What is the Best Stat for Hitters and Pitchers?

Posted By on February 10, 2023

We are going to do a Class Participation on this. There is a plethora of statistics by which we define players. With Pitchers, fans traditionally have used win and loses, saves, ERA, SO, BB, and WHIP, but there is also BABIP, DICE, ERA+, and CERA. There are also a vast number of others. With hitters, it has traditionally been BA, SLG, OPS, OPS+, wRC+, and WAR… to name but a few.

If you could pick two statistics for both Hitters and Pitchers, what would they be and why? Baseball has changed – evolved to a great degree, and it is ever-evolving. I think stats are enlightening, but they are not the end-all-be-all. They are an analysis too. Player evaluation using the “eye test” is highly subjective, but certain statistics can affirm what you may see. For example, you may think that a player is fast, so timing him from home to first base can confirm that.

We use our eyes, and we use stats to confirm what our eyes see. The smaller the sample, the more skewed the statistics. The larger the sample determines what is the norm. So, let’s hear it. Weigh in with what your favorite stats might be, but if you could only use two to evaluate pitchers and two to evaluate hitters, what would they be?

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This article has 60 Comments

  1. I’m a bit more old-school so I still look at OBP & SLG.

    For a pitcher I guess I can do WHIP and K/BB.

    1. OPS is literally OBP + SLG. And yeah, it’s a great stat.
      And I agree with WHIP and K/BB. These numbers minimize the luck factor.

  2. OPS for hitters

    I look at WHIP and ERA+ for pitchers

    Obviously there are more stats to look at for both.

  4. Because I frequently use Fangraphs for all of my baseball data stuff, I’m just in the habit of looking at wRC+ as the closest thing to that “one offensive stat to rule them all.” Baseball Reference uses OPS+, which is almost the same.

    https://library.fangraphs.com/offense/wrc/

    It’s a rate state versus a counting stat like WAR, so it’s not dependent on how many plate appearances a player gets, and is based around a league average of 100, so I can quickly glance and see if a player’s offensive production is above or below average. I don’t have to gauge it off some feeling of what a good batting average should be, and takes into consideration all of the offensive actions that directly contribute to run creation, and then adjusts for the park and the league. It probably isn’t a perfect stat, but I think it comes to closest to giving a good overall picture of a player’s offensive contribution versus league averages.

    What I usually do is first glance at a player’s wRC+ number when looking at the player’s Fangraph page, and then scan to the left and see what the relative contributions were to that wRC+ score. For example, if I just looked at JDM’s stats versus Freedie Freeman’s stats and look at their best wRC+, I can see that, in their top years, their wRC+ number was roughly the same, but Freeman walks more than JDM, but JDM had a much higher home run total, but only a slightly better ISO number. Batting averages favor Freeman. So, I would conclude that Freddie is a better guy to put in the second or third spot in the order. He creates runs with doubles power and getting on base with walks and BA. JDM is the guy who could clear the bases with a HR.

    1. dodgerpatch

      Everything you said in that last paragraph you wrote leads you to the same conclusion you would get if you looked at a slashline, the stats that I use. The stats that you were frustrated with me yesterday for using.

        1. To clarify, solely looking at batting average and OPS does not give the same overall picture of total offensive contribution than a stat that factors those two things, PLUS, power, walk rate, strikeout rate adjusted for park and league. OPS is a pretty good overall stat, but OPS+ (or wRC+) puts it all together.

          You might prefer your way of looking at stats. Great! The entire professional baseball industry does not.

          1. “You might prefer your way of looking at stats. Great! The entire professional baseball industry does not.”

            The same can be said about you.

            And the difference is you have a problem with me. The same cannot be said in reverse (I don’t have a problem with you) But if you keep it up it will lead to what you hated about me and Bulldogs. Your choice.

          2. Knock it off! I didn’t say I hated you and B&P, and I’m not even going to entertain that. I clearly said that the trivial back and forth between you and him over pointless minutiae drove me crazy.

            I don’t even know what your last sentence even means. You’re threatening to annoy me even more if I don’t agree with your takes on OPS?

          3. “I didn’t say I hated you and B&P, and I’m not even going to entertain that. I clearly said that the trivial back and forth between you and him over pointless minutiae drove me crazy.”

            I didn’t say you hated me and Bulldogs. What’s the difference between me saying you hated the back and forth between me and Bulldogs and that it drove you crazy? It’s the same thing.

            “I don’t even know what your last sentence even means. You’re threatening to annoy me even more if I don’t agree with your takes on OPS?”

            No, not at all about disagreeing. I was talking about you having a problem with me because my posts frustrate you.

  6. This is off the topic of stats, but The Athletic raved again about the Dodger’s Prospects. In summary, here’s what was said:

    Ryan Pepiot: Will Rhymes said that he battled his mechanics throughout the summer, and in the process of tinkering with his breaking ball, he lost the feel for his signature pitch, the changeup. All that led to Pepiot missing plenty of bats but also missing the strike zone too often, especially against left-handed hitters. Correcting the command issues are a must for him to play any sort of starter’s role. Rhymes called it a “learning year” for Pepiot.

    Mike Grove: “He’s the only player Friedman has ever called up directly from Double A during his time as an executive (dating back to his Rays days), and Grove made it a year after a significant mechanical overhaul. “He won a lot of credibility with the guys for his willingness to take the ball and make no excuses and just come after guys,” Rhymes said. Grove relies on three quality big-league pitches and enough guile to get him through a lineup a few times through the order. That versatility will fit a role the Dodgers have excelled in filling.”

    Bobby Miller: They said that Miller made great strides in terms of sequencing and game-planning and ended with this: “but it’s clear that Miller’s arrival this summer is a matter of when, not if.”

    Gavin Stone : Rhymes admitted that Stone was in consideration for a playoff spot last season. The article ended with this: “Despite Stone’s small frame for a pitcher (he’s listed at 6-foot-1, 175 pounds), Rhymes described his delivery as “electric,” generating mid-90s velocity, deception and arm speed that sells the new changeup that Law said is already a “plus-plus” pitch.

    He’s a quick adjuster, one who picked up the changeup and made it a dynamic weapon. That could be a launching pad to make him an integral part of the club’s pitching staff come next October.”

    1. These are four reasons why Friedman likely won’t be giving Urias a 300+ mil contract.

      2025 SP lineup –

      1. Ohtani
      2. Buehler
      3. Gonsolin
      4. May
      5. Miller
      6. Stone

      Yes, I know Ohtani is dope fiendish, but I think he’d be great as a Dodger

      No true ace here unless Buehler gets back to form or another one really explodes, but

        1. Perhaps. But do you think they’ll be at their ceilings by 2025? It took Buehler and Urias a while to come into their own.

    2. Mark you said to me in the past that looking at minor league stats doesn’t tell you what could have been going on like what was said about Pepiot that you provided in that post.

      “Will Rhymes said that he battled his mechanics throughout the summer, and in the process of tinkering with his breaking ball, he lost the feel for his signature pitch, the changeup. All that led to Pepiot missing plenty of bats but also missing the strike zone too often, especially against left-handed hitters.”

      So doesn’t that ask the question, what is he going to do at the big league level. Isn’t that the same as looking at minor league stats to get an idea of how he’s going to do at the big league level?

  7. My favorite stats

    Hitters: OP+ (which is ballpark adjusted) and rOBA which accounts for the batted ball outs vs strikeouts and the varying importance of GIDP’s and strikeouts over time.

    Pitchers:It’s simpler here for me as I use WHIP and RA9.

    1. I know are am behind the times with all of the info that is out there, but what I always look for in a batter are:
      Ave
      BB/K ratio – which I realize is antiquated in the 3-scenario outcome that is now prevalent.

      For pitchers, it is:
      ERA
      Whip
      BB/K ratio

      Definitely not fancy or sophisticated – but an easy & quick check that gives me an overview of the individual.
      All the other stuff hurts my head:)

  9. I love stats, what baseball fan doesn’t but in these modern times there’s so many being constantly thrown out there at us I’m more inclined to enjoy and use the eye test more and check stats to see how much In line with them and the the eyes don’t always agree with the stats for various reasons but for players don’t get to see very often stats are vital and of course there a fun part of the fan experience of all the players. I reckon I’m so old school WHIP for pitching and OPS for hitting. The older simpler ones. My favorites are players reaching the big season long numbers, 200 hits 100 driven in 35 homers ERA under 2.00.

  10. dodgerpatch

    To clarify to you and to answer your question from yesterday. Hopefully it makes you less frustrated with my post yesterday.

    1) I like Turner better because he was a Dodger for many years.

    2) Badger said “out produced” that means hitting/offense and W.A.R is part defense and that was the point I was making.

    “Do you ever consider that maybe you’re assumptions are not correct, or you just haven’t looked deeply at the stats to try to understand them to at least make a good assessment … and therefore say something insightful?”

    Can’t you see this statement from you is frustrating because you never said which stats? So which stats are you talking about?

    1. Ok, I don’t want to get sucked into some multi-day obsessive back and forth argument like you and B&P used to enjoy doing and that drove me crazy, but let me just clarify.

      2. You were actually right on this point, and I didn’t read this post till after I made my comment. Yes, WAR is a counting stat that factors in defense AND the total games and innings played by the player. Player A might have been more productive than Player B, but if Player A was injured and played in 100 fewer games …. les WAR.

      Having validated your point here, that doesn’t mean the entire stat or the entire concept of the stat is invalid, which you seemed to have been arguing yesterday. WAR is a useful stat. Not perfect, but useful

  11. The problem with looking at just one or two stats is that it doesn’t provide helpful context. Sure, I like OPS and OPS+, but they don’t provide context. Consider Maury Wills. His highest OPS was in 1962, his MVP year. It was .720 and his OPS+ was 99. But he stole 104 bases, scored 130 runs, had 759 AB(!) (he played in all 165 games during the regular season) and was MVP.

    Today’s status undervalue a player like Wills and his contributions. The Dodgers don’t go to the World Series in 1965 or 66 without him.

    1. I don’t know. Do today’s stats actually undervalue a player like Will’s contributions? Obviously, OPS+ de-emphasizes stolen bases, but is that a flaw of the stat itself, or a flaw in the prior assumptions regarding stolen bases and run production – that stolen bases contribute more towards total run production and winning than they actually do? I think that’s what’s behind the current trend away from stealing bases – the risk of an out outweighs the potential benefit from advancing a base.

      “The Dodgers don’t go to the World Series in 1965 or 66 without him.”

      That might not be true. Maybe a leadoff hitter who walked more, had a higher OBP, and hit with more power (and had a higher OPS+ as a result) would have been a more valuable player to those Dodger teams.

      1. What’s true during the regular season does not always play out in post season. Take the 2022 Dodgers. Great regular season where stats of all kinds can be used in confidence but in a short series it’s often the little things that come into play (see 2004 Red Sox).

          1. Stolen bases; Wills/ Roberts. While analytics may suggest that stolen bases are frowned upon, in the post season analytics have issues.

            I tend to look at overall analytics as an analysis of linear events, where non- linear aspects of the game are “smoothed” over. By nonlinear events I mean check swing hits, errors that normally would not happen, wild pitches, injured players etc.

            In the post season, nonlinear aspects of the game come into play. So, how can you overcome their affects. I suggest that it requires a rethinking of some parts of a teams normal execution. Roberts stealing second base rather than waiting for the next two batters to get hits is part of that process.

      2. dodgerpatch

        I agree with you about your last paragraph about Wills vs a hitter with a higher OPS+ being more valuable back in those times.

  12. If you could figure things out using just a few stats then a AF wouldn’t have a room full of Ivy League grads crunching numbers all day every day!

  13. Mark

    BA and OPS for both batters and pitchers. You can find that in slashlines.

    The 2 most important stats in a slashline for batters are BA and OPS because you can narrow down OBP and SLG to OPS because OBP + SLG = OPS. BA is important from a slashline because it tells you whether a batter relies mostly on walks (OBP – BA) and power (SLG), 2 of the 3 things of a 3 true outcome hitter besides the strikeouts that you can find elsewhere.

    The 2 most important things that a batter does to contribute to the team’s success is getting on base (OBP) and hitting for power (SLG) whether it’s doubles, triples, home runs. OBP + SLG = OPS.

    On the pitcher’s side of things the same thing, slashlines. The only thing that is missing from a slashline that is important is strikeouts that can be found elsewhere.

    The most important things a pitcher can do to contribute to a team’s success is keeping batters off the bases (hits or walks and combined is OBP) and allowing extra base hits (SLG). Again OBP + SLG = OPS. If you want to know the details of OPS you can find it in the rest of the slashline. Strikeouts are also important because it’s better to get a stikeout than to rely on defense to get the out.

    So there are 3 total stats that are the best to use. BA, OPS, and whatever stat that a person wants to use for strikeouts, I like SO%. But the 2 most important are BA and OPS if I had to narrow it down to 2.

    By the way you could look elsewhere (other stats) and come to the same conclusion that a slashline tells you. The difference is that a slashline is basic and is listed together.

    1. This was quite the post, Eric.

      DodgerPatch (I think!) once (rightly!) called me to task for one of my (many!) tautological posts. I think I said a team was doing well, because they are a good team.

      Your post reminds me of this. These stats are the most important, because they capture the most important stuff!

      I really like these two lines:
      The 2 most important things that a batter does to contribute to the team’s success is getting on base (OBP) and hitting for power (SLG) whether it’s doubles, triples, home runs. OBP + SLG = OPS.

      So there are 3 total stats that are the best to use, BA, OPS, and whatever stat that a person wants to use for strikeouts, I like SO%. But the 2 most important are BA and OPS if I had to narrow it down to 2.

      Why not wOBA (which isn’t simple, but very comprehensive? Is simplicity important to you?) Exit velocity? Why not BABIP (if you don’t care about predictive stats)? Why not OPS+, which contextualizes? Why not WAR which assigns a quantifiable value? Is value not important?

      We haven’t even mentioned WRC. I know a TON of people like WRC+, because of its mathematically/historically basis. Is that not important?

      Lots of people are down on OPS because of the issues with SLG. Is that unimportant?

      1. Why did you pick me and nobody else in this conversation today?

        I don’t want to get into everything but one thing I will say is that a prediction is not always right.

          1. Wait.

            Wait a second.

            Please, please, please tell me the question you are waiting is NOT:
            Why did you pick me and nobody else in this conversation today?

        2. Did you just answer my question with a question?

          Instead of getting into everything can we get into something? Y’know to perpetuate the discussion?

          1. I don’t know what you’re talking about. But I told you I don’t want to get into everything and it’s because I’m already dealing with dodgerpatch and his problem with me.

            But you avoided my question and unlike all the questions you asked me my question is only one question and it’s a simple question to answer.

          5. Apologies, posted this in the wrong place.

            Wait.

            Wait a second.

            Please, please, please tell me the question you are waiting is NOT:
            Why did you pick me and nobody else in this conversation today?

  14. Not a stat geek. I look at wins and losses and where the team is in the standings, at the end of the season that is the only stat that matters.

  15. Way things are these days I assumed every team had a room of Ivy League grads crunching numbers all day. Seems like lot of the fan base tries there hand at it to. The stat I care about the most is what size ring

  18. OREL HERSHISER AND MANNY MOTA NAMED ‘LEGENDS OF DODGER BASEBALL’ PRESENTED BY BANK OF AMERICA

    The duo will become the 6th and 7th Dodgers inducted as Legends

    LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles Dodgers today announced that Orel Hershiser and Manny Mota will be the next two Dodger greats inducted into the Legends of Dodger Baseball, presented by Bank of America, and will have their careers celebrated during the 2023 season.

    Legends of Dodger Baseball is a recognition of Dodger greats and their impact on the franchise, both on and off the field. Inductees receive a plaque honoring their Dodger achievements, which will also be on permanent display at Dodger Stadium.

    “Orel Hershiser and Manny Mota truly define the spirit, dedication and excellence that we strive for at the Dodgers,” said Dodger President and CEO Stan Kasten. “Both have been fixtures at Dodger Stadium and in the Los Angeles community for multiple generations of Dodger fans and we can’t wait to honor their storied careers this season.”

    Mota will be honored during pregame ceremonies prior to the 6:10 p.m. game vs. the St. Louis Cardinals on April 29. Hershiser will be celebrated prior to the 6:10 p.m. contest vs. the Cincinnati Reds on July 29.

    Steve Garvey, Don Newcombe and Fernando Valenzuela made up the inaugural Legends of Dodger Baseball class in 2019. Maury Wills and Kirk Gibson were inducted during the 2022 season.

    Hershiser played 13 of his 18 seasons with the Dodgers and the three-time All-Star right-hander was the driving force behind the 1988 World Series Championship. That season, Hershiser led the National League in wins (23), innings pitched (267), shutouts (8) and complete games (15) en route to a Cy Young Award and set the all-time Major League record of 59 consecutive scoreless innings (Aug. 30-Sept. 28). He secured his place in Dodger lore with a dominant 1988 Postseason, where he earned both NLCS and World Series MVP honors and became the only player in history to win those honors in addition to the Cy Young Award in the same season. He later received both The Sporting News Pitcher of the Year and Sports Illustrated Sportsman of the Year awards for his brilliant season.

    “I am humbled to be inducted into the Legends of Dodger Baseball with my wonderful friend, coach and mentor Manny Mota,” said Hershiser. “This is the part of life that you never imagined. To think I was drafted in the 17th round in 1979 and here now I am still representing this great organization. The Dodgers have been one of the most important parts of my life. I love my teammates, I love this organization and I love you fans. The experiences that I’ve had in uniform on and off the field have taken my life to places I never thought I could go. Thank you so much for this recognition and God bless all of you.”

    Hershiser played baseball at Bowling Green (OH) State University and was drafted in the 17th round by the Dodgers in the 1979 Major League First-Year Player Draft. It was during a game in his rookie year of 1984, that Hershiser was nicknamed “Bulldog,” in an effort by Dodgers Hall of Fame manager Tommy Lasorda to get Hershiser to adopt a tougher attitude on the mound. It worked, as Hershiser had his first stellar campaign in 1985, going 19-3 with a 2.03 ERA while helping lead the club to an NL-West crown.

    Since his retirement in 2000, he was held titles of Special Assistant to the GM and pitching coach with the Texas Rangers while forging a terrific broadcasting career, including the last nine with the Dodgers. Hershiser returned to Los Angeles in 2014 and has been instrumental in the award-winning Dodger broadcast on SNLA.

    Mota has been a member of the Dodger organization for more than 50 years as a player, coach and broadcaster and was the longest-tenured coach in Dodger history (1980-2018). He played 20 Major League seasons with San Francisco (1962), Pittsburgh (1963-68), Montreal (1969) and the Dodgers (1969-80, ’82), batting .304 and retiring as baseball’s all-time pinch-hit leader with 150. Mota was an All-Star for the Dodgers in 1973 and after retiring as a player in 1980, he joined the Dodgers’ coaching staff as the club’s first base coach and batting instructor but was re-activated on Aug. 29 of that year when Reggie Smith went on the disabled list. He was also activated from the coaching staff for one game in 1982, his 816th contest as a Dodger, which rank as the fourth most among all Los Angeles players born in the Dominican Republic.

    “This is a great honor and a great privilege, and I’m very grateful to the Dodgers for selecting me as a Legend of Dodger Baseball,” said Mota. “I don’t consider myself a legend, just another person who always tried to contribute to the Dodgers and give my best. I am humbled and really appreciate what the Dodgers are doing for me. I consider Dodger Stadium my home away from home, and I consider myself to be an adopted son of the Dodger organization.”

    He has participated in five World Series with the Dodgers as a player or coach, was inducted into the Hispanic Heritage Baseball Museum in 2003 and has also been awarded the Deportista Meritorio in the Dominican Republic, a lifetime achievement award honoring his baseball career and citizenship. In 2022, he was inducted into the Latino Baseball Hall of Fame. Mota and his wife, Margarita, operate a youth baseball league during the offseason and the Manny Mota International Foundation, a non-profit organization which has raised money to build a medical clinic, baseball fields and a school in the Dominican Republic.

  19. Very surprised to see Peralta signing at $6.5 million with incentives. He is almost 36 and strictly a platoon LFer against RHP. I would think this makes Heyward and Busch less likely options. And the luxury tax reset is off the table unless Taylor is traded prior to the beginning of the season.

    Even Friedman makes some questionable moves. He let Joc and Kike leave after the 2020 championship for $7 million salaries for 1 and 2 years. Both excelled in the 2021 playoffs, while the Dodgers played Souza and McKinney in the postseason. In 2022, AF brought in Alberto and Gallo to fill the roles of Kike and Joc. Now Rojas and Peralta are being brought in to replace their contributions. Prospects Beeter and Amaya were traded away to get Gallo and Rojas also. And after letting Joc and Kike walk for $7 million each, AF opted to pay Taylor 4 years at $15 million a season.
    AF could have simply brought back Kike and Joc on modest salaries in 2021 and 2022, but instead made Bauer the highest paid player in baseball. Too bad the Dodgers didn’t just keep the championship gang together.

  20. So about that “youth movement”….
    Looks like 35-year-old David Peralta will now be part of a platoon in LF. Signed for $6.5 with incentives that can take it to $8 million, he’s practically ensured a spot on the roster. He’s another lefthanded hitter who hits righthanded pitching well.
    So this has to be considered not-great news for Outman, Busch, Trayce, Busch, Heyward. Maybe not great for Taylor, but he’s got a nice contract that would be hard to trade.
    The outfield already seemed a bit crowded now. Peralta is a good player, especially in a platoon, but he might end up blocking promising players like Outman and Busch who are ten years younger. The fact that both Outman and Busch are both 25, not 22, strikes me as a reason to play them–not get them more “seasoning” in the minors.
    This move leaves me wondering if AF & Associates are already plotting another move on the chessboard. Could Busch and Outman (be included in a deal for Reynolds?
    Hmmm…
    Betts RF
    Freeman 1B
    Smith C
    Muncy 3B
    JDM DH
    Reynolds CF
    Lux SS
    Vargas 2B
    Peralta/Taylor LF

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