MEET BULLET JOE ROGAN

There’s a pretty good chance, unless you are an ardent student of “old-time” baseball and you are a scholarly student of the Negro Leagues, that you have never heard of Bullet Rogan. I have to confess that I knew very little of Bullet Joe Rogan until my recent article on the Negro Leagues.  Frankly, even with the information we have, there is far too little known about him.   From those that saw him play, Rogan is said to have hit like Ty Cobb.   He pitched like Walter Johnson.   He played center field like Willie Mays.  He was a two-way star who did it all.  Quite simply, he may have been one of the greatest players that ever played the game. .

In a wonderful series written for the Athletic, Joe Posnanski ranked him the 92 best player of all time.   In a conversation with Posnanski, Buck O’Neill, one of the Negro Leagues’ defining figures and MLB’s first black coach, and who played with Rogan at the end of his career, said that “Rogan threw as hard as Satchel Paige, was the best fielding pitcher in baseball history, was a world class center fielder and could handle the bat better than anyone he had ever seen.” O’Neill also added that “If you saw Ernie Banks hit in his prime, then you saw Rogan.”. 

Legendary manager Casey Stengel, a fellow Kansas Citian and one of Rogan’s greatest champions, said Bullet was “the best all-around player in the world and one of the best, if not the best, pitcher that ever pitched.”

Bob Feller, after watching a 48 year old Rogan get 3 hit against his all-star barnstorming team, said “I can’t imagine how good he must have been when he was young.”

Frank Duncan, who caught both Satchel Paige and Rogan, said,

Satchel was easier to catch. He could throw it in a quart cup. But Rogan was all over the plate—high, low, inside, outside. He’d walk five-six men, but he didn’t give up many runs. Bullet had a little more steam on the ball than Paige—and he had a better-breaking curve. The batters thought it was a fastball heading for them and they would jump back from the plate and all of a sudden, it would break sharply for a strike. I would rank him with today’s best. I have never seen a pitcher like him, and I have caught some of the best pitchers in the business.

Satchel Paige said of Rogan: 

“Yeah, I pitched against Bullet Joe. Rogan was one of the world’s greatest pitchers. I never did see him in his prime if you want me to tell you the truth. I came up from Birmingham to Kansas City. He beat me 1-0 in the 11th inning. Yeah, he was the onliest pitcher I ever knew, I ever heard of in my life, was pitching and hitting in the cleanup place. He was a chunky little guy, but he could throw hard. He could throw hard as Smoky Joe Williams — yeah. Oh yes, he was a number-one pitcher, wasn’t any maybe so.”

A former teammate, George Carr, had this to say about Rogan:  

Rogan was the greatest pitcher that ever threw a ball. He had not only an arm to pitch with but a head to think with. Rogan was a smart pitcher with a wonderful memory. Once Rogan pitched to a batter, he never forgot that batter’s weaknesses and strong points. And don’t think Rogan was nicknamed “Bullet” for nothing. That guy had a ball that was almost too fast to catch. He would really burn ’em in there. 

That’s some very high praise.   But why do we know so little about him?  

Record keeping and statistics were a hit and miss endeavor in the years that Rogan played.   Not only that, there is much mystery that surrounds even the most basic information about Rogan.   It is known that he was born in Oklahoma.   However, when he was born is not as clear.  It could have been 1889, 1893, or maybe even later.   His exact birth date has never been established.  Whenever he was born Rogan, in a very rare interview had this to say about his birth: “I was born playing baseball.”   

There is also confusion about his name.  Some records show him as Charles Wilber Rogan.   His Hall-of Fame plague is inscribed “Wilber Joe Rogan (Bullet).”  Mostly, though he was known as “Bullet Joe” or simply “Bullet.” 

Rogan’s mother died when he was 15 years old.  After his father remarried, he moved the family to Kansas City, Kansas.   Rogan attended Summer High School.  He joined the high school baseball team as a catcher but dropped out before he graduated.   He is said to have begun his baseball career as a catcher with a semi-pro team called Fred Palace’s Colts in 1908.  The next season he played with the Kansas City Giants, and was credited with 54 consecutive wins at that level of competition.   It’s not really certain when, or how, he started playing baseball before these experiences. 

In the fall of 1911, Rogan ran away to join the Army.  Apparently he lied about his age.   Rogan served in the Philippines with the 24th Infantry an all-black (Buffalo Soldier) regiment. In 1914, he was honorably discharged but reenlisted with the 25th Infantry, another Buffalo Soldier regiment.  In 1915, while stationed at Schofield Barracks in Hawaii, Rogan was recruited to play for the 25th Infantry Wreckers in Hawaii, perhaps the best African American baseball team in the country at the time.  The team included other future Negro League stars such as William “Big C” Johnson, Lemuel Hawkins, Bob Fagan, Heavy Johnson, and Dobie Moore.   By the time he joined the Wreckers, Bullet Joe was already known for his baseball skills.  A story written at that time about his debut with the Wreckers had this to say:

“The chief interest in the game was the first appearance on the local diamond of Rogan, late of the Twenty-Fourth Infantry, who arrived on the last transport. There is hardly a company commander in the Twenty-Fifth Infantry who has not made a bid for this man’s assignment to their company, without success. … He played the first three innings at third base and made a great impression. He looks like the classiest infielder the regiment has had in some time. In the fourth, he went into the (pitcher’s) box and here his success was even more pronounced. He had worlds of speed and a quick delivery following a leisurely windup that is in itself puzzling to any batter. At the bat, he had three chances and in each case met the first ball pitched on the nose but each time in the direction of some fielder.”

As Posnanski wrote: “Within a year, Rogan’s pitching was being celebrated in the Chicago Defender (Headlines included: “Rogan Strikes Out Eighteen Men,” “Rogan Wins Again,” etc. When he had to miss a game, the headline was: “Twenty-Fifth Wins Without Rogan”).

While playing for the Wreckers, Rogan’s team won the Post League Championship, the United States Army Series Championship, and the Oahu League Championship.    

During his Army stint, legend has it that Casey Stengel saw him play while on an exhibition tour in the fall of 1919.   He was so impressed that he recommended Rogan and several of his army teammates to J. L. Wilkinson, then forming the Kansas City Monarchs for the inaugural Negro National League season.  That story may or may not be true, but Rogan was definitely no secret.  When the Negro National League was founded in 1920, Rogan was one of the best known black players in the country. There were numerous efforts to get him signed. The Monarchs won the bidding war.  He certainly didn’t look the part of an exceptional baseball player, but he was definitely the epitome of the adage “big(or good) things come in small packages”.   He was only  5′ 7″ tall and weighed 160-180 pounds, depending on which record you believe

In 1920, Rogan and Dobie Moore joined the Monarchs. Rogan quickly became the premier pitcher and biggest box-office draw in the young league.   In his first season, what records there show that he went 7-7 on the mound with a 2.98 ERA.  He started 14 game and completed 13 of them.   At the plate, in 193 at bats, he hit .290. 

In 1921, he started to take things up a notch.   As a pitcher, he started 29 games, completing 24.  His record was 16-11, with an ERA of 1.79.   As a hitter, he batted .298, in 275 at bats.  

By his third season with the Monarchs, he hit .368, and his 13 home runs were good for second in the league.  He had a .648 slugging average.   On the mound, he went 15-8, with a 2.93 ERA, starting 22 games and completing 21.  

In 1923, he continued to get better.   As a hitter, he batted .370, with a .569 slugging average.  On the mound he led the league with a 17-11 record.  He also had another sub 3.00 ERA, coming in at 2.94.  This year he started 25 games and completed 21.  He also led the league with 151 strikeouts.  

In 1924 Rogan hit .386, with a .564 slugging average.  On the mound he was 18–6, completing 20 of the 25 games he started.   He also starred in the first ever Black World Series, leading the Monarchs with 13 hits and winning two games as Kansas City defeated the Eastern Colored League champion Hilldales.   That winter he led the 1924/25 Cuban League with nine victories for the champion Almendares club.

Bullet Joe may have reached his peak in 1925, leading Kansas City to its third straight league championship with a 18–2 record.   He completed 18 of the 19 games he started and had a 1.84 ERA.  At the plate he  and a .372 batting average, with a .589 slugging average.   In the playoffs against the St. Louis Stars he hit .450 and won three more games, including one shutout.   However, before the World Series rematch with Hilldale, Rogan suffered a knee injury while playing with his young son. Forced to undergo surgery, he missed the series. Without their star, the Monarchs were defeated in six games.

The following season, Rogan became the manager of the Kansas City Monarchs. In that season’s NNL playoffs against the Chicago American Giants, he pitched and lost both games of a series-deciding doubleheader to the younger Bill Foster.  He continued to be their best hitter and pitcher until 1928, when he was either 39 or 34.   In 1928, Bullet Rogan was the best hitter (.358) and arguably the best pitcher (10–2) on the Monarchs. 

Rogan continued as the Monarchs’ manager in 1929 when they won their fourth NNL championship and recorded the best record (62–17) in the history of the league.   On April 29, 1930, in Enid, Oklahoma, Rogan played for the Monarchs in baseball’s first night game. In August he was hospitalized with an undisclosed illness. He remained out of the lineup for more than a year, finally returning on September 28, 1931.

When Wilkinson did not organize a Kansas City Monarchs team for 1932, Rogan joined a white independent team in Jamestown, North Dakota, where he played until August.  He batted .315 and went 20–3 as a pitcher before returning to the reorganized Monarchs in September.  In the winter of 1933 and 1934, Rogan returned to Hawaii and the Philippines as a member of the Philadelphia Royal Giants, a black all-star team. The Royal Giants toured Japan and China as well.  In 1936, at the age of 43, Rogan appeared in the East-West All-Star Game.

Like I said earlier, the Negro League baseball stats are sketchy.  However, those stats that have been researched and collected are incredible.   Baseball-Reference credits Bullet Joe with a 119-50 record as a pitcher for the Monarchs, including 128 complete games and 15 shutouts. As a hitter, he had a .338 batting average, .515 slugging percentage and .905 OPS.   He ranks among the winningest pitchers in Negro League history, and among the top hitters.   As won wag wrote: “Move over, Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani.

Rogan retired from the Monarchs in 1938.  After retirement, Rogan worked as an umpire in the Negro American League until 1946.  In his book,  “We Are The Ship, The Story of Negro League Baseball” Kadir Nelson, describes umpiring in the Negro Leagues and tells a story about Bullet Joe:

“Umpiring wasn’t always that great.   Some of the [umpires] wouldn’t know a strike from their left foot. At one time the league had official umpires, but they couldn’t travel with the teams.  It was too expensive.  A few of the umpires were former players.  Pop Lloyd and Wilbur “Bullet” Rogan used to ump in later on in their careers.  Those guys were tough.   They had to be with guys like Oscar Charleston and Jud Wilson in the league.   At one game in Kansas City, there were three umpires, Rogan was behind the plate and the other two were at first and third.  A play took place at third base, and Rogan ran down the line.   He called the man out and the base umpire called him safe.  They started to argue and got into a fight.  Bullet Rogan pulled out a knife and the other guy panicked and took off running toward the center-field fence and climbed over it.  The next day it was in the papers.  Rogan had a bad temper.   [Players] wouldn’t argue to much with him about balls and strikes.   Whatever, he called, you would just let it go.   He was old, but he’d fight you anyway.”  

After he quit umpiring, he worked for the post office in Kansas City.   He died in 1967.  In 1998 he was inducted into Major League Baseball’s Hall of Fame.  

It so difficult to determine how good a player was that you never seen play.   It’s also difficult to gauge how good the competition was that Rogan played against.   Certainly the same good be said of Ruth, Gehrig or many others of that era.   The great black players were not allowed to play with the whites and, rarely, would the whites play against all black teams.   One thing that can be said, is regardless of who he was playing with or against, Bullet Joe Rogan was one very fine baseball player.   If Casey Stengel thought he was the best there ever was, well who am I to argue with him.  

Some additional random thoughts: 

●          Speaking of umpires not knowing a strike from their left foot, the umpires in the first two games with the Padres were as bad as I have witnessed in recent memory.  

●          Watching Paddack vs Buehler and May vs  Lamet go at it was a lot fun.   If Buehler and Paddock each had an “off” night, it will be amazing to see them duel each other when they are both on.   May and Lamet were doggone good.   Dodgers and Padres should be at for several more years to come.  

●          I had an epiphany on Monday night.   The Dodgers play much better when they win, than when they lose.   It’s remarkable that I never noticed that before.   Simple solution, they should win more often.  

●          Forgive me, but I don’t get the constant bitching about Roberts as a manager.  He makes his share of mistakes, most managers do.   Moreover, why attribute his success solely to his players, didn’t Weaver, Alston, Cox, Sparky Anderson, and Terry Francona have good players?  I always thought that Joe Maddon was a good manager.   Do you think the Angel fans are happy with how he used Ohtani in his first 2 games on the mound?   I doubt it.   Even though he screwed up, he’s still a good manager.   So is Roberts.     

Here’s a House Full of Bullets for you.

This article has 67 Comments

  1. Great piece, Rob!

    I had heard of Rogan but did not know much about him. It’s too bad he could not have played in the Bigs. He might have been as good as Ruth.

    Chicken Strip made a couple of bad pitches, but overall, I have been very pleased with him. I think about 28 other teams would love him as their #5… especially in this short season.

    I forgot that CT3 also had a cannon – what a way to end the game. Grisham is fast too!

    Across MLB, for the most part, pitching is ahead of the hitting. Team Batting Averages are unusually low.

    The Dodgers are 2nd to the Indians with a 2.42 Team ERA.

    Muncy and Bellinger will get it together but that’s why they have a “team” – one guy can pick up the rest. Last night it was Taylor and Pederson. Shouldn’t Taylor have been sitting last night? What was Doc thinking?

    1. Stripling’s line look much different if the home plate ump hadn’t decided to squeeze him on multiple pitches to Machado.

  2. Stripling has some telling career splits

    Innings 1-3 his OPS against is .652
    Innings 4-6 his OPS against is .769
    For some peculiar reason his OPS against in inning 4 is .883. Third time through order maybe?

    In inning 1 his ERA is 3.4
    In inning 2 his ERA is 2.38
    In inning 3 his ERA is 2.53

    Then it goes well over 4.

    I think it’s safe to say Stripling is a 5 inning starter. Plan for that and winning his starts is possible.

    The problem as I see it is that 5 inning starters put pressure on the bullpen. I don’t like seeing anyone in our pen throwing 2 days in a row. Treinen and Jansen both did it last night and neither were sharp, Treinen throwing 29 pitches and Jansen 20. I know there are times it’s going to happen. Keep them at a minimum by asking the pen to only pitch 3 or less a night.

    Expecting professional starters to finish 6 should not be that big of an ask.

    1. Yep. That’s why Stripling is the 5th wheel in our penciled in rotation. CK, Buehler, Urias, May, Stripling as it stands. When I look at this rotation spelled out, we are one injury away from a possible mess. Everyone else we’ve got will have little to no experience as a starter in the MLB. That could mark a break for Gonsolin who seems to thrive when their is adversity.

      If only David Price did not opt out, we would have a chance to see what our rotation could really do. It really threw a wrench into it along with Wood not performing well. Is it possible for Price to rejoin the club? Probably too late. What was his reasoning?

  3. I agree. I don’t have the stats but the relievers I see pitching back to back and or multiple innings seem to have less success. Your multi inning guys should have a couple days rest as well.

  4. Mark I think most teams would love to have Strip as their number 3. He pitched better than his results last night. More horsepower on his fastball this year. If we win a WSvthis year Driveline deserves a share! And thx 2dem for a great piece. All the incredible talent in the Negro Leagues that could have changed the history books in MLB.

  5. Agreeing with Mark, it is too bad we did not accept black players in the major leagues sooner than Jackie Robinson. What a difference players like Rogan and others would have made. Good article 2D2. Really enjoyed learning about this talented ball player.

    Exciting game last night, thanks to Stripling, Joc, Taylor and the rest of the team. Bullpen looked a little tired after a lot of work and long road trip. But, we came through it for a win thanks to some very good defensive moves. Rest today guys. Good job team.

  6. Just read a headline with Roberts saying “Lux not ready” I didn’t read the article, but will soon. Hope it explains why he’s not ready.

    1. I read it, Dave’s main point was that Lux did not arrive to the summer session ready to play. He was not making contact and it also looked like he had the yips on throws to first. He did say he is making progress at the alternate site, but that he is not going to be called up until they feel he is ready to play every day.

  7. Nice article 2D2. I am not too schooled on the negro leagues, and know the big names mainly. I am sure there were a lot of players from those teams who could have been stars in the majors. It is a sad statement that attitudes at the time kept them out of the game. Comparing players from that era to their contemporary’s when they never really got to play against each other is not easy to do. I would suffice it to say simply that he was one of the better players who played the game and let that be his legacy. He is in the hall for a reason. As for the game last night, Strip did a very good job. He made one really bad pitch to Tatis, but other than that he did great. Joc saw 2 he could drive and did not miss them. The defense was solid. First 4 in the lineup faltered again. I still think Seager should be in the 2 hole. Especially since Muncy is mired in a slump. Last night was Pollock’s worst night at the plate. And he probably should not have been hitting leadoff. It has been a while since he was in that spot. Hopefully Betts comes back this weekend against the Giants. No game tonight. Good news for me, my nerves were on edge during that 9th inning and I need a day to recuperate. Jansen looked very vulnerable last night.

  8. They have to cut to 28 today. Current roster has 16 pitchers and 14 position players. Sorry, I send down 2 pitchers. As inconsistent as the offense has been they need as many bullets as the can to load that pea shooter it has been so far. Scott Schebler DFA’d by the Braves. A couple of years ago, he hit 30 dingers in Cincy. Anyone tired of the Johnny Bench commercials for Blu Emu?

  9. Quite an exciting win last night, sort of validates the efforts to put the short season together. SD is certainly a rising power which will likely be our major competitor in the division for several years. Stripling pitched well, but as pointed out above, does not seem to be able to go much more than five innings, but maybe he can if he starts regularly. Jansen had his worst outing of the season, I guess we cannot expect him to be effective every time he comes in, but he should be able to hold onto a two-run lead in the ninth. I thought we would lose, after he gave up the walk and two long singles, and with Machado up. And he hit it hard, but fortunately right to Taylor, who made a great throw, and Smith a great catch and tag to save us. Just when I was about to write about how Taylor is a .260 hitter with little power who only plays because he, along with Hernandez, is one of Roberts’ favorites, he has made significant contributions lately.

    We can’t argue with a 7-2 road trip, though we could have won the other two. In such a short season, we need to pile up as many wins as possible, as we are no better than tied in our own division for now. The Yankees look like the best team so far, though it is obviously hard to compare schedules. I wonder how MLB is going to make up all those games which were postponed, probably they will only get just a few of them. Keep winning, at least get the ridiculous two out of three opening series at home, and hope that we jell as a team at some point, which we have not yet done. We obviously need Betts back, and Roberts to settle on his best lineup and rotations, and mostly stick to them, which he apparently does not like to do.

    1. Kike and Taylor have been clutch contributors throughout their career with the Dodgers. Both have power. Granted, neither are consistent enough to nail down a starting job so they continue to platoon, etc. This is who the Dodgers are. I don’t see it changing any time soon and I’m okay with it. Lux, I am not okay with.

      With Mookie back, the Dodgers should continue their push for domination in the West. However, I didn’t expect the competition from the Rockies or Pads to be so strong. Muncy is my only big question mark, at the moment. I like him at 1B, but he’s got to become a real RBI man and hit consistently well and not rely on his power all the time.

  10. McKinstry was to be expected if Rios didn’t go on the IL but Kolarek surprises me. I bet he’s really ticked off.
    3 innings pitched so far and he’s given up 2 hits, 0 walks, 0 runs and has a WHIP of 0.6.
    He couldn’t have done much better than that. I’m guessing that McGee’s success had something to do with their decision on Kolarek. Maybe they still haven’t convinced themselves he can get righties out.

    1. I think the 3 hitter rule had more to do with this than his performance. I do not think the Dodger braintrust feels he can get RH hitters out consistently. But I also think that was a hard thing to tell a guy for Dave Roberts. Hey, you have pitched well, but the guy we picked up just before the re-start is better. So go to USC and maybe we will see you again before we let you walk away this winter……

  11. DODGERS OPTION LHP ADAM KOLAREK & IF/OF ZACH MCKINSTRY

    LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles Dodgers have optioned left-handed pitcher Adam Kolarek and infielder/outfielder Zach McKinstry. The Dodgers roster is now at 28.

    Kolarek, 31, has made four appearances for the Dodgers in 2020, going 2-0 with a 0.00 ERA (0 ER/3.1 IP) and three strikeouts. In parts of four Major League seasons, the Maryland native is 10-3 with a 3.65 ERA (41 ER/101.0 IP) and 71 strikeouts. He was acquired by the Dodgers on July 31, 2019 from Tampa Bay in exchange for outfielder Niko Hulsizer and he is 4-0 with a 0.60 ERA (1 ER/15.0 IP) and 12 strikeouts in 30 games since joining Los Angeles. In eight minor league seasons, he is a combined 29-23 with a 3.17 ERA (176 ER/499.2 IP) and 510 strikeouts in 362 games (three starts).

    McKinstry, 25, was recalled for the first time in his career last night after being placed on the 40-man roster on November 20, 2019. The Indiana native split the 2019 season between Double-A Tulsa and Triple-A Oklahoma City, playing six different positions and hitting .300 (129-for-430) with 24 doubles, 19 homers and 78 RBI. He finished the season with Oklahoma City and hit .382 (34-for-89) with seven homers and 26 RBI in 26 games. In his five minor league seasons in the Dodgers organization, he has hit a combined .270 (331-for-1226) with 30 homers and 149 RBI across five different levels. He was originally drafted by the Dodgers in the 33rd round of the 2016 First-Year Player Draft out of Central Michigan University.

  12. Ok, I still think 15 pitchers is too many. But I am not running the team. What it does mean is that Rios is probably close to game ready. They have 3 lefty’s left in the pen, Fergie, Alexander, and McGee. And I read yesterday that Roberts expects Wood back at some point in time. Then some one else has to go. Luckily for McKinstry, he did not have to travel too far to get back to USC. Me, I sit Muncy for at least a game or two. Rios and Beaty can cover first. Ok guys, trade deadline a little over 3 weeks away. Does AF make any moves? If so, which area does he chose to address? Food for thought gentlemen and lady! What having 13 position players on the roster does mean is that Roberts basically has the same amount of bench players he normally uses. Having the DH makes it somewhat easier since Ol Davey does not have to decide whether or not to hit for the pitcher.

  13. One thing about the umpires you might want to consider. Some veteran umps opted out. So, there are more AAA umps in the rotation now than before. Last night’s ump got one thing right, he tossed the Padre skipper for arguing balls and strikes. I also stick with Smith behind the plate. He is at least hitting the ball. Rotation for Giants series is set, Urias, on Fri, Kersh on Sat, and Buehler on Sun. Then the Pads come in for a 4 game set. Colorado got beat last night. Belt hit a homer to put the Gnats ahead, and later had a double and scored.

  14. First, one more bravo on last night’s game. Great catch, great throw and great tag.

    As far as the roster is concerned, I am with you Bear on the amount of pitchers but I sincerely hope the lefties do not get overused and struggle near the end, so am ok with 3 in the pen as long as one is Fergie, lol.

    As far as the trade goes there is no one I want to see traded, especially Joc and Stripling.

    Just my unbiased ? and honest opinion.

  15. By the way, no comments/opinions on Kike’s throw that nearly killed Muncy??

    Dr. Fauci could’ve done better than that!!

    1. That must have been a moment when I dozed off, Bobby, so did not see it. Was it that hard of a throw?

      1. There was a single to right, Pederson got to the ball and threw it to Hernandez who tried to make a hurried throw home to get the runner, he somehow did not have a good grip on the ball and fired it right into Muncy’s thigh. He was lucky it did not hit him in the groin. Kike was only about 20 feet from him.

        1. Wow, thanks Bear. Poor Muncy. Not like Hernandez though to throw too many balls away.

  16. Good Road Trip – Strip doing well so far.

    Quick question – must’ve missed the info, but what’s happening with the Trade Deadline this year – is there one & if so, is it as normal?

    1. Trade deadline is August 31’st. They simply moved it back a month. It is business as usual except for the fact that this is not a usual season. I do not think AF will make any major moves, although some have suggested he will on other blogs. Some teams will be out of the running for sure, but with 8 teams in each league getting into the playoffs, there will probably be a couple that look to bolster their rosters. I doubt any of the really loaded teams will. Minnesota and the Cubs have the best records so far at 10-2. Yankees are 9-2 and look to be very powerful, but their weak point has been their rotation. Paxton especially is struggling. DC lost Scherzer for some time with a strained groin. So if anything I am thinking some of the teams who have issues will be looking for starting pitching. But then again it comes down to who do the also ran’s want to deal, and how much will he cost.

  17. August 31st this year. As far as I know, everything is the same as the normal July 31st deadline, except it’s a month later.

  18. I might as well, get my 2 cents in. The offense, for the most part, has been struggling, so they rely on pitching (especially relief pitching) to win games. Then last night when the relievers were struggling, it was Joc and the defense that came through. They just find ways to win. This is a special team. They can lose Mookie Betts, who was just getting hot, and they can still beat a very good SD team 2 games out of 3 to win the series in SD’s yard (if that means anything this year). Make no mistake, SD will be in the playoffs this year, and probably with uber-pitching prospect MacKenzie Gore. Because of the shortened season, they are one year ahead of contention.

    I agree with Mark that Strip made a mistake with Tatis. But Tatis is going to be soooo good that he is going hit a lot of pitchers’ mistakes. IMO Strip’s mistake was to get Jurickson Profar 0-2 and then walk him directly in front of the HR. He gets Profar, Strip gets through 6. Why mess with Profar? He will get himself out. Strip has gone 7.0, 5.1, and 5.2 IP for his three starts. He looks to tire right around 90 pitches which should get him through 6.0 IP. Like it or not, that is all that is expected of a starting pitcher today. Today’s brainiacs are telling pitchers to go as hard as they can for as long as they can. Pitching deep into a game is going on the heap with the sacrifice bunt, stolen base, and hitting behind the runner. We do not have to like it, but we do have to acknowledge it.

    I do recognize that Treinen and Jansen pitched in back to back games, and without me actually researching it, I believe that was the first time this year for both pitchers. I have no issue with it, as they both need to get better at pitching in back to back games as they will be needed to do so in the playoffs. It was not pretty, but it was ultimately successful.

    Maybe it is time to sit Max for a game (or two) and let Rios/Beaty take over 1B. With Rios, I do not think the Dodgers would be losing that much power potential. At the very least, Max should be moved way down in the order. Max is slashing .176/.333/.392/.726. I would much prefer to see Seager batting behind Mookie as we move forward. Muncy far and away has more Ks (16) than any other Dodger. He has twice as many as Belli. Belli is at least making contact. It should only be a matter of time before he gets his timing back.

    Is Father Time starting to catch up to JT? He does turn 36 in November.

    I suspected Kolarek and McKinstry would be the two who would be optioned back to USC. That makes the most sense. With Alexander, McGee, and Ferguson, the team has plenty of LHRP. McKinstry will undoubtedly make every taxi squad on the road trips, and if needed while at home, USC is very close. Keep him at USC where he hits every day. Call him up when he will be able to play.

    1. I like Kolarek more than Alexander, but he did surprise me in that extra-inning game at Houston. Maybe he will be better this year, but i thought he was close to awful when he pitched her before his injury. Ferguson is going to be very good. McGee doing better than i expected, at least so far. I still would rather have Kolarek in there with two out and key runs on base, even if he has to face two right-hand hitters the next inning, than Alexander, but we’ll see. We have a lot of talented and useful players, and Roberts has to pick the right ones, with some help from Friedman, of course. I still have consistent doubts about his ability to choose the right person for the right situation, which admittedly is always open to debate for any manager except a legend.

      1. I do not pretend to be any kind of a scout to be able to tell one middling reliever from another. For whatever reason, LAD management likes Scott Alexander, and have since they traded for him. They tout him as a “ground ball” pitcher who can come in and get a DP. I would suspect and agree with you that Scott was chosen over Kolarek because of the three batter rule. I think they trust Alexander against RH batters more than they do Kolarek. Who knows, by playoff time, it may shift.

        Alexander:
        Vs. RHB -.252/.336/.360/.696
        Vs. LHB – .248/.314/.325/.639

        Kolarek
        Vs. RHB – .297/.364/.472/.836
        Vs. LHB – .194/.238/.274/.512

        If it were one LHB (say Juan Soto), Kolarek would probably have been the choice.

        1. McGee seems to be a better pitcher than Kolarek, overall. More stuff, more durability. Maybe I’m wrong, but I like the chance that Doc is giving him to prove he belongs. After all, Kolarek was brought in before the 3 batter rule changed. He would have to adapt and round out his game to pitch to anyone. He can do that somewhere else, not when each game matters. I don’t dislike him, but I think McGee has proven his worth already. We’ll see.

  19. Nice article 2d2. I love the Negro League’s history and the interesting cast of quality players. As I’ve said before, I want to go back to those days with Sherman and Peabody, in the Way-Back Machine, and watch some games.
    Some thoughts on last night:
    * I’m with Bear and others who have suggested Muncy get some days off to reboot. 1 through 4 last night were 0 for 16.
    * When Betts gets back, just put him at leadoff and leave him alone.
    * Some very quality at bats last night. Joc showed nice patience and situational hitting with his homer in the 2nd. He obviously needed something to lift, to drive in the runner from 3rd. He spit on a couple of low pitches to get to 2 and 2, where he got that hanger up and got his fly ball, And it went out. And Will Smith going to right to score Joc in the 5th. Great run: a walk, passed ball and base hit. I love it.
    * I have come to dislike the Padres swag and hot-dog antics (IMO). It starts with Machado who takes 5 minutes with his walk-up-music to stroll to home like it’s a coronation. Tatis Jr. gave an Academy Award performance from contact to dugout celebration on his homer in the 5th. Orel said he’s been compared to a young A-Rod. I think it’s more like a young A-Hole. I would give anything to see how Drysdale or Gibson would have handled this show-boat behavior. I’m all for having fun but is showing up the opponent. Yes, I am proudly old school on this stuff.
    * As much as I’m trying, I still don’t trust KJ. He always has to make it interesting, usually with a walk. I can’t remember his last clean inning.
    * There’s been lots of discussion about beating the shifts employed by every team. The Padres were extreme with Machado playing “rover”. Some folks (like me) think a bunt is in order at the proper time, others suggest learning to hit to all fields better, while many suggest no changes as it will mess up a player’s grooved swing. Just bang away into the shift and hope for the best with an occasional homer.
    Ted Williams was a notorious pull hitter. A great hitter but a dead pull guy. Many remember the Boudreau shift, that Lou Boudreau, the player manager for the Indians devised to defend Williams. That shift looked like today’s over shifts. Williams struggled with this until 1957.
    In the 1957 season, however, Williams almost by accident figured out a way to beat the shift. He started experimenting with a heavier bat, 34 ½ ounces compared to his normal 32 ½ ounce model, and the extra weight caused him to be a little late on pitches. He started hitting rockets to left and center field, places that he rarely hit to before, and as a result, he was able to neutralize the shift and got off to the best start of his career.
    Teddy Ballgame simply went to a heavier bat without revamping his swing.

    1. The MLB seems rooted in very conservative viewpoints. Heck, we can’t even get the electronic strike zone installed even though it is a no brainer when it comes to accuracy. The DH took its sweet time, don’t you think?

      I am all for the young guys showing their swag, getting jiggy with it, and emoting and celebrating their triumphs. Next to Football and Basketball, you’d think most of the Baseball players were old men! It’s nonsense. It’s learned behavior patterns that dominate baseball. I love to see managers and coaches lose their mind in joy when their players do something great. Aren’t they fans, also?

      Padres are a refreshing team, but they do need to learn defense. We tolerated Puig’s antics, licking his bat. People enjoyed him and his emotion that he brought. There is nothing wrong with it. No need to be serious all the time.

  20. Very good points, phil. I also think Muncy needs a rest and wonder if he is injured. He started off great, hitting two homers in the SF series if my memory serves me right. But, didn’t he get hit twice by the giant pitchers? I can not remember where he got hit but thought it was the arm or hand. Just me wondering out loud.

    I also do not like the “show-boat” behavior of some of the Padres, not all of them. But, I guess that is how it is these days.

  21. Yes he did Phil, and he hit .388 at age 38 to win his 5th AL batting title. He would win his last the next season at age 39 with a .328 average. Drysdale would have hit that kid right in the ribs the very next at bat. Has any one noticed that all of Pederson’s homers have gone to left center field? He has not pulled one yet. I am with you on KJ. One thing I have said to myself every time he has pitched this year is why can’t he have a clean inning. He did have one on Tuesday and only made 11 pitches. Profar hit a loud foul off of him on a real mistake that could have killed the team. Why fool around with a guy hitting under the Barnes line? Muncy does not look hurt. Muncy looks confused. He is missing pitches he normally has crushed. Max is not going to be a high average guy, but he is not connecting at all. The Padres are a bunch of kids. Hosmer is one of very few vets on that team. I think they do not have a veteran clubhouse leader, and their manager is also a rookie. I doubt someone like Bud Black would allow that kind of behavior. Machado’s BA close to the Mendoza line…ain’t that sweet>>>>??????

  22. I know many of you are not getting any normal entertainment where you might live. Our theater in our little town has 3 screens. Limited seating so far. But like everywhere, no new releases are being shown. They are open on Friday thru Tuesday. This week we get Ghost, a favorite of mine, Caddyshack, The Outlaw Josey Wales, great performance by Chief Dan George, and Christine, one of King’s creepier novels. 1 dollar hot dogs. Admission for us old farts is only 7 bucks.

    1. You all wearing masks?

      “One thing I have said to myself every time he has pitched this year is why can’t he have a clean inning. He did have one on Tuesday and only made 11 pitches. “

      What did I just say about that? I don’t want any of our relievers pitching in back to back games and THAT is the reason why. Treinen also pitched on Tuesday and what did he do? 3 Ks on 21 pitches. Wednesday? 2 walks, 1 K, 29 pitches. These guys are older. Do them and the team a favor. Don’t pitch them in back to back games unless it’s an emergency. You got plenty of arms down there, use them efficiently.

        1. Oh my gosh. Hasn’t society finally moved past this mask silliness?!??!? How in the world is this an issue, here of all places. Aren’t we all educated people?

          What kind of inane posting is that?

          The perfect is the opposite of the good.

          Masks are good, but not perfect.

          Wear the fucking mask.

  23. On the Trade Deadline:

    I would say that the Dodgers do not need to do anything… but it also depends upon who is available and what the price might be.

    If some teams fall out of contention, the following RENTALS could (or could not) be available:

    George Springer
    Trevor Bauer
    Marcus Stroman
    Mike Minor
    Michael Bratley

    You never know… but I would say NO!

  24. There are 2 guys on the team that I would trade in a heartbeat because Doc seems to love using both of them and in my opinion they are just taking up roster spots and they are Hernandez and Kelly.

    The 2nd gripe I have is Doc’s overuse of Barnes. Smith should be starting around 80% of games if not more.

    Other than that I am happy with this team. The offense will come around and be consistent sooner or later, Doc just needs to lay off of Hernandez and Barnes.

    1. Hernandez is a defensive wiz and a fizz with the bat. At least so far. One good game with the stick and the rest mediocre. Other than being abnormally wild so far, Kelly has not allowed a run in 5 games despite walking 5 and only striking out 3. He has been shall we say, effectively wild. Graterol who has not walked a batter yet and has filthy stuff is 0-2. Doc has repeatedly said he is going to use Barnes and Smith alternately. Originally he said it would be 60-40 Smith over Barnes. Unfortunately, neither has hit well, but at least Smith is making contact. For a guy with so few at bats, Barnes has struck out almost half the time. Smith on the other hand has only 3 K’s in 22 trips to the dish. I disagree that Kike and Kelly are just taking up roster spots. Kike has a higher BA than Muncy, Bellinger, Rios, Pederson, Smith, Turner, Taylor, Beaty and Barnes. With 6 ribbies, he is only 2 behind the team leader Turner. Kike is in there mostly for his defense, which despite the missile into Muncy’s groin last night, has been pretty spectacular. I doubt either gets moved anywhere anytime soon. Kike is a free agent, and Kelly has 1 yr left in which he will only be making 4 million. He is a bargain.

      1. Kike’ and CT3 are both valuable parts of the Dodger machine. Just like last night with Taylor they both come up BIG sometimes and win games. Roberts knows this and values them both highly.

      2. It seems like you don’t look at CAREER stats. Hernandez has terrible career stats. Hernandez and Taylor are a lot alike but Taylor has better career stats. No need for Hernandez on this team. Defense is not a priority to me and it shouldn’t be to Doc either. But unfortunately it is. Take a look at Kelly’s career stats too while you’re at it.

        By using stats so far this season you are using small samples it’s better to look at large samples.

        If both are bargains as you put it they should be easy to trade.

        1. 1. We know that defense is not a priority to you.

          2. We also know that there is no dumbass vaccine.

          3. Anything you look at right now is a small sampling.

          4. Kike is near superstar status against LHP in OPS.

          5. Do you live on planet earth or Uranus?

          Full disclosure: I do not suffer fools very well. I am sorry!

        2. Yes Eric, I know all about Kike’s career stats. Other than his 2015 season, he has never hit for a very high average. Unfortunately for you, it is not I who you have to convince that he is not that great. It is the front office who love what he brings to the team. Yes, he is pretty much interchangeable with Taylor. but he has shown more power. And you are mistaken about Taylor having better career numbers. Kike actually has a higher career BA by about 6 points, More HR’s, more RBI’s. The only stat Taylor is better in is OBP, and not by much. And you might not think defense is a priority, but the powers that be think it is very important. You are also wrong about Kelly’s career stats. He is 19 games above .500 as far as wins go. For a pitcher who spent half of his career in the AL, his ERA is below 4 which is pretty good considering. His K to BB ratio is 2to 1. His whip is 1.388 which is not that bad. And he gives up about 1 homer every nine innings. Considering he is a reliever, that is excellent. He is what he is, and was signed to be. A very good set up man. Just because he has had a couple of rough stretches while a Dodger does not mean he is not a good pitcher when he is right. Which is usually the case. He at times is virtually unhittable. Trading either would not be that hard. But it comes down to do the Dodgers want to trade them. And the answer to that is most likely no. Oh by the way, he was signed on the strength of what he did to the Dodger bats in the 2018 series which was totally shut them down in all 5 games and strike out 10 hitters in in 6 innings. Case closed..You Lose.,

          1. You should check those stats because you’re wrong about them. Taylor’s career batting average is .021 higher than Hernandez and Taylor’s OPS is .032 higher than Hernandez.

            For the record I don’t look at wins and losses and ERA for pitchers because other factors in the game have an effect on those stats.

            A 1.39 WHIP is pretty bad.

          2. How am I supposed to take you seriously when you get your stats wrong. It’s pretty simple to look at stats and read stats.

          3. I got that part wrong, I admit.. But he has more homers and RBI’s. I meant OBP not OPS which Taylor clearly has a big lead. Kike’s is ,315, Taylor’s .332. But I again stress it makes no difference to the powers who put together the team. And when Kelly started his career, he was a starter, and wins meant something. He was a starter until 2016. And again, he was signed because of what he did to the Dodgers in the 2018 Series. You not caring for the guy makes no difference. You are to quote an old saying, pissing in the wind. And just because YOU put no value in wins does not mean no one else does. Like you said, YOU think they should be gone. When AF or Roberts agrees with you, maybe they will be. So far they value both of them a lot more than you do. Is Kelly the best reliever for the money? Maybe not, but AF thinks so and his opinion counts one hell of a lot more than yours. I got Kike’s BA wrong because i was looking at this years line. Like you never read anything wrong??

  25. Rockies beat the Giants again and sit at 9-3, 1/2 game ahead of the Dodgers. Matt Kemp has 2 homers and 8 ribbies in limited at bats as the Rockie DH. Only Turner, with 8 has as many RBI’s as Kemp on the Dodgers.

  26. I do not think this is political, but I think it is something we need to consider, as to why there are so many deaths from COVID-19 in the US:

    1. 100% accurate. Most of America is vastly overweight. We eat Horrible food. We don’t exercise. We take 80% of the world’s pharmaceutical drugs. We drink tons of soda. You think our bodies are strong enough to fight diseases ??

  27. By the way Eric. I do not give a rats hind end whether you take me seriously or not. I know what I think does not matter to Dodger management, you seem to think your opinion matters to them. Sorry, they don’t care.

    1. I thought you were trying to slip some false numbers past me on purpose. But you said it was a mistake so it’s all good. You’re right they don’t care about anybody’s opinions.

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