In 1988, the Dodgers won the World Series with a rag-tag bunch of bench players, junkyard dogs, and stuntmen, including Mickey Hatcher, Rick Dempsey, Mike Davis, Danny Heep, and Dave Anderson. The bench was important to the last world championship and I believe that this year’s bench is immensely better.
Hey, these guys aren’t starters, but many of them would be starters on other teams. Due to arbitration and the like, this could be the last season these guys are together. They are “all in” wanting to get a World Championship. They know their roles and I am assuming that this will be the starting eight:
- C – Will Smith
- 1B – Max Muncy
- 2B – Gavin Lux
- SS – Corey Seager
- 3B – Justin Turner
- LF – Joc Pederson
- CF – Cody Bellinger
- RF – Alex Verdugo
Those are the likely starters, so let’s look at the Dodgers bench options:
- Austin Barnes (C) – AB is an elite defensive catcher and very highly ranked in pitch framing. His hitting has been atrocious the past two years – maybe he has had difficulty in adjusting to playing so little. He does have a potential offensive upside but will need to display it. In 2017, he hit .289 with a .408 OB%. I think he is a better hitter than he has shown the past two years, but he has to do it. He can also play 2B and 3B in a pinch. He qualifies as a “stuntman.” He’s also a great teammate… and that means a lot. Currently, he is being pushed by Keibert Ruiz.
- Kike Hernandez (IF, OF) – Enrique plays every position (including C and P). He is both hated and loved as a Dodger backup. He is a plus defender at just about any position and has a rocket arm. He is adored by his teammates and frustrating to the average fan. At age 28, I think we will see a better version of Kike… or he will regress to the mean. He has hit 21 and 17 HR the past two seasons and hits lefties much better than righties. This guy is an awesome backup. I had higher hopes for him, but he has not delivered. He does have a flair for the dramatic and that is something!
- Chris Taylor – (2B, SS, LF, CF, RF) – CT3 is a good defender at SS and in the outfield. He is a career .262 batter with a .331 OB%, which is pretty much what you can expect. His career .772 OPS is great for such a role player. CT3 is a guy you want to go to war with.
- AJ Pollock (LF, CF) – AJ is 32 and on the downhill slide of his career, he is essentially the Dodger’s 4th outfielder, although he will platoon with Joc Pederson in LF. If healthy, he’s capable of putting up some good numbers and while he can play CF in a pinch, he’s no longer an everyday CF. Until I see otherwise, AJ is a blunder by the Dodgers’ Front Office. $18 Million doesn’t buy what it used to. I hope he makes me eat big-time crow.
- Matt Beaty (3B, 1B, LF) – Matt is the only LH hitter of the bunch, but it’s a strongly LH lineup with Muncy, Lux, Seager, Pederson, Bellinger, and Verdugo being lefty hitters. I expect to see Matt log a lot of time at 3B in the Spring. Matt is a professional hitter… he’s our Dave Hansen.
It’s likely that the Dodgers will just carry 5 stuntmen, but it is possible that they will carry another LH bat and just 12 pitchers. That bat could be Edwin Rios or Zach McKinstry and I have left off Tyler White who could be a reclamation project like Turner, Taylor, and Muncy but the fact that he is RH goes against him… or not! Maybe since he’s RH, he is a lock to make the team… what do I know?
I also think that these stuntmen (at least some of them) will benefit from another year under Robert Van Scoyoc. That same basic lineup (minus Freese, plus Lux) is intact and they led the NL in Runs and Home Runs in 2019. It would not surprise me if they are even better in 2020. As much as some hate analytics, they are scientifically proven and sustainable. Incremental growth is part of the science.
Here’s the thing: You never know who gets hot in Spring Training or who gets injured. That’s why depth is so important. The Dodgers are in the catbird seat, but so many fans see it differently. If you want to revel in negativity and swill, let me know and I will send you to a website where you will right at home” “Friedman is an idiot and should be fired!” “The Dodgers won’t spend because they don’t want to win.” “We are doomed.” “The sky is falling.” If you eat that stuff up, I have a prepaid one-way ticket for you. It’s easy to get there. Just take
Discussion (81)
Disagree, not disagreeable
That’s all for tonight folks!
Tomorrow there will be a big announcement.
See.. I don’t suffer fools very long… so something has to change… and it ain’t me.
See you tomorrow with the news.
Betts or Lindor? Since these are both superstar players who I haven’t had the chance to watch on an everyday basis, at this time I have no preference. Since the Dodgers have scouted both players extensively, I will leave my trust in the hands of the professionals. As much as I like Verdugo, and as much as I would like to hold onto Ruiz, I don’t think this is a deal that the Dodgers could easily pass up.
And as for the Dodgers ability to sign any player long term, I trust that AF has a strong grip on that issue. Also, a large part of any deal involves the Dodgers’ confidence that their deep farm system can absorb the loss of talent that they have to surrender.
But let’s see if any of this stuff actually reaches fruition. For example, it seems that I was reading recently that Betts was unlikely to be dealt anywhere, and now all of a sudden a deal could be imminent. Frankly I don’t know what to believe.
And although it adds to the debt structure, it also appears to me that the $100 million being spent this off-season on renovations is aimed at generating significant long term revenues that will enable the Dodgers to commit to long term player costs.
A proposal
Betts to Dodgers
Price to Angels
Boston gives Angels $10M
Dodgers gives Angels $10M
Ruiz, Grove, Verdugo to Boston
The Athletic’s Sickels has 5 prospects from the Dodgers in his Top 100.
4) Gavin Lux
14) Dustin May
31) Keibert Ruiz
84) Josiah Gray
95) Jeter Downs
Cleveland is less likely to deal lindor with 2 years left. They still think they can win. The Cleveland possibility of a deal would cost much more in personnel.
I actually like the possibility in dealing with Boston. Betts gives us exactly what we need a great player on defense and offense with speed and right handed who is playing for a contract. Price may not have anything left but he might give us some innings and who knows maybe more if he can stay healthy. I think we need a starting pitcher who can keep the innings down for the others. No way AF is going to pay his whole salary without some fairness in the deal. But, if we overpay somewhat with money I would rather that than players
I love it when folks just move existing players around like they are chess pieces. Oh, we’ll just move Seager to third. Does anyone know if Seager wants to move to 3rd? It takes tremendous ability and pride to be a professional shortstop. Starting as a kid the best player is at short. Many move for various reasons to other positions as they move through pro ball but mostly because they can’t cut it at short. Mickey Mantle was an error machine before moving to center. Many move because they don’t have the arm strength or the feet for the Show. But Seager is a bonafide big league shortstop and am sure he takes great pride in that fact. Maybe he would consider a move to help the team for a Frankie Lindor. But maybe not. It seems to me like its Seager’s job. If he wants to continue there then he should be given the opportunity to play there or be traded to another team if the Dodgers think they can improve at shortstop. Pride in your skills at the most difficult position on the field means a lot and is not easily given up.
You have to trust AF as a judge of talent and if he says Lux is untouchable then he is. But I like the Cleveland deal better. Can’t see AF giving Price 100 mil on the downside of his career. I think it’s a ploy to get Cleveland to be more reasonable
59, I know we’d have to give up a lot more to Cleveland but there is no comparison between Price and Clevenger in salary and stuff! The Cleveland deal makes us the best team in baseball but long term it would be tough to give up both Lux and May and others!
If you were the Indians GM, do you send a back door message to AF letting him know that you would accept that same package for Lindor and Clevinger if the Dodgers would add Jeter Downs, and Tony Gonsolin?
This would be my team in a few years:
LF Verdugo
SS Lindor
CF Bellinger
1B Hoese
3B Seager
RF Peters
2B Lux
C Smith
SP:
1 Buehler
2 Snell
3 Urias
4 May
5 Gray
LET THE KIDS PLAY
That would be an interesting deal, Mark, and yes, you would have to do it. The Dodgers have lots of depth at catcher. Jon Morosi is suggesting that multiple players could be going back to the Dodgers. Does that mean more than Betts and Price? Wondering if the deal might expand like the Punto Trade. Who else would the Red Sox want to dump for salary relief? If LA is trading for Betts then no one and that includes the Red Sox should outbid the Dodgers when he becomes a free agent.
I agree with Mark about who should make up the Dodgers offense. The starters he mentioned and his initial bench of Barnes, Hernandez, Taylor, Beaty, and then Pollock who should platoon with Joc. I also believe that this offense will be better than last year if Doc doesn’t screw it up. Again barring Doc’s decision making I see upside at 5 positions.
Catcher: Having Smith for a full year and the possibility of Ruiz knocking Barnes off the roster sometime during the season.
2B: Having Lux for a full season instead of all the combinations the Dodgers had last season that included too much of Hernandez and Taylor.
SS: Hopefully Seager starts to hit lefties like he did when he first arrived before his injuries.
OF: Having a full season of Verdugo, not only because of Verdugo’s production, but also to keep Pollock from being anything more than Joc’s platoon partner.
OF: If Doc goes with a strict platoon of Joc and Pollock, I believe this platoon will put up better numbers than most if not all 1 man outfielders in MLB.
Also watch out for a possible DJ Peters arrival that could knock either Hernandez or Taylor off the roster, most likely Hernandez. But Friedman and Doc might wait for a September call up.
I’m not worried about our offense at all except we have Doc calling the shots, so who knows.
I’m concerned about our pitching, especially our bullpen and especially because again we have doc calling the shots. The closest we can get to a Doc proof bullpen the better off the team will be.
Mark, what chance do you give AF signing Betts long term or is he just a one year rental if this deal went through
1. Lux 2B
2. Betts RF
3. Bellinger CF
4. Muncy 1B
5. Turner 3B
6. Seager SS
7. Pederson/Pollock LF
8. Smith C
Dang, I would hate to lose Ruiz…
The Mookie Betts rumors are heating up.
I have heard from undisclosed sources that the deal is Betts and Price for Verdugo, Ruiz, and Grove, with the Dodgers assuming all of Prices contract. I cannot vouch for the veracity of the rumor, but I might do that!
I am a lifelong dodger fan and no matter how frustrated I am still a dodger fan. I am so happy that we are annual division champs. I am also thankful that the Dodgers have been in 2 World Series recently. We have a fantastic team, a quality farm system, and a bright future. I think AF has put our team in position to be competitive for years to come. But, as to how AF stacks up with other gms I don’t think he can be one of the greats without a World Series victory. I also do not think kershaw can be considered in the same company as koufax without a World Series ring. I realize that this is my personal opinion and you can throw all the stats out there to counter but it is an opinion.
I could go on about the dead money, the terrible signings, on and on about the bullpen etc but will not. I am glad we have AF but to be an all time great he has to have a World Series title on his resume. I won’t have a vote on his legacy but when that time comes maybe he will have a couple of LA Dodger World Series titles. In that case my opinion would most likely change.
James Moya,
I am getting e-mails from other commenters and while we do value discourse and dissenting commentary on this blog, you are becoming a troll. You accuse me of saying that everything AF does is great, right after I write this:
“Until I see otherwise, AJ is a blunder by the Dodgers’ Front Office. $18 Million doesn’t buy what it used to. I hope he makes me eat big-time crow.”
Then you say: “Just remember that a good portion of the roster that gets the club to the playoffs every year (Bellinger, Seager, Kershaw, Jansen, Baez, Stripling, Turner, Ryu, Pederson, Verdugo) were all signed drafted or acquired under Ned Colleti and Logan White.
Of course, and Friedman didn’t trade them away.
Dude, I don’t know where you are coming from with a lot of your takes, but I know where you are going if this trollish behavior keeps up. Have a take and do not suck. Right about now, you do!
New Years resolution for everyone on this site. No name calling!
I’m trying, Ringo. I’m trying real hard…
Thanks so much AC, for the explanation. It is clearer to me now. I did not realize it was on a year basis and not just the number of call ups. So much to learn, so little time to learn it. Wonder why they do not put Sadler on the 40-man, replacing Chargois.
There has been some talk about what player has options and what player does not have options. I have always felt that a player with no options does not deserve to make the final roster when a player with more options than he has, but is a better player, does not.
Is the number of options transferred from an old team to a new one? Maybe they should look into the options system. If a pitcher gets called up in an emergency to pitch from the minors, maybe he should not be charged with an option, if he is. There are some players with a lot of options after being called up often. Why are they not on the roster permanently instead of being send back down? Hard to understand this system for me, but I think everyone should have a chance.
Don Larsen has died at the age of 90. His only claim to fame was his perfect game in the 1956 World Series. I saw that game on TV and saw the called 3rd strike on Dale Mitchell. I remember yelling at the TV saying it was a ball not a strike as it looked outside.
Mitchell hardly ever struck out (112K’s in 3984AB’s). Even though I thought it was a ball it was too close to take w/ 2 strikes. IDK but perhaps the umpire helped a bit so he could be part of history also.
James, there are 29 other teams , how about you go find one to like. Or do whatever it is that yanks your chain.
I believe AJ Pollock’s contract averages $13 million over five years when you include the player option for the fifth. Otherwise it would be $13.75 over four years, which is actually pretty good in terms of today’s contract numbers. I’m also not sure I would toss players at 32 into the decline bucket.
Maybe the Dodgers are still pursuing Donaldson or maybe they’re not. Looking at it from the point of the Dodgers, based on what they’ve actually said, expressed concern about and Justin Turner at third, it would seem somewhat illogical for them to chase a 34 year old third baseman to replace one who is 35.
It has been referenced numerous times by Stan Kasten and Andrew Friedman that one of the main goals of the team is to not end up, like the Philadelphia Phillies did, with an expensive, aging roster. It would seem that’s what Donaldson would bring if, indeed, he has four year contracts already on the table. Now, maybe they think he will age better than some. Still, it would seem more likely they would want a younger player like Kris Bryant with a couple of years left on the contract.
The Rockies trading Nolan Arenado makes absolutely no sense. He’s the face of the franchise, unless, of course he suddenly wants out of Denver. Even if that’s the case, I can’t imagine a scenario they trade him to their arch rivals, the Dodgers. Then again, if the Dodgers are ready to include Gavin Lux, Keibert Ruiz, Tony Gonsolin and Dustin May in the deal, making it a win for the Rockies, they might consider it. How many of you believe Friedman would make that deal? Yah, not happening.
So, the Dodgers made $95/96 million in profit last year, the most in baseball, and that figures to increase with numerous revenue opportunities, including streaming, in the future. I’m guessing they can pretty much spend whatever they want on payroll and not miss a beat. If they could offer $300 million to Gerrit Cole, then money isn’t all that big of a concern. But don’t expect see them toss it around just to make something happen. It has to be for a difference maker, an elite player.
Mark Walter has said several times that they have no intention of selling the team. Why would they? It’s a cash generating machine and the value will continue to increase. It’s already increased over a $1.3 billion from the time they bought it.
Talent wise that 1988 team had the CY winner and MVP, but overall was not a very talented team. Their rotation was Orel Hershiser and the Question Marks. Tim Leary was not a good pitcher before 1988 or after. After pitching to a 3-11 record and 4.76 ERA in 1987, Leary posted a 17-11 record and 2.91 ERA in 1988. For his career, Leary was 78-105 and a 4.36 ERA. But he did have that 1988 season.
Their #3 starter was a rookie; Tim Belcher at 26. Belcher went 12-6 also with a 2.91 ERA. After Belcher it gets very sketchy. A quickly aging (arm wise) Fernando was done by August and was not good up to that point. The #5 was a 43 year old Don Sutton who was done at the end of June. Sutton did come back for one last start on August 9 for his last ML appearance.
The Dodgers had to rely on a very unheralded Shawn Hillegas (23) who was called up in June, and later traded (August) to ChiSox for the great Ricky Horton. They also brought up 20 year old Ramon Martinez who got in 6 starts in August and September.
The Dodgers were so desperate for pitching that they traded their best hitter outside of Gibson, Pete Guerrero, for lefty John Tudor. Just like Gibson was hurt for the WS, the pitcher they were hoping would be a big game pitcher for them went down in WS Game 2 with a severe elbow injury and was done after 1.1 IP.
Their regular lineup was:
C – Mike Scioscia – .257
1B – Franklin Stubbs – .223
2B – Steve Sax – .277
SS – Alfredo Griffin – .199
3B – Jeff Hamilton – .236
LF – Kirk Gibson – .290
CF – John Shelby – .263
RF – Mike Marshall – .277
They had three hitters with 10 or more HRs – Gibson (25), Marshall (20), and Shelby (10), and the same three were the only hitters with 60+ RBIs – Marshall (82), Gibson (20), and Shelby (64).
But somehow, some way this team beat the much better NYM team to get to the WS and then beat the much much better Oakland A’s to become WS champs.
I will absolutely admit that the roster structure in 1988 is not a good recipe to follow, but the point is that a team can somehow pull it together to win in a short series. There are way too many out there who have already opined that 2020 Dodger roster is not good enough to win the NL much less WS. That opinion was made right after the Dodgers did not sign Gerrit Cole, a player they made a $300MM offer to with a better AAV than the offer he accepted, because Cole always wanted to be a NYY. The Dodgers made the best offer and once NYY went to $324MM and gave him the 9th year, Cole told Boras he was signing with NYY. Should they have offered $400MM from the start? It is a straw man only because we will never know. But it is also a question that those anti-AF refuse to answer. I still do not think it would have mattered. NYY would still have got a chance to beat it and they probably would have. Regardless, Cole was going to sign with NYY with whatever their best offer was.
The last time I checked runs were very important to winning a baseball game, and the Dodgers led the NL in runs scored in 2019, and figure to be even more prolific this year with a healthier Verdugo, Pollock, JT, and Seager. They will get a full year out of Will Smith. Maybe Bellinger becomes more consistent throughout the year. We will get a chance to see if Lux is the real thing and if he is, the team will be even more prolific with him in the lineup. It could be a very exciting offense.
I agree that starting two very unproven and mostly untested young pitchers does not loom well, but that is only on paper. Julio Urias was at one time the best LHP prospect in MLB and at 23 seems about ready to showcase what he does have. Dustin May is one of the best pitching prospects today in MLB and will get his chance to show what he has. I really do not care if Urias and May only pitch 150 innings or 140 innings. The Dodgers depth is second to no team. I still believe Strip will get the chance to start in lieu of May, but AF and Doc may believe that it is best for the team for May to be #5 and Strip to start in the pen.
The Dodgers could have traded for Lindor and/or Betts if they want to trade Gavin Lux or Dustin May. The Dodgers are not trading Lux or May for a one or two year fix. And understanding that AF values starting pitching at any level, probably has Gonsolin and Gray only available for the best of the best. I still think AF will get some additional players, but it is going to be for a price he dictates as he did for Machado and Darvish. It may happen before ST but it may be at the trade deadline. But he will do something.
Dodgerrick, no I do not believe that on paper the starting pitching is better without Ryu going into the season. But I fully expect Walker Buehler to improve over last year and I do think that Urias and either Strip or May will be better in total than Ryu and Hill. Hill appeared in 13 games and pitched 58.2 innings.
So while some of you have given up on this year’s Dodgers team because they could not sign Gerrit Cole, I am going to enjoy watching this team grow and mature as a team and get ready for the Downtown LA parade in November. Yes I realize that many of you consider me naive (and are undoubtedly correct), but I refuse to quit on a team before they have even started ST.
Beatty could well be the pinch hitter that Hansen was but I don’t think the Dodgers have a Manny Mota yet to pinch hit from the right side. Hernandez, Taylor, and Pollock whiff too much to be good pinch hitters.
Hernandez’ best defensive positions are SS, 2B, RF, and LF and Taylor’s best are SS, CF, LF. I don’t think they do well at 3B. I hope Beatty can develop into a good defensive third baseman but a righty bat backup there would be better.
Moya,
1) it should be “there” not “their” at the fanfest.
2) AF may not be perfect, but over the past 8 years, he’s been a helluva lot better GM than anyone one else in baseball.
3) FYI, I would suggest not getting into a battle of wits with MT. Your chance of success is somewhere between nil and none so quit making yourself look like an idiot on the most knowledgeable Dodger site on the internet.
JP Morosi is saying the odds are now at about 50/50 that Arenado will be traded. I assume he means before the start of the season. Says Dodgers have shown interest but aren’t the front runners.
He has a full no trade so that might eliminate some teams and everyone knows the Rox would not be anxious to trade him in division so that makes it less likely he comes here.
OK, I’m opening the bidding – what would you give up to get Arenado, and let’s assume the Rockies give a team a window to negotiate with Arenado in order to remove the opt out he has after 2021. If that opt out isn’t there you have him for 6 years at 34.5 mil AAV plus whatever you do to eliminate the opt out.
I read somewhere that Guggenheim will sell the Dodgers at some point over 3 billion, Who could be next in line to buy our beloved Dodgers.
Dodgers Should sign Will Harris or other Experienced arm like Hudson still on market. Also should get either Wood or Walker or both for depth and possible bargain starting pitching.
Dodgers are the regular season champs in a weak division.
Read this morning that the Dodgers are still one of the teams in the mix for Josh Donaldson. Given that he’s reported to have 4 year offers and is tied to draft pick compensation, I wonder if that’s something the Dodgers would even consider.
Jamey, Jamey, Jamey!!! The Merriam Webster of LADT
M.T. – Mickey and the the Stuntmen… Be still oh heart of mine… That crew brought a lot of joy to the Ravine…
To me, there’s either still some work to do before the Spring begins, or things aren’t going to plan. With Chargois in Japan, the 40 man stands at 39. This includes Tyler White, who is out of options and would make for an all right handed bench if no other moves are made.
Looking at your list of starters and bench players, I can anticipate unnecessary platooning in order to get ABs for Taylor, Kike and to split ABs among 4 outfielders that all deserve to start.
After seeing a 13 man pitching staff for the better part of as long as I can remember, I doubt they would be willing to go with a 12 man staff with so many young pitchers projected to be there. Especially when they’re already going to have an extra position player that they aren’t used to having.
Fanfest is upon us. Mr burns shouldn’t talk er gollum. Pressure should be on to make moves before the event. A lot of frustrated fans will be their. Showing up empty handed is not a good look and will feed into the narrative that the dodgers are cheap and never pull the trigger.
Which dodgers will get shafted in arbitration. We know the dodgers want to the luxury tax champions.