Bill Veeck, Charlie Finley, George Steinbrenner were examples of owners that were bigger than life and wanted nothing more than to win (and put on a show). Walter O’Malley was cut from the same cloth. Peter was more of a pragmatic businessman who knew he could not spend to stay in the game, and got out. None of those early owners would let MLB tell them how to spend their money. But the game has moved on to corporate ownership and bottom line, return on investment, return on asset (WAR), are now just as important as winning. At least that is how it appears. Where are the Dr. Jerry Buss’ who put winning at the top of their agendas rather than profits? Maybe Hal Steinbrenner will be more deliberate this off season, but George would never let $$$ get in the way of acquiring players he deemed necessary to winning.
More and more baseball journalists are skeptical that LAD will do anything to sign elite FA. Sure the Dodgers ownership group has come out and said that AF is not bound to an arbitrary CBT threshold, but is he? It certainly feels different when an owner comes out says we will not be limited to a threshold, but counters that with “only at the right price” or “only if the budget will allow” or words to that effect vs. we will spend whatever it takes to get a WS Championship team in LA. LAD ownership can say that. They are not the Marlins, or Rays, or A’s. They are not guaranteeing anything, just saying that money will not be a deterrent. LAD ownership was willing to spend crazya** money to bring people back to the stadium with the Punto trade. It was a good business move (at least appears to have been), but it did not end up with a championship, and hindered the team from other subsequent moves. Was the ownership distraught? I do not think so. It got attendance back up and made LAD baseball very relevant. Now they continue to lead MLB in attendance and have a very profitable television contract. From a business plan they are set. But what about winning? The ownership has proven they can spend, but will they spend to win a championship?
We can all agree that signing Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg, or Anthony Rendon will not guarantee a WS Championship. But I like the Dodgers’ odds much more with them on the team than without. Sure Ken Giles is a gamble, but I like the Dodgers’ odds in the late innings more with Giles than with Yimi Garcia or Scott Alexander or Dylan Floro or Casey Sadler or JT Chargois. Mark may be right and one of them may catch lightning in a bottle and have a great year. But they never have and Ken Giles (still a big gamble IMO) has.
What’s wrong with dope fiend contracts if they do not hinder the Dodgers overall financial success? If the Dodgers signed Cole and Rendon, it might bring their payroll up $65MM – $70MM and put them near $230MM to $235MM. They could minimize their payroll with some trades of Joc, or Strip, or Maeda, or Kike’/CT3, or any combination. I will stipulate that they will be over the threshold and incur a luxury tax. So be it. They could take on less salary with Strasburg and Donaldson. But the increase in payroll could be repaid with increased revenues in a championship season. Signing free agents does not require the team to lose any of their prospects that so many are reluctant to trade, so the pipeline continues. Prospects will be blocked, so some of them will need to be packaged to help the current team, as long as there are quality backups to the backups. That does not seem to be a LAD problem right now.
Sure 3 years $40MM for Will Smith might be a bit high, but I am willing to bet that his baseball results will give rise to more wins than will the 3 years $25MM spent on Joe Kelly. Would it be a better return on Smith’s investment than with Kelly? If you measure return on chances of winning it all, then I say yes. Maybe your investors are happy because the team won the Division again and got to the playoff and controlled costs. But the fans are still upset that the team has not won a championship in 31 years. Oh, those pesky fans.
With the Dodgers currently projected to be $45MM below the threshold, I am not advocating that they spend that money just to spend it. If the Dodgers want to play it safe and go with the players already in their organization, and not spend on elite free agents, then I request they do not sign mediocre RH bats or starting pitching. Any starting pitcher deemed less than Zach Wheeler/Hyun-jin Ryu should not be signed. Signing Dallas Keuchel does not enhance the Dodgers chances. Just say no to Cole Hamels, Michael Pineda, Kyle Gibson, Tanner Roark…Any starting pitcher who has no chance of putting up numbers better than Clayton Kershaw should not be considered. Certainly pitchers like Michael Pineda, Kyle Gibson, and Tanner Roark have the ability to have good years, but anything better than a #3 would be an anomaly and not consistent with their ability.
I am not overwhelmed by any RH bat outside of Rendon or Donaldson. Some like Nicholas Castellanos, but is he really an improvement over AJ Pollock?
Castellanos – 888 games – .277/.326/.471/.797
Pollock – 723 games – .279/.337/.467/.804
Take into consideration that Pollock is a superior defensive OF, and there really is no advantage to signing Castellanos.
While Pollock and Castellanos both hit LHP well, Castellanos has superior numbers against LHP. That is important, but IMO hitting w/RISP and hitting w/RISP w/2 outs is more important:
Vs. LHP:
Castellanos – .370/.425/.713/1.138
Pollock – .323/.370/.535/.906
RISP:
Castellanos – .243/.314/.447/.760
Pollock – .351/.429/.595/1.023
RISP w/2 outs:
Castellanos – .200/.273/.300/.573
Pollock – .323/.432/.516/.949
In addition, AJ had a good 2nd half after his surgery to remove the metal screw in his elbow. He hit .288/.348/.537/.885. Yes, he had an absolutely horrid NLDS. Could not have been much worse. Castellanos is projected to get a 4 years $58MM deal. That is $10MM greater than Pollock will make over the next four years. IMO, unless AF can sign either Rendon or Donaldson, wait until the trade deadline to see what RH bat might be available to carry the team through the playoffs and to a Downtown LA parade. AF has not been shy at the deadline with trades for Hill/Reddick/Darvish/Watson/Cingrani/Machado.
Memo to AF; prove many fans wrong and show them that you are not averse to signing pitchers to $220MM+ 7 year contracts, and sign Gerrit Cole. Then nibble for relief with Pomeranz and trades for relief and prospects. I cannot remember who wrote the following to give credit to, but I like it:
“I know the Dodgers don’t like to spend a lot of money on the bullpen, and there are already some good internal options. However, signing more options that Dave Roberts might grow to trust is important. Let’s be honest, managing the bullpen is easily Doc’s biggest weakness. I’d like the bullpen to be Roberts Proof.”
So, are the Dodgers really interested in signing an elite FA, or are they just giving lip service. The Winter Meetings are less than 2 weeks away. We should get a better understanding at that time.
Go Bold or go home.
I think that two or three teams will bid up Cole and Rendon to stupid dope-fiend money levels and the Dodgers will bow out and end up with Wheeler and Donaldson.
AC, just think of the enviable position that ownership finds themselves in. They refuse to mandate any dope-fiend moves and they hired the right guy to enforce that! So AF goes on to produce a perennial contender that looks like it will keep this pace up for a few more years while the farm’s crops are tended to, the box office growing, and the fans supporting it. Even if the fans weren’t supporting it, every franchise owner must be green with envy at what this ownership has done. Yet, there are those like you and me still feeling that they are holding back by not doing a dope fiend move or two. No one in their right mind would deny that Cole and Rendon wouldn’t add an element to the team that hasn’t been there for years. But will management budge on their mandate to AF? You would think they would, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t. They’ve already got a dream scenario going for an ownership who is looking for a good return on their investment and keeping the fans happy and in their seats in spite of not winning a WS.
If anyone can show me how it is not ownership’s desire to refrain from dope fiend moves if they make sense, then the onus will be on AF who would seem to be protecting ‘a good thing’ or possibly just afraid to pull the trigger that might put his job in jeopardy. As many have mentioned, AF’s track record in FA is not a good one. He likes the Muncy’s and Hill’s, projects that makes him look clever. I’m not against that, but I’d like to see some bravery going forth. For once, I’d like to see him acting out of character instead of the same predictable direction of safety that he has chosen. So, we will see who is really in charge of the direction of this team this off season. If they make no moves, corporate ownership reigns. If they sign up big ones, AF has convinced them that he knows best. What do y’all think the case is?
I think that AF knows that he’s ultimately going to be judged on winning a Championship, more so than managing a budget.
I believe that MLB put pressure on the Dodgers to comply with the debt ratio.
I think the Dodgers will go all in when they think the time is right to do so.
I think the fans will revolt if it is perceived that the ownership is not trying to do what it takes to win a World Series.
I think they will make a big splash and make sure they will be well represented while hosting the All-Star game.
There’s going to be a lot of National and International buzz created by the All-Star game and they will want to capitalize on it as a marketing opportunity.
In the back of my mind, I always point back to the A-Gone payroll peak of about 275M and think they will blow past the CBT if it makes sense to do so.
I think it all lines up that this is the year.
With that being said, I would not be unhappy with Wheeler and Donaldson and I don’t want to sign any pitcher into his age 37 season. We’ll see how this shakes out, but I think there will be a big name or two or three or four coming to the Dodgers this year.
I have absolutely no idea what the Dodgers will end up doing. If it was up to me I think I would look to make a statement by signing both Rendon and Cole. Do I believe they’ll do that? No.
There is a lot to like about Rendon, but they have Justin Turner at third and it seems to make sense to keep him there at this point since just about everybody in the organization or close to the Dodgers seems to believe that Gavin Lux will be the starting second baseman next year.
Everybody seems to agree that the Dodgers biggest need is pitching, starting and bullpen. That has been pretty clear watching the Dodgers show on Spectrum. When the subject of need comes up, the answer is always Pitching. They are down two starters.
I’m not sure how crazy the bidding will get for Cole. I think the Dodgers will pursue him or a starter in trade. He’s a difference maker, if he stays healthy. Any team signing him or another elite hurler will buy insurance. That lessens the risk.
So, if I consider the Dodgers situation objectively, I would conclude that Cole is the player they need, the one who can put them over the top in the playoffs. Put him with Walker Buehler and Clayton Kershaw, pretty good playoff/World Series rotation. The Dodgers figure to dominate the NL West again. They’ve got young pitchers and Kenta Maeda to fill in the other two slots.
Will Friedman do that?
Lot of misdirection out there in terms of what the Dodgers will do. Just don’t see Donaldson with the Dodgers in 2020.
If anyone thinks the Dodger ownership does not want to win a World Championship as badly as the fans, I have some land and a bridge I would love to show you.
Outspending everyone usually equates with not winning the World Series.
I don’t understand why fans think it does.
Now, if Cole would go 6 years/$240 million, I think they would be all over that but 8 years and $320 may be a move Dope Fiend Arte Moreno will make.
The one word that never comes up in any off season Dodgers article is “clutch”. There is not one player I can think of on the Dodgers’ roster that is clutch when the pressure is on. Friedman pays way too much attention to analytics, protecting prospects, and hoping for miracles from the scrap heap, while ignoring the necessity of having players who are able to up their game when under pressure. Even one such player can influence the whole lineup; like Kirk Gibson did in ’88; and there are instances of this all throughout baseball history. A player like Rendon just might be the ingredient that sets off the whole team; who knows. This team desperately needs clutch on their roster; not more mediocrity. Friedman has to change his way of thinking or I’m afraid we’ll be looking at Ground Hog Day for years to come.
I would submit that we all might have a different opinion of what “clutch” is if not for the Damn, Lowdown, Filthy, Slimeball, Cheating Astros!
Cross Pomeranz off the list. Going to the Padres. No details yet.
Their bullpen with Yates just got stronger. They are basically changing Stamman for Pomeranz. Unless they are stupid enough to believe that Pomeranz can start. And Preller might just be that stupid.
that hurts
I could not care less what baseball journalists think the Dodgers may, or may not do in pursuit of elite free agents. If Jim Bowden had his way the Dodgers would sign Rendon and Cole, and trade every one of its top prospects for one year of Mookie Betts and two years of Francisco Lindor. Are the Dodgers using semantics? Absolutely! As they should be at this time of the year — there is zero advantage to being forthright with fans and other teams with plans, in fact, it would be horrible from a negotiating perspective. There are other ways to improve the 2020 Dodgers that do not require dope fiend spending, or decimating the pool of top prospects. I do believe the Dodgers will sign at least one premier free agent, and use trade capital like Kenta Maeda, AJ Pollock, Chris Taylor, Ed Rios to further strengthen the roster.
Padres sign Pomeranz
i dont think that anyone would argue that spending the most wins championships but not spending certainly doesn’t either.
The Dodgers have neglected holes for a long time, or spent bad money on holes(Kelly), or fixed problems that didn’t exist(Pollack).
I agree totally with the comment that AC made about what would you rather have…JK at 3/25 or WIll Smith at 3/40? Its not even a close call.
The Dodgers have the resources to do whatever they want. If they went over the tax line, honestly so what….Its a few million dollars. To you and I that is a lifetime of security. To a financial juggernaut like the Dodgers, its a big rounding error.
I don’t want stupid spending that hamstrings the team years later, but after 3 failed runs. you gotta try SOMETHING different.
Not only did the Pads get Pomeranz to fill the late inning setup role for Kirby Yates, but they also pulled off a good trade with the Brewers that will make them better this year and future years. They get a good you OF in Trent Grisham (23), and RHSP Zach Davies. They lose Luis Urias and Eric Lauer. For those who are enamored with DJ Peters, and consider him an untouchable, compare his numbers with Grisham.
Grisham – 441 PA (AA/AAA) – .300/.407/.603/1.010, 26 HRs and 72 K
Peters – 543 PA (AA/AAA) – .249/.358/.453/.811, 23 HRs and 168 K
Both can play CF but are destined for a corner OF spot. Sometimes you have to look outside the Dodgers organization to find players to help.
Zach Davies has been real tough on the Dodgers. Last year in 2 starts he pitched 12.1 innings and allowed 1 run on a Dodger special, solo HR. For his career, 6 starts, 36.1 IP, 1.98 ERA. At Dodger Stadium he is 2-0 with 21 IP, 0.86 ERA, 0.810 WHIP, and allowed 2 runs, again on Dodger specials…2 solo HRs. Pads starting pitching and OF just got better. Not good enough, but when MacKenzie Gore and Luis Patino are ready to join Chris Paddack and Joey Lucchesi in the rotation, and Taylor Trammel in CF, they will be a lot more formidable. I also do not believe they are done with changing 2020 roster. Not to mention that Garrett Richards should be fully healthy, rehabbed, and ready to go. If he gets anywhere close to how he pitched for LAA, he will be good.
I don’t know what to think about Grisham. In 4 minor league seasons (prior to 2019) the most HR he hit was 8. Then he hit 26 in 2019. He has been steadily cutting down his K’s and he has a very good eye. Peters has a better arm, but Grisham is pretty fast.
I always felt Urias had “superstar” potential. The jury is out on this one. AJ Preller can mess something up…
Look at Max Muncy. Players develop power at different ages. Grisham makes good contact and could be a better Franmil Reyes. Zach Davies makes that rotation better. But you are right, AJ Preller can mess it up. I would not be surprised to see the Pads check on Scooter Gennett to play 2B. Or Jose Iglesias.
Urias is going to play SS for Milwaukee, and maybe everything clicks for him there. Urias and Hiura could become quite a DP combo .
I repeat the quotation from Craig Calcaterra from yesterday (re; semantics):
“I’ve been in the baseball news-churning business for a long dang time now, and I can remember back when this was the sort of thing that would make people talk a lot. But it really says nothing, right? At most it says “[Baseball Team] likes good baseball players but is unwilling to pay market price for said baseball players, even though they can totally afford it.”
So what – the Dodgers are interested in the likes of Cole or Rendon – every team is. That doesn’t mean that they will pay what it costs to sign them.
I would be the most surprised fan in Dodgerdom if they signed any free agent to a 9 figure contract.
It was that comment/quotation that you made yesterday that inspired today’s article, so I thank you.
After about 75 innings of pretty lousy pitching for SF last year Pomeranz went to the Brewers where he had about 25 innings of truly excellent relief pitching.
Preller has just paid him 34 mil over 4 years for what he showed in those 25 innings.
Can’t blame AF for not biting on that one.
Exactly. I thought he’d get no more than two years.
Well, he did give Joe Kelly 25/3, so 34/4 isn’t that far off.
Joe Kelly career as a reliever. .236 .317 .345 .662
Drew Pomeranz career as a reliever. .165 .226 .278 .500
Kelly will be 33 in the last year of his deal
Pomeranz will be 34 in his last year of his deal
I do not think AF will ever admit it, but I believe that AF thinks he made a mistake with 3 years for Kelly. There are plenty of one year relievers around, and he is more comfortable in the reliever bargain basement section. But I cannot blame AF for passing on 4 years for Pomeranz. He is more inclined to sign Brandon Morrow to a one year MiLB contract and a ST invite.
I think AF would like to have a mulligan on Kelly and Pollock, but will never admit as much
How many lifetime innings does Pomeranz have as a reliever?
115, Kelly has 245
Even I would not go four years and $34MM. That is worse than Joe Kelly and 3 years at $25MM. But this gives me even less confidence that LAD will do anything significant. What does that mean for Will Harris a proven late inning reliever. This will also increase the player cost for Ken Giles, Aaron Bummer, or any other quality reliever.
Will Harris just pitched his age 34 season. If you don’t want Pomeranz through age 34, why would you want Harris at 35?
I never said I wanted Will Harris. But Harris is a proven late inning reliever and for a championship team (cheaters or not). My point was that if a relief project like Pomeranz is deemed worth 4 years at $34MM, what will Harris demand. I have been promoting Drew Pomeranz since the end of the season, so I was most certainly in favor of AF signing him to a reasonable (or slightly above reasonable) deal. 4 years for someone who has never been a reliable reliever is a bit of a reach. Even Andrew Miller who was a proven reliever at the time was signed to a 4 year $36MM FA contract by NYY for 2015. Will Pomeranz have an Andrew Miller 4 year stretch? Miller was a 3 time AS and was a top 10 CY vote getter for those 4 years. I do not see it. Pomeranz signed for more guarantee than did Brandon Morrow did after his fantastic 2017 season. No, I am going to say that IMO 4 years at $34MM was a reach. SD must have really wanted him, because no other team would have done that.
Follow the Nationals blueprint to win a WS. Don’t sign the most expensive free agent but let him go and then put together the worst bullpen in the league. Easy enough!
The simple formula is; CATCH LIGHTNING IN A BOTTLE!
Yeah, Strasburg, Scherzer, Rendon, Soto, Eaton, and Turner was a lot of lightning in bottles. I guess the Dodgers don’t have the right bottles.
I have heard that Pomeranz is not a guy you would want to go to war with. In other words, he’s soft! He’s the kind of a guy that when there is a fight, he cuts and shoots.
He cuts around the corner and shoots for home.
Preller is not good… and I am being kind!
He did pitch two solid innings against the Nats in their WC game.
I wasn’t all that mad that we didn’t end up with Smith mainly because Pomeranz was still available. Now, this really hurts. I had to step away for a while and when I came back, I’m still really mad about this.
We don’t know what the plan is, so I’m going to take some deep breaths and try to be patient as the off-season unfolds. The only solace I have is knowing that if we sign a starting pitcher and a 3rd baseman, there will be plenty of player capital on the team to trade for a reliever.
Mark said, “Outspending everyone usually equates with not winning the World Series.
I don’t understand why fans think it does.”
Mark, it has nothing at all to do with outspending teams. It has everything to do with getting the right players. You appear to be fine with going with 1 Ace, 1 former Ace, a disgruntled SP with a chip on his shoulder because he believes his 4.0+ ERA belongs as one of the playoff starters instead of the bullpen, and two young guns who MAY be good, but there is no evidence that they WILL be. And when I say good, I mean WS good, not rotation fill-in good. Dodgers can sign Tanner Roark for that. Me and others are not happy to continue to go into the playoffs with questionable pitching that is getting even more questionable (starting and relief). Gerrit Cole or Stephen Strasburg get the team the 2nd Ace to go with Buehler. And Cole/Strasburg costs $$$.
If not Cole or Strasburg, then who? You have said no to Kluber. You have said no to Thor. You have said no to Verlander and Greinke. You would probably say no to Scherzer. I believe you said it is time to move on from Ryu. You are not getting de Grom, Jack Flaherty, Mike Soroka, Luis Castillo, Mike Clevinger, Shane Bieber, Lucas Giolito. You have 18 untouchables (19 if add de Geus) meaning you are not willing to trade any prospect for anyone who can help this year. You are not getting Ken Giles for Jeren Kendall and Morgan Cooper. You are not getting Aaron Bummer for Jair Camargo, Luke Heyer, and Zach Willeman.
You prefer to stick with Urias and May and hope that luck is with the Dodgers in 2020. It wasn’t in 2016, 2017, 2018, or 2019, but it will be in 2020? You are bound to be correct one year, right? You are fine with hoping that Garcia, Alexander, Floro, Chargois, Kolarek, and/or Sadler will all of a sudden become a legit late inning high leverage reliever. They never have, but we should keep hoping. None are capable of being a closer just as neither Baez or Kelly or Ferguson or Stripling are. So it is Jansen or an unproven Gonsolin for closer, and no proven setup. Mark, I know you believe Dennis Santana can be that guy. He never has been, but this year will be different? Brett de Geus has not pitched past AA.
Scott Boras wanted $450MM++ for Harper last year. He got nowhere close to that. What Harper really wanted was to sign the largest contract to that point, never go through FA again, and stay with one team. He got his wish. Just because Scott Boras says he thinks Cole is worth $320MM++ doesn’t make it so. He is not going to get anywhere near that. What if he signs for 7 years $245MM? He gets what he wants. The largest contract for a pitcher both in raw $$$ and AAV. But it is more than $220MM, so is that your budget line for Cole? Because you are right, he will sign for more. We know that AF was willing to go 5 years and $155MM to $160MM for Greinke, but that seems to be the ceiling in years for AF and players, especially pitchers. Arte Moreno? I agree he wants Cole. But the LAA have a lot more holes. He would be better off signing Ryu, Wheeler, and/or Keuchel for a lot less, and be able to sign other needs.
Those of us who have complained about the bullpen should not worry? After all Yimi and Scott are going to have career years. Of course that is what was said last year, and we know how that turned out. But now that three of the top four FA relievers are gone, why worry when Daniel Hudson, Craig Stamman, Steve Cishek, and Pedro Strop are available. History tells us, that is more like the AF signing than elite relievers. I still have hope that AF will look at Betances on a one year with incentives contract. He has potential upside, while the others are mediocre at best. I am tired of mediocre.
So if no to Cole, Strasburg, Rendon, Donaldson how do the Dodgers improve? Maeda is moving from #5 to #3. I am guessing that you will be fine with trading Joc, Kike’ or CT3, Strip or Maeda for more prospects to protect. What the heck they may get up to 25 untouchables. And then we cannot trade them because we are so afraid how good they may become with another team, and they will leave with no value as MiLB free agents. In the meantime, guys like Christian Yelich and Gerrit Cole are getting traded for packages less than what the Dodgers could have offered. And guys like DJLM can sign with other teams when there was a need for him in LA. I know, first he was made only for Coors, and now he is made only for Yankee Stadium. It seems that no non-Dodger can become a successful hitter at Dodger Stadium?
Welcome back to OKC Rocky Gale
Dodgers doing their best to keep up with the Padres and Braves in off-season moves!
$320 million for Cole? Seriously? Won’t happen. But AC has a good point. How will the Dodgers improve? They can afford Cole, excellent position to do that. Not sure the Angels are a fit. They need a couple of pitchers, good ones, and a couple of other pieces to challenge for a playoff spot. Cole would almost eliminate that.
So, if not Cole, how do the Dodgers improve? Re-sign Ryu and Hill, trade for a Kluber or another starter. Sign Rendon. Trade Maeda for bullpen help. Trade Pederson and Hernandez. That scenario would work money wise. Friedman did indicate he might shake things up.
Having a really good right handed bat might make a difference in the playoffs. Dustin May looks good for 175 innings, Tony Gonsolin could be a swing guy. Urias should be a very good starter. Hill will be ready by June. Could start or come out of the pen. Add someone like Dellin Betances. Lots of potential pathways.
Whether they sign a big free agent or not, lots of ways to improve the 2020 team.
What works in the playoffs is dominating 1-2 starting pitchers. Cole and Buehler makes us prohibitive WS favorites even with our existing bullpen! Pull the trigger AF and go all in. If not now then when?
No comments from me other than a wish for a very nice Thanksgiving to everyone here and your families. Be grateful and enjoy the time you can spend with them and be grateful of the past memories when you could. I know, I am.
LIFE IS GOOD… Especially when you know it!
Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours!
AC,
I have no clue what Cole will get. Like I said, I would love him at 6/$240. That’s $40 M per. I am fine with that. This is just like Greinke: 5 a@ $155 but 6 @ $206? I would not do it. Maybe 6 @ $275
I’m OK with Wheeler at the right price. Move on from Ryu. Trade Madea. I like Donaldson’s intensity!
I have heard from back channels that the Dodgers are talking to the A’s about Blake Trienen. Allegedly, Sheffield. Kazowski, and others are being discussed. Trienen may be worth a shot.
I do expect Urias to be a solid #2 this year. He doesn’t need to pitch 200 innings.
Let’s re-visit Pomeranz in July…
Let’s revisit Pomeranz in July is hindsight. If you are against signing him as a FA then support it. We all have opinions and we will know if our opinions are justified later in the year. There were plenty of good reasons to sign him. I was for signing him, but not at what he signed for. If he crashes and burns, so be it. I was for signing DJLM last year. It did not matter if many thought he was only a Coors hitter. He proved he was more than that, and also more versatile by playing a lot of 1B. Maybe he crashes and burns in LA, but there were reasons to sign him. If you just sit on the sidelines and hope that your luck changes, what kind of strategy is that? Take a chance. Milwaukee was a good team in 2017 with 86 wins. But they picked up LoCain as a FA and traded for Christian Yelich and won 96 games in 2018, and had the best record in the NL. They were one win away from the WS. They got a lot of luck with Jesus Aguilar and Jhoulys Chacin, but breakout or career years are not uncommon on teams. But they needed LoCain and Yelich to take them to the top. That is why your idea of one of Garcia/Alexander/Floro/Chargois having a career year is not crazy. But one needs to hedge their bets with talent that has been there done that.
I have zero objection to Donaldson. He could be the missing personality. He fits into the AF comfort zone with number of years.
If you believe that Urias is going to be a #2 at 120-150 IP then the team is in trouble. That is the same as Pads fans believing that Chris Paddack is going to be a solid #2. Except that Chris Paddack was a solid starter in his rookie year. He started 26 games and finished with a 9-7 record on a bad Padres team, 3.33 ERA, 0.981 WHIP, 140.2IP, 153 K with a 4.94 SO/W ratio. Julio started 8 games and pitched 30.1 innings as a starter. That is less than 4 innings per start. His ERA was 3.26 and had 37 K with a 4.63 SO/W ratio as a starter. They are both 23.
Give me Cole and keep Kershaw at #3 and Urias can be #4 and May #5. Maeda to the pen or trade. If Wheeler is the best AF will do, so be it. At least he would be a solid playoff #3 starter. Cole is going to get at least 7 years, and I do not believe that AF will go more than 5.
Blake Treinen is worth a shot, and I would not be opposed to Sheffield and Kasowski if that is what it takes. Treinen may be the 2019 pitcher, but what if he is the 2018 pitcher. Teams sometime need to step out on the ledge and take a chance. Treinen is worth that chance.
Do you think AF would really want to pay Treinen about 8 mil next year, or for that matter, would any team after the year he had? If they really think last year was an aberration I have no problem with trading Sheffield and Kasowski to get him. On the other hand, you could gamble that no one will trade for him at that salary and they’ll have to release him, at which point you could probably sign him for 3 or 4 mil.
Wouldn’t it be fun to trade for Treinen and then sign Betances and Morrow and figure that one or two of the three would have a really good 2020…………………………………..or not.
I think it really depends as to whether or not AF believes 2019 was an aberration. If they waited for the A’s to non tender, then Treinen would become a FA and could decline to negotiate with the Dodgers unless AF guaranteed him the closer’s role. He wouldn’t. It is also conceivable that some team would pay more that AF would be willing. If AF trades for Treinen before 12/2/19, they would have an opportunity to try and work out a contract before 12/2/19. If not, they could non tender. That is a gamble because they would lose Sheffield and Kasowski because of the trade. They could lose Sheffield in the Rule 5 anyway. Or they could just go to arbitration for one year.
I think Treinen is a good gamble, but I would be hesitant to trade prospects and would rather take a chance on him being non-tendered, which is almost a sure thing by the A’s. AF can make his best pitch.
I have surveyed my deep frying gear and the bird is thawed n
ready… Thanksgiving to me is the best holiday of the year…
Eat and enjoy the presence of family and friends… Used to be Christmas was special when my kids and grand kids were young and shopping seemed a breeze. now it’s one big continuous Black Friday…
AC I’m liking you sparring with MT and equally happy the Mascot Mania passed…
Cole n Donaldson!!! Just get it done..
Mark and I like sparring with each other. It is all in fun, and we both do it respectfully.
We keep talking about Cole and the number of years and dollars it will take to sign him. Yes, he would be my first choice but realistically I think the Angels will pay what it takes to get him.
On the other hand everyone assumes Strasburg is going back to DC. He wouldn’t cost as much as Cole and wouldn’t ask for as many years. Maybe the best strategy is to just pay whatever we have to in order to sign Strasburg. After all, he is from the west coast and if the money was right, I’ll bet he’d sign here.
Strasburg would be my preference, he knows how to do it and we only need him to do it once.
I do not consider Strasburg Plan B at all. He is on the same plane as is Cole for me. I just think that LAD is third on the list behind Washington and SD. If AF was able to convince Stras to sign with LAD, that would be a coup. Almost assuredly, Stras would have to agree to a five year deal, as I am still not convinced that AF will sign any player (especially pitcher) for more than five years. I do not think it is the money as much as the years. These guys do not want to go through this again, which is why the more years for them is preferable. Like Cole, Stras will be looking for at least 6 years.
Cole is a natural for the Angels. Went to HS five minutes from the Stadium. But the Angels have only three starters; Andrew Heaney, Griffin Canning, and Shohei Ohtani. They need two more starting pitchers an OF and a catcher, with no real farm system to trade from. Jo Adell is not going anywhere, and probably not Brandon Marsh (because they need OF). The Angels farm system have four players with a 50 grade or higher, and only Adell greater than 50. Andrew Heaney is talented, but he has not been productive. Right now no better than a mid-rotation. Canning is still very new. We have no idea how well Ohtani recovers from TJ as a pitcher. So if the Angels believe they can compete in 2020, it would make far more sense for them to sign Ryu and Wheeler (and for much less). Keuchel also makes sense for them as he is a ground ball pitcher and the LAA infield is pretty decent especially with Simmons at SS. La Stella and Fletcher are decent enough but not GG fielders. But Moreno is very unpredictable. Even if he signs Cole, what else will he have?
59inarow said, “I think they will make a big splash and make sure they will be well represented while hosting the All-Star game.”
This is exactly what I hope will happen. Whether it be Cole or Rendon, or both. I hope the Dodgers will spend this year, and spend big.
The team (with the knowledge they got cheated in 2017) will be all in on a championship run. Not that they weren’t before, but I feel like with the available money, the time is ripe.
It was mentioned in one of the posts about “fan revolt”. The videos of the mass exodus of people after the heartbreaking grand slam, and people running over team jerseys in the parking lot afterward speaks to that. I doubt managment wants a replay of those occurrences. Granted business decisions shouldn’t be made based on emotional displays, and the Dodgers have definitely shown a levelheaded approach to building the team, but sometimes you just gotta take a damn chance.
Sorry for the convoluted post. Hope everyone has a safe and peaceful Thanksgiving.
President Abraham Lincoln – “The year that is drawing towards its close, has been filled with the blessings of fruitful fields and healthful skies,” “To these bounties, which are so constantly enjoyed that we are prone to forget the source from which they come, others have been added, which are of so extraordinary a nature, that they cannot fail to penetrate and soften even the heart which is habitually insensible to the ever watchful providence of Almighty God.” Best wishes to all Dodgers fans for a wonderful Thanksgiving.