With SF coming to town I thought it would be appropriate to discuss why they are so hated in Dodger land. It started off as a rivalry between 2 boroughs in the city of New York. Separated by a couple of miles. Except for very few years into the 40’s, the Giants had the better team and the upper hand.
The Giants joined the ranks of professional teams in 1883. They won their first championships, not really the World Series then even though baseball reference lists it as such, in 88 and 89. They would not win again until 1905. They won 4 pennants between 1910 and 1920 and lost all 4 World Series.
The legendary John McGraw was their manager then. He and the Dodgers Wilbert Robinson did not exactly like each other. And the Dodgers had managed to win a couple of pennants themselves in 1916 and 1920.
For the next 20 years, until 1941, Brooklyn was always the 3rd best team in New York. The Giants went to 7 World Series over that span, won 3 and lost 4. But the Brooklynites were still proud of their team, and sometimes fisticuffs would result as arguments got louder. In 1934 with the Giants cruising to what seemed to be a second straight pennant, Bill Terry, the Giant manager made a statement he would come to regret. With a series with the Dodgers looming, Terry was asked about its importance. His reply was “Brooklyn? are they still in the league? Well, the Dodgers beat the Giants that series and the Giants ended up losing the pennant by 2 games.
In 1941, the Dodgers flipped the script. They became the better team. The Giants did not win a pennant between 1937 and 1950. The Dodgers won in 41, 47 and 49. The rivalry was always heated, and bad blood was evident in some confrontations during the 50’s. Jackie Robinson ran over a Giant who was running to cover the bag, and Carl Furillo had a confrontation with Ruben Gomez after being hit by a pitch. NY scored pennants in 51 and 54, beating the Indians that year for the Series win. The Dodgers won in 52, 53, 55, 56, and again in 1959 when the rivalry moved across the country to LA and SF.
In 59, the Giants were not really the Dodgers main rival, it was the Milwaukee Braves who were coming off of back to back pennants. But there was a game of significance in 59. On August 31st, Koufax struck out 18 Giants at the coliseum. One of the first flashes of real dominance in his young career. Through most of the 60’s and into the 80’s, the Dodgers were the better team and won multiple pennants.
The one incident that perpetuated the animosity between the fans and the franchises was the bat incident between Marichal and Roseboro. That incident probably cost the Giants a shot at winning the pennant. Marichal was suspended and SF lost to LA by 2 games. When division play started in 1969, the Giants were not very successful. Between 69 and 2000, they won 5 division titles, went to the Series once and lost. We all know how successful the Dodgers were in the 80’s with a couple of series wins, and some really good teams that fell a little short. But 88 so far has been their swan song.
There have been some confrontations in the ensuing years. I cannot remember all of them. I do remember an incident in SF when members of the Dodgers went after a fan who took the cap from one of the catchers in the pen. Players went into the stands after him. There have been some bad incidents between fans. The beating of a Giants fan at Dodger Stadium, and the stabbing death of a Dodger fan in SF. Orange and Black, are not our favorite colors.
Of course the most galling thing to Dodgers fans has been watching the Giants win 3 World Series in the 2010’s. Incidents like Muncy telling Bumgarner to “Get it out of the ocean” have kept the rivalry lively. I do respect some of the great players that the Giants have had over the years. I still think Willie Mays is the most exciting player I have ever seen in person. Willie McCovey owned Drysdale. I never could stand Marichal, and was stunned when he became a Dodger. Never got to root for him. He was a blip on the screen. Some Giants ended up in LA unis. Tom Haller was one of the better ones. And some Dodgers went the other way too. Hershiser and Baker both spent time in SF.
Looking back, it is one of the better rivalries in sports. Dodgers have had the best of it for most of the last few years. But SF can still play the spoiler role, and they love doing that. One way you can really see how much the two organizations dislike each other is by knowing that Jackie Robinson, rather than accept a trade to the Giants, retired from baseball. His dislike of them was that deep.
Discussion (165)
Disagree, not disagreeable
Well playing games against the a Giants and Dbacks will help any staff.’a stats! Still have a lot to prove
The Dodgers have 8 pitchers on their roster who have not given up an Earned Run this year.
The Dodgers continue to have the best pitching in the NL… by far. They are #1 with a 2.39 ERA and the next closest team is the Marlins at 3.09.
They are also #1 in Runs, HR, RBI, and OPS, but are lower in OB% ad BA.
Here’s a very important stat: They are 21st in MLB in strikeouts.
One thing that is really getting a little old, at least for me, is the players cutting loose with an F bomb after a bad at bat. They need to realize that with no fans in the stands , those can be heard clearly on the broadcast. Look, I am no prude, I have been know to cut loose with a few expletives when I stub my toe or bang something into something just sharp enough to cut me. But this has been happening almost every game at least once, and sometimes more than that. Have some control out there guys and remember young fans are listening.
They had a big lead. Kelly came in and did not give up anything to hurt them. That cannot do anything but help his confidence. Umpire got the worst of it. Bad call of the year? Kike being awarded first on a phantom hit by pitch. The way he is hitting, that is the only way he is getting on base. If Seager is out for any length of time, I believe they will recall McKinstry. Lux is still not ready according to Roberts. McKinstry looked a lot better than he did the few appearances he made in the start up games. Santana makes one bad pitch with a 5 rub lead and the haters just could not wait to jump on him. Kid has pitched great. He is authorized to make a mistake now and then. McGee could close if Kenley was not available. At least he gets a clean 1-2-3 ninth. Colorado keeps their half game lead with a win over Seattle and the Padres shut out the D-Backs. Mike Trout homered on his birthday for the 5th time. That has to be some sort of record. Alex Verdugo hit 2 homers into the monster and robbed Travis Shaw of a homer late in the game. Verdugo is wearing #99 in Boston. Zack Greinke went up and sat in the stands in between innings during his start.
McGee looks like a steal. Another great grab by Friedman et al
Well with Seager down we’ll probably see a lot of Hernandez, knowing Doc.
Surprised it wasn’t mentioned earlier by some of us here, but WTH was up with Hernández telling the HP umpire he wasn’t HBP. If the umpire is giving you 1B with a HPB to load the bases with no outs why in the hell would you say no it didn’t hit you and then of all things Doc asks for a replay.
I know Hitting with RISP has been really bad but the if the umpire wants to give you a bag take it and STFU. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a stupid act in quite some time. Is Hernández that dumb or what?
McGee, Treinen and Betts. This kid Friedman may have a future In this game!
Kelly really doesn’t know where it’s going
Muncy is supposed to be one of the best dead red hitters in MLB – couldn’t catch up to 2 95 MPH heaters up but down the middle. He’s not right
If Alexander chose to play this season, why didn’t Price? Alexander has a pre-condition, Diabetes. I didn’t agree with Price’s opting out. I know players have a choice, but this guy is aging and it was a new beginning with the Dodgers. Most players want to play.
I don’t think that the Dodgers have other SS prospects ready unless you plan on moving Lux back to SS, but so far he hasn’t made it at the MLB level yet.
Seager is a free agent in 2022. Lindor, Báez, Correa, Seager and Story are all free agents in 2022. Would you risk it with Seager if one of the others is available?
Santana, sit down! This is a job for Kolarek.
1 for 7 WRISP, 15 LOB already. We should be up by 9 runs.
Dodgers go 0 for 3 with bases loaded, no outs.
Can’t hit RISP.
So – here’s the issue with Corey – with his injury history, do the Dodgers commit the big money on a long term contract?
Nice to see Smith waking up.
Rios will need to make a better showing if he is to replace JT at 3B. So far, he is not there. We need JT and I agree with Mark, he would make a terrific DH.
Apart from Rios, who do the Dodgers have that could actually start there?
Will the Thrill wants to keep the job.
When will the Dodgers tire of Barnes and callup Kaybear?
The Dodgers have jumped the Shark!
And that’s why Smith starts all day long over Barnes!
Fresh Prince goes yard!!
They just announced it’s Seager’s back
Just in, report on Seager, lower back discomfort.
When JT is on his game, this team will be great again. I used to call him the heart and soul of the Dodgers but Mookie is making a great case for this title. I do hope JT returns to his expected form. He has given the team a lot and we wouldn’t be such a force without him.
OK, I’ll let Belli and JT play!
I was sitting here watching Mookie and saying to myself, ‘Mookie has become my favorite player to watch’. Lo and behold, he blasts one into the bleachers! I like everything about this guy. He’s got a great presence.
Don’t Betts against Mookie!
Like Badger said, they are a different team with him!
This ump is really squeezing Urias!
This does not look good (Seager).
Great.
They let the shark off the hook and now pitch count in twenties while urias balloons to 45. Advantage giants/ going to be another short start for Dodgers. Bullpen loosen
Thre is no excuse for not scoring a run with runners at 2B and 3B with no outs.
I would make an example of Bellinger and Turner and sit them the rest of the game.
Thus happens too much. There needs to be consequences.
I’m hard-core!
Typical Dodgers – 2nd and 3rd, no outs. No runs scored when the middle of the lineup (Bellinger, Turner, Seager) come up. Can’t hit RISP.
Well that was a pathetic bottom of the 1st
“Maybe a light went off in Doc’s head” is why Barnes is not playing?
That is really silly!
Look at the stats.
In the past 7 days Barnes is hitting .000!
In the past 7 days Will Smith is hitting .333.
Before that, they were pretty close. If you are a good manager, you let the players prove who needs to play. So far, it’s Smith’s job to lose.
Kike is not paying because there is a RHP on the Mound and CT3 currently has the hot hand. Me? I would have put Beathy at 1B and Muncy at 2B, but that is purely subjective.
Another thing I am is a huge Red Skelton fan, Since the game does not start until 8:40 my time, I went to my TCM on demand station and watched an old Skelton film from 1950 called Watch the Birdie. It starred Skelton, Ann Miller, Arlene Dahl, and Leon Ames. It is notable because Skelton plays 3 roles in the film. the grandfather, father and title character Rusty. Pretty funny stuff. I never missed his TV shows. And I have I think 6 of his movies, and the Time Life collection of his TV shows on disc. Including Whistling in Brooklyn, is which the Dodgers play a part, A Southern Yankee, and The Clown. The Clown is basically a remake of The Champ, with Skelton’s vaudeville performer down on his luck, replacing Wallace Beery’s boxer.
Bear, I too had a tough day. I opened the door and the knob came off. I picked up my briefcase and the handle came off. Now I’m afraid to go to the bathroom.
Yeah, I stole this one from Rodney who got no respect.
That’s ok Bear. Everyone has days they would like to start over. Me? I wake up every morning and if nothing new hurts, I think I am going to have a good day. It must be true especially when I have a Dodger game to look forward to.
Today has definitely not been my best day in a while. Getting facts wrong in my story, and having my closet door fall apart on me. Maintenance fixed it. So, I decided I had better trim the old beard. It gets too long and I begin to resemble Gabby Hayes, which would be fine if I was making his money. So, I trimmed her up, vacuumed all of the hair up so it would not get all over the place and stepped into the shower, where I always do the finishing touches on my head, since I shave all the hair I have left off, and do the areas that have stubble. So I lather up, and I am thinking this is about the smoothest shave I have ever had. I go to tap the razor, and the cover comes off. I had never removed the safety cover from the razor. Needless to say, nothing was being shaved! Ahh, the wonderful things that happen as you get older.
Today’s lineup vs the team we hate/dislike/loathe/root against/etc:
Joc
Mookie
Belly
JT (DH)
Seager
Muncy
CT3
Rios (3b)
Smith
Urias
I grew up in Jersey as a Dodgers fan. My best buddy was a Giants fan. He and I kidded each other now and then but never anything serious. Now, Yankee fans were a different story. They would taunt me relentlessly. Letting me know that since I was born the Yankees had beaten the Dodgers in the WS in ’47, ’49 ’52 & ’53. Finally in ’55 the Dodgers beat the Yanks in their 1st WS win ever and It was great. But of course the Yanks came back and beat the Dodgers again in ’56. So I only had Bragging rights for 1 year (damn Yankees). Then, in ’63 The Dodgers swept the Yanks in the WS. There was only one thing left that I wanted to see. That “one thing” took place in 1967. The Yankees finished in last place in the 10 team American League. Total humiliation! I guess that is when my Yankees “hatred” began to wane.
Good stuff again Michael – another Dodgers history lesson for me, and very enjoyable, hope you have the taste for it.
Watched the Dodgers win the West in 2016 during the final Series of the season at AT&T.
Fantastic place to watch a game, especially when you win.
Fans were fine, and there were plenty in Blue there without any incidents.
Bought tickets outside with no problem, and even snuck in behind Home Plate for a few innings a couples of days.
You couldn’t do anything like that in England at a soccer match – too violent.
Baseball is so much more a family friendly environment.
I managed to wangle my way into the Dodger’s Post Season Party on the Tuesday night when Kershaw won it for us, and that’s where I got my picture with him, and a few others.
Great times.
They seem to dislike us more than we dislike them.
Either way, let’s beat them tonight and then tomorrow and Sunday.
*sang this song*
Does this one ring a bell for anyone?
It’s a beautiful day for a ballgame fora ballgame today.
The fans are out to buy a ticket or two
From Walla Walla, Washington to Kalamazoo
It’s a beautiful day for a homerun, but even a triple’s ok
We’re gonna cheer and boo and raise a hullabaloo
At the ballgame today
I sang this sing every time I listened to a Dodger game on the radio with Vince Scully. I even taught my 3 year old grandson to sing it
Take me out to the ball game
Take me out with the crowd
Buy me some peanuts and Cracker Jacks
I don’t care if I never get back
For it’s root root root for the Dodgers
If they don’t win it’s a shame
For it’s one, two, three strikes, you’re out
At the old ball game.
Sure hope we can all sing that again someday.
Like I said earlier, if I had thought about it more, I would not have said hate. Despise is the best I can come up with. Rosey forgave Marichal and that makes him a bigger man than most. I never have forgiven that action. I do not care what personal demons he was fighting at the time. There was no excuse for taking a bat to another man’s head. There was a catcher in our system who bit part of Alex Guerrero’s ear. No excuse for that kind of behavior either. Myself, I have never been involved in a physical altercation because of baseball. There has been yelling, and some profanity’s launched at the opposition. but never physical violence. And despite what some have said, when the Giants and Dodgers moved here it was as much about LA and SF as anything else. I do not know how the fans in SF looked at LA, but I know as a native Angelino, we despised the north. For what ever reason, one, I really disliked driving a rig into SF proper. It is a nightmare for a trucker much like NYC, I never have warmed to the Bay. Of course, I have never traveled there as a tourist either. About the farthest I went was Monterey. But in spite of some incidents in recent years with some other teams in our division, I still do not consider them rivalry’s. It would seem natural that there would be one between LA and SD since they are much closer together. But the fact that the Padres have never really dominated the series, keeps that from happening. With their new talent, some sort of mild rivalry will probably arise. But until the Padres consistently challenge or beat LA, it won’t happen. Arizona and LA pretty much dislike each other. That was fueled a lot when Gibson was managing them. There were some very heated exchanges, and when LA celebrated winning the division by jumping, and according to some reports, peeing in their pool, things got a wee bit testier. To this day if you get one of those field level behind the screen seats, they do not allow fans to wear Dodger gear.
If I were a baseball player and got traded to the Giants, I would legally change my name:
If Roseboro could forgive Marichal and actually become friends with him later on, I suppose I don’t have any reason to hate the man.
To damn much hatred in the world to suit me.
I loved watching Mays patrol the outfield and swing a bat, even if he did things to beat the Dodgers every so often.
I love watching Cueto pitch. It’s great to see a player enjoy himself and have fun on the field.
Do I want to beat the Giants every single time we play them? You bet I do, but I’m not going to hate them if they win. I’m just going to despise the outcome.
Latest podcast from The Athletic basically resorts to another extolation of the Dodgers’ depth.
One thing that stands out to me from that:
If there had been no injuries and if Price hadn’t opted out, Dustin May and Stripling wouldn’t even be in the rotation.
I think the wind that picked up in the afternoon at Candlestick had its own name……… The Hawk.
I used to hate the Giants, and I still do not like them, but it’s not the same. The three titles won by Bochy’s teams made it harder to mock them or argue that we had the better franchise. We’ve been winning the divisions, have won many more games over the last ten seasons, but they have three championships during that period, while we do not have any since 1988.
When the two franchises relocated to the West Coast, it was a glorious rivalry, and we mostly came out on top. 1959, 1965, 1966, all thrilling pennant races . 1962 was awful. Do not forget Alvin Dark having the groundskeeper at Candlestick water the field so it looked like a swamp, and Wills could not steal bases, and we got swept in that series.Then losing the pennant at the end, having a lead in the decisive playoff game, and blowing that in the ninth. That is the most disappointed I have ever been about a baseball season. At least we won the title the next year.
i so well remember watching the weekend games from Candlestick, as those were about the only Dodgers games shown on TV here. Particularly Sunday afternoons, where we seemed to take an early lead, and then the winds would pick up more and more, and the Giants would rally, and the Dodgers would misplay fly balls and even popups, and we would lose at the end. I rarely remember us winning one of those Sunday games. In a better baseball year, 1965, the Giants had a substantial lead, 4.5 games with 13 left to play. They had been winning game after game late, with Willie Mays hitting extra inning home runs. i would have to go to bed before finding out what happened, and my father sometimes took the sports page with him when he left early for work, so i had to find out from my friend at the corner where we were waiting for the school bus; he seemed to almost delight in telling me day after day that Mays had ht a home run late to win it, maybe he had become a Giants fan for a while. It seemed hopeless, but then the Giants started to falter and Alston pitched Koufax and Drysdale with two days rest, and we kept winning, and we won the pennant on the next to last day of the season as I listened in our backyard to the clinching game.That has always been my favorite baseball season ever, and beating the Giants made it even better.
Again, I stand corrected. Thank you Mark. For some reason, age probably, I transposed the Krueter incident to SF. But that’s my bad. There have been numerous incidents over the years. I talked to my friend Gary about it because he was born in Brooklyn and lived there thru his youth. He told me that many times fans ended up going to blows over who was the better team. He himself quit being a fan when O’Malley moved the team west. I think the word I should have used that would have been more apt is despise. Yes, I despise all things orange and black. As bad as Giant fans are, Yankee fans are similarly obnoxious. Just the nature of the beast really. I love that you wanted to bean Marichal with your frying pan DBM! I did not mention Durocher in the article, but I did mention him in a post on this stream. Leo was not fired per se. He returned to the team in 1948, but because of his outgoing personality and the poor performance of the team there was friction with Rickey. Rickey and Horace Stoneham negotiated a deal whereby Durocher was let out of his Dodger contract. That happened on the 16th of July, 1948. Of course, Durocher would later get some revenge in 1951. I knew that Rosey and Marichal had become friends. I had read about that sometime during the period following Roseboro’s death. Bobby Thompson and Ralph Branca became good friends too.
Does hating the Giants lead to Dodger “fans” nearly beating a Giants fan to death in the parking lot!
Great post Bear!! I think you have earned yourself a regular job.
I hate the Giants! If hate is defined as “to feel intense or passionate dislike for” that pretty much sums up how I feel about the Giants collectively, in a rivalry context. I do not hate any of the players(although I didn’t much care for Marichal). The term is used in the same way that I might say “I hate brussel sprouts!” I have a different hate reserved for pedophiles for example.
My “hatred” for the Giants developed in earnest in 1962, when the Giants ousted the Dodgers from the playoffs. It’s only grown since then. I do have several friends that are Giant fans, and we love each other as friends, but savor the times we can rag one another about who won or who has the better team.
On another note, The Athletic has a great article this morning on the 1955 Mays-Newcombe All-Stars, a barnstorming team that may have been among the best ever.
https://theathletic.com/1974916/2020/08/07/the-1955-mays-newcombe-all-stars-might-be-the-best-team-you-never-heard-of/
Very good stuff, Bear. Thank you. Brought back a lot of memories. I remember the Roseboro-Marichal incident and hating every moment of it, wanting to be on the field protecting Roseboro by swinging my frying pan at him.
I also recall sitting in an Irish pub in SoCal feeling my heart sink as Joe Morgan hit that homerun ending the Dodger season. It has been a really fierce rivalry over the years. When living in enemy territory in NorCal, my husband worked in the Bay Area. When the Dodgers beat the Giants, he would wear his Dodger tie to work the next day. I still hate losing to the Giants.
It was April, 1984. 12.5 year old me went to Dodger Stadium for the first time, sat in Field Box behind the visitor’s dugout, and watched the Giants beat the Dodgers 6-4 in 10 innings. I’ve hated the Giants since.
Yes, hate. But it’s sports, so it’s a fun hate. Especially when the rivalry isn’t just about baseball, but about NorCal vs SoCal. And since we all have friends and family on the opposite side, it’s a fun hate. That’s what makes a great rivalry.
The Astros are a different kind of hate. There’s no rivalry. There’s not even a respect. They’re just cheating trash who stole our ring.
Personal memories from the Dodgers/Giants rivalry:
circa 1983/1984 during a TV broadcast. Right at the moment the feed cut away to go to a commercial break as the Dodger players were walking off the infield, there was a closeup shot of I think Dave Anderson having what looked like an orange that was thrown by Giants fan explode on the top of his head.
1988 Kirk Gibson called for security when one or more size D batteries landed near him while he was playing the outfield in Candlestick Park. I think in the same game some fan threw a smoke bomb near the Dodger’s dugout.
I remember, when I was a young fan, the sting of watching Joe Morgan’s home run off of Terry Forster.
The rivalry started for me in ‘58. And that’s what it was, a rivalry, and a living breathing part of the ongoing Northern California v Southern California thing. And you don’t have to have lived here to know it, those regional rivalries are everywhere. It’s just by definition a competition. Nobody likes to lose but hate shouldn’t be a part of it.
And I don’t hate the giants, I just really like it when they lose. I was quite content when they didn’t have a championship for decades and rather upset when they finally won one.
At age 11 in Canoga Park the only games I remember being televised were the Dodgers giants games. Yeah, there was a Game of the Week but I was usually outside playing when that was on. That rivalry became a part of my life watching those Channel 11 games.
I knew better than to wear blue to Candlestick in the 70s. That was just asking for it. On one occasion I raised my fist on a Dodger home run and was pelted with peanuts the rest of game. SF fans are the worst. Rude, vulgar drunks. At least in the cheap seats they were. Can’t say what they were like down near the field.
You left out one of the most important facts of the rivalry – Leo Durocher. The Dodgers and Giants already enjoyed the most bitter rivalry in professional sports when the Dodgers fired Leo. The Giants immediately hired him mid-season in 1948. Many of the Dodgers already disliked Leo for his managerial style and when he switched sides it stoked an already intense hatred for fans and players alike. It was Leo who managed them in ’51 when Bobby Thompson hit the “Shot”.
And yes, if you’re a Dodger fan it it perfectly OK to loathe the Giants.
Interesting about Roseboro and Marichal reconciling. And its true that when you hate something, it owns you.
I can remember really starting to “get it” when I was a little boy, sitting in my Grandma’s beach house in Oxnard (yeah when Oxnard was a little place and you could actually see large expanses of beach), Grandma was really pissed off and tearing Juan Marichal a new one after clocking Roseburo over the head with his bat. If Grandma would have had the chance she would have made Juan into a doorstop.
I always have found it interesting to go to games in Dodgers Stadium or in Candlesuck or AT&T to watch a game. The vocal and physical hatred for the Dodgers in SF is on a whole other level than the expressed hatred towards the Giants in Dodgers Stadium. I think the Giants’ fans (since coming west) have always felt like a second class citizen to the Dodgers, thus they are real pricks in SF. However, most of the time, from what I have experienced, the fans treat you like shit from a distance but are actually very friendly when you are actually sitting around them in your gear in the stands. I lived in SF for a 5 year period and went to most Dodgers/Giants games while there. Nice park to see a game in, btw.
Kenley Jansen must go, he may have lost weight and done a lot of work in the off-season, but he is a total crap shoot (emphasis on crap) whenever he enters a game. Just give him another chance and he will get hosed, he tried to screw things the other night and Taylor bailed his sorry ass out. It is time for Jansen to be a role player and no longer be “the guy”.
Austrian psychologist Wilhelm Stekel, wrote this is the early 1900’s:
There is no love without hate; and there is no hate without love. The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference; the opposite of feeling can only be the absence of feeling. Disinclination, which is coloured by feeling, often only serves the purpose of concealing and protecting oneself against an inclination. Love and hate must go hand in hand; and the people we love most we hate also, because hate is grounded in the nature of love.
I can honestly say that I do not hate the Giants – I just don’t care about them. When you hate something, it has control over you. The Giants don’t control me.
On Roseboro and Marichal: It has been reported that both players were on edge, as real-world events had been a distraction for both players. Marichal was concerned about the civil war that raged in his native Dominican Republic for much of the 1965 major league season. Roseboro, meanwhile, was an African-American man who had just witnessed the Watts riots not far from his home in South Central Los Angeles. A week earlier, smoke from fires set during the riots was visible from Dodger Stadium during games.
In 1982, Marichal hadn’t yet been elected into the Hall of Fame through two years of eligibility, in part because of what he’d done to Roseboro. The men became friends, and Roseboro made it known that he held no grudge against Marichal, who is now 77.
“There were no hard feelings on my part, and I thought if that was made public, people would believe that this was really over with,” Roseboro told the L.A. Times in 1990. “So I saw him at a Dodger old-timers’ game and we posed for pictures together and I actually visited him in the Dominican. The next year, he was in the Hall of Fame.
When Roseboro died at age 69 in 2002, Marichal was an honorary pallbearer and a speaker at the funeral.
By pure chance, I looked on twitter to read some stories, and there was a photo of a baseball card of Chad Krueter, He was the catcher who’s name I could not recall who went up into the stands in Sf after a fan who grabbed his hat. I really had a case of Oldtimers on that one.
I knew when I wrote this that there would be some who did not agree. And that is cool. I do hate getting facts wrong and I should have researched the Robinson trade a bit more thoroughly. There was a great deal of antimosity between the two teams in those years. A lot of it was fueled by the Giant manager, Leo Durocher. My deep seated dislike did not really manifest itself until the Roseboro incident. I was 17 when that happened. And I took it personal. like an attack on family. Probably not the realistic way of looking at it, but I did. As the years have gone by, I still feel the same harsh feelings towards the team. Again, probably not the best way to handle things. Them being successful in winning 3 titles did not help any. Nor does hearing that annoying Beat LA chant every time they go to SF. I doubt I will ever just look at them as just another baseball team. They are the arch enemy. Always have been, and as long as I am alive, always will be. It is hard sometimes because my daughter, and a couple of my grand kids are Giant fans. My daughter married a Giant fan, and I guess to keep harmony in the home she changed allegiance. Damn hard for me to swallow.
Jackie Robinson didn’t retire because he was traded to the giants, he had decided to accept a executive position with Chock full of nuts, a chain of lunch counter type coffee shops in the New York area. He sold his retirement story to ” Look” magazine and couldn’t tell anyone until after a January 8,1958 publication date. Jackie wrote a letter to the giants telling them how much he appreciated the opportunity and how he would have enjoyed playing for the giants but at this time he was retiring from baseball to follow other opportunities for himself and his family.
Rivalries are often good for teams, fan and the game. I prefer the Dodger-Yankee rivalry. It was fierce and without rancor. They played hard and yet had respect for each other.
I am not very pleased with the Dodger/Astros rivalry now. It is time to get over it. The Astros cheated but it can’t be undone. Just go out and take it to them. Making faces and throwing at hitters is more of a junior high school approach.
According to reports Jackie did not retire because he was traded to the Giants. If his skill set had not deteriorated he would loved to have played with Willie Mays. However, his financial future was the reason for his retirement.
https://calltothepen.com/2017/01/05/dodgers-history-jackie-robinson-retires-trade-giants/
Elementary, dear David.
Catharsis is a subjective process of throwing away what you don’t need. It is cleansing. I cannot see anything cleansing in sports. If only it were so! The next day, you just gather what you cleansed back up. That is the cycle of what most human beings are caught in. They never seem to free themselves of catharting. What a burden to carry!
Well, Jeff, I think that the answer is that “we” love to hate them. And “we” is a community of Dodgers lovers, who have banded together to pursue our mutual passion. And yes, “hate” is too strong a word. I hate things that really matter. Marichal’s attack on Roseboro was an act of violence. I don’t know Marichal, don’t know what makes him tick. But I hate the fact that he physically attacked someone who just happened to be sitting behind the plate while he was batting. And yes, “hating” your bitter rival is part of the fun of baseball for some of us. If I had the chance to be in the audience during a game with the Astros, believe me, I would have loved to boo them. The ancient Greeks called it ‘catharsis.’ The passions that arose during a Greek tragedy let the audience release emotions (‘catharisis’). Baseball is theater played on a grass field. It allows us our catharsis, which is part of our enjoyment as fans. No harm in that, as far as I can see, unless we confuse it with things that are truly worth hating, or cross the line into actual aggression.
I’ve always felt our memories are the very things that control us, inform us, and delude us. Many think our memories are factual but in fact we reinterpret things to fit our current point of view which is changeable and often not real. I’m always amazed when the fans create a fantasy of knowing exactly what was going through the mind of someone 70 years ago or even their own mind back then.
Why we hate the Giants. Who is we? I don’t hate the Giants. I don’t even hate the Astros. Why should I hate any of these teams? Teenage points of view, maybe?
Terrific post, Bear! Yes, we Dodgers fans have a deep and abiding enmity for the Giants. As a kid, the Roseboro incident shocked me. Juan Marichal became my public enemy number one. I felt that his suspension was getting away easy. As a former coach of youth baseball, we teach kids to always be mindful of their bats. Never throw them when they run to first base. Lay them down. And take them off the playing field before the next batter. Marichal used his bat as a weapon. One incident that we can add to your list: Bobby Thompson’s “shot heard around the world” that won the playoff when the Giants caught the Dodgers at the end of the 1951 season. We now know that the Giants were stealing signs, a precursor to the Astericks. Of course, the moment of Thompson’s home run was one of the low points in Dodgers’ history. Now we know the truth. He knew which pitch was coming. I suppose that I should forgive, just as Thompson and Ralph Branca became friends afterwards. But where’s the fun in that?