Do you remember when many Dodger fans wanted to trade Gavin Lux, Keibert Ruiz, and the kitchen sink for Francisco Lindor who was allegedly the second coming? Remember how many were heartbroken when he was traded to the Mets who signed him to a $341 Million Dollar Deal? Remember when most fans wanted Lindor, Trevor Story, Carlos Correa, or Javier Baez instead of Corey Seager?
Well, of those five (soon to be free agent) shortstops, let’s look at their stats:
- Javier Baez – .241 BA/.757 OPS/24 HR/68 RBI Baez is a train wreck. I want to see what Fool GM gives him more than $80 Million.
- Carlos Correa – .269 BA/.839 OPS/18 HR/60 RBI Carlos is doing OK, but his history of back injuries has to give anyone pause.
- Francisco Lindor – .228 BA/.702 OPS/11 HR/36 RBI I’ll bet Steve Cohen has learned his lesson. This is potentiall a huge boat anchor contract.
- Trevor Story – .254 BA/.785 OPS/15 HR/54 RBI Certainly not the superstar that many thought. You have to dedcet a little from his offense for the Mile-High Factor
- Corey Seager – .276 BA/.799 OPS/5 HR/25 RBI Of course, he has been injured most of thr season. The final chapter is yet to be written… and is true with all five players.
Francisco Lindor’s inability to even be an average player started the domino effect to all the other shortstops. That contract looks like a boat anchor. I think because of that, most GMs will be very wary of giving out big contracts to these players. Some Dodger fans pined for Javy Baez. How do you like him now? No thank you! Corey Seager is heating up and getting his strike back. I predict that he will hit over .300… of course, he doesn’t have enough at-bats to qualify for anything. With a hot finish, Corey Seager will be the cream of the crop of Free Agent Shortstops, but what does that mean for the Dodgers?
We know that Trea Turner changes the whole Dodger Dynamic. However, I would not want to choose one player over the other… and I don’t think you have to. A sit-down after the season with both players could be productive. I can see both players wanting to test free agency. People who say “The Dodgers should lock up Seager (or Turner) now.” are not being realistic and lack understanding of how the free-agent process works. Trea Turner becomes a Free Agent in 2023 while Corey Seager is one after this season.
There are not that many teams that can afford either player, but right now our focus is on Corey. The Yankees can afford him, but will they? We know that was his childhood team, but does he still want to play there? Will the Yankees be a player for him? We don’t know. Corey will be 28 next season. I think he can play shortstop into his 30’s and slide over to 3B or 1B at that time. We know that he missed nearly a full season with elbow and hip surgery and recently missed months with a broken finger/hand. I do not think that makes him “injury prone.” Getting hit with a pitch is not proof of that.
Of course, Trea Turner also plays SS, and 2B and CF. He can be outstanding at any of these positions, but there is one thing to worry about with Trea Turner. We know his speed is elite, but we also know he is a year older than Corey. You don’t get faster as you get older. We also know that Trea has missed substantial time with injuries. As he ages, his speed will become less of a factor. The bottom line is I think Corey will get a bigger contract than Trea, but that is why players go to free agency to see what they can get.
If forced to sign one or the other, I would sign Corey Seager to an 8 year/$240 Million Dollar deal. That’s a big contract, but I do not believe any of the shortstops on the market this year will get anything approaching with Lindor did. Cody Bellinger is also showing signs of getting his stroke back, so the Dodgers will have to figure out how to sign him too.
Currently, Mookie Betts is likely headed back to the IL and I wonder how much of a factor he can be. He obviously needs surgery, but for what and how? We don’t know. I think the Dodgers do but aren’t saying. Justin Turner’s groin injury could also require an IL stint. Sometimes those take a while. CT3 can play there, but Max Muncy is a better option because of his experience.
Danny Duffy, Victor Gonzalez, and Clayton Kershaw are also on the IL and probably won’t be back until September, whenever. The Good News is that Alex Vesia and Corey Knebel look healthy and effective out of the pen. Corey was 97-98 MPH consistently last night. This has been a trying season for the Dodgers and they will be tried even more, but even Mookie and JT out, the firepower brought by Turner, Seager, Muncy, Bellinger, and Taylor should be sufficient. It would be nice to win the division (and I still think the Dodgers will), but that is not the only path to success.
Regardless of the injuries, this team will be tough in the playoffs… they just have to get there first. However, anyone who thinks this team does not have depth is seriously mistaken.
Minor League News
- Gavin Lux played 3B at OKC and was 2-4 last night. He’s playing 3B, in case JT is down for any period of time. Gavin has not been the superstar (yet) that many wanted, but he is a solid player.. who may becaome THAT guy.
- Miguel Vargas continues to hit at Tulsa. He balsted his 10th HR last night and was 2-4 (.294 BA/.877 OPS)
Photo Credit: Alex Gallardo / Associated Press
Sign Corey, it’s a no brainer. With KJ, CK, Joe Kelly all off the books after this year the Dodger payroll can support his AAV along with Mookie’s. With Caleb Ferguson, Tommy Kahnle, perhaps Dustin May and the advancement of Pepiot, Miller, Beeter, etc. we will see the continuing blend of minimum rookie level contracts mixed in with some very large AAV contracts. I think the old adage once mentioned by Stan Kasten that you develop pitching and buy position players is what the Dodgers will do.
2022
Mookie RF
Muncy 1B
TT 2B
Seager SS
JT DH
Cody CF
Smith C
CT3 LF
Lux 3B
Buehler
Urias
Scherzer
Price
Gonsolin
White
Knebel
Bruihl
Graterol
Treinen
Vesia
Miller
Bickford
Barnes
Beaty
Rios
McKinstry
Scherzer is re-signed, Pollock is traded while his value is high in the last year of a four-year contract for some depth pieces. Need a RH bat off the bench, but CT3 is brought back as your every day LF, Knebel is re-signed. The LA to OKC train will involve Ferguson, White, Bruihl, Miller, and others. Kahnle and Ferguson might start out on the IL, but they will be huge pieces in 2022. Duffy, Hamels will be re-signed as a veteran swingman/spot starter long relief guy.
Be pigs!
No way do I trade Pollock before his walk year. Look what’s happening up North with all those guys in their walk year!
I’m about 90% in favor of moving on from CK and 100% in favor of moving on from Kenley.
I’m with you Mark, I love Corey and would definitely want to make it a priority to bring him back. I feel the same way about Cody. Did you see that catch at the end of the game. He gets to everything. I also thought the ground ball that Corey go to up the middle showed his underrated range at SS. I know you can’t keep them all, so I’ll go ahead a let AF figure this out and call him a moron later if it doesn’t work out. 😉
Good win last night. Maybe we got lucky that the rain delay caused both starting pitchers to leave the game because Nolo was looking pretty stingy last night.
Seager looks like he’s getting hot and Bellinger extended his modest hitting streak to 7. It made me feel like old times. But, the key to the game was that horrible bullpen we have shutting down the home team to break their 8 game streak. Alex Vesia is quickly becoming a stud and it’s great having Knebel back even if he didn’t finish his inning. New guy Greene must have small hands or something. He can bring it, but I’m not sure he knows where it’s going.
Trea Turner is very fast and he’s got great instincts on the bases. That line drive to Harper got there really quick and Harper has a great arm and threw a strike to the plate. Most players don’t even try to score on a ball hit that hard, right to a right fielder with a great arm. Not only does Trea score on that play, but he did not hesitate at all and topped it off with a hilariously cool slide at the plate.
For those who have given up on Lux already, Trea is a preview of the type of player Lux could be.
Dodgers should resign Seager and trade overrated Trea Turner, who does not hit quality pitching. He was embarrassing this post season missing ball fours by feet not inches.
Shoud attempt to trade Trea to Yankees once they see Dodgers are resigning Seager. Should ask for Jonathan Loasiga for Turner.
You only tell half the story Mark.
Lindor has 2.1 WAR this year, with a +.9 dWAR. Seager 0.8. WAR with a – dWAR. Plus, he’s only making $22m this year. Not an anchor yet.
At least Lindor showed up.
But, your point is made. We’ll see how the two finish.
The answer is Turner. But I hope we can keep both.
I keep imagining this team with Mookie on it.
You only tell half the story Badger. Lindor as that 2.1 WAR with over 300 ABs and Corey .8 is with about 40% less ABs. oWAR is much more quantitative than dWAR, meaning that the statistics used for oWAR are much more reliable than dWAR.
If you call a 700 OPS as showing up, they should have just signed Kike for pennies on the dollar.
Before you start calling Trea “The Answer”, you should consider that he’s never had a 5 WAR season, but Seager has had two and Trea is a year older!
People are always impressed watching a player that’s in the midst of a career year. This is what we’re seeing the Trea right now.
Yeah I think showing up counts. You don’t?
Lindor has led the league in games played and runs scored once and at bats and plate appearances multiple times. Seager led the league in doubles once, but Lindor has 50 more of them over the same amount of time. Defense isn’t even close.
Lindor is having an off year. Stuff happens, (ask Cody). He’s now out with an oblique. First time he’s been hurt. Again, we’ll see how they finish.
As for Turner and 5 WAR? Two with 4+ and two in row with 5 pace. Is there anyone here who wants Seager at short over Trea Turner?
”Is there anyone here who wants Seager at short over Trea Turner?”
NO!
Apparently the Dodgers want Seager at SS over Trea right now, that’s all that matters. Probably because they still hope to resign him. Pretty obvious to me.
Once they sign him, they can slide him over to 3B, after JT moves off the position. Much ado about nothing.
Lindor hasn’t played since mid July, so much for showing up.
I watched the entire game last night and Seags made a great play ranging far up the middle. He doesn’t look flashy, but gets the job done. He looked like pre-injury Seags on that play. Maybe he worked on his quickness when he was out with the hand injury.
I love a great defensive shortstop as much as the next guy, but I love a WS MVP shortstop that can carry a team with his bat even more.
With JT on the team, there is absolutely no need to start moving guys around.
Yankees unfortunately want Seager more than the Dodgers.. He is gone
Absolutely not….under no circumstance should Seager be signed as a SS moving forward. He needs to slide over to 3B. Anyone who does not believe he is a defensive liability at SS is kidding themselves. Conversely, Turner is an above average defensive SS with superior range. I want to keep Seager but I think he will move on from the Dodgers.
Also the idea of signing CT as the everyday LF is hilarious. His entire value hinges on him being able and willing to play multiple positions and most of them at an above average level….it’s what differentiates him from 99% of the players in the league.
“I’m vague about what it is,” Dodgers manager Dave Roberts said, “because I really don’t know what it is … when and if he goes on the IL, when he gets back I think that’s where we’re going to be at.”
No Dave, you weren’t vague about what it is. You said hip pointer. And what the hell are you saying in the last half of that statement? When he gets back, that’s where we’ll be at?
I think he wants to tell what he knows, can’t, and he’s a terrible liar.
Typical Roberts response. Lies, vague, non-sensical. Why does the media even talk to him? I know it’s the front office directive, but after all these years Roberts has to be tired of being a lean, mean lying machine. It’s shameful and an insult to the fan base. To think that the media is going to believe that the Dodgers have no idea what’s wrong with there $300M+ superstar is a joke. Sounds like an impingement to me. So, surgery in the offseason or risk of a labrum tear. But, I’m I have no medical qualifications so what do I know? Nothing.
I wanted to give a shout out to Phil Bickford. He doesn’t get much attention or recognition. He is quietly becoming a workhorse and is developing as a very dependable pitcher out of the BP. Very nice and underappreciated addition by AF. Who said he can’t build a productive bullpen?
I agree that Doc is a terrible liar. He should be better with all the practice he gets.
I think 99% of GMs in the league would still sign Lindor to that deal if they had the resources.
One year does not an albatross make.
Betts obviously needs surgery? How is that anything that’s obvious, other than an obvious guess.
I still take Lindor over Seager at shortstop. In the same amount of time he’s put up 30 WAR to Seager’s 18.5. He’s a much better defensive player with more power and unlike Seager he’s not injury prone. I thought then and I think now he was a better fit. But now there’s Turner in the mix and that changes things.
From LAT:
Betts received a cortisone injection in July, and he could take another shot. Roberts said Betts has not sustained a “labrum tear” in the hip, but he also didn’t rule out the possibility of Betts undergoing postseason surgery.
“I think everything is on the table right now,” Roberts said. “We’re running tests, having conversations. … As we get through the season, I’m sure [postseason surgery] will be discussed. I’m not sure we know what surgery would be required, but right now, that’s not on the table.”
So, Roberts said that Betts did not have labrum tear. If they know that, they know what is wrong… they just aren’t saying!
Roberts said? We know Roberts is not telling the truth.
It ain’t a hip pointer. I still say it’s FAI.
Impingement can cause a labrum tear. I think that’s what it is and arthroscopic surgery will be required.
A possibility is not a reality.
This is basic reading comprehension.
That’s why I said “I think that’s what it is”. Since the Dodgers aren’t saying, nobody outside the organization knows what it is. At this point I doubt the specialists are guessing.
I’m agreeing with you, I’m chastising Mark for being loose with his words.
OK, I’ll try to be more clear: I am 100% certain Mookie needs surgery!
Your opinion on the matter is as valid as anyone else’s, being we get nothing from the front office. As long it is not arthritic then it should be a treatable injury with or without surgery. I just don’t get why they can’t just say what the injury is, how is it going to be fixed, and what the rehab time might be if it’s surgery or physical therapy. It’s like this with every injury. It’s not like these are never before type injuries that they have no experience with. It’s the same old pattern. We don’t know. It’s day to day. No, it’s week to week. Now, it’s 60 day IL. Let’s just make it season ending and be done with it. What’s the prognosis? “We don’t know right now”. All a bunch of BS.
Maybe it has something to do with professional gambling ted.
I’m 50% certain that Mark might be right.
Has anyone considered that they didn’t find anything conclusive in the MRI and they don’t know what it is?
Surgery could be exploratory arthroscopy where they make a tiny incision and insert a camera to see if they can find something that the MRI can’t.
I’ve said this many times before, but I hope we resign Seager and I hope next year we can extend my new favorite player, Trea Turner. I hope he finds the West Coast to not be so bad that he just has to live in the East. If he absolutely has to move back East, I hope the Atlanta Braves can sign him, seeing that I live in the Big A.
Other tidbits I’d like to express:
1. VESIA….he now has my attention. Way to go young man.
2. The bullpen….all of a sudden with Knebel back, VESIA pitching nicely, Bickford being consistent, Kelly becoming beastly again, Trienen being Trienen (reliable), this Bruihl kid looking impressive, albeit too small of a sample size….now all we have to do is hold our breath when Graterol and Jansen come in. (I omitted Greene and Quack because I do not believe either will be around much.)
3. I’m 100% okay with McKinney playing over Beaty. Beaty may be a bit better with the stick but McKinney is better with the glove, so it’s kind of a wash.
4. Glad to hear Lux is working out at 3B. If Turner has to miss some time, it’s nice to have the option of at least playing Lux against RHP.
5. Our depth….anyone concerned about the lack of our positional depth? Other than CT3, we seem to have no one that reliable who can come in and start every day in the OF or 3B.
6. As much as I hate to say this, if we can only try to sign one, I would try for Scherzer over Clayton for obvious reasons. But, I feel dirty saying that.
That’s it for now. Great win last night, we needed it to not drop back anymore. It pains me to watch Dbacks highlights…that Christian Walker kid who plays 1B gave them the game just like that Brewers RF who misplayed the final out a week ago. The friggin Giants do seem to be a team of destiny so far……
TM
Agree about the midgets seemingly other worldly “luck”. But FINALLY we had a bit of “luck” that you would not have thought was luck at the time. Having rain knock out Scherzer would seem to be not so bueno, but in forcing Nola out as well, we got to their BP and that turned out what we needed. Add to that I had checked the weather radar & it did not look good. IMO if it had gone another 30-45 min I think they would have cancelled & then what? Would we have had a double header today? Worked out swimmingly for us.
cheers
pb+
I read an article today about him being asked about that sliding style. he said he developed that to avoid injury. A nice, long easy slide. Sure looks SMOOTH!
Corey Seager and Trea Turner are both all star baseball players and the Dodgers should try to keep both of them. Unfortunately, Corey Seager has selected Scott Boras as his agent, and that will make it very difficult to retain Corey.
While Trea is 10 months older than Corey, their career stats in MLB are remarkably similar.
Seager:
At bats – 2,247
Average- .294
OPS – .857
HR – 93
SB – 12
Turner:
At Bats – 2,568
Average – .300
OPS – .842
HR – 93
SB -193
In my opinion, Corey is a slightly better hitter, and Trea is a slightly better all around baseball player. I would rather have either Trea or Corey above Lindor who has a career average of .280 and career OPS of .821.
Also, The Lindor contract paid him a $22 million salary this year plus an upfront bonus of $21 million. His AAV will be $34 million for the next 10 years starting in 2022.
Hopefully, the Dodgers can find a way to keep Seager, but Boras will likely create a bidding war and find a team to overpay Corey. And in the long run, most huge contracts do not workout for the teams.
This year, 14 players have a base salary of $30 million or above. Only three of those players have WAR above 3: Cole, DeGrom, and Machado. And 5 of the 14 have a WAR below 0.5.
Even Reliable stars like Mookie Betts and Mike Trout are susceptible to injury.
And one other consideration is that the MLB Labor Agreement expires at the end of the year which could impact all free agents.
The problem Seager has is who will give him $240+ Million?
Maybe the Yankees and/or the Dodgers. The Marlins might pony up for it, but I doubt it. The Giants could do it.
The Red Sox have a SS, so there are not many suitors. Would the Yankees do it when they need to spend on pitching?
Brandon Crawford is the Giants SS. What is wrong with him? Plus, they got Kris Bryant. Unless you are thinking of playing Seager at 2B….
Crawford will be 35 next year and is a free agent. He is having a career year but is a career .252 hitter.
Bryant is a FA too.
I doubt the Yankees, they have Torres and Urhsela on that side of the IF.
But:
Angels.
Cubs.
Nationals.
Braves?
Tigers
Cardinals
Mariners
The Yankees do not like Torres as a SS and would love to move him to 2B. The Yankees could move Urshela to another team and put DJLM at 3B. Urshela’s .315 OB% is pitiful for a power position.
The Cubs won’t spend like that and I frankly can’t see most of the other scenarios unless Corey is really cheap.
Just need one team
Isn’t LaMahieu (the recently signed guy) at 2B for the Yankees?
Again, good teams don’t over-react to one year. Ushela’s OPS and Seager’s OPS for 2021 are roughly equivalent. If his # is pitiful for a power position, isn’t Seager’s?
Career-wise, Seager has an OPS over 100 points above Urshela and his bat would play big in NY… like 50 HR big.
DJLM has played 1B (48 Games), 2B (53 Games), and 3B (25 Games) this year. Torres is not a good SS and needs to go to 2B. DJLM could go to 1B, but if they sign Rizzo, Gio would be the odd man out. Wherever he plays DJLM has a Gold(ish) glove.
Plus they need left handed bats REALLY bad.
If the Yankees think that Torres is a bad shortstop, why would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars on a shortstop that everyone wants to move to 3B?
Lindor is no longer in our family picture. If it’s Turner OR Seager, I take Turner. For all we know both will be gone. It’s possible Seager goes to New York and both Turner and Scherzer have a gentleman’s agreements to return to Washington to team up with Ruiz and Gray. Would be nice to extend all three quickly, but, won’t happen.
What a weird year it’s been. And it’s shaping up to get weirder. The giants are in fist place in August, we’re not even in fire season out here and every state is burning. Covid is flaring up again and Congress continues to be hopelessly dysfunctional. Where am I? Is this real life?
You forgot the part where the executive branch continues to be hopelessly inept & clueless.
True, but it’s gotten better the last several months.
What about the rest of what was said?
Better? Have you seen gas prices lately?
Disagree that ANYTHING has gotten “better” at all. Almost $4 gas, porous border with thousands of infected being released without notice into the general population, adjusted inflation at a 20yr high, a fearless leader who does not seem to know where or why he is anywhere from d2d. ……. not sure how you call that better.
As for who to sign & when to try to sign them, I really do not have much of an opinion as all the hand wringing over that will not change a single thing. I DO THINK that based on TTurner’s statement about wanting to remain living on the East Coast “sort of” makes him unlikely to stay. Unless he falls in love with the adulation the fans give him. Because if he is a Fl guy, CA could not be anymore different except both have beaches. Different politics, different weather, just a different sort of people. Neither one better or worse than the other, but very different. I hear he is a pretty quiet, laid back dude personally, so not sure all the hoopla that goes with being a “star” in L.A. is something that suits him. But as trite as it sounds, we will know when we know & not a minute b4 that.
cheers
pb+
Higher taxes in Cali too. But I think he is like most players. He wants to win. And if the Dodgers make a decent offer and give him the best chance to win multiple titles, he could be swayed. As for the Seager-Boras thing, Boras steers his players toward the most money. Always.
Your only comment to me was about the White House flipper. My comment back to you was also about the leadership at the top.
Taxes. We ALL have to pay up to get things fixed. I’m willing. I wonder if Bezos and Trump are.
Pretty sure I actually answered & gave my opinions on all your subjects. And as for your “we all have to pitch in”, I “pitch in” plenty and get very little in return. If you are speaking of the phony “infrastructure bill” that ALL those idiots passed….. NO THANKS. It is just a huge piece of pork & the CBO and others have determined it WILL NOT help ANYONE except a lot of special interests. The “regular folks” will be stuck paying for it for generations and be getting ZIP out of it. Typical swamp shit. Adds over 200 billion to our debt and we get nuttin’.
The American people don’t give a damm about debt. Politicians certainly don’t. It’s just a dog whistle.
And I hope you’re wrong about the two bills in front of Congress. We need to act. We’ve already waited too long.
Well, “large mean pointy toothed rodent”, the CBO is non partisan & that is what they said. Thinking people should find out what congresscritters want to spend OUR money on BEFORE they start lending support. It is like they TRUST the govt. and that applies to both sides of the aisle. IMO, anyone who does should have their heads examined. And not giving a damn about debt? If that is what the avg citizen thinks or actually does not think about debt, they are irremdeemably stupid IMO. If they do not care it is because they are self absorbed ftards and do not care about their kids or grandkids being saddled with the debt THEY incurred. The piper ALWAYS comes calling someday.
Debt is just a dog whistle? Badger, you do not live in reality. I know you’re bad with numbers, but I never realised how bad until now. This statement really takes the cake. If debt is just a dog whistle, then clearly nothing matters and we should all just go back into the caves.
If debt doesn’t matter, why should I even pay taxes?
Just keep borrowing money, printing money, and I will keep mine.
Also, why would Bezos or anyone need to pay?
Debt matters immensely. Honestly, a mind boggling statement from an adult. Almost reeks of when my kids said “just go to ATM” when I said we couldn’t afford something back in the day.
Corey or Trea?
Okay, we should walk through this. But first let me point out that I never thought going after Lindor made any sense. I’ve always liked Corey Seager. We drafted him and he came up through the system, excellent clutch hitter with power, pretty good defensive skills. Definitely need to re-sign him, no maybe about it.
Just to point out I was for signing AJ Pollock, always liked his bat and skill set. Said so many times. I’m definitely not trading him. Where would be this season without his bat? The Dodgers also hold an option for 2023. Believe the trade for Max Scherzer and Trea Turner was worth the price. Okay, I thought the Dodgers should sign Bauer. Oh well.
But I’m not looking at a Corey or Trea scenario. If I’m the Dodgers, I try to keep them both. I’m going for the super team and I’m looking at the next five years. All the Dodgers need is health.
The Dodgers have money coming off the books and Bauer will be off the payroll one way or the other.
I don’t buy the loss of speed argument in Turner’s case, he’s built for speed and in the five to seven year window, I think the speed plays up. He’s a difference maker and he adds a dimension few teams in baseball have.
Corey adds the big time clutch bat, the MVP quality play. No way I let him walk. He likes LA, likes the organization and wants to play for a consistent winner. Yah, Scott Boras will be a pain in the ass, but in the end Seager should remain a Dodger. I seriously doubt a $300 million contract is in play, although many experts believe that is what Seager will get. I won’t be surprised to see the Giants become the Dodgers number one competitor for Seager’s services.
Who knows what the Yankees will do? Rumors indicate the team may be up for sale. Just can’t see Artie Moreno investing in another hitter, although the Angels could certainly be a player for Seager. The Angels and the Giants, even more incentive for the Dodgers to keep Seager.
Not sure what everybody thinks about Clayton Kershaw, but, if he’s healthy, I can’t see the Dodgers walking away. He simply means too much to LA and the Dodgers. Not all decisions can be made through a black and white landscape.
No question Kenley is gone, unless he comes back for far less money. Maybe the Giants snag him.
I have no idea what’s wrong with Mookie’s hip, a pointer or something else. I’m sure that something will be announced at the end of year. Surgery or rehab or rest. It’s not Dave Roberts job to make sure the fans know exactly what is wrong with players. It may leak out or a player may say something, but often these things are kept quiet. Mookie seems to be a very private person. Even his own assessments have proven incorrect.
Another thing I would do is keep Scherzer, maybe a two year deal. He wants to be here. Same with Kershaw.
The Dodgers don’t have to settle, they can go for the super team, make history, open up new lines of revenue.
What if MLB adds a salary cap, much like the NFL and NHL?
Aren’t they working out a new contract this off-season so is it possible that topic gets thrown out there? I’m sure there are a few teams who don’t like to see a few of the more wealthy teams pay for their championship.
Oh, and why would Giants want Seager? Brandon Crawford is pretty good you know and they just picked up Kris Bryant.
How would the Union agree to a salary cap?
What could MLB give them as a quid pro quo?
See above.
Seager, Crawford and Bryant are all free agents this year. So is Story, Baez and Correa.
MLBPA will NEVER agree to a salary cap, NEVER.
Exactly, that would quickly end all the 30mm a year 10yr and the like contracts. You would have too many still under contract making that kind of $$cabbage$$ and then salaries would drop in a year or two & no one could offer the young studs that kind of money as they come into their own.
Soft cap with fines can work as long as owners use the money to buy players. If they don’t, why bother?
How did the nfl players agree to it then?
NFL players union is not nearly as strong as the MLBPA. And the players have not given in to a cap for years. They never have even gotten close to agreeing on a cap. MLB lucky to even have the Luxury tax. Players want salaries high and will do most anything to keep it that way, also, most NFL contracts are not GUARANTEED. MLB contracts are.
I want to enjoy Betts, Lux, Trea, Seager, Bellinger, and Smith playing together on the Dodgers for years.
As Trea gets older he will still be fast just not as fast.
To me the question is whether we want Trae Turner or Cody Bellinger longterm. With an aging Justin Turner destined to become a full time DH when/if the NL adopts the DH, who better to take over the hot corner than Corey Seager? I know Seager sees himself as a shortstop, but so did Manny Machado.
Machado was insentavised to make a permanent move to third base. I like Cody Bellinger but I don’t like him as much as Corey Seager or Trae Turner. The Dodgers would be better served building around Trae Turner, Corey Seager and Mookie Betts.
An infield left to right of Seager, Turner, Mookie and Muncy would be fun to watch for the next 5 years. An outfield of Pollock, Taylor, Bellinger and Lux might be the best outfield in the league. A staff of Buehler, Scherzer, Urias, May, Duffy and Kershaw/Price. Cost? $300 million but who cares.
I’ll take an infield left to right of Seager, Turner, Mookie and Bellinger for $600M Alex.
Outfield of L to R of Taylor, Lux, Pederson.
Muncy and Pollock and pitching prospect for pitching.
Joc Pederson will never be a starting outfielder for the Dodgers again. And anyone picking him over Bellinger is a few eggs short of a dozen..
I think Fred is pulling the Pederson chain on us. He’s got all his eggs. Besides, he put Bellinger back at first. Muncy is too affordable to move him yet.
A sentence with the words always and never is best marked false on an exam.
I don’t think he will be either Bear but based on your reply, your understanding of what I said is a few tacos short of a combination plate.
If I want to put a team together for the Dodgers that would give me the most pleasure to watch, who are you to say it has to be composed of the best players at each position based on your opinion?
Joc is having a decent year after getting off to a cold start in a cold Chicago, facing an extremely good Brewer pitching staff several times in April. He has 52 RBI mostly hitting lead off and is playing center field on a surging Atlanta team; a team the Dodgers might play in the Playoffs.
If given a chance, can Joc hit lefties? YTD line against lefties: 84 AB, 2 HR, 15 RBI, .286 .368 .417 .785
RISP YTD: 79 AB .304 .352 .532 .883
Post All Star game: 80 AB, .288 .367 .475 .842
Nah, no chance Dodgers would want any of that.
The team I proposed has 4 lefty bats and 4 righty bats plus a DH and it puts Bellinger at first base and Betts at second for the purpose of staying in the flow of comments that talked about a dream infield.
Stick to history Bear, you are awesome there–a Futurist may not be in your future.
I’m guilty again Badger. People get so riled up when I talk Pederson that it is fun to do it now and again.
I like Pederson too. As a bench player. I’d rather him than McKinney and Beaty, that’s for sure.
Muncy isn’t a free agent until after ‘23. He’s $13m next year with a team option in ‘23. You keep those contracts on 5 WAR players.
Any Dodger lineup without Mookie is a Dodger lineup with a massive hole in it.
Nope, still not buying it Bum. What he is doing is the first time he has ever done it. When given that chance in LA he FAILED miserably. So did Kike when given the chance to start. Joc was fun to watch. Why would they move Belli back to first when they moved him to the outfield to protect his shoulder anyway? Sorry, your eggs have rotted.
No Problem BUM…Braves in second right now, 1 behind the Phils, but they are 6.5 back in the wild card, so unless they pass Phillie, and beat out the Mets, they will not make it. Joc is hitting .288 as a Brave and .244 overall with 14 HR’s.
Bear – he failed? He failed miserably?
I beg to differ buddy. He put up 10 WAR for about $17 million and he played verybwell in post season for us. He was a bargain
He failed when given the everyday job. When platooned he did well. Don’t get me wrong, I liked Joc and defended him many times on this site. But as the main guy, he was not that great. His fielding went down hill for a while. As soon as he left in free agency, he became persona non grata for me. Good luck in Atlanta, enjoy the offseason cause U ain’t making the playoffs.
Bear, let’s return to this conversation after the playoffs.
Lets be honest. Watch the video. She made the guy slow down, but barely laid a hand on him!!!
True
Not the first time a runner chose to run out of bounds to avoid being tackled. In this case, a good choice.
Very true, but she screwed up his momentum and the clown missed his jump. What they really need are some security guys with some serious wheels. Those cats were SLOW.
I read that guy was on the junior varsity track team a few years ago. Those security guys never ran further than from the couch to the refrigerator.
JV Track team? So, you’re telling me he’s slow. That’s about as impressive as Joc’s 100 OPS+. He’s exceptionally average. His -1 DRS in a handful of CF games is equally unimpressive.
I guess you can say that Joc is like a JV Track star. Jumbo shrimp anyone?
JV track varsity is going to have speed. How fast does someone have to be for you not to mock them?
Joc’s OPS+ was about 114 with the Dodgers. He hit over 25 home runs 4 times, over 35 once. Steve Garvey can’t say that and played every day. Joc was also outstanding in post season. Yeah, he wasn’t great defensively, but his at bats were certainly more promising than Reks, Beaty, McKinney, Peters, Raley, Souza, and Tsutsugo.
As for the the JV comment, it was an attempt at humor. Sorry if you didn’t get it.
Got to be at least Varsity, Bumsrap.
I think it’s going to be musical chairs when it comes to the FA SS market this offseason. I know Boras likes to wait out the offseason and have the market come to him. But, that may not work this time around. How many teams that need a SS have the money to spend on a long term $250M+ contract ? The Dodgers, Yankees, and Giants. So, with Seager, Story, Correa, Baez, Semien, Crawford, and others available and a limited amount of teams with the money to spend it should be fast and furious right from the get go. Those players who wait for a better deal might be standing without a chair.
As to Trea vs Corey? I’d take Trea for the excitement level he brings to the game. Like Mookie when he is healthy. Or Cody when he is able to make consistent contact. Must see players both on offense, but defense as well. Corey is an excellent hitter and can carry a team, but average defense and availability has been an issue. It’s going to be interesting and a tough call for AF.
Did not work for Dennis Schroeder, late of the Lakers. Expecting a 100 million dollar multi year deal, he had to settle for a little over 5 mil from the Celtics. Shades of Jody Reed.
Jody Reed all over again.
Jody Greed!
Wow. I knew he had told the Lakers no on a 4/$84M, but didn’t realize he had to settle on that one year deal with the Celtics. That had to be a awkward phone call from his agent (maybe ex-agent).
I would sign Seager to play 3B, if he does not agree bye, bye, he should not play SS instead of TT, always the decision must be the team first and what is best for the team is the defense of TT In the SS, even in today’s game because of J Turner’s absence, Seager should be in 3B, TT SS and CT3 2B, that’s the best defensive infield the team can put in right now.
Signing Seager long-term makes sense because he’s a special hitter but as long as it’s 3B, in the future he can play 1B and DH to keep getting his offense, like I said before, if he doesn’t agree bye, bye, thanks for the memories.
Line Up 2022:
SS TT
3B Seager
RF Betts
CF Bellinger
DH Turner
1B Muncy
LF Pollock
C Smith
2B Lux
A little early to be arguing about this. Only time will tell which direction ownership takes. When it comes to talking about injuries, Dave toes the company line and does no give much info unless they say go ahead. The Red Sox, who are in the midst of a huge flame out, are considering a lot of changes in the next few days. They have already shaken up their rotation with the expected return of Sale this weekend, but there are rumors that they are going to cut underachieving Marwin Gonzalez. I have never seen so many players on injured lists in the 60 plus years I have been watching this game. Something is definitely wrong with either the training regimen or the way players work out. The Dodgers have 16 players on the IL. Four of them out for the year, Rios, May, Kahnle and Ferguson. Including those four, four other players are on the 60 day IL. Kershaw, Duffy, Sherfy, and Nelson, who also is most likely gone for the year. Lux is the only player on the 10 day who is currently playing anywhere. How this all gets handled is going to have a huge affect these last 49 games.
Seager or T Turner? I say keep both of them. The 2B position has been a hole for awhile now. The powers that be should sit down with Trea Turner and convince him to play at 2B to finally solve that problem/hole.
I would definitely let Kenley Jansen leave. So there is that big contract gone. I would let Joe Kelly and his contract leave too. I would only sign Kershaw at a reasonable price.
The bullpen is getting better. There are 2 guys that have stepped up who I didn’t see coming, who don’t have a track record to look at and they are Bickford and Vesia.
Bickford stats suggest he is a ROOGY (at least for now during a pennant race) and I’m glad to hear Doc actually say it without actually using the word ROOGY. So Doc has been using Bickford properly (against right handed batters) and I’m glad about that.
Don’t get me wrong though, the bullpen is the weakest link on the team and stats prove it, but the bullpen is getting better. I just wish we had a couple more reliable guys with a track record to go with the best of who we currently have.
One last thing:
You want to talk about the Big Red Machine the Reds had in the 70s. When fully health, this Dodger offense is as good as that Reds offense. I’ll call it The Big Blue Machine.
They had the moniker for a while of The Big Blue Wrecking Crew. Like that better than Big Blue Machine…sounds like you are trying to imitate the 70’s Reds.
The Dodger Blue Machine.
Big Blue Steamroller
I doubt the Giants will be in the market for a SS because they will resign Crawford. At least that will be their first priority.
2 years at most. He is having a resurgent season, but in my estimation, keeping Posey will be their # 1 priority.
He’ll be 35 with some miles on him. He took last year off and this is a contract year. I’m thinking he won’t project anywhere near where he is now. But I also believe the giants want him back. 3 years maybe?
Another thing, this is all premature if they do not reach a quick agreement on a new CBA. Unlikely. It will throw the entire free agent class a huge curve. This is going to be a contentious negotiation. NL getting the DH will be on the table as will some other rule changes.
Today’s keep the winning streak going lineup
T Turner
Muncy
Smith
Seager
Taylor 3B
Bellinger
Pollock
Beaty RF
Price
Considering JT and Betts are banged up, I like these 8 guys. I’m glad Beaty is in there instead of McKinney.
His bat maybe, that lead glove, no thanks.
I was thinking the same thing.
2 players not in familiar positions:
Beaty RF
Taylor 3B
wouldn’t this be better?
Beaty 1B
Taylor CF
Trea Turner 3B
Trea Turner has never played 3B as a professional (MLB or MiLB). CT3 has 28 games and 12 starts at 3B. That would place an even less experienced 3B over CT3. Actually Max Muncy has the most experience of the remaining roster (even though very limited). With CT3 in CF, I am assuming that your lineup would then have Cody in RF. CT3 is a good defensive CF, Belli is an elite defensive CF. You could certainly make an argument with Beaty at 1B, Muncy at 3B, and CT3 in RF. But I would rather have Max, who is a far superior defensive 1B than is Beaty, at 1B. Beaty is in the lineup because of his bat. With Mookie and JT out, the offense needs more than what McKinney can provide. The lineup makes sense to me.
Makes sense to me too.
But I say again, any Dodgers lineup without Mookie Betts is a Dodgers lineup with a hole on it.
Can’t argue that. But without Mookie and JT, this gets the best offense of the remaining and the best team overall defense. Have to make due with what you got.
That’s true. It just puts more pressure on everyone else. Each inning that goes by without a run portends a close game and we know how those have gone.
I can think of quite a few reasons why Roberts should be elusive about player injuries and I think others can as well if they think about it.
Me too. No reason to give competitors ANY info they could possibly use against you.
Betts placed on the 10 IL and he is returning to LA to be examined. Uceta activated.. oh no, I cannot take much more of that guy. Losing Betts means that they will have a 3 man bench with Turner ailing. What in the blue blazes is the front office thinking??
I’d rather have Tut Tut back than Uceta.or better yet Matt Davidson.
Have to agree with you there, at least Tsutsugo is now starting to hit, but they need a RH bat more than a lefty. Either move would require moving someone off of the 40. Neither of those guys on the 40 man.
I think we need to succeed with 7 hitters.
Didn’t get a chance to thank you yesterday Bear I was busy all day
Much appreciated for all your hard work. I have memories back to 1959. The memory gets a little foggy ,but to read your excellent presentation, it all comes flooding back
Seems to me Mookie should have been examined the last time he was on the DL. From what I have read if you keep playing with an impingement, you can damage the labrum to a point where arthroscopic surgery won’t work and they have to really slice you
open to repair it . You’re talking about a much longer recovery time if that’s the case
Thank you, I really appreciate it. I remember 59 really well. I was listening to Vinny every night on my transistor while in bed. Loved Moon and Wills, thought Drysdale was a monster. Koufax had some flashes of brilliance. But Duke was still my favorite player. It was his last good season.
Despite the Baseball Gods making it tough, we still have a very talented team on the field even with Mookie, JT, CK all limited or done.
* I love the Hammer kid’s look. He does look like a Hansen Brother without the broken lenses. These are definitely BCG’s.
* Despite the win and giving up zero, we left the bags juiced in the 7th and 8th. In the 8th we spent too much time bitching at the ump about balls and strikes we forgot to swing. (his calls were accurate, by the way) A lot of pressure is put on our guy up with 2 outs because with none or one out, guys don’t have productive at bats. Muncy being an example. He failed to do the job when the game was still in doubt and then homered when it wasn’t. It didn’t matter last night but when we have lulls, this is why.
* Is anybody still in favor of platooning with Pollock? Damn, what do folks need him to do? Some fans have just never warmed up to the guy. especially Bum, who would prefer Joc over anybody. Pollock is healthy, playing good D and is hitting .309 / .895. His splits are .305 vs righties and .316 vs lefties. And a few want to platoon him. What’s this guy need to do to get a little respect (Rodney)
* Same with Seager. I remain a fan which doesn’t mean I don’t like TT. Too many folks here want him at 3rd or 1st or elsewhere. He is not a defensive wizard but he makes routine plays and hits. Tough crowd here.
* There is certainly a lot to talk and speculation right now about what the Dodgers should do next year and in the future. That’s fine stuff for useless conversations. The Lindor, Joc, K-Bear, Jo-Jo ships have sailed. Nobody has a clue about TT, JT, CK, KJ Kelly, or Seager. How will it work for Max and TT with Bellinger needing a major improvement in 2022.
* So while this is a semi-interesting and totally speculative conversation for suitable for the winter and nest spring, what I’m focused on is winning baseball games NOW. It’s not panic; it’s urgency.
* I’m not into Orel’s conversations about pitch counts and saving the bullpen one day to have a guy available for the next day. He wanted Vesia, who was dealing, out last night before 18 pitches so he’d be available today. Like at 18 pitches he needs a day’s rest. I’m extending guys within reason and circumstances to WIN ONE GAME AT A TIME. Win this one and worry about tomorrow’s game, tomorrow. I know we have 13 road games coming up and it would be swell to not overtax anybody. At same time we need to win baseball games and not coddle arms that should be more then capable at this point to go that extra inning. If we don’t, there will lots of rest time in about 1 1/2 months.
One of Friedman’s traits is signing guys who have had arm trouble. Who on this pitching staff hasn’t had something go wrong? Coddle are us.
I’m losing it with Orel. He said something last night about a pitch spinning one way moving the other, which is against the laws of physics. He also said Nola’s curve is spinning well but it’s just floating up there. That’s nonsense. If it’s spinning well, which it was, breaking 12-6 and Dodger bats were missing it, it ain’t floating up there.
When it comes to shortstops and defense, yes I am a tough crowd. That is the alpha defensive position in your infield, if not the whole team, and I want the best we can get out there. Right now the best shortstop on our team is playing second and the second best shortstop on our team is playing third base in Oklahoma. Corey Seager is way down the list defensively, but near the top offensively. That’s not my opinion, the stats are there for all to see.
It is my opinion that someone other than Seager will be our starting shortstop next season. This season? Obviously Corey stays where he is.
Orel gets more annoying each broadcast. He needs a few days off so Nomah can be on the show.
I try to stay away from saying who I think is the best player and instead say who I like to watch.
Agreed, Pollock is having another good regular season. If traded, I would want value back.
I like to watch the best players.
Are you doing it again Bum?
Rain forecast to start in 30-45 min from this post. Forecast to go for 90-120 minutes.
cheers
Yeah that sky looks menacing
Price get out of it
Time to get a lead
Smart move by Philly Mgr to not pitch his best pitcher and waste him for 2 innings only like what will happen to us. I doubt Price comes back out so say bye bye to him…..see you in 5 days.
He learned something from last night.
Too bad Doc didn’t. So now we will have two bullpen games assuming we resume and finish this game.
Who would you have started?
Who were we pitching tomorrow ? Move them up one day.
Quack
White
Greene
?
Anyone but Price so we could pitch him tomorrow.
Well, it does not really change anything. Tomorrow is a day game, who knows what the weather will be. And if they cannot get this game in, they will play 2 tomorrow before going to NY who are playing a double header today. Padres lost to the Marlins 7-0 today. Now 7.5 back of the Giants.
I didn’t expect Price to come back and pitch….that keeps us from over taxing the pen today
Pen still pitching 5 innings, but Bazooka went 2.
And down it comes. Seager made a great play at short and threw out a speedy runner. Leave him where he is. I despise the weather in Pennsylvania. I remember many times being in storms that came out of nowhere and lasted a couple of hours totally disrupting traffic and my schedule. Build a dome! Turner leading the NL in hitting…for now anyway.
What an at bat for Bellinger
That was epic
Such a beautiful thing we’ve all been praying for
Hoping the gods are having pity on us
Knock on wood.
Or maybe they think we’ve been spanked enough , again knock on wood
Are you worried about rain? The forecast shows rain there till 11
If you’re talking to me TM , I was referring to all the bad luck we’ve had with injury this year hoping they were giving us belli back
Nothing is quite like the joy you feel when a pitcher hits a gapper with an RBI to boot!
Belli’s last 7 games…. .318/.375/.818. I guess the problem of CT3 needing to take his spot fixed itself.
Maybe Lux will come back from the IL fixed.
Stranger things have happened. Seager just dove for a ball.
Bellinger saved some ass again, with the glove this time.
I doubt we see Price in the 5th…agree?
I would end his day but you never know with Doc.
I know what’s going on with our starting pitching but I just don’t like David Price. He had a 778 OPS coming into the game and I bet it goes up after this game.
Well, our options are few thanks to the following no shows:
Bauer
Kershaw
Gonsolin
May
154-81 career record. 3.31 career ERA. I do not think the Dodgers care much about what you think about Price. They evaluate players differently than you do. And he has always been a starter. The more he pitches, the better he gets. And he induces soft contact. The two runs tonight came on balls that were not hit hard, just somewhere that no one was playing.
As I recall it, the sticking point on Lindor was Lux. Was Ruiz part of that proposed package? I don’t recall that being actually reported, and perhaps we’ll never know what offer was on the table. I’m sure there were a lot of moving parts.
But who now wouldn’t have given up Lux in a deal for Lindor, a multiple All Star with several gold gloves. If you checked his career stats at that juncture, Lindor was on a HOF trajectory. His recent struggles are not indicative of the player he has proven himself to be–while Lux’s struggles (especially against lefthanded pitching) may well reveal his limitations. Besides, the argument for Lindor over Seager was always, primarily, about the glove–because we’ve always known that Seager is a mediocre fielder at best. Getting Lindor would have forced Seager to move to either 3B or 1B–and the Dodgers would have won more games as a result. Plus, Lindor would have replaced Joc at the top of the order–and that would have won same games too.
The only reason I’m OK with that deal falling through is that AF then turned his attention to Mookie, who in addition to being an major offensive force is a Gold Glover. Very happy that worked out.
Listening to today’s game, I heard Rick Monday bemoan how the Dodgers messed up a routine double play–and that led to runs for the Phillies. Now, I didn’t see the play–I don’t who flubbed it–but it reflects how games often turn on defense. And these mistakes don’t necessarily get recorded as errors or measured in conventional statistics.
As I mentioned in a previous conversation, one reason the Giants are four games up on the Dodgers is that Brandon Crawford can make plays that Seager/Lux/Taylor can’t. Crawford was winning Gold Gloves in the NL Gold Gloves when Lindor was getting that hardware in the AL. We like to think that Seager is clearly superior to Crawford–but check out Crawford’s hitting stats and you may be surprised.
Should Trea Turner take over SS? Probably not yet. It would be disruptive and moving Seager to third or first would create problems as well.
I love fielding highlights. All those “web gems.” My baseball crazed son and I look them up on Youtube. And it’s really pretty rare to see any Dodger except Mookie or Belli make these plays. (Justin just had a great one–and he strained his groin.)
OK, Dodgers are now up 5-2 in the 7th as I write this….. But if Monday is right, it should be 5-0
.
I do not even remember if there was any real conversation about Lindor before he went to the Mets. What I do know, is that so far he has not handled NL pitching.
6-2 now. Bullpen unscored on so far again. Taylor not having a good night at the dish. Bellinger hits another, 2 HR’s, 4 RBI’s. Cody is coming back.
3Ks, 2 Bombs. This season is as crazy as Belli’s hitting.
Is 6 runs enough for Ucenta to mop up?
Yep.
… and send Bellinger to AAA.
Trade Pollock.
… and why did they sign Pujols?
Oh, and the bullpen can’t be trusted.
Finally, Roberts is an idiot!
There… no one has to post tomorrow!
I said it all!
I’ve pst twice tonight, and no doubt not done.
Who’s Ucenta?
Even Beaty contributed. But Taylor needs a nap,
Edwin?
Yep, Edwin, he lowered his ERA to 7 with his one shutout inning. Missed Jumbo Jack by one K. Miggy hit HR # 499 tonight. Congrats. Will be in the 500 club soon.
Mr Pessimistic! Common Mark come join us in the Optimistic Club! We never had any doubts!
Maybe the last thing coaches wanted was for him to change his swing. Like they perhaps know as his regains the strength he’ll get back to his MVP old self and see it best to avoid learning what would be bad habits in his case.
Belli’s 13 pitch at bat against Gibson was impressive. He did have trouble catching up to the high fastball again, but over all, Belli seems to be coming alive. 8 game hitting streak, 4 HR’s in his last 4 games. 4 RBI’s tonight. With Betts down, they need that bat. Bullpen, you watching Eric? Perfect again.
Bullpen game tomorrow. Wonder if they will call up White to make the start. Bazooka looked great tonight. First time I have seen him go two innings. Suarez starting for the Phillies. Mets have to play a doubleheader tomorrow. Mookie left for LA to be checked out. Reddick signs a deal with the Mets.