What If Mookie Doesn’t Come to LA?

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1. The Athletic ranked each team’s uniforms. The Texas Rangers were last. The Yankees were #2.

   Dodgers still #1!!!

2. But Mookie is coming to LA, unless he isn’t … but he’s going somewhere and it won’t be San Diego, unless the Red Sox decide they value prospects more than cash. But then that doesn’t exactly solve Boston’s stated goal of getting under the cap.

   So, what happens without Mookie? Life is good, the Dodgers win the NL West again, pick up a couple of players at the trade deadline and head into the playoffs. If they play well, get a break or two, the Dodgers end up in the World Series with a chance to win it.

   But and this is somewhat of an issue, the Dodgers and the fans will have a sense of letdown heading into the season. There has been so much talk about Mookie and some reports are already reaching the conclusion that Betts will be a Dodger, only a matter of days until the announcement. Expectations. After a frustrating winter coming away without Cole or Rendon, the Dodgers will have failed again if they don’t land Betts.

   It would be better for everyone, the team, the fans to have gone from Fan Fest to spring training on a high note, no Mookie talk at all. But Friedman said the Dodgers were still engaged in on going talks (do they actually ever end?).

   Then it leaked, a drip at first, would Boston really trade their franchise player? Now we see multiple reports daily, some from Boston, LA and everywhere else in the country. Now Peter Gammons has weighed in …

   You bring up a good point, Mark, regarding Fenway Park, it just plays differently. Bill Plunkett (OC Register) offered similar thoughts the other day when he noted he’s always suspect regarding the stats of Red Sox hitters because of Fenway.

   Then, there are reports that say the Dodgers consider Betts to be a legitimate difference maker and a player they have long term interest, which may go beyond just one year.

   I’m guessing if Verdugo is being included in the trade, the Red Sox have seen the medical reports.

   The listed trade may end up with a change or two before it is announced or it could fall apart. My problem is I really like the players we have and I will hate to see a player like Verdugo leave. I enjoy watching him and I really like the energy he brings. Then again, if you’re going to acquire a legitimate difference maker, particularly before the season starts, you’re going to give up players you like.

   It’s hard to believe the Red Sox would give up Betts, but they’ve dealt and signed themselves into a financial mess, one without flexibility and a lot of bad long term contracts, something the Dodgers have avoided.

   One final note, regarding prospects and somebody pointed out this the other day on the MLB network, teams like the Dodgers have a far better understanding of prospects today, their ability to contribute or become major league stars than they did 20 years ago. The whole development and evaluation system has changed.

3. If the Dodgers took on Price, I’d like to see him in the bullpen. Might add a few miles to his fastball and be more than serviceable. I’m with you on Verdugo. AF hasn’t traded him before and if he is sticking to his long term plan I don’t see him going to Boston.

4. Am I the only one or does it seem that Verdugo isn’t a great fit in the clubhouse or with the front office? I don’t think talent wise it’s a good deal including him for one year of Betts but maybe there’s something more going on here.

5. I think Verdugo is fine in the clubhouse and he does a great job in the community, including doing things that aren’t publicized. I’m guessing some of that stems from a couple of years ago, but since Rich Hill had a talk with him and he came back up last year, he’s been fine. Rookie thing.

   There is always something else going on, Cassidy, but we can only speculate. My focus would be on the outfield. If Betts becomes a Dodger, two spots, right and center, will have full-time starters. That leaves left with Pederson, Pollock, Hernandez and Taylor. Is another trade in the works to move one of those outfielders? Possibly. Probably. Since Two can play the infield, that would seem to leave Joc as the most likely trade candidate.

   1. Could easily see Joc on the trading block. Wonder if the arbitration hearing is delaying any moves?

   2. If Dodgers get Betts, they would have to make roster room for him and an OF or even 2 must be moved.

6. I would rather push some chips in for Arenado.
   Fills a position of need, 3B, where we have no one in the system, for the next 6 seasons. Plus, his deal only takes him to his 34th year, so should not have declined significantly unlike some of those long term deals (Gerrit Cole), where there’s no production at the back end.

   I realise that we would have to give up more to secure him, but if we’re giving up someone as good as Verdugo, I would rather it was more impactful than just a one year rental – and I love Mookie.
   If he goes, make AV the centrepiece of a bigger trade.
   We can go all in on Mookie next season – just a Draft Pick plus of course lots of $$$.

   Imagine a team of Nolan, Mookie, Belli, Corey, Gav, Max, Will or Ruiz at its core with Walker, Dustin, Big Tone & JGray on the mound??

   That would be a team worth watching!!

   1. …….and Urias

   2. Who is Big Tone?

   3. 3B Vargas is in the wings as is Hoese.

      1. And Michael Busch — then there are Jacob Amaya, Andy Pages, Daniel Cartaya, et al who we will all be discussing as the next top prospects

   4. As far as Arenado goes, if he feels a real need to get out of Colorado sooner rather than later, he may except a deal to the Cardinals as I understand it. He probably knows the Rockies won’t deal him within the division. But then they also know that he will opt out after the 2021 season and will not get anything much if that ends up being what happens.

7. If Verdugo must be part of the trade for Betts I do hope the Dodgers pass. Betts is a great player but for only one year rental, not worth the loss of Verdugo.

   1. I agree. Including Verdugo would be a significant change in operating style for Friedman which I don’t expect. The only caveat being that Verdugo did not revert to history of immature behavior, poor discipline and work ethic. I don’t think that is the case. It seems that Verdugo’s name has only come up in suppositions — not even to the point of being considered a rumor.

8. I really really like Verdugo. I really really hope we keep him. I think he’ll be really really good. Maybe even make a couple all star games, maybe even have a shot at a gold glove.

   But if we can get a guy who will instantly become the best player in the National League (at least top 4 with Yelich and Belly and Ocuna), you move Verdugo. Really good to really great is a massive leap, and I”m not sure if Verdugo has “really great” talent. You have to give to get. And you can’t give solid talent to get a top 5 MLB player. You have to give up potential impact talent.

9. All the grief AF takes for not making major deals and then when it comes time to pony up at market price everyone wants to keep all their precious youngsters! You cant have it both ways! All those in favor of dealing Verdugo hands up and those opposed hands down. But the hands downers have to put a sock in it and stop complaining about AF. I’m hands up

   1. Hands down and I have not complained about Friedman’s trading MO

   2. If the rumors of Verdugo, Downs and Ferguson are true, that’s OK by me. Hands up.

10. Mark, you stated it fairly, both sides. In my amateur opinion, I would like to see the Dodgers keep Verdugo especially if getting Betts is a one year deal. I agree it might be better to wait until he decides to go free agent. I cannot see him agreeing not to, no matter what is offered to him money wise. Not many have.

11. I am sure glad to read most of the responses in favor of keeping Verdugo versus one year of Betts. The Dodgers are not going to pay $350 million for Betts long term even if he wants to stay. And please don’t take on Price’s salary. That will effect our moves at the trade deadline. I am afraid AF may be tired of hearing the fans complain and get Betts just to shut them up. I sure hope not. Also, if Boston wants Verdugo I am hoping that means he is or will be healthy.

12. The fans don’t pay AF’s salary and as long as 4 mil of us fill the stadium he’s not influenced by the fans complaint’s!

13. Hands down!

    1. Mark, hello there. Just for information purposes, it has been noted that Dodger Stadium leans towards being pitcher friendly but I am not sure based upon what we have seen take place more and more here, the HR. Last year in total there were 143 HR’s hit by Dodgers at the stadium and the opponents added 105 for a total of 248. Most likely other parks have a bigger combined total but remember we have seen the Dodgers go yard several times in many home games over the past few years as well as the opponents. Recall on OD in 2019 when the Dodgers set a MLB record for OD HR’s with 8 !!!!!!!!!!!

14. Hands down! I want Mookie as much as anybody. But Verdugo would be tough for me strait up for one year of Mookie. If it’s Verdugo, Downs and Ferguson? Hands way down. I don’t believe for a second AD would pull the trigger on that one. Not for a rental. Even if it’s a damn good rental.

15. Many Dodgers fans are loath to give up any but lower-tier players. I don’t know quite why. I understand fan loyalty, and liking your own team’s players. But without the benefit of following the fan bases of other franchises, I think that Dodgers fans tend to fall more in love with their younger players than most if not all of the other fanbases. People don’t want to give up May. Or Lux. Or Gonsolin. Or Urias (that has gone on for years). Now Verdugo. Whom do fans want to consider giving up? Players whom no other team values much, like Henandez or Stripling? Some don’t even want to consider trading Stripling.

    You can’t trade all your top young players, but you cannot keep all of them, not if you want to pick up a great player. You can go after free agents, but we always consider ourselves priced out of the best ones. So that doesn’t leave us with any other route obtaining a star player, other than by hoping that our young players become stars. And that has proven to be a mixed result, as one would imagine. A few, like Bellinger, Buehler seem already to be; Kershaw of course when he first came up. Who else? Seager is pretty good, but certainly not great. Pederson? Barnes ? Stripling? Kenley was for a few years. Urias certainly not yet. I don’t know why many Dodgers fans are so sure that our minor league system is so great that we are going to be bringing up a steady stream of stars. And of course any of them could leave for more money after six years; Seager may well do that even before he has become a major star.

    Could Verdugo be really good? Sure, or he could turn out to be solid but not great. Are we so afraid that we will be trading another Pedro Martinez? That can happen, but usually doesn’t. And if it does, it is just one part of it, and can be made up for. The Cubs knew that Gleiber Torres was one of the most touted young players in the minors, but they wanted to finally win a title, so they traded him for Chapman for one season. Even though Chapman was not great in the WS, he was a big help to the Cubs getting that title, which they now have, while we do not for 31 years. We held on to Pederson rather than trade him for Lester, at least according to Molly Knight. We didn’t want to pick up Verlander’s salary for an extra year, Houston did. I know that AC has made a good point about Dodgers’ financial straits at the time, but the pattern is consistent. The ownership and many of the fans value the more talented young prospects over already proven stars.

    Now, of course the question of “for how long do we keep him?” is crucial. i don’t know the answer re Betts. I would hope we could sign him, and i think there is a pretty good chance, if we were indeed serious about trying to get Cole. I think that Betts would add some much needed excitement to our club and lineup. He balances out the RHH-LHH part. He adds some speed, which we really do not have a lot of. And he gives us a better chance to win the title than does Verdugo.

    And again I would say that the idea of “let’s just try to win the NL West, and then hope for a break or two to win it all,” has not worked for 31 years. Getting Betts is no sure thing, the Yankees are likely still better; our starting staff is not formidable, and our supposed closer was basically not used by the manager in the playoffs, and here is he is, back again in that role. We have not patched one hole yet. Imagining that Wood or Nelson or even Treinen is going to make a big difference, is iffy in Treinen’s case, and very wishful for the other two. At least Betts would fill a hole, the lack of a right-handed power bat. That would be something, at least. And if we could possibly sign him long term, then we have made ourselves a strong contender for years. I don’t see how one can reasonably extrapolate from Verdugo’s half a season to say that he would do that. I would definitely make the trade mentioned. I’m still quite concerned about how our pitching staff will hold up with the unproven talent, and the bullpen with no closer and Roberts’ tendency to burn the pitchers out early in the season. So we could be in some trouble , regardless. Getting and signing Betts would at least fill in one of our major gaps.

16. AC brought up Mark Kertenian yesterday. While I am sad to see him leave RC after only one, really good, season; I’m happy he’s moving his way through the organization. I hope AC’s son is correct about the Dodger’s plans for him. He is a class act.

    Mark was always really cool to my son (12) last year. He would come out and chitchat with fans along the LF line before games. He would always come over and talk to my son. I remember one game in particular. My son was chatting with Mark and asked if he could have the lineup card after the game. Mark said he’d save it for him. Mark got ejected for arguing a call during the game. My son figured no lineup card. After the game, the 3b coach waved my son over and handed him the card. Mark had made sure my son got it, even after being ejected. Which was crazy. I wouldn’t have any expectation that a promise to a kid would be on his mind after being tossed out of a game. But that’s the kind of guy Mark is.

    After the Quakes final game of the season (playoff loss to the Lake Elsinore Storm), my son was waiting outside the stadium to say goodbye to some of his favorite guys. Mark came out of the locker room actually looking for my son. He saw him and and ran over to give him his fungo bat he’d used all season. It has the Dodger logo and says “Kertenian” on the knob. It instantly became one of my son’s favorite baseball items. But it’s not sitting in his bedroom with all his other memorabilia. Mark made him promise that he’d use it, not just hang it on a wall. So we have. It was my son’s team fungo bat in fall ball. And it will be the team fungo again when Spring practices start next week.

    I’d like nothing more than to see coach Mark manage the big club one day. He’d have a superfan from day one.

    1. Great story of Mark Kertenian interacting with your son!
       Love to hear the Dodgers and their affiliates working with the community.
       Thanks for sharing this Jayne!

    2. I emailed my son your story and he just laughed and said, that is who Mark is. He is truly genuine and will get the most out of everyone he interacts with.

17. 1. I like Fergusson and Stripling and would prefer to keep both.

    2. Now that Lindor said he is in top 5 and wants to be paid as such, maybe it will be easier to re-sign Seager/Boras.

    3. I haven’t gotten attached to Gonsolin or Ruiz or Downs yet so I won’t be pained if they are traded.

    4. Because so many people here like Verdugo I would have some regrets if he were traded but adding Betts to a crowded outfield without moving Bellinger to first or trading an outfielder is problematic.

    5. Betts would add to the viewing pleasure of the Dodgers.

    1. OH yeah, I am a hands up for Mookie and also okay with trading Verdugo, Ruiz, and Downs to get him.

       1. Bumswrap, I am OK but for a 1 year rental, I am not sure all 3 ya mentioned should be dealt. And again, what happens if Boston insists upon Dodgers taking on Price and his remaining deal? That in of itself changes what Dodgers would have to part with, and IMHO Boston certainly cannot have their cake and eat it too.

18. I am hands up. I believe the Dodgers roster needs a shake up, and IMO Mookie Betts is a big game changer. That is not to say that Alex Verdugo is not potentially a very good OF (offensively and defensively), but he is not at the level of Mookie Betts. No shame in that. I like Jeter Downs, but he is nowhere close to being at the Seager or Lux level. And everyone should know how I feel about Caleb Ferguson. But Caleb is not a game changer.

    I also discount all who think that Mookie is only going to be a Dodger for one year. AF is not stupid and realizes what it is going to take to sign Mookie next year. He has read what Mookie is looking for. If he was not at all interested in looking to re-sign Mookie, this trade scenario would not have gotten as far as it seemingly has. The Dodgers offered Gerrit Cole $300MM for 8 years ($37.5MM AAV). I am guessing that the Dodgers would be comfortable with offering Mookie 10 years $375MM (same $37.5MM AAV). 10 years for an OF is lot less risky than 8 years for a pitcher. I think Mookie will like LA. He has the “star” personality that LA craves. The Dodgers can absorb the salary from 2019 Mookie ($27MM) and 2019 Joc ($9MM) and reduced contract for JT. If AF is so fearful about not signing players after their FA year, then they should trade JT for whatever they can get, and look to trade Seager who should garner an even bigger haul with two years. But AF will sign players in their walk year if the negotiations are reasonable. He overpaid for KJ/JT/Dick Mountain after they hit FA after 2016.

    AF would also not make the deal if he did not believe that Mookie is a difference maker in 2019. A good part of me believes “If not now, when?”. The loss of Verdugo will be tough, but you are not going to get one of the top 5 baseball players for Omar Estevez/DJ Peters/Jeren Kendall/Edwin Uceta or John Rooney.

    When the season ended last year, the consensus on this site and almost every baseball publication was that the Dodgers needed to upgrade their starting pitching, relief pitching, and RH bat. AF went hard for Gerrit Cole, the only true difference making pitcher available thru FA. I also have not seen one Ace or #2 traded this winter. They will wait until the trade deadline to see who might be available, and the Dodgers will still have the prospect cache’ to make that trade. Unless Urias/May/Wood/Maeda/Nelson come through.

    Relief – The Dodgers did sign Blake Treinen who would be the best reliever on the market if he returns to 2018 level. Sure it is a big if as is any reliever. I am sure the Dodgers have reviewed all of the medicals and are comfortable that Treinen will at least be healthy. Nobody can predict the future, especially with relievers, but I like the odds of Treinen being a legit setup. More importantly, AF and his talent evaluating staff believe so. KJ has gone to Driveline to work on his cutter, and the reports are that his cutter is getting back to the 2017 level with spin rate and movement, even though not with the same velocity. If either of these relievers convert back to close where they were in 2018 and 2017, the back end will be solid. The Dodgers are also extremely high on Dennis Santana as a reliever. Tony Gonsolin can be a very effective reliever if AF and Doc so choose. Brett de Geus is not far away. Ken Giles and his elbow is just as iffy as Blake Treinen.

    Finally, the big RH bat. None bigger available than Mookie Betts, and he will cost. Again it was not just the balancing, but many complained about the hitting with RISP and with RISP w/2 outs. Mookie throughout his career has been exceptional with RISP.

    Career RISP – .332/.431/.551/.982
    Career RISP w/2 outs – .322/.451/.550/1.001

    He also hits RHP and LHP equally well.

    Career vs RHP – .300/.371/.516/.886
    Career vs LHP – .304/.384/.531/.914

    Hands up for Mookie for me.

    1. Concur, but Boston again cannot expect the ‘world’ for a 1 year rental.

    2. If the Dodgers have a realistic probability of signing Betts to a long term deal, I agree completely. Even in the best case scenario, Betts will be better than Alex.

       Maybe that’s why a deal hasn’t been consummated. For all we know AD is negotiating a Betts contract prior to shaking hands on a deal.

19. Ok I’ll play. A trade for Betts ON MY TERMS that according to the trade simulator would be accepted.

    Jeter Downs, Adam Kolarek, Diego Cartaya, Luis Rodriguez for Mookie Betts.

    My way of saying I’m a hands down on a trade for Betts.

    1. I think Cartaya and Rodriguez are more valuable individually than Verdugo. If forced to choose, I would substitute Verdugo for those two.

       1. Huh, I’ve never read anywhere that Cartaya and Rodriguez are more valuable than Verdugo. I may have missed the memo, that’s possible. But in my eyes Verdugo is way more valuable than those 2.

          1. Ya, Verdugo has MLB playing time. And has been very productive in that time. Cartaya hasn’t even seen A Ball yet.

             1. Maybe I should have phrased it as future value. Those two were the Dodger’s top international signings in their classes. They may flame out or they may be studs. You know what you have with Verdugo. I prefer to hold onto prospects until you know what you have. Just my opinion.

20. I am OK with Verdugo being moved if that what it takes, but more concerned about Dodgers having to take on all of Price’s deal, to which Boston wants. But then they cannot expect much in the way of a prospect haul for a 1 year rental, and that is key here. Verdugo is among a plethora of LHB as well on this team.

    1. Paul:

       If I read that right you’re OK with Verdugo being moved becase he is LHB. Guess who was our leading hitter(.327) vs LHP? He was only one of two Dodger hitters who broke the .300 level. The other hitter was at .323. Just FYI

       1. RichieF, it certainly does not have to be Verdugo, it could be Joc or Beaty or someone else. I am just saying we have a plethora of LHB that perhaps one can be moved to balance out he lineup

          1. Gotcha Paul

             1. Let him play for a year without cheating. We know the benefits of knowing what pitch is coming from both the RS and the Astros. I would rather know what’s coming in Petco Park than hit in Coors field without knowing. Verdugo should not be let go if his back isn’t a long term issue. Stay the course, avoid changing the plan for a guy who may be a great cheater and only a good ball player.

21. The longer we go without a deal being made (or not) the more likely I see Preller jumping in and grabbing Mookie with something very creative. Preller knows his job is on the line this year so he’s likely to take more chances than AF, whose job is very secure. In the words of MT, “Friedman won’t do a dope fiend move” and in my words “but Preller might”.

22. Saw this on Twitter:

    LHP Robinson Ortiz is the latest Dodgers pitching prospect that could move quickly in the system. In his age 19 season, the Dodgers aggressively assigned him to Class A where he held his own in 86 IP. Strikeouts were down and walks were up but the lefty still managed a 4.25 xFIP.

23. I just came across an interview with Julio Urias and the biggest info I got from the interview is that he is a team player and will do whatever the Dodgers call upon him to do.

    That being said his career stats are WAY BETTER as a reliever (same with Wood by the way).

    Combine that with Alex Wood saying in an interview with David Vassegh he picked the Dodgers because he was promised that he would be a starter. Combine that with Maeda’s contract that pays him more as a starter and him demanding to be a starter. I gotta believe AT THIS POINT the starting rotation will be Buehler, Kershaw, Wood, Maeda with the 5th spot open for competition.

    Who has WAY BETTER stats as a starter than a reliever (even though it’s a small sample)? Dustin May. I predict Dustin May will fill the 5th spot in the starting rotation but anything could happen.

24. Well I guess if we don’t get Betts there’s always Puig! And I think he’ll sign for less than 400 mil. It would make Carlos happy!

    1. There’s always NOBODY! He has a better WAR than Puig!

25. There were a lot of pissed off people when AF made that deal with Cincy last year. Everyone always talks about the calls they made that worked out but who will man up and admit they were wrong on this one?

    1. I was spot on!

       It was addition by subtraction.

       I knew that Gray and Downs were good… but I had no idea they were this good!

26. So are we willing to trade what could be 30 WAR over 5 years for 8 WAR in 2020?

    I think not!

27. That’s a little high for Verdugo. Maybe 25 WAR. And you have to be a little nervous about the back and core injuries for someone as young as Verdugo. We’ll see in next few days. But Red Sox lose Verdugo if Price is thrown in for me. I’d rather give up Downs over Ruiz and Ferguson over Gray

28. By the time I get to Staples Center tomorrow evening, I expect Betts to be a Dodger.

    If anyone will be at the Laker game tomorrow night, let’s meet up for a drink!

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