Here we go again!
Sandy Koufax pitched 57 Post-Season Innings, while Clayton has pitched 194 iPost-Season innings to date (notice that I left the door cracked open for more). That is a lot more exposure; Sandy’s ERA was 0.95, while Clayton’s is 4.22. Clayton won 13 games in the playoffs while losing 12. Sandy won four while losing three. Somehow some belive that Koufax won 40 World Series games.
However, Sandy and Clayton pitched in different ERAs. Consider this:
- When Sandy pitched, the Pitcher’s Mound was 15 inches. This enables a pitcher to gain momentum as they stride down towards the plate, allowing them to throw faster and with more control than if they were at a lower level. Clayton pitches from a lower plane.
- The Strike Zone was much larger when Sandy pitched than it is now. In Koufax’s time, the strike zone was “from the top of the batter’s shoulders to the knees.” Then, from 1969 to 1987, the strike zone went from “the batter’s armpits to the top of the knees.” From 1988 to 1995, the rule changed again, and the strike zone went from “the midpoint between the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants to the top of the knees.” Then, in 1996, according to official MLB rules, “the STRIKE ZONE is that area over home plate, the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap.”
- Scouting, Video, and Analytics have forever changed the game. Hitters now have a better understanding of where and what pitchers will throw at any given point.
- The Koufax Dodgers did not have to play the Cheating AssTros!
- Sandy Koufax’s exposure in the playoffs was limited to the World Series at a time when only two teams made the playoffs. Clayton Kershaw has pitched in the World Series, NLDS, NLCS, and the Wild Card Playoff. Let’s look at Koufax and Kershaw Head-to-Head:
The two biggest disparities are Complete Games, where Koufax had 137 and Kershaw had just 25. The sheer number of complete games thrown by Sandy Koufax certainly contributed to his arm falling off at age 30. Also, there is a big disparity in number of All-Star Games and ERA+. Perhaps the most useful statistics are ERA and ERA+. For those of you who do not know the difference, here is what MLB says about them:
Adjusted Earned Run Average (ERA+)
— MLB Editorial Staff
Definition:
ERA+ takes a player’s ERA and normalizes it across the entire league. It accounts for external factors like ballparks and opponents. It then adjusts, so a score of 100 is league average, and 150 is 50 percent better than the league average.
For example, Mariano Rivera’s 2.21 career ERA was 105 percent better than the MLB average during the time he pitched (including adjustments for park and league). That gives him a 205 career ERA+ (the best all-time).
The formula
League ERA, adjusted for park factors x 100 / ERA.
Why it’s useful
ERA is the most universally accepted tool for measuring the performance of a pitcher. But ERA+ attempts to level the playing field for all pitchers by adjusting for the impact their home ballpark had on their performance.
This section was created by the MLB.com editorial staff for fan entertainment and education, and was not officially provided by Major League Baseball.
In writing this, I was shocked to learn that (using ERA+) Sandy was 37% better than the league-average pitcher adjusted to the parks he pitched in while Clayton was 57% better than league-average based upon the parks he pitched in. Koufax benefited by not having other teams have the benefit of statistical analysis, scouting, and video iPads during the games. Clayton benefited from advanced modern medical and training techniques.
Sandy Koufax was the greatest Dodger pitcher EVER during the five to six-year domination right before he retired. He was an All-Star six times. Clayton was the greatest Dodger over his entire career, being an All-Star ten times and still being one in what is likely his last season. At his zenith, Sandy Koufax was the G.O.A.T., but Clayton Kershaw is the Dodger’s G.O.A.T. because of his excellent over sixteen seasons, not just six!
That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it. Feel free to disagree.
Dodger News & Notes
- James Outman is a lock for at least 20 HRs… probably more. If he can cut down on his strikeouts, he’s an All-Star.
- Ryan Yarbrough will go on Patennity leave today, and Gavin Stone will allegedly start tonight.
- Clayton Kershaw is being pushed to Friday, but he’s fine. Yeah, Right!
- The team thinks they have JDM’s back problems figured out and under control and Peralta is sore but should be OK after a HBP!
Down on the Farm
- OKC beat Sugar Land 4-1. Hunter Feduccia was 2-4, and Alex Gamboa (2.57 ERA) got his 1st save. He is a LHP that the Dodgers need to protect, or he will get snatched up in Rule 5.
- Tulsa lost 4-3. Kendall Williams went 5.2 innings and allowed just 1 ER. Austin Gauthier was 2-4.
- GL won 4-1. Dalton Rushing was 2-4, and Jared Karros went four innings and allowed three hits with no runs.
- RC beat Viasalia 8-6. Jake Gelof hit his 5th HR
Different times, comparisons not valid. This has been beaten to death thousands of times. But no one is going to change their minds.
On other hand. Hoping for an exciting playoff run THIS YEAR
Gelof is a guy.
Possibly a top ten bat in system.
Before the Draft, he was rated at #35.
Kendall George was ranked #68, but the Dodgers took him first and then got Gelof as well.
George has a lot of projection, but Gelof is already a stud.
Gelof’s brother is playing great as a rookie for the As. A good sign, I think.
If baby bro keeps this up, would the Dodgers consider fast-tracking him? He plays 3B, a position of concern. If he fields better than Vargas and Busch, he may be the best 3B prospect in the farm system. Perhaps Gelof could get to Tulsa next season.
Gasparino and his crew have a (mostly) great track record, and so far both Kendall George and Geloff look like winners.
All-prospect lineup:
George CF
De Paulo LF
Rushing 1B
Pages RF
Cartaya C
Geloff 3B
Liranzo DH
Jeondry Vargas SS
Vivas 2B
I like it
Unfortunately, the Dodger’s GOAT pitching debate does not include Pedro Martinez.
Worst. Trade. Ever.
The pitching situation right now is pretty damn shaky. But it’s also exciting. I fully expect we’ll relying a damaged a , alleged GOAT, at least two rookies and Lance (Gopher Ball) Lynn. It will be a high-wire act.
The bats, though, seem ready. Mookie and Freddie are having career years. Will is getting the rest he needs. Max, Outman, Taylor and Heyward are heating up. Rosario and Kike provide useful options. Even Rojas had four hits the other day–and Barnes had two hits and a sacrifice fly.
Pedro was right there with them. Clayton had a better ERA, WHIP, ERA+, etc, but Pedro was a Run Lower in ERA during the playoffs.
Mark, you going to to to MKE if we should meet them in the Division Series?
And Let’s pump the brakes on Kershaw’s demise. I heard the same stuff after 2021…..
Depends upon when it is.
You did not hear anything about Kershaw’s demise from me… until now.
October 11 and 12.
I have nothing scheduled, so it looks good.
Yeah I am targeting that as well. Im sick of going to Atlanta…..plus ive never been to Milwaukee.
So if it happens im going to try to go.
I did Miller Park back in 2003, when the Dodgers were there.
Nomo pitched a shutout, and McGriff hit a grand slam. But the people there were great; everyone was friendly and offered us a beer when they found out we were from out of town.
Honestly, you can’t compare eras.
Then you had to go bring up Pedro Martinez. I hated the trade when they made it. Yes, no question, Worst Trade Ever, all based on projection and a lot of bad opinions.
Good comparison of Kershaw and Koufax. Both great pitchers.
I have to confess I liked the trade at the time. I figured, like the Dodgers, that Ramon was better, and Delino might be the new Maury Wills.
Personally think that Yarborough will be pivotal in the Post Season and could prove to be the best Trade Deadline pick up.
I know it wasn’t a popular opinion when I mentioned a few months ago that we shouldn’t be expecting too much from CK this season and was told that he was in Cy Young form etc – yet here we are – not expecting too much from CK!
Other than now having continued problems staying on the field, he has not got a great Post Season record anyway, and regardless of what anyone tells me (forget the stats), I can see with my own eyes that he is not the Pitcher of old, and therefore I personally would rather the Dodgers shut him down, and took him out of the equation.
Having him around seems to muddy the waters – let the youngsters free – they’re good.
I’m always amazed when I read stuff about giving him another deal on whatever terms he wants as a kind of loyalty bonus – I don’t get it?
It’s a business – use the money to get another Starter.
BTW – he’s my favourite Dodger of all time so I don’t say this lightly.
Time to move on.
Really excited about our chances, I think we will beat Atlanta i if we get them in NLCS
I agree with you about Yarborough. I have more faith in him than I do in Lynn.
So Miller, Pepiot, Yarborough and Sheehan could be our post season rotation. I think the difference in velocity would give opposing teams trouble.
I thought the head to head comparison between Sandy and Clayton was fun and interesting. Most of us know that the different times make any comparisons invalid. But it’s not like the winner of the comparison gets a gold crown or a better exhibit in Cooperstown. For me it’s fun to take a deeper look into their career stats without trying to force anyone into one camp of the other. It’s fun to get a close look at the similarities and differences. – Thanks. Good read.
Yarborough could be a valuable piece especially since Vesia and V-Gon haven’t been effective against LHB. I thought his start was good and he moved ahead of Lynn as a starter in my book. He is a “crafty” LHP and a comfortable of’er.
His effectiveness creates and interesting scenario. Maybe CK could get his work in as a 2 inning relief pitcher until the playoffs and see how that goes. Ryan can pick up the starts. Come playoff time, Miller and Pepiot are the 2 starters with the 3rd job up for grabs.
Just a different plan to consider.
Does Yarborough remind anyone else of Tyler Anderson, or is it just me?
I think he can keep guys off balance for 3-4 innings in Oct, and then we replace that with a hard thrower like Stone, Pep, etc.
Yarbrough – Anderson. Yup, had the same thought.
Using him in tandem with a hard throwing right hander sounds good to me, in whatever order they feel might be most effective.
I like the idea of starting with Kershaw for 2-3 innings, then bringing in RH Grove for 2-3 innings and finishing with Yarbrough.
Just noticed that the Dodgers are playing the Padres.
Gee, back in the spring, this seemed like it might be an important series…
Disaster of a franchise, just like the Chargers.
Go Rams!
Kersh is great. I still would take Sandy in a must win game. His last two years he pitched in pain. Had he the same medical care they get now, who knows. But it is what it is. Kersh is working with Prior on changes that will allow him to be more efficient. We will see how that works out.
OK, so let me change the question:
In a must-win game, you pick Sandy, and I pick Clayton. However, the other person gets to pick the Kershaw of Koufax of a particular year. In a five-year span, Sandy was otherworldly, but he pitched for seven other seasons. What if you did not get to pick one of those five seasons?
Still take Koufax. He gave up six total earned runs in 8 World Series games. I saw him pitch before and after he had that six-year stretch. But he actually started to get close to that potential in 1958. In 59 he struck out 18 Giants in a game. Yeah, it took him a while to find himself, and Norm Sherry helped him immensely. But on any given day, you felt he could go out and do something really spectacular. His stretch of excellence started in 1961 when he went 18-13. Had he had a little more offensive help, he would have won 20 easily. But the Dodgers were not very good. In 62 and 64 he had injuries that shortened his season. He still managed to win 14 and 19 games. I have never felt that way with Kersh on the mound and even less so the last few years. Kersh, like Sutton before him, has the stats he has because of longevity, and consistency. Koufax dominated lineups with to my mind, better hitters. Maybe not better athletes, but much better hitters. None of this three true outcome crap. Players today have better nutrition, training facilities and medical help. They dealt with Sandy’s arthritis with injections and ice treatments. Kershaw is the best of his era. But on any given day, give me Sandy every time. Koufax would make 99% of today’s hitters look silly with his curveball.
I guess I’m the only one here who thinks there’s a decent chance that Kershaw will be an asset for the playoffs. I don’t know why everyone is so anxious to usher him off the playing field.
Yes, he’s had two lousy starts since he’s returned, but I think it may very well be mechanics more than the shoulder, as Prior has stated. I’m willing to let them do whatever they need to between now and the end of the year in the hopes that we’ll have some semblance of the real CK come playoff time. After all, what do we have to lose? We don’t need him to help us win the division. That’s pretty much already done.
Clayton, if you’re reading this, I give you the following advice (author unknown):
“If someone says you can’t do it, do it twice…………..and take pictures.”
DEfine “asset” – I think he could pitch 2 to 3 innings and be effective, but that is it… UNLESS HE MAGICALLY RECOVERS 3-5 MPH on his fastball.
Agree – But if CK by the playoffs is no better than he looked in his last outing, then even just 2-3 innings from him may be too big of a gamble.
Why would he suddenly have problems with mechanics?? He is well rested and watched all the time. Unless he has to make some adjustment to compensate for some health issue.
And yes I KNOW we don’t know (and will never know) the full story until he is done.
I believe in Kersh. I am also reserving judgement until I see him pitch again. Until then, it is all speculation. No one here or on any other blog in the Dodger sphere has any idea what the problem is, and if it can be fixed. But I totally trust Mark Prior.
Some kid on the mound for the Padres tonight, then we get Wacha and Snell. I stand corrected, Kersh’s next start is Friday, but in Seattle.
Biggest series of the year. If Padres sweep we’ll only be up by 18 games on them!
😉
Sunday scores
Oklahoma City 4, Sugar Land 1
Springfield 4, Tulsa 3 (10 innings)
Great Lakes 4, West Michigan 1
Rancho Cucamonga 8, Visalia 6
The week ahead
Playoffs
Midwest League East Division Series
Great Lakes vs. Fort Wayne (Padres)
Game 1: Tuesday at Fort Wayne
Game 2: Thursday at Great Lakes, 4:05 p.m. PT
Game 3: Friday at Great Lakes, 4:05 p.m. PT*
California League South Division Series
Rancho Cucamonga vs. Inland Empire (Angels)
Game 1: Tuesday at Inland Empire, 6:35 p.m.
Game 2: Thursday at Rancho Cucamonga, 6:30 p.m.
Game 3: Friday at Great Rancho Cucamonga, 6:30 p.m.*
Regular season
Oklahoma City vs. Tacoma (Mariners)
Tulsa vs. Corpus Christi (Astros)
DODGER MAGIC NUMBER NOW 7
I remember when Kershaw first came up. I have seen him pitch 97-98 MPH at times.
It is wishful thinking to believe he is having mechanical issues.
He has a shoulder issue. How bad? We do not know.
I suspect that he may also need TJ.
Would he want to take 18 months off and get both surgeries done? He could pitch into his 40s, but if anyone thinks he is going to be any more than an “opener” -they are fooling themselves.
There is a better chance that Lance Lynn never gives up a playoff homer run than Clayton being Clayton.
Can someone post the lineup?. Still not available
DODGERS PRESS RELEASE
DODGERS RECALL GAVIN STONE
LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles Dodgers have recalled right-handed pitcher Gavin Stone and placed right-handed pitcher Wander Suero on the injured list with lower back tightness.
Stone, 24, returns for his fourth stint with the Dodgers and he is 0-0 with a 10.50 ERA (21 ER/18.0 IP) and 10 strikeouts in five games (three starts). With Triple-A Oklahoma City, he was 7-4 with a 4.74 ERA (53 ER/100.2 IP) and 120 strikeouts in 21 games (19 starts). Last season, he was named the 2022 Dodgers Branch Rickey Pitcher of the Year after going a combined 9-6 with a 1.48 ERA (20 ER/121.2 IP) and 168 strikeouts between High-A Great Lakes, Double-A Tulsa and Triple-A Oklahoma City. The Arkansas native has been in the Dodger system since being drafted in the 5th round of the 2020 First Year Player Draft out of the University of Central Arkansas and he is a combined 18-12 with a 3.19 ERA (111 ER/313.1 IP) and 426 strikeouts.
Suero, 31, pitched 1.1 innings on Sunday afternoon, allowing one run on two hits. He is now 1-0 with a 7.88 ERA (7 ER/8.0 IP) and nine strikeouts in five games with the Dodgers. With Triple-A Oklahoma City, he was 5-3 with a 3.40 ERA (18 ER/47.2 IP) with 51 strikeouts and was 16-for-19 in save chances. He has been in the Major Leagues parts of four seasons with Washington (2018-2021) and Los Angeles (2023) and he is a combined 14-13 with a 4.73 ERA (101 ER/192.0 IP) and 207 strikeouts in 188 Major League games. He was originally signed by the Washington Nationals as an amateur free agent out of Sabana Larga, Dominican Republic on February 2, 2010.
He didn’t last long.
FYI: Milwaukee is a great place to watch a game.
IF, we must pitch Clayton (who is my favorite Dodger) in the playoffs, then the best bet is to have an opener that gets the first 3 opposition hitters out and slip in Kershaw for innings 2 and 3. Love his leadership for the playoffs but have angst over his velocity these days. Set him up to contribute where he has the best chance at success if he’s going to pitch in the post season. I’m on record suggesting we rely on the kids this fall. We’ll see what happens and may the big Dodger in the sky look favorably on these lads!
I thought I’d share. Not sure if this has been shared previously.
A good friend (hard core Cubs fan) asked me if I’d rather have Freddie Freeman or Mat Olson. My only response was this video.
Right now. And all year. The Padres have been a better team on paper. Yet, they are 21 games back.
This is why.
https://youtu.be/pGaCo5o6E8M?si=cK4OKoyff9xVSBtx
WOW!!
A rare back to back fail by Mookie and Freddie with bags full
But not next time
I read the news today, oh boy:
https://twitter.com/NASAWebb/status/1701236204581122258
If the Dodgers lose this game, they should be ashamed.
If one team pitches, hits, and fields better than the other team in a game, then they’re better that game and deservedly have won it.
I disagree. When you lead 7-2 and have a pitcher or team on the ropes, you still play hard. The RISP crap jumped up and bit them again. Two bad plays in the 9th did not help. They make those two plays, the Pads do not score in the 9th. It is not about deserving the win, it is about having the win given to you on a golden platter.
I hate losing to this team too. But Stone certainly looked like he pitched and played as “hard” as he could, but just wasn’t good enough to hold the lead and stop the Friars from getting back in the game. And the rest of what you wrote only explains why they played better than the Dodgers in this game and deserved to win it. Besides, the Dodgers haven’t played well enough this month to warrant being “ashamed” of losing to anyone right now.
The Dodgers haven’t played well enough of late to be ashamed of losing this game or any game.
Hate losing to the Padres. But the Dodgers battled to the last pitch. I like what I see in terms of their motivation.
I generally defend some players flipping a bat on a HR. If it’s meaningful. Emotions take over. I like the intensity.
That said, Juan Soto flipping his bat 20 feet in the air in a game…in September…against the team you are 21 games behind? Tells me all I need to know.
Good job Juan. You get a gold star for being the skinniest kid at fat camp.
I did like the Dodgers battling at the end, but the two error in the ninth…. ugh.
This team has to play solid defense to win in the postseason, especially since every team in the playoffs will be better than the Padres. Either that, or make Brasier pitch and pitch and pitch some more. Striking out Tatis, Soto and Machado was pretty sweet.
Meanwhile, a baseball YouTuber has suggested that Padres will unload Soto and deal for Trout. I think he was half right. What will the Padres get for Soto?
He will be in his walk year. They might get more if they deal him this winter. But if they wait, he would be a rental. I would think the package would be a lot smaller than what they gave up, but maybe a top 10 prospect and maybe two lower-level prospects. Angels said they would consider trading Trout if he requested it. Dodgers said to be one of maybe five teams who will be chasing Ohtani this winter.
How ashamed will we be in October?
Very!
Got that right. I hate losing to that bunch of prima donna’s.
Well, at least considering their present state of affairs, Roberts should be safe from the shame of criticisms when the Dodgers lose in the playoffs. Ha.
Their SP in disarray, Fergy still unreliable, Kelly still iffy on his return, and even Phillips showing some cracks. Just 19 games left to wave a magic wand and remedy all this. Good luck with that.
Losing an entire starting rotation is a lot to overcome even for the Dodgers! We haven’t been so successful as favorites so maybe we can back door this October
Yes, the Dodgers will go into the playoffs as underdogs, relying on at least two rookies; a damaged GOAT; and a big dude who gives up too much homers. The Dodgers might even need to throw a bullpen game or two.
On the plus side, the offense has been impressive, with some key guys starting to click. Over the past 15 days, seven regulars have an OPS above .844–and Freddie is the seventh. (Sort of a mini-slump for Freddie.) Platoon guys Heyward and Taylor have hit .997 and .981 respectively, and JDM has come back from injury at .912. The one regular who actually is slumping a bit is Will Smith–and Roberts should gives him more rest over these last few weeks before the postseason starts.
With 19 games to go, some guys have already put up very impressive numbers. Back in Spring, I think most of us would be happy if a time-traveler told us Mookie, batting leadoff, finished the season with .313 BA, 39 HRs, 37 doubles, 119 Runs Scored and 99 RBI, and that Freddie would bat .335. score 117 runsknow and set a franchise record with 54 doubles; and that Max would reach 35 HRs for the fourth time, and knock in 97 runs. All of these “counting stats” should grow over the next 19 games.
With the pitching shaky, the Dodgers will have to rely more on their offense and gloves. Today it was mostly the gloves that failed them.
Correction : the numbers cited for Heyward, Taylor and JDM cover the last 30 days, not 15. Their OPS for the last 15 were better–over 1.000 for each guy.
With all the injuries and issues with the starting rotation and rookies filling,in , the Dodgers will be lucky to win one playoff series. The offense will have to come up big for even that to happen. It’s been a very good year considering. Lots of money coming off the books in 2024 and I’m sure AF will have a better chance to win the trophy then, Lots of positive things happened this year and it was exciting to watch.