Is It Joe Maddon Time?

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1. Is this the same Mark Timmons who wrote an article yesterday? Who said its on the players not Friedman and Roberts. WOW!
   Gallows Humor–Kelly retains his nickname as Dodger Killer for one more year.
   Plenty of young guys in the pipeline. But will Kelly and Stikeout Pollock jam them up. As for Seager I would say it is time to move on for him also. He is not 21 years old and has shown what he can (cannot) do in playoffs enough times

   1. I agree about Seager. Last month I wrote I wouldn’t try and sign Redon as there was no place for him. After seeing Seager flail at sliders in the dirt for 2 post seasons (2017 & 19) I’m ready to move on. Trade Seager sign Rendon and use a combination of Lux, Taylor and Hernandez at short.

      Getting Rendon would balance out the lineup, put less pressure on Bellinger and extend the lineup beyond what Seager provides (as well as less strikeouts). Something is missing from this team.

   2. Roberts is a great manager of young men, keeping everyone on message and happily competing, but he seems to go blind when it comes to choosing the right pitcher at the right time. I was shocked when Kelly came in instead of leaving Maeda in to go as many innings as possible. He is a starter and dominated the Nats completely. Instead, we get the risky, unknown injured Kelly in hopes he will perform like he did last October. Kershaw is another matter entirely. His resume is unmatched and he is the kind of man we all hope our daughters fall for, but he has a special version of the yips, it seems.

2. Kevin Kennedy
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   @KevinKennedyMLB
   9h9 hours ago
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   I understand the Kershaw move as bad as that turned out but trust Kelly more than your closer Kenley Jansen. I don’t have an answer for that..does Dave? Got to be kidding me. Kelly was a disaster this yr+ he’s had shoulder issues! Doc has to answer for that

   Could not agree more !!

   Kelly and Pollock were disaster signings by Friedman and to trust a guy that was a wreck all season and after pitching a great inning expect him to pitch another inning was a dumb decision as guy has not been in good shape . Total disrespect for Kenley Jansen. Doc lost clubhouse there !

   1. Roberts didn’t trust Jansen against Rendon/Soto. Sad statement about Jansen.

   2. I have not forgotten that Friedman signed Darvish instead of Verlander. How did that work out?

3. Friedman or Doc Roberts have to go or both ! Friedman is responsible for signing 2 mediocre players to huge contracts that are overrated. He did not address bullpen situation and if it was not for huge seasons from RYU ,Bellinger, Muncy, Smith and others the team would not have won as much games and team advanced because the NL West is worst division of all baseball apart from AL Central. Dodgers need to change , owners have been cheap and passive on spending and not signing the big names instead going with mediocre overpaid players. Get a Mookie Betts , Cole, etc. People here disrespect the Wild Horse but did brought his game on postseason not like Seager , Kershaw ,Pollock and company !!!

   1. Yes, get rid of Roberts and Friedman. Go get Betts, Cole and Rendon! Blow up the payroll like we did with the A-Gone trade and put this team over the top. Go for 120 wins and put this to bed. Buy a freaking Championship GD it! Enough is enough!

4. I feel like I was just in a terrible auto accident. I make an ill-advised left turn across traffic in my 1975 VW Beetle and notice the car bearing down on me. It seems it’s all happening in slow motion. I step on the gas, but I am driving Hitler’s revenge and it has no acceleration – just noise. I think to myself, “That car is going to hit me! That car is going to hit me!”. And then Bang! “That car just hit me!” It’s all glass and crunch and my head goes bouncing against the window frame. Then it’s just quiet – quiet and angry and mournful. Right now I want to fire everyone including the locker-room attendant. How could he let this happen?

   I don’t like to second guess, but I can tell you that when Roberts put in Kershaw, I said to my wife, “I’ve got a bad feeling about this. (That car is going to hit me!) When he struck out the batter for the 3rd out I took a breath, but when he came out to face the heart of the lineup the next inning, I had that bad old feeling again. (That car is going to hit me!). When Joe Kelly came out, I recalled all of his blown games. He started out fine, but as the inning wore on I could see he was starting to lose his location. (That car is going to hit me!) Then “Bang” it hit me and the rest of the Dodgers and their faithful fans. All that is left is quiet and angry and mournful.

   1. Excellent!

   2. It’s a little sad, that I’d feel apprehension about Kershaw coming in, he is a legend after all. I can maybe see Roberts angle. He might be thinking, this is a tough spot, how can people criticize me if I ask one of the franchise’s best pitchers to win it for us. From a rearview evaluation, this reasoning would probably work for a lot of blind, blue faithful fans. To the more metric minded folks or folks with long memories, the move is definitely open for criticism.

      Man, it reminded me of earlier this season facing the Angels. Bases loaded and only a grand slam would put us behind the 8 ball. Up steps Mike Trout. Don’t pitch to this guy, walk him if you have to and give up the single run, I was thinking to myself. This can’t end well. Next pitch, is over the fence.

   3. Me too, but when he got the strikeout it was way off and luckily flailed at. Ugly was to come I felt.

5. At least they’re not a gutless group like Lebron and the Lakers that takes orders from China..

6. I do think Doc has to go. I am not mad at the players. Baseball is a hard game game to play. Yes we had some players that did not play well. However we played well enough to win. Doc and Jansen cannot exist together. One has to go. Doc showed no confidence in Jansen. Why was Kolarek not used in the 8th? That is what he is on the roster for. He has been successful pitching to good left hand batters. That could of won the game for us. I am not mad at Kelly. He did not pitch much in September due to injuries. The most you could expect from him is one inning. Asking him to go two was stupid.

   We need somebody new. I have seen the same horror movie now for four years. You cannot get rid of all the players. Doc has what we call “brainfarts” or “senior moments”. He is brain dead in the playoffs.

7. This year’s Dodgers was a great team. Sometimes the best team doesn’t make it. We started out well enough last night, but we quit and didn’t pile on. That was a very disappointing and bitter end to a magical season.

   I was concerned that the band wasn’t playing together down the stretch of the season. They really didn’t look hot during this series.

   I was completely infuriated that they didn’t transition Urias to the rotation at the end of the season.

   The bullpen was a problem all season and they did nothing to address this.

   The team is too left handed, still too many changes to the lineup on a daily basis.

   Doc is a bad manager and a bad driver. His W/L record doesn’t matter – see Don Mattingly.

   Hoarding prospects does not win Championships. You need to sell some in order to put you over the top.

   The two managers that I don’t want to see are Joe Maddon and Bruce Bochy. I would rather see them bring Scioscia home for a few years.

   Stop shifting with a runner at first. Play a normal double play defense.

   I don’t think we need to blow this thing up, but we do need to make some changes. We have a great young core of talent to build around.

   Last night’s loss is squarely on Doc and CK’s shoulders. It was just a stupid decision to bring him in there to face the meat of the lineup. I saw it coming from miles away. Doc had a lead and a full bullpen and went to the guy who gives up homers like they’re going out of style and can barely touch 91 against a team that hits lefties well and doesn’t hit the fastball heat well. Maeda dominates his inning and he gets pulled after 1, but they go to two guys that already sucked for us in the same series? Kelly had a nice inning, don’t press your luck. Kershaw was just a dumb move on so many levels.

   I hate to say it, but I’m happy for the Nats. If not us, it might as well be them. They’re hitting through the holes in the shift. They have table setters at the top of their lineup and a powerful left/right combo in the middle. They steal bases and play small ball when needed. They aren’t analytics only.

   I really don’t know about Kershaw. He’s a legend, but clearly isn’t a shut down pitcher anymore. He should have got surgery on his back the offseason after he initially injured it. I feel really bad for him. I don’t want him to pitch for another team, but I don’t want him to cost us yet another post season.

   Top offseason priorities…

   Fire Doc
   Sign Rendon and Cole

   1. For me, and I don’t expect others to agree or the organization, but…this sort of feels like the end of the line with this particular group. We’ve given it three really good go’s, and each time we came up short for largely the same reasons. Proceeding without some core changes, feels like we’d be banging our heads against the wall.

      I’m not talking sweeping changes, but we may need to take a step back to truly move forward. Personally, I’d move on from Hill and Ryu, who were great this year and we’d really miss their contributions. But they cost a ton of money and that money could be used on an elite pitcher like Cole or an elite RH bat like Betts or Rendon. I think this is the year to spend in free agency, because we don’t really have anyone in the pipeline that projects to be an elite pitcher or elite RH bat. Plus, Rendon or Betts bring 300 hitting capability who won’t strike out every other at bat. We just don’t have enough of those. Inserting May, Gonsolin, Urias into the starting rotation will probably be rough for awhile, but I think it’s the dose of bad tasting medicine we need.

8. Dodgers organization FO and Roberts have disrespected players such as Brian Wilson (who compared to Kelly was not as bad ), Adrian Gonzalez situation , AJ Ellis, Carl Crawford, Matt Kemp, Howie Kendrick that now took revenge , Puig and the list goes on. Instead Friedman and company have brought mediocre players like Josh Reddick, Forsythe, Kelly, Pollock , Barnes. Is time for Rich Hill , Freese to go.

   Another Twitter from Kevin Kennedy !

   Kevin Kennedy
   ‏

   @KevinKennedyMLB
   10h10 hours ago
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   I really don’t believe it myself.
   Getting 3 outs from Kelly last inning was much more than I expected. Honestly at this point not to have Kenley in a tie game at home especially after walk to Eaton, I’m blown away+do not agree nor understand Docs strategy!

   That is all on DOC

9. Donald Trump to Doc Roberts :: You are fired !!! I actually like Doc but he is too arrogant and dumb as a rock. Roberts is dumber than Barack Hussein Obama

   1. No politics! But, I agree.

   2. The idiots are out in force.

      1. Yep

      2. You should use that as your introduction every time you post. I like it!

         1. Only sometimes do I need to.

   3. Carlos, BHO seems smarter than you and I.

10. I am very sad this morning and still stunned and shocked at how the game ended last night. I so hoped and believed that this would be the year the Dodgers went all the way to win . I could barely watch the game after the 8th inning but did. I still love my Dodgers and always will, but last night’s loss was hard to take.

    1. You’re a better than me. Once Kershaw served up Soto…and I mean served up, that looked like he was pitching to him at the HR contest…I had to step away for 20 minutes. Interesting, that Kenta the one hot hand we truly had in the playoffs, aside from Bueller, mowed down the Nationals in order.

11. Well now it is time to perform that LAD autopsy. I wrote an article 2 years ago about AF being the best in MLB at building a 40 man roster and organization that is built for a grueling 162 game season, but lacks the clutch star power to win it all. As it turns out, I am still right about that. However, I was wrong when I thought Belli and Corey would some how clutch up, but they did not even come close. I was hoping that CK could show that he could come up big in a playoff game, even if as a reliever. I was wrong there as well. That is what happens when we fans get emotionally invested in players.

    Sure the bullpen was once again an eye-sore. I never thought that the starters moving to the pen all of sudden gave the Dodgers a good bullpen. If it were not for Kenta Maeda, the bullpen was MIA once again. This is becoming a never ending saga for AF teams. That is not nearly enough to even consider jettisoning arguably the top baseball executive, but he is going to have to think a little more aggressively when it comes to the bullpen.

    I mentioned it after Game 163 last year that the Ace torch was passed from CK to Buehler, and the only thing torched was me. Most thought that Clayton was still the Ace at that time. Buehler after all was only a rookie. At least that is what I was told. I love Clayton but it appeared to me, that Walker Buehler had shown that he can pitch in big games (Game 163), and continued to do so in the playoffs in Game 7 against Milwaukee and Game 3 in the WS. Both starts in the 2019 NLDS were exceptional. He has ice water running through his veins. If he gets tagged, it will not be because he choked. Make no mistake, Walker Buehler is now the Ace of the Dodgers. It is not even close. I hope Clayton finishes his HOF career with the Dodgers, but he can best be used as a #3.

    As bad as the bullpen was for me, it was not the bullpen that beat the Dodgers. It was the lack of clutch hitting, principally by my favorite Dodger player, Corey Seager. He had the chance to become a hero multiple times in Game 5 and send Strasburg to the showers down at least 5-0, but came up waaaay short. Anthony Rendon and Juan Soto came up BIG in the series. I have no doubt that Corey will spend the winter getting stronger rather than rehabbing after two major surgeries, but even if he puts up an MVP season, it will mean nothing if he goes 3-20 with no runs scored or RBIs in a playoff series again. The same is true for Cody. You cannot win if your stars do not come out to play.

    IMO, there needs to be a change in the direction of this franchise. AF has done his job at rebuilding the Farm and keeping the team relevant, but he lacks that elite set of shoulders for the team to jump on. Where would the ’88 Dodgers have been without Orel and that ONE AB by Kirk Gibson. I like grinders and junk yard dogs, but the Dodgers need that Bulldog. Would the ’77 and ’78 NYY won the WS without the “Straw that stirs the drink”, AKA Reggie Jackson? Cocky, arrogant, A-Hole? Most would say yes, but I like to call him 5 time WS winner from 72-78 (first three with Oakland). He may not be able to take a ton of credit for the 72-74 run, but he knew how to win, and when he got to NY, he carried those teams.

    Madison Bumgarner. Cocky, arrogant, A-Hole? Sure. But he carried the 2014 SF Giants to a WS victory and was a part of the 2010 and 2012 WS teams. His team’s record in playoff games he has pitched in is 13-3. His team has never lost in a WS game he pitched in (5). He even won the 2016 WC game and Game 3 of the 2016 NLDS.

    You do not have to like Reggie Jackson or MadBum to respect what they have meant to their teams. Apparently, that is not who Cody and Corey are. Max may be, but he is not that elite player that can carry the team. JT is getting a little long in the tooth. Joc is an incomplete player being restricted to batting against RHP. But all three would be good complimentary pieces to that one guy who can carry the team offensively.

    I think this team needs to throw caution to the wind and get out of their comfort zone and perhaps do a couple of dope-fiend moves. I am hopeful that they will pull out all the stops and make a great offer to Boston for Mookie Betts. Yes, I know it is only for one year, but as the July 30 2016 LA Time Sports Column stated: At trade deadline, Cubs ask ‘If not now, when?’ And the Dodgers? We Dodger fans are still asking that question. That trade for Chapman is not what has hurt the current state of the Cubs. It was the Jason Heyward FA contract, the Jose Quintana trade, the Yu Darvish FA contract, the Craig Kimbrel FA contract.

    Betts will be on a contract year, and maybe he can be that straw. He will be 27 for next season, and has a 6 year career slash line of .301/.374/.519/.893. He is going to cost both $$$ and prospects. His will be on his final arbitration year, and should surpass what Arenado signed for before he signed his monster extension…$26MM. He has already made it known that he will not sign an extension, and looks forward to the chase by MLB teams in FA frenzy. I am nowhere close to being comfortable hypothesizing a package that Boston would accept. But I know it will hurt.

    I would not stop at Betts. I would not be outbid by any team for Gerrit Cole. There will only be a handful of teams that will be in a position for him and the strongest bids should come from NYY, LAA, San Diego Padres, and maybe the Nats, especially if Stras opts out. I truly believe the Pads will go after him hard. If Cole finds his way to SD, I think that makes them a legit contender to the NL West. For LA, it only costs $$$ and a draft pick and if the billionaire boys do not want to play, then it is time for them to sell the team and go count their coupons. I want ownership that values winning even if it means a large luxury tax. How great would Mookie Betts look in a Dodger uni at the AS Game at Dodger Stadium next summer. Dope-fiend move? Perhaps. But if not now, when?

    But why stop there? I have been haranguing about this bullpen for the last several years. I would meet with KJ right now, and tell him that they will be looking for another closer. If KJ cannot accept that, then he should opt out. If he stays, he needs to accept a much less visible role. Probably more along the Andrew Miller role. I would be aggressive with Will Smith and Will Harris in FA, and I would even look to trade with Toronto for Ken Giles. He is at least worth a gamble. After all, all trades are gambles. Sometimes you win, sometimes you do not. If Giles performs as he can, that lifts the bullpen to a level that can win. If not? It’s not like we fans are not used to coming up short, but at least most of us would accept that there was effort to change. I would also immediately meet with Kenta Maeda and his agent and re-work his contract for him to accept a bullpen role. I might even make Brandon Morrow a hugely incentive laden offer (which he would likely not accept). Bottom line, rethink and restructure that bullpen…with proven relievers, not repackaged starters.

    I have no problem with Dave Roberts. Every manager makes mistakes, but he was not the one who hit into a DP and struck out 3 times with a chance to make a difference. He is not the HOF pitcher that served up two gopher balls to tie the score in the 8th. He is not the one who walked Adam Eaton on a 3-2 pitch, gave up a 2-strike ground rule double to Rendon, an intentional walk, all preceded by a zero out Grand Slam by a former Dodger. How do you win when your MVP cannot drive in one run in a five game series? Would Joe Maddon have won with this roster? We will never know. Is it the roster or the manager? It seems that question is asked every year. The roster is good, just not good enough. If the Dodgers do make a change it is possible that Dave Roberts will find his way to either SF or SD.

    Here’s a thought. Maybe tongue in cheek, maybe not. Perhaps the Dodgers need to look at the Michigan State University roster and see if any of them are also on the football squad. It worked with Steve Garvey and Kirk Gibson? I think Magic has the contacts to check into that. I have no problem with a football mentality on a baseball team. But ownership and/or AF needs to turn the page. They not only need new life, they need elite new life.

    1. I think I agree with every one of your points. Shoot, I never seriously considered Baumgardner in a Dodgers uniform, but those intangibles he brings are a little of what we could need. It doesn’t hurt he’s shown he elevates his game in the playoffs.

       Roberts, is a tricky one. Some of the decisions seem dumb in hindsight, but honestly I don’t think he was necessarily passing on more guaranteed alternatives. Soto, was looking more and more comfortable with Kolarek each time he faced him and I could see where Soto would have ripped on him as well. It’s still, probably, the better move Kolarek over Kershaw there, but I could see where it ends in a similar result and Roberts is still being second guessed. You want the manager to put guys in the best position to succeed, but in the end it’s on the players.

       I don’t know about farming the MSU football team, but I like the more general point about targeting more athletic players. Like raw stud athletes who could play for the MSU football team if they had wanted to. At least another guy or two who can fly like Bellinger. That speed is worth something on defense, the base paths, extra base hits, beating out grounders. Little things that this team isn’t elite at. That might take a organizational paradigm change because we seem all about the homers for the moment.

       I’m glad you’re a Seager fan, because I need to hear an opposing argument why we should stick it with him. The easiest solution is for him to work out, but he looked absolutely hopeless against breaking pitches this year. Like the old prospect story, who could terrorize fastballs and pitcher mistakes but could never break the minors because he couldn’t hit the curveball. He’s not really that young anymore and he should be at stage of development where his eye is better and he has better pitch selection. I’d start with him in any offer for Betts and hope the Red Sox don’t laugh. He is cheap for the moment.

       Bellinger is taking some heat, and deservedly so, but I still consider him untouchable. If a young guy keeps making annual improvements, but I ride him out especially if he’s a five tool player. Even though he didn’t do much in the power department, he still find ways to contribute in game 5 with his speed and glove. If the improvements dry up and he’s a guy who ultimately will hit 40 homers a year, bat .275, play elite defense and absolutely stink against elite pitching, that’s still great value imo.

       What to do with Pollock? That was embarrassing. Worse than Seager. I think part of the problem with guys like Pollock and Seager, Kike, Taylor to an extent is they’re rhythm hitters. Personally, I don’t think it’s worth the long dry spells they’ll go through before they serve you gold. That was a Daryl Strawberry problem as well – on field problem that is. One or two can be worked around, but we got too many at the moment.

       Bellinger may end up winning the MVP, but Max Muncy is my team MVP. There was questions as to whether he could repeat his 2017 break out performance and I think he out-did himself this year. He’s got moxie and can clutch perform. Don’t know what his future is with the club, but I think he deserves a shout out for this year.

    2. AC. In your opinion what causes a player to not execute over several times at bat in a playoff series? Is is lack of focus, nerves or loss of confidence? Feel sorry for the team and all the fans.

       1. IMO, it is more a lack of discipline and then pressing. At the beginning of the year, Cody started to hit better when he took a bit off his swing with 2 strikes and went the other way quite often. As the year progressed he started to go back to that swing for the fence with every swing. In the playoffs against good pitching that was exposed. He never adjusted. That is a lack of discipline that was exasperated through pressing. Corey looked lost. One AB he was aggressive on the first pitch, and then he would watch 2 go by on the next AB. He never had a plan. He never looked comfortable, and as the ABs got worse, he tightened even more. With Pollock, I have no idea what happened there. I cannot explain 11 Ks in 13 ABs. There are no excuses for it. I have always like Juan Soto, but learning that he widened his stance with two strikes to cut down his swing and help with his plate coverage is something that might be emulated by others. While it may limit his launch angle, he still has the ability and strength to drive the ball.

          I do not know if Cody or Corey can get over this playoff malaise. Kershaw never did.

          1. Thanks AC.

    3. Mookie Betts intrigues me. I have always been partial to lead off hitters with speed.

       As to Michigan State players – – Mitchell Tyranski is on the way. Might take 2 years before we see him though.

    4. AC, I definitely agree with you on the need to add some elite talent. That is usually what makes the difference in the playoffs, you cannot just get by with hard-working .250 hitters, not unless you have a devastating starting and relief staff, which we do not. I don’t know about Betts, because I would hate to trade for a one-year player. How about trying to sign him as a FA after next year, rather than letting him go to the Yankees or Astros or Braves. e.g?. If we never sign one of these types, not only will we not have them, but other teams will. It’s a closed system, and opting out just lets the other teams obtain the elite players.

       I think that our window may have closed, with Kershaw’s and Jansen’s decline, and Turner’s increasing injuries. Maybe we should take a year to rebuild the team into a better unit. I wonder how excited fans will be to see Seager hit a double to win an early season game with the Rockies, or even some Bellinger home runs, when they realize it means nothing in the postseason. Maybe time to take some gambles, give away a precious prospect or two, or a regular player, to try to get someone better. The problem here is that Friedman has shown virtually nothing to inspire confidence that he can make a very favorable trade for higher-end players than the minor leaguers he shuffles around. It doesn’t mean he can’t do it, but maybe some eye test, and analysis of the intangibles of players might be added to the metrics?

12. I could not believe it when TBS returned from the commercial break to see Joe Kelly on the mound for a second inning of work. I just knew the game was over at that moment. I posted last night and mentioned I was surprised Ryu wasn’t mentioned at all about going one inning. At least a good one inning performance through the heart of the Nats line-up extends the game and gets your team a chance in a walk-off in the tenth inning. Even May, Baez or Stripling but please no Joe Kelly.

    So many unanswered questions:

    1. Will AF be back?
    2. Will AF stay with Roberts as the manager?
    3. Does CK and Seager remain Dodgers or are they traded.
    4. Does KJ opt out (we could only hope for the $$ savings this would provide).
    5. Will the Dodgers be aggressive in FA signings.
    6. Does Ryu come back?
    7. Does Hill come back?
    8. Does Honeycutt come back?
    9. Does Geren stay as the bench coach?

    I think it’s time to do a “blow-up.” Trade Seager for pieces and give Lux the SS job. Hope for KJ to opt out and I think it might be time to see if we can get the Rangers to take CK. Trade AJ Pollock for two dozen baseballs and go go big and acquire Cole and Rendon. Oh yea, one more thing…………let Doc have the Padres managerial job!

    1. I said it yesterday before the game to trade Seager and Urias and others but MT and company said that i was drinking early when i dont drink at all ………… is just common sense seeing their awful Postseason performances ! I like Doc and liked him as a player and was excited to have an ex dodger player as Manager but he has had his chances and has been almost Donnie Baseball all over again ! Time for change !! Padres job is open Doc would fit right there close to home !!

       1. If SD wants Doc, I would guess that the Dodger brass would give them permission to talk to him.

          1. I think now they would drive and scort him to the interview in SD !!!

             1. I freaking drive him and buy him a “grad slam” breakfast at Denny’s on the way there just to remind him why he’s going to SD. he certainly can’t drive himself.

          2. Send him back!

13. Unless a player or two had a career season, a different manager with the same players is pretty much the same manager.
    How many managers have the dodgers had since the fluke 88 championship?
    Special players created these so called genius managers and coaches, not the other way around.
    Some have lifetime job opportunities because of it….ie joe torre, just to name one!

14. Critics are a joke to me. Second guessers always know better. Actually they are just miserable critics who come to the battlefield after the battle and shoot the wounded. Oh what a difference a day can make!

15. Three days ago I was called an idiot because I questioned where do we go from here with Kersh.

16. McCullough sounds it up well at The Athletic:

    Roberts appeared to act through feel rather than logic, through emotion rather than analytics. He trusted Kershaw in a moment when he should not have. He allowed a sterling ninth inning from Kelly to cloud his judgment for the 10th. He let the fear of having Maeda face Washington slugger Soto place a wrench inside his planning. He seemed to have lost all faith in Jansen, the erstwhile closer, who did not pitch until the outcome had been decided.

    Not since Gerry Mac left Buckner in for no reason but emotion have we seen such poor decision making.

    I can’t see how Roberts can return. That said, Maddon was pretty wretched this year. Why him?

    I have no real interest in Betts for a single year, and worry about Cole already past thirty. Rendon however would be an interesting fit.

17. Yeah Nats are inferior. But they have a game Friday night. bwa hashaha

18. Oh shit, is this really the “Trade Seager” off-season? I remember that Beltre couldn’t hit a slider until he could. Maybe he isn’t “the guy”, but he is a very good offensive shortstop. Hell, he’s a good defensive shortstop. He missed a whole year and was still pretty damn good this year. Seager and Belli only have 3 years in league and they both came up very young. Springer, Altuve, Rendon and Betts were all much older when they broke through and were ready to lead in the post-season. As a matter of fact, they were all around Muncy’s age.

    Doc is the biggest change we need to make. It was criminal to put Kershaw in that spot. Kershaw has blown more post-seasons than probably anyone in the history of post-season baseball and we’re talking about getting rid of Seager. Doc, AF and Kershaw’s finger prints are all over this failure, much more so than Seager.

    Doc is uncanny at making moves that everyone thinks are wrong. Kike batting 3rd last year? Benching Kemp all last offseason? Pulling Rich Hill too early, going back to the well too often with Morrow, keeping Clayton in too long.
    AF has NOT made a deal to put us over the top. We are the Dodgers, not the A’s, not the Rays. You don’t have to win every deal. You need to win a Championship even if you need to overpay from time to time.
    Kershaw is a forth or fifth starter now. He is not a shut down guy. He is NOT an Ace.

    I’ll say it again. The biggest mistake they made was not getting Urias built up as a starter at the end of the season. They went with their hearts instead of their heads by putting Hill on the roster.

    They have too many left handed bats. Mark’s right, Castellanos would have been huge. Same Abreu. Friedman did NOT do his job at the deadline.

    Stan Kasten is turning us into the Braves.

    1. For sure, Doc should be shown the door. He’s got plenty of money to show for his pain so I wouldn’t feel sorry for that guy. So many of the posters are now against Doc. Where the hell were you all the last couple of years? Couldn’t you see how he interfered with the flow of this team? Great baseball minds, huh?

       The Dodgers need a mini-blowup. Yes, you heard it here. I actually agreed with several of Mark’s comments and at last, he has stopped defending the team at large. This doesn’t mean we do stupid things like go out and pay $300M for a player. You don’t have to use that model to secure talent. Freidman has relied on cleverness, thus far. He’s been lucky but think back to all the bad trades and acquisitions he’s made. Even so, the guy knows how to run a team, but he doesn’t know how to work the FA market. This is where a great GM steps in. Let Freidman run the rest of it. He’s good but needs help.

       Why not do some dope fiend moves? Not on the level of the Harper/Machado charade. Both players are not worth that much money, period! Seager is not the player most of us thought he would be. Neither was Barnes. We should explore some trade scenarios with him. Bellinger is still a beast and I would not trade him. Muncy was our MVP in this series. He’s too cheap to trade! Pollock should be a goner as well as the lovable Martin, along with Kelly.

       Another huge question is the trio of Joc, Kike, & Taylor. Joc and Kike were pretty clutch in this series. Taylor is not the player most hoped he would be. He’s a good utility man and so is Kike, but we need complete players, those who either do not slump heavily, can hit both LHP/RHP, and although Joc has grown on me, I’d like a real leadoff hitter. This team needs a true talent identifier. They used to be called scouts. Some people excel at this job, some are bluffing their way through. There will always be mistakes, but without taking chances, nothing will change and we will be back here next year with similar problems.

       Pitching? Move CK and his salary. Move Jansen, Kelly, Stripling, Alex.., Floro. Keep Maeda in the BP. Keep Urias in the BP. Keep Baez as he’s not so bad ( I really don’t like him or trust him, but he’s produced more than many of the others). I agree with Mark, get Cole and start Buehler, May, and Gonsolin. Urias only in a pinch. Maybe try to resign Ryu at a decent price. Say no to Rich Hill. No more walking wounded. Sorry, you’re already a millionaire and don’t feel sorry for you.

       There’s plenty more but I’ve said enough. I want to see some real changes in the Dodgers when we start ST. Let’s stop the bullshit spins, kissing ass, and not thinking for yourselves. Is it possible? I doubt it, but what the heck………….I’ll say it anyway.

19. No, Meddon no, he is no a good manager either.

20. I missed it apparently. What’s all the talk about Dic not knowing how to drive and being in an accident. Something happen?

    1. He almost ran me over with his golf cart in Spring Training this year. He was bullshitting instead of looking where he was driving.

21. Careful what you wish for in those mega$ long term contracts to players in their 30’s. Very few have worked out and it can ruin a decade even with the best player in the game. See Anaheim Angels

    1. Spot on!

    2. Yes, although given the lack of a ready replacement for Turner Rendon is quite alluring

22. Lindbergh on Roberts:

    https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/mlb/2019/10/10/20908043/dave-roberts-los-angeles-dodgers-washington-nationals-game-5-defeat

    1. This comment comes from the article that Bluto referenced in a previous post “In his postgame presser, Roberts gave angry fans more rhetorical ammunition. “I feel that my job is to put guys in the best position to have success,”
       What is really funny to me is that I said almost the same thing a couple of days ago and Bluto, MT and 2Demiter2 (in a later article) jumped all over me for making such a “nonsensical” comment. Here is the original post:

       Campy
       October 5, 2019 at 3:24 pm
       The managers job is to put players in a position where they have the best chance to succeed. Sometimes doc doesn’t seem to do that
       1. Bluto
       October 5, 2019 at 3:48 pm
       Kershaw was fine. The loss isn’t on him.
       Zero point ZERO percent of that loss is on Roberts.
       Campy’s post is nonsense. Roberts put everyone in a position to succeed. The players didn’t come through. Seager. Belli. Lux. Pollock. Joc.
       1. Cassidy
       October 5, 2019 at 4:08 pm
       Hey JOC has a homer and a double in 5 ab.’a. He’s not the problem
       1. Bluto
       October 5, 2019 at 5:32 pm
       Fair, but the point is that it’s up to the players to produce. Not Roberts to magically “put them in a position to succeed.”
       2. Mark Timmons
       October 5, 2019 at 6:04 pm
       Tell me how he didn’t do that.

       I think that the pitching decision in the late innings last night shows how Roberts “didn’t do that” and many on here seem to agree.

       1. I would say Roberts’s bullpen moves put every pitcher in a position to fail.

          That was not the case with the batters you were citing

          I can expand on this if you need.

23. Glad ownership and management are not as reactionary as our fanbase. There are some terrible idea being bandied about on here.

    Starting with Maddon. No way!!

24. Freidman has too much power. They need real accountability and a sharing of different talents. Guggenheim is a big question mark for me? How much has he handcuffed this team by not wanting to spend? AF is a terrific penny pincher. We have yet to see what the team could look like with some major FA moves that bring in players that are not wounded or recovering from surgery. That recipe needs to be changed, quick.

    1. Why

25. Wow, Joe Maddon. No way in hell! If he’s so wonderful, why did the Cubs part ways with him. Lots of clubhouse issues, maybe. Morale issues? Dave Roberts is fine and so is Friedman.

    Whether people want to admit it or not, the bullpen was suspect, obviously inconsistent. There was no Brandon Morrow. Those guys are hard to find and if you find them they may not last long.

    Pitchers melt down. Just look at Josh Hader. Sending Joe Kelly out for a second inning shows Roberts had no faith in Kenley Jansen. That would have never happened in the past.

    So where to from here? Deep breath, step back and carefully analyze what worked and what didn’t. Try to figure out how to create a more consistent bullpen, not an easy thing. But no one should panic and do something dumb like getting rid of Roberts. How many managers have had that kind of success over that period of time? What, you didn’t win a World Series? Well, players need to produce. Washington was a very hot team with a great second half record. They had two hard throwing formidable pitchers at the top of the rotation. Even with that, the Dodgers would have won with a lock down bullpen, but they didn’t have one. The 2017 team would have won. Cory Seager, one of the keys to the Dodgers future struck out in key situations with runners in scoring position. Too many hitters failed in key moments. Why did the 1988 team win? Clutch performances. They certainly weren’t better than the Mets or A’s, but they produced.

    Looking ahead, the Dodgers need to create a better pen, and they need to seriously consider making a run at Gerrit Cole. I know the money makes some of you nervous, but why should that even be a concern? The Dodgers are making huge profits, payroll is dropping significantly and what else are they going to do with it? It’s not like the Dodgers are going to lower the cost of tickets. Even with a big free agent signing, they’re still well below the luxury tax threshold. Friedman has said that 2020 is the year for that kind of pursuit. Said it several times last year. As to the Dodgers not spending that kind of money, they offered Zack Greinke close to $160 million to stay.

    The Dodgers could use a big right handed bat, but I have no idea how that would work. The line-up seems pretty well set. But if it’s a game changer, they have to take a serious look. May be available in trade.

    What about Cole? He could be the difference maker they’re looking for or his arm could fall off in spring training. That’s why you have insurance. Maybe the Rays get to him in game five and that gives you pause. But should it? He’s really thrown well and he’s from LA,.

26. I think Doc is a good man, a good example to our players. I also think he is really good at managing the clubhouse and gaining the players confidence (not sure about KJ after last night). However, in the face of criticism the common defense of Dos is “look at his record”. He does have a good record, but I think that he has had a great team to work with and that covers up some of his deficiencies. How much better should our record have been, especially in the post season where bad decisions are magnified.

27. In retrospect, Kershaw was a dumb move, but it was also inevitable. Did anyone notice the broadcast cutting to the bullpen and showing Kershaw pacing around, throwing weighted balls against a wall and otherwise acting like a snorting bull? It was setting the stage for drama filled historical matchup with the potentially future HOF coming in at the decisive moment.

    I’m fond of using the example of the Malcolm Gladwell book, the Tipping Point. In particularly I like the kouros statue example, which illustrates the difference between the human ability to gain remarkable insight through intuition and experience, and reliance on observable data and scientific analysis. Human intuition often sees things that that scientific analysis can’t You can apply this to baseball and the sometimes conflicting relationship between a manager’s experience and intuition – what his eyeballs tell him – and what the data and heat maps tell him what is HISTORICALLY more likely to happen. Last year, Robert’s eyeballs should have told him that Hill was cruising, everything was clicking, he was still sharp, and could’ve probably gone through the order again. He went with The Formula. Third time through order for starting pitcher = Bad.

    In this case with CK, it was worse. Instead of using his experience and judgement and eyeballs, or at least let the data guide him or go with with a plan, he made that decision based on his heart. “CK has been our heart and soul, our Ace, for more than a decade. This is his moment.” Dumb. Actually, for this reason, I think 59’s suggestion to go get Scioscia is dumb. I don’t care if he’s a former Dodger. He was blatantly insubordinate with the Angels FO, is totally old school and rejects data, and would be constantly butting heads with the organization. He’d be like Bobby Valentine. …disaster.

    I think a lot of the dumb moves by Roberts last night hinge, in part, on the lack of confidence in Kenley. It reverberated in the CK move as well as Kelly going that second inning. The single most important three outs of that entire game last night was the 8th and the heart of the Nats order. That was a situation tailor made for an alternative usage of your lockdown closer. If Kenley was still that guy, I would have put him in to face Rendon and Soto. If you get through that inning with a two run lead with Zimmerman, Gomes and Taylor due up in the 9th, you’re almost home free.

    If the manager has so little confidence in your closer that he doesn’t eve make it into a game 5, it’s time to rethink your closer. He won’t opt out. The Dodger are just going to have to figure out what the options are in FA or internally and let Kenley take a complementary role. The problem is, there’s just a shortage of lockdown relievers. AC mentioned Giles and Smith. I don’t think those guys are much better, and AC was lukewarm on Giles just because he melted in that role with the Astros.

    The Dodgers have money coming off the books. Yes, they can go after a FA. Financially I think the strategy should be to plan our contracts to just make sure you can get the team under the line every few years or so to avoid the steep penalty, but give yourself the latitude to go over it when it resets. I honestly don’t know who they should get. I actually feel a little like the window has started to close. Yeah, we have a good farm, but the guys coming up aren’t necessarily going to be stars to carry the team. It was hoped that Cody and Seager would be the nucleus, but now none of us are sure of that.

28. This will be a very long post, feel free to skim it! But I have a lot to say after a very long and at some times very rewarding, but ultimately very disappointing and frustrating season. First, I have appreciated this site, with intelligent people usually making their comments in a polite fashion. It has allowed me to vent a bit, as well.

    The theme of much of what I have written at length about is my very real sense that the Dodgers ownership is much more concerned about maximizing profits than winning championships. I point back to the letter that the LAT and Bill Shaikin unearthed where the owners promised prospective new investors that they would not go more than minimally over the luxury tax threshold for the next five years. They denied it then, but I’m sure it’s true. I think that is appalling. No one expects the Dodgers to carry $300 million in payroll, but they make tons of money, and the fans are so loyal, and we deserve much more than we get. The only major free agent they ever signed was Greinke, and that was clearly to cement the much desired TV deal with Time Warner. Since then, they have shed payroll, raised ticket prices each year. They have signed no major free agents, nor have they made blockbuster trades.

    To me, it is has seemed that every decision is based on “payroll prudence.” No Scherzer, no Verlander, no Stanton, no Yelich, no Goldschmidt, no Harper. Did I want all of these? No, but I totally agree with AC in that we need a couple more big stars, those rare players who can galvanize a team, who often come up big in the playoffs. Oh, and please note that Shaikin interviewed a minority Dodgers owner a few year ago who said that he was impatiently waiting for the payroll to get to the middle of the pack. That is disgraceful to me, but it may be the mindset.

    We would actually be much better off if we had one very wealthy owner who wanted to win, and who was willing to occasionally not make big profits in a season, for the glory and joy of a title. But we have a bunch of owners, we just added two this year. These are corporate investors, and they value profits over all. In fact, the major ownership virtually has to guarantee them profits to get them to sign on. So there is almost no hope, as far as I see it, that suddenly we will start spending big again for free agents. And the reality is that in today’s baseball world, you almost have to supplement your homegrown players with a couple of high-level free agents or trade pieces. If you don’t want to do that, you shouldn’t be in the game, not if you want to win titles rather than pile up money.

    The Dodgers have deliberately removed themselves from a key part of building championship teams. They have done very well without it, but obviously not well enough. Kasten did virtually the same thing in Atlanta, great regular season teams, almost no titles until they finally got so much heat that they signed Greg Maddox, so they got one title. Kasten came in here with the promise to the Guggenheim Group that he could win with controlled payroll. Friedman was brought in to play a version of “Moneyball” with a franchise which is not the A’s, but is in the second major market in the country, with the largest consistent fan base. I never liked this group when it bought the team; and while they are certainly far better than the grifter McCourt, they are not what we need. If they sold the Dodgers tomorrow, I would welcome the chance to maybe get the right kind of owner here. But they may be here for thirty years or more, they own a cash machine, and that is what most of their shareholders from different parts of the country see it as, not how the devoted and passionate fans see it.

    That is a tragedy, at least in the sports realm, and it bothers me greatly. It also seems to connote to me that things are not suddenly going to get much better, that we are going to just see variations of the same theme going forward. The saving grace of being a sports fan is the excitement and hope fo the next seasons. I had that as a boy when I followed the O’Malley Dodgers. Not because O’Malley wasn’t also rather cheap, but because he still had the Branch Rickey people like Bavasi and Campanis, and you knew that they were going to make some trades, find some players who could help win titles. I loved the offseason because of that. Now I know that it will consist mostly of minor league trades, and then watching other franchises make the big splashes by paying for the few elite players out there.

    I will just leave that subject out there to consider. Going into this season, the bullpen should have been “fixed” or at least improved, in the offseason. It was not that effective last year, not in the World Series. Jansen was a real question mark. They got Kelly, who really had only had one big year, the last one. Then they just sent the barely patched up bullpen out there. In the midseason, they only picked up one short-stint reliever in Kolarek, a good addition, but not enough. They also needed another starter when Hill looked to be out or badly hampered for the rest of the season. Mostly, they just sat there and did nothing. To me, that reflects arrogance and cheapness. Now, yes, we could have won last night and then we would be in the NLCS, and maybe have a chance to get away with it, though I never thought we would beat the Astros and Yankees. But surely we can see that when you enter the playoffs with only three legitimate starters, and a very iffy bullpen, it is going to catch up with you. Note that the bullpen gave up 11 runs in the last two playoff games.

    Watching last night, one felt very comfortable as long as Buehler was out there. Once he was taken out, we saw the horror show of Roberts grasping at bullpen pieces, much as we had seen in other games this year. We only had one reliable relief pitcher, Maeda. Urias, but had Roberts overused him in the earlier games? Kelly is mostly a dud. Jansen was on the roster, pitched one strong inning in the playoffs, and Roberts did not trust him enough to use him last night. So he somehow goes to Kershaw, who is not a reliever, who does not pitch well in early innings, who gives up home runs

    Look at the Yankees, or Cardinals or Rays, they have a staff of relievers who all look pretty good to me. Why do the Dodgers not have that? That is one of the cornerstones to winning a title. You don’t just go into the season with a haphazard bullpen, and then hope that it will all work out in the playoffs. How many key playoff games have we lost in the last several years because of the bullpen? Plenty. Spend enough and be discerning enough to put together an strong bullpen, and we might have won three titles. But we don’t do that, too much money, too many contracts which are not cost controlled. We just back and fill, hold onto Baez for years, pick up guys like Hatcher or Johnson or Kelly who are either wild or give up plenty of homeruns. We have no legitimate closer. How do you go into a season without a reliable closer? ? And we don’t have one for next year, either, nor a reliable setup man.

    We also need a great bat in the lineup, to at least take the pressure off Belllinger and Seager in the playoffs. Goldschmidt would have been that. JD Martinez a couple of years ago. Nope, too pricey. We cannot have any confidence that Bellinger is going to come up big in playoffs, this is two seasons where he has not done the job, despite how much we admire his abilities. Seager had a terrible playoff, 3 for 20, and was a strikeout machine. You cannot score runs if you do not hit the ball. It was embarrassing to watch Bellinger and Seager and Pollock wave at the same pitches time after time. Maybe one big bat in the middle of the lineup would help a great deal. But who is that? And how do we get him with our luxury tax obsession, and paying Kershaw $30 million to be a #4 starter?

    And it is fascinating to note that the way the Dodgers do it, relying on young players and reclamations, they have almost no trade pieces. Who on the 25-man roster would anyone give up major talent for in a trade? Buehler and Bellinger, whom we would never trade. Otherwise, we can’t even put together a big trade, unless we traded a bunch of top prospects, and even then those trades usually occur at the deadline, because teams are not going to sell season tickets and create interest if they trade their best players for prospects during the offseason. So we are truly stuck, unless we go after free agents. And how many great free agents are there each year? Maybe one or at most two, and they get tremendous bidding, and we bow out. And if we actually take a chance sometime again, we had better be darn sure that we got someone whose past history makes it very likely that they will be worth it. Note that the Yankees are wiling to gamble in that way, even if they occasionally get a Stanton who might have been a mistake. But they got Chapman and LeMahieu and earlier Sabathia, and then spent a lot for Tanaka out of Japan. Houston got Verlander, traded for Cole, got Miley, recently Greinke. Not all free agents, but big acquisitions. And of course Washington got Scherzer, and St. Louis got Goldschmidt. All these teams are still battling for the title.

    As to Roberts, I agree that he is not at all a good game manager, not in big games against top teams. He has no feel for handling the bullpen, not the way that a master like Bochy did. Roberts sticks to his gameplan and does not react quickly when one of his relievers shows dangerous signs of not being “on.” I have no idea why he decided that he wanted to use Kershaw last night, but he telegraphed it a day earlier. Then he left him in after the first home run, which was ludicrous. Roberts has been a major factor in us being eliminated in the playoffs in the last three seasons.

    That said, I doubt that there is someone out there who would make that much of a difference, with the teams the ownership and FO gives him. I would imagine that the players like him, and that is worth something. Now, if we could get a more astute manager and give him enough pieces, that would be ideal. If we are going to send a similar roster out there next year, Roberts probably is as good to manage them as anyone else–unless we could unearth a great managerial prospect. I am tired of Roberts, and his always-positive attitude after games, and his inability to strategize in a game. I would not be upset if he were fired, but I would not expect that it would do much to help us win titles–not without the talent upgrades we need. But at this point i am so upset, that I’d just as soon see him fired, just because he did such a terrible job in the biggest game of the year, and then stood up on the postgame show and said how very confident he was in Kershaw and Kelly. I felt very bad for Kershaw, who took all the blame. He did a bad job, but Roberts put him out there when he should not have.

    Now, to Friedman and the Front Office. I think that AF is a smart guy, and has done very well in unearthing under-the-radar players such as Muncy and Taylor. I don’t know how many constraints the ownership places him under as far as spending, or bidding for free agents. His forays into the FA market have not been impressive. Pollock and Kelly, not good. I remember Kazmir. There may have been others. Hill was a good trade pickup, though he is always hurt. Other than that, I can’t remember much that he has picked up in trades. Grandal is not a good catcher. Wood had one big year. Most of the relievers he has picked up in trades, like Jim Johnson, Avilan, Cigrani, Hatcher, were busts, or were injured. Morrow was a great find, but they let him leave after a big year, and now he is hurt again. Kendrick was a pretty good trade (Gordon for Heaney for Kendrick), but he tailed off and they let him go, and now he hits a grand slam against us for the series win. So I think that there are better potential GMs than Friedman, but again, how do we identify them, and get them? I do not want Josh Byrnes to be GM! But we are likely to get him if AF leaves. I liked having Anthropolous around for help, but that was a luxury. And frankly, would a great GM want to come here with the obvious payroll constraints, plus having to pay Kershaw and to a lesser extent Pollock and Kelly for the next couple of years?

    So what can the ownership do to at least somewhat redeem the faithfulness of the Dodgers fans? Because with the NBA teams, and the Rams, there are those who will tire of spending the long baseball seasons rooting for a team which wins a lot of mostly meaningless games, only to bow out in the playoffs. Get Cole, I guess, though we would be buying high. We don’t have a legitimate #2 starter,and you can’t ever expect to win a title without one. Somehow get a major bat for the middle of the lineup, and rely less on prospects who have failed on the playoff stages. Just hoping that they will somehow do great things in the next playoffs is much too optimistic. Make sure that Buehler is signed for many years, he is the cornerstone of the franchise.

    We have to add players to deal with the fact that Turner, because of consistent injuries, is on a downward trajectory as far as season contributions. We need a strong four-man rotation. We need a much better bullpen and we certainly need a high-end closer. That is a lot. We do have some fine young prospects, but so do some other franchises. I would guess that St. Louis and Atlanta will be better than us next year, not to mention the Yankees and Astros in the AL. If we want to win a title, we have to go into the season with a better roster than they do. The best roster does not always win the title, but it is much more likely than imagining that a team with significant holes in the bullpen and the starting staff, plus a lineup which has two years in a row been made to look inept in the playoffs by strong pitching, is going to somehow break through and do what it has not yet done. Bottom line: make major changes, spend more money, or we are not even going to be as good next year, much less better.

    1. Or not.

    2. Good read.

       Personally, I was against a lot the major acquisition proposals over the last few years because I was reluctant to give up prospects. The need for an elite 2nd starter and stud hitters has been evident for a few years, since Grienke and Gonzalez left and Turner became injury prone. You correctly point out that the free agent market doesn’t typically offer a lot of options on these fronts. I figured our best shot was developing one. Maybe one of Urias, May, Gonsolin can develop into a legit number two. Maybe Bellinger, Verdugo, Lux, or Ruiz can develop into stud hitters. Those were the names most often mentioned in the trade rumors. I’m still not sure I how I feel about it in retrospect, as the possibility is still there for those guys to develop.

       I think we may need to take a step back to move forward again. Ride some losses trying to develop those three pitchers. Ride some losses trying develop Lux and Ruiz. I like the idea of spending money on Cole or Rendon, or trading for Betts, but it’s likely just one and we’ll have to shed some guys to free up money for them. I could see us being down for 2 seasons, before coming back better and stronger.

       On the Guggenheim front, they sound like bad owners (from a fan prospective) putting dollars over winning. But they still green lit Friedman to make an offer at Harper and sign Kelly and Pollock and sign Kershaw for 30 million. Maybe they thought Kershaw would draw that amount in ticket sales and merchandise, but there’s no way the team could view Kershaw much more than a 3rd starter. He performed at a 3rd starter level last year, it wasn’t going to improve. So, maybe they’ll allow Friedman to spend again.

29. Molly Knight nails it in The Athletic:

    There’s a huge misconception that Dave Roberts is some sort of analytics puppet. But his late-inning playoff blunders have nothing to do with analytics. They’re all gut. Which is terrifying.

    Which is why Freidman should fire him.

    The Article:

    https://theathletic.com/1282637/2019/10/10/no-dodger-fans-you-did-not-deserve-to-have-the-season-end-this-way/?source=dailyemail

    1. Just read it. She certainly did nail it.

       1. Nailed it

30. What a huge disappointment last night. Roberts needs to go. He’s a great den mother with the players, but is an absolute failure when it comes to field management.

    With Kershaw Roberts gets a strikeout to end the seventh. Awesome. It’s been a pattern recently for Kershaw to give up home runs in the first or second inning. I know that, Roberts knows that, the whole world knows that. The eighth inning was Kershaw’s first inning. And, right on cue he allows two home runs. Kershaw did his job in the seventh. Roberts refused to use our “locked and loaded bullpen”. If not now, then when?

    I was alarmed to see Kelly out there in the ninth, but he came through with a shutdown inning. And, I too was shocked when he was standing on the mound in the tenth. WHAT???
    Again, the bullpen was locked and loaded for this game. Well rested and all hands on deck. What the hell was Roberts thinking? Obviously, he wasn’t. Roberts says he had a good feeling with Kelly in there. Well, he had to be the only one. You have 8-9 other guys available and you stay with Kelly, the most unpredictable pitcher on the team. To get one outstanding inning from him was a gift and Roberts sends him out again expecting the same thing. And, then leaves him in after watching him hit the first batter in the eighth. That should have been it for Kelly. But no. Let’s all watch him self destruct and give up a grand slam. What the hell??? I repeat. Roberts needs to be replaced by a manger who can manage a game on the field. Who is that person? I have no idea. All the good ones are probably currently employed.

    As far as are best hitters goes what a gigantic failure on their part. Hats off to Max Muncy for actually performing like he did during the season. With Pollock, how does what he did happen? He was hitting well to close out the season and to put on the performance he did in this series is just “there’s just no word for it” I’ll just use the word pathetic. To strike out 11 times in 13 ABs is beyond Cody Bellinger 2017 WS which I thought was impossible to duplicate. Cory proved to be another can’t hit good pitching. I’m sitting on my couch calling out pitches made to Cory when he had two strikes. Curve balls down and usually in and fastballs high and away. No home runs or RBIs. And, finally Mr. MVP. I’ve always been critical of Cody’s desire to hit the living crap out of every pitch he swings at. Why is that necessary? His swing can be successful with fair to poor pitchers as do most good hitters. But, when it comes to top line pitchers his swing cannot hold up. Never does, never will. Throw him a 94+ fastball between his belt and letters he can’t catch up to hit the ball. Best he can do is foul the ball off or hit popups. With left handed pitchers just give him a slider or curve ball that ends two feet outside and he’ll stick his butt into the first base dugout and make a feeble swing. How does someone so athletic take such bad swings? But, I have to acknowledge he did make huge strides in hitting left handers and cutting down strikeouts this year. But, when you are a MVP candidate expectations are high in the playoffs. Again, no home runs and RBIs. Some people are calling for trading Cory and/or Cody. I think that is absurd and a overreaction. Even with their failures in the playoffs who are we going to replace them with? You do have to win during the season in order to get into the playoffs.

    So, for 2020:
    Fire Roberts
    Resign Ryu for ONE year.
    Spend whatever it takes to land Gerrit Cole. We need another ace to go with Buehler. We’ll have approx $90MM to spend in 2020. I know most of that will be used to resign current roster. The value of the team is now between 3.5B-4B. That’s a nice return for ownership since they bought the team. Now, spend what it takes to get a championship. The owners have made theirs. The fans deserve an all out attempt to have the best team in the world. Mistakes will be made in free agent signings (Kelly, Pollack) but you have to try.
    Trade Kershaw to Texas. He’s no more than a 3-4 pitcher and a proven failure in the playoffs. He’s not going to get better. His results over a large sample are his results. Cole or Kershaw? No brainer.
    Tell Kenley he is no longer the closer and hopefully he opts out and moves on.
    Trade from 40 man and farm to get more bullpen depth and backup for Turner. Or have Beaty spend the winter learning to play third base. Might be a stretch, but it would be nice to find a spot for him as a fill in for Turner.
    Rotation:
    Ryu
    Buehler
    Cole
    Urias
    May
    Gossolin in bullpen (possible closer?)

    1. It would be nice to have the Rangers take CK’s remaining contract but they would never spend that kind of money just to bring him home and be a less-than-great pitcher. And I don’t see any way that we would pay part of that contract just to move him.
       It would also be nice to sign Ryu for one year but he shouldn’t have any trouble getting three years from someone so I’m afraid that, as much as he loves it here, a one-year deal isn’t in the cards. So, assuming we would sign Ryu to a multi-year contract, I like your rotation.
       Don’t see them putting Gonsolin in as the closer right off the bat, but he could be a future closer.
       Wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Maeda used in the closer’s role, at least to see how he does there. Re-work his contract so that it’s more fair if he’s in the bullpen, and see how it all plays out. Meanwhile Gonsolin can get experience as the 7th or 8th inning guy.

       1. I’ll have to second that. I listen to a lot of Dallas radio and the fans were clamoring for Kershaw at one point, but I think that’s passed. They’re excited about prospects now and their new stadium. The stadium alone is going to up sales, probably more than trading for Kershaw. It just doesn’t make sense from the Ranger’s POV.

       2. Yeah, I forgot about Maeda. He could be the closer next year and then work Gonsolin into that role in the future. With a Kershaw trade we would have to pay some salary of course and include a good prospect or two. But, I think it would be worth it for the future. He’s still would be a good pitcher for Texas, but doesn’t fill a need for us as a playoff team. This is assuming we replace him with a Cole or Strasburg if he were to opp out. This is all pie in the sky speculation so who really knows. First order of business is rid ourselves of Roberts. Without that happening anything else is irrelevant.

31. Lots of takes this morning. Here’s mine:
    1 – I get that Roberts brought in Kershaw to get the last out in the 7th (a lefty, Eaton). I assumed that he wouldn’t bring Kershaw in to get 1 out so wasn’t surprised to see him pitch to Rendon to start the 8th. I also assumed that he would pitch to Soto since he’s a lefty. They didn’t want to have Rendon hit against Kolarek or to burn 3 pitchers in the 8th. Kershaw didn’t get it done, but I don’t put this on Roberts.
    2 – I was shocked to see Kelly left in to pitch the 10th, and even more shocked to see him left in after allowing the 1st 2 guys to reach base. Kelly hardly pitched since the beginning of September. Anyone notice he hardly threw his fastball? I wonder why. That was a horrible decision.
    3 – Walking Soto made sense. Since there were no outs, it set up a force at the plate.
    4 – I think that Roberts showed that he has no faith in Jansen – I was very surprised not to see him come in to start the 10th. Not that I have much faith in him at this point either.
    5 – Can Roberts? Maybe. He is not much as a strategist. He is a good players’ manager but not at Xs and Os.
    6 – Can Friedman? No way that happens. I agree that he hasn’t been aggressive as I might like at signing free agents or addressing bullpen needs (except in 2017 for the ‘pen), but he has done his job at putting together teams that win. But
    7 – The other day, I quoted Pedro Moura at The Athletic as saying ” But, at one point or another, depth will become irrelevant, and a team’s fate will depend on its stars. It almost always does.” The Friedman way has been to prize depth 1st.
    8 – And here’s where it come down: many of the Dodgers’ stars have a bad track record in the post-season. Bellinger, Seager, Kershaw and Jansen. After last year, the Dodgers let Grandal walk – and his history in the post-season was an important reason why. Does this mean that the Dodgers trade Seager or Bellinger? I seriously doubt it. And Kershaw and Jansen aren’t going anywhere.
    9 – So what do they do to solve the problem?
    a. They have to rebuild the rotation – not that it’s a problem but I doubt that Ryu or Hill come back – Hill’s done and Ryu has Satan as his agent and he’ll be too expensive. So Urias, May or Gonsolin will get a chance to show what they can do. Do they spend the money on the likes of Cole? Doubtful – not the Friedman way.
    b. They are too lefthanded. Lux, Belli, Seager, Joc and Muncy. Which will be traded? What right-handed bat do they acquire? Do they spend the money on the likes of Rendon? Not the Friedman way.
    c. Do they unload guys who don’t perform in the post-season? If so, who? Does that allow them to become less left-handed?
    d. What do they do to solve their bullpen problem?
    e. I think that Friedman stays but Roberts goes. The team loves him and it will be a tough sell so the new manager will have to be able to solve that issue too. No to Maddon. It will probably be someone that no one has thought of.

    1. 99.3% agree!

       1. I’m closer to agreeing 100%.

          Great take Rick. Haven’t said that all that often.

          The Dodger core sans Jansen was allowed to win or lose this game. I agree with that.

          People suggest trades here and I, instead of throwing cold water on those trades, will often play along and offer up alternatives to land a player others have wanted even though I didn’t want that player.

          That said, I was serious when I suggested Bellinger for Glyber Torres. Still would make that trade.

          I would have traded Verdugo for Hanager, still would but now Seattle might listen to trading Hanager.

          If Kershaw would be interested in finishing his career near his family and friends in Texas, I would make that trade.

          Buehler, Urias, May for the rotation and Maeda as closer.

          Trade Gonsolin.

          Pederson gets to come back for another year. Hopefully he spends the off season learning to switch hit.

32. Kershaw just doesn’t seem to be able to keep from serving up HRs. Refuses or doesn’t have the ability to develop new pitches. Like a simple change up. Doesn’t have the command of the zone a pitcher with his fading physical gifts needs. It’s sad and the end of an era. Been happening for a while now. Bellinger and Seager were effectively neutralized. Not what we need from franchise players. Are they the future? Does that bode well for the team? Beats me. I don’t see DR coming back… but who knows. I’ve been an L.A. Dodger fan from the get go and have seen a lot of heartbreaking losses. 1966 comes to mind. The loss to the Orioles in the WS and then the way greater loss of Koufax. Now that was devastating. So, back to the drawing board. Draw up another plan and hope the players can execute it when the going gets tough. I’ll be back. Hope maybe next year will be THE YEAR. And maybe we could put a few YEARS together. If yer gonna hope, hope big. I predict another west div champ for next year. As for the post season, no prediction.

33. As I’ve stated in previous posts, the Dodgers are built for the regular season in an extremely weak National League West and National League in general. Good pitching stops the Dodger offense as it’s been shown the last three years in post season. You also need power starting arms in the post season and besides Buehler, the Dodgers have nobody to fill that role. Dave Roberts can’t manage under pressure in the post season. Andrew Friedman has a lot of work to do to rebuild a bullpen and starting staff. Cole would be a nice fit,but I don’t see the Dodgers spending $200K. The minor league system is loaded ,so it’s time to use those assets to acquire missing pieces. We need a healthy Verdugo back and a possible trade package of Stripling,Barnes and Beatty or Peterson to acquire bullpen help or a big right handed bat. A very disappointing conclusion to the 2019 season.

34. Some random thoughts:
    1) A lot of anger out there in Dodger world today. Kind of mirrors what the world looks like these days.
    2) A little bit of extra irony that the winning pitcher and guy who got the winning hit are both ex-Dodgers
    3) Very much agree with dodgerpatch that a lot of the bad bullpen decisions Doc made last night ultimately were created by his lack of confidence in Kenley
    4) Very much agree with AC that this team needs a field leader (non-pitcher) who has lots of talent coupled with major attitude. We have a great group of guys but the guy most point to as the field leader (JT) is a soft spoken guy and basically leads by example. We need another Kirk Gibson/Reggie Jackson, etc. Where to find him? Ah……………………………..that’s the question.
    5) For those who want to fire Doc, he has his good points and his bad ones. Overall I personally feel more positively than negatively about him but he hasn’t led us to the Promised Land in four tries so if the powers that be decide to make a change I wouldn’t be devastated. But where to find someone who could actually do better?
    6) For those want to hire Joe Maddon, how many playoff games did the Cubs win this year? And the man was just fired by a GM whom some consider superior to Friedman. No thank you.
    7) My guts weren’t ripped apart last night when I saw the grand slam, and that surprised me. Maybe my subconscious already knew that game was lost. I’ve been a Dodger fan for over 60 years and I ain’t gonna stop bein’ one now. I got my last one in ’88 and I may never see another one, but I’ve enjoyed the ride tremendously in spite of all the recent potholes.

35. Silver lining is AF will have more time to hold organizational meetings and start the blueprint for 2020.

    Fans will continue to show up (nearly four million this year) but as for me I will watch curiously to see what AF does this year.

    I make at least four weekend trips a year to DS, have gone to ST probably 7-8 times both at VB and CBR and this summer followed the Dodgers to four NL cities to see them play on the road.

    I will always remain a Dodger fan for life but I’ll also hold to my $$ to see what AF does. It’s time for Guggenheim to tell AF to spend to get Rendon, Cole and seek strategic trades to strengthen the roster and the minor league pipeline.

36. What a disheartening loss last night. I had hoped for so much more. Wait until next year.

    One thing I’ve learned from conducting 100s of mediations, people don’t make their best decisions when angry or when overly emotional. I’m going to let this sink in for awhile before I start considering the moves needed for next year.

37. Fire Roberts and Honeycutt! I am so sick of their incompetent game calls over the past 3 years which have cost the team two titles. They continued to pitch to Rendon and the 20 y/o … there was no reason for it–walk them or hit them, don’t give them a chance. Where was Kenley? Once Kershaw gave up that one to Rendon, put in Koralek against the 20 y/o! Kelly got lit up game 4… and did the same to lose the series giving up the grand slam. They bring in Kenley after the slam? Seriously? Dollar short a day late. Pollock was hitless and they bring him in the 10th for Joc who actually had a chance. Smh. Roberts and Honeycutt are paid the big bucks and can’t see the big picture. They have way too much confidence in Kershaw. He is old and washed up. At best he could come out of the pen, which is apparently is questionable as well. The Dodgers get too cocky and under estimate the opponent. Playoff teams are dangerous teams. 3 runs are not going to win a playoff game. Lay down a bunt, steal a base, get hit by a pitch. Do anything to win. The Dodgers are soft. They always have been and always will be. I’ve watched them for 35 years grew up 15 minutes from the stadium and their lack of competativeness is something to spit on. They bank on their skills and have no heart. Flashy overpaid hype. They play too loose and lackadasical . Bring in Joe Madden. We need some anger, some grit, and intelligent baseball moves. I don’t think I’ll be turning on the games next year if Roberts is still there–can’t stand that guy’s face . Time for new blood.

    1. Could not have said it any better than that !!! Agree

    2. when Joe fails you will hate his face too

       lets not forget, when Kersh was in his prime he still tanked in the post season.
       he blew all kind of leads etc.
       he does get creative every season though.
       youtube has it all.

38. “I felt good about Clayton right there. Eaton, and when you got Rendon and Soto, so I felt that I liked Clayton. He threw, I don’t know what it was, a couple pitches, and we had Clayton ready for whatever today. So for Maeda to go through Soto, Kenta in this role, we really liked him against the right-hander. And the success that Clayton’s had against Soto with the two-run lead, I’ll take Clayton any day in that situation. I just think it’s one of those where it was easy for me to get Clayton, with the low pitches to get Rendon and to go out there and get Soto. And to have Kenta behind him. That was my thought, and not have Kenta go through Soto.”

    Can anyone even explain what this means?

    If you can’t properly explain you reasoning, that means you didn’t think it through properly.

    Rick’s was an astute post, but I’ll disagree with the comment about burning pitchers. That 8th inning, and in particular getting through Rendon and Soto, are where you need to burn through pitchers and play the best matchup just to get those two guys out.

    The Dodgers had May, Kenta, Baez, Kolarek, Kenley and Kelly. What would you be saving them for?

39. The team won A FRANCHISE RECORD this year. The Dodgers didn’t need to deviate from what got them there. Maeda was in the pen to shore things up and he did. He had been better than we could all hope. The Dodgers didn’t need to be the team deviating and bringing in a starting pitcher out of desperation. I dont how Rendon hit that pitch out but this plan to piggyback CK seemed like a bad idea when it was apparent that Maeda had been the real weapon out of the pen.
    ~
    We all knew the CK had struggled in his first inning all year long. He’s no longer capable of throwing gas. Bringing him out of pen like it was a must move made no sense to me. I defended pinch hitting for Maeda in Game 4 because he would be needed in Game 5. I thought Roberts saw that too.
    ~
    If Roberts gets canned so be it. I don’t want Maddon though. My concerns about Cody and Cory came true. Especially Seager. Bellinger having some better swings after Game 2. He played good D and stole some bases.
    ~
    I’ve been thinking lately about a so-called dope fiend move. I don’t care what JDM’s defensive flaws are. I would rather see him in LF than Pollock. The Dodgers need a RH bat someone much better and reliable than AJ Pollock especially with JT getting
    older. Seager may have put himself on the trade block but I haven’t seen enough of Lux to feel comfortable with that move.

40. Yesterday I said that if we lost this series, there would be calls to fire both Doc and Friedman, get rid of the ownership people, and strip the team down and pretty much start over. I also said there would be calls for a new stadium. I’ve seen pretty much all of that except for faulting the stadium, when in fact, that is where the blame belongs.

    If right field were 5 feet shorter, we’d all be talking about Smith’s walk off homer today and getting ready to beat the Cards in the NLCS.

    Five feet and a lot of you would be singing a different tune today.

    I’ve been a die-hard Dodger fan for over 60 years and I’m just amazed that I’m not feeling the anger that all of you seem to be spewing today. I’m not telling you that you shouldn’t be angry, I’m just wondering why I’m not. My guys played their asses off during the series. Some of them played horribly and that ultimately cost us a chance to move on. Am I disappointed? Absolutely. Am I frustrated? Definitely. But I’m not angry. And I don’t really know why.

41. .! As a team they just didn’t play well enough and maybe they just aren’t good enough. But I don’t agree with you about their attitude, their heart or how hard they play. It’s a quality group of young men with a lot of class. Proud to be a Dodger fan!

42. Unbelievable.. I was saying ok, when buehler is done they need to go to Maeda .. he’s been very effective against the team that has scored over 200 runs after the 7th.. they show him warming up.. I’m thinking ok cool.. then I see kershaw come out .. now I’m like WTF.. but thinking ok just for Eaton.. no problem .. ok Maeda to face rendon, Soto and kedricks.. WHAT?.. kershaw again .. can Roberts not read or understand a stat sheet?.. does he not know that rendon has gotten more hits off kershaw than any other dodger pitcher?? Ok so after rendon hits the ball to San Diego, you keep a guy in there that can’t break a window with his fastball trying to blow one buy the next best hitter in the lineup .. this one winds up just south of the border.. then Maeda.. seriously .. even better, let’s give our team a fighting chance in the 10th.. we’ll lead off with a guy that is 0-12 and 10ks.. way to show them Dave.. when you got a guy Russell martin that had a double and hr in the last game he played .. as opposed to his last year in T-ball.. Roberts either doesn’t want to win or doesn’t know how to win .. he is a complete idiot and needs to go.. this years team would’ve been like coaching the ’93 cowboys .. and losing !… he’s an idiot ..

43. Just a comment on many who have said that Doc s decisions based on him not having confidence in Kenley. Ok, but you mean he felt that bringing in a tired Kelly for a second inning was a better choice. Something is not making sense here.

    1. He didn’t think Kelly was tired. Had an excellent 10 pitch, low stress inning. Turns out that was faulty thinking but that was Doc’s explanation.

44. OK guys, our off-season begins today and we need to help Friedman build a better juggernaut.
    Most all of us seem to think we need a right-handed power bat.
    Martinez will probably opt out and be available
    Castellanos and Abreu are free agents.
    Bryant may be available in trade.
    Javier Baez may be available (although unlikely)
    Betts may be available in trade.
    Lindor may be available in trade. (not necessarily a power bat but a very good player)
    Any thoughts?

    1. Obviously, we do not nor cannot help Andrew Friedman.

       1. Are you saying he’s beyond help or indicating that he doesn’t listen to us?

          1. I doubt he knows we exist and should be fired on the spot if he turned to us for insight.

45. Trade Seager for Bryant. Trade Urias, Kelly , Joc for Mookie Betts. Sign Cole. Find someone to take bad contract of pollock . Trade for Lindor. Let Hill, Freese, Walk out. …

    1. Hey Carlos, maybe we could trade Tommy Lasorda and the Bat Boy for Mike Trout. You have no future as a GM.

46. Here’s Houston Mitchell of The Times:
    “And you know what? We all saw this coming. The bullpen problems. Kershaw and Bellinger fading. The lack of plate discipline in crucial situations. I wrote about it all season, you wrote to me about it all season. Meanwhile the Dodgers marched merrily on. “We have postseason experience now. We have a lot of depth. Our bullpen will work itself out.” I don’t want to hear any of that again.”

    And:
    “– The 10th starts and Kelly is back out there again, despite not being a great two-inning pitcher. His ERA in appearances that last more than an inning this season: 8.39.”

    Surely someone on the Dodgers had to know that Kelly is no good after he’s pitched an inning.

    And
    “– I don’t mind the Dodgers losing when they get beat by a better team. But to give the other team opportunity after opportunity because of mismanagement is inexcusable. Roberts is a great 162-game season manager, when you can afford to give away a game or two here or there. But he’s a terrible playoff manager, where every mistake is magnified and every win is precious.”

    And one more:
    “– Here’s what I know about the Dodgers and the playoffs. Their best pitcher (Kershaw) falls apart. Their best hitter (Cody Bellinger) is a nonentity. Bellinger had a grand total of zero RBIs in this postseason. Zero. Good thing for him that NL MVP votes were due before the playoffs began, because if they weren’t he’d finish third behind Anthony Rendon and Christian Yellich.
    — Rendon went seven for 17 with three doubles, a homer, five RBIs and five runs scored. That’s what MVP candidates are supposed to do in the postseason.”

47. First let me say that I’m a life long Dodger Fan. I played the game and I’ve been a student of the game my entire life. To reach the pinnacle of winning a championship you need people who have done it before. That goes from bottom to top. Scouts, players, coaches, managers, front office, ownership. One common denominator with the Dodgers is that no one anywhere in the organization has won a World Series Championship where they had a significant part as a player, coach, manager or as a front office decision maker. Some of you might say what about Tommy Lasorda? True. But he’s 93 years old and can’t remember what he ate for breakfast. You say what about David Freese? Yep. I agree. Good guy to have on the club just like Chase Utley was. Problem is these guys were and are strictly role players who don’t play enough to make significant contributions. Dave Roberts ? Yep. Stole a base that sparked one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history. But did he really make any significant contribution? The answer is no.
    Now let’s talk about the real roots of this issue which is the front office. The team president is 42 years old. He never played professional baseball. He has benefited from being with two top tier baseball franchises Tampa and LA. Tampa was a great job for him. Under no pressure to perform in a small media market. Touted as one of the best young minds in baseball! Ok, ownership decides he’s the guy yet he never played the game. Never rode the bus in the minors with no air conditioning and with $10 of meal money for the trip. Never wore a jersey that had four different name changes on it. Never knew what it was like to grind everyday not knowing if you’re going play or get released. So here are the keys to the franchise ! Make it happen! Oh, by the way here’s $300,000,000 you need to manage and don’t worry about the $43,000,000 we have to pay in luxury tax! Oh, we also have the best minor league system in baseball so try not to screw that up! To top it off we haven’t won a World Series in 30 years and your immediate bosses including Magic Johnson don’t know a thing about baseball but expect championships. Go get’em Tiger!!!!
    So I would imagine once his head stopped spinning he might address what the clubs needs are. Well, we have a great young core of players! Buehler, Bellinger, Seager, Lux, etc. We have some good arms coming up too in May, Gonsolin. But we do have a need for a catcher who can actually catch the baseball and the bullpen needs a revamp. We could also use a couple more starting pitchers as Kershaw is now showing his age and our young arms need more seasoning before we bring them up.
    Ok, here’s my plan. Let’s fire Donny Baseball and replace him with Dave Roberts? Hmmm. No managerial experience but he’s a great guy with a positive attitude. Now let’s go get some players. JT Realmuto can be had for Gavin Lux. Nope we want to keep Lux. Ok, now we can get Realmuto in free agency for cheap!!!! Nope. Austin Barnes can do the job. Hmmm. Ok, let’s go get a starting pitcher at the deadline!!! Yeah, Yu Darvish! What about Jason Verlander? Nope. He’s old and done. Hmmmm. Ok, let’s address the bullpen. Let’s resign Morrow he’s really done a great job getting us to Kenley to close out games. Nope. Let’s sign Joe Kelly to a long term deal after all he shut us down in the World Series last year!!!! Hmmmm. You know what else? Kenley’s Cutter ain’t cutting like it used to. We could use another closer. Nope. Adam Kolarek is the answer a left handed situational guy. Hmmmm. Ok, so we really didn’t address any of our needs before the trade deadline? Nope. We like our roster besides Jed Gyorko is going to provide some veteran leadership and some extra pop to the lineup! Shouldn’t we have signed some more players or make a trade of some sort? Nope. Unfortunately, we’re still playing Scott Kazmir the $48,000,000 whom we’ve decided to trade to the along with Brandon McCarthy who we also gave $48,000,000 to along with a disgruntled Adrain Gonzalez to the Braves but we still pay their salaries so we’re done spending. Besides, we are practically paying all our young guys nothing and they will lead us to the promise land. Hmmmmm. Corey Seager can’t hit the ball down and in so let’s bat him 5th? Cody Bellinger is the mvp but has only hit .178 total in the postseason. Hmmmm. Ok, you know what we’re on the brink of losing in the divisional playoff so with the game and series on the line our manager is going to tell everyone on Earth that Clayton Kershaw is going to be brought in to save the game? Hmmmm. Well, Walker Buehler is still throwing 98 on the black and getting guys out! Nope. Kershaw is our guy. Hmmmm. You do know that he’s 9-11 in his postseason career and has given up 24 home runs? Yeah, but he’s Clayton Kershaw!!!! Hmmmm. Well, that didn’t work out but we still can easily win this game and advance so let’s try Joe Kelly instead of Kenley Jansen. Hmmmm. Ok, well you do understand that Joe Kelly is a mental case and only threw 6 pitches the last few weeks of the season? Nope. He shut us down last year so he’ll step up here. We can’t trust Kenley anymore. Hmmmm. Ok, well let’s hope Howie Kendrick doesn’t comeback to haunt us!

    1. I appreciate the time that must have taken.

       1. Bluto, you’re a smart well informed fan. Not only is everything I wrote true and factual but it boggles the mind that men who are billionaires who own this franchise trust the entire enchilada to a guy who knows virtually knows nothing about the game. They’re paying Andrew Friedman $7,000,000 a year and dishing another $300,000,000 in salaries to the players and all he continues to do is wet his bed? Andrew Friedman must have been a weather man before baseball. He figures it’s ok to be wrong half the time.

          1. If you believe any or all of that, then good for you!

48. First let me say that I’m a life long Dodger Fan. I played the game and I’ve been a student of the game my entire life. To reach the pinnacle of winning a championship you need people who have done it before. That goes from bottom to top. Scouts, players, coaches, managers, front office, ownership. One common denominator with the Dodgers is that no one anywhere in the organization has won a World Series Championship where they had a significant part as a player, coach, manager or as a front office decision maker. Some of you might say what about Tommy Lasorda? True. But he’s 93 years old and can’t remember what he ate for breakfast. You say what about David Freese? Yep. I agree. Good guy to have on the club just like Chase Utley was. Problem is these guys were and are strictly role players who don’t play enough to make significant contributions. Dave Roberts ? Yep. Stole a base that sparked one of the greatest comebacks in playoff history. But did he really make any significant contribution? The answer is no.
    Now let’s talk about the real roots of this issue which is the front office. The team president is 42 years old. He never played professional baseball. He has benefited from being with two top tier baseball franchises Tampa and LA. Tampa was a great job for him. Under no pressure to perform in a small media market. Touted as one of the best young minds in baseball! Ok, ownership decides he’s the guy yet he never played the game. Never rode the bus in the minors with no air conditioning and with $10 of meal money for the trip. Never wore a jersey that had four different name changes on it. Never knew what it was like to grind everyday not knowing if you’re going play or get released. So here are the keys to the franchise ! Make it happen! Oh, by the way here’s $300,000,000 you need to manage and don’t worry about the $43,000,000 we have to pay in luxury tax! Oh, we also have the best minor league system in baseball so try not to screw that up! To top it off we haven’t won a World Series in 30 years and your immediate bosses including Magic Johnson don’t know a thing about baseball but expect championships. Go get’em Tiger!!!!
    So I would imagine once his head stopped spinning he might address what the clubs needs are. Well, we have a great young core of players! Buehler, Bellinger, Seager, Lux, etc. We have some good arms coming up too in May, Gonsolin. But we do have a need for a catcher who can actually catch the baseball and the bullpen needs a revamp. We could also use a couple more starting pitchers as Kershaw is now showing his age and our young arms need more seasoning before we bring them up.
    Ok, here’s my plan. Let’s fire Donny Baseball and replace him with Dave Roberts? Hmmm. No managerial experience but he’s a great guy with a positive attitude. Now let’s go get some players. JT Realmuto can be had for Gavin Lux. Nope we want to keep Lux. Ok, now we can get Realmuto in free agency for cheap!!!! Nope. Austin Barnes can do the job. Hmmm. Ok, let’s go get a starting pitcher at the deadline!!! Yeah, Yu Darvish! What about Jason Verlander? Nope. He’s old and done. Hmmmm. Ok, let’s address the bullpen. Let’s resign Morrow he’s really done a great job getting us to Kenley to close out games. Nope. Let’s sign Joe Kelly to a long term deal after all he shut us down in the World Series last year!!!! Hmmmm. You know what else? Kenley’s Cutter ain’t cutting like it used to. We could use another closer. Nope. Adam Kolarek is the answer a left handed situational guy. Hmmmm. Ok, so we really didn’t address any of our needs before the trade deadline? Nope. We like our roster besides Jed Gyorko is going to provide some veteran leadership and some extra pop to the lineup! Shouldn’t we have signed some more players or make a trade of some sort? Nope. Unfortunately, we’re still playing Scott Kazmir the $48,000,000 whom we’ve decided to trade to the along with Brandon McCarthy who we also gave $48,000,000 to along with a disgruntled Adrain Gonzalez to the Braves but we still pay their salaries so we’re done spending. Besides, we are practically paying all our young guys nothing and they will lead us to the promise land. Hmmmmm. Corey Seager can’t hit the ball down and in so let’s bat him 5th? Cody Bellinger is the mvp but has only hit .178 total in the postseason. Hmmmm. Ok, you know what we’re on the brink of losing in the divisional playoff so with the game and series on the line our manager is going to tell everyone on Earth that Clayton Kershaw is going to be brought in to save the game? Hmmmm. Well, Walker Buehler is still throwing 98 on the black and getting guys out! Nope. Kershaw is our guy. Hmmmm. You do know that he’s 9-11 in his postseason career and has given up 24 home runs? Yeah, but he’s Clayton Kershaw!!!! Hmmmm. Well, that didn’t work out but we still can easily win this game and advance so let’s try Joe Kelly instead of Kenley Jansen. Hmmmm. Ok, well you do understand that Joe Kelly is a mental case and only threw 6 pitches the last few weeks of the season? Nope. He shut us down last year so he’ll step up here. We can’t trust Kenley anymore. Hmmmm. Ok, well let’s hope Howie Kendrick doesn’t comeback to haunt us!

49. Carlos, I’m still a big Cory Seager fan, but given his injuries and sub-par performances the last few years, what makes you think that the Cubs would do that deal? And given that Bryant plays 3B (but could possibly be moved to 1B), what would the Dodgers do at short. If you’re thinking Kike’ and/or Taylor, I’m not for it. And Urias, Kelly and Joc for Mookie Betts, why would Boston even consider it? If a deal is made for Betts, you can bet it has to include Lux along with some of our other top prospects, like Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, and who knows who else. Betts would require a king’s ransom in return. And as much as I would love to have Betts, it appears that 2018 may have been an outlier.

    https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bettsmo01.shtml

    And as good as Betts has been and will probably be, you can expect that his power numbers will decline if he moves to the NL West vs. the AL East, where the latter is home to the HR friendly ballparks in Boston, NY and Baltimore. Not sure about Toronto. Betts is very good, but maybe not worth the King’s Ransom that Boston would likely demand in return.

    There was a lot of digest in today’s posts. Enough to give anyone indigestion.

    I mentioned last night in the previous thread that I hoped the Dodgers would sign both Rendon and Cole. And I still stand by that, although when it comes right down to it, I am simply in favor of the Dodgers being aggressive in the FA market in addition to building from within, where appropriate. And admittedly I haven’t delved into the FA market in any detail, so I’m not totally certain how the Dodgers should proceed in that arena. Nor do I have a clue about any trades they may make.

    I think I recall that someone mentioned that Cole was in his 30’s. That’s not exactly true, as he was born in September 1990, which means that he won’t turn 30 until the end of next season. Pretty much the same for Rendon, who was born in June 1990. In other words, both players are in the prime of their careers, and should be for the next several years. In fact, Betts was born on October 7, 1992 (which means he shares a birthday with both me and Vladimir Putin 🙂 ).

    Like everyone else here I was extremely disappointed last night. And although Kershaw and Kelly (the Killer K’s?) deserve a big part of the blame, for me the biggest failure (which I mentioned during the game in the previous thread) was the Dodgers inability to tack on runs after the 2nd inning. And despite 106 wins, that was something the Dodgers did all too often during the regular season.

    Regarding Cory Seager, although I would consider trading him (as I would any player) for a the right package of players, I still believe in him. Seager’s decline began with the elbow problems he began to have at the end of the 2017 season, and the surgeries he had in 2018 for that same elbow and his hip. He has spent the last two off-seasons rehabbing rather than working out. If he is able to have a more normal off-season this year, I suspect that he may come back a lot better than he has been, and with a lot more power than he’s exhibited in recent years. Of course, that’s all of guess on my part, so I can’t attest to its validity.

    And I expect that a lot of the younger Dodger players (and that includes Bellinger along with all of this years rookies) will benefit from all that they experienced and learned this past year.

    1. The biggest issue last night was NOT the offense.

       The team had a 3-1 lead and six outs to go.

       A 3-0 lead with twelve outs to go, was when the mismanagement began.

       The manager totally wasted that opportunity with nonsensical moves.

       SIX OUTS.

       1. Bluto I totally agree with all of that.

50. Been a long day today.

    For some reason that hurt more than the past 7 years, including the 2 WS defeats.

    I think it was because every single Dodger fan could see what was unfolding before them, and were helpless to do anything. Like a bad dream.

    I said before the game that I had a bad feeling, and so it panned out.

    I’ve read all the posts, and every one has merit. For me the thing that made me uneasy before the get go, was the way Doc lined Kershaw to pitch game 2, where Ryu would have been a better choice, on the premise that Kershaw would then be available to pitch in Relief in game 5.
    Why? We’ve got relievers to do that.

    Doc had already decided, before the 1st pitch of the Series was thrown, that come game 5, Kershaw was gonna be the first through the BP Gates.
    He did not waver from that premise.

    Maeda was the obvious choice at that time. He had been our best performer and now was his moment. But no.
    The rest is history.

    Kelly had it, and then was given too long a leash. He should’ve been out of there ASAP in the 10th.

    The other odd thing for me, and I know people will day he must’ve been too banged up to play, was that if I’m not mistaken, David Freese only had one more AB in the series after coming off the bench and going 3-3 in game 3!

    That is mad.

51. Paul Laduca tweeted that Roberts manages like he’s “intimidated or scared” (something to that effect) and I think he is right. Managing with no sense of urgency, using CK because he wants CK to exorcise the post season demons, trying to get 2 innings out of Kelly almost like he was managing for an extended extra inning game.

    In the playoffs you have to manage with a sense of urgency and if a pitcher can only get one out and you take him you have to. With so many “bullets left in the gun” you have to use them up in a win or go home scenario.

    With May, KJ, Kolarek, Urias, Stripling all available you have to ask yourself was Doc managing for an extra inning affair or an eye on the next game and completely forgetting the need to win NOW? He should have matched up better and we, as fans, deserve better.

    Not sure who that is, but I fully expect for us to be surprised in the next week to ten days with some breaking news of Doc being let go, perhaps some significant coaching changes, or even a new FO. There will be changes, doing the same thing and expecting a different result it insanity.

52. maybe its friedman that controls everything

53. Far be it for me to disagree with Molly Knight, a great writer, loved her book, and she has no doubt excellent sources, but if she’s saying (I don’t subscribe to the Athletic so I couldn’t read the article, yah I know) that the Dodgers should fire Roberts because the Dodgers got knocked out of the playoffs in the first round, that’s an extreme over reaction and I’m sorry … makes no sense. I’m not sure where she gets the idea that the front office isn’t heavily involved in the plan (who to hit, who follows Buehler etc. When I actually had some direct insight (which I no longer have) into the Dodgers that certainly wasn’t the case, which was the reason Roberts was hired in the first place. It was his ability to work directly with the front office to help create a plan. Just listening to MLB radio and that question came up. Should Roberts be fired? Both analysts said absolutely not, noting that the front office has a lot of input in decision making. They then discussed the major part of a manager’s job, working with all the personalities and getting them to buy into the plan. He does that incredibly well and that’s no easy task, especially with the Dodgers using players like pieces to a puzzle every day. For that to work, you have to create buy-in, not something every manager could do. Seriously, someone wants to trade Seager. That’s crazy. But from time to time somebody has written about the incredible technology available to make players better or improve their skills. Yes, some of it is useful, but it still didn’t prevent Seager from swinging at the down and in breaking stuff or prevent players from chasing balls outside the zone. It still comes down to players playing well, pitch recognition, not chasing or if you’re a pitcher, locating and making the pitch break correctly. It’s interesting that the runner-up to Roberts for the job, Gabe Kepler, was fired by the Phillies today.

54. Grady Little got fired for less. Doc did his best Grady Little times 4 last night. Doc is a stubborn man and a spin master. Tough to spin this one. His luck ran out. The players bail him out more times than not. But not this time.
    But the players didn’t get it done. They didn’t “execute” as Mark likes to say. Their GOAT actually turned out to be one along with Pollock, Seager, Bellinger and Kelly. (I said at he beginning that Kelly would be a key to the Dodger’s future. That proved to be prophetic but in the wrong way) Doc’s managing was poor but they play poorly when it mattered. .186 against lefties won’t cut it along with 65 K’s. The players needed to show up and perform and they didn’t.
    When I first got on this blog I asked the question of how much of Doc’s decisions are influenced by folks upstairs. Mark pounded me about Doc being his own man and how there isn’t an implant in Doc’s head from upstairs, so I shut about it. Today this question was raised by Ben Lindbergh “For the most part, modern managers don’t act on their own, and Roberts may have been drawing on proprietary intel or following front-office orders.” Maybe my original question wasn’t so far fetched. I’m not suggesting that that was the case with in game decisions like last night but maybe there is more intervention on line ups and personnel stuff than we know. Inevitably it doesn’t matter.
    Some great, thorough posts today. I’m sorry it ended this way but…..That’s Baseball.
    I’ll pass big time on Joe Maddon.

55. I have always wanted AJ Ellis to manage the Dodgers.

    1. Chances are he’d do a better job of managing the bullpen than Doc does, but I really don’t think we want another guy with no previous managerial experience.
       Wouldn’t mind him as bench coach if Geren leaves.

       1. If Geren leaves I would like to see Bill Haselman as the bench coach. He was a wonderful and very successful Dodger AAA manager.

    2. I wouldn’t want to see Ellis anywhere near that dugout while Kershaw is still a player on this team. I don’t want another repeat of this year’s thinking that he’s still the man.

56. Good afternoon everyone,
    long time reader. Im still feeling angry, sad, and sick to my stomach from this series. A couple of things that I may be wrong about from this is, Muncy and Buehler showed up to play, 5, 35, 11 to name a few are awesome players but at most times of the series seemed lost and at times already beat during their at bats. Kolarek had been getting big outs in this series, what do you say to him? where is the trust? Rich Hill game four starter, you could see him hobbling around the mound at times hurting, what is that, so a hurt Rich Hill is better than a healthy May, Urias? I know the experience and pressure of the game, I just think that when someone is hurt they don’t give you the best chance to win. I think some of those moves in a play off series is what gets managers on the hot seat. Anyway God bless all of you. Still a DODGER FAN FOR LIFE.

57. Bluto,

    You followed my post with this:

    “The biggest issue last night was NOT the offense.

    The team had a 3-1 lead and six outs to go.

    A 3-0 lead with twelve outs to go, was when the mismanagement began.

    The manager totally wasted that opportunity with nonsensical moves.

    SIX OUTS.”

    Do you not understand the importance of tacking on runs during a game? The object is to put the game for the opposition as far out of reach as possible. No doubt that Doc’s bullpen usage played a very large role in yesterday’s loss. But if the Dodgers had 4, 5, or 6 runs or even more, might not that have made a difference in the bullpen usage, and therefore the outcome. The fact is, the Dodgers did not score a single run after the 2nd inning. And that is something I was thinking about throughout the game, wondering if the Dodgers squandering scoring opportunities was going to come back and haunt them. And yes, it did.

58. Bluto/ Brooklyn

    You’re both right.

59. It kinda feels like you are saying:

    “If only the offense had made it impossible for Roberts to fuck it up”

    Perhaps I can use different words:

    There are only a handful of games for a good manager to differentiate from a poor one. They can all:

    Bat better earlier than worse ones. Not give away outs.
    Seek favorable matchups.
    Research tendencies.
    Take out tired pitchers or ineffective ones.

    Yesterday’s game was one of the few that the mangers mattered.

    The Dodgers scored three runs off Strasburg in seven innings.Ib think his career ERA is about three over nine. they did their job. They could have done more, but the offense did their job.

    Roberts’ job was to work his bullpen to get six outs. If he had played matchups inefficiently and used:
    Urias, Kelly, May, maeda, Jansen and kolarek EACH for just one out he would have done his job. Poorly, but he would have done it.

    Instead he butchered it. Badly.

    When he had to do his job, or what defines his job. He failed. The offense did not.

    Go look at my posts from yesterday. You can see a more granular breakdown

    1. So you’re allowed to the holy of all holys, but I can’t say suck a d? I just laughed again, still funny.

       1. What?

          Holy?

60. It feels like this will either be a chance to make major changes and start off to rebuild the roster in a better way; or this will mark the end of our major run, and we will have a mass exodus, starting with Friedman, including Roberts, Geren, Honeycutt, various players. I hope that the ownership has some top GM names in mind in case Friedman does what Billy Beane decided not to do in the past, and leave the A’s for bigger money in Boston. Things turn on a dime sometimes. It’s hard for me to imagine that next season will look like the kind of fairly seamless transition from this one, the way it did after last season.

61. Looking on the bright side…

    We didn’t lose three World Series in a row.

    It is better to have played 5 post season games, than to not make the postseason.

    Cory and Cody are still a few years away from their primes, Muncy is in his prime, Lux and Smith will be better for the experience.

    We have a lot of young and talented starting pitchers in Bueller, May, Gonsolin and Urias.

    We have a strong farm system loaded with prospect capital.

    There’s a lot of good things going on here.

    1. This is all so important.

       If Roberts doesn’t screw the pooch IMO the Dodgers win.

       The organization is great. The farm system loaded. The revenues top tier. A majority of the talent is controlled, it’s (on the whole) very rosy

       1. Ryu is likely to be gone. Turner now cannot stay healthy for more than half a season, and as great as he has been to have on the team, next year will probably be his last year here. The bullpen has no closer and no set-up man, unless Maeda wants to be the latter. The starting staff is likely to have two guys who would be in their first full season, and might or might not be good at this point. The best two younger players have shown no ability to hit in the postseason. The starting catcher is unproven over a full season. A pitching staff of Buehler, Kershaw, Urias, May and someone else is not top-level. probably behind St. Louis, Atlanta, the Mets, Washington, in whatever order those are.

          There is young talent, but that is always risky to rely on, particularly as early as next season. The likelihood is that the Dodgers will be no better than the fourth best team in the National League next year. As long as the NL West stays weak, they have a good chance to make the playoffs, but it won’t stay weak forever. As to revenues, that is great for the owners.

          1. Or:

             Ryu is likely to return. Turner has another year, and the team is well positioned ot easily replace him. The team is abundant in arms and has so few other holes it can concentrate on the ‘pen.

             The staff is pretty much set. With Buehler, Kershaw, Ryu, May and Urias. Not to mention Stripling and Gonsolin who would be in the top 5 for any other team in the NL.

             There is young talent, and the team doesn’t need to rely on them. It’s a great blend. The likelihood is they would have gone further had Roberts not screwed the pooch. Next year, they are the early favorite to again be in the top 3 of teams in MLB.

             Now that they’ve reset the Luxury Tax, they can spend their robust revenues if and when it makes sense. Thank god the team has a top Front Office.

             See how easy it is to be optimistic?

          2. You sir, are a pessimist. Not only will we NOT be the 4th best team (which makes absolutely no sense). We will be the best team yet again. Our free agents are Ryu, Hill, Martin, Gyroko and Freese. Together, they’re making a cool $75 million. We paid about $40 million to players that don’t play for us this year. That’s $115 million to be invested elsewhere. We’re gonna be just fine.

             Is Kershaw going to be worse next year? I think he stays even or gets better.
             What did Rich Hill do for us this year? 4 wins.
             Ryu will probably be gone, but we don’t know for sure. But, he’s basically the only guy on the whole team that you need to replace. I think Urias replaces him just fine.

             Why are people talking crap on Urias? He’s going to be left handed Bueller next year and we probably would have won this series if management would have stuck to the plan and put him in the rotation at the end of the year.

             The pitching staff will be better next year than it was this year. The bullpen will be fixed and we’re gonna get a smarter manager and a right handed bat. A real one this time.

             We’re going to be better than ever next year. This core has won over 100 games twice. Just wait until Cody and Corey are grown ups. Then, we’ll be hitting on all cylinders.

             1. Thumbs up

             2. I do appreciate your optimistic viewpoint! It certainly could go that way, but it will be a critical moment, for an organization now 31 years without a Championship. I just wonder if we missed our window, at east for a few years.

    2. And maybe getting bounced in the first round rouses the organization to more of a sense of urgency, forces them to more aggressively tackle some of the weaknesses.

       If you think about it, announcing Kershaw was going to piggyback on Buehler was hubris. It was more an attempt to craft a narrative and solidify CK’s legacy vs. match the best pitcher to a particular at bat and get outs. I might be reading a little too deep into that, but I think there’s some truth to it. If so, it’s arrogance and complacency.

       Heads should roll to get the message across that it’s serious now. Yeah, the farm is stocked, but the window could also be closing.

    3. 59inarow,
       That made me feel better.

       Thanks!

62. I am going to disagree with AC a little. We had some players who did not play well, but baseball is a tough game to play. We played well enough to win the last game. We were up 3-1 going into the eighth. The heart of the line up for the Nats was coming up. Maeda was our shut down reliever in this series. Maeda should if pitched the 8th. Then you have Janseń, Kelly and Baez for the 9th.

    Kershaw is not the pitcher he was 3-4 years ago. Doc, in my opinion, is totally responsible for that loss. If he does not know that Kershaw is not the same pitcher, then he should not be managing. Doc needs to go, but I do not think management has the courage to fire him.

    We have a very good group of young players. We are going to waste this talent if Doc continues as manager.

    The second thing I want to say is that Doc does not know how to play small ball to add on another run when you have the lead. It is all walks and HR’s.

63. Docs gotta go. After the game he still would not admit he managed poorly. I was surprised
    they kept him after starting Darvish against Houston. He should have been sent packing then. Now, after this latest fiasco….well, adios, Doc.
    When the fans couldn’t leave fast enough after the grand slam, the front office should see that we are tired of the same stupid on field decisions.
    Hate to say it but Seager should be traded.
    In a city the size of L.A. there HAS to be a shrink that can turn Belli around in the post season.
    As for CK…we know he isn’t a reliever. Maybe now he will see it too.

64. Maybe it’s not the day to think about this much, but I wonder about Kershaw’s future here. We know that he was a great pitcher, though he was never Koufax. He is a great credit to the game, he does so much charity work. He is not a great pitcher any longer. And there is now this pall that sort of hangs over him. The fans will never desert him, but neither will they be thrilled when he wins an early season game.

    I usually don’t do this, but sometimes on a day like this, it is cathartic, so I was listening to the sports talk shows here. And Petros and Money both thought that Kershaw sitting on the bench after he went out of the game, head slumped, not looking at anything, was not appropriate; that he should have been up there cheering with the rest of his teammates in a tied game where we could certainly still win the series, rather than looking like the personal portrait of futility. Now, I don’t think him doing that cost us the game, that would be silly. And I certainly don’t think that Kershaw is a selfish player or an unduly egotistical one. But “the story of Kershaw” should not be a saga which hangs over the next season. He’s never going to overcome the story of his history of problems in the postseason, unless he goes to another team, where he probably will be the MVP of the series, the way things have gone around here.

    I wonder what his role will be next year. #2 starter? #4? Support for the young pitchers? Will the fans actually start to get tired of him, not as a person, but as a pitcher on the team? I had very mixed feelings when we re-signed him. I finally decided that it would have not been right to have let him go then, even though his salary would be about 15% of the entire payroll. But he is certainly overpaid, he is making more money than any pitcher in baseball, I think. The more recent Dodgers organizations have been very loyal in that way, to their credit. In the older days, they traded Newcombe. let Snider and Hodges go in the expansion draft, and even traded Jackie Robinson to the Giants. In a later era here, we traded Garvey and Cey and Hershiser. Was that cold and disloyal? Or is it better than paying someone past his prime a very large salary, and limiting our ability to get additional top players?

    1. Unless he gets those surgeries that he’s been putting off for years, he’s gonna be about the same or maybe a little better than this year. My logic is that he’s learning to become a finesse pitcher, but his health hasn’t completely deteriorated yet. I think the compensating for his back has put more strain on his arm and he probably needs to get used to it. I think with older pitchers, you never know when a bounce back year or two is gonna happen.

       If he can pitch like this year, he’s still performing like a 2/3, but could likely take the place of Hill as a 4/5. Especially in the post-season, he would probably be a fourth starter.

65. Some final comments:
    Logic says that this team is no better than 2017-2018 teams.
    Many players have no championship level.
    Roberts it’s no better than Mattingly.
    No catchers mix managed to obtain Grandals level.
    Playoff absence of Puig is undeniable.
    Keep Buehler, Bellinger, Ryu, Muncy, May, Gonzo, and Kolarek, build from them a new team.
    No offense but the rest seemed to be expendable.
    See you next year.

66. Two things:
    1) The overwhelming majority here seem to think that Roberts should go.
    2) L.A. Times reporting that it has already been decided that Doc is coming back.

    On the other hand, Kershaw has not yet been named permanent closer.

67. It seems like every single article I read today about the Dodgers, and there were many, suggested that Doc be fired. It seems like the consensus here as well.

    I think Doc is going to be the scapegoat here. He’s made very well documented questionable move for three post-seasons in a row. He’s on a new contract, but that doesn’t mean crap to a team that has a brand to think of. You all might not believe this, but I think AF’s ass is hanging in the wind as well. Sure they said the right things about how they think it’s a done deal that he comes back, but there is some egg on his face for giving Roberts that extension, Pollock and Kelly (his two big free agents) sucking, the non-trade deadline and even Clayton’s extension.

    I think with this much noise in the media calling for Robert’s head, I think (hope) this will be the last we see of him wearing “Panatone 294”. We’re also going to see if AF is tempted to bolt for another team since the heat is on, or if he’s going to bet on himself and revise his approach.

    Maybe this is a wakeup call, or maybe this is the result of a system that Kasten is committed to. As a business, they have got to be doing incredible after cashing in an attendance record amid ticket and parking increases. Not to mention the extra cash that comes with the All-Star game. I think the time is right to invest in the product and come out of their austerity plan. It’s gotta hurt seeing the Nats grab that post-season revenue for the next round or two.

    1. 59, Keep in mind that Doc is AF’s hire. AF would have to lose a lot of face to fire Doc and we all know that AF loves himself and his ideas! He is very smart, adept at building the farm and maintaining a certain talent level with the Warriors philosophy of strength in numbers. We’re he utterly fails is the FA market and pulling in major talent. Maybe his hands are tied by ownership but judging by his moves, Pollock, Kelly, and a slew of other moves since he’s arrived here, have not produced any advantage for the team. Even Hill, who is a very decent and clever pitcher couldn’t stay healthy from Day 1. This is reality. Factual. Freidman needs to be tempered by others in the organization. He has entirely too much power and needs someone to be the GM in charge of personnel. This staff has not gotten it done.

       Every year, we can check the FA market and see who is available. Every year there is talent that has escaped AF with him settling on a lower tiered or oft injured player. This cannot work and has not worked. Can AF change? I doubt it, but ownership can change this. Real accountability aside from financial budgeting should be applied to AF and his team. They have made blunders that few would have survived on other clubs. They have opted to only rely on home grown pitchers and positional players for the most part. It’s a great plan for saving money as the team control lasts for some years. It’s doubtful whether you can build a Championship club with this blueprint as we’ve failed 3 years in a row! Actually, we’ve failed every year AF has been in charge and years before that. There must be a power sharing team put in place for the Dodgers to go to the next level.

       This reminds me of what the Warriors did when Mark Jackson was coaching the team. They had new ownership, Curry, Klay, and Green. Jackson got them into the playoffs for the first time since the early 90’s. In spite of Jackson’s success, they fired him and brought Steve Kerr in. They publicly said they needed someone who was capable of taking them to the next level. The rest is history. They also made Bob Myers the GM and gave him assistants that he needed. It’s a power sharing group with a willing ownership to be fluid and hands on. Everyone wants to win. All are visible throughout the year and the owners are at every game possible, right there on the floor.

68. Doc is coming back.

    https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2019-10-10/dodgers-manager-dave-roberts-will-return-next-season

    Agree wholeheartedly with this assessment from 59.

    “I think the time is right to invest in the product and come out of their austerity plan.”

    1. It’s a bullshit organizational move that originates from AF’s ego and power hungry position. He can’t lose face firing Roberts, just as I said above.

    2. Roberts He Gone !! Friedman He Gone !

69. And Plaschke agrees that he should return.

    https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2019-10-10/dodgers-dave-roberts-booed-nlds-game-five-andrew-friedman

    1. Plaschke has been saying that “the loss was on Roberts,” and that he did a terrible job managing in the game; he has also mentioned the managing mistakes in the last two years of playoffs. But he thinks he should come back? This makes no coherent sense. What magic is going to happen next year so that Roberts will be able to guide us to a championship? It is clear that he has a very poor sense of when to change pitchers or whom to bring in. Is this going to suddenly change? Are the Dodgers going to load up so much talent that anybody, including us, could be the manager? If not, Roberts will be outmanaged.

       But there is some law that says that we must go through this so that it will look more respectable to fire him then? But what if he suddenly gets better after next year?? Maybe we should keep him into perpetuity with the hope that he will somehow get better? Too many Dodgers writers and radio people do not seem to have the courage or the conviction of their assessments. “Roberts cost us the series, but we need to bring him back for a fifth year, because….he wins a lot of regular season games, which we need to get to the playoffs, so he can lose them.” We may get lucky at some point, but there is a good chance that if we make the playoffs again, Roberts will either be outmanaged or the team will be outtalented, or both. If we are not going to spend the kind of money a few other teams are, then we need the best manager. And Roberts is not that. I think that bringing him back would be a mistake, and that it will cost us. We’ve already seen what he can and cannot do.

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