In his 3rd callup (228 PA), he hit .268. Finally, in his 4th callup (over 4 years), he became one of the best right fielders in baseball as he hit .294 with 30 HR and put up a .917 OPS.
In parts of 5 seasons in the minors, he hit .283 with a .863 OPS.
In parts of 5 seasons in the minors, Miguel Vargas hit .310 with a .879 OPS.
In parts of 4 seasons in the minors, Michael Busch hit .283 with a .919 OPS.
Why do you always want to trade guys away? Progress is not linear… player development takes time, but good things come to those who wait. Bad things come to dope-fiends.
Rec
Good info. Did not know that about Tucker.
Tucker’s name has not been mentioned anywhere as trade bait. I have heard Valdez and Bregman. So how can they trade for a guy who isn’t on the table?
I have always felt that the LAD were management by committee. If that is correct, it seems to work well in the regular season, but not so well in post season. Perhaps they need to analyze their approach rather than who is the manager.
I think these trade & Free Agent signings just reinforced Doc tenure in Dodger blue. Now is less chance to Doc to do all those things you guys think he (without remedy or cure) will do, like a “Doc Curse” or something like that.
I wil tell you a story of management. Around 1967-69, Winter PR Baseball League, semifinals 7th game, Santurce Crabbers vs. San Juan Senators. Santurce manager was Frank Robinson. Pitching for Santurce was future ace Jim Palmer, 1st batter, cuban journey man CF Jose Cardenal bat a HR. Palmer proceeded to strikeout the next 8 batters. JCardenal come again & then Cardenal hit another dinger. FRobinson brought Kindo Geigel!! This pitcher came to the mound with 2 gloves because he pitched from both arms. He was really bad as a righty but was even worse as a lefty!! Okay, the games just went out of hand and we lost. You just can imagine FRobinson has to be protected by the police to get out of the ballpark and not get linched. 50 years later reading an excellent blog about the golden era of winterball, I finally knew that like many pitchers in the time, were monitored by the main MLB team and JPalmer was in a pitch count and FRobinson was only following orders from Baltimore.
I think Doc Roberts will be Dodgers manager at least the years SOthani is a Dodger.
I agree with Bear that Doc is not a great baseball strategist. Maybe he needs a more veteran bench coach (not named Bob Geren or Danny Lehmann). I had a problem last playoff with his predictable use of his platoons. He flipped the lineup too early that caused matchup issues and a lack of available players late in the game. Seems the brass loves platoons. Doc’s made his share of questionable strategic moves. But who hasn’t? If the players come through, it’s no harm, no foul. When it fails, fire the bastard.
The perceived motivational deficiencies of Doc are laughable. Do you really think pregame pep talks or profanity laced triads have an impact on professional athletes on a regular basis? Many here seem to believe that shit works?
Some guys play better angry and snort fire. That’s swell for a handful of players. A relief pitcher in a short stint can do that but it is unsustainable for a 4 hour game. Starting pitchers, like Kershaw at his best, focus for intervals and compartmentalize there effort. Golfers focus a shot at a time but not for 5 hours. You can’t stay pissed off that long.
Other players are happy players. Freddie Freeman is a welcome wagon at first base. Mookie, when he’s playing well and not beating himself up, plays best when he’s smiling and having fun. There is not one best personality for a competitor.
Managers are the same. How far does that fiery per-game pep talk work when a college football team goes out to face a dominant opponent? Wasn’t it Mike Tyson who said everybody has a plan until they take a shot in the nose?
For years, a hard-ass, no nonsense skipper would live by the axiom “I don’t care if the players like me, as long as they respect me”. (I think a manager can do both). Bobby Valentine comes to mind. And each time a Bobby Valentine is fired the organization is seeking a more “player friendly” manager. So, what’s the formula – a hard-ass, rigid motivator or a more laid back communicator who has the player’s backs?
How many here really think that Mookie or Freddie or Will or Ohtani would be better in the playoffs after fiery speeches, pre and post, and kicks in the ass. Many here who likely never played competitive anything past high school seem to think so. These are grown men who should know how to get physically and mentally ready and self-motivated for big moments. If they don’t it’s NOT on the Manager. Doc was NOT responsible for our not showing up in the playoffs.
We’ve yet to find the answer on how to deal with the ridiculous 9 days off after winning a division. I’ve suggested playing somewhat competitive games with real fans let in for free, against the winners of Independent Leagues who just finished their seasons. (I’d bet the MLBPA would put the kibosh on that idea) Anything besides inter-squad games. But the same lack of adequate prep could be questioned by every division winner but one.
Doc is not a great strategist. But he is not at fault for not being Knute Rockne and a win one of the Gipper speech. That doesn’t work. Some guys need kid gloves. Some guys need a cerebral approach. Some guys need an appeal to their pride. Some guys need to be left alone and some guys need a kick in the ass. The trick is to understand your team. I never knew a single player who wanted to play for a Cheerleader.
My take is making the wild card teams play 3 games in two days. A doubleheader the day after the season ends and the deciding game the next day if needed. Then no days off and the DS begins. At most, they would be playing meaningful games with just three days off. I firmly believe it is always on the players. They have to perform up to their talents. If they don’t, the onus is on them. Mookie is a pro, so is Freddie. I doubt either one of them needed to be reminded of how bad they played. But remember that JT, who was a monster in almost every playoff he played in, disappeared in the NLCS against the Braves in 21 and was equally inept against the Padres in 22.
“The perceived motivational deficiencies of Doc are laughable. Do you really think pregame pep talks or profanity laced triads have an impact on professional athletes on a regular basis? Many here seem to believe that shit works?”
Really? Who here said that?
You just wrote a long tirade in response to an argument no one made.
Poor Old Bear. Something happened. Something changed. I think we have come to the point where we need to just let him be and pay him no mind.
Sorry Bear. I didn’t know.
Patch, I cannot site the exact time, but I have seen on here many times people wishing the Dodgers had a manager more like a lasorda who would get in people’s faces when they were performing up to par. Maybe not in this thread, but often enough.
Cheers
I’m tempted to say that any of us could manage these Dodgers to 100 wins.
This team has so much talent, and I think we’ll see a few more pieces added in the next few weeks.
Reports persist that Dodgers could sign Hader, or trade for Clase. Who winds up in LF? Will Lux really be the SS? Will AF add another ace like Burnes or Cease, or maybe a guy like Giolito?
BTW, I saw report that former Dodgers prospect Clayton Beeter has a chance to be the Yankees’ 5th starter. He’s the guy that AF traded for Joey Gallo.
Hader won’t be signed, bank on that. He comes with a QO and AF is not going to lose two more prospects by signing him. That would mean four of his top 6 picks this year lost. That won’t happen. A trade for Clase, maybe. Cease’s talks have been mainly between the Sox and the Reds. And his cost in prospects is high.
That’s how little depth the Yankees have. The Dodgers have 6 or 7 guys better than Beeter.
But are these guys Beeter than better?!
Saw some blurb about the Dodgers trading for Clase and Bieber.
Both of them took a step back last year. If the Dodgers think they can fix them, then maybe, sure. Depends who they want.
Personally, I think the Dodgers are probably ok to start the season with Yamamoto/Buehler/Glasnow/Miller/Sheehan or Stone.
Some smoke about a possible Cleveland deal with Bieber and Clase. What’s that gonna cost?
I think it’s BS but my guess is Busch, Stone & Cartaya.
It would clear up a spot for Yamamoto. And who would you rather have? Bieber or Giolito? Not a lot of 200 innings guys on this roster! And may not see Buehler or Kersh until late June or July.
Buehler will be pitching in spring training. He was throwing hard when he was at OKC last year, I saw both of his starts. But the Dodgers were being cautious. He should be healthy enough to start the season. Well over 1 and 1/2 years since his surgery. They will monitor his innings, but he will be part of the starting rotation come opening day. Kershaw is not even part of the equation yet. He has not made a decision where he wants to pitch. At this point he is nothing more than a afterthought.
Last year most of Roberts mistakes were with the pitching staff. He is responsible for 5 to 10 losses per year. My two favorite examples last year were pulling a starter with a no hitter with 68 pitches and leaving a starte in to for 4 home runs in one inning. The first resulted in a loss. The second eliminated any chance of Dodger victory.
Roberts pulls his starters when they are going good and then is happy to leave them in to get bombed for 7 or 8 runs.
When you bring in 4 or 5 relievers it’s common to find one having a bad night. Most managers would yank a guy that gives up some hits and runs to minimize the damage. Not Roberts. He will let the guy give up 4 or 5 runs before the hook.
Sometimes, he is saving the starter for October. Sometimes, he is saving the bullpen. As you can see not many of his starters finished the year.
Roberts will never be fired. How has he lasted after the last two years ? Several years ago, after one of his horrible playoffs filled with blunders the internet was buzzing with fire Roberts talk. The Dodgers extended his contract.
I disagree with both of those examples. Had the offense scored like it was supposed to and had been all year, those four runs would not have beaten them. The offense never got on track during the postseason. That is not on the manager. As for pulling a pitcher after 68 pitches, which pitcher are you referring to and when did it happen? Pitchers rarely go six innings anymore, let alone toss a no no. He did stick with Kersh too long in game one. But Kersh should not have been pitching in the first place. He was hurt and everyone knew it. It is another example of how his stubbornness cost him. Doc’s biggest mistake was letting him pitch in the first place. How do you figure he is responsible for 5-10 losses?? I watched every game last season, even the ones that were not on MLB. I never saw him throw one single pitch or swing and miss one ball. He puts players in the game, period. He makes changes, it is up to the player to get the job done. If Lynn had done his job and thrown 5 shutout innings, and the offense had awoken from their slumber, no one is talking about this at all. His pitchers getting injured also has nothing to do with him. Those injuries gave Stone, Miller and Sheehan a chance to show what they can or cannot do. Management gets the players, Doc has to use what he has. What option after the first two games did he have besides maybe Pepiot? Yarbrough was not on the roster. All of his best starters were injured or had already been used. AF got what he could at the deadline, and most of the pitchers the fans wanted, except Jordan Montgomery, sucked big time when they went to their new teams.
How can you disagree with those two examples ?
I mean, come on, if you do you can justfy EVERY decision by the manager. Pitcher does badly and the manager leaves him in anyway but hey, the offense did not score enough runs to overcome the bad pitching.#
Hey, pitcher is dealing zeros but the manager takes him out . Game gets away but not the managers fault because the offense did not score more runs after the pitching change.
Both cases IMHO were well taken. Roberts lacks feel for in game decisions.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!
I may disagree with you Dave, but we all have differing opinions. I welcome the pro and the con. Some people though just dislike Roberts and always have.
We’re just talking Dodger baseball. It’s part of the fun.
I have never understood why critiquing DR is so taboo. His playoff record sucks. Period.
If it was taboo, half the posts on here would be removed. I think it’s called a heated discussion, and it happens here a lot. So?
DD,
That is beyond ridiculous!
They also extended Barnes and Taylor (for a ridiculous amount of money for a utility player who is known as MR. Whiff). WTF were they thinking? They weren’t!!!!
I could attempt to explain why CT3 gets paid $12 Million this year, but I am not certain you can comprehend WAR and the value (in dollars) of it.
To Bradley,
Dude…I love your input! Shoot from the Hip, ask questions later. Scramble the minds of the Establishment and the empiricists. Damn the torpedoes… etc. etc.
You remind me of the Matthew McConnahy character in the “Wolf of Wall-Street.”
Man, can I get some of you guys some cheese for all your friggin whining! Yes , we all can list some of Docs faults over the years, but there are so many things behind the scenes that he has to deal with off the field with players and management. Pisses me off that all you keyboard Cowboys can pick him apart for every little thing he does wrong, yet give him no cred when he does something right, goes both ways guys. I thought he did his best job managing this past year with the way he juggled and duct taped the dumpster fire of a pitching staff, no way we should have won 100 games in 2023, yet most of you think it’s in spite of Roberts. He got total props for his job in 2023 on MLB network, and no, that wasn’t him swinging the bats for Mookie and Freddie against the D-Bags, plus we all knew we had ZERO starting pitching heading into the playoffs, courtesy of Freidman holding off last offseason and at the trade deadline to wait for Ohtani. Do you really think that he would have settled for Lance Lynn at any normal trade deadline??? Once again , it’s all about the players , and I’ve heard Uncle Ned Colletti say time and time again in the Roggin and Rodney AM 570 show that if your going to fire a guy, you better make damn sure the next guy is better. All I see out there is a bunch of recycled managers , same old same old, and don’t forget, not every manager is cut out to manage a high pressure job like the Dodgers. Managing goes way beyond what you see on the field. Especially with Ohtani, gonna be a damn circus..
AM radio lol
Roger, you’re absolutely right!! Winning isn’t everything…….
And don’t forget the playoffs are just a crapshoot, so winning the WS comes down to a lucky roll of the dice.
Amen, Roger.
Again I must say that AF thinks he’s doing a good enough job and he might know a bit more about baseball than we do!
Doc won’t be fired! as long as AF runs the ship he’s safe!! he makes some brain burning moves at times, but does anybody believe the other choice when Doc was hired (kapler) was a better option? when it comes to strange moves and head scratching switches ol Gabe is at the top of the list! check out cardinals manager, not very good. bob melvin should have been fired in san diego,( though he is one of the better managers) . aaron boone has underachieved, i know injuries haven’t helped. , etc. now im not jumping on the roberts bandwagon! he’s for the most part done what he’s supposed to in the regular season. overall not so much in the playoffs. 2020 wss by far his best job. like said, he doesn’t hit , pitch, or field. anymore. but as long as AF is there he’s safe. who would replace him?