Yesterday, Bill Russell turned 75 years old. To me, Russell was one of those steady, but sometimes unappreciated and underrated players. He spent his entire playing career with the Dodgers. He would also coach for the team and took over as manager when Lasorda had his heart attack.
I did a profile on Bill last December. But it got me to thinking, just how many of our Dodgers that we followed for so long are now getting up there in years, as am I. The infield are all in their 70’s now. Cey is a little bit older than me; he turns 76 in February. Garvey turns 75 in December and is running for Feinstein’s senate seat. Lopes is the old man of the bunch; he is 78 now.
Russell was just one of those guys you see out there every day, unspectacular, but steady. Garvey was the star everybody loved. Lopes and Cey were the workman types. Came to play every day and played hard.
Russell lasted longer than any of them, 18 years as a Dodger. Only Zack Wheat in Dodger history played as long as a Dodger as Russell did. And Bill had some big moments in clutch games. But he was never the guy the fans were counting on to win a game.
He left the team shortly after FOX traded Piazza. Neither he nor Fred Claire had any idea the trade was being made. He later coached for the Rays and managed in theirs and the Giants systems. He currently works for MLB’s umpiring department.
It also made me think about how many of these types of players are essential to a team’s success. Jim Gilliam was the same type of player. Russell started as an outfielder and was moved to SS in the early 70’s but he could play a very good center field. Lopes and Garvey were moved too. Lopes was also an outfielder.
The Dodgers have one of those guys now. Miguel Rojas. Nothing really spectacular about the guy, but he is a defensive wizard, and he occasionally gives you some surprising offense. Russell never hit more than 7 homers in any of his seasons, and several times he hit none. Rojas hit 11 one year and 9 another. .301 was Miggy’s best mark, Russell had a .286 season. He also did not strike out much. 64 times was the most. 74 for Rojas.
I can remember several World Series and playoffs where it wasn’t the stars who came through in the clutch, it was the subs or the unheralded regular who was just in there day after day doing his best. In the 78 World Series, Jackson got all the headlines with his 2 homers and 8 driven in. But it was Bucky Dent and Brian Doyle who tormented LA. Dent had 10 hits and 7 driven in. Doyle had 7 hits and scored 4 runs in the six games.
It takes all kinds to make a winning team, and it is not always the star players who shine. The Dodgers this season had several examples of that. Peralta and Heyward were steady contributors most of the year. Peralta did not hit a home run after July, but he made several very good defensive plays that helped the team win. Heyward provided solid defense and an improved batting style that allowed him to hit better than he had in years. Peralta is a gold glove finalist.
The thing about those Dodger teams was they gave the kids a real shot and they blossomed. Not all of them mind you, but some became very good players. Our kids are going to need that chance too. Maybe they will surprise some people. In today’s world though, many are not willing to wait. Sometimes, things are worth waiting for.
I really have no rooting interest this postseason, but I do not want the Dirtbags winning the NL pennant. Go Phillies! I think a Phillies-Rangers series is going to go at least six games, and there will be some mashing of baseballs.
Old Bear
You hi the nail on the head about giving the kids time to blossom doesnt seem Roberts and company get it. Wish they did instead of all the reclamation projects
Sooner or later, they need to give them a chance. Pitching wise, they are going to have to rely on Miller, Sheehan, Grove and Pepiot, Stone has some growing to do. But I really liked what I saw of Hurt in his one appearance this year. Guy has some serious stuff out of the pen.
Hurt has a shot at the pen next season. Same with Kopp. R-L is a duo of multi-inning relievers. They just need fewer BB’s.
Roberts is at least 4 years late for the Unemployment line.
Honestly, Bear, those were my favorite teams.
Not much turnover and the infield was the same every year. Russell, Lopes, Garvey and Cey. Today is just not the same. Different era, big money, analytics with players moving often with a few exceptions. The Dodgers have had three different shortstops in three years. Two of them were all-stars.
Russell was the least heralded of the famed infield, his sidearm throws across the diamond a trademark. It was almost casual.
Yes, then came Fox, the Piazza trade, Russell and Claire leaving, Tommy’s interim GM fiasco, then Kevin Malone — mostly bad memories.
All because Peter O’Malley misread the future, thinking only big corporations could fund MLB teams.
He made things worse by not letting Claire ink Piazza to a long terms deal at around $60 million, since it was his intent to sell the team, feeling the buyers and new owners should make that decision. Had that happened Claire and Russell may have been around longer since Fox had no real interest in owning or running a baseball team.
Even good old Frank McCourt understood that wasn’t the case, but a lot of that had to do with Ned Colletti, who somehow managed to keep the team relevant, even with McCourt’s mansion buying spree and lack of actual money.
But I will say one thing positive about Frank at the end of his bankruptcy spiral, you could sit behind home plate in the loge section for a mere $12 bucks. What a deal.
Those were the days, Bear.
O’Malley kept the prices low for years and Peter followed that tradition. It was 2 dollars to sit in the pavilion. Most of the concessions were very affordable. I used to love those frozen malts. Kids could get souvenirs cheaply. On Sundays they had players signing autographs on all the levels of the stadium. Parking was 2.50. One of the reasons Peter sold the team was because of the estate taxes in California, and the fact that neither of his kids wanted to run the team.
Lasorda made two trades that meant anything, and he was the GM for all of about 3 months. Neither was a bad baseball trade. They needed a closer, Shaw fit that description. Shaw pitched in LA for four years, he is # 3 on the all time saves list for the Dodgers. Konerko was a player without a place to play. He was a first baseman and a catcher. After Fox traded Piazza, Johnson was the starting catcher. Karros was a fixture at first, so where was Konerko going to play? Konerko had been good at AAA but he had not shown that much in his short time in the majors. Lasorda didn’t have a crystal ball to tell him that six years down the road he would become one of the better power hitters in the majors. Dennys Reyes was a marginal reliever who walked too many. He finished his career 35-35 with a 4.21 ERA. Konerko didn’t really reach his potential until he turned 28. Six years after the trade. If anyone made a bad trade, it was Jim Bowden who traded Konerko the following year to the White Sox for Mike Cameron straight up.
Lasorda’s other trade was at the end of July when he sent Peter Bergeron, Ted Lilly and Wilton Guererro and a minor leaguer to the Expos for Grudzelanek, Bocachica and Carlos Perez. None of those guys were going to make a difference in where the Dodgers would finish. Gruzelanek became the regular shortstop, taking over for Vizcaino. Neither trade was a bad baseball trade.
It’s like fans keep bringing up the Dodgers sending Alvarez to the Astros for Fields. Alvarez hadn’t even played a game in the Dodgers system. How could anyone have known he would become the hitter he is now? Back when the trade was made, they did not even know where he would play on the field. He is primarily a DH. And there was no DH in the NL back then. Fields was a need. Alvarez was not.
But Konerko could play outfield, also third base. First was no doubt his best position.
Back then it wasn’t Jeff Shaw. It was Jeff “freakin” Shaw. He was constantly escaping ninth inning disasters. Lasorda thought that Shaw would put them into the playoffs. He didn’t.
And remember, Tommy didn’t understand Shaw’s contract and didn’t understand that he could walk after a trade. The Dodgers had to scramble and give him a new contract at an inflated price or lose him to free agency.
I remember an interview with Jim Bowden with a couple of MLB analysts telling Bowden he had picked Tommy’s pocket, which, of course, he did. Bowden had to trade Shaw to help clear payroll. That came from the top. But Bowden traded Konerko, later admitting that was not a great move. Seriously?
Konerko, of course, went on to a pretty good career in Chicago. The Dodgers weren’t a closer away from becoming a very good team. I seriously doubt that Claire would have made that deal. He was the top Dodgers prospect at the time.
Right after the trade to the White Sox, Konerko started putting up pretty good numbers at age 23. He just needed a chance to play regularly.
Since you brought up Alvarez, here is my problem with that deal. Farhan Zaidi made the trade with the Astros. I recall the story about how the trade happened. Okay, I was never a Zaidi fan. He had no clue who Alvarez was. Wait a minute. Aren’t you the GM or whatever his title was and you had no idea who this kid was? Are you kidding me? You just gave two million dollars to some teenage and you have no idea why the Dodgers did that. What had the scouts seen? While there are no guarantees, he was just a potential prospect, it’s not like it was $50 K.
Making it worse, the Astros knew who he was. Not Farhan, but the Houston Astros understood his potential.
Zaidi thought at first they were asking for Yadier, not Yordan. No, they weren’t trading Yadier. Too bad.
Okay, so the Dodgers made a deal for a mid level reliever who they could have gotten for an old bag of balls. He had a 6.89 ERA at the time of the trade. For the most part he pitched well for the Dodgers in relief.
But the trade gets even worse, it was Josh Fields who gave up back to back homeruns in the game two of the World Series to the Astros.
Maybe before making the trade, Zaidi might have made a few calls to find out why the Astros had targeted Alvarez and why the Dodgers had handed him $2 million bucks to sign. I would have been very curious as to why the Astros asked for a specific player the Dodgers had just signed. Not three or four potential trade prospects, but one specific player. What did they know and why didn’t we.
Now potential is potential until it’s not. But two million is not chump change, even in baseball’s pursuit of international prospects.
I’m glad Farhan moved on to the Giants.
Konerko played exactly 18 games in the outfield in his career, so nope, he was no outfielder. I still think the criticism of Lasorda is a little over the top. Tommy had never been in the front office in his life. The bigger mistake was making him the GM.
I’m with Bear on this one. The Alvarez trade was a pure lotto win for the Astros. Nobody saw that coming. $2M is absolutely nothing in the international market. Yadier was signed for $15m and the Dodgers paid a $15m penalty for that signing. So they were in to him for $30M+. I saw him pitch in Rancho and he had ridiculous stuff. He just turned out to have mental health issues and zero work ethic. We also spent north of $100m signing several other players from Cuba. One we traded for Matt Kemp and shortly thereafter he was charged with domestic violence and hasn’t played professional baseball since. Two other infielders got around $30m each and they too aren’t even playing baseball anymore. Yusniel Diaz was the key chip in the trade for Machado. He was signed for around $15m. Last I checked he’s back with the Dodgers stuck in AA.
The Dodgers singed half a dozen other international players around that same time for $15m to $60m each. And they have collectively contributed zero to the Dodgers. But management was somehow suppose to know that the kid they signed for $2m was a sure thing. If any MLB scout had seen significant potential in Alvarez he would have signed for much much more. Like the other Cuban players the Dodgers overpaid to sign over other teams. $2m might be a lot for a player acquired in the draft. It’s nothing in the international market. The equivalent to a 4th or 5th round pick. Trading a 5th round pick with zero pro experience for a proven relief pitcher would not be considered a questionable trade. Astros got lucky. It’s as simple as that.
Word!
Boring ass manager tho
Russell? Never really had much of a chance to prove himself. Did not have the job long enough to really know what he could do. Bad time to manage the team.
For those who still don’t rate Bruce Bochy
https://www.mlb.com/news/bruce-bochy-leads-3rd-franchise-to-world-series
Bochy has had success in the post season, but that does not mean he is a great manager. His players did the work. I never thought Casey Stengel was a great manager, but he won 7 World Series. Bochy is under .500 for his career as a manager during the regular season. He has had 5 seasons of getting to the playoffs out of 26 seasons as a manager. What happened the other 21 years? His average finish was 3rd place over his career. By comparison, Lasorda’s teams finished first 8 times in 21 years. 5 other times he finished 2nd. Alston’s teams finished in first 7 times and second 8 times in 23 seasons. Alston has four titles. Bochy is a good leader, and he goes by what he sees. But you do not win without talent. Or having a player have the postseason of his life.
Must just be a lucky coincidence then.
Luck of the draw. You get one player that plays out of their minds, and you can win. In the 2010 NLCS it was Cody Ross, in the series against the Rangers, it was Edgar Renteria. In 2012 it was the Panda, and in 2014, it was Bumgarner who pulled a Hershiser and was MVP in the NLCS and the World Series. After that, until this year with a loaded Texas team, how come he never finished first again? His managing did not make those Padres teams winners. That 94 team had great pitching. and they had some pretty decent hitters. How different would this postseason have been had the Dodgers handled Gallen and Kelly like they have their entire careers? Kelly was 0-11. Gallen was 1-4. You have a player that is hot, or more than one, that has nothing to do with the managers moves. Leo Durocher, considered by some as a very good manager won one title in all his years on the bench. Now Sparky Anderson was a great manager. He took two teams to the World Series and won titles with both. But in the long run, it is the players who win the games. All the manager does is put them in a position to perform. That’s just my opinion. I think managers get too much credit when a team wins and too much blame when they lose.
Your opinion is laughable. You come off as the guy who argues with anyone about everything and anything.
I argue a lot it is true. But everything said here is just opinion. My opinion may be laughable to you, but it is based on watching the game as long as I have. No manager is perfect. They make bad in game decisions and sometimes good ones. Sometimes they are purely lucky. But performance is always on the players. There are a lot of opinions on here I don’t agree with, but I respect each person’s right to express it.
Looks like Dusty Baker is going to step down from managing the Astroholes.
He’d be the perfect guy to straighten out the Padres mess, but it seems as though he may just retire.
Preller / Baker would be must-watch TV for me.
I think managers do way more than just fill out lineup cards. Some have the ability to instill confidence in their players much better than others on the biggest stages. Create a winning camaraderie that affects the psyche of the whole team and some can be detrimental in the opposite. Of course talent is main factor. Mark can call me stupid all he wants but in my opinion where Roberts used to have that ability has lost it in recent years come playoffs
Wait. Michael, are you saying Roberts is good or bad at camaraderie??
That is the most wild-ass, circular-thinking false narrative I have ever heard. I don’t think you are stupid – I think you are clinically insane and I am trying to be kind! Somehow it is up to the manager to create a “winning camaraderie” for a team that has won 100 games and clenched early, but he needs to instill confidence?
They have spent seven months getting ready for a chance to go to the World Series, and the players have no clue what they need to do? Dave Roberts should have had a pajama party with roasted Smores over a campfire, and watched Rocky movies?
You are starting with the false narrative that it has to be the manager’s fault. Then you just fill the rest in and can come full circle back to the fact that it was Doc’s fault! Presto! You just proved it.
Perhaps Doc should have explained that they should hit more and pitch better? The Dunbass failed! He forgot to tell them that they needed to hit better and pitch better.
Of all the people to blame (Starts with Friedman, Betts, Martinez, Kershaw, Miller, Lynn), Roberts is way down on the list!
I’m saying that Roberts used to be more able to create a winning attitude come playoffs you know going to WS regularly but recently has lost touch with getting his team pumped ready and confident when it counts the most. Of course can blame it on five day layoff or other things but I don’t believe in excuses
Also not saying we had the pitching to go all the way this year but should have never got embarrassed like that. Two years in a row now which I’m having a hard time comprehending
I don’t think you are stupid.
Reality is what you have a hard time with.
Both teams in the World Series are Wild Cards.
When was the last time that happened?
Its a Postseason tournament now.
MLB Has devalued the regular season. When 3 100 teams go 1-9 in the postseason, that’s not a coincidence….
Any team can get hot for a 3 week period…thats been proven.
One of these years coming up will be our 3 week hot streak….
Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!
The Dodgers don’t have a problem getting to the playoffs, but advancing is another story. They need starting pitching that won’t implode in the playoffs and AF said his priority is pitching.
Of the 5 free agent starting pitching names that have been mentioned here a lot. Flaherty, Giolito, Montgomery, Nola, Yamamoto. After giving more weight to their career playoff stats than their regular season stats (The stats I look at). I would rank them like this:
1 Yamamoto – I do worry about his production out of the country translating to production in MLB. But his stats are FAR better than the rest of the 4.
2 Nola – Pending, because he’s still pitching.
3 Montgomery – Pending, because he’s still pitching.
4 Flaherty
5 Giolito – I wouldn’t even consider him.
If I were AF, I’d get Yamamoto, Nola, and Hader. Also keep some key Dodgers pitchers that are free agents. S. Miller, Treinen, D. Hudson, Reyes and call it a pitching staff. Only S. Miller doesn’t have a club option.
Thinking outside the box, I would go to a 6 man rotation for 3 reasons. 1) So nobody’s arm falls off. 2) To keep them less worn out for the playoffs. 3) To give all of B. Miller, Pepiot, Sheehan their shots at starting. Considering Beuhler will probably be back.
And can you imagine (if possible) a bullpen of Hader, Brasier, Phillips, S. Miller, Graterol, and any two of these guys: D. Hudson, Treinen, Feyereisen, Reyes. Talk about lockdown.
You wouldn’t need to score a lot of runs with that pitching staff. No need for Ohtani.
My partial position players (13) Smith, Feduccia, Freeman, Lux, Betts, Muncy, Outman, DeLuca, Taylor, Busch, ?, ?, ?. One of those ? needs to be a platoon partner with DeLuca, definitely not named Peralta and I’m 50/50 on Heyward.
Forget about the luxury tax. As some here have said, the fans are pretty ticked off right about now.
On another note:
I’m glad the Asstros got knocked out for an obvious reason and glad for Seager. I’m rooting for the Phillies (because Arizona knocked out the Dodgers) until the World Series when I’ll be rooting for the Rangers.
Not a fan of Hader. With very few exceptions, he only wants to pitch in the 9 th inning. Thus past year, with the Padres in badly need of a win to keep their playoff hopes alive, he didn’t want to come in the 8th inning. The pitcher who did come in blew the game.
Can’t stand the guy. Just seems like he is in the game for himself.
There has to be some reason why Giolito went from a very good pitcher to just horrible. I am of the mind that it could be simply mechanical. He has great stuff. And he is still young. He is one pitcher they could get pretty cheap because he might want to rebuild his reputation, and unlike Thor, I think he would be receptive to suggestions. Prior is very good at finding that kind of thing. If he doesn’t cost a lot, I think he would be worth a shot.
IF AF can sign him as an undervalued asset, he will.
I have to agree Bear! Some managers get far too much credit, others not enough. Personally, I always thought Joe Torre was way overrated! a manager of egos? Yes a great tactician? No way. Now I do think MLB managers are way superior to NBA coaches. I think the majority of NBA coaches are a joke, along with the WWE officials they have! I like Bochy, but his teams got hot at the right time, and he didn’t get in their way. I thought Kapler might make a good manager, then I watched! not so much. hate the d backs or not, Lovullo has done a good job. And for everyone wanting Doc gone, they would find another “Doc” probably not as good as the “Doc” they have!
Walt Alston was as laid back as they come. But he controlled his clubhouse and there was rarely an argument from a player. He was a heavy believer in platooning players and did so both in LA and Brooklyn. Lasorda was 180 degrees from Alston. He had a mercurial temper, but he could also motivate better than most managers I have ever seen. Bochy seems to be from the Alston school of managing. He sits back and lets his players do the work. But one difference, whereas Doc will leave a guy in because he trusts them, Bochy uses what he is seeing as a guide. If there is one huge fault I find in Roberts, it is sometimes, not all the time mind you, but sometimes leaving a pitcher in the game too long because he has delivered in the past. Kersh was in trouble from the get-go in game one. Lynn had surrendered three homers, and he let him give up #4. Lasorda would have pulled him after 2.
In September, Bruce Bocy’s team went 15-13, barely making the Wild Card.
In one three game series against the Astros, his pitchers gave up 39 runs in 3 games!
He let Josh Sborz give up 6 runs in .2 IP. The next day he let Eovaldi give up 4 runs in an inning and followed that by allowing Dunning to give up 9 runs in 5 IP.
The next day, he let Scherzer in for 3 IP while he was pounded for 7 runs. In that same game, he let Burke give up 4 runs in 1 IP.
Bochy also trusts his players and has seen them give up 4 runs in an inning many times. It’s part luck that these same players have been outstanding in the playoffs… or maybe he just told them to do better? Yeah, that’s the ticket!
My point exactly. Nobody would be talking about any of this had the Dodgers shown any signs of offense. They outscored Arizona during the season by almost 30 runs in the 13 games. Most of the losses came early in the year. You are not going to win many games when your two best hitters are a combined 1-21. Kike, Rojas and Smith were the only three who did anything. JD hit the only homer. Az hit 9. The Dodgers hit 20 homers against Az during the regular season, 3 of them came from Thompson. Az hit 8 all year against LA.
Bob Melvin will be named manager of the Giants in the next couple of days. A great hire for the Giants.
Mark if you don’t think managers have a lot to do with motivation your the one clinically insane. Players feed off their leaders and trust me I already knew you’d get down to petty little childish name calling when anyone thinks anything negative of Roberts. Personally I think most of your opinions are dog crap but I’m not gonna sink to the level of calling you a moran. I agree with dodger dad they just find another Roberts type, I’d call a company puppet and everyone deserves a trophy type
Robert’s forte is supposed to be communication. Lasorda, he was a motivator. Alston was laid back and so was Torre. But you knew who was in charge.
I find it interesting that you think my opinions are dog crap, and yet you come back.
You probably won’t watch this either, but Colin Cowherd nailed it:
I’m not here for your opinions. I like to hear what fellow dodger fans have to say also have a lot of respect for bear even if we have disagreements. Also think colin cowherd is a narcissistic complete idiot who’s opinion I got no respect for
Only thing I know about Bochy is it seems his teams always get hot when it matters most
So, Bouchy isn’t a moran?
I do have to apologize to everyone because I simply have a low threshold for bloodthirsty, nonsensical idiots. It’s a weakness I have.
I have no horse hitched to Dave Roberts. Fire him. I don’t really care. After all, he was 1-21 in his At-Bats in the Playoffs, right? It was really Doc, not Mookie and Freddie.
Show me any sport where your top two superstars totally fail and I will show you a losing team – every time. You don’t have to look any further.
Not a big fan of Doc, but I don’t hate him either. But anyone that thinks it’s his fault Well, there’s just no hope for them.
Players go, hot and cold, and theirs plenty of examples , no need to name them.
Having said that, if Mookie and Freddie continue they’re ice cold slump next year, if we get there, then I would think it’s something in their psyche that’s got a hold of them.
So it won’t matter who the manager is, will need a hypnotist or an exorcist or maybe they could hire Tony Robbins to be the bench coach
Maybe we can hire Trump as our new manager. He seems able to get people fired up! Surely he could single handedly lose 10 games for us to get to the magic 90 win wild card mark