In 1999 Nike came out with a clever commercial featuring Tom Glavine, Greg Maddux, Mark McGwire and Heather Locklear. Rather than pay attention to the Cy Young award winning pitchers, Glavine and Maddux, Heather swooned over Mark McGuire and his ability to hit the ball over the fence. After a stringent work out regiment, Glavine and Maddux hit some out in batting practice and, for the first time, Heather Locklear noticed them, causing Maddux and Glavine to congratulate each other and say “Chicks dig the long ball.”
If the statement is true, then Heather Locklear would have gone completely gaga gaga over Frank “Hondo” Howard who, without the aid of performance enhancing drugs, could hit the ball a long, long way. Before there was a Mark McGuire, Jose Canseco, Aaron Judge or Giancarlo Stanton, before there were Belli Bombs, came one Frank “Hondo” Howard. Frank Howard, who played several years for the Dodgers, hit some of the longest homeruns on record. He hit a 500′ home run into the upper deck in the left field bleachers of RFK Stadium. He also hit one that traveled an estimated 562′ feet in Forbes Field in Pittsburgh. He once hit a home run one handed while playing for the Detroit Tigers. In the first game of the 1963 World Series, he hit a 460′ double off Whitey Ford that was the longest double in Yankee Stadium history. In the forth game, again off Whitey Ford, he hit a home run 450 feet into the upper deck in deep left field. Only four players, according to the Dodgers, ever reached the loge level (second level) with home runs: Frank Howard, Dave Kingman (twice), Dave Parker and Nick Esasky. Howard was the first to do it, and it would be another 41 years before another player duplicated that feat. In one week in 1968, Howard hit 10 homeruns in 20 at bats!! He is one of three players (along with Harmon Killebrew and Cecil Fielder) to have reached the top of the left-field roof at Tiger Stadium. Some say he is the only player ever to whack a fair ball out of Yankee Stadium (though the umpire ruled it foul, outfielder Bobby Murcer said it was fair). He hit 24 homeruns into the upper deck at Washington’s RFK Stadium. They painted the seats white where the home runs landed. During 16 big-league seasons, Howard hit 382 home runs, the most ever for a man his size. What’s even more amazing, he did it without the use of steroids or other performance enhancing drugs. His home runs came from sheer physical strength. No one ever accused Howard of cheating. As one reporter put it:
“Putting Howard on steroids would’ve been like giving Popeye an extra can of spinach
Frank Howard was a giant of a man, both literally and figuratively. At 6′ 8″ 260 lbs he was physically imposing. But, in character, he epitomized the term the “Gentle Giant”. He was one of the nicest men to play the game. “Frank is probably the most popular guy — in any sport — in the city, and he still is,” teammate Hank Allen said. “I don’t know anybody who was more humble than him.” Dusty Baker said of him, “He’s the most pleasant gentle giant of a man that I know.”
Frank Oliver Howard was born August 8, 1936, in Columbus, Ohio, to John and Erma Howard, the third of six children. Frank grew up modestly.
“There was always lots of food on the table,” Howard remembered, “but if we kids wanted money, we had to earn it.”
And that’s just what Frank would do. He shined shoes, caddied, and didn’t shy away from hard manual labor.
“When I was 14,” he recalled, “I worked a hundred-pound jackhammer in the streets for the city of Columbus, got paid maybe a dollar and a half an hour and was glad to get it.”
When he was in his sophomore year at Columbus South High School, he had grown to 6-foot-5, 195 pounds. I can relate to being tall in high school. I was 6′ 4″ entering the 7th grade. Only difference between me and Howard, albeit ever so slight, was that I weighed a whopping and muscular 135 pounds when I graduated high school.
Frank’s father played semipro baseball and encouraged his son’s interest in the game. Howard did not develop any interest in football, but he did play basketball. I was not able to find any information about his high school statistics, but I did learn that Howard was good enough to be widely recruited to play college basketball. Howard became a basketball star for the Buckeyes, earning All-American honors as a junior, and setting a Madison Square Garden record in a holiday tournament with 32 rebounds in a game, and 75 for the three games. Howard played three basketball seasons (1956-58) for Ohio State. He averaged 20.1 points and 15.3 rebounds in 1957 when he was a first team All-American. He led the Buckeyes in both scoring and rebounding in 1957 and 1958 and made All-Big Ten both seasons. He was also drafted by the Philadelphia Warriors of the NBA. He also played baseball for Ohio State, eclipsing the .300 mark in two seasons and displaying occasional glimpses of the power for which he would become known. He was named All-American once. What’s even more amazing, is that since they didn’t offer scholarships like they do now, and because he came from a family that couldn’t afford to pay his way, Howard would get jobs around campus to help pay his way. One of the jobs was working on a cement crew. The foreman told Howard’s coach Floyd Stahl,
“Frank does twice as much work as any laborer I’ve had.”
The Brooklyn Dodgers started scouting Howard when he was a sophomore at OSU. Scout Cliff Alexander filed a telling report:
“Good arm. Fielding below average. Hitting below average (good potential). Running speed slightly below average. Major league power. Definite follow.”
After his final basketball season ended, Howard let major-league scouts know that he was ready to sign. He had a lot of offers, but the Dodgers had been talking to him for a couple of years and he never seriously considered any other team. Alexander remembers Howard calling him up to tell him that Paul Richards, who was running the Baltimore Orioles at the time, had offered a $120,000 bonus. Howard asked Alexander for $108,000—$100,000 for himself, and $8,000 to be put toward a new house for his parents. Alexander agreed, and Howard was on his way.
Howard started his Dodgers career in 1958, with the Green Bay Bluejays in the Class-B Three-I League. Former Brooklyn star outfielder Pete Reiser was his manager. Howard hit .333 and led the league with 37 home runs and 119 RBI. He was named the league’s Most Valuable Player.
His debut was impressive enough that the Dodgers called Howard up to the big leagues in September. He made his debut on September 10, 1958, at Philadelphia’s Connie Mack Stadium. He would go 2-4 off Robin Roberts including a a mammoth two-run home run in his second big-league at-bat. Apparently, the homerun hit a billboard atop the left-field roof, causing left-fielder Harry Anderson to say “I was afraid the billboard was going to fall over onto my head. A few games later, in a game against Cincinnati, Howard came to bat with Duke Snider on third base. Up in the radio booth, Dodgers announcer Vin Scully commented wryly that Snider was standing way off the foul line in deference to Howard’s propensity for pulling line drives down the line. Just as Scully said this, Howard hit a vicious line drive that hit Snider in the head, knocking him briefly unconscious and ending his season. For his brief appearance in 1958, Howard hit .241 in 29 at-bats, with the one home run and 2 RBI.
In 1959 the Dodgers sent Howard to Victoria of the Texas League. Once again, he handled the league rather easily. In the first 63 games Howard had hit 27 home runs, with 79 RBI, and a .371 average. The triple crown seemed in reach. While GM Buzzie Bavasi was on a scouting trip to the team, Howard happened to hit a 520-foot home run to win a game. That was enough Howard to be brought back to Los Angeles. However, Howard only stayed a week, going just 2-for-19 before getting optioned out to Spokane (Triple-A Pacific Coast League). While there, he hit .317 with 16 more home runs. Howard would return to the Dodgers in mid-September. Because the Dodgers were in the midst of a pennant race, Howard only got two at-bats. One of which was a pinch-hit home run off the Cardinals’ Lindy McDaniel. The Dodgers did win the pennant and the World Series, without any contribution from Howard. After the season Howard was named Minor League Player of the Year by The Sporting News.
Despite having only 50 major league at-bats, by the spring of 1960, Howard was a much discussed player. Stories were being told of his 500-foot minor-league home runs, and that he hit his line drives so hard that they scared base runners and infielders. Visions of the next Babe Ruth were not uncommon. Jim Gilliam shared the opinion of many when he said of Howard, “a man that big should hit fifty homers every year—and I mean every year.”
In 1960, the Dodgers had a good combination of old and young outfielders. They included Tommy Davis, Ron Fairly, Willie Davis, and Howard. Duke Snider and Carl Furillo were still on the team but by May, Furillo retired which opened a spot on the team for Howard, who had been sent back to Spokane to start the season. Soon after his call up Howard became the regular right fielder and, despite a late-season slump, ended up hitting .268 with 23 home runs. This was good enough for him to be named the National League Rookie of the Year.
In 1961 Howard had chipped a bone in his thumb. As a result, his season started very slowly. He started just 72 games, but he did hit better than his rookie year, .296 with 15 home runs in just 267 at-bats.
After the 1961 season the Dodgers lost both of their first basemen, Gil Hodges and Norm Larker, in the expansion draft, causing them to move Ron Fairly to first base. This opened up more playing time for Howard. He started 123 games in 1962, and hit .296 with 31 home runs (seventh in the league) and 119 RBI (fifth). With the power though, came the whiffs. He struck out 108 times and only walked 39 times. The Dodgers won 102 games that year but lost to the Giants in the playoffs (it actually hurt to type that!)
In 1963 Howard learned that his vision was screwed up (20/40 vision in his good eye and 20/60 in his left). He was fitted for some glasses and hit three home runs in four games He was fitted for some glasses and hit three home runs in four games after he started wearing them. After a hot start to the season, Howard slumped in May, which cost him his full-time job. He then platooned with Wally Moon for the rest of the season. Howard still managed 28 home runs (by far the most on the team) and a .273 batting average in 417 at-bats. But even with the glasses, he set an all-time Dodgers record with 116 strikeouts. Despite that, Howard would wear glasses for the rest of his career.
After the 1963 season Howard was 27 years old and people no longer believed he would turn into Babe Ruth. Many would come down on him because he was seen as less than their expectations. Howard, though, had a more measured view.
“I think I am a realistic guy,” he said. “I have the God-given talents of strength and leverage. I realize that I can never be a great ballplayer because a great ballplayer must be able to do five things well: run, field, throw, hit and hit with power. I am mediocre in four of those — but I can hit with power. I have a chance to be a good ballplayer. I work on my fielding all the time, but in the last two years I feel that I have gotten worse as a fielder. My greatest fear was being on the bases, and I still worry about it. I’m afraid to get picked off. I’m afraid to make a mistake on the bases, and I have made them again and again, but here I feel myself getting better.”
In 1964 both Buzzie Bavasi and Walt Alston told Howard that he would play regularly that year. Howard started the first 49 games of the 1964 season, but hit just .215 despite 14 home runs (second in the league to Willie Mays). At which point Alston began to platoon Howard again. He ended the year with 433 at-bats, 24 home runs, and a .226 average. After the season, Howard asked to be traded. Because Bavasi and Alston had come to believe that you could not win at Dodger Stadium with power, and that they needed to improve their pitching, defense, and speed, they obliged Howard. On December 4th Howard, along Ken McMullen, and pitchers Phil Ortega and Pete Richert were traded to the Washington Senators for pitcher Claude Osteen, infielder John Kennedy, and $100,000. I was heartbroken when this trade was made, as a 13 year old, I was definitely among those who thought Howard would be Babe Ruth, or at least Roger Maris. While there are arguments to be made as to who benefitted the most from the trade, Osteen stabilized the rotation and helped the Dodgers win the World Series in 1965.
Howard, on the other hand, went on to become one of the most popular players, if not the most popular player, in Washington. At the time of the trade, the Washington Senators were an expansion team that had lost at least 100 games in their first 4 years. In 1965, Howard battled injuries all year, but played 149 games and hit .289 with 21 home runs and 84 RBI, all team-leading figures. For the first time, he played mainly left field rather than right.
In 1966 his statistics were about the same (.278, 18, 71 in 146 games). Bear in mind this was in the era of the pitcher and run scoring was really depressed. Although Howard was not a star, his OPS of .790 compared favorably to the AL’s .670. Although he wasn’t tearing things up statistically, he continued to add to his legend, with his long home runs. One of note was hit against the White Sox at D.C. Stadium.
“Tommy John threw him something,” recalled teammate Fred Valentine, “and he hit a line drive back at him. John fell off the mound trying to get out of the way of the ball. Center-fielder Tommie Agee started in like he was going to catch a line drive. It was like a 2-iron, and it ended up in the upper deck in centerfield. They painted another seat.”
Before the 1967 season, manager Gil Hodges worked with Howard to retool his swing. He felt that Frank’s level swing was producing hard ground balls, and asked Frank to try a slight uppercut and to stand closer to the plate so he could pull the ball more. The results were immediate, as Howard had 24 home runs by midseason, and finished with 36 (third in the league) and a .256 average. He led the league with 155 strikeouts, and walked only 60 times, but his OPS of .849 was still eighth in the AL. It was his best season to date.
In 1968 Hodges was replaced by Jim Lemon. 1968, is historically recognized as the Year of the Pitcher, as the AL hit .230 and had shutouts in 20 percent of its games. Bucking this trend, Howard took a step forward and became the hitter people had predicted he would become a decade earlier. He hit .338 in April, but his best stretch came in early May when he collected 10 home runs and 17 RBI in a span of six games. In so doing, he set records for home runs in four games (7), five games (8), and six games (10). As late as June 9, Howard held league leads in home runs (22), runs batted in (47), and batting average (.342). As the AL had had Triple Crown winners in each of the two previous seasons (Frank Robinson and Carl Yastrzemski), Howard’s statistics were getting quite a bit of attention. As usual, the slugger himself was less impressed than the media.
“All I’m trying to do is get three good cuts each time up. I haven’t changed my swing, and I don’t kid myself — I’m a streak hitter and I’m hot.”
Howard wasn’t able to sustain the pace, and for the season, he hit .274(which was still 10th in the AL). He also led the league with 44 home runs, 330 total bases, and a .552 slugging percentage, huge numbers for 1968, and he finished second with 106 RBI. He started his first All-Star Game.
“Jim Lemon did a marvelous job with me,” Howard recalled. “He just took it a little further than Gil took it in ’67. He moved me a little closer to the plate, spread me out a little bit more, cut down on the overstride, and as a result, I was starting to get a little more selective at the plate, and probably had my first really good year in the big leagues.”
Chuck Essegian had given Howard the nickname “Hondo” when they roomed together with the Dodgers. The nickname stuck throughout his career, although in Washington he was also known as the “Washington Monument” and “Capital Punisher.”
in 1969, Ted Williams was hired to manage the Senators. Howard credits Williams with the most dramatic changes in his career as a hitter. That spring, As Howard remembers it, Ted came up to him and said:
‘How can a guy who hits 44 homers get only 48 walks? You really like that first ‘number one,’ don’t you?‘ Howard responded, “I confessed that I did, adding that all the other pitches were UFOs (unidentified flying objects) to me. Ted laughed, but then he said: ‘Ever take two strikes to get a good pitch?’ I looked at him as if he was crazy, but then he said, ‘okay, how about one strike?‘
That year, Howard increased his walk total from 54 to 102, while his strikeouts fell from 141 to 96. He took advantage of more hitter’s counts, and ended up hitting .296 with 48 home runs and 111 RBI. He led the league with 330 total bases, and finished among the leaders in on base percentage (.402) and slugging percentage (.574). A cherry on top of his cake that year was hitting a home run off Steve Carlton in the All-Star Game, held at RFK Stadium in Washington, DC.
“I did it without even trying to walk,” said Howard. “I was ready to hit, if it was my pitch, but if it was something other than I was looking for, I took it. I was laying off some bad pitches, getting more counts in my favor, and all because of Ted Williams. He’s one in a million! A marvelous, marvelous, man!”
Can you imagine what Howard’s career might have been like if Williams had got a hold of him 10 years earlier? Williams was impressed with his student.
“He still hit more home runs, some of them out of sight. I mean he crushed the ball. I think without question the biggest, strongest guy who ever played this game.”
In 1970, Howard led the AL in home runs (44), RBI (126), and walks (132). Twenty-nine of his walks were intentional. The Indians were particularly afraid of him, as they intentionally walked Howard 12 times in 18 games. Star pitcher, Sam McDowell, was particularly afraid of Howard, who hit .368 with five home runs in 68 at-bats off McDowell in his career. It might have been worse; McDowell walked Howard 25 times, including nine times intentionally. Twice in 1970 Dark moved McDowell to another position with Howard due up, then moved him back to the mound when the coast was clear.
Having finished his 3 beat seasons, by 1971, Howard turned 34. Feeling his age, he dropped back at bit, hitting .279 with 26 home runs, though his 83 walks helped him remain one of the league’s most valuable offensive forces. Part of the problem may have been the fact that he weighed 197 pounds coming into spring training. Late that season, it was decided that the Senators would be relocated to Texas. In the team’s last game in D.C., on September 30, 1971, Howard hit the final home run by a Washington Senator. After Howard hit the home run, he received a long standing ovation from the crowd.
With Texas, Howard hit just .244 with nine home runs in 95 games before being sold to the Detroit Tigers. He helped the Tigers reach the playoffs, but because he didn’t report to the team until September 1, he was ineligible to play in the AL Championship Series against Oakland, which defeated Detroit in a close five-game series.
In 1972 the AL implemented the designated hitter, which seemed tailor-made for Howard. But it was not to be. Howard, in 85 games only hit 12 home runs and batted .256. He was released in October that year. In 1974 he signed to play with the Taiheyo Lions in Japan. However, he hurt in his back in his first at-bat of Japan’s Pacific League, but he hurt his back in his very first at-bat, and never played again. Howard’s playing career was over at age 37.
After he retired as a player, Howard remained involved with baseball. He managed the Spokane Indians in 1976. The next year he returned to the majors as a coach with the Milwaukee Brewers. He remained in the majors for the next 20 years. He managed the Padres for one year and he also managed the Mets for one season. the next and remained in the majors for most of the next 20 years. He had two brief trials as manager. He led the San Diego Padres in the strike-marred 1981 season, but was let go after the team finished last in both halves of the split season. Howard was well respected as a coach, but his employers seemed to feel that he was too nice a guy to be a successful manager. Besides the Brewers and the Mets, he also served as coach with the Seattle Mariners, the New York Yankees and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.
When the major leagues returned to Washington in 2005, with the relocation of the former Montreal Expos, Howard became the most visible link to the previous major-league teams that had played there. The Nationals initially played at RFK Stadium. The seats that had been painted for his home runs in the upper deck were still there. In 2008 the Nationals began play in the brand-new Nationals Park. In 2009, they unveiled three statues in their center field plaza, one of Walter Johnson (who pitched for the first 20th- century version of the Washington Senators), Josh Gibson (who starred in the Negro Leagues for the Homestead Grays, who played in Griffith Stadium), and Frank Howard (representing the expansion Senators). When the Nationals reached the postseason in 2012, Howard threw out the ceremonial pitch of the Division Series before Game Four.
From 1967 through 1970 Frank Howard was one of the most fearsome hitters in baseball. He hit 136 home runs between 1968 -1970. The next closest was Willie McCovey with 120. In those three years Frank “Hondo” Howard would hit 16 more home runs than anyone in baseball including the best players in the history of the game. Willie McCovey 120, Hank Aaron, 111, Harmon Killebrew 107, and Carl Yastrzemski 103. No matter how you slice it, that’s an amazing feat.
I glad that I had the pleasure of seeing Frank Howard play. He had some of the hardest hit balls that I had ever seen. If they kept statistics for exit velocity when he played, the numbers would be off the charts. In addition, het could hit the ball a long way. Even though I understood him being traded, I didn’t like it and wished he could have remained a Dodger his entire career. Moreover, if it is true that “chicks dig the long ball,” then women would absolutely have to adore Frank Howard!!
Great story! I of course was lucky enough to watch Hondo play. He hit some massive shots. I remember listening to Vinny on the radio one night in Philadelphia. Howard came up and hit a ball that left old Shibe Park. Vin said it was still gaining altitude when it left the stadium. He also hit a ball during batting practice in Dodger stadium that shattered one of the two by fours that served as back rests in the pavillion in left field. The ball was never more than maybe 20 feet above the ground. A real laser shot. I watched the homer he hit in game 4 off of Ford. He hit it right down the RF line into the second deck, and it looked like he did it one handed. He was one of my favorite players.
I saw that one, must have been 1963 or 1964. The ball went through the top part of the huge light tower in left field. I’ve never forgotten it or the sound of that ball off his bat. Amazing.
You hit another big fly on this one 2D2. Thank you.
I remember Frank Howard very well. I too was more than a little disturbed when he got traded. He did seem to be a gentle giant.
I believe it was 1962 when I saw a game between the Dodgers and the Colt 45’S . Frank hit a line drive to straight away centerfield. The ball cleared both fences and landed in the parking lot. It was a letters high fastball and was likely the hardest hit ball I ever saw. Thanks for the details on Frank’s career.
Just shows how invaluable good coaching can be. You’re so right 2dem. If only Williams would have taken a young Frank Howard under his wing! I think the Dodgers provide that kind of great coaching with their young players and it shows in the development of so many of them coming up and producing at the big league level. Speaking of which. What’s up with Lux? Something strange going on there!
In spring training, 19 60, Frank Howard was trying to make the Dodgers as an outfielder. At a game in West Palm Beach he was playing RF and Sandy Koufax was pitching. The batter hit a one hopper back to Koufax, but didn’t attempt to run to 1B. Sandy was toying with him by not throwing him out at first but making him run. The batter (runner?)was slowing heading toward first and suddenly turned on the speed. Sandy uncorked a missile toward first that sailed over the head of the first baseman going deep into foul territory in RF. The runner turned on the speed and tried to make it to 3B. Howard retrieved the ball and threw a strike to 3B to nail the runner. That throw looked like a throw that Furillo would make. I also hated when Howard was traded, but Osteen was a quality pitcher for the Dodgers behind Koufax & Drysdale.
Add me to the list of Dodgers faithful who hated the trade that sent Howard away. In the long run it was the best outcome for Hondo, but oh how I wanted him to be a Dodger power hitter
Good article 2D2. I actually didn’t pay much attention to Howard growing up so it’s nice to get more details on his career other than just the power stories we heard about. I sure love the articles on past players.
Thoughts on last night:
* How good was CK? His breaking stuff was just locking up the Mariner hitters. What did he have, 6 called strikeouts? He was credited with “giving the bullpen some needed rest”. After all. they only had about 6 available fresh arms.
* Mookie Betts is so good that when he was fooled and off balance on a change up and had a couple swings and misses in the last few games, I couldn’t believe my eyes. I have come to expect him to barrel it up every swing.
* The latest Vegas over / under line on Muncy hitting a baseball to the left side of the infield is 2025. It’s always possible that one day he might be so ahead of a pitch that he cues one off the end of the bat that stays fair down the 3rd base line. Even with that possibility, I took the OVER.
Let’s see what those Rockies bring to the dance.
Two Howard at-bats that I recall hearing Vin Scully describe on the radio. The time when Howard hit a line drive foul down the third base line that hit Duke Snider in the head, and his home run at Forbes Field Pittsburgh that cleared the left-centerfield fence. Scully was in awe of the towering home run that easily cleared the batting cage and then the left-centerfield fence that was 462′ from home plate.
Most old guys have a Frank Howard story. I was sitting first base side behind home and saw him hit a line drive into the top of the second deck right at the foul pole. It was straight as a string the whole way, hit empty seats and it sounded like a cannon went off. No way of knowing how far it would have measured but no doubt it had to be close to 480’. I’m pretty sure had it been hit to straight away left it might have cleared the pavilion. No Dodger fan wanted Howard traded. He was one of those rare players that had his best years after turning 30.
I was looking at his stats and noticed something that just leaped out at me. In 1968 he hit 44 home runs and only scored 79 times. He had 164 hits and walked 54 times. 28 doubles, 3 triples, HBP 6 times. When he didn’t drive himself in, he only scored 35 times out of being on base at least 180 times. That Senators team really sucked. They hit .224 as a team. OPS’d .623. Howard OPS’d .890.
NON-BASEBALL QUESTION FOR MARK:
Mark,
We live in West Los Angeles, I am told we have hard water.
We put a tankless water heater in about 3 years ago. I like the team who installed it.
THey are now recommending a filtration process to strip out calcium and other minerals who can jeopardize the lifespan (25 years?!?!?!?) of the tankless heater.
For reasons I’ll struggle with, this feels like more of a sales pitch than a genuine recommendation.
What are your thoughts?
What water utility are you on?
What product are they recommending?
I can look up the Water Report online and there are a lot of “smoke and mirror” systems out there. If I know what it is, I will give you the facts.
I am most appreciative.
DWP is our utility.
They recommend, and I’m not sure if these are the official names:
Heater Treater (a filter cartridge machine to provide scale protection)
Thermal Expansion tank (provides water pressure protection)
Flow Tech System (induction, low AM frequency signals that reverse the charge on particles in the water.)
I looked up your water quality report and your water is not exceptionally hard. You can find the report here:
https://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/faces/ladwp/aboutus/a-water/newlink?_adf.ctrl-state=14z4uu8c4u_4&_afrLoop=115206390209873
Your level of silica is at a level that it is a problem as it “plates” a lot like hardness. The Heater Treater uses polyphosphates or some sort of hexametaphosphate to “coat” the heating surfaces and provide some protection. I would install it on the inlet to the water heater. It will help protect it. There are a number of products such as this. We sell a product called The Limeblaster:
https://www.uswatersystems.com/us-water-limeblaster-salt-free-water-conditioner-10-gpm.html
A thermal expansion tank is a great idea.
Save your money on the Flow Tech System – it works just as well as a Star Trek Transporter… and we know that stuff is real! 😉 In other words, it is bogus! You cannot reverse the charges of ions in the water -their whole explanation is fundamentally flawed.
So this limeblaster is much cheaper than the Heater Treater. Are they comprable in terms of performance and preventing scale/plate?
One “non-power” story that I forgot to add to my article is: Howard readily admitted that he wasn’t the best of fielders. In Washington he played mostly left field, with Hank Allen playing center field. Frank often joked that when a fly ball came toward left center, Howard would holler out “I’ll try it, I’ll try it”, but Allen would say “I’ve got it” and more often than not did catch it.
CK was magnificent last night. The slider and curve made his fastball that much more effective. Let’s hope that he carries that into the post season.
Dodgers rotation for the Rocks, today, Buehler-Gray, Sat, May-Freeland, Sun, Strip-Senzatela. Gray was pretty good his last time out. Freeland is a lefty who has always given the Dodgers fits, and Senzatela is so far this year, the Rocks best starter. Matt Kemp comes home sporting a .264 average with 2 homers and 11 RBI’s mainly as a DH. The Rockies bats woke up some in a loss to the Stros yesterday. They had lost consecutive 2-1 games earlier in the week. Blackmon comes in hitting .424, Story at .291, leading the team in long balls with 7. Arenado also has 7 dingers, but his BA is at .234. Only Tapia and Blackmon are over .300. They are 5 games back and 2-8 in their last 10 games.Dodgers leading the majors with 50 homers. Padres who have hit grand slams in 4 consecutive games, a MLB record, are 2 behind with 48. Rockies have 31 homers, but their team batting average is .270. Dodgers .244.
I was still in Canada when Howard was traded on the verge of moving to SoCal. I followed him and thought he was an awesome hitter, one of the best of the Dodger players. I ,too, hated to see him traded, although Osteen was a valuable addition. Nice write-up 2D2. You did a lot of research. Thank you. ps missed your parody.
Hondo was a featured part of Danny Kaye’s great baseball song. D-o-d-g-e-r-s. Here comes big Frank Howard yessiree! Boy what a swing, strike three! I did love watching him hit. When he took BP at Dodger stadium the sound of the ball coming off of his bat when he connected was just totally different from anyone else. Imagine being a BP pitcher when he would hit one back up the middle. Your life would pass in front of you!
I have wondered whether Howard would have been enough of a difference maker offensively for the Dodgers in those offense-starved seasons to have offset the absence of Osteen.
Osteen was with the Dodgers for 9 seasons (1965 – 1973). His best season was probably 1969, when he threw 321 innings and was 20 – 15 with a 2.66 ERA and was a 5.8 WAR pitcher. For his 9 season Dodger career, he was 147 – 126, 3.09 ERA, 1.217 WHIP and accumulated 26.2 WAR.
After Howard was traded, he played 8 full seasons. His best year was also 1969, when he hit .296, OPS .976, 48 HR and OPS+ was 178. He was a 5.7 WAR player.
In his 8 season post-Dodger career, he accumulated 37.4 oWAR but because his dWAR was between -1.3 and -3.4 for those seasons, he accumulated 24.6 WAR.
They were pretty even, all things considered.
And the hardest hit baseball that I ever saw was hit by Frank Howard in 1973 in his last season. He had gotten really fat and was relegated to part-time DH duty. He was badly fooled by a curveball which was on the outside part of the plate. His top hand came off of the bat. He pulled this outside pitch with only one hand on the bat and I swear that it only took a second for the ball to get out of the part. It was a low outfield fence and the ball never got more than about 10 feet off of the ground.
My dad used to talk about a game when the Dodgers were still in the Coliseum. They were playing the Pirates who had Don Hoak at 3B. Howard was going 1st to 3rd on a single and the throw came in when Howard did. Howard slid into Hoak so hard that Hoak flew in the air past the 3rd base coaches box and was knocked unconscious. But he held onto the ball so Howard was out!
I don’t think Howard would have been the difference maker. First, there would be no guarantee that he would have put up the same numbers as he did in DC. Dodger Stadium was definitely not a hitters park in that day. Plus, I’m not sure Alston would ever have given him the same opportunity he received with the Nationals. Bavasi and Alston were convinced that power wouldn’t play in Dodger Stadium.
Billy Ashley, Greg Brock and Mike Marshall were all mentioned as potential Howard like hitters. None of them achieved similar success. And, none of them are ever mentioned among those hitters who could hit the ball a long ways and exceptionally hard.
Agreed. but they were the Senators then ol friend, And they are now the Rangers. The Nationals ties are to the Expos. But I love ya anyway!
It’s terrible getting old!
I feel yer pain bro!
Correct me if I’m wrong (which is usually the case), but wasn’t Billy Ashley touted as our next Frank Howard?
I think you might be right, I always thought if Howard quit playing he could have easily slid into the role of Lurch on the Adams Family or Herman Munster. I remember a Munster’s episode, starring Leo Durocher where Herman virtually destroyed their practice field and the Dodgers did not sign him because they figured it would cost them 50,000 dollars in repairs every game he played. The whole thing started when Leo was hit on the head by a baseball. When he asked where was the closest field and was told 6 blocks away, he went and saw Herman. At the end of the episode, Leo and Elroy, Crazy Legs Hirsch were walking down the street, Hirsch was hit in the head by a football, Leo looked at him and said, don’t ask! Funny stuff. I really liked the nickname, Capital Punisher. Baseball has so few catchy nicknames these days.
I don’t know about that. I think “Way Back Wasdin” is one of the best names I’ve ever heard.
I thought that the trade for Osteen was imperative. The Dodgers did not have enough starting pitching after Koufax, who had missed the last six weeks of the just concluded season, and Drysdale. Osteen was 15-13 for a very weak Washington Senators team, which was very impressive. He was great in the clutch in the 1965 pennant race, and won the crucial third game of the world series, when the Dodgers were down 0-2. He was always a money pitcher. Howard was a fun player to watch, but it was mostly confined to homeruns, and there were a lot of strikeouts, too. It was a great trade, and helped us win two pennants by giving us the #3 starter which we desperately needed. Howard was a great guy, classy, but Osteen was more necessary. There were no free agents then, of course, you either brought up talent or traded for it.
Why is Stripling still in the rotation and not Gonsolin? The season is about half over. The Dodgers need to figure out who their top three pitchers are, because you do not use five starters in the playoffs. is Gonsolin the #3, or is it May, or unlikely, Urias? it is not Stripling. And i would probably rather have Pollock in the lineup than Pedersen, no matter who is pitching against us. The one thing to muse about is that while we are winning a lot of games, they are almost all against weak teams. We need to hone our game in preparation for what will likely be tougher opponents than we have faced, and figure out who needs to be on the mound in short series.
This is why I’m a proponent of bringing in a playoff game starter at the trade deadline.
You would have to ask management why Strip is still in there. Probably because he is a veteran, deserves one more shot at least. Is Gonsolin the # 4 on this team? Urias has been way too erratic for my taste. As for the fact they are playing weak teams, the NL West, if the season were over today, would have 4 teams in the playoffs. Only the Giants would miss it. The strongest teams according to what we deem as good pitching they see this year are the Astros and A’s. And they do not see the A’s until the last week of the season for a 3 game series at home. So they had better feast on the carrion while they can. The 4 teams who besides the NL west who would qualify are Atlanta, the Cubs, Miami and St.Louis. All the other teams are below .500. In the AL it would be Tampa, NY, Toronto, Cleveland, Minn, Chicago, Oakland and Houston. Yanks have some serious problems with their rotation. Toronto behind Ryu does not have much. Cleveland is bringing up their prize rookie since they sent Clevenger to the alternate site. Houston’s best starter has been Grienke, Verlander no where near ready yet. Tampa has probably the best rotation in that league right now. No one is getting dominating starts up and down their rotations. This is going to be one playoffs where the bullpens are going to be super important as will jumping out to early leads. I agree with Bobby that if they make any deals at the deadline it should be a solid starting pitcher. Bauer would probably cost the least since he would be a one month rental. Lynn, or someone of that ilk is going to cost more.
Bobby and Bear (didn’t you guys have the hit song “Marie Laveau? Oh, sorry, that was Bobby Bare)
I agree with both of you. I think a starter at the deadline is in play. Bauer would be interesting and I believe he now signs only one-year contracts. Maybe he’s be interested in the Dodgers this year and more?
My eyes tell me May and Gonsolin should be in the rotation. I have openly complained that Gonsolin get sent to USC. And for Gonzales who replaced Gonz, I see him being of zero help for the Dodgers this year, Maybe they want him to get game experience, which means nothing to me this year when compared to screwing over Gonsolin.. Gonzales is not needed in a bullpen that already has 5 quality left handed pitchers. Plus Wood’s return to the staff and the likelihood that Urias will be in the bullpen for the playoffs ( and should be now IMO).
Gonsolin is a big contributor and needs to be with the club and treated like a starter. The season is half over and it’s no time for “Pitcher’s Try-Out Camp”.
William I agree on playing Pollock more and sitting Joc. Yeah, I know Joc hit a million homers last year or whatever. This is THIS YEAR and he’s a dog.
I agree that the competition in the West has been weak except the Padres and we’ll see about the Rockies on the NL side. I’m not taking anything away from the Dodgers. You play who’s on your schedule. But half way through, name be a big time pitcher who they’ve faced, The best they have faced as far as I can see have been Cueto, Zac Gallen, Paddack who looked bad and maybe Valdez from the Asstros. They haven’t seen the likes of guys that will see in the playoffs. They haven’t face a Gerritt Cole, Shane Bieber. Lance Lynn and even Trevor Bauer?
And most likely we won’t have to face Srasburg in October. He may be done for the year.
It is not looking like the Nats will even get to the post season, But they do have pretty good starters in Corbin and Scherzer. No, the Dodgers have faced very few premium pitchers this season.
There is absolutely no proof that Urias has that kind of pedigree. His stuff plays as pretty nasty. His performance as a starter to date does not show that he is the caliber of an ace. And no one has tried to paint Wood as an ace. But Wood’s pedigree as a starter is pretty clear. He has had more success as a starter than Urias.
Joc the dog! Love it woof woof! I also think Urias should be demoted to the pen. Throughout his short career he has been much better from the pen. Wood has a better track record as a starter than he does.
I agree Urias is better out of the pen so far in his career and should be in there now. The question becomes how many left handed pitchers do you need to carry in the pen?
Wrong! Urias will be a future co ace on this staff in a year or two. Wood will be selling insurance!
His power did not really play in a pitchers park like Dodger Stadium was. He hit 39 there in 205 games. He hit 18 at the coliseum. He never played a game against the Dodgers. In the American League he hit his most HR’s against the Indians, Red Sox and the Orioles. He had his highest BA against the Angels at .326. In the NL, the only team he had more than 20 career homers against was the Giants. But he mashed against the Mets with a .360 average. The Red Sox were the only team he had more than 100 career RBI’s against. He was a career .273 hitter and close to that at .269 in his 7 years as a Dodger. I would love to see Muncy and Joc hit .273. Fun player to watch. You were always wondering if he would hurt someone really bad when he hit one.
Congrats to Clayton for his place as number two on the Dodger pitching strikeout list.
Great game for him and the team including the bullpen.
Before the season started I was thinking the Dodgers offense would be right there at the top in all of baseball and would carry the team if there were any flaws in the pitching, but the offense isn’t there, at least not yet.
I have to say that the bullpen is pitching better than the career stats would suggest. Particularly Kolarek, Floro, Ferguson. Maybe Kolarek and Floro have figured out how to get the opposite side of the plate batters out. And maybe Ferguson has figured out what he has done wrong in the past. Time will tell on all of that I guess.
I don’t wish injuries on anyone, but I don’t miss Wild Man Kelly. Santana definitely isn’t a high leverage option or any option. And Alexander is Alexander an average reliever, not bad but I don’t want him in close games.
I don’t know why Stripling is still a starter, but there are a lot of thing that I can’t figure out when it comes to Doc’s decisions. Oh well.
The team record is right up there at the top, but I’m nervous about the playoffs, too many question marks.
An underrated player Gonsolin.
I disagree about Alexander. He has pitched as many innings as Kolarek and the only blemish against him is the one homer he has served up. He is a ground ball pitcher and in that capacity he has been highly effective. And at some point Kelly is going to be back. Kelly will be in the pen if he is healthy. One, his stuff is nasty, two, he is far more experienced in playoff baseball than most of the guys in the pen, and he has had success in the playoffs. The team batting average is mediocre at best. But in one sense you are right, they have not hit on all offensive cylinders yet and probably won’t until Joc, Muncy and Belli show some sort of life. The playoffs this season are going to be a huge crapshoot anyway you look at it. 3 game series the first round, all games at the park of the higher ranked team. maybe even in a neutral site if the MLB decides to go the bubble route. Then the NLDS and NLCS before you can go to the series. Which means you need 13 wins to be the World Champion instead of 7.
You are right, the Dodgers are not hitting on all cylinders, and they still have the BEST OFFENSE in baseball.
In 27 games they have scored 10 more runs than the next two teams (Padres and Rays).
Their run differential is +66 which is DOUBLE every other team except Minnesota.
Imagine when they get Bellinger, Joc and Muncy untracked.
Insofar as to the starters, I suspect they will give them 8-10 starts before making a knee jerk reaction.
Mark
The number of games played by each team is erratic because of the coronavirus. Plus part of run differential is pitching. You state flawed numbers a lot.
Explain to me how that is flawed and use real life stats, not theoretical ones.
Kershaw needs a couple of more innings to qualify, but if he had them, he would be 9th in the NL in ERA.
Today vs Gray:
Joc (RF)
Seager
JT
Belly (DH)
Muncy (2b)
Pollock (CF)
Beaty (1b)
CT3 (LF)
Barnes
Buehler
It may have been already answered, but I’ll ask for Cassidy and I, “What’s up with Lux”??? No rumor floating about???
Great story on Hondo, he was something to watch…
Yep I was a fan of Ashley too… I was thinking great things for him and then he ran into Uncle Charlie and the rest was history..
peterj, was wondering about Lux and Thomas also. Are they injured and did I miss something about Smith being put on the IL list if he is? Thanks for anyone supplying the info to forgetful me.
Will Smith is on the IL. No word on Lux or Thomas. Cody Thomas may have opened eyes in ST but he was never going to make the 40 man this year. I do not know if he is at USC or if he is still on the IL. Lux was never put on the IL, and we are not going to get anything out of LAD other than…”We are still very high on him, and he will get back to the ML team at some point, but he is just not ready.” There is no press at the secondary sites, so nobody who can check up on him. I would imagine that AF, Brandon Gomes, or Josh Byrnes are watching very closely. I would imagine that at least one of the three is at USC evaluating every day.
Thank you AC. I am sure they are being well taken care of and they are monitoring them. Just was wondering if they had any recent news on them. I guess impatient me will have to wait until next year to see Lux, McKinstry and Thomas shine. I have great hopes for them.
McKinstry could still make the roster for a bit. He is generally on the taxi squad, so he travels with the team. I have no idea where Lux is at in the discussion. I have zero idea if he upset the baseball people by reporting late and not ready. I guess we will find out if he is moved this winter. But you will have to wait until 2021 for Cody Thomas.
Billy Ashley, Greg Brock, and Franklin Stubbs. All supposed to be big time power hitters. Sometimes players just do not achieve the level expected. All three had decent careers (at least 7 years), but were huge disappointments. Ashley, never hitting more than 9 HRs was the biggest disappointment of all three.
Count me as one who was happy with the trade of Frank Howard for Claude Osteen. I loved Howard’s monster HRs, but without Osteen, IMO the Dodgers do not win 1965 WS. His shutout victory in Game 3 was a series changer. He may have lost Game 6, but he did not pitch badly. In 1966, he again pitched Game 3, but this time got no offense and lost 1-0 to the Orioles. In 21 WS innings (3 games started), he allowed 2 earned runs. How excited would we fans be if we had an Ace that pitched that well in the playoffs. He was a fantastic Dodgers pitcher. As was mentioned above he won 147 games in 9 seasons, and average 266.1 innings pitched. Different era. #23 will always be remembered fondly by me.
Mark stated….”the Dodgers are not hitting on all cylinders, and they still have the BEST OFFENSE in baseball.
In 27 games they have scored 10 more runs than the next two teams (Padres and Rays).
Their run differential is +66 which is DOUBLE every other team except Minnesota.
Imagine when they get Bellinger, Joc and Muncy untracked.” They are 19 and 8.
So please tell me why we need Lux, Thomas and/or McKinstry, barring injuries, for the next 30 games?
Because Muncy shows no sign of turning anything around and neither has Joc. They are playing a man short right now and carrying only 12 position players. They still are striking out too much, and their BA with runners in scoring position is not very good. And with the trading deadline only 10 days away, they do not have enough time to give their starters 10 starts by that time. They need another starter to give them length. I think it has gotten into Muncy’s head. Best offense? Maybe by run differential, but they as a team are hitting only .244. The Rockies are hitting 26 points higher. When your 2 best home run hitters are not hitting like these 3 are not it is putting a lot of pressure on the rest of the lineup to produce.
I too am extremely frustrated with Joc and Muncy. But know AF and Doc, there is no way that Thomas, Lux or McKinstry are going to come up and take their spots. We’re going to “dance with who bring ya” for this season. We may add a couple of position players to fill the roster and go with less pitchers but we will go with the basic core players. And should. I’ve said it often, this is not the time for “try-out camp”. That can happen next March.
They are where they are not because of the offense, but because of the pitching. Especially the bullpen. They have faced very few elite pitchers this season. And since most of their competition is going to be from their own division, they won’t. They have the highest run differential because those pitchers do not give up many runs. And against mediocre pitching they wait them out and eventually score a lot of runs. I am not saying anything about Thomas, from what I have gathered he went on the IL before the restart and nothing has been said about him. McKinstry on the other hand performed well. They are missing Smith and Rios. And as for Lux, he seems to have fallen off the planet. The only offensive players on the current roster and down at the alternate site are McKinstry, Lux, DJ Peters and Luke Raley. And of those only Raley and Lux have any experience at all. Gale is the only other catcher at the alternate site now, and he can’t hit a lick. Of the guys at the alternate site, Estevez, and Garcia probably the two closest to being MLB ready. As far as I know, Gore is no longer around. But I am more concerned about the starting pitching. Buehler has been mediocre, Gonsolin and May have shown some very good stuff, but are very short on experience. Wood is right now not available, and Urias is far from reliable. Even Strip, who has been mostly consistent in his career has shown cracks in his armor his last couple of starts. So unless they start getting more LENGTH from the starters, they are going to have some serious problems come playoff time when they start facing better pitching.
Sorry, Phil, I was just asking about their well beings, not asking them to all be in the next 30 games, although maybe one of them if they are ready would help on the bench while Rios and Smith are on the IL.
It’s all good dDBMom. I didn’t mean to put words in your mouth. I would never take a shot at you.
Finally they sit Betts and put Joc in rf and lead off! Watch the offense take off now!
Thanks Phil. We are good.
To me enough already on Joc!!! Do you how many times we could have sold high or semi high we could have gotten some good pieces on him.. It pisses me off…
Muncy Not Yet, but patience is a virtue…
Take that Mookie! There’s a new sheriff in the lead off role! Now that’s some lead off juice!
Observations so far:
1. Mookie is becoming the Face of the Franchise.
2. Belli is heating up.
3. I am changing Walker’s name back to Striker.
4. Joc is improving.
5. Kemp is fat!
Buehler is having a decent outing. Seems like he’s getting a little bit more grooved every start. Should be ready for the playoffs! Beaty quietly doing real well.
DECENT?!!!! This is a tough crowd! AWESOME is the word you’re looking for!
I’ve always said Buehler is the ace of the staff. No offense to Kershaw.
Now we need Doc to put Gonsolin in the starting rotation and leave him there.
If carrying only 12 position players means Beaty gets more at bats then I’m all for 12 position players.
Nice job by Corey with 2 outs.
Beuhler looking much better which is massive going forward.
Average runs per game:
1. Dodgers – 5.53
2. Rays – 5.40
3. Yankees – 5.40
4. Astros – 5.26
5. Rockies – 5.19
6. Braves – 5.19
7. Padres – 5.10
No other team is over 5.0, regardless of the number of games played.
Oh, and to top it all off, the Dodgers have given up the fewest runs.
Fact: The Dodgers score the most runs per game.
Fact: The Dodgers give up the fewest runs per game.
Fact: Eric is a blowhard!
I said part of run differential is the pitching and we have gotten pretty darn good pitching so far. Run differential doesn’t exactly tell you that the offense is the best offense in all of baseball because pitching is part of that equation.
I go by team OPS and the Dodgers are not the best. They are 7th.
You can out OPS a team and lose.
Runs trump OPS every time!
OPS is a great stat, but runs rule.
“But, we had a better OPS than the other team”
Yeah, but they scored more runs.
With Bellinger waking up the team OPS is sure to go up.
Another “decent” inning from Striker!
This from JP Hoornstra:
” Minor league pitcher Edwin Uceta is going on the restricted list after he broke the team’s COVID-19 protocol. Uceta had been training at the Dodgers’ alternate site camp at USC. The 22-year-old right-hander went 7-2 with a 3.21 ERA in 16 games (14 starts) for Double-A Tulsa last season.”
Leaving Mendoza in the rear view mirror!
Buehler today. Kersh yesterday. Now we are rolling! Who is going to fill in behind? May has shown he belongs. Urias needs to step up. Gonso (goose) has demanded he is here. Strip has to lay bear on Sunday if he wants to stay in the rotation.
Chicken Strip has 5 starts and a 5.61 ERA. He will get at least 2 more starts, but he better turn it around or he’s in danger of going to the pen.
Gonsolin has 3 starts and no ERA.
Urias has not pitched as deep in most games as is needed, but his ERA is 2.74. He has never had the opportunity to pitch every 5 days over any extended period of time. His stats are better in the pen, because that’s where he has pitched the most. as they tried to limit his innings. He’s learning. It’s a process.
Dustin May is on the clock! I listened to an interview with him today and he really interesting!
I agree about Urias. He just needs experience as a starter. Leave him there. It’s not like he has a 5.61 ERA.
I like Gonsolin because his stuff is as good as anyone on the team. There’s a reason he his ERA is what it is. Leave him in there too.
Muncy needs therapy.
I agree with Eric about valuing OPS. I was actually surprised to hear we are 7th. But then, we have had middle order guys hitting below .200. Run differential is a thing to look at and you don’t lead the league in that stat without excellent pitching. You are right Mark, ultimately it’s about scoring more runs than your opponent. The fact we’ve done that without Muncy, Joc and Bellinger is astounding.
Kolarek is a lefty specialist and the 3 batter minimum is going to end his Dodger career, Another “genius” under the radar pickup by AF!
Muncy can’t square up a 2-1 90mph center cut fastball. That’s scary!
Did I miss reading or did you miss mentioning Willie Stargell’s name in this story. Vin brought it up many times that not only was the HR Dodgers Stadiums 1st HR to clear the stadium, it was also the furthest of long balls completely clearing the stadium at 506 feet.
Willie was the first to hit a ball out of Dodger stadium during a game. And I know, I was there. He hit it over the RF pavillion off of Alan Foster. It was a massive shot. Willie also did it again, off of Andy Messersmith, and I was there when he did that too. Piazza later hit one out that cleared the back of the bullpen. So far as I know those are the only balls hit during a game which have left the yard.
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I enjoyed your article. Frank Howard was always a class act both on and off the field!
The 60’s may have been the best decade in baseball history when considering great ball players and performance. Frank put up numbers that were as good as anyone who played during those years. Those stats would have been significantly better if the Senators had a couple of more talented hitters in the lineup. There is no doubt he would have hit more than 500 home runs, a career batting average above .280, and many more runs batted in. Hall of Fame numbers!
Frank Howard was a fan favorite, one of baseball’s most respected, exciting and productive players when he played. He spent 50 years in baseball as a player, coach and manager. MLB and ESPN have dropped the ball. They should have done a historical documentary on his career and experiences a long time ago. Imagine the stories he could tell and share?
I was fortunate enough to grow up in the 1960’s and enjoy the game as it was played back then. Baseball has changed, and not for the better. History is important. Lets hope MLB and/or ESPN does the right thing before it is too late. Time is running out.
Maybe someone here can help me.
I was a Dodger fan, as were my parents, when Frank Howard played. I remember him saying that he never hit a ball as hard as he could because, he was afraid that he would hurt someone.
Does anyone else remember that? Or, know where it might be in print?