The discussion between Bear and B&P on the use of drugs in Baseball got me to thinking. Drugs of some kind have been in vogue in some fashion as long as I have been following baseball. I may not have been aware of it, but it was prevalent. A number of former players have become open with their confessions.
Bear on numerous occasions has expressed in his opinion, steroid users are cheaters. If I remember correctly, part of his feelings for Yasmani Grandal were due to this point. But it all comes down to the definition of cheaters when it comes to pharmaceutical enhancements. I have a different definition.
PorpoiseBoy intimated that the possibility of earning millions of dollars is enough to push ballplayers to steroids. I know of one player who chose to forego steroids. My son was one of those AAAA players presented with the opportunity to take steroids. In fact, it was heavily suggested. We talked about it. We went through the pros and cons, and he ultimately decided not to take steroids. It was all his decision. I made no suggestions or recommendations. It was highly intimated by more than a few that not taking steroids hurt his chances of sticking in MLB.
I first became aware of the use of amphetamines in the game after reading Jim Bouton’s Ball Four. I read the book when it was first published (June 1970), and read it in one sitting. The book was intended to be a diary of his 1969 season with the Seattle Pilots. As an aside, 1969 was the one and only season of the Seattle Pilots. The team filed for bankruptcy and was moved to Milwaukee to become the Brewers. But it was so much more.
The book was certainly controversial when written. Despite its controversy at the time, with baseball commissioner Bowie Kuhn’s attempts to discredit it and label it as detrimental to the sport, it is considered to be one of the most important sports books ever written, and the only sports-themed book to make the New York Public Library’s 1996 list of Books of the Century. It also is listed in Time magazine’s 100 greatest non-fiction books of all time. Kuhn tried to force Bouton to sign a statement saying the book was completely fictional, which Bouton refused to do.
Players on opposing teams not mentioned in the book were also upset with Bouton. Bouton broke the proverbial unspoken rule about clubhouses, which my son has confirmed; “What you see here, what you say here, what you do here, let it stay here.” My son mentioned a couple of things in privacy to me, and I will never reveal what he said. I am guessing that Phil Jones may also corroborate this point.
Besides comments made about Mickey Mantle’s drinking issues and other occurrences while with NYY, the book went into a lengthy discussion on the use of “greenies”, speed, bennies, amphetamines, whatever you want to call them. The use of amphetamines even predates the 60’s. The decades-long abuse of Dexedrine and Benzedrine, for example, actually began in the 1940s, after ballplayers had been exposed to amphetamines in the military during World War II. It has been reported that HOF slugger Ralph Kiner was initially shocked to see players abuse such drugs, but he eventually said, “All the trainers in all the ballparks had them.” The use of amphetamines was certainly not a secret with the owners and trainers. But as MLB often does, when the sport does not want to bring a negative light on their assets (players), then they turn their heads and ignore the situation. The drugs were only hurting the players, but those same players were playing excellent baseball and the sport was doing well.
Over the last few decades, more and more stories came to the forefront. Former RHRP Tom House, perhaps best known for catching Hank Aaron’s 715th home run ball in 1974 in the Atlanta Braves’ bullpen, said he and several teammates used amphetamines, human growth hormone and “whatever steroid” they could find in order to keep up with the competition.
“I pretty much popped everything cold turkey,” House said. “We were doing steroids they wouldn’t give to horses. That was the ’60s, when nobody knew. The good thing is, we know now. There’s a lot more research and understanding.”
House estimated that six or seven pitchers per team were at least experimenting with steroids or human growth hormones. He said players talked about losing to opponents using more effective drugs.
“We didn’t get beat, we got out-milligrammed,” he said. “And when you found out what they were taking, you started taking them.”
House said he gained almost 30 pounds while using steroids, blaming the extra weight for contributing to knee problems. He said the drugs helped improve recovery time and conditioning but did not add velocity to his fastball.
What baseball fan can forget the great 1998 HR derby between Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa? Every night baseball fans were tuned in to ESPN looking to see who hit HRs that day. Were they juiced? This topic took center stage when an AP reporter, Steve Wilstein, peered into Mark McGwire’s locker in the Cardinals clubhouse while waiting for the first baseman to emerge after a game and noticed a brown bottle with the long word on it. We now know what that long name was…Androstenedione. Shortly thereafter Wilstein filed the following AP report:
“ST. LOUIS (AP) — Sitting on the top shelf of Mark McGwire’s locker, next to a can of Popeye spinach and packs of sugarless gum, is a brown bottle labeled Androstenedione.
For more than a year, McGwire says, he has been using the testosterone-producing pill, which is perfectly legal in baseball but banned in the NFL, Olympics and the NCAA.
No one suggests that McGwire wouldn’t be closing in on Roger Maris’ home run record without the over-the-counter drug. After all, he hit 49 homers without it as a rookie in 1987, and more than 50 each of the past two seasons.
But the drug’s ability to raise levels of the male hormone, which builds lean muscle mass and promotes recovery after injury, is seen outside baseball as cheating and potentially dangerous.
“Everything I’ve done is natural. Everybody that I know in the game of baseball uses the same stuff I use,” said McGwire, who also takes the popular muscle-builder Creatine, an amino acid powder.”
The purpose of Andro, is to increase the production of the hormone testosterone to enhance athletic performance, build muscle, reduce body fat, increase energy, and keep red blood cells healthy. McGwire said that he took the hormone so that he could increase his workout regimen. His body recovered more quickly. It also aided in helping with minor injuries.
Please note that Andro was legal in MLB. It was considered a dietary supplement. It wasn’t until “January 2005 legislation went into effect in the United States called the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004. This reclassified androstenedione from a dietary supplement to an anabolic steroid, which is a schedule III controlled substance.” So technically, McGwire was within the rules. He says he stopped using Andro because of the message it might send to “kids”. However, he saw nothing wrong with the usage for adults.
Is Andro considered juiced? Was Sammy juiced? Sammy continues to deny the accusations, however in 2009, the New York Times reported he was on a list of players who had tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs in 2003. Certainly the HOF voters believed Sammy to be juiced. His numbers certainly would qualify him to be enshrined:
609 HR – 6 consecutive years with 40+
1,667 RBI
2,408 Hits
.273/.344/.534/.878
18 years
McGwire has subsequently admitted to the use of steroids. He and others were also proponents of Creatine which became a huge supplement down into the High School level. It appears that McGwire was absolutely correct when he noted that “kids” were watching.
One might think that MLB was serious about PEDs. In 1990, Congress cracked down on anabolic steroids with the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, which effectively made them an illegal drug. The next year in 1991, MLB Commissioner Fay Vincent made it clear in a memo that this was very much relevant to baseball.
Via ESPN.com:
The possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance by Major League players and personnel is strictly prohibited. Major League players or personnel involved in the possession, sale or use of any illegal drug or controlled substance are subject to discipline by the Commissioner and risk permanent expulsion from the game…
This prohibition applies to all illegal drugs and controlled substances, including steroids or prescription drugs for which the individual in possession of the drug does not have a prescription.
So this supposed to stop the use of steroids. And yet we know it did not. Why? Labor issues were becoming far more of an issue and there was a group of owners who wanted to get rid of Fay Vincent. Vincent believed the owners were colluding, and the owners did not like it. A group of owners led by Bud Selig led a coup to oust Vincent. Selig would not say there was collusion, but Vincent was not so shy. He stated:
“The Union basically doesn’t trust the ownership because collusion was a US$280 million theft by Selig and Jerry Reinsdorf of that money from the players. I mean, they rigged the signing of free agents. They got caught. They paid $280 million to the players. And I think that’s polluted labor relations in baseball ever since it happened. I think it’s the reason MLBPA executive director Donald Fehr has no trust in Selig.” But that is for another post.
MLBPA was not going to do anything that would curtail players production, and the owners were too busy fighting amongst themselves, so steroid use was not addressed. It was perceived as MLB recognizing that steroids were illegal, but looking the other way and adding…”Just don’t get caught”.
So what happened in 1990’s. The 1991 season saw noted juicer Jose Canseco lead the American League with 44 homers. Three years later in the strike-shortened 1994 season, the league’s slugging percentage rose to .424. The last time it had been that high was 1930, the year Hack Wilson set the single-season RBI record. But that was just a precursor of things to come.
The 1996 season proved to be a historic one. A total of 17 players hit at least 40 home runs, a mark that still stands as a major league record. Brady Anderson, whose previous career-high had been 21 homers, launched 50 homers. He would become the poster boy of steroid use in MLB. Ken Caminiti came into the season with a career-high of 26 homers in a season, and he proceeded to launch 40 homers on his way to winning the NL MVP.
Early in the 1997 season, MLB Commissioner Bud Selig issued a memo that essentially rehashed what was said in Fay Vincent’s 1991 memo. According to Tom Farrey of ESPN.com, the memo stated that steroids were illegal in baseball, and it urged clubs to make sure players knew it.
But there was still no testing and no clear-cut punishment for using steroids. The open invitation to use them was still, well, open.
Naturally, the power surge didn’t subside. A dozen players hit at least 40 homers in 1997, with Mark McGwire leading the way with 57. The next year saw as many as four players hit at least 50 homers for the first time in MLB history, with McGwire and Sammy Sosa both breaking Roger Maris’ single season record of 61.
MLB was still ignoring the issue but pretended to get serious by beginning to test MiLB players for PEDs in 2001. They were not about to punish MLB players, but they wanted to look tough. And the MLBPA had no interest in helping MiLB players. There was random testing and light penalties. And yet that was the season that Barry Bonds broke McGwire’s single season record.
By the time the 2002 season rolled around, the suspicion over steroids in baseball was growing. As much as they were enjoying the remarkable feats of Steroid Era stars, fans were becoming increasingly wary of how these feats were being accomplished.
That summer, Tom Verducci of Sports Illustrated pushed the envelope and wrote:
“Steroid use, which a decade ago was considered a taboo violated by a few renegade sluggers, is now so rampant in baseball that even pitchers and wispy outfielders are juicing up—and talking openly among themselves about it. According to players, trainers and executives interviewed by SI over the last three months, the game has become a pharmacological trade show.”
MLB and MLBPA finally addressed the issue in their 2002 CBA. But it did not have nearly enough teeth. Survey testing began in 2003, but there was no punishment associated with usage. The survey showed that 5% of the players were juiced. I think that reads a little low, but it is what it is. Neither MLB nor MLBPA wanted this issue properly monitored. Too much money being made.
Then in 2004 MLB got really serious (LOL). The new policy:
“Any player testing positive would immediately enter the ‘Clinical Track’ to be treated for steroid use. If a player under treatment fails another test, is convicted or pleads guilty to the sale and or use of a prohibited substance, that player would immediately be moved to the ‘Administrative Track’ and subject to discipline.”
What were the results? Nine players hit at least 40 home runs, and the league’s .428 slugging percentage was actually higher than the league’s slugging percentage during Barry Bonds’ record-breaking 2001 season.
By the end of the 2005 season, a dozen players had been hit with PED suspensions. Among those punished was Rafael Palmeiro, who had said this to Congress only a few months earlier:
“For the MLB, 2005 was at best a bittersweet season. The league finally had a system of penalties in place to deal with PED users, but the high amount of suspensions revealed that A) players were still using and B) that 10 games for a first-time offense wasn’t going to be enough to convince them to stop using.”
In 2006, MLB decided to get serious and dramatically increase the penalties. Selig also decided to appoint former Senator George Mitchell to head an investigation of the history of PEDs in baseball.
Willie Mays became a part of the discussion during the Pittsburgh Drug Trial. John Milner testified his first introduction to a liquid amphetamine called “red juice” was from a bottle he took from Mays’ locker. Milner also said that amphetamines were regularly placed in his own locker when he was with the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1978 through part of the 1981 season. There have been numerous reports that Mays regularly used Red Juice while with the Giants. Willie denies it.
In 2005, Jose Canseco, perhaps the biggest and longest tenured juicer in MLB wrote a book called “Juiced: Wild Times, Rampant Roids, Smash Hits & How Baseball Got Big”. Canseco named Mark McGwire, Juan González, Rafael Palmeiro, Iván Rodríguez, and Jason Giambi as fellow steroid users. A-Rod and has tested positively for PEDs, and Mike Piazza has been connected with them as well. Even though Canseco admits to PED usage, in 2010 he told ESPN that the impact of steroids were vastly overrated.
“Let me give you a perfect example,” he said. “I have an identical twin brother, Ozzie. He is the closest thing to me genetically. And in my prime, I was a super athlete. I was the fastest guy in the game. I was 240 pounds and I could hit a baseball 600 feet. The best arm in the game. My twin brother used the same chemicals, same workouts, the same nutrition. Why didn’t he make it in the big leagues?”
Even with the spotlight clearly on players using PEDs, players are still trying to find the edge. There is an exemption for players with ADHD. Drugs prescribed to treat ADHD often contain amphetamine and methylphenidate, stimulants on baseball’s banned list. Exemptions for hyperactivity disorder had ranged from 105-119 annually from 2008-19.
Many players now are “hooked” on Red Bull. Anything to get an edge.
I differ with Bear. The use of greenies, bennies, speed, and amphetamines by any other name is a drug that was used to enhance the players ability on the field. It did not necessarily show the increased body weight often associated with steroid use, but players acknowledged they could not have played effectively without “something”. How many used amphetamines or steroids? We will really never know the true number. But IMO it is a long list.
Amphetamines and steroids are pharmaceutical supplements to improve athletic ability. There was no other reason for players to take these drugs. Amphetamines are now on the list of banned substances. So should players accused of “greenies” usage be removed from HOF?
Cheating? Sure. But I have had enough conversations with former professional baseball players that I am convinced that the vast majority of those that took steroids did so to help with their recovery process and conditioning. Some did to gain the muscle for the extra couple of feet. Guys like Brady Anderson and Ken Caminiti probably did. But Barry Bonds did not need steroids to improve his HR swing. He needed to stay healthy throughout the season. Bonds used to dress in armor and sit on the plate, and that was considered legal. He dared anyone to throw it inside. Steroids did not improve how fast his hands got through the ball.
How about players who have had laser eye surgery to improve their eyesight? Are we sure all needed that surgery? All athletes are going to push the envelope to maximize their results. Fans have enjoyed the McGwire/Sosa HR battles. The Barry Bonds march to 73 and 762 were exciting. I had access to season tickets to Pac Bell Park in 2001 and was there on October 5, 2001, when Barry faced LAD and Chan Ho Park and hit #71 and #72. The Dodgers won the game, but Barry Bonds and MLB were the clear winners that night.
Bottom line for me…Stop the PED usage as much as one can. Penalize the player, absolutely. But do not penalize those that are clearly HOF players. Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, A-Rod, McGwire all have HOF numbers, and maybe PEDs assisted to a degree, but how much? Their talent was unmistakable and should be rewarded. I know that Bear has supporters in the baseball community that want a crackdown. Many are from a group of sanctimonious and self-righteous baseball writers who think they are more important than the players. But the dissenters voices are loud. IMO there should be no distinction between amphetamines and steroids. There usage was for the exact same purpose. Cheat the system. But for me, I want all of them added to HOF, if warranted. I do not want to go to Cooperstown and read about Harold Baines but not about Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe, Roger Clemens, and Sammy Sosa. If MLB feels that they need to add an asterisk, go for it. Just acknowledge the player for his accomplishments.
I apologize for the length. This could post could easily have been twice as long and still needed more.
Cardinals to sign Steven Matz, 4 years $44MM guarantee (could get to $48). Seems like a fair deal. Might be a year too long, but the AAV is about right. I like Matz. I wish him well except against the Dodgers.
Great stuff Jeff. I am not the most schooled person as to drug usage. But I have seen too many lives ruined by drugs, so that is one reason I am so vehement against them. I resisted the temptation to use them in the service, and did the same when it came to driving trucks. I knew oh so many guys using speed. I would tell my dispatchers that there was not a load in the world that was worth my life or the life of some person in another vehicle that I might crash into. I ran legally. I kept my logbooks legal, and I never had one single late delivery unless there was a weather delay. As a fan, we do not like our hero’s tainted. Everything I ever saw of Hank Aaron he was a humble person and a great ambassador for the game. I saw Rose and all those guys play as did you. I thought Rose played the game harder than any player I had ever seen. He was not the most skilled athlete on the field, but he made himself into one of the best. His case and Shoeless Joe’s are a lot different than the PED guys. Gambling on ones own team is perhaps the biggest taboo there is. And we all know it is because gambling almost caused the games downfall. Now Jackson and his team mates were acquitted but still banned after the 1920 season. Jackson was the only real Hall of Famer among the Black Sox 8. Cicotte had similar numbers to Don Drysdale. He probably would have gotten some votes from the golden age committee, but his numbers are shy of enschrinement. Rose is a different case entirely. First off, he accepted the ban. He has never shown any remorse or admitted anything. Yet there were piles of evidence against the guy. Betting on your own team when you are in a position to affect the outcome of that game simply with a substitution is a huge no no. The rules against gambling are posted in every MLB clubhouse. Pete knew the rules, and chose to break them. He is the one player who I have zero sympathy for. Like the Stros, I do not think players or teams should reap the benefits of cheating and breaking the rules. Call me a hard ass, but that is the way I feel about it. If Rose is placed in the hall after he passes away, well so be it. But I do not want to see him making money, and a lot of it simply because he can sign P.Rose, HOF on a baseball he charges 400 bucks for. Your son chose not to use PED’s. I applaud him for that choice. I have a friend who’s son pitched in the majors. He got a 80 game ban for using a substance to help him heal faster. He regretted it, but his career was on idle and he wanted to be back on the field. He now works in sports health in Phoenix.
Cards have a pretty decent rotation if they all stay healthy. Matz, Mikolas, Flaherty, Wainwright and Dakota Hudson.
Well-written
A’s signed Ryan Castellani. He used to be with the Rockies.
Thanks for the article, Jeff. I love the history of the game aspect you, Bear and others bring to this site. I followed baseball closely from 1974 on, but lost track in the 2000’s. I could keep up with the standings, but world circumstances kept me away from the details. Now that I am retired, I appreciate catching up through your experiences!
Good stuff Jeff, and I applaud your son for making his choice of how he would approach the profession of baseball. I could have detailed my thoughts more clearly yesterday by writing more, but sometimes work gets in the way of that …. well, for another 5wks. That your son decided to avoid using any kind of PED still does not take away from what I said. Just seeing what & how you write tells me your son grew up in a pretty stable well adjusted household. What about some kid from the DR, or Mex, or Venezuela? Being told that a PED will give him the “extra” 2-5% that might turn him from a AAA player to a true MLB one? I just refuse to judge someone who comes from a circumstance that I cannot really relate to. I have a similar attitude to things like taking away Reggie’s Heisman. A guy literally helping pull in MILLIONS for a college program & everyone thinks he should be grateful for his “free education”. Well, I have never eaten a “free education” so I cannot put a number on that, but I can put a number on how much $$cabbage$$ is sitting out there for a tier 1 college FB player. And since I refuse to judge a circumstance I have not lived, it just does not bother me like it does others.
Again, good write up.
cheers
pb+
I went to high school from 80 to 85. During that time and right after a lot of the football players would buy “supplements” from GNC over the counter. One day a particular supplement would be on the shelves, the next day it would be gone, banned for containing some kind of anabolic steroid and then another would take its place on the shelves. All to be had by going to the store and picking it up like groceries.
With stories like AC mentioned about greenies in the clubhouses and special “coffee” being brewed in clubhouses, I have doubt there were many clean players from the 50’s all the way through the end of the century. Even when my son played in high school just 8 years ago, players on his team were juiced. Just because someone wasn’t caught, doesn’t mean they weren’t doing it. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.
Not everyone get’s jacked by doing roids. I don’t recall Brady Anderson getting huge and I don’t recall Lance Armstrong getting bulked up either. A-Rod was no Barry, Jose or Big Mac physically. So, just because you think a certain player didn’t get giant like Bonds, it doesn’t mean he wasn’t roiding.
Brady Anderson was definitely juicing!
Kapler too.
Kapler definitely!
I know this second-hand. And Pedroia.
What Lance was doing was mainly blood doping. Not saying he did not do other things, but that is the main “offense” in cycling. You take your blood out, spin it to separate the red cells out just like is done during plasma donations. But instead of putting the red cells immediately back in the “save them up” and then the day b4 a comp, they re-inject their own red blood cells back into their bodies ( to be exact it is the hemoglobin in the red cells that is the issue ) theoretically giving them greater ability to process O2 for a short time. There is a limit set on your red cell load & that is how they test and catch “cheaters”. So not even a true PED use, you are just giving yourself extra red cells for a short time, but supposedly helps especially with mountain climbs at altitude.
cheers
pb+
ps ….. sometimes EPO is also used to increase the hemoglobin …..
Jeff, impressive how you were able to Photoshop Brady Anderson’s head onto your physique. Well done.
Why did you have to go and spoil my secret?
I have always wondered if pitchers juicing evened out the stats hitters gained from using the same juice.
As I remember the minor leagues were able to test for use before those in the Show were. Paul LaDuca and other AAAA players in the Show kept some from moving up. Bonds was headed to the Hall regardless of using. It’s the LaDucas can’t get past.
Thanks for the research AC and for adding perspective. If I could vote I would vote Bonds in the Hall. Sosa also had the corked bat use so maybe he at least should not get in in the same year as Bonds.
George Brett was also caught with a corked bat. Gaylord Perry threw spitballs. Both unquestioned HOF players. Did both cheat?
Pine tar.
He was also rumored to have corked. Have no idea if true, and I do not have the source as I read it while he was still playing. Just reporting what I read. It does not discount that he is in my top 2-3 best hitters I ever saw. In my research for this article, it was also reported that Sosa also corked his bat. Choose to believe or not.
Sosa was caught red handed. He was using a corked bat that he used in BP in a game and the end of the bat popped off and the little ball they used popped out.
Do trash can bangers who end up with the stats to get in also get in?
I would not vote them in, but I am not impartial. I bet that Correa, Altuve, and Bregman will get votes, and if they continue on their current path, could very well get in.
my thoughts too. DAMNIT!
Spitballs a lot different than using drugs, and Perry was caught maybe once. True story, Elston Howard used to sharpen his knee protectors and would scuff the ball before returning it to Whitey Ford. It made Ford’s curve even more devastating.
Wow Jeff, what a well researched and well written piece. You really covered the history of Baseball’s handling of steroids and other PEDS very comprehensively, at least as I remember
Back in my day, I personally never took greenies but I know guys who did. It’s pretty enticing when your dog-ass tired after no days off. You’re dinged and sore. You had a 13 hour MiLB bus ride, fueled on left over hot dogs from the concession stand. Sleeping uncomfortably in a bus seat (I actually slept in the luggage rack above the seats) on all night rides, don’t exactly make you fresh as a daisy for the game the next day. Your mind and body are tired. And guys want to play well. Many need to produce or fear release. That is a big motivation to take greenies even in the minors.
Every clubhouse had 2 rules posted on the door; Don’t touch an umpire and NO gambling. 2 documented original sins. There were other things that were no-no’s but not listed on any door. You could be black balled from teams and leagues if you were strongly suspected or caught being a thief. Stealing from your teammates obviously violated the sanctity of the clubhouse. Another, as Jeff reported was talking outside the clubhouse. Or narcing on your teammates. Lots of things you saw or know about, went unsaid. Drug use and womanizing was kept between teammates. (much changed in later years when wives and girlfriends travelled with the team)
When Ball Four came out I was playing in the minors. There was certainly conversations about violating the clubhouse rules of silence. We also loved it. Besides funny it was a primer for us on life in the Big Leagues.
As Jeff points out years later, steroids slowly eased into the picture. We knew nothing about steroids in my day. We though they were only used by body-builders and strength sports like shot-put and discus. The eye opener for me was when Ben Johnson, a sprinter, got busted.
Around 2000, I had a conversation with an ex-high school star we coached, who was a AAA player and getting close. Just like Jeff’s son, he had decided not to juice. And he was discouraged that guys who were inferior players coming up were suddenly going by him, possibly due to PEDs. As Jeff reported MLB had a study (by whom?) around 2002 stated steroid use was 5%. My ex-player said it was more like 75% while MLB had their tongue in their check reporting there wasn’t a steroid problem.
What a farce that whole period was. MLB finally took a “strong posture” to crack down on the drug problem.
In the late 90’s and 2000, Creatine became all the rage with high school kids and and our football players were dropping like flies due to cramping.
In retrospect, some of the players who admitted guilt, even before it was banned by MLB, seemed to get “Get Out of Jail Cards” while others have never gotten a stay of execution. Interesting public perception.
Jeff made clear the differences between fans who support lifetime bans from the HOF and other, like Jeff, who have a different opinion.
Again Jeff, awesome post. Thanks
Thanks. My son was in tears when players he knew he was better than getting called up and he knew they juiced. To him it just wasn’t fair. How could we not agree?
The sad thing for me was that nobody questioned the hitter he was. What he was chastised for was how he looked in a uniform. Teams wanted the Brady Anderson look. When Andy was in HS, the regional scout was very high on him and he brought out the cross-checker to watch him against Jeff Suppan. Unfortunately, Soup did not pitch that day, and when the cross-checker saw Andy and discovered that Soup was not pitching, he left. When the regional scout asked, the cross checker told him that he wasn’t interested. When the regional scout said that you haven’t even seen him hit, the cross-checker said “We already have a John Kruk, we do not need another”. Ironically, 4 years later, the Phillies drafted him, and Andy and Kruk became friends. When Andy got his 1st ML hit, Kruk was on Sunday Night ESPN and when it was his turn to say something special about that day, he mentioned that “after 7-8 years in MiLB my former teammate, Andy Dominique, got his first ML hit off Eddie Guardado today. Congratulations Andy.”
As it is so often, the Phillies were not wrong that year. They did draft a High School 3B in the 2nd round…Scott Rolen. I would say they made a good choice. Scott is still on the HOF ballot, and should remain there through ten years. IMO, Scott falls into that very good baseball player, just not elite. But neither was Harold Baines or Bill Mazeroski. Actually Scott has much better offensive numbers than Maz, and they both were 8X GG winners. So it wasn’t the defense.
I don’t know how many here caught the Fall Ball Championship game on MLB channel. I had to record it for Sunday viewing due to my menu of college football last Saturday.
Fun watching the prospects. A couple of things stood out.
* The ABS was in use and as I have seen before with it, it was accurate and seamless. It appeared that few knew it was in use at Salt River. The home plate ump got bitched at by fans, as usual, for missing pitches. A few pitches were strike that usually are not. Players who are used to a strike zone more egged shape had quizzical looks when high and up and high and away pitchers were called strikes. Catchers also continued to frame pitcher. I don’t know what MLB needs to see more if it’s going to be implemented.
* A 24 yr old 6’4″ RHP stole the show. Caleb Kilian tossed the first 6 innings perfectly. No nothing with 8 or 9 K’s. He was in the Kris Bryant deal and went to the Cubs from SF. Got to AA last season. Turbo sinker at 96, tight little slider, curve and change he didn’t need to throw. Kid’s gonna be a stud. I would love to see the Dodgers deal some AAAA guy or 2 for this kid.
Happy Thanksgiving to all of you and your families. Have a safe and enjoyable holiday.
Here’s the latest Seager quote from AF…
Seager’s obviously meant a great deal to us looking back. And I think we have a pretty demonstrative track record with guys that we know well and have been with us. We’ll be aggressive to try to retain. That being said, we have a lot of other really talented players as well and a whole payroll to look at and manage. He’s a great player. He’s gonna get a great contract rightfully so and time will tell how it kind of plays out.
To me, I feel about 80% certain a deal gets done. He’ll get paid fairly by the Dodgers and he wants to return.
No excuse for it not to. Unless some team makes a dope fiend offer.
Another really interesting piece Jeff – thanks for all the effort.
I might be alone here, but I would move on from Kershaw and pay Scherzer for two years with an option.
Like Mookie, I’ll be amazed if Clayton avoids surgery in the next year.
Gavin Lux will be a very good player wherever the Dodgers choose to utilise him next season.
Losing CT3!will leave a massive hole.
According to BR, the SS of the Dodgers was No. 2 in all of MLB, Great player, it will be very difficult to find another like him, he is a star and one of the best, sign him:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2949769-mlb-player-rankings-for-the-top-25-shortstops-of-2021-season
Below is an article on former KC RHRP, Kyle Zimmer who was just released by KC, cleared waivers and became a FA. Former 1st round pick in 2012 (5th overall). Maybe the LAD development team can turn his career around. Maybe a MiLB contract with a ST invite. Didn’t hurt with Brandon Morrow.
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/11/royals-release-kyle-zimmer-free-agent.html
Wade Davis announced his retirement… unfortunately his career was over a couple of years ago!
Hiyo!
Great writing Jeff. You make some excellent points, with plenty of personal experience. This topic is often full of hyperbola and grandstanding. It’s nice to see some level headed writing on the subject. I do, however, have a somewhat different perspective. There are levels of cheating. And and the punishment should fit the crime.
I am very sympathetic to MiLB players who chose to use PEDs. It was obviously pretty rampant in MLB by the mid 90s. For many, it was about putting food on the table or helping family in desperately poor countries. If you’re from the Dominican Republic, one or two MLB seasons can set your family up for life. Even at the MLB minimum salary. And I certainly sympathize with those who were so desperate to follow their dream that they made such a choice. Knowing that they were competing against players on PEDs. It’s human and I can be understanding. Even if I wouldn’t make the same choice myself.
However, I don’t want any of the obvious PED users in the HOF. They weren’t cheating because they were desperate to make an MLB roster. They did it for more money, more fame and more adoration. They already had all three. in spades. But it wasn’t enough. And I will judge them accordingly. Just as I would judge two thieves differently if one was impoverished, desperate and hungry and the other was rich and simply out looking for a thrill. Barry Bonds was a first ballot HOFer prior to using any PEDs. He was also among the highest paid players in baseball. He used PED’s for ego. Nothing more. He should never have a plaque in Cooperstown, IMHO. Same applies to Rodger Clemens, Palmaro and several others.
And I know amphetamines were being used for decades and that there were some PED users likely going back to the 60s. And I’m sure it helped some players play better. But long term use of amphetamines (even at a low dose) have serious health consequences. We will never know how many players careers were cut short because they destroyed their cardiovascular system from the drug use. And many casual amphetamine users end up dependent on other drugs to counter the side effects (such as insomnia). I’m sure it helped some, but I suspect the use of greenies did as much damage as good (insofar as long term performance). In the past, professional sports were full of all kinds of practices (condoned and/or encouraged by the team) that we now understand were not only dangerous for the athlete but counterproductive. Think NFL team’s massive over use of pain killers, cortisone shots, lidocaine and countless other practices. We now know that whatever benefit an athlete might gain in the very short term isn’t worth the near term consequences on performance. Which often means more injuries, longer recovery times and countless other side effects. These things destroyed careers early. I suspect amphetamine use likely did as well. So I don’t put it in the same category of the “PED” era in MLB insofar as it’s impact on the game.
And steroid users up until the late 1980s were guinea pigs. Typically taking advise from local gym rats about how, what and why. I’m sure some players were successful after using PEDs. But I’m also sure there are players who’s careers were cut short because they hadn’t a clue what they were doing and it took a tole on their bodies. The impact on the game wasn’t terribly noticeable. What changed in the 90s was the perfection of the science which minimized side effects and maximized the enhancement to performance. It not only became noticeable it began to change the nature of the game itself. Which is why to this day I resent both MLB and the MLBPA for not acting faster to curb the use. And adamantly disagreed with Selig being in the HOF for that very reason.
One last note: Jeff you mentioned Shoeless Joe Jackson. I put him on an entirely different level. Most fans are not aware that he was on the HOF ballot twice. He only received 2 votes each time. The permanent ban list wasn’t recognized by the HOF prior to Pet Rose’s retirement. Being part of a conspiracy to throw the WS is a very different level of cheating, in my mind, than greenies or even roids. He admittedly took money from gamblers to toss the series. I think there is a significant amount of evidence that the only reason he had a solid WS performance was that he didn’t receive the second round of money he was promised. He thought Chick Gandal double crossed him. He as much as said so in his grand jury testimony. To me that legitimately disqualifies him from the HOF. Period.
Great article.
I want to wish all of you guys a Happy Thanksgiving. It is snowing here in Canon City. And about 30 degrees….brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Rams owner paying the City of St.Louis 760 million to settle law suit…..thats a lot of cabbage.
You too, friend. I am currently with wife’s family in Camano Island, WA.
All the best to you now and in the future.
Thank you DL. I hope you and yours have a really great day. I am spending the day with our drummer and his family.
FA pitchers:
Seems a few teams are competing for Ray & Gausman, namely Seattle, NYM & Toronto.
I see them as connected. Not sure where Scherzer fits in.
SF is going after more reasonable contracts. They’re not standing still; they’re lying in wait.
Stroman also belongs in that group.
ESPN Hot Stove Survey:
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/32690231/mlb-hot-stove-survey-where-star-free-agent-shortstops-land-spend-big-execs-weigh-in
In that vein, we polled 20 team executives and MLB insiders from across both leagues about free-agent landing spots and who’s likely to get moved in trades this offseason. Voters were assured anonymity and were given the option to skip any questions that hit too close to home.
Javy Baez: Mets 10, Astros 3, Rangers 3, Cubs 2, Mariners 2
Carlos Correa: Tigers 10, Rangers 6, Yankees 3, Astros 1
Corey Seager: Yankees 12, Tigers 4, Rangers 2, Dodgers 2
Marcus Semien: Mariners 8, Tigers 5, Rangers 4, Blue Jays 3
Trevor Story: Rangers 8, Tigers 5, Astros 3, Yankees 2, Mariners 2
That survey may have been taken before Joel Sherman and others came out with the story that the Yanks might have decided to wait a year for one of their two hotshot shortstop prospects and spend their money on pitching and centerfield instead.
Mets owner calls out Matz’s agent as unprofessional. Seems he thought Mets had a deal in place to bring the lefty back and then he signed with the Cardinals. Tsutsugo is going back to the Pirates on a one year 4 million dollar deal. It was cold earlier. It is frigid now. 18 degrees. Ice on the roads…….
Mets’ Matz Mess
AF said on High Heat that he expects some movement/announcements about FA signings around Thanksgiving and shortly thereafter. I expect next week to be quite active on the FA market. Corey Seager needs to be signed for 6 years and $185 million.
Happy Thanksgiving!