Career Leaders: LA and Brooklyn

Posted By on September 3, 2021

Hope everyone is well. I was just perusing the 2021 Media Guide. A really good source of information for fans. Unfortunately, they no longer sell them. So Mark got me the download site and now all that info is on my computer right at my fingertips. And the first subject I thought I would touch on is career defensive leaders at all the positions. One of Eric’s favorite subjects. Now, these players are not rated by dWAR. They are listed by Fielding Pct. And they had to have played 300 games at the position listed. One thing you will notice on these lists, most of the players played in LA. There are a couple of reasons for this: (1) A superior and much better field to play on; and (2) Baseball gloves are much bigger and more flexible than the old ones.

Catcher

#5. Russell Martin coming in at .990. Martin played for the Dodgers for 6 years. He was a solid presence behind the plate. He called a good game and had a decent TOS pct of 30%. #4. Paul LoDuca. LoDuca comes in at .991, as does Tom Haller. LoDuca played 7 years for LA. He also caught 30% of the base stealers. He had a decent bat. But I do not remember much about his game-calling skills. Tom Haller came over from the Giants in a trade in 1968 and played 4 years with the Dodgers. Tom was a very good game caller, and a solid receiver. He caught 35% of the runners trying to steal. # 2. Yasmani Grandal. .995. This one I find hard to believe, but stats do not lie. I guess passed balls do not count against your fielding pct. Grandal had 43 passed balls as a Dodger. He also played 4 years for the team and was considered one of the best framers in the game. He was not very good at throwing out runners. His caught stealing pct is 26%. # 1. AJ Ellis. Ellis comes in with the highest fielding pct of any catcher who ever played for the Dodgers. .997. AJ played 9 years for the Dodgers. He was for years, Kershaw’s personal catcher. AJ did not hit for a high average, but his career OBP as a Dodger was .340. He was excellent at calling games. Compared to Grandal, AJ had only 34 passed balls in his 11-year career. His caught stealing pct is 33%. He also hit .365 in 17 post-season games. Grandal an abysmal .125 in 36 games. Only Martin ever received a Gold Glove.

First Base

#5. James Loney .994. Loney played 7 years in LA before he went to Boston in “The Trade”. 2008 was the only season he ever had double figures in errors. Solid hitter, but not a lot of power. # 4. Eddie Murray .995. The Hall of Famer came to LA in 1989. He played for the Dodgers for 3 years. Although he never repeated his Gold Glove-caliber seasons with LA, he was nonetheless steady at 1st. He won 3 Gold Gloves with the Orioles. # 3. Adrian Gonzalez. . 995. The Butter and Egg Man was a solid player and steady glove at 1st after arriving from the Red Sox. He played 6 years for LA, not only providing solid defense but becoming the Dodger’s steadiest run producer. He won 2 Gold Gloves with the Padres and one each with the Red Sox and Dodgers. The last coming in 2014. Tied for # 1. Wes Parker and Steve Garvey. .996. Parker joined the Dodgers in 1964. He was part of the World Series Champs in 1965. He was not a great hitter or power source, but he was a wizard with a glove at first, and when he occasionally played the outfield. Wes did finish with a .267 career BA. He won 6 consecutive Gold Gloves at 1st from 1967 to 1972. Steve Garvey joined the Dodgers in 1969. Originally a 3rd baseman, he was moved to first base because he had a lot of trouble making the throws to first. I think the Dodgers were worried about the fans sitting behind first getting injured. After playing the position sporadically, Garvey moved there for good in 1974. From 74 to 77 he was a Gold Glover at the position. It did not hurt that he also was a very good hitter.

2nd Base

# 5. Delino DeShields .980. DeShields barely cleared the 300 game limit in his 3 years in LA. Traded for Pedro Martinez, he never was quite the player he had been in Montreal. Never won a Gold Glove. Made 153 errors in 13 years in the majors. # 4. Charlie Neal .980 . Charlie joined the Dodgers in 1956 in Brooklyn and played for the Dodgers for 6 years. He went to the Mets in the expansion draft after the 1961 season. A .259 career hitter, he had some pop and hit 73 HRs in his 6 seasons with the Dodgers. He played 8 total seasons and had 68 errors at 2nd base in 663 games. He also had a great 1959 World Series hitting .370 with 2 HRs and 6 RBI’s. # 3. Alex Cora .981. Cora joined the Dodgers in 1998. He played 7 years in LA and was considered an excellent defender with not much pop in his bat. Another player who barely cleared the 300 game minimum, was also a SS. Only made 106 total errors in 14 seasons. Now the Red Sox manager. # 2. Mark Grudzielanek .983. Mark joined the Dodgers in 1998. He played 5 seasons in LA. In his first two seasons in LA, he was primarily a SS. But in his last 3, he was the regular 2nd baseman. He later won a Gold Glove with the Royals. # 1. 983. Jackie Robinson. We all know Jackie’s story. But he played 3B, 1B, OF, and 2nd base during his tenure as a Dodger. But getting most of his work at 2nd.

3rd Base

# 5. Tim Wallach .964. Tim joined the Dodgers in a trade with the Expos in 1993 when he was 35 years old. He spent 3 years as the Dodger’s primary 3rd baseman. He was a very good hitter and had a steady glove at 3rd. Like most 3rd basemen, his error total at the hot corner was high 240 in a 16-year career at 3rd.

# 4. Billy Cox .964. Billy joined Brooklyn in 1948 in a trade with the Pirates and spent 7 of his 10 major league seasons with the Dodgers. He was considered one of the best glove men of his era. A career .262 hitter, Billy also played 2nd and some SS. He had a .302 BA in 15 World Series games. # 3. Justin Turner .967. JT as we Dodger fans like to call him has been a Dodger since 2014 and now is in his 8th season in the blue. Signed as a free agent after his release by the Mets, he has become a very valuable piece of the Dodger roster. He has also played some 2nd base, SS, and 1B for the Dodgers. He is a career .295 hitter in the postseason. # 2. Casey Blake .966. Huh? Some might say. Blake is another barely over the 300 game mark playing a total of 374 games at 3rd for the Dodgers. Some will be surprised that Ron Cey did not make the list. But Penguin’s career fielding pct at 3rd was .961. # 1. Juan Uribe .978. I was as surprised as anyone to see Juan at # 1. He was a Dodger for 5 seasons. And played most of those games at 3rd. He had a solid bat, and I did see him make some impressive plays at 3rd. But it was usually his flair for the dramatic hit that caught your attention.

Shortstop

# 5. Rafael Furcal .967. When I think of Furcal, I think of a pretty decent fielding SS with a very good bat. Furcal joined the Dodgers in 2006. His biggest detraction was that he only played 3 full seasons at SS. The rest of the time he had partial seasons due to recurring injuries. He never won a Gold Glove, but he was a career .281 hitter with some power. # 4. Alex Cora .968. Cora was a Dodger long enough to acquire the needed games to also qualify on the SS list. # 3. Dave Anderson .970. Anderson was a light-hitting infielder who played 2nd and 3rd along with SS. He played 8 years in LA and 2 with the Giants. He joined the Dodgers in 1983 and caddied for Bill Russell until he retired after the 1986 season. # 2. Corey Seager .970. Surprise! Corey made the list. Solid hitter, he sometimes makes miscues on very easy plays. But overall he is steady and usually makes up for a gaff with his bat. # 1. Cesar Izturis .980. Izturis was a so so hitter, but he was an excellent defender. He had a cannon arm and had the range to get to balls most SS cannot. He joined the Dodgers in a trade with the Blue Jays and played 5 years in LA.

Outfielders

# 5. Juan Pierre .987. Juan played for the Dodgers from 2007 to 2009. He was a decent hitter, and an excellent outfielder and base stealer. He played LF and CF mostly for the Dodgers. He made a total of 40 errors in the outfield in 14 seasons in the majors. One of their better free-agent signings. # 4. Dusty Baker .987. Dusty came to the Dodgers in a trade with the Braves after the 1975 season. He spent 8 years with LA as the primary left fielder. A solid bat, he was a member of the first group of four players from the same team to have 30 HR’s or more. He joined Reggie Smith, Ron Cey, and Steve Garvey by getting his 30th on the last day of the season in 1977 off of J.R. Richard. It was his only 30 HR season.

# 3. Joc Pederson .990. Joc was a center fielder when he arrived in 2014. He ran some of the best routes to the ball of any CF in the league. But he was later more in RF and LF than Center. He was a low average high power hitter. But he was solid at all 3 outfield positions.

# 2. Goody Rosen .991. Goody Rosen was primarily a center fielder who came up to Brooklyn in 1937, He played 6 seasons in the majors. 5 with the Dodgers and his final season with the Giants when he was sold after appearing in 3 games. He backed up all of the Dodger outfielders during that time.

# 1. Brett Butler .996. No big surprise here. Brett was fleet of foot and could run down almost any ball hit his way. He was a solid bat and a prolific bunter and base stealer. He spent parts of 7 seasons with the Dodgers. He left in 1995 and signed with the Mets, but they traded him back to the Dodgers in August of that same season.

Pitchers

The criteria to get on the list as a pitcher is a minimum of 200 total chances. Any pitcher who did that could make the list. One thing you will notice with this list is that all of the pitchers except one played in Brooklyn. # 5. Dazzy Vance .979. Vance pitched for the Dodgers for 12 seasons. He won 191 games. He is in the Hall of Fame. He joined the team in 1922 at the age of 31.

# 4. Dutch Reuther .979. Reuther joined Brooklyn in 1921 and pitched for them for four years. He finished with a 54-52 record as a Dodger winning 21 games in 1922. # 3. Odalis Perez .980. Only LA Dodger on this list. He joined LA in a trade with the Braves after the 2001 season and pitched 5 years in LA. He compiled a 45-40 record.

# 2. Curt Davis .985. Curt joined Brooklyn in 1940 and played 7 years for the Dodgers. He had his best season in 1942 when he was 15-6. Overall as a Dodger, he compiled a 66-54 record.

# 1. Freddie Fitzsimmons .985. Fat Freddie as he was called, which is strange because he was 5’11 185 lbs, guess that was considered fat back then joined the Dodgers in 1937 after 13 seasons with the hated Giants. His best season in Brooklyn was 1940 when he went 16-2. He won 20 for the Giants in 1928. He pitched as a starter and a reliever for Brooklyn and posted a 47-32 record as a Dodger. His overall record was 217-146.

Well, there you have the list as it is posted in the 2021 Media Guide. If you like you can probably ask Mark to post the link to download it. Some surprises on the list. I would have expected players like Hodges, Campy, Snider, and Reese on there. Have a great day, and let’s play some DEFENSE!

This article has 169 Comments

  1. It really is kind of surprising that certain big stars are not there and then sometimes lesser-known players are. I am pretty sure that as Bear wrote about Yasmani Grandal, he threw up in his mouth! 😉

    Yasmani was a player I had high hopes for. I predicted 30 HR for him but the best he has done is 27 and 28. However, his proclivity for passed balls became intolerable to me. That and his disappearing in big moments. He will likely end up being TOP 25 or 30 in WAR for catchers of all time. He is currently #36, ahead of Mike Sciosca, Elston Howard, BJ Surhoff, and many others. Yasmani is a “walking contradiction.”

    1. Remember that he couldn’t catch a ball at the plate that was thrown from a fielder either! Yasmani drove me crazy!

    2. Yeah Mark, that was really hard to stomach. I actually amended this post for the second reason most of the players are from the LA era. The equipment got better. Fielders gloves, especially outfielders, are bigger and more flexible. Catchers mitts and firstbaseman’s mitts are more flexible too. Mark if you can, would you post that link to the Media Guide? Thanks.,

        1. No problem my friend. I found it interesting that they go to St. Louis from SF, just like they did in 1959. Only this time it is a four game series instead of two at the tail end of the year.

      1. Has anyone heard of Ken Ravizza? He was a famous sports psychologist from Cal State Northridge who worked with many MLBers. Justin Turner credited him with turning his game around.

  3. Nice write up Bear. Delino DeShields for Pedro Martinez will go down as one of the worst trades in Dodger history along with Tommy Lasorda while acting as GM’s trade of Paul Konerko for Jeff Shaw .
    On a positive note our 2021 first round pick Maddux Bruns had a better outing in the ACL last night than his first outing 2IP 2H 0R 0ER 1BB 2K

    1. Difference was Konerko had no place to play and the Dodgers needed a closer badly. And remember, the Reds traded him to the White Sox and he was a super star there. I still think the worst in terms of how the fans reacted as the Piazza trade.

  4. Brett Butler! My man! Because of him I became a Dodgers fan. I fell in love with him while he played in Atlanta….followed him to LA.

    Well, how does it feel waking up with no drama from the previous night and no result needed to check on, and knowing you are in first place, albeit tied?

    It feels great!

    I see we will be facing a lefty tonight, so I hope I don’t see Wonderful William batting 8th again. This is my dream lineup:

    1. TTurner
    2. Mookie
    3. Marvelous Max
    4. JT
    5. Wonderful William
    6. Seager
    7. Pollock
    8. CT3 ( he’s cooled off a bit so we should reduce his stress)

    Go Dodgers!

    1. Dude, Wonderful William sounds like a man crush. The Will that Thrills, or the Thrill that is Will are better…..He never goes by William even though it is his given name.

  6. Very good write-up Bear.

    But I disagree with you on the Paul Konerko trade. He could play first, third and outfield, mostly left field. It was a huge mistake to make the deal to send Konerko to the Reds for Jeff Shaw. In Lasorda’s mind the Dodgers were a closer away from being on top. But that was a reach and it didn’t work out. Although Shaw got the job done most of the time, it was always an adventure. The Dodgers with no clear path back to championship play should have bet more on the future than the present at that point in time. Don’t think Fred Claire would have made that deal with most people thinking Jim Bowden picked Tommy’s pocket.

    The Dodgers finished third in 1998 in the NL West, 15 games back and third in 1999, 23 games back. In 2000 Shaw was downright mediocre, his ERA climbing to 4.24.

    The worst trade, of course, was Pedro Martinez for DeShields. You can blame the decision to make this deal on Jody Reed who turned down a seven million dollar plus multi year contract to continue playing second for the Dodgers. One of the biggest miscalculations by a player and his agent in the history of the game. He ended up playing elsewhere for $300,000 plus.

    As to Martinez, the Dodgers were convinced he wouldn’t hold up long term. The DBacks did the same thing with Max Scherzer, trading him because they felt he would be injury prone.

    But yes, you’re right, Bear, trading the face of the franchise, Mike Piazza, was no doubt the hardest trade to swallow. But for the record, I absolutely hated all three trades. I would have said no to all three, but then no one from Dodgers asked my opinion, including those clueless Fox execs.

    1. Actually Tommy picked Bowden’s pocket. And Bowden was screwed again that winter when he traded Konerko to the White Sox for Mike Cameron. He only played 26 games for the Reds. And where was he going to play in LA? He was blocked at first by Karros. Piazza was still the catcher. They had rookie of the year Hollandsworth in left, Butler in CF and Mondesi in right. He had no where to play and was blocked everywhere. It was 2005 before he really took off as a power hitter who could hit 40 HR’s and drive in 100 every year. So maybe Claire would have elected to trade Karros at some point. We know even though he was the GM he did not even know the FOX guys were trading Piazza and it was one of the main reasons he left the position and Lasorda replaced him., Piazza was there at the beginning of the year in 98. , and you knew they were not going to let Konerko catch over their big trade piece, Charles Johnson. And Sheffield came over so the outfield was Luke, Mondesi and Sheffield. They had Luke, Eisenreich, Hubbard, Hollandsworth, all to play the outfield. LoDuca was backing up Johnson. Konerko played some 1st before he was traded. But he did not impress hitting .215 with 4 homers. Tommy was the catalyst in the Martinez trade. He thought he was too small to be an effective pitcher over the long run even though he went 10-1 his rookie year. DeShields was a knee jerk reaction to Reed leaving for sure.

      1. But Hollandsworth was injury prone and had less than 200 at bats in ’98 and less than 300 in ’99, had a terrible effort in 2000 and got traded during the season to the Rockies.

        We’ll just have to disagree, Bear, with who picked the pocket. Tommy was out of his element as GM and had to do a quick deal to overpay Shaw because of an opt out clause in his contract, if traded, as I recall. That came out after the deal was done.

        No question, Bowden didn’t know what he had in Konerko. I heard an interview with him a few years ago on MLB radio about that trade. He admitted he made a mistake trading Konerko, said he didn’t want to trade Shaw, but was ordered to do the deal to save money.

        I just wasn’t a Jeff Shaw fan. Had a couple of good seasons, but with lots of base traffic, then went downhill. He really didn’t make much difference on those teams, which finished well out of the running. He definitely wasn’t the difference maker Lasorda envisioned. LA finished 11 games out in 2000 and in third place in 2001 behind the Diamondbacks and the Giants.

        Konerko played left field. But I thought he was the future first baseman for the Dodgers. Karros was pretty good up through 2000, then fell off dramatically.

        1. I’ll Stick to my guns on this one. Reds traded a quality reliever and got 26 games out of the guy they got, then traded him for a CF who never really did much. Konerko was 5 on the depth chart as an outfielder, Luke had a decent season, Hubbard and Cedeno were better outfielders. Konerko was marginal as a catcher anyway, and Karros was entrenched at first. Does not matter what Hollandsworth did. They were more than covered in the outfield so he was expendable. You are right about one thing though, Tommy was no GM, but the deal was approved by new ownership. Oh one other thing, Cameron played one season with the Reds and then was part of the trade that brought Ken Griffey Jr to the Reds. So Bowden made up for it a little. Griffey was never the player he was in Seattle after he went to the Reds, mostly because of injury’s. He had just one season over .300 and one 40 HR season.

    1. Go to the index and pull up history and records. Then on page 263 it lists the top 5 in fielding in Brooklyn and LA Dodger history.

  8. Just overlooked it glossary is on page 3
    I figured Mark is pretty busy so I thought I’d try to help out

  9. Can someone clarify a question, please:
    If LA and SF end the season tied, is there a playoff game to see who goes to the wild card and who wins the division?
    It seems like a silly question, but after so many rules and changes, I’m not sure anymore.

    1. It would be just like 2018 was with the Rockies. Season record dictates where the game would be played. Since they are 8-8 right now, someone will be ahead come Sunday. But we do not need that kind of thing because the loser, has to immediately play the one game play in game against the 2nd wild card. A pox on you for even bringing that up! LOL

  10. I believe there would be a one game playoff on Monday Oct. 4th and the home field would be determined by the season series record.

  12. OK I know B&P will accuse me of “beating a dead horse” and I suppose he is right. However, yesterday’s repeated posts about Doc taking Max out without the poster having access to some very important information has made me beat it. Baseball America has come out with a “best tools” ranking where they polled Managers, Scouts, and Executives on many categories. They did it by league. The NL’s “best Manager” were ranked 1. Counsell, 2. Roberts, and 3. Tingler. So, the experts in the game rank him #2 in the NL. He has the highest winning percentage of any Manager in baseball history (I know he has had great players but again so did Sparky Anderson, Joe Torre, Bobby Cox, etc without achieving the same level of success). I truly believe it is OK to criticize some of his moves, but wanting Doc gone borders on insane. He truly is one of the best ever. B&P, I’ve said my piece for the last time.

    By the way, the whole survey can be found on Baseball America Best Tools. Enjoy the ride for the next 28 games and on into the post season. It’s going to be great.

    1. JayB,

      Don’t use “Facts” to confuse him.

      His mind is already made up!

      As a rule, misinformed people do not change their minds once they have been presented with facts that challenge their beliefs. But beyond simply not changing their minds when they should, research shows that they are likely to become more attached to their mistaken beliefs. The factual information “backfires.” When people don’t agree with you, research suggests that bringing in facts to support your case might actually make them believe you less.

      In other words, fighting the ill-informed with facts is like fighting a grease fire with water. It seems like it should work, but it’s actually going to make things worse.

      To study this, Brendan Nyhan and Jason Reifler (2010) conducted a series of experiments. They had groups of participants read newspaper articles that included statements from politicians that supported some widespread piece of misinformation. Some of the participants read articles that included corrective information that immediately followed the inaccurate statement from the political figure, while others did not read articles containing corrective information at all.

      Afterward, they were asked a series of questions about the article and their personal opinions about the issue. Nyhan and Reifler found that how people responded to the factual corrections in the articles they read varied systematically by how ideologically committed they already were to the beliefs that such facts supported. Among those who believed the popular misinformation in the first place, more information and actual facts challenging those beliefs did not cause a change of opinion—in fact, it often had the effect of strengthening those ideologically grounded beliefs.

      It’s a sociological issue we ought to care about a great deal right now. How are we to correct misinformation if the very act of informing some people causes them to redouble their dedication to believing things that are not true?

      1. What fact? If you ask everyone what their favorite color is and most say Blue, does that mean the best color is Blue? Is that factual?

        It’s funny you mention this study about people forming an opinion, but unwilling to change it based on facts presented afterwards. Refer to our conversation about using Smith instead of Bellinger as an example.

        You: I’ll answer that. You don’t want to burn your only other catcher in case of injury to the starter. You will seldom see Smith pinch hit unless it’s really urgent. Same deal with Barnes.

        Me: (Paraphrasing with a fact) They do it in 25% of their games (I showed my math – undisputed facts, not opinions)

        You: I am not saying they don’t do it. I am saying they don’t do it often and usually, it is late in the game.

        Me: (Subtle insult) Is the bottom of the 7th not “late”

        You: Crickets

        I find it a little ironic that you reference a study that perfectly described this conversation.

        By the way, is Alex Verdugo still Tony Gwynn-esque? Would you still rather have him than Mookie?

        1. I go crickets because if I stand toe-to-toe with you, I will have to slice you up into small pieces and it still would not be effective.

          There is a scripture in the Bible that applies here:

          Proverbs 27:22: No matter how hard you beat a fool, you can’t pound out the foolishness.

          1. Translation: I generally walk away from arguing with fools or rolling with pigs. I see no value in it, but they love it!

          3. Proverbs 16:18

            Pride goes before destruction,
            And a haughty spirit before stumbling.

          7. “And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.”
            ― Friedrich Nietzsche

      2. Don’t forget about alternative facts people will accept regardless of not meeting the smell test if they don’t like the real facts.

        People are comfortable making stuff up more these days because people will repeat it.

      3. Where were these people from? I’ve got a book here, Fred recommended it, “American Nations – A History of the Eleven Rival Regional Cultures of North America”. The Shiates, Sunni, and Kurds have nothing we don’t have and more of it.

        That group you refer to, you ask the same questions to people from the Deep South, Yankeedom, El Norte and the Far West, you won’t find consensus. Throw in folks from New France, Greater Appalachia and the Midlands and your likely to have a riot break out.

        As for information, what can you do when people don’t believe in science and math? How are people expected to respond when someone stands there, lies to our face and claims “alternative facts”.

        Yeah, we’ve got a problem. That problem is simply people choose to believe what they choose to be true. I don’t see that changing any time soon.

          2. You just don’t want to hear of the atrocities we have committed.

            The point was missed. Not surprised.

            This country IS divided. Not admitting we have a problem doesn’t help solve the problem.

          3. The fact that a person of your age having that opinion is actually A LOT of the “problem” dude. But as noted, equating the differences between various cultures and their disagreements & sometimes their clashes to muslim extremists is silly, counterproductive, and borders on insanity. Tantamount to speaking bullspit into power.
            Back to ECCL 10:2 for you dude.

          4. Bible quotes. Really?

            Whatever … .dude.

            You missed the point. But again, I’m not surprised. I won’t try to explain historical cultural challenges existing within our own country. I know from your response here you would not understand.

          5. You hold yourself in such high regard for a fossilized dude like bsanders.
            It is actually you who are trapped in a stew of leftist memes and ideas. I read of a study just today where people on the left are the most likely to “cancel” friends, family, & others for political views as opposed to those on the right. You bear that out. Sorry about the bible making you uncomfortable, I will try to find something applicable to you from a communist manifesto or something you are more comfortable with. Don’t wanna give you a heart attack or anything. You keep reading your marxist books & keep deluding yourself that ANY kind of real socialism works. Mister history buff.

          6. The point was about tribalism, and you are making that point. We are divided, and it would appear we will remain so.

    2. You go with what you have, At the time he pulled Max, no one, not even the announcers had a clue why. And he looked fine in the dugout talking and joking with some guys on the bench. No one knew he was out of the game until Graterol started warming up on the mound. Now, had Graterol had a clean inning and not surrendered the lead I doubt anyone would have muttered a word. But with it looking like nothing was wrong with Scherzer, fans went nuts, including me. When Vesia gave up the go ahead HR it made it look even worse. And with all the frustration over how the offense has looked all year, most felt that the way they were hitting that night they were going to blow another shot to make up ground on the Giants. As it happened, they came back and won the game and then AFTER the game we all found out Max had a barking hammy. I am not going to apologize for being just a wee bit pissed when he came out of the game. Baseball needs to do a better job of communicating stuff like that during a game. When Albies hit that ball off of his knee and was taken out of the game, there was no report on him until the next morning. But during the last 3 innings, there was nothing reported on Scherzer at all. SO you can see why fans who do not know what the bleep is going on get just a wee bit irate when it looks like their team is going to lose another 1 run ball game. Instead they pulled out a one run win. As for Roberts, I do not bash Dave all that much. But over the years, he has made some head shaking moves. And he is not a great in game tactician. That aside, he has been successful and led his team to division titles, and 3 World Series while at the helm. But highest winning percentage after the limited amount of time he has been a manager means little. Stengel has more titles, but managed some pretty bad teams before he managed the Yankees and all he had to do to win was write the names on the lineup card. Mantle, DiMaggio, Maris, Berra, Ford….he had many great players. More than Torre ever did. I think at this point Roberts is probably in the top 5 in the NL. But wait until he manages for 15 or 20 years before you hang any best of all time stuff on him.

      1. Just what I thought you’d say Badger. Of course there’s been atrocities in this country. And we are somewhat divided. The difference is we try to overcome our weaknesses

          1. I’m sorry you’re such a bitter man Badge
            I’m sure you’ll want the last word but I’m done

    3. I saw that piece. Whenever I look at things like this, I want to know how they arrived at their rankings. This particular article was derived from the results of a survey conducted by Managers, Scouts & Executives, but didn’t list any backing data. It makes me wonder if everyone voted, or if some just threw it in the trash, didn’t see it and didn’t respond, etc.

      The thing that I found most curious is that Craig Counsell was taken over Dave Roberts even though his managerial record is nowhere close to Roberts’. So much for record being the overwhelming authority on whether or not a manager is good.

      I also thought it was pretty weird that Jayce Tingler was listed as third, even though he’s only managed a little over a year at this point in time.

      The American League is even weirder with Bob Melvin taking the top spot. Bob has had a very up and down career. He began by inheriting a 93 win team with the Mariners and turning it into at 93 win team the next year. I would call that holding server. The next year, however, he managed to produce 99 losses! That’s got to be one of the worst turnarounds ever! Somehow that got him the D-Backs job where he was 3 games under 500 and being fired at the beginning of his 5th year. Maybe he learned how to be a good manager over time and I guess he built a reputation with the A’s. He has a career record of just .515., so I guess best manager is a pretty low bar.

      Fun fact, my son played youth baseball with Bob’s nephew Ryan. Ryan was a really nice kid, loved baseball, but just wasn’t very good at it. His dad was also a very nice guy.

      Anyways, I thought it was interesting the the top three in each league was about as diverse as UN Meeting ranging from Old as Dirt Dusty Baker managing the cheating Astros, baby Jayce Tingler. Do more with less Bob Melvin, Kevin Cash and Craig Counsell and our own Mr. Magoo.

      I surmise there is nothing meaningful to the managerial rankings.

      https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/all_30_mlb_managers_ranked/s1__34502618#slide_1

      I have a funny story for you. Not a week after you were offended by me using the term “Cholo”, I was eating a fish taco at my favorite joint for those beer battered delicacies at Normita’s. As, I’m sitting there, I noticed a guy on a cruiser wearing the Cholo uniform of Nike Cortez’s high white sox, tan Dickies Short’s an oversized white T with a “wife beater” underneath. Topped off with wrap around sunglasses, shaved head, complete with mustache and goatee.

      Of course, I walked up to him and said “Hey, homie” can I ask you a question? He nodded yes, without words. “Do you find the term Cholo offensive? His face lit up as he laughed, then responded “What the fuck do you think?” As I laughed back with him I responded that it sure doesn’t seem like it. I explained I just wanted to win an argument that I explained to him, and he called you an idiot for thinking it was an offensive term.

      Not to flog a dead horse or anything…

      1. Agreed. I LEARNED the word from the Whittier area gangs I grew up with in the 70’s. It was no way considered an insult to them & they freely used it amongst themselves.
        Along with Vato, Homie, Homes, Homeboy, Chica, etc.

    4. JayB, I don’t find a survey of opinions as something that is fact based. There’s a lot of lists out there on the Internet ranking MLB Managers and none have Roberts on the top, even though he has a better record than everyone else. What does that tell you?

      You can keep flogging a dead horse, but there are no relevant statistics to use to judge a manager’s value. Most analytic driven front offices have basically reduced in game decision making to a script prepared by their analytics department and have reduced the manager to a glorified baby sitter. This is the current trend in the here and now, it won’t last forever, the game constantly evolves.

      Based on opinions from this site, I hear the following regarding Doc.

      He’s not the best in game decision maker, but he runs a good clubhouse.

      He’s a great communicator.

      He’s got the best record ever.

      It’s funny that it’s just about consensus that he’s not good at making decisions in game. I hold that to a higher value than most apparently. Other hold babysitting and resting players to a higher value apparently.

      But, I can’t ever remember any manager criticized as often as Doc does for his in game moves. Even J-Hair, Hartung and Nomar call him out regularly.

      As far as being a great communicator goes. I just do see anything to suggest that. I don’t ever hear his players say that. I watch most of this interviews and he stumbles over his words, contradicts himself constantly, uses too many acronyms, never gives much reasoning beyond I like him in that situation, etc.

      I hold Doc to the high standard of Tommy Lasorda who managed the team before they decided to outspend everyone. Tommy was a motivational speaker, he gets quoted constantly and won two World Series and Olympic Gold, each time being the underdog in EVERY Championship his team played in. Those are all facts that point to his prowess as a manager. Sure, he made some bad decisions along the way, but never with the frequency as Doc.

      Believe what you want. Time will tell the story and maybe Doc will get better as time goes on. But a survey result isn’t going to “prove” anything.

      1. I think it is you beating a dead horse.

        One can take an Anti-Gabe Kapler Stance or an Anti-Joe Maddon Stance and since just about every decision made in baseball is subjective and 70-75% of pitches thrown lead to an out, you can fault every manager just like you fault Roberts. I don’t know what your issue is with him, but just about everyone can see your arguments are irrational.

        I don’t know how to rank managers, but one would have to start with winning percentage… and with Pennants and Championships. It also has to do with managing a clubhouse and how players perceive you.

        The comedic value of this is that Dave Roberts decisions are the direct result of input from the front office, so if you are going to bash Dave Roberts, you really should include a healthy round of Andrew Friedman bashing.

          1. How about what they did with what they had to work with? Plenty of stats out there for a statmeister to run with. As in, the guy that did the most with the least.

        2. “The comedic value of this is that Dave Roberts decisions are the direct result of input from the front office”

          How in the world can the front office make in game decisions while the game is going on? Does Doc wear an ear piece? Do they call Doc on the phone?

          1. They might. But they definitely have guys in the dugout with reams of stats that I am sure have been vetted by the FO that pretty much say “statistically this is the best move in X situation”. Doncha think?

          2. How can they have every possible situation covered?

            I don’t buy that a computer manages games. I can buy that the manager’s role has been reduced, but not eliminated.

            Doc ultimately makes decisions during the game. Therefore I will point my finger at Doc when I see an obvious decision making mistake, not at a computer.

  13. Who could have scripted this?

    September 3

    Tied for first place with the Giants

    3 games to play with them is all that are left.

    That means one team will hold the “tiebreaker” by record against each other. There will be no tie.

    I think the matchups are set.

    1. Price with a short leash (the pen will be fresh)
    2. Urias – He needs to pitch his career game. ONLY this time would I let him pitch past 5 innings.
    3. Striker – He needs to cement his Cy Young.

    I like how it stacks up! Even though many criticized Dave for resting Julio an additional day.

    I joke about it, but really it is like a dog that barks and never stops! All he knows how to do is bark!

    1. Julio already pitched his career game. If he never throws a pitch for the Dodgers he already has cemented his place in Dodgers history with his unbelievable performances in Game 7 of the NLCS and Game 6 of the WS last year.

      Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  14. Dodgers Release Yaisel Sierra
    By Steve Adams | September 3, 2021 at 10:31am CDT

    The Dodgers have released right-hander Yaisel Sierra, as first reported by Francys Romero of Las Mayores (Twitter link). He’d been pitching with the team’s Triple-A affiliate in Oklahoma City.

    While Sierra may not be a recognizable name for some, he was at one point a highly sought-after international free agent. Sierra defected from Cuba in 2015 and established residency in the Dominican Republic, at which point he was declared an international free agent. Because of his professional experience in Cuba, he was exempt from international bonus pools and able to sign with the highest bidder. Both the Cubs and Marlins were reported to have made offers, but the Dodgers landed Sierra by signing him to a six-year, $30MM Major League contract in Feb. 2016.

    Obviously, that deal looks regrettable in retrospect. The now-30-year-old Sierra has yet to pitch in the Majors and has scarcely pitched above the Double-A level. He tossed 16 1/3 innings with the OKC Dodgers this season but was clobbered for 25 runs on 36 hits (six homers) and 12 walks. Sierra did punch out 18 batters in that time, but he also threw a staggering 11 wild pitches in those 16 1/3 frames. Overall, he has an 8.36 ERA in 37 2/3 Triple-A innings and a 5.43 ERA in just 179 total minor league innings.

    1. Andrew, I remember Yaisel Sierra. He got a 6 year, 30 million dollar deal but didn’t really need the money, as I heard it. His mom was loaded with Cuban Sugar Money. I’m sure you’ve heard of “The Treasure of Sierra’s Madre”.

      1. I just wanted to acknowledge your pun, Phil. Either it went over everyone’s head, or more likely, they had the discretion not to comment on it!

        1. Yeah, I thought I was being pretty funny actually. But only you 2 mentioned it. Most everybody is too busy arguing maybe? I though Bear would say something. No sense of humor anymore?

          2. Dude… I totally got it & you got a sly smile from me. Just did not want to come down with “posting diarrhea”. Now look what you did! 🙂
            cheers
            pb+

          3. I have a sense of humor, I was just focused on something else in the moment. I always thought his Madre was his treasure…Good movie though. Bogie was great.

        1. Yes, that’s how I recall it. Crazy to think the better player was the add on, eh? Puig is kinda like Billy Bean’s story. A gifted athlete that never lived up to expectations beyond that first wonderful streak.

          1. Yeah, kinda sad in the context of what he could have been.

            BUT,

            Pretty uplifting in the greater context of his life.

  15. Good, interesting stuff Bear. Thanks for your work.
    I have a question about your list. I see 2 current Dodgers on your list, Cory Seager at short and JT at 3rd, so player of the current generation are eligible for your list. Bellinger is a plus defender at 1st and outfield. I looked it up and his fielding % at first is .995, tied with A-Gon but Belli only has 261 games there, so he doesn’t qualify. But in the outfield he’s at .989 in 373 games, tied with Dusty Baker at #4.
    What did I miss?
    Again, thanks for the research, Bear.

    1. Not sure why the Media guide did not catch that. 300 games in the outfield would qualify him for a spot on the list. Actually Baker and Pierre were both at .987. So Bellinger would be in front of both of those guys. Bellinger makes the list for a one season high at first with a .997.001 behind Garvey. That stat shows up on his baseball reference page. So the amended list would have Belli in 4th place right behind Pederson. We will go with that. You did not miss anything. I was going by the media guides list.

  16. Today this isn’t exactly the best site for Dodgers fans. Tomorrow will be better here especially after a win tonight. I guess a day off isn’t good for fans, but if it does players better then it’s all good.

  17. I see now SF is going with DeScalfini instead of Long tonight. The schedule shows Long scheduled to pitch Saturday. Now why would SF pitch a mediocre guy like Long instead of Logan Webb? Webb’s last outing was 8/28 in which he pitched 7 innings of shutout baseball.

    The last time Long pitched was against Atl and he gave up 6 runs in 4 innings.

    Unless they plan on pitching Webb Sunday.

    Now that I’m thinking of this, I bet SF makes Saturday their bullpen game. Long may only pitch 1-2 innings. They probably don’t want our boys to see him a 2nd time.

    So, I’m thinking:
    Descalfini
    Bullpen
    Webb

      1. Oooops….me bad (again)….

        I wrote down Lauer as the pitcher of record, but he was Milwaukee’s pitcher, not SF. You guys are correct again…..Webb can’t pitch.

        Wow, they might end up having two bullpen games unless they pitch Cueto, which is a strong possibility seeing that he pitched on 8/31. Sunday is 9/5 so he has 5 days from last start, and as i recall, he didn’t last long that game either.

    2. Webb started yesterday’s game against the Brewers and went 7 very strong innings.
      We got lucky.

  18. Remember how we played against the Rox?

    I hope the decimation of the Giants pitching staff doesn’t lead to a similar outcome.

  19. Today’s beat the Giants lineup:
    T Turner
    Muncy
    Betts
    J Turner
    Seager
    Smith
    Taylor
    Bellinger
    Knebel

      1. Knebel will be the opener most likely. That is how they have been using Price. The lineup posted on the web site has Knebel listed as the pitcher.

  20. I am not going to get into the argument about cultures someone started on here. My two cents though is this. Of all the atrocities committed by this nation, the one we have never made up for or corrected is what we did to native American’s. Most of them still live on reservations in poverty. They have never been given the respect they deserve.

    2. “I am not going to get into the argument about cultures”

      You just did. And thank you for your input. Excellent example.

  22. Dodgers: David Price Dealing with Arm Issue, IL Stint Possible
    by Brook Smith
    09/03/2021, 4:30 PM

    It sounds like the Dodgers might be going with another bullpen game tonight in San Francisco. The initial plan was to have David Price make the start in game 1 of the series, but that changed pretty quickly. The team announced earlier today that it would be Corey Knebel getting the ball to start instead.

    The expectation was that Price would come out of the Dodgers bullpen and provide depth. He did that in his last appearance when Doc ran out Knebel before him. The idea there was to give the higher-leverage guy the better run of hitters early on.

    Doc also went on to say that an injured list stint was possible for Price. He did not specify the injury to his arm, but he did note that it would be a shorter-term thing if the Dodgers went that route. For the moment, they’re taking things day by day.

    1. Whenever Price pitches, it’s a bullpen game. In the last 2 months, 11 outings, he’s gone less than 5 nine times.

      Can he pitch a couple or not?

        1. And his ERA has been inching up, but 3.88 isn’t awful. Forearm tightness in a 36 year old? Doc is playing it down a bit, saying a little rest is needed. You mean like Kershaw? Where’s Duffy?

    2. Wow, I hope this is Price’s last year of his contract….we really don’t need him at all. He is pretty much broken down or on the verge of breaking down.

      1. TM

        I agree about Price. He also has an OPS against of above .700 and that is bad. Unfortunately there is one more year on his contract.

        He is on my off season hoping to get traded list.

        1. His ERA+ is 102, so he’s clearly average by that metric. For hitters there’s a table for OPS from Fangraphs.

          Rating OPS
          Excellent 1.000
          Great 0.900
          Above Average 0.800
          Average 0.710
          Below Average 0.670
          Poor 0.600
          Awful 0.570

          If those are ratings for hitters, the inverse holds true for pitchers.

          Excellent 0.570
          Great 0.600
          Above Average 0.670
          Average 0.710
          Below Average 0.800
          Poor 0.900
          Awful 1.000

        1. He definitely hasn’t been worth 16M this year. So, there isn’t a lot of trade “Value” there. He’s been versatile and solid, not good or bad by any means.

          I’m indifferent as far as keeping him or letting him go. I’m also torn with another tall, old lefty that get hurts every year that hasn’t been worth his contract for quite some time.

      1. Mark, I’ve been reading that Nyhan &Reifler report, along with Guillory & Geraci, 2016) (Cobb et al Wood & Porter, 2019). Fascinating read. Not an easy read, but well written. Thanks for the heads up on that. Pretty much reinforces what I already suspected.

      2. “And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.”
        ― Friedrich Nietzsche

  24. Dodgers need a bona fide fourth starter. Is it Jackson, Gonsolin, CK, White or someone else? BP games take a toll on the staff and impacts many games down the line. This might be our achilles heal.

    1. Once you get into the playoffs, you rarely use your number 4. With the off days, he really is not needed.

  25. That could have been worse. Unusually bad job by Bickford. Terrible O-2 pitch by Vesia. Nice plays by JT and Belli. Time for the bats to wake up.

  29. To this point an utterly disappointing offensive game plan and execution. Mookie, Max, JT, CT3 and Cody didn’t do anything and we won’t win with no offense from those guys. Feels like CT3 hasn’t got a base hit in two weeks and it feels like Cody hasn’t hit since the WS in 2020 (kidding for sarcasm) but he does indeed look like an automatic out.

  30. All you need to know where Cody stands right now. He was PH for in the 9th inning with a runner in scoring position. Yes, it was lefty on lefty, but that sums up where Cody’s offensive game is right now. Not saying it was a bad move, or even an incorrect move, but it might be time for the Bellinger apologists at LADT to dial it down a notch.

    Doc, by that one move, summed up and kind of backed Cassidy and many other’s who have complained about Bellinger’s offense. Some will defend Cody here, but Doc just made a statement.

  31. Well, this is a fine mess you got yourself in.

    Bring in Justin Turner. Kenley is totally outta sync.

  36. I saw Doc leaving the dugout,I guess he was going to check his shorts
    I’m sure he had a smile on his face while he was doing it

  37. Yikes. Got to feel fortunate Kenley got out of the 9th. He had no idea where the ball was going. Thank You Belt for swinging 2-0. Joe Davis was correct. Posey was sitting on the slider on the first pitch. He know Kenley K’d him earlier in the year on three straight sliders and it was the only pitch close to the strike zone tonight.

  38. Was that a TT slide at third!!!!! Wow 2 productive outs! Dodger debut for the save! What me nervous?

  41. If Dodgers manage to win this one I maybe found a reason to start going to some sort of church.

  42. Vasquez will pitch the 10th. Some control problems and young in a hostile environment. This could get ugly, but I’m hoping for a legendary moment in Dodgers vs. Giants lore

    1. He throws a PERFECT first pitch breaking ball. Asshole ump calls it a ball. So sick of this shit.

    2. Was it the throw or was our inexperienced first baseman not there to cut it? I couldn’t tell.

    1. Lets do the contact play!!!! With no outs????? I could see if it was hit to the right side but…

  47. Wow, Will Smith with two groundouts tonight with a runner at third base w/ less than two outs. First and Third with no outs in the 10th and don’t do anything with Smith and CT3 and then the pitcher who only has two career AB’s.

    Although CT3 did get the soft base hit in the 9th to tie the game up, his bat looks slow and tired right now. Gotta find his mojo.

  48. What a wasted great pitching performance by our bullpen. When is this offense gonna show up and start winning some games!!!!!

  49. Bryant has always had a hole in his swing on his hands. I would have liked to see them go in there once.

  51. Like Orel sez, a shortstop on second…. Routine play…Well bright side pitcher did his job… Bad break.

  53. We had plenty of opportunities we just didn’t execute
    What a shame our bullpen fought to the end

  54. Some out of position players and some unathletic players reared their ugly head. JT should have scored from 2B on the Seager base hit, and this might have been one of the worst games I’ve seen Will Smoth play. 0-5 with multiple opportunities to get a hit or scoring flyball but failed and wasn’t in position to cut off CT3’s throw from CF and then that stretch at 1B. WTH was that? Yes, bad throw but my gosh can’t you jump, can you stretch back, can you make an athletic play?

  56. The “next stranger up” strategy in the bullpen strikes me a real problem.
    AF loves to work the angles and manipulate the BP, now bringing in newcomers like Vasquez and Phillips. I’m not sure who might be hurt right now, but I’d much rather see a mix of guys like Mitch White and Andre Jackson throwing “bulk innings,” as they say, and thus preserve guys like Treinen and Jansen for later. There were ELEVEN pitchers used in this game, which will probably cause some problems in the next two games.
    These are now critical games and strangers are throwing important innings. It’s just nuts.

    1. Excellent point. Insane to have Vasquez and Phillips pitching the most important innings of the year. Maybe ask Kenley to pitch 10th?
      But in the end the lack of hitting, poor base running and poor defense cost them even more.
      Tough loss. Giants have won 4 or 5 crazy games against the Dodgers this year. Two blown saves by Kenley, Bellinger throwing a ball into left field stands, Tauchman robbing Pujols of game winning HR, and losing this game on Turner throwing error after failing to score runner from 3rd with no outs. That is a 10 game swing in the standings on those 5 games.

  57. This one is on the offense, Not Doc’s choice of pitchers out of the pen. They only had 3 hits until the 9th inning when they got 3 to tie the game. Desclafani shut them down for the first time this season. Up until tonight, they owned that guy. When the first 4 hitters in your lineup go 2-14 you are not going to score many runs. Seager had 4 hits which was exactly half of the teams hits. The bottom of the lineup was not any help either until Taylor tied the game with his bloop hit. Taylor should have just thrown the ball to second on Crawford’s double. Smith hitting the ball on the ground instead of getting a ball in the air so Turner could score, instead, he was a dead duck. They got themselves out almost as often as the pitcher did.

    1. Agree Bear. The offense did not score until 2 outs in 9th inning. They faced very average pitchers all night and managed only two runs in 11 innings. The offense looks great on paper, but has a lot of games where they don’t produce. Very tough loss, and need to bounce back and win next two games.

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