I will start this diatribe by saying that this epic fail will possibly cost Dave Roberts his job, but that is not the biggest part of the problem. The bigger problem lies in the office of Andrew Friedman. He is the President of Baseball Operations, and the buck stops with him. I have been a champion of Andrew since he was hired. I have defended him against many assaults on his methods by numerous fans. Andrew Friedman has built a juggernaut and what may be the best farm system in baseball. I am not calling for his firing, but I am calling for change. It’s time… actually, past time.
My son texted me at the end of the game:
“I’m just glad Vin Scully didn’t have to see this crap.”
This is the worst loss in Dodger Baseball History! There is no way to sugar-coat this. This is a train wreck! It appears that this team thought they were so great because all season long, they were told just that, that all they had to do was show up and sleepwalk through the playoffs. I am not going to dwell on this epic disaster. Bill Plaschke said it well. This is the worst loss in Dodger history, but it doesn’t surprise us. We have all seen the Dodgers go into Pittsburgh and get swept by the terrible Pirates. It seems like they all hit, or nobody hits. It seems like they have a series of games where nothing works, and hitting with RISP is the most difficult thing.
I am not about rehashing blame or pointing the finger at every epic failure in the process. I am about finding solutions. A great man once said, “If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.” So, I am going to address what the problems are and focus on the solutions. It will be up to Andrew Friedman to execute.
The Hitting Coaches
Robert Van Scoyoc has been the head hitting coach for the past four years, and Brandt Brown and Aaron Bates have been his assistants. During that time, the Dodgers have been at or near the top of the league in hitting. The Dodgers led all of baseball in 2022 with RISP with a batting average of .272. This postseason it was .147! Same Players – Different Result. It’s not easy to figure out why that is, but it is! Andrew Friedman is going to have to take a long hard look at the hitting coaches and decide if they bear a degree of responsibility in this humiliation.
Struggling Hitters
Max Muncy struggled most of the regular season but was one of the better hitters in the playoffs. However, he frequently failed to drive in runners. Chris Taylor had seven at-bats in the playoffs and struck out in five of them. Cody Bellinger had seven at-bats and struck out in four of them. Trayce Thompson had thirteen at-bats and struck out seven times. Justin Turner looked helpless, and Joey Gallo was not even called upon to hit. The biggest failure, however, was Mookie Betts, who hit .143. It has been said that as Mookie goes, so go the Dodgers. It’s no surprise that the Dodgers were humiliated when Mookie is shut-down. It was exacerbated by the fact that Justin Turner did not show up.
I think it is time to re-evaluate the situation. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and thinking you will get a different result. I think the hitting coaches should go and be replaced with some other coach. Maybe there are too many voices. Maybe the Dodgers should not offer arbitration to Cody Bellinger. Joey Gallo is as good as gone. Chris Taylor and his nearly 50% strikeout rate pales in comparison to his versatility! The Dodgers need more players who strike out less than they walk, which brings me to Miguel Vargas. He is that player, but Andrew Friedman seems to hold players back rather than promote them.
Player Development
I see James Outman as a 4th outfielder, not an everyday player, but when he came up and was hot, why not let him play twenty or thirty games? Maybe he will be more than what I think. However, he struck out 32% of the time in the minors last year. One would expect that to tick up in the Show. He may be a useful reserve, but he is not the solution. Mike Busch is another player who will hit some home runs but strike out at an alarming rate. The Dodgers need hitters like Vargas with the big club.
Stress on the Bullpen
Let’s get this straight: the Dodgers had enough pitching, but poor defense and deployment were the problems. Nothing illustrates that more than taking Tyler Anderson out after five innings. He needed to go six, but Andrew Friedman’s teams have the idea that five is enough. This is on Andrew, not Doc.
The Solution
- Let Justin Turner retire as a Dodger;
- Do not tender Cody Bellinger;
- Let Gallo go
- Unless Trea Turner accepts a dealer smaller than Seager, forget it;
- Include CT3 in a trade (pay half his salary) for Bryan Reynolds (Mike Busch, Andy Pages, and Ryan Pepiot are the headliners);
- Promote Vargas and Stone; and
- Sign some role-players who fit the profile.
Tell me this lineup would have been worse than the current one:
- Lux 2B (another year of experience under his belt – he’s ready)
- Betts RF
- Freeman 1B
- Smith C
- Muncy 3B (he’s here for 2023)
- Vargas LF (it’s time)
- Reynolds CF
- DH – Not sure who
- Amaya SS (If he can hit .210, his defense will be worth it.
Starting Pitching
- Julio Urias – Try and lock him up long-term
- Clayton Kershaw – No idea if he will come back
- Dustin May – A year later
- Tony Gonsolin – More winter strengthening
- Tyler Anderson – Offer him the QO and sign him to a lesser deal
- Gavin Stone – He is past ready
- Walker Buehler – Maye late in the season
- Bobby Miller – Maybe later
- Emmet Sheehan – After the All-Star Break
I still say Roberts through this game and got paid nice to do it. There is absolutely no excuse, no reason to take out a pitcher who is throwing a three hit shut out in a elimination game while throwing only 82 pitchers at the time. Unless he was hurt, which he wasn’t, you had to win this game or those 111 wins meant absolutely nothing!! And you take him out?? Nope, I will go to my grave saying Roberts through this game and got rewarded very nice on the side while doing it!
Threw, not through. I disagree with your conspiracy theory, but at least spell it correctly.
On the last link one poster defended Bellinger citing his poor offensive performance on his shoulder recovery. I call BS, he’s had plenty of time to recover and return to form….what we now see is what he is!
FF gets $27 million AAV and leads the league in hits and is
Second in BA and you think the Dodger braintrust will pay Bellinger $20 million on a one year tendered contract for his numbers? I don’t see it. The only way Bellinger is a Dodger next year is he again signs a one year below market contract to rebuild his worth but he’s not getting tendered at what it even cost the Dodgers this year which was $17 million.
If you can’t win it all with this years payroll it’s now time to go young, go cheap (relatively speaking) and infuse some young talent. Win the NL West or be a Wild Card contender and try to get hot in the playoffs.
Guggenheim will soon hold a board meeting and ask AF to get payroll to the $200 million dollar range, get under the CBT to reset and get on with a youth movement.
I expect to see larger roles from Pepiot, Grove, Stone, Miller, Outman, Busch and a team without Bellinger, JT, perhaps CK and others who might be traded.
Mookie needs to lead and put together a complete season with elite numbers rather that a hot May and August. Actually saw him take a deep sigh of breath when he got a walk in game two. That tight when you’re supposed to be a superstar and take a noticeable exhale breath like he was relieved he got a freaking walk?
I seriously doubt TT is re-signed, Doc may not survive this debacle and I agree AF should not be immune from criticism. The roster construction was terrible and why exactly was May on the roster if he doesn’t even get a warm-up in the BP?
Gonsolin for a game three start after pitching just three big league innings after being on the IL for nearly six weeks.
In a post season microcosm the Dodgers got the bases with no outs and scored one run on a sac fly. The Padres do the same and score five runs. Horrible just really horrible baseball and someone will be made a sacrificial lamb. My initial vote is RVS at a minimum .
To be completely candid I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see Guggenheim say “fuck it blow it all up.”
This series makes me want to go back to Hawaii and sit on the beach and forget about how bad we played, how bad we looked, how embarrassing it was. Living in Reno I will have to listen to the giant fans mock the Dodgers. Hope your trip was as good as mine, welcome back. Sorry we were not able to hook up.
It’s going to be amusing watching Mr. Megaphone defend Roberts IN ITALICS after last night’s fiasco.
Tell me how Roberts lost this series…
I dare you to try! You will immediately be declared insane and institutionalized!
Roberts needs to go. PERIOD End of story
Ok, so I didn’t see all the at bats. But one sequence, I think second time at bat. Musgrove clearly throwing flat sliders, nothing great, but Trayce and Taylor only looking for fastballs. Both struck out. Trayce looking at a hittable slider. And Taylor way out in front of one out of the zone. With 2 strikes why would they expect to get a fastball , when they showed they couldn’t hit the off speed stuff. Doesn’t someone talk to them about this? I guess not or it doesn’t sink in–They struck out 50+% of time!!
I agree Gallo not resigned. I think decision already made- he never got chance to bat. JT looked like he was 100 years old. The two hits I saw were when somehow the pitch hit his bat and he got two bloops. I think its time to move on from Codi. Maybe a change of scene will help. And Yes a big part of failure was Mookie. Team expected him to show up. He got caught stealing by an inch on a great throw. After that I guess they gave up on that. Sure guys got some hits, and solo homers. But that’s not going to get it done when you are 1-50 with RISP. SD were not much different going into last nite. But that’s not the point
I think the playoffs may have decided a few career decisions:
Had the Dodgers mowed through the playoffs and won the WS, I think TT would have thought long and hard about staying a Dodger. Who wouldn’t want to be a key player in a “historic” baseball dynasty? It had been rumored for some time that Philly would be a good landing spot for him considering his preference for the East coast and Philly having a need and some money to spend. I think the Phil’s success and the Dodger debacle make it a near certainty, now. Trea is on Zillow looking for mansions in suburban Philly as I write this.
Early on, it looked like this would’ve been JT’s last year. He looked slower at the plate and just looked like had aged out. He then became the hottest hitter in baseball in the 2nd half. Had he been a key figure in a glorious Dodger WS win he would’ve likely signed another one year deal. Now, who knows? It would save 17 million and open a spot on the roster for Vargas at 3rd or Rios. They aren’t great defensive players – anywhere on the field. Makes me wish the Dodgers could’ve landed Arenado. He’ll be opting out, so there’s always a chance, and he’s a local boy/lifelong Dodger fan, but he’s in a good place in a great baseball town with a solid organization already, so it’s a long shot.
Who knows with Kershaw? I get the feeling he still wants to come back – even after this – but he requires constant management and work to able to stay on the field and stay effective. Even then, although he didn’t exactly get hammered in the playoffs, he didn’t carry the Dodgers, either. If I’m in his shoes I might consider retiring.
It was pretty telling that the Dodgers opted to stop even putting Bellinger in the lineup in this series. He had some really bad at bats. We have used the phrase, “he looked lost at the plate” a lot with respect to Bellinger in the past, but his at bats were so uncompetitive that even the Dodgers gave up on him. His disappearance in this series might mean a non-tender. That would be really ballsy by the Dodgers, and unlikely, I think, but the time of making excuses for Bellinger because of his shoulder are over (they were silly to begin with). He has not been an the star player the Dodgers need since the 1rst half of 2019. He’s just painful to watch and I’m over it.
The Dodgers need outfielders and there are none in the system. Andy Pages, maybe, but he took a bit of a step back this year. Vargas can’t really play good defense anywhere on the field, and outfield is not even his primary position.
I don’t think there will be significant changes to the coaching staff. Roberts is a company man. He manages a system, and he’s not bad at it. I don’t think he did anything particularly egregious in this series, either. Van Scoyoc probably isn’t going anywhere, either, although if a head rolls, it is most likely him. I’ve read several rants about the Dodgers over-reliance on the “long ball” and poor performance with RISP as reason why he needs to go. Actually, the Dodgers were exceptional this year with stringing hits together, hitting with RISP, and they were less reliant on home runs this year than in prior years in my observation. If there was a weakness, IMO, it was having to carry underperformers like CT3, Belli, Gallo, JT for a while, and Muncy for a while. Belli was the obvious weak link, and it hurt in this series.
Roberts, as a playoff manager, has his flaws. I don’t think he rises to the moment. I don’t think he reads the game well as it develops. He relies on the consensus before game strategy. He plays the averages. He’s who we’re stuck with.
The organization has done everything right. The players who needed to hit just didn’t hit when it mattered. I don’t know the reasons. I would say, however, that I don’t think a five day layoff really offers a division winner an advantage. I would argue hitters need consistent work against real pitching to maintain their timing and sharpness. That’s as good a reason as any that I can think of. I also blame Mookie’s bowling. Dude! Glad you had a perfect bowling score the other night, but we need those performances when you’re in the batter’s box.
Maybe there’s something to the bowling. I don’t think the Dodgers came in with a sense of urgency. In WWII, the ultimate loss of the Japanese has been attributed to the ease of their early success. They suffered from what was termed “victory disease.” Just as we were smug and complacent here in our comments, perhaps that 111 “historic” season went to their heads, too.
And this is playoff baseball. There is a heavy dose of small sample size luck involved, and it was a longshot that the Dodgers were going to win the WS to begin with.
It would have been better if Mookie batted.300 in the playoffs than bowled 300. He didn’t show up when needed.
The reconstructed Padres are way better than the deconstructed Dodgers. The Dodger players are nice people. The coaches are nice people. Dave Roberts is a nice person. Kumbaya is the team’s theme song and Roberts is a wonderful camp counselor. The fact they won 111 games makes me believe in pixie dust! And finally, for all his analytics, AF lets his warm and fuzzies cloud his judgement. There! I’ve vented. The healing will take a bit longer.
This will, no doubt, be analyzed for the rest of the fall and most of the winter. The Dodgers won the marathon, got blown out in the sprint. The lack of hitting just didn’t happen, it started before the season ended.
In the end, the bullpen imploded in game four. I thought they should have let Anderson go at least another inning. Tired of Analytics. Enough already.
I’m still bringing back Trea Turner, but I’m guessing the Dodgers won’t. They won’t want to pay the freight.
The reality is that Mookie Betts is a very good player, but not a great one. He’s also incredibly streaky. If he gets on a roll, Mookie can carry a team. But that’s a lot to pay a player who has lengthy bouts of inconsistency.
So what do you do with Cody Bellinger? Hard to believe this is the same player who lit up 2019. They could bring him back on a reduced contract in hopes he finds it again. Or you could pursue an alternative in center, if one is actually available.
I think Clayton Kershaw returns for one more year. I like the idea of bringing Anderson back.
Trading Chris Taylor makes sense. Too many swings and misses. Dodgers should consider trading Muncy.
I don’t care how good the defense is, a .210 hitter at short just won’t cut it. Isn’t that the problem with Cody?
Don’t see Guggenheim blowing it up. They’re making boatloads of money. They’re again raising ticket prices. They need to put another great team on the field. Expect them to again win 106 games or more.
They just won 111 games. Why would they step back? They have protected the farm system and some of those players are ready or almost ready. But they will not go young just to go young. They need to win consistently to fill the seats and grow their revenue streams.
I get the disappointment, but the playoffs are, at best, a crapshoot. A team gets hot, another chills out and everything goes off the rails. Bottom line players have to produce. Anything can happen. Why do hitters go cold? Probably a lot of reasons. If Mookie was hot, this conversation probably wouldn’t be happening. The Dodgers had plenty of scoring opportunities. They just didn’t produce.
During the season we expect there won’t be anything said of real substance. Like yes Kimbrel (Jansen) is our closer and we have confidence in him. or Belli is showing improvement or Gallo is close and is having some good swings. etc etc. That’s to be expected. But in playoffs the truth shows up. Urias got the save and Jansen was bypassed. Gallo di d doesn’t bat. Beli benched.
” The Dodgers led all of baseball in 2022 with RISP with a batting average of .272. This postseason it was .147! ”
THIS RIGHT HERE!
I’ve said this since I’ve been on this blog. If our star players do in Oct what they do April-Sept, we’d have at least 4 rings this last 10 years.
This year, we had guys prove for 6 months that they could be clutch. Yet what happens? In the EXACT SAME situations in Oct, they fold. Will Smith seemed to always be up with guys on base this series. And he was an utter failure. If he, “the best catcher in baseball” came thru even 2 times, we’d be playing tonight in a game 5.
This isn’t on Friedman, or Doc, or the coaches. They built this team and coached this team to 7 months of historical greatness. Yet come October, what changed? They didn’t coach or manage differently. The guys seem to fold under pressure. There is no pressure in April or September. There is no pressure in June vs the Pirates. So talent rises and wins out.
But in October? Choke. 2017 doesn’t count as were robbed. I’ll even give the team the benefit of the doubt in 2021. They fought till the very end and really did look gassed after beating SF in round 1. But this year? Worst choke job ever by this Dodger team. Not one person showed up with a big hit like Cronenworth did with 2 out and 2 on.
We have the most talent in baseball, but we don’t have real October performers. Maybe we do need Joc back for October.
I know what you mean about Pittsburgh, but maybe not the best comparison as the Dodgers won only won game against them all season.
Right. The Dodgers, as a whole, sucked with runners in scoring position. And the Padres didn’t. They delivered. And the Dodgers embarrassed themselves. It was fitting that Hader would finish the series by striking out the vaunted “Big Three.”
I concur with much of Mark’s analysis, except for his chronic tendency to blame Mookie as the biggest culprit. Yes, Mookie had a poor batting average during the series–but in that last game, he walked twice and scored two of the Dodgers 3 runs.
And while the Dodgers weren’t hitting with RISP, didn’t Mookie have a sacrifice fly in a previous game? Sure, a HR would have been better–Mookie only hit 35 over the season, way more than any of his teammates–but it was still a productive out.
It’s true that Mookie is often the catalyst–but that is a role everyone should play. Grisham was the Pads’ catalyst, right? Hey, how about Trea! He swung the bat well!!!
But will we remember Trea’s bat or the way be botched two really routine plays in the field? That was ugly.
(Which reminds me: A couple of days ago some folks here were debating whether Gallo would have made a freaking great HR-saving catch and freaking great run-saving throw that Trayce failed to make. This just cracks me up. I find it hard to fault players who fail to make freaking great plays when guys are botching routine plays.)
At the risk of repeating myself, I’ll say it again: It’s fairly shocking how, after an epic 111-win season, the Dodgers’ brain trust–led by AF and DR–seemed to suddenly lose all faith in Bellinger, and also avoid using Gallo and Vargas! Barnes was the only bench player they trusted.
For a couple years now Belli been provided that “runway” to correct himself. We’d say, “Well, he still plays great defense and he hits an occasional homer…. Ain’t it a luxury to have a former MVP batting 9th! What a lineup!”
But in the end, he wasn’t in the lineup. Trayce Thompson, a scuffling veteran making a surprising return, moved ahead of him on the OF depth chart. So did Chris Taylor in the midst of a mediocre seaons with all his Ks!!!
And if Vargas is the Dodgers bright young prospect, why didn’t Roberts summon him to pinch-hit for Belli and choose Barnes instead? And why didn’t Gallo get the start against Musgrove?!?
As we ponder the Dodgers 2023 lineup, why isn’t Vargas projected for 3B? This was the position he played in OKC, and while he didn’t earn raves for his D (unlike Amaya and Outman), wasn’t he chosen to the league’s All-D team? I seem to recall some sort of honor that elicited surprise here.
I fully agree that Outman, after his fabulous debut, earned a lot more time to show whether he was ready for the majors. If he had delivered league-average offense with his solid glove, he’d have been an improvement over Gallo, Vargas and probably Belli too.
I think the collapse makes it much more like that Trea moves on, and that doesn’t bother me much. Without that championship glow, the Dodgers just won’t seem so appealing to him or other free again
Vargas has less experience in the OF. Maybe LF is his destiny, but it’s not like the Dodgers have a gold glover at 3B. I still wish AF had dealt for Matt Chapman when he had a chance.)
Back in Brooklyn, Da Bums inspired the refrain, “Wait til next year!”
Da LA Bums are keeping up the tradition.
What a buzz killer this series was. Anybody but the Padres. There will be plenty of conversation about Doc/the Wizard’s decisions. Some fair. Some not. To me we had too many players not play well. I wasn’t comfortable with our outfield group of Bellinger, Thompson, CT3 and Gallo and we see how that worked out. You could include Mookie also who hit .143 and brought none of his magic to the dance. We will see new faces in left and center next year, thankfully.
* We had multiple opportunities to increase the lead in this game and once again failed to do it. JT, Lux, Max. CT3 killed us.
* For the series, I knew Smith would be critical hitting behind Freddie and he hit .188. JT .154, Thompson .154 and Belli .143 and being basically benched.
* We hit .147 with Runners in Scoring position for 4 games.
* For the series we hit .227. If strike outs were hits we hit .333.
* Finally the bullpen couldn’t hold up. They say the problem relying on multiple bullpen pieces all the time is that eventually one or two guys don’t get the job done. And that was Kahnle and Almonte. It was inevitable as the bats slept.
* This team lacked a killer instinct. When we got a lead we didn’t put our foot on their throats and increase the lead. We sat back and allowed the Padres to gain confidence and eventually beat us.
* Lux may well be the SS next year. I’m still a big Trea Turner fan despite his defensive slump down the stretch. He is not an elite defender anyway but good enough. He still hit .333 and brings a lot of tools to the yard. But I think his asking price will not be met by the Dodgers and he moves on. His detractors won’t be sad. I will. Potential .300 hitting shortstops with elite speed and mojo, don’t grow on trees.
* Lux may make better turns at SS. He’s pitiful at 2nd. We just failed to complete double plays. His one pivot fits all, is so fundamentally flawed. Again last night he failed to complete a double play, with Martin on the mound, that would have ended the inning. A single later, with the go ahead run at the plate, Martin got Myers swinging. A tense situation that could have been disastrous because Lux can’t turn a double play. He footwork stinks and he gets nothing on the relay throw. I personally don’t see him as a good shortstop but that a conversation for another day.
* I long for the days when a pitcher was done because the hitters showed it; Not computers or a group of analysts. Data now decides how long a guy like Anderson will pitch based based on history to predict the future. It takes the human element completely out of it. Anderson was done because a computer said so and Doc danced around that question with skill in the in-game interview.
* This team will and should look a lot different next year. It will be a very interesting winter.
Yes, the Dodgers play was awful. But what was more perplexing to me was their spirit. Outside of Freddie Freeman in a few instances, nobody, and I mean nobody, was eagerly and outwardly “pulling for their teammates”. No good vibes anywhere to be found. It was like Mookie, both Turners, Muncie, CT3, et all took “I just want to be by myself pills.” And, WTH was Bueller doing on the FOX pregame show ucking it up with A-Rod, etc. instead of being at the ballpark supporting his teammates. Compare that to how the Padres played. They showed constantly that they were in the fight with their brothers in arms until the end. And that included Manny, who should have thunk it.
So its easy to find fault with management, but its up to the players to come thru. This stuff about it being too easy during the year, or Mookie bowling is BS. So last year we fought down to the wire and then people said we were worn out and should have not tried to beat the Giants. I still think the goal is to have the best team and we proved it during the year. So somehow the guys have to figure out in Oct. Sometimes one guy does it like Seager, Or the “Stunt Men’ in 1988. Freddie tried, but it wasn’t enough. Any strategy can succeed if the the guys execute. The Braves won 15 years in a row and just 1 World Series. Hopefully we don’t match that record
The indelible memory of this season is being humiliated by the f’ing Padres in the playoffs, not those hundred and whatever regular season wins.
Not as upset as I thought I would be. It was just simply ugly to watch, as were many games during the season. I believe the 5-day layoff took some of the edge off of the offense, but they actually lost 3 in a row to a terrible Rockies team during that 6-game series. So they were primed to be beat. Lefty heavy rotation, so they started a guy who was far from being 100% in game 3 and hoped for the best. When you think about it, that was one of their better pitched games in the series since they gave up only 2 runs. You give up only 2, you should win the game. I am usually a lousy prognosticator, but I believe some of these things are going to happen. JT has played his last game as a Dodger. They are going to go for the buyout. They will give Chris Taylor 1 year to redeem his lost season. If they do not sign or trade for a SS, Gavin Lux will be the starting SS opening day unless Amaya shows a lot in spring. With some tweaks they can have a potent offense again. They cannot afford to have Muncy have a season long slump again. Max is going to have to step up his production. Bellinger gets non tendered. If I am Cody, I find the best hitting guru I can and totally revamp the way I approach hitting. If he had listened to Freeman or just simply watched how the guys approaches hitting, he could be a much better player. Not sure if Anderson will get a QO, but they will probably at least talk to him about another contract. Kimbrel, Heaney, Price, all will be gone. Kershaw will play another season, but not in Dodger blue. I think he goes home to Texas. Will Smith is still the best catcher in the game, and I give him a little leeway on his performance yesterday since it was a pretty stressful day for him with the birth of his daughter and then having to helicopter back to the stadium. Austin Barnes had 2 hits in his 3 at bats. He will be the backup again. Thompson will probably not be retained, although he would love it. Gallo is gone. I believe fan pressure on the team to dismiss Roberts and at least some of his staff is going to be very strong. But who do you get to replace him? The Rangers are talking to Bruce Bochy. One other point, same as last year, AF did very little to address the bench at the deadline. It already was pretty much a black hole. He traded for a .160 hitter with a lot of power who strikes out a ton. Hanser Alberto, although a sparkplug on the bench, was a disappointment as he did not do as well against lefty’s as he had been in his career.. Martin did a decent job, and was a nice return for McKinstry. The Padres went out and got a closer, and two solid hitters. Game, set match to Preller. Now the long winter begins, we will have some idea by the end of February what next years Dodgers will look like. Until then, fans are going to agonize over every decision the front office makes. Not me. I am just going to watch and wait.
Agree with most of your points. I think Kershaw does come back. I like Trea but I think your right, Lux takes over at SS and Busch to 2nd. Drury was a nice pickup but didn’t do much in the series (he would have fit right in with the Dodgers). Soto would have been nice but the cost would have been very high (reports that the Nats wanted Lux as part of a package).
Haven’t seen the Atlanta fans response to their loss but Yankee fans sounds just like everyone on Dodger sites, and they still have a chance.
You could be right about Kersh, in his heart he is a career Dodger. But I also think AF had some other options to fortify the bench and the team. Atlanta added all fringe players in 21, and every one of them did well. Gallo was a total bust. But I expected no less of him. Not getting Soto did not bother me all that much because I knew the price was high. But it still remains to be seen if he signs a long-term deal with the Padres. I am pretty sure he will become a free agent after next season. I think LA needs to find a defensive whiz at third who can also hit. They need some outfielders, besides Betts, who at least can hit .260 with some pop. Had Bellinger come close to doing that, the entire offense would have been better than it was. Soto barely hit .240. I expect Muncy to be better next season simply because he will be a year more removed from the injury he suffered in 21. Max’s silver hammer still has some pop left in it, but I use him as the DH. JT will be gone.
JT will be back. On the field. As a player (or DH). But he will be back.
He had a slow start, was one of the best hitters in MLB for the second half, and then had a bad last two weeks. They may not pick up that option, but both sides will find a way to bring him back.
Not at 16 mil he won’t. They will buy him out before they do that.
So next season SD with Tatis, Machado, Soto, Drury, Hader–perhaps they are the team favored to win division. Pitching–We still are better.
Drury is a free agent and his stats with SD were not nearly as good as they were with the Reds, so he might not be back. But having Tatis instead of Drury makes them a lot stronger.
Musgrove, Darvish and Snell are under contract for next year.
Clevinger and Manaea are not, but they didn’t perform all that well so will probably be replaced by better alternatives.
We as Dodger fans, had better not just brush them off next year like a horse swatting a fly with its tail. Look where that got us this year.
Us? We had a great, fun season.
The Dodgers got 111 wins, no?
https://twitter.com/tuff_overlord/status/1581515102397685760?s=21&t=8OkF3va3Kjuwo9BGI_Q9EA
And yeah, we will be back. This team only gets better. Bet on it.
Worst thing about this is that the Astro’s are now the World Series favorites. Yeah, there are a lot of different faces there, but if they play the Padres, I am pulling for them to sweep the Pads.
I can honestly say I won’t watch an inning!
Same here
How long until the William post?
Perhaps JT gets offered the job as manager if they decide to relieve Doc of his duties. Forces JT into retirement. I like that move.
JT isn’t ready to retire and the Dodgers just renewed Doc so not likely to fire him this quickly.
On the other hand, if 2023 goes the same way as this year……………………….your scenario just might be in play for 2024.
They could always promote Doc to Tommy’s old job as Guru of Dodgers BS then bring back JT as player/manager on a 1 year contract. Utley as manager could be another possibility. Time for a change. Tired of the re-runs. Start now. Get Vargas working at 3rd all off season. Give him the job to lose next spring.
I miss Lasorda
yesterday someone suggested Utley as a manager.
Now, it’s JT.
1. Neither has any experience managing.
2. Neither has any reason to want to manage.
3. Why would the Front office want either?
Doc didn’t have any experience when he originally got the job.
How do you know that neither has any reason to want to manage?
Why wouldn’t the front office want either? Mark probably has the answer to that question.
Doc had five years of coaching experience. At the MLB level.
You said managing experience. At the MLB level. Now I’m having second thoughts of who they should be giving the Guru of Dodgers BS job to.
From Houston Mitchell:
–The Dodgers do a great job of building a team for the regular season. An outstanding job. They just haven’t figured out how to build a World Series champion team. There’s not a huge difference between to regular season and the postseason, but there is a difference, and the Dodgers’ push-button job of management hasn’t figured it out.
—The other disappointing thing: No passion on this team whatsoever. To be clear, I can’t read minds and don’t know what anyone is thinking, but the vibe constantly given off is one of “We can turn it on whenever we want. No worries.”
—If you are a “Star Trek” fan, we had a team full of Spocks. The Padres had a team full of Capt. Kirks. Spock will figure out the best route to get you to Disneyland, but once you get there, you want Capt. Kirk leading the way
—And you have to credit the Padres. They outplayed the Dodgers in every facet of the game. I don’t really even dislike anyone on the Padres, except Manny Machado.
—If recent history holds to form, the Padres will win the World Series now.
—But, it’s not Roberts fault the Dodgers lost. They had ample opportunities to win Games 2, 3 and 4 and couldn’t come up with what they needed in any of those games.
Did he really write this:
—If you are a “Star Trek” fan, we had a team full of Spocks. The Padres had a team full of Capt. Kirks. Spock will figure out the best route to get you to Disneyland, but once you get there, you want Capt. Kirk leading the way
😉 Yep! I prefer Star Wars!
Bobby summed it up very succinctly:
This isn’t on Friedman, or Doc, or the coaches. They built this team and coached this team to 7 months of historical greatness. Yet come October, what changed? They didn’t coach or manage differently. The guys seem to fold under pressure.
Perhaps not playing for 5 days had , at least, something to do with our losing to an inferior team ?
Inferior by whose standards? That Padres roster has been assembled to compete in the playoffs. Just because they won 20 less games than the LAD during the season it does not mean they’re not a good team. The Padres are playing their best baseball at the right time. They’re playing some really good baseball over there. Sometimes you simply have to tip your hat!
I honestly believe that was part of it, except they lost 3 of their last 4 to the lowly Rockies. So all told they lost 6 of their last 7. You do not win championships with that kind of record. Padres like last years Braves had to fight just to get into the playoffs, Dodgers won the wild card last year, and then drained the tank beating the Giants. What showed up in the NLCS against the Braves was a shadow of the team that won 106. This team really needed a Buehler in that rotation. Unfortunately, he was down for the count. I also think that the one place where Roberts did fail miserably was not lighting a fire under those guys. They looked, played and acted complacent. Tommy would be very pissed at the way they played that last week.
Musgrove pitched really well this year. Snell continued his playoff dominance against the Dodgers. Darvish, well, was Darvish. Their bullpen was stellar and they deserve credit for fixing Hader, Also, don’t undermine the Soto acquisition. After all, it was the young superstar who got the clutch hit to drive in what would become the game winning runs. I will agree with you with Buehler. We clearly missed our ace. We got beat by a team whose bullpen was lights out and got key hits when it mattered most. We simply failed to shut down their offense and get key hits off of their stellar bullpen.
How about hitting coaches? Or was it Doc’s call? We never tried a single bunt. In a close game, especially in late innings when scores are tied or different by 1, one run makes a lot of difference!! We’ve never tried a bunt. I wonder if that falls to the responsibility of Doc or hitting coaches.
The 2002 Champ Angels built on small runs. Our guys seem to always want to have big swings – and in playoffs when you are facing great pitchers, chances are you get big outs instead of big hits.
If we had a couple of bunts in Games 2 and 3, the results might have been very different.
Turner laid down a great bunt in game 4 which lead to a run and bases loaded with no out. But that was the ONLY time they did it, though there were plenty of chances in prior games 2 and3 . And it proved how effective the bunt can be, especially when your team has trouble with RISP anyway.
Too little , too late. And I blame that squarley on Roberts.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
One thing I don’t understand is that we never bunt!! In late Games 2 and 3 we had RISP with no or one out while the scores were either tied or trailed by 1. ONE RUN makes a lot of differences!! Yet, the players never attempted a single bunt and all tried big swings – and the results were zero runs!!
I blame this on DR and the hitting coaches (whoever they are).
Everything you wrote, surely influenced by the defeat, you would not have written if the bullpen had done the job, if the bullpen had done the job the team would have reached the fifth game, what you wrote is rubbish.
No what he wrote is the truth. What ifs are rubbish. The bullpen did not do the job, so the truth is, the so-called best team in baseball is heading for their winter golf games and some time to reflect on how bad they played the last seven games of the year. Some of them have to contemplate uncertain futures, Bellinger, Heaney, Alberto, and several of the bullpen guys. Gallo and Turner head into free agency, one on a high note and the other with a below the Mendoza line season behind him.
… and if chickens had lips they would be people.
It’s not on Doc. He’s done what was asked of him. But something has to change. As others have pointed out, there was no fire. No urgency. No soul. As much as I’ve come to hate the Padres, this was a fantastic movie script for them. A horror movie for Dodger fans. Let’s face it. We were the arrogant villain who just got humiliated by a lesser opponent who wanted it more. The problem is that 2022 was a sequel. I said the same thing last year. Dodgers got a few new faces, won more games but the script turned out to be the same. We’re Apollo Creed. And we just got knocked the hell out by a doofus who can’t talk good.
The Dodgers can’t just lick their wounds and keep on the same plan. Some sort of major shakeup has to happen. Whatever is causing or allowing this malaise to exist has to go. There has to be a shock to the system. New blood. On the field and off.
I agree with Mark. They need to unleash the youth. Nobody can tell me the bottom of our order would be less productive with young players we have in the system than it was with Bellinger, Muncy, Taylor and Gallo. Maybe the young guys will play with some heart. They don’t have massive contracts and a ring from 2020. They might really fight for those things.
And I’ve become less interested in signing Trea. There is an awful lot to like about him. But I don’t see that killer instinct. Freeman has it. Mookie has had it. He was the spark in 2020. No idea what happened to that in 2022. Post extension Mookie isn’t the same player. And I’m not talking about stats. We’re missing a major intangible.
I’ve always been “meh” on Doc. His winning % is amazing in the regular season. Players seem to like him. He seems to work well with management. I’ve defended him when fans blame him for everything up to and including the weather. But maybe we need a guy who will get thrown out of games. Get in a players faces. Inspire some kind of fighting instinct. Our coaching staff seems to be more like mid level managers who just don’t want to “rock the boat”. Get in a players face? Nah. Just put it in a memo. We’ve become IBM. And some guys named Jobs and Gates are eating our lunch.
I hate to say this about a coaching staff that just won 111 games. But they probably need to go. All of them but Prior. And I’d like to see the Dodgers look internally.
Bellinger, gone. JT, gone. That money could go to better use elsewhere. Vargas plays everyday. Amaya gets a real shot. Add a couple bats in free agency. Build a roster less reliant on Mookie. Freeman is our centerpiece.
Blow it up.
I don’t want to watch this movie again. Not only did Rocky 3 suck. It had a very predictable ending.
In Mookie’s defense, he has been dealing with some physical issues. Mostly in 21. But he has had a few this year too. So, saying post contract Mookie is not the same player is not necessarily true. He set a career high in homers, scored more than 100 runs, and played impeccable defense. He was not the same guy in the playoffs and was definitely not the same guy the last 30 games of the season when he hit only .223. He also seems to have lost a step or two on the bases. He went 1-8 in his last 3 regular season games. So he was heading into the post season cold. Freddie had the same problem until the last game when he went 3-4 to just miss winning the batting title, but remember that 0-12 stretch that cost him the title.
Great post.
A tweet from another fan, mirroring exactly my feelings today.
idk how to approach my fandom anymore. Just feels like the regular season is meaningless. Not sure why I should care when an 80something win team gets hot at the right time and topples the Dodgers every year no matter who the Dodgers add to their lineup
Thinking about cancelling my mlbtv subscription I had since it hit the market. Also will not go to ST next spring.
Frustration level never was so high as today about this new playoff debacle.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Honestly, it would be tolerable if we got beat by an 80 something win team after going down fighting for every inch. We went down with a whimper. A humiliating whimper.
I’m no Tom Brady fan. But this is Brady when they lose. He doesn’t accept loosing. Where is this in our clubhouse?
https://twitter.com/nflonfox/status/1581711967072686082?s=46&t=G_-jsORaWE9Xw__jNBqRag
Renovate the Dodgers! No, a complete rebuild isn’t needed, but a renovation sure is. Start at the top. DUMP THE PROPELLER HEADS! The Dodgers seem to be the victims of “over analysis” too much analytics and a manager with his hands tied behind his back. The strings are all pulled by the propeller heads (starting with Friedman). Guggenheim is happy as long as there are butts in the seats and long lines at the team store. WE WANT A WINNER. Start with Chase Utley as the new manager. Some new players who are hard nosed and will change the culture around the Ravine. The current Dodgers remind me of office workers in 3 piece suits who professionally go in to work every day and do their duty, but don’t get too up or too down, just steady. Kiki, Joe, Puig had some emotion and flair. I miss that.
The idea that the team could be “blown up” – are you all 11 years old? The Dodgers are unquestionably one of the best teams, if not the best. They’re much better than the Padres. They’re better than almost anyone. They lost three of four games in the playoffs and got eliminated. Do you know what sample size is? To look at a four game slump and think that it reveals a 111-win regular season to be an illusion — that is the reasoning of a child, not a rational adult.
Just a question: How many more of these humiliating defeats in the playoffs does it need for you so your sample size is big enough to accept that something is not going right in this organzization (from Friedmann to Roberts to the players) when it comes to winning a title ?
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just wanted to hop over here and give my takes on this season and engage in some healthy discussions. These are my opinions so feel free to agree or disagree, but no disrespect is intended towards anyone here at this site. Just be nice to me please. Here are my takes on the Dodgers.
I agree with a lot of what Mark is saying about the general direction of the organization. I have actually always liked Dave Roberts, I think he’s a nice guy and runs a good clubhouse. But he follows orders. He gives canned responses to the media. I’ve never liked Andrew Friedman and his organizational philosophies/strategies on baseball. Honestly he’s always been a loser. He was a loser in Tampa with limited resources and no money. Now with the Dodgers and given a ton of money and resources he’s only won one championship in a covid year out of what 9 years now? He can build great regular season clubs, but does not understand anything about how to build winning teams in October. It’s not just that the players didn’t perform, or there were injuries, his strategies, roster construction, philosophy and game management have a direct correlation on why they lose every year in the playoffs or World Series. Here are just a few.
1. Building and managing a pitching staff around middle relievers instead of starting pitchingl.
The Dodgers had good pitching this year, but revolved the staff around heavy bullpen use. The secret recipe for success in October is making sure your starters go deep into games and the bullpen is used sparingly. Starting pitching is the name of the game and the Dodgers just don’t get this. I understand that a lot of other teams are using this strategy, but just because other teams do it, doesnt mean it’s a good idea. If everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too? The starters don’t have to toss complete games, but let them go 6-7 innings and then go to the pen. Tyler Anderson was dominating the Padres. If he had been allowed to pitch into the 7th inning the Dodgers might have won. But they pulled him after 5, because that was their plan before the game. It’s not the 1980’s anymore surely, but how many starters pitched over 150 innings this year? 1 maybe 2?
2. wasting roster spots on injured and innefective pitchers/players
There were several pitchers and position players that were injured and not able to play and roster spots were wasted on them. Treinen, Graterol, May, Gonslin, Taylor, etc all were hurt and either never got into games, or were shells of their former selves. They really only had 3 fully healthy and effective relievers and 3 starters to use.
3. going with struggling hitters all season long.
This is something Mark touched on here. Going with guys like Bellinger, Taylor all season long when they were either hurt, or struggling. not making a change until the last game and the last minute is another problem they have. It seems they are unwilling to deviate from their plans. They just assume every one of their plans will always work out. October is never like this.
4. Horrendous benches
Friedman has built some of the worst benches I have seen in my Dodger life over the last few seasons. Im sorry while Hanser Alberto is a nice guy and good teammate, he is a terrible hitter. Yet he was allowed to waste a roster spot all season. Im guessing maybe they figured that they don’t need a bench anymore because of the DH, which is wrong for many reasons.
5. Poor game management
Remember them blowing leads in 2015, 2016, 2017 World Series, 2018 World Series, 2019, 2021, and on and on and on. They a 3-0 lead. All they had to do was let Tyler pitch as deep into the game as he could. Get one or two relievers up just in case, but letting Tyler pitch into the 7th and then going to Phillips who was their best reliever all season long would have probably won them the game. And then letting Khanle give up 3 runs and stand there and not at least try to pause the game and get someone up sooner was such a huge blunder.
No hit and runs, sending runners, station to station base-running. Poor plate approaches in general. Not moving runners over didn’t help either.
6. They are predictable
Another problem is that they are far too predictable. They are not flexible when things go awry, and often in the playoffs they do. Opposing teams easily are able to predict their strategies.
I believe it’s time for Guggenheim to move the franchise in a different direction. There are many ways to build a winning team in October. Look at what the Cleveland Guardians are doing. They have one star and the rest of the club is young cheap dynamic players with a veteran manager on a low payroll. The Padres went out and got several key players to help them win in October and their bullpen has clear defined roles. They knew exactly who to go to in the 7th 8th and 9th innings. Even their lesser players like Profar, Kim, Myers etc were all playing at high levels. no hocus pocus, no “piggybacking”. Their relievers were all lock down and dominant.
Friedman and Roberts inspire little in their players. There was a big void in leadership throughout the season and playoffs. They never rallied around each other or came together even to some extend. They got punched in the mouth once by the Padres and folded up like a beach chair. Winning in the postseason takes toughness, and the ability to fight. This year’s Dodgers had none of that.
I know you may disagree with me, but it’s time to move on from Andrew Friedman. Since Dave Roberts is his extension, him as well. He’s had 8 plus years to win championships, and he was only able to do it once during a shortened covid season. They’ve had some of the most brutal crushing heartbreaking losses under him. Why not bring in someone fresh and let somebody else have a shot at winning a World Series? They will continue to lose every year in the playoffs with him in charge.
Just my take on this. Wish everyone well here.
Good stuff Scott, and I agree with your analysis. AF has been a little too complacent come the trade deadline. The only time he had a decent bench was when he had Kike, Taylor and Joc there to use. The bullpen has always been built on reclamation projects. I do think the team they brought to spring training was a lot better than the team that ended up in the playoffs simply because Buehler and Hudson and Treinen were all healthy. I think they really missed Hudson. I think Chris Martin did a fine job and he did not cost an arm and a leg. They gave Muncy all season to get better, same with Cody, Muncy had a good last month and a decent playoff, but he struck out too much when needed. Gallo was a waste of a roster spot as was Vargas who never got his windbreaker off. I would have preferred to see Pepiot in Mays roster spot, at least he could have pitched a few innings. I also thought they wasted a spot on Gonsolin, who despite his great year was far from ready come playoff time. In the old days, they would have filled the roster with rookies at the end to give them a taste of the majors, with the roster restrictions, they can no longer do that. But they went on cruise control right after they clinched, and I have to believe that took the edge out of the offense. The five day layoff did not help either.
You have to wonder why Khanle was on the roster to begin with. He pitched only what 15 innings for them in the regular season and he has been injured not effective his entire career. He was there partly because of the poor roster construction which hamstrung them from the beginning. Having injured and not effective pitchers on the roster was the reason. Gonsolin had a great season, but he is terrible in the playoffs. He had a career 9.45 ERA in the postseason and has never to my knowledge pitched beyond the second inning in the playoffs. They couldn’t figure out a better plan then to throw him out there again?
If you have to remove Anderson after the fifth inning then the few effective relievers that were remaining have to pitch multiple innings to get them to the finish line. Martin didnt have his best stuff but at least was able to get outs. They could have at least let him pitch a second inning and then go to Phillips for the eighth and ninth. This is an elimination game and losing with your worst players is something losers do. You have to push your players as much as you can in these situations and then re-group once you win.
Their inability to be flexible again cost them another title.
You make some interesting points, Scott, but I’d like to know why you consider Friedman such a loser, having won only one WS in his 8 years here.
Maybe we should try to hire the guy who has won more than one during that period. Do you know who that is?
Actually, the answer to that question is “No One”. During Friedman’s tenure here, there has not been any team which has one more than one WS.
With every team’s ability to build rosters to their specs, analysis and strategy, you would think one or two organizations would stand out with multiple championships. Maybe the fact that there haven’t been any teams which have won more than once indicates the post season is partially a matter of luck and timing.
Do you know the last time a team repeated as champion from one year to the next? The Yankees were the last to do that and won 3 in a row from 1998-2000. That’s almost 25 years ago.
Now that I’ve disagreed with you on that point, I can say that I agree on a number of your other points. Hopefully changes are in the wind.
I’ve been lobbying for bringing in a player with attitude, you know the same characteristics we hate in the Padre dugout. Someone that could bring some life to the clubhouse. Our guys walk around like they’re going to the office. I almost expect them to bring a briefcase up to the plate with them. Bring some life to the game!
I expect better results from him given the money and resources. Didnt expect him to win in small markets like Tampa Bay with such little money. But when you’re given 250-300 million dollar payrolls every year and reign if the premier franchise in mlb you should be able to produce more than just 1 covid-year ring in 8 years and not 7 or more crushing heartbreaking playoff debacles.
The Giants won 3 titles. The Cardinals won two in 2006 and 2011. The Red Sox winning several in 2007,2013,2018.
Agree with you about the lack of passion and briefcase. There was a void of leadership that was clearly noticed.
Well said Scott. If only the Guggenheim Board of Directors were listening.
You should chime in more often. Good stuff.
If you’re talking about me, I would like too. I always enjoy talking Dodgers.
Love hearing from you my friend. I have always enjoyed your insight. I too have expected more, and I believe as a whole Dodger fans had very high expectations for the team even with all of their warts exposed. Their RISP batting in the playoff series was appaling.
You know what they say about “nice guys” and where they finish ?
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m going to do what Mark did, call out what went wrong and talk about what to do going forward at least what I think. Speaking of Mark, he said one glaring thing up top that I absolutely disagree about and that is Amaya. We do not need another Cesar Izturis or Alex Cora. All defense and very little hitting.
What went wrong:
Obviously the hitting sucked.
The bench sucked, so no alternatives.
Doc or whoever calls the shots sucked AGAIN.
That sums it up.
The first 2 lines above tells everything about the offense, so no need to talk about that, except for Betts who is making a billion dollars didn’t show up and earn that billion dollars. But the third line above I’ll explain.
The first loss of this series, Doc or whoever calls the shots did nothing wrong.
The second loss of this series, Doc or whoever calls the shots made 1 mistake, BUT IT ENDED UP NOT MATTERING because once again the hitting sucked. That mistake was not using the better option May instead of Heaney.
Now here is the kicker, the third and final loss of this series. First of all when you are in a do or die situation you turn to your BEST. After pitching a shut out for 5 innings and allowing only 2 hits and 2 walks, Doc or whoever calls the shots took Anderson out of the game. WTF? The second WTF was Phillips (The BEST in the bullpen) pitching the 9th inning when the game was already over, considering once again the hitting sucked and Josh Hader was a lock to pitch the 9th inning. What should have happened since Anderson was on a roll, he should have been kept in the game preferably to get the ball to Phillips (The BEST in the bullpen) to pitch up to 2 innings to end the game. If another reliever was needed to pitch 1 inning in that situation because Anderson was shaky in the 6th inning then so be it. Preferably it should have been Martin, who was statistically better than Phillips during the regular season, but Phillips pitched a lot more high leverage innings than Martin.
Now going forward:
Friedman needs to somewhat clean house when it comes to the offense.
Alberto needs to go.
Bellinger needs to go.
Gallo needs to go.
Taylor needs to go.
Thompson needs to go.
Muncy needs to go.
Anyone with a contract expiring that I didn’t say needs to go should be signed if possible, and the only ones as far as I know are both Turners.
Since 4 outfielders need to go, Outman needs to make the team and should make the team right out of spring training. That leaves 5 spots open for new faces and I am not sold on Vargas, but Justin Turner will need a backup at 3B and I guess Vargas will do. The 4 remaining spots should be filled as much as possible with guys who can hit for average and power against both righties and lefties. No more platoons and 3 true outcome hitters as much as possible.
As for the pitching, it’s complicated. But any free agents that are acquired, and we will need some, need to be able to pitch to both sides of the plate effectively, because we are living in the 3 batter minimum era. Off the top of my head these guys need to go, and I might be missing some names.
Heaney needs to go.
Price needs to go.
Kimbrel needs to go.
Graterol needs to be in the minors for depth only.
Ferguson needs to be in the minors for depth only.
Bickford needs to be in the minors for depth only.
The last 3, as far as I know have options, and if any of them don’t, then they need to go too. Anyone that I didn’t mention here that have contracts expiring, they should be signed to a new contract if possible. Also stay away as much as possible from using the minor league pitchers on the 40 man roster currently, except Pepiot. They are Bruihl, Burrows, Grove, Jackson. This is where getting good free agents comes into play and having Graterol, Ferguson, Bickford in the minors for depth.
Gavin Stone needs to make the team and should make the team right out of spring training. Bobby Miller watch, if he turns things around, promote him to the big league team.
Agree with a lot of this Eric. Gallo is a free agent and will not be retained. They have an option on Alberto. Price is going to retire. Heaney will get a deal somewhere else; Ferguson is pretty fed up with the team and will most likely be traded. Bellinger has a great chance now of being non tendered. Muncy just signed an extension, he is not going anywhere. Same with Taylor. Thompson did a nice job during the season and he might get a one year deal to come back as a extra outfielder, but that can go either way. I think there need to be some changes in attitude and mechanics with the hitting philosophy that they have right now. I think some of the kids will get very long looks in spring. But the most immediate needs are addressing the closer situation, and the bench. Stone will get a look in spring, but is he MLB ready to step into the starting rotation>? Questionable if you want deep innings. They tend to limit the kids innings. So I also think they need to get an established starter by hook or by crook this winter.
I agree that Gallo and Price are a lock to be gone I just wanted to reiterate it. Don’t forget Kimbrel is a lock to be gone too. I hope you are right that Heaney will be gone. I mention before that I believe Ferguson will be gone soon but it isn’t a lock.
As far as Muncy and Taylor are concerned, I’ve seen guys traded not far away after they signed a new contract. So it’s possible but I have a funny feeling that Friedman doesn’t want to blow up the current team. So you might be right.
I Think Alberto is pretty much a lock to be gone because I think Vargas makes the team and It isn’t hard to find a better right handed hitter than him in free agency.
I think Thomson is pretty much gone because I think Outman will make the team and Friedman will sign a top notch outfielder if not 2. And if you are right about Taylor staying and that is very possible, that’s Outman, Betts, Taylor, and a top notch outfielder from free agency with Vargas as an emergency outfielder.
Only real top notch free agent outfielder is Aaron Judge, and he is going to cost a mint. I think Thompson did a decent job and in his limited time he did hit 13 long balls. He will get a deal and an invite to spring training. He has the plus of being very low cost. Outman should make the team as a 4th outfielder. I will watch with much anticipation to see how they deal with Bellinger.
You make a lot of good points. I think the one thing we all agree on is that the strategy needs to change. Exactly how we will have a lot of time to debate. We simply can’t go into ST like business as usual.
One other thing I would like to touch on here is about the farm system that Mark likes to champion as the best in baseball. I know he may get a bit upset at me for posting this, but I have to challenge him here. The farm system has not been that good over the last few years and has produced almost no impact players since 2019. Name me one prospect that has come up and made a difference since 2019? I can’t think of one player. The last home grown prospect that made a difference was Will Smith, and maybe to a lesser extent Dustin May. That was a few years ago.
If these prospects are so good as some like to suggest than why weren’t they promoted and in the lineup and producing? Either they are still developing or not very good yet, or both. If Miguel Vargas was so good, he would have been in the lineup hitting in the postseason and driving in runs. Other than a couple of semi-effective relievers, not one minor leaguer or prospect has been productive.
Another issue is that Friedman is not good at drafting players. Other than Smith, Buehler and May, I can’t think of anyone else drafted that has made an impact at the major league level. Maybe Lux? I’m still not high on him as he is a light hitter and has no power. Although he did improve greatly this season. So that’s 3 players in over 8 years. That’s not a good track record.
The last of the great prospects from the old regime Urias, Kershaw, Bellinger, are all getting older or are already old, or struggling in Bellinger’s case. The one guy who ended up becoming a star Alavarez in Houston, he traded for Josh Fields. He needs to draft better players. The farm system has to be more productive than it’s been.
I can’t agree with this. All Stars don’t grow on trees. No team produces star players from their minor league every year. The Dodgers have drafted late in the draft for a decade. A productive farm system isn’t just about producing stars. It’s about producing productive, low cost MLB talent with a runway of team control.
May, Gonsolin and Lux haven’t contributed? Sure, there has been injury issues. But those three are All Star caliber players other teams have been trying to acquire from us for years. Stone and Miller are two of the top pitching prospects in baseball. And they are MLB ready or very close. Vargas might be the best pure hitter in the minor leagues and Diego Cartaya is arguably THE best catching prospect in the minors. He is ranked 1st or 2nd on every list. And those are just the players who have significant star potential. There are many others who will likely become productive MLB players even if not All Star caliber. The Dodgers minor league system is the envy of the entire sport. Of all the things that we can legitimately criticize AF about, that literally should be dead last on the list. The Dodgers producing talent is certainly not the problem. I’d say, if anything, AF is way too cautious in using his young talent. With a 20 game lead, the Dodgers should have given a player like Vargas 100+ ABs in the final month or so. Instead of tossing him out there once or twice a week for 2-3 ABs.
You don’t win 100+ games every year because your team doesn’t produce talent. We can certainly argue about how that talent is utilized. But the talent is there. It’s been there for a long long time. We’ve just been spoiled. We can’t expect the Dodgers to pull a ROY or MVP out their ass every year. But they’ve done remarkable things in the draft and international market. We have the worst player development in baseball. Except for every other team.
Scott has a point. Gavin Lux was drafted in 2016. He had a very decent year this season but was hampered by a sore neck and some other small ailments. He played in 129 games, had 471 at bats. He struck out 97 times, a common theme for this team where you had 6 players with more than 100 Ks apiece. Bellinger, Taylor and Muncy struck out 451 times combined. Muncy though managed more walks then Taylor and Belli combined. The last position player coming up through the system who made a real impact is Smith. Verdugo had a decent rookie campaign but was dealt for Betts. The Dodgers have produced some highly rated kids who have yet to do anything at the major league level. Look I get the fact that the Dodgers do well considering where they draft year after year. Stone and Miller, Vargas and Cartaya, all highly rated prospects. But prospects are just that until they actually do something in the majors. I did not see enough of Vargas to even consider him a budding major leaguer. Oh the scouts and reports say he is one of the best hitting prospects in the minors. But he showed very little of that in his short time with the team. One thing I saw from Outman was outstanding defensive skills. Michael Grove showed some grit. As for Alvarez, he was not even rated when he was traded for a proven MLB reliever. He was at Las Tunas in Cuba before he signed with the Dodgers and then was dealt before he played a single minor league game. He had been a Dodger for six weeks when he was traded. Dumb luck on the Astros part or deft scouting in Cuba.
Don’t know that I would cut as much off the bone as Eric wants to do. This team did win 111 games though did disappoint again in playoffs. Honestly, last year was not as disappointing given the injuries and the exhausting battle with SF for most of the season. Also this Padres team didn’t overachieve in the playoffs. They underachieved all year and were focused for the playoffs. Darvish and Snell have pitched tough against LA and Musgrove gives them a more formidable top three in playoff series than Dodgers. Their hitters with Machado, Soto, Drury, Bell, Cronenworth and the rest are every bit as deep as the Dodgers top heavy group. If this group with Hader was together all year the Padres would not have finished 22 games back. It is disingenuous to pretend they are the little engine that could. Of course they gutted their farm system to accrue this talent and I like the Dodgers approach of sustained excellence better. When recalling their “failures” in the past nine years we can’t forget that they lost in 2017 to a cheating scandal and their opponent in 2018 was also found to have used Apple Watches to gain advantage. I was disappointed as well and I agree that they have to make some decisions on guys they have been more than loyal to these past two years – Bellinger, JT, Muncy and Taylor. Not sure they don’t bring back 3 of them but there are some tough decisions.
I am more interested in an organizational reevaluation of what they value. The banning of the shift should lead to a return to valuing contact and limiting strike outs. Also an increase in the value of the stolen base with limited throw overs and bigger bases. Is there more emphasis on range defensively and better defenders that the shift can’t hide.? AF is no dummy and I would be shocked if they have not identified qualities and attributes that are more valuable now. This should inform their off season decision making. Finally, please stop with the signing of injured pitchers at a discount. As was mentioned we have had way too many pitchers these past few years either rehabbing, coming off rehab, or dealing with recurring injuries. We should try to grow some of own power arms as relievers instead of developing every single pitcher of note as a starter. Could we not have given Stone, Pepiot, Miller or Knack a chance in September out of the pen?
Some thoughtful stuff NHD. I especially agree with your point about the Padres not overachieving in the playoffs but rather underachieving during the season. We were kidding ourselves to think they were no threat.
I did say productive, not star. I don’t expect for them to produce MVPs or cy youngs every year. But they’ve produced no productive players from their farm system since 2019.
Not counting Smith, buehler and May or Lux, can you name me one player WHO GRADUATED TO THE MAJORS AND BECAME A PRODUCTIVE REGULAR? Since 2019? Name one.
The players you are naming are still developing in the minors. Guys like Vargas, cartaya. im not counting until they are actively producing in thr majors, playing everyday and making an impact with the big club.
That’s the point of the farm system is to produce productive mlb regulars. The point is to have those players on the big league club and playing productive baseball regularly.
Vargas and cartaya may well become productive players but there are not there yet.
So my point again is to ask if you can name one player produced since 2019 not named Smith, May or Lux that is producing at the major league level at a high level? I can’t name one.
Since 2015 can you name anyone other than Buehler, May, Smith and Lux? Ok that’s 4 players (not 3 as I stated earlier) in 8 years. Not a good track record.
Gonsolin.
You said name 1.
16-1 with a 2.14 ERA. All Star.
How about list the MLB teams that have produced better players since 2019… who also have winning records. Those that did tanked. Completely tanked. They didn’t produce productive players while also winning every year. Anybody can tank and stack up top 5 first round picks. It’s literally the easiest thing to do in baseball. We are the envy of all baseball in terms of player development.
Fair enough. We can count Gonsolin. Although to be fair he was a role player until this year. So 4 or 5 in 8 years? Is that good?
Honestly I don’t care what other teams do. Yes some teams tanked and hoarded draft picks and the Dodgers didn’t do that. But you have to draft well whether you tank or not.
Just look at the 2021 Giants. They didn’t win the world series but they had several players come from their farm system in that year alone who produced at high levels. Yastremski, Estrada, Lamont wade, Logan Webb just to name a few off the top of my head.
Look at the Guardians too. The best player development system in baseball should be able to produce more than 5 players in 8 years.
Verdugo earned an everyday job with the Red Sox, but he is far from being a star.
Agree, and Verdugo, bellinger and seager were all drafted and signed under Colletti.
Also. Just noticed you said 2015.
Bellinger may have sucked the last two years. But he has won a ROY and MVP since 2015.
Seager won ROY in 2016.
I’m really at a loss. This conversation is starting to remind me of a Monty Python scene.
https://youtu.be/Qc7HmhrgTuQ
Bellinger and Seager were both drafted under the Colletti era. Bellinger drafted and signed in 2013. Seager drafted and signed in 2012.
Thanks for letting me rant. Last night hurt. A lot.
Last thing I’ll say. We need to add heart to this team. I’m a huge Bear fan. And I’d rather have the heartbreak the Dodgers have produced the last decade than what the Bears of done to me. I’m a Bear fan for only one reason. Having just 4 or 5 channels to watch growing up, I was starved for sports. Watched the Dodgers and Lakers. When I couldn’t watch I went to bed with a radio next to my pillow. I really started paying attention in 1983/84. And I watched all the local highlight shows. George Michael’s sports machine. Joe Roggin (a local LA highlight show). And at that time there was one guy who owned the highlight reels on Sunday night. It was Walter Payton. That’s why I’m a Bear fan. My first football memories were watching Payton (and the Bears) at their prime. It wasn’t just that he was great on the field. He was the greatest competitor I’ve ever seen. And one of the most charismatic team leaders I’ve ever seen.
Give me the heart of Walter Payton. The Dodgers need heart. They need to learn to fight for every inch. Payton saw many more losing seasons than he did winning seasons. But he never let up, win or lose. If he was a Dodger in 2022. He would have been disgusted.
https://youtu.be/D7YXps2xUfM
Im headed to the miami-bears game nov 6
My 2nd game this year at soldier field. But yes we suck
But real fans do that stuff!
Last thing I’ll share.
Texted a friend who’s a Dodger fan. Asked how he was doing. He just sent me this.
https://youtu.be/DEKyx_eTxBQ
Words of a fool
We need some player the have some fire. Humberto was the closest thing we had. When we had Puig it was fun to watch the games. We had some great players who never get fired up. We don’t have a team leader. Seems like everybody wants to look too professional. How bout bring in some fire. Andrew we need players who hate to lose . Throwing water on each after hitting a home run is not fun. We are Los Angeles home of entertainment. Please put out a team the is exciting
Dave Robert’s does not coach how he played. Remember the stolen base the help win the World Series.
Time to make a change we need a young coach with exciting ideas. Don’t fire Dave he is great for the Dodgers but not as manager. Maybe hire to be front office person
For those of you calling for Dave Roberts head on a pike, the chances of that happening are ZERO. 2022 was the last year of Dave’s previous contract. 2023 is the first year of his three-year extension. They could obviously eat the contract, but that is not happening. Also, who would you hire to replace him? You need a great ego manager, since there are a lot of ego’s in this dugout. Most are team players and only want to win. I will also say I respect Mookie Betts a lot after he stepped up and took responsibility for his bad performance. So did Freeman.
If that is so than our chances for another WS title are ZERO .
You know the definition of insanity. Doing the same over and over again yet expecting different results.
Either bring in a new manager with a different approach or overhaul the roster. The current combination does not work. For whatever reasons.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!
Well Ram, there have been numerous reports that the Dodgers have no intention whatsoever of firing Roberts, so live with it. My list of players who will definitely be back, you don’t see a name, I doubt they are Dodgers next year. I will probably miss badly on some, but that is to be expected. Guys out with major injuries, ie Buehler, Hudson, also will not be on my list. Position players. Muncy, Taylor, Betts, Freeman, Lux, Smith, Vargas, Barnes, Outman, also my list is not including the fringe guys and rookies like Vivas and Amaya. Pitchers, Almonte, Gonsolin, Urias, Phillips, Graterol, May, Gonzalez, Vesia, Treinen, Grove, Pepiot. I think Martin might be offered a deal, if so he will accept. Everyone else, including Edwin Rios are on shaky ground.
I will live with it, not that I have another choice because I surely will not kill myself over the Dodgers. 🙂
But just as sure will not devote as much time of my life to them as I did in the past. My wife will be happy about it.:-).
No more nightwatches for games that do not start before 1 am or 2 am CET or even later, no more full archive games day after day, no more 15 hours flight to attend spring training or a week in LA during the season etcetc.
Too many heartaches, too much frustration, too much time wasted . I am getting too old for all of that only to watch them get humiliated year after year because of the same mistakes .
This franchise with its huge, huge fanbase , their financial abilities are classic underachievers and if they do not change their course nothing will change.
Now some could rightfully say , Hey, that is what the Dodgers always have been. A very good regular season team but below average in the playoffs. 21 pennants but only 7 WS titles. After all, They are the Bums who always wait til next year . But after this season I do no longer have the power and the enthusiasm to endure all of that frustration. At least that is what I feel these days.
I will always be a diehard Dodger fan who bleeds blue , will follow the team and their course, watch some games and cheer for them but from a little more distance.
Maybe this is the right time now that Vin has passed away and with him a huge part of the Dodgers.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!