We left part one with Mike Piazza. Mike should have been a lifetime Dodger, but FOX ruined that. Catchers are not supposed to hit for average, but Mike did. Especially when they combine the kind of power he had. His last full year in LA he hit .362, with 40 homers and 124 RBI’s. Trading him was the dumbest move ever. He hit .331 as a Dodger and hit 177 HR’s. Driving in 563 runs. He was a career .308 hitter even though over his last 6 seasons he never hit over .286.
So now, onward to part two.
32…anyone want to guess who? Sandy Koufax, simply in my opinion, the best pitcher I have ever seen. On any day you felt you were going to see something special when Sandy pitched. And a no hitter was always in the back of your mind. Over his last 6 seasons, no one was as dominant. Kersh may own some impressive records, and is one of the best of this era, but never have I felt I was watching the best in the game. 4 no hitters, 3 Cy Youngs, and ERA wins 5 straight years. Simply put, the BEST. Billy Antonello wore it before Sandy.
33. Max Carey, Grimes, Campy for a year, Joe Becker, and Danny Ozark, the coaches, Bilko, Davalillo, Eddie Murray, Eric Davis, Jordan, DeWitt, and Van Slyke. Murray was the best I saw in that number. Tony Watson was the last to wear it.
34. Well, 34 has not been worn by any player since Fernando left. That was 30 years ago. My own opinion is that while Fernando does not have HOF creds, he is iconic to the organization, and Fernando mania was directly because of him. So, when he retires from broadcasting on the Spanish language station, I have a feeling his # 34 will be retired with him. Making only him and Gilliam as players not in the hall given that honor.
35. The Babe, Klippstein, Maglie, Welch, Gott, Anderson, and Bellinger. Cody is the best position player to wear this, and he should only get better, but I also loved Bob Welch.
36. Stengel, Connors, Newk, Gleason, Robinson, F. Rhoden, Benzinger, Daal, Maddux, Weaver and Liberatore. Nod has to go to Newk.
37. Roebuck, Kekich, Castillo, Dreifort. Culberson wore it last. Roebuck was a solid reliever. Dreifort never really reached the heights most thought he would.
38. Did not start getting much use until the 40’s. Loes, Dick Williams, Craig, Moeller, Zahn, Goltz, Zachry, Worrell, Osteen, as a coach, Gagne, and McCarthy. Gagne the easy choice.
39. Campy. HOF catcher and one of the greatest personalities ever. Effervescent, and filled with love and enthusiasm for the game and life. Two players wore it before it was retired, Howie Reed, and Ken Rowe.
40. Another of those numbers that went to a lot of players. Some of the more notable would be Craig, Williams S., Roenicke, Singer, Honeycutt, Honey gets the nod on longevity.
41. Labine, Johnson, Sizemore, Reuss, Shaw, Penny, Hatcher. I go with Ruess who threw a no hitter, and was smart enough to be injured so Fernando could start for him.
42. Everyone knows this is Jackie. Pioneer, HOFer, leader, and one hell of a ballplayer. After he retired, it was worn by Ray Lamb in 1969.
43, Neal, Crawford, Hoak, Sutcliffe, Mondesi, Ashby, League and Avilan. Raul Mondesi is easily the best to wear it.
44. Tracewski, Foster, Downing, Landreaux, Strawberry, Saito, Padilla, Harang and Hill. Downing had the longest tenure, Straw was a disappointment, but Hill was by far the most entertaining.
45. Podres, Fowler, Richert, Wall, Cedeno, Mulholland, Perez, Dessens, Hillman, and Woodward. Podres gets the nod since this is the number he was wearing when he beat the Yanks in game 7.
46. Wade, Bessent, Marichal, Hooten, Gott, Gross, Bolsinger, and Fields. No real stars in that bunch. But Hooten was solid and spent a lot of years with that number. It belongs to Gonsolin now.
47. Hard to believe it did not get much use until Romo got it in 68, Messersmith, Maldonado, Brock, Orosco, Goodwin, Nolasco, Kendrick, and Thompson. Messersmith and Kendrick the best for me.
48. Usually given to pitchers. Spooner, Alexander, Powell, Ramon Martinez, Gagne, Guerra, and Stewart. Ramon was a solid starter.
49. Another pitchers number, Black, Hough, Niedenfuer, Belcher, Candiotti, Herges, Hyers, wore it last. Hough wore it the longest. And he was one of my favorites. But Belcher gets the nod as the best.
50. No real standouts, but Howell pitched as well as a Dodger. Solomon, Borbon, Sanchez, Eovaldi, and Choate. Little note, the last guy to wear it was Brett Eibner, who has become a pitcher now. Eibner hit one HR as a Dodger. It was the longest one hit that year by a Dodger player….naturally, he hit it at Coors. Now it belongs to Mookie. I have no doubt he will do it proud over his tenure as a Dodger.
51. Larry Sherry, Broxton, Bellisario, Ruiz. I go with Sherry, the 59 series MVP.
52. Lasorda, as a coach, Madlock, Crews, Sherrill, Lindblom, Fed-ex, and Baez. Baez for longevity and performance.
53. Big D. No one compares to this guy. He was as nasty as they come. Big and intimidating with that sidearm delivery of his. Held the consecutive scoreless innings streak until Orel broke it. HOFer, retired because of a rotator cuff injury, which today, could be fixed with surgery not available then. Long time broadcaster. Tom Paciorek wore it for one season after Big D retired. Only 2 players ever wear it.
54. Leary, Mike Maddux, Candelaria, Kershaw, Guerra, Cingrani, Romo. Leary spent the most time and was a very effective starter.
55. Fairly, Hershiser, Carrara, Schumaker, Latos, Blanton, and Russell Martin. Orel as a pitcher, and Martin as a position player.
56. Campy his rookie year, Astacio, Fetters, Kuo, Blanton and JP Howell. Astacio had pretty decent numbers. But did not play long for LA.
57. Guerrero P, rookie year. Howe, Pederson (Joc’s dad Stu), Wetteland, Seanez, Elbert, and Wood. Howe helped win the 81 series, what a tragic life he led, and died way too young.
58. Pignatano, Cresse, Jackson, and Billingsley. Bills an easy choice. Injury cut his career short.
59. Searage, Guillermo Mota, Fife, Castillo. Not a very scintillating group. Searage is now a pitching coach.
60. Castro, Hu, Coffey, Dominguez, and Toles. Hu finally made Abbot and Costello’s bit a reality when he walked in spring, and Steiner finally got to say, Hu’s on first! Toles was a very talented guy, and the Dodgers could really use a player like him. Sad ending.
61. Park, Beckett, and Verdugo. Park had some great moments, save giving up two granny’s in one inning to Tatis’s dad. Beckett and Verdugo were not here long enough.
62. Peralta, and Font. Again not much to choose from.
63. Yimi Garcia. nuff said.
64. Buehler, LoDuca, Columbe, and Ferguson.
65. Joc Pederson, Kyle Farmer, and Austin Barnes.
66. The Wild Horse. Mike MacDougal, Todd Williams, and Paul Konerko. Well, Puig is still an enigma, and a very talented baseball player. It is really a shame he never put it all together in a Dodger uni. But he was by a longshot one of the most exciting and exasperating players to ever play in LA.
67. Brunson, Jeff Kubenka, Louis Coleman, and O’Koyea Dickson.
68. Ross Stripling.
70. Damon Hollins and Tim Locastro.
71. Josh Ravin.
72. Miguel Rojas and Travis d’Arnaud.
74. Jansen. Kenley coming down to the end of it. I tend to remember his good days rather than the bad ones.
75. Alan Mills, Rodriguez, Dayton, and Alexander. Paco Rodriguez had some good outings as did Grant Dayton. Scott Alexander when his sinker is working is pretty good. When not, he is batting practice.
76. Josh Sborz and Matt West. Neither did much. Medwick, Dressen, Frias, and Santana, who the book is still out on. Most of the other numbers are used by rookies right now.
81. Victor Gonzalez.
85. Dustin May. We will see how he works out.
87. Jose De Leon.
88. John Axford and Mike Ramsey.
97. Joe Beimel.
99. Ryu, and Manny. Ryu has a much longer resume, and when healthy he was almost unhittable at times. Manny, he had the best 2 month stretch of any Dodger I can remember, and that includes Cody’s start last year. But he faded fast, and the PED suspension did not help at all.
Well, that is by the numbers. Some will still have stories to tell down the road.
Two players wore numbers you usually do not see. Brian Wilson wore 00 his two years as a Dodger, and Al Oliver wore 0 his only year in LA.
In high school, I wore 1 my first year, and 32 my second. Pretty cool in my mind.
Dodgers have retired, 1. Reese, 2 Lasorda, 4 Snider, 19, Gilliam, 20, Sutton, 32, Koufax, 39, Campy, 42, Jackie, and 53 for Big D, Who’s next?
Bear, you definitely need the new press guides.
“50. No real standouts.”
When you have a sec, check to see what number Mookie is wearing. I realize it’s just been a short time, but he may very well go into the HOF as a Dodger and when he does he’ll be wearing number 50.
I was referring to prior to Mookie being here. He will no doubt do the number proud. But this was all about the past. And since Media guides are no longer available to the public, my 2018 will be about as new as it gets. Unfortunately the yearbooks do not have as much info as they used to.
The yearly rosters are published on the internet and they usually include uniform numbers.
A lot easier to get them from the Media Guide, and all I have to do is open it and look at the number, rather than all the searching. I like doing the research that way. The guide also has a complete list of every player who has ever worn a Dodger unit. Including guys like Roy Gleason who had only one AB in the majors….he doubled by the way.
It is amended.
You know I love to yank your chain.
You did a lot of work here and all I did was comb through it to see if you left anything out.
Thanks for the effort. Uniform numbers are huge part of baseball and always bring back memories.
No problemo STB. I thought about that before I wrote it, but sometimes ya just ferget.
Padres lost Hosmer with a broken finger he suffered on a bunt attempt. So Moreland will be their go to guy for a while.
Not only that! This bunt was a disaster in almost every manner.
He has an OPS+ of 140
It was in the first inning.
There were two strikes.
He fouled out.
He, obviously, had to come out of the game.
Nothing about that was smart.
I wasn’t alive during Sandy Koufax’s reign, but curious for those that did, how does Hershiser’s 88 performance rank against Koufax during his last 6 years? I can cross compare the actual stats, but more interested in the eyeball examination and confidence level you felt as fan for either on the mound? I did witness Hershiser and although Gibson won the MVP and Canseco was a 40/40 guy, there was no doubt in my mind that Hershiser was the best player in the league in 88. It’s hard to imagine someone pitching much better, specifically during that post season, but then again, Koufax’s numbers and accolades during that stretch are nearly untouchable.
Hershiser was a major force from 1984 through 1989 with the Dodgers. In 1984 he pitched 189 innings, and then from 1985 to 1989, he pitched 231 to 267 innings every year and had an ERA in the mid-high 2.00’s. 1988 was magical and shows that sometimes the baseball gods smile on you. Orel was good, very good, but in 1990 he had to have should reconstruction surgery to repair a torn labrum. He was the first pitcher to undergo this surgery, and he was never the same pitcher. To his credit (as a bulldog), he came back and won nearly another 100 games (he has 204 for his career), but he was more of an end-of-the-rotation guy. It made me sad to see how far he had fallen.
To compare Orel and Sandy, especially on their respective best 5-year runs, is a discredit to both. They were different types of pitchers. No one ever in the history of baseball during Sandy’s last five years had anything like he threw. It was otherworldly. He compares to no one. While Orel was averaging 250 innings, Koufax averaged 300 innings. His fastball was violent, fast, and furious, and his curveball fell off the table.
Back in Sandy Koufax’s time, the accuracy of measuring the speed of fastballs was not accurate science. It is said that Bob Feller was clocked at 107.9 MPH. According to several sources, Koufax was never timed faster than 92.3 MPH. My eyes told me he was over 100 MPH, but maybe it was the spin created by Sandy’s incredibly long fingers. If Orel was a bulldog, Sandy was a trained assassin! His pitches were poetically violent! His last five years were the most dominating performance by a pitcher that I have ever seen!
Here’s Sandy:
Here’s the Bulldog:
I remember listening to a radio interview with Roseboro back in the early 60’s. He was asked if he could tell how a pitcher was going to throw by the way his warm up session went in the pen, He said that sometimes they would be throwing very well in the pen. And everything was working right. They would start the game, and the wheels would come off, so there was not anyway to tell. Then he was asked about judging fastballs. He stated that he judged how hard a pitcher was throwing by the number of sponges he would put in his glove to cushion his hand. He said he used no sponges with Podres. Big D, and Williams were 2 sponge guys. When asked about Sandy, he said he put as many in there as he could get!. I saw Sandy pitch many times. And I have seen Orel pitch many times also. I used to love to sit in the left field pavillion, and since back in those days it was first come first serve and sit where you want, I almost always would get a seat next to the bull pen. I loved watching the starting pitcher warm up. And having been there, I can tell you this, Koufax’s fast ball made a different sound hitting the catchers mitt. Especially towards the end just before the game started when he really began to air that thing out. It is like when a great power hitter hits a homer. The ball just sounds different off of his bat than say one hit by Lux. Sandy’s fast ball the last few feet just seemed to jump at the hitters. And he had pinpoint control. He never threw at hitters, unlike big D. But he sure would make them look inept. And I have seen him when he was pretty awful too. I remember a game against the Braves at the coliseum, and he gave up 3 homers before the seats were warm. He was pitching the day that Marichal went after Roseboro. There is a lot more to that story too. Marichal had hit a batter and brushed back a couple too. Rosey knew Sandy would not pitch inside on purpose, So when Marichal came to bat, on the return throw, Rosey buzzed his coconut with a real close throw back to Koufax. Next thing you knew, it was on. After the incident, Koufax was pretty upset. He gave up the go ahead homer to Mays. But in clutch situations, there has been no pitcher ever on the Dodgers I would trust more to get the win. Just look at game 7 of the 65 World Series. Complete game 3 hit shutout with 3 walks and 10 strikeouts. On 2 days rest. They had lost the first 2 games in Minnesota, then won all three in LA. Osteen lost game 6, and Alston opted for Sandy with Big D as his backup. In 63 he beat the Yanks twice, Pitching complete games both times, setting a world series strikeout record in game 1 and beating Whitey Ford both times. And that was not even the best pitching performance in the series. Big D’s 1-0 3 hit masterpiece in game 3 was better. Oh yeah, Jim Bouton, the author of the book “Ball Four” was the Yankee pitcher that day. The Dodger lone run scored on a Gilliam walk, a wild pitch, and a Tommy Davis single. The game ended with Fairly catching a fly ball off the bat of Joe Pepitone that pinned him against the bullpen gate. Pepitone would lose a Clete Boyer throw in the white shirted background the next day that allowed the go ahead and winning run to score in game 4. Hershiser is more of a finesse guy. Listen to Orel talk about pitching, and you can see his approach was a lot different than Sandy. Koufax went for the jugular. Hershiser not having that kind of fastball, or curve looked more to outsmart the hitters. The night Koufax pitched his perfect game against the Cubs, and he had to be perfect, the Cubs pitcher gave up one hit, Jeff Torborg said in an interview that Sandy had a hard time getting loose and seemed pretty uncomfortable on the mound. He was stretching a lot in between pitches. About the 4th or 5th, he suddenly got loose. And after that the Cubs simply had no shot. He struck out the last 6 hitters he faced that night. And this was when the whole league knew he had a sore arm, but pitched with it anyway. He had to ice down his arm after every start those last 2 seasons, and he still managed to strike out 699 hitters in 658.2 innings, win 56 games while losing 17, throwing 54 complete games and had 13 shutouts and 2 saves. Hershiser was very good. Koufax was other worldly.
The best pitchers of the 60s. From This Great Game:
#1. SANDY KOUFAX
1960-66, Los Angeles Dodgers. Best Year: 1966 (1.73 ERA, 27 wins, 9 losses, .750 win percentage, 41 starts, 27 complete games, 5 shutouts, 323 innings, 317 strikeouts)
At the start of the decade, the Brooklyn-born southpaw looked to be another major league pitcher struggling to overthrow his way to success, with the rare gems scattered within a bigger collection of off-days. Then he mastered the curve—which some consider the most effective ever thrown by a pitcher—to go with a fiery fastball, and reset his approach, making opponents try to hit it rather than trying to make them miss. Add to this Baseball’s decision early in the 1960s to enlarge the strike zone, and not only was Koufax transformed into a brilliant ace, he was simply unfair to opponents. It’s arguable that no other pitcher in the history of the game was as dominant as Koufax over his last five years—a period which included five NL ERA titles, four no-hitters (one of them a perfect game), three Cy Young Awards, one NL MVP and two World Series MVPs. His strikeout rate remained electric, averaging 9.5 per nine innings in a time when the major league average was little more than half of that; but showing he had tamed the wildness of his early career, his walk rate plummeted from 5.4 in 1960 to a mere 1.6 three years later. No NL pitcher had struck over 300 batters over one season in the 60’6” era until Koufax whiffed 306 in 1963; two years later, he reset the all-time mark at 382. In six World Series starts during the decade, Koufax produced a sensational 0.94 ERA and struck out 54 batters in 48 innings. Looking for financial respect after the 1965 campaign, Koufax sat out spring camp with teammate Don Drysdale, asking for $500,000 over three seasons—and during negotiations dared to bring in an agent, something the Dodgers viewed the same way that Dracula would have viewed a crucifix. (Koufax eventually settled for a one-year, $125,000 contract—still, the highest salary ever given to a pitcher at that point.) But that 1966 season would be Koufax’s last; he pitched practically the entire year in pain, taking at least 15 cortisone shots and numerous pain-killing meds. He retired afterward at age 30, simply stating: “I can’t take the pain anymore.”
A larger strike zone. Yes. Back then we all hit against a strike zone that went from the bottom of the knees to the arm pits. Imagine if they did that now. The mound was also higher during Koufax’ era. It was lowered after he retired. But 658 innings in 2 years? Just short of 1200 innings his last 4 years. It’s a shame what the Dodgers were willing to do him.
Koufax was absolutely dominant during that period. He had 4 no-hitters, including one perfect game, many one- and two-hit games, many strike outs, and many complete games. Having watched him during that era, the opposing batters often seemed helpless against him. I also watched Hersheiser during the 1988 season, which was a great season for him. However, in my experience, Koufax was unmatched for sheer dominance, except perhaps by Bob Gibson. I’m speaking of the pitchers I watched personally, if we’re talking about the eyeball test. Nolan Ryan could also be unhittable, of course, but Koufax had better control on a routine basis. Clemens was another dominating pitcher, but he had some help from steroids. Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez also come to mind in terms of sheer dominance.
DODGER PITCHING:
Bullpen
Tied for 8th in IP.
2nd in ERA (2.51) to the A’s (2.17)
2nd in Wins to the Rays
3rd in WAR
2nd in HR/IP
4th in LOB %
Starters
2nd in ERA (3.20) to the Indians (2.77)
9th in IP, but with a couple of good games they could be #3 (it’s close)
18th in HR/9 IP
2nd to Indians in LOB%
HRs have hurt the starters this year. With Stripling gone, that # will fall. May gave up 2 HRs in the loss to the Rockies. Our guys have great arms but they’ve left a lot of hangers for teams to feast on. With Gonsolin on board, we should see more control and our ERA get lower.
We also have the best WHIP, 1.06 in the majors. Indians seem to have the best overall pitching stats in the majors.
Indians are especially impressive considering who they’ve traded away the last year or so! They know how to develop pitchers over there.
Drinking freshly brewed coffee in my Dodger mug, I saw how much work went into that article, Bear. Thank you. Mark’s pictures are a hit and really compliment your write-up. For me my number will always be 32.
The pictures are mine except Hershiser and Messersmith. Mark posted the videos, and Jeff edited and posted the Orel and Andy pics. I enjoy doing the research. It is a new thing for me and keeps my mind active. I also love Sandy. Have never seen his equal. Seen some that come close, but his dominance was just something to see. I have a 32 jersey, and 6 others. Kersh is great, and he will eclipse most of Sandy’s records. But he just does not have the same kind of resume. And he is older right now than Sandy was when he retired.
Your staff needs a tip. They did good.
Jeff is a huge help and influence. Mark has been solid… I appreciate all the help they give when I do a post,
Great job again this morning guys – really looking forward to this page every day !! The Dodgers are very blessed to have some of the greatest pitchers in baseball history – Koufax,Drysdale,Fernando,Orel,Sutton,Newcombe.Kersh to name a few. And even though each didn’t make the HOF, each had their own unique gifts that made them special. Each contributed to Dodger lore and tradition.
You left out a quite a few, Erskine, Vance, Roe, Grimes, Rucker, Podres, Osteen, All those guys were pretty good. Grimes, and Vance are in the hall. Vance won 197 games. He debuted with the Yanks and Pirates when he was 24. He went back to the minors for 3 years, pitched a bit for the Yanks in 18, and then was sent down again. He resurfaced with Brooklyn in 1922 at 31 years old. He spent 12 years with the Dodgers and won 190 of his 197 wins. His last 7 came with the Cardinals. He was older than Koufax was when he retired when he became a star.
I have over the years wondered what some of those old guys would do today. 5 man rotation, lower mound, strike zone the size of a t.v. tray. 600 innings in two years would wipe out every staff in baseball today.
Nobody of interest is really hot right now. Seattle has won 6, but are still 3 under .500. Cleveland is 7-3, tied for first. Ultimately I don’t expect much out of them. I think the White Sox are better, but admittedly don’t follow either that closely. Happy to see NY and Houston on losing streaks.
Who will finish strong? I think the Braves and Cubs are likely to. The Padres. Can’t help but believe the Yankees and Houston wil turn it around, but certainly hope not. Look out for the giants and the Phillies.
This is probably the wrong forum to post it, but I bet most “old timers” would perform much worse if they weren’t allowed the amenities of the modern game.
Most drank to an extent, smoked. Had jobs in the off-season. Training, scouting and analytics were non-existant.
Give those players, modern tools? Then I’d imagine the outliers would be better, the rest worse.
Haven’t given this much thought though.
I agree with that Bluto. Today’s player is bigger and stronger I don’t know that they are faster. Probably as a whole. The pitchers today all throw well over 90. Back then they threw hard, but not that hard and in order to pitch every 4th for 40 starts and 300 innings they couldn’t sell out on every pitch. Guys like Whitey Ford, Warren Spahn, Lou Burdette, Phil Niekro and Robin Roberts all pitched smart. High and tight, low and away, change of speeds, up down in out. Those guys were all 6’ or less. Harvey Haddix, 5’9” threw 99 complete games. He also did something we will never see again, he threw 12 perfect innings against the Braves. I remember that game. It was in ‘59. He lost in the 13th.
Today’s lineups look more like the 60s Los Angeles Rams.
I suspect the great ones would still be great, but back then, you saw pitchers 4 or 5 times in a game. That alone is a big advantage. Nowadays, every team has 4 – 6 guys in the pen who throw 200 MPH. Of course, the bigger strike zone and taller mound helped the pitchers – some believe the lower mound has lead to more arm injuries.
The game has changed and everyone is bigger, stronger, and maybe faster (or not on the faster part). However, the ligaments and tendons are still the same (or maybe weaker, due to overfarming and bad diets).
There is little doubt that the athletes are better.
I predict that over these last 18 games, the Dodgers’ offense (which is 3 runs behind SD for the most runs scored in baseball) will explode and truly become the Big Blue Wrecking Crew.
Everyone once wanted a bullpen as good as the Yankees… Notanymore!
What he said
A friend of mine sent that same message to me yesterday. I told her it has been 52 years for me. I got home August of ‘68.
Those 3 years, ‘66-‘69, I was busy being a Marine but I did my best to keep up with the Dodgers. Didn’t see them much, or at all really, but I read the sports section of whatever paper was available… including The Stars and Stripes. So glad to hear the powers that be backed off closing that down.
I went in the Army in Dec of 1965. Right after the first incident in the Gulf of Tonkin. I was 17, I left the foster home I was living in and joined. I stayed in the Army until 1974 when it was clear we were going to pull out. I remember lost friends, and all of the men I consider Brothers in every sense of the word every day. I have no regrets. I never saw combat, unlike Badger, simply because of my job. I was a radar tech in a missile unit. But those who did not come back will be remembered by me always. And my family does the same. Thank you. To me, even in a war that was so hated by all, I was proud to serve my country.
A salute to them all.
Nothing ticked me off more than trading Mike Piazza. He was the face of the Dodgers. I blame some of that on Peter O’Malley. He had a chance to ink Piazza for a lot less money, but opted not to do it, believing it would be best to leave it to the new owners. Then Piazza’s antics with the whining didn’t help.
Still, I think Fred Claire would have worked it out, if Fox execs had stayed out of the baseball operations side.
Other than spend lots of money just to keep ESPN out of LA, Fox also tossed around millions on player contracts like Kevin Brown and then sold the team to Frank McCourt.
Yes, athletes are bigger and stronger than ever. But comparing them to players of the past probably doesn’t make sense. Could a pretty good college player, but not major league material, of today be a big star in the 1920s? Maybe a Hall of Fame candidate? Probably.
Hitting was certainly easier. Just look at the old gloves. Lot of base hits lost to the modern glove. Using the old time baseball mentality, how many bunt base hits would you see when the shift is on?
I’m not sure they ate healthier. Lots of fried food and gravy back in the day. But they certainly didn’t train all year long or lift weights, most had to work second jobs. In many ways, the weights may be a negative factor. Bigger, stronger players, but more injuries.
Interesting write-up.
I wonder about injuries. The training today is designed for strength AND flexibility. I think what’s different is guaranteed money. Today you get hurt you still get paid. You get paid large. Players years ago were tougher. They played through it.
sbuffalo, maybe I’m wrong but when I see a player who can’t stay on the field with persistent pulls and injuries, I suspect former steroid use. Not with JT. Stanton and Judge do come to mind.
And there have been suspicions that the latin kids (especially in the Dominican which views steroid use differently) of being introduced to steroids by the “buscones” as they prepare their showcased youngsters to sign at 16. There are lots of denials but the suspicions are out there.
You think hitting off of Walter Johnson, Mathewson, Alexander, Plank and those guys was easier? I disagree. Different time, different game. Back then it was all about making contact. You look at the strikeout totals of those guys and it wasn’t easier. The ball parks were not manicured the way they are now. They were not asymmetric, and the uniforms were wool, which in the hot months would be saturated with sweat and weigh a ton. And there were 14 less teams. They traveled by train in hot cars with no A/C. Hotels were the same. Starters were expected not only to start, but to finish. Relievers were old guys on the way down, or some kid just up from the minors. And guys were fighting every day for their jobs. No help for rookies from the vets. Those kids were trying to take a mans job and his money. You got injured and there was a chance you would never get your job back. Just ask Wally Pipp. One headache cost him his job with the Yankees. Some kid named Gehrig played for him, and the rest is history. I think the game was more of a grind then than it is now. Players have nutritionists, doctors, training staffs, and much more help than the old guys ever got. Lou Gehrig played with fractured fingers and still produced. No, it is in no way easier.
Maybe I should clarify, Michael. I’m not saying it would be easy to play back then. But I do believe a good athlete, a good college player, could more than compete with players of the 1920s. I mentioned the glove. I had one of those, got it from a relative who played back then. You had to catch the ball, use your hand to keep it from bouncing out. The modern glove is so big that you can just reach out and snare a ball. Playing defense was much harder. Yes, the infields were not manicured. Yes the uniforms were hot and heavy. But just look at track and field, comparing the 20s to current days. The athletes today can run faster, jump farther, higher. So, it makes sense that an athlete of today could compete at the same level as a really good player in the 20s. Different time, different game. But today’s athletes are bigger, stronger and faster. Doesn’t mean that the best players of the day weren’t special athletes. But look at all the youth baseball programs, travel ball, clinics and coaching the players of today have available. The best baseball players back in 20s had nothing like what we have today. So yes, I think a good college player of today could compete at a very high level with best players of the 20s.
Piazza was traded without Claire’s knowledge. Mike often said he would have signed for less to stay with LA than he eventually signed with the Mets. I do not blame O’Malley. He had sold the team, and knew he was selling it when Piazza came due to be a free agent. There was a lot of talk that Piazza wanted some outrageous amount of money. Never verified of course, and Piazza denied he gave them a huge figure, some think it was over 110 million. He got 89 million over his 7 years as a Met.. Dodgers could have had him for around 90 million if the FO had any brains, which they did not.
DODGERS PLACE OF JOC PEDERSON ON PATERNITY LIST
RHP JOSH SBORZ RECALLED
LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles Dodgers have recalled right-handed pitcher Josh Sborz and placed outfielder Joc Pederson on the paternity list.
Sborz, 26, returns for his third stint with the Dodgers after appearing in one game and tossing 1.0 scoreless inning in his first two stints. In parts of two seasons over eight games, the right-hander is 0-1 with a 7.20 ERA (8 ER/10.0 IP) and eight strikeouts. The former Virginia Cavalier has not allowed a run in five of his last six appearances with the Dodgers and has seven of his eight career strikeouts in that span. He was originally drafted in the second round of the 2015 First Year Player Draft by the Dodgers.
Pederson, 28, has played in 34 games this season, batting .184 (18-for-98) with six homers and 12 RBI. All six of his homers have been against right-handed pitchers and 120 of his 129 career homers are against righties. In parts of seven seasons with the Dodgers, he is a career .231 (491-for-2130) hitter with 129 homers and 299 RBI. The Northern California native was originally drafted in the 11th round of the 2010 First Year Player Draft out of Palo Alto High School.
Pederson hit .298 and stole 114 bases for 7 teams in the minors. He used to have wide receiver speed. Now he just has wide.
Did you see Kemp? He should wear a shirt that say’s WIDE LOAD.
I did. Matt Blemp.
He looks like he swallowed a Mack truck
Now that makes no sense what so ever. They are down a power bat, and bring up a guy who has thrown one inning all year? So now with both Turner and Joc out, they are down 2 position players. Good thing that they have a taxi squad with them. Bad news is that Kike will get more playing time.
Isn’t Turner due back today?
He could have come off yesterday. Maybe there will be an announcement later today. But Roberts said that they were not going to push it. They want him healthy. He is not listed on the preview to today’s game on the Dodger page. As of right now they are carrying 16 pitchers and 12 position players, and JT is not on that roster.
I think if he was coming off today, they would have not called up Sborz. He must have made the trip with them. Also, congrats to Joc on his new son. Now enjoy a couple days at home, and then get back here and put yer tail to work getting better for the post season.
Although not known to be power bats, was surprised to not see them replace Joc with McKinstry, Raley, or Reks. Maybe they are not ready yet.
Reks has some power, as does Raley. Maybe not in Joc’s league. McKinstry had 19 last year in the minors. Reks hit 28, but he is non roster so they would have to move someone off of the roster. Raley hit as many as 20. He and McKinstry are on the 40 man, so no one would have to be moved off.
Pitching match-ups for Az. Buehler- Weaver. 1-7 7 plus ERA. Kershaw-Clarke. 1-0 ERA around 2. May-Bumgarner 0-4 8.44 ERA. I see a new Muncy T shirt on the horizon…….GO GET IT OUT OF THE POOL!
Fun post Bear. Lots of work on this list. Thanks
(I tried to post this earlier but unsuccessfully so if it appears twice in slightly different form, forgive me)
Koufax was awesome. I saw a replay this spring of an old series game. (Somebody here will remember exactly)
Sandy dominated the opposing line up with his fastball only. He could not get the feel of his great curveball so he scrapped it. Fastballs in-out, up-down, all day long. Vin interviewed Sandy in the clubhouse post game standing on what appeared to be a crates and Sandy admitted he only had his fastball. An awesome weapon. But the best find a way.
I’ve watched 3 games the last couple of days and in each the umpiring behind the plate was awful. Adam Hamari was all over the place last night in the Pads – Rockies game. Malachi Moore stunk in our game Sunday. And Doug Eddings almost ran Gabe Kapler in the first inning of the Giants game Sunday. He called a very low strike and heard it from the dugout with his exceptional hearing. He immediately warned the dugout about 3 pitches into the game and proceeded to stink in silence the rest of the day. These guys are neon flashing advertisement for the ABS system which I hope they implement next spring.
I personally as a player or coach I seldom bitched about balls and strike calls and never in the first couple of innings as the umpire established his zone for the day and we learned it. But the problem arises when there’s no consistency. That was the case with the 3 guys mentioned above. The hitter and pitcher have to trust that the pitch in the 1st and 9th are called the same. When an umpire pulls a rabbit out of his hat, especially in a critical situation, he’s gonna hear it. I think it’s getting worse of reasons I can’t explain. Maybe it’s lots of new faces?
I did get tossed once for bitching balls and strikes with a “Rabbit-Ears” umpire. He didn’t agree when I told him that if his eyesight was as good as his hearing, he’d be in the Hall of Fame.
To Badger’s point about the strike zone being larger back in the day, I tried to paste the cover of Ted Williams “The Science of Hitting” with John Underwood book on this sight to display the “old” strike zone. I either didn’t have the skills to reproduce it here or I’m not allowed. It’s a great visual of the zone at that time, with Teddy Ballgame standing at the plate with the zone displayed over the plate. The zone is 11 baseballs high and 7 baseballs wide and each ball predicts what Ted would hit at that spot. What you see immediately ii is 3 to 3 1/2 baseballs higher than today, even with the “high” strike being called again. And there are 3 balls added to the bottom of the zone now. Just imagine this zone compared to the zone being called 20 years ago when Sosa and Big Mac battled. A belt high fastball
was the top of that zone and they could spit on about the top 5 rows in Ted’s zone.
“The Science of Hitting” came out in 1968 when I was playing Legion ball and it became our hitting Bible. Those were the days when what separated the men from the boys with the scouts was the ability to hit the high fastball. And it was a HIGH fastball.
I would encourage you to google up the cover of The Science of Hitting or maybe someone here with more skills than I have could post it here. It’s remarkable how the strike zone has evolved over the years.
Thank you for the compliment Phil. I agree about the umpiring. It is not what it should be. I also believe a lot of the problem is the fact there are so many replacement umps working this weird season. A lot of them have never worked higher than AAA. There are some veteran umps who are awful also. Angel Hernandez pops to mind. And Joe West is as combative as ever. Did you see the umps threw the Nats owner out of his own box the other day? Strange. Bucknor is a lousy ump too.
I did hear that. I think it was Cowboy Joe who tossed the Nats owner. Joe just has a few games to pass Bill Klem early next year and hang it up, I hope. I suspect he would hate the ABS. CD Bucknor is bad.
Here you go:
In case you can’t see – this shows what Ted thought each zone was worth to a hitter:
Awesome MT. Thanks a lot for posting these. The height and size of this strike zone is just amazing. I really appreciate you getting this on the blog and I hope others find this as interesting as I do, even after all these years. I owe you a couple.
Old pal Charlie Culberson was DFA’d by the Braves today. Check out the White Sox pitching rotation, it is pretty solid.
I’m telling ya Bear, the White Sox are for real. They can swing it too. That’s a team to look out for on the AL side. They have some dudes. I think Tim Anderson and Lindor are the 2 best shortstops in the league, He can hit and pick it.
I think the ALCS is going to come down to the Sox and the Rays. Yanks are too banged up, Toronto just lost one of their best hitters. The A’s are probably the only other team that would give either of those two trouble. Astros are getting beat by much less talented teams.
The Sox were my pick before the trade deadline and they remain so. It is going to be hard for the Asterisks to miss the playoffs, as they do not have to be very good to be #2 in the NL West. They are in a very weak division and their closest competitor in the Division is Seattle. It could be a tough week for the Cheaters as they have 4 more against the A’s and then 2 against the Dodgers.
I hope the best for Joc and his family.
I, for one, was sad to see Charlie Culberson go from the Dodgers. He had a great moment in Dodger play and I thought he was a good infielder plus being a solid teammate. I could be wrong, but didn’t Clayton name his son Charlie?
In the long line of great Dodger pinch hitters #45 Terry Whitfield. I was at a great Dodgers-Braves series August of 1985. For the final game Whitfield hit a PH HR off of Bruce Sutter for a big Dodgers comeback.
I remember Whitfield and it was a error to not include him on the list. Another guy who had a decent run in LA was Vic Davalillo # 33. He had 3 good years as a pinch hitter for LA, and one not so good. Padres first base coach Wayne Kirby, who wore Orel’s 55 and 35 while he was in LA had one decent season. Mota, Harris, and Dave Hansen, who wore 4 different numbers in his 11 years with LA and put up decent numbers. Hansen wore 5, 15, 25 and 43 as a Dodger. He was an excellent PH> 15 of his career 35 homers came as a PH>
Mota and Davalillo off the bench.
Smoak released, Benintendi out for the season. Braves lost Fried to the IL with back problems. Soler to the IL as is Lance McCullers of the Astros. Hosmer may be back the last week of the season.
MLB has a new feature on their website that allows the user to search millions of videos, using a variety of different filters.
Might come in handy for those of you who write stories here and would like to add a video to your post., or for any of the visitors here who would just like to relive a moment in the past.
Here’s the link:
https://www.mlb.com/video?utm=mlbfilmroom-redirect
Pretty cool. Checked it out and saw a video of Big D getting his 11th K against the Twins to win game 4 of the 65 series. The Dodgers next homer will be their 80th of the season. They have a solid chance to hit 100 for a 60 game season. Only the Pads look like they could duplicate that. Seager, Muncy, Betts, Bellinger, all with 10 or more. Pollock and Smith are the others who could get double digits. Joc if he gets back quickly and gets hot, could do it too. No one else is close.
I pulled up Charlie Culberson’s walk off on Vin’s last broadcast from DS as a salute to him.
I hope he latches on somewhere, if not this year, maybe next season.
And didn’t Vince Scully sign the bat Charlie used in that game? I too hope Charlie does well in the future. One of the good guys.
If you have never read it, this may be the best piece written about Sandy Koufax (by Tom Verducci):
The Left Arm of God: Sandy Koufax was more than just a perfect pitcher
https://www.si.com/mlb/2014/08/29/sandy-koufax-dodgers-left-arm-god-si-60
What a great article. Thanks for sharing. Koufax was truly one of a kind.
Tonight’s lineup:
Mookie
Seager
Pollock (DH)
Belly
Muncy
CT3 (LF)
Lux
Rios (3b)
Barnes
One other thing, it was 101 in Denver yesterday. Today, they are expecting 6 inches of snow. It is about 29 degrees here where I live right now. Lots of clouds. We are also expected to get some snow. Keep warm gang!
It was 121 (yup, you read that right) here in the valley on Sunday.
Six inches of snow sounds pretty good right about now.
Even for Colorado, a 70 degree change from one day to the next must be very unusual.
I was in Denver for the Craft Brewers Conference 2 years ago when it was 90+ one day and 6 inches of snow the next. Wild! I love Denver
Snow is here. Some of the Rockies fans have lost touch with reality. They think it is a big deal that they won that last series. If memory serves, Rocks at one point had lost 12 straight at Dodger Stadium. and won something like 4 of the last 24 games there. Weird.
Bellinger headed south, again. Muncy under the Mendoza. Lux looking very far up to it. Methinks we are going to need some HRs in this series because RISP may be difficult to acheive with these hitters. We need a sweep!
Belli has been on twice with a walk and a single. So tell me, how is he headed south? Do not look now, but when the Dodgers play SD next week, 1st place could very well be on the line. Buehler human again, gives up 5 in less then 3 innings. Offense had better come alive or the lead is down to 3 1/2. SD is pounding the Rockies.,
Before that hit, Belli was batting .200. BBs are the Dodgers specialty. Let’s see some hits WRISP. Then I’ll declare him coming back. When you have a .301 OBP, you are not batting very well.
Buehler gives up 2 HRs, continuing his streak. No efficiency and lost his cool with that mound visit. This covid season has played havoc on him. No resemblance to the ‘ace’ we thought we had.
Yes, I’m beginning to believe that SD will give us a real fight. They show no sign of slumping even with Hosmer injured. Pitching has gotten better, too. We still have a tough BP and they will have to do their job if we want to stay in first place.
Taylor with our first RISP!
I think they showed Buehler with a blister on his finger.
I wish Beaty was in there he needs more at bats to show if he should start in the playoffs or not.
We need some HRs for a comeback tonight. BP can hold ’em!
With Lux’s 2 bombs all of a sudden Lux has past Bellinger and Muncy in OPS.
My worst nightmare that I kind of expected about the Dodgers is happening. The bullpen hasn’t been strong lately.
What a wild game. Twice down by 4 to come back and win.
If the DBacks hadn’t intentionally walked Muncy in the 10th, they would’ve tied it.
Kenley didn’t have it from early tonight, no velocity or cut, so
I would’ve pulled him after the Walker Dinger. That outing can’t have done his confidence going forward any good.
Michael – thanks for all the effort you are putting into these pieces.