… or not!
NOTE: I wrote this about a month ago and now we have some new information. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/sources-milb-ready-to-agree-to-significant-reduction-in-teams/
It turns out I may have been right. I thought this would give you all something to talk about until May 1st!
Unless we have been living under a rock, we have all heard that MLB wants to contract 40 some teams from the Minor Leagues. Let me go on record right now by saying I am in favor of this… with some caveats. Let me start by saying that baseball is America’s Pasttime. Baseball will continue to evolve with respect to electronic balls and strikes, pitch clocks, designated runners, pinch runners and the like. However, the fact remains that it is very difficult for a minor league player to make the Show.
About 6 to 10 percent of minor league players make it to the Majors. Less than one out of ten. The odds are pretty bad. Since 1976, the rock-bottom salary in the majors has gone up more than 2,500 percent, while in the minors, it has gone up less than 70 percent. Starting pay for minor leaguers is between $1,100 and $2,150 a month, and only during the season, which can be as short as three months. This can no longer be tolerated!
Garret Broshuis was a pitcher in the San Francisco Giants’ minor league system, a University of Missouri right-hander who was selected in the fifth round of the 2004 draft. The minors are filled with players like Broshuis who probably won’t make it to the Show but are crucial to fill out rosters and help develop major league talent. What he has done after leaving baseball may pave a path to change.
Mother Jones covered this exact subject and wrote as follows:
“Now that he’s hung up his glove to practice law, Broshuis thinks he’s found a way to change that. In February, he helped file Senne v. MLB, a federal lawsuit on behalf of 20 former minor league players who allege that Major League Baseball violated the Fair Labor Standards Act and state laws by paying them less than minimum wage and failing to compensate them for overtime. “I think it’s a pretty novel approach,” says Michael McCann, a law professor and director of the University of New Hampshire’s Sports and Entertainment Law Institute. “Wage law is not an area that’s been brought up frequently in sports law.”
Broshuis (pronounced BRUSH-house), who now works in St. Louis, considers himself one of the lucky ones—he did, after all, collect a six-figure signing bonus before heading to the minors. Most of his teammates, he recalls, signed for a thousand bucks and relied on their parents to pay cellphone bills and rent. The family that housed Broshuis lent him a beat-up truck to drive players to the ballpark; team meals consisted of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or cold-cut trays. When the offseason came around, everyone scrambled to find temporary work, often relying on private lessons to get through the winter.
Long story short: This is the first of what I believe are many lawsuits against MLB which will ultimately challenge their Anti-Trust Status. If you want an education on Anti-Trust Baseball Status, go HERE. I think baseball knows it is coming and is preparing to be stripped of that status.
The lawsuit was filed in 2014 and like any suit of this type, it is moving forward with the speed of a glacier. However, it is moving. The Sporting News posted an update on the case late last year:
In Senne v. Office of the Commissioner of Baseball, a lawsuit brought in 2014 by players represented by Korein Tillery, minor league players seek to remedy the low salaries by using state and federal wage-and-hour laws. Major League Baseball responded by lobbying Congress for an exemption from the Fair Labor Standards Act, which Congress provided in March 2018. Named the Save America’s Pastime Act, the exemption was included on page 1,967 of an omnibus spending bill.
The case, however, continues to proceed. In August 2019, the players won an important appeal in the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals that allowed them to proceed as a class action under the wage laws of several states. The players asked the Court to certify a class to adjudicate their minimum wage and overtime claims for work performed in California, Arizona, and Florida. The Ninth Circuit agreed. As a result, approximately 15,000 current and former minor-league players will have their minimum-wage and overtime claims heard on the merits. Korein Tillery and its co-counsel, Pearson, Simon & Warshaw, will represent the class of players.
The Sporting News had an interview with Broshuis late last year. Here it is:
SPORTING NEWS: A lot has changed since we started talking about these issues years ago. Wanted to see how you feel things have shifted from your perspective, especially in the past couple months.
BROSHUIS: One thing that’s certainly changed is Major League Baseball has said they’re serious about increasing salaries now. We’ve been fighting for that for over five years now, and we don’t know what it’s going to look like, or if it’s going to come to fruition, but we certainly hope it does come to fruition because it’s long overdue. Thousands of other ballplayers hope so, as well.
SN: Does this latest development, the threatened elimination of 42 minor-league teams, impact what you’re trying to do?
BROSHUIS: I really do hope they’re serious about raising salaries, and I hope it’s a meaningful raise and not just a small raise. You take the Blue Jays, for instance, and even though they increased salaries by 50 percent last year, which is commendable, they took that first step on their own. That still means the salaries are below the poverty line for a lot of guys. And it still doesn’t do anything about spring training, when guys are working 60 or 70 hours per week and not getting paid at all.
But even if you’re serious about raising minor-league salaries, you shouldn’t have to cut minor-league teams in order to do that. We aren’t talking about huge sums of money, with minor-league players suddenly getting rich. We’re just talking about a decent, livable wage in accordance with the same laws that McDonald’s and Walmart comply with. Surely Major League Baseball could find a way to do that without cutting 25 percent of its minor-league teams, and by extension, 25 percent of its minor-league players.
SN: I’ll admit, it was jarring to hear the commissioner say at the Winter Meetings in San Diego that minor-league players “deserve to be paid fairly” after what’s happened the past few years. Do you feel like the salary thing might be a pawn in what baseball is trying to do, to reduce the number of minor-league teams?
BROSHUIS: I hope they’re serious about (raising salaries), but you have to look at it from a historical perspective. It was just March of 2018 where they succeeded in getting an exemption from minimum-wage laws passed after spending millions of dollars lobbying Congress. So, I hope they are serious about raising salaries, but it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to cut teams.
There are some things that are real concerns for players. For instance, when they talk about playing conditions. Some of those fields don’t have the best playing conditions, and they actually are unsafe at times. That needs to be addressed. And there are issues with scheduling. Currently, the rules between Major League Baseball and Minor League Baseball only require one day off every 30 days. So if the league schedules a day off on Day 28, then waits another 27 days to have a day off, you’ve played pretty much two months straight with only a day off. So something needs to be done about that, too. That just wears out the players.
Some of the alignment that’s occurred with teams moving, that is a real thing. You have leagues that are too spread out, and sometimes you have teams like the Nationals that are stuck with a Triple-A partner in Fresno that, geographically, doesn’t make sense. So some realignment does make sense. Those are real issues that need to be addressed from the players’ perspective. But, again, it seems like you could address those things, I would hope, without cutting 25 percent of your teams. I think there are other reasons behind this, other than just stadium upgrades and paying players more. I think there’s more to it than that.
SN: What was your first thought when you looked at that list of the 42 teams?
BROSHUIS: What jumped out to me was that I played in a number of these towns, both as a member of a visiting team and the home team. The first place I played was in Salem, Ore., and I’m very fond of that area. The Northwest is one of the most beautiful parts of the country, and to think that it would be deprived of baseball, for the most part, it’s surprising. For a lot of those towns, the closest major-league team is Seattle, and that’s a really far drive for those fans. A team like that, a league like that is an introduction and professional baseball, for better or worse, what professional baseball is all about.
SN: I saw that Senator Sanders took a little batting practice after your meeting, so I’ll ask you this: Can Bernie Sanders hit a curveball?
BROSHUIS: (laughs) They didn’t trust me throwing to him, so I wouldn’t know. It looked like he was trying to work gap-to-gap pretty good, though. He rolled over the first couple to the third baseman, but then he started showing some gap-to-gap power. I was impressed for a guy in his 70s.
SN: Aside from his gap-to-gap power, what was your takeaway from your meeting and how seriously he’s taking this issue?
BROSHUIS: He was very prepared. Like he is with a lot of things, he is very passionate about it, too. This is something that’s personal to him. He was the mayor in Burlington, Vt., when they got their minor-league team, and that’s one of the teams on the chopping block. He’s also a lifelong baseball fan, and when he says he’s outraged, you really do feel he’s outraged over it.
There have been a lot of politicians who say they’re outraged over the plan to cut 42 minor-league baseball teams, but he’s the first one to take it a step further to say, “You’re right you need to pay minor-league players more, and there’s no excuse for not doing that in the past, and you shouldn’t use that as an excuse for cutting teams when you have the ability to pay those players a decent wage right now. You don’t need to be cutting minor-league teams in order to do it.” It’s great for him to support the players.
SN: Realistically, how do you think this influx of political interest helps or hurts what you guys have been trying to do?
BROSHUIS: From the perspective of the minor-league owners, there’s a reason they went public with it. There are things Congress can do that gives Congress a lot of leverage. That antitrust exemption is obviously very dear to Major League Baseball. They are the only sport that has that type of exemption, and a lot of what they do is modeled over having that exemption. Looking at it from the minor-league standpoint, the current minor-league wages would be illegal under antitrust laws, if not for the antitrust exemption they have. The only reason they can collude on (minor-league) salaries at this point, without having to go through a union, is because they have that antitrust exemption.
That’s one thing, but there’s also the Save America’s Pastime Act that they passed a year-and-a-half ago, that Congress gifted that to them in the middle of the night in an omnibus spending bill. If Congress wanted to take that away from MLB, that gives a very powerful lever to Congress as well. So we certainly welcome politicians speaking out about this. To date, most politicians have been indifferent, at best, about the issues of minor-league players, and have far too often sided with ownership on this. We welcome the chance to speak to any other members of Congress on this, and educate them from the perspective of the players, because that perspective has been ignored for far too long.
SN: I feel like I’ve heard that threat, “take away the antitrust exemption,” since I was a little kid. Is this a big enough issue to make that a realistic option? Could this be something like Al Capone’s taxes?
BROSHUIS: It depends on how hard the two sides dig in. Now, both sides are taking pretty extreme positions, and they’re doing everything publicly, and they’re at each other’s throats. And if they dig in and they’re entrenched, and neither side will give ground and they can’t reach an agreement, then, yeah, I think there is a serious threat that Congress will get involved.
We can analyze until we are paralyzed and we can come up with all types of dream scenarios, but I am more pragmatic about it. Baseball will contract those teams. It will happen. Get used to it. It’s what comes afterward that is up for debate. Here’s what I think has to happen:
- Minor league salaries have to increase to $70,000 for A-Ball, $85,000 for AA Ball and $100,000 for AAA ball. They have to get paid year-round so that they can train year-round (maybe then more can make it to the Show);
- Minor league “In-Season per diem” should be close to the same as a major league player. End of story. Think about it;
- After contracting 40+ teams, the existing facilities would have to be upgraded. Travel needs to be more regionalized. For instance, maybe A ball is in the East, AA is in the Midwest and AAA is in the West. Lrt’d use some logic here;
- Finally, I think MLB should provide “Seed Money” to fund a REAL Independent League. Entrepreneurs could use the seed money to start “academies or training centers” where minor league players, as well as college players and former MLB players, could come together in “hubs” whereby 9 or 10 teams could share a stadium and play 3 games a day. I believe there could be 4 or 5 “hubs” in certain areas of the country (maybe Canada and Mexico) where they could have different levels of players playing. There would have to be certain stipulations, but MLB would contribute a specific sum each year and there could be “loose affiliations.”
This is just the beginning of a “brainstorm.” Maybe these independent teams are academies and they get a “commission” for any player they “graduate” to a minor league team. Each stadium would play a “triple-header” every day and admission and food and drink would be how the owners make money.
Maybe games start at Noon, Four and Eight. I haven’t thought all of this through…and I don’t think you can, but I firmly believe that problems are opportunities in drag! There are two sides to every story. The owners will lie to you and the MLBPA will lie to you. Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
This is just a conversation starter… Maybe it’s all about greed and nothing good will come from any of this. That’s always a possibility! In fact, with Rob Manfred, it’s a given!
Your thoughts?
Posting Content
There has been some discussion as to posting content from a paysite on LA Dodger Talk.com. When we talk about paysites, we are talking like The Athletic.com or LATIMES.com who have monthly subscriptions. Free content can be posted anyplace, I do not mind if you post excerpts from those sites occasionally, not every day and I don’t mind it when AC posted what he did yesterday in its entirety.
It is copyright infringement, BUT The Athletic knows that I am a big supporter of theirs and what has happened is that many people here who subscribe may have subscribed because of what I posted. They have FREE TRIALS as well. We can’t do it all the time, but an occasional one is not viewed by them to be a bad thing. It gets then more subscribers. I happen to know several of the writers. Just use it sparingly. In criminal law, it is called mens rea, which is the intention or knowledge of wrongdoing that constitutes part of a crime, as opposed to the action or conduct of the accused.
Never Surrender
I had to laugh when he said Bernie was mad about how low the salaries are. Is there anything he’s not mad about?
I would love to see video of him in the cage btw.
Gap to gap power.
Isn’t that a good thing?
I have gap-to-gap power – the gap between the pitcher and the catcher, the gap between SS and the 3B foul line and the gap between home plate and 1B.
I played once last year and hit it with everything I had… knowing that it would easily clear the CF wall. It barely cleared the IF and I was dancing on 1B!
The mind remembers, but the body betrays you!
“The mind remembers, but the body betrays you!“
Well said.
I hit my last home run when I was 50. That was 22 years ago. Up until I was 60 I could drive a golf ball 250 yards. That was 12 years ago. Now I’m benching with 100 pounds, and jogging 25 yards at a time. I remember how to do all those things that I usta could easily do, but actually doing them? Nope. I do still swing a bat in my living room. 32” Louisville Slugger, Reggie Jackson model. I swing it slowly with focus on form and mechanics. I’m sure if there were a ball involved the resulting flight off these swings would be soft line drives over infielders outstretched gloves into the gaps. I’d still be hitting .400, but wouldn’t be able to steal second or go first to third on a single. It’s fun remembering. At one time I was actually pretty good at a few things. Now I’m just good at running my mouth off about it.
You run it well. 😉
At 72, my good drives on a warm day are still 220+.
Maybe the candidate that is most like the 3 perfect outcomes.
He wouldn’t dig in against me. I would do a Drysdale and put him on his tushie.
He would charge the mound.
Bernie is what? 6-0 160 pounds, 7 years older than me and 110 pounds lighter. I would body slam him before he could ever swing. Even with a bad shoulder.
First you would have to dodge his wagging finger which looks pretty lethal.
The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate? No Poblemo………..I’d just break it for him…..My slowest move is too quick for the Bernster.
I still have my Reggie Jackson 35-35 than I have had since I was 18. I’ll post a picture someday.
I hit more HR than Babe Ruth (but none counted)… or so I say!
It’s weathered and beat up, but still intact!
My last HR came in 1974 in a softball game. 26 years old, and my knees were shot. Wing was bad too. Hurt it when I was 11 trying to throw a guy out from CF on a field that had no fences. I got him by the way, but after that, every time I threw hard it hurt like hell. Shoulder was messed up from slipping on ice and landing on it. Never had it checked, which was pretty dumb, but I was 19 and cocky and in the army, and I did not go running to the medic’s every time I had an owie. I played in a few games in 76 for a bar team. But that was the end of that. I took cuts in batting cages in Cali after I was out of the army, just to see if I could still hit the ball. 80 MPH, no problem. But anything higher than that, and I was toast. I have a 32 ounce Manny Ramirez model I keep. I swing it now mainly to keep my shoulder from getting too stiff. The memory is always there. I can remember the ones I hit hard, and the ones I didn’t. So I kept in the game by other means. Getting as much of the games history and Dodger history in my memory as I could. Collecting cards is relaxing to me. Reading the stats, when you can actually read it since the way the new cards are designed, you need 20-10 vision or a strong magnifying glass. That is why a lot of the cards I have are reprints of the older cards. Like the designs better, and they give a lot more info on the players than just the stats. Used to love those cartoons on the back of the Topps cards in the 50’s and early 60’s. Liked it when Fleer did their Hall Of Fame series in 61 and 62. No way we kids could afford a Ruth or a Gehrig. And over the last few years it is bobble heads. My favorite homer, which did not count for anything by the way, but I remember it vividly, I was in 5th grade and we were playing a game on the playground at lunch. I am a lefty hitter, so to me this was great, I hit a ball to left center field that no one was going to catch, and it hit a girl who was playing volleyball right on top of the head. Could not have done that again in a 1000 years.
Interesting topic. I have been to more than a few minor league games in my time. I love going to watch the Quakes when I am in Calif. Nice ballpark, reasonable seat prices, and convenient parking. The baseball there is pretty good too. The kids are working hard at their craft. The hat gets passed after a HR by a member of the home team. Players are way more accessible to fans than in the majors. Kids are a big part of the show. They have games the kids do on the field sometimes, and 2 Mascots for the kids to enjoy, Tremor and Aftershock. I was stationed in a town that had a AA minor league franchise. El Paso. When I first got there, they were the Sun Dodgers. Lee Lacy was part of that team. But the next year, the Angels took over the franchise, changed the name to the Diablos, and they had all red unis. Norm Sherry was their manager, guys like Ron Jackson, Frank Panick, Dave Collins and Jerry Remy were on that team. Also a SS named Mike Miley, one of their prized prospects. He was killed in a car crash in 1977 after playing at Salt Lake City. Minor league ball for some of those towns is the major form of entertainment. El Paso also has a college there, so basketball and football are available in the winter. But watching baseball was a pastime many enjoy there in the summer. Taking it away from some of those communities will have an economic impact, as well as a social impact. But the players definitely need to be paid better.
I’m waiting for AC to chime in and blow me out of the water!
😉
I am 80 this year. 180 yds. for me is a good drive. That is why we play from the forward tees. My chipping and putting is still pretty good.
That’s great Al. I once hit a golf ball about 370 yards. But I cheated. I did it with a baseball bat. Never have been a big fan. But had some buddies in the Army who were addicted to it. Took me to an Army par 3 course. I am a lefty, so I was using the clubs provided by the course. I am the worst golfer ever. Wicked slice, never hit a single drive down the fairway. So, after 6 holes, I just said to hell with it and never have played again, save on a miniature golf course. Probably the one sport I was never even close to being competent at.
Those volcano holes and windmill holes can be problem.
Or the swinging log. Hate that one. Never have got a hole in one there. Did ok on the windmill’s, but I think it was pure dumb luck. I like the 18th. Have won a few cokes and free games.
Al, do you take a breath on your back swing?
Thought-provoking article today, Mark. So is it a choice between good salaries for the minor league players or a reduction of minor league teams? I am interested in AC, DC, 2D2’s, and others opinions on this.
DBM< It will probably turn out to be some sort of combination of the 2. Players definitely need to be paid more, and like the guy in the story said, all year round. What they make now is pitiful. And a lot of those guys, save the high draft choices who got big bonus's, live on fast food, and charity of the community in which they play. The Quakes are pretty lucky in a way. The play in one of the better communities in Calif. Nice ballpark, and a lot of good places to eat. Travel for them is not too bad. The farthest they have to travel is up to San Jose. Modesto, Stockton and Visalia are the other North Division teams they have to visit. Bakersfield, which was a Cali league city for years, now has an independent team, The Bakersfield Train Robbers. Got to love minor league names. One of my favorites, Modesto Nuts. And college is not that bad either. How about UC Santa Cruz Banana Slug? How great is that ?
The poor pay that is occurring in the minor leagues, the contraction of minor league teams, the Luxury Tax issues that force teams to pay exorbitant penalties, the payment of those penalties to the “sisters of the poor” franchises and the often resultant use of those dollars for personal or corporate greed rather than the strengthening of the baseball capacity are all closely interconnected and are the cause of the vast majority of the problems that are happening in baseball presently.
I wonder how franchises in that lower group would feel about the creation of a system like that in place in European soccer where the are multiple levels of leagues and placement within a level is based on the prior seasons performance. The teams that are willing to spend dollars on player development and acquisition, quality management and analytics, and facilities management and improvement are probably going to rise to the highest division and compete against other like minded franchises.
Likewise, franchises can also choose to compete at a lower level due to funding restrictions caused by location in smaller communities or lesser interest. Every division would have its own championship. Teams in the lowest level of a higher rated division would slip down a level and be replaced by the highest rated team in the division below . Such change could occur annually or on another regularly occurring schedule of every three or four years.
Just think about what this could do for baseball. Every franchise would be forced to seek its own level of competitive excellence and would be able to rise or fall based upon their ability to manage and operate in a skillful and professional manner. A team could potentially rise or fall from the top or bottom of the entire system over a number of years. Competitiveness level of the sport and fan interest would drive teams to try to improve in order to rise to a to a higher level or at least maintain its present status.
Not fact based but it would seem like Junior College would be a better path for many players where they could major in first aid, golf course management, criminal justice, welding, just to name a few. If they excel in JC ball they would be behind those that played full time in the minor leagues but would have something to fall back on if their baseball career stalled.
Teams could draft and sponsor players that played junior college ball while still shrinking the number of minor league teams.
Excellent point.
I’m impressed by all the athletes on this blog. A good drive for me is if I hit it passed the lady’s tee and it doesn’t go out of bounds. That makes for a good day!!
I once heard that a good definition of a good drive is any one that you can find.
I definitely think we need to have more trades taught in school. There are a lot of skill positions that are really short of people who can do the job. Some are just not cut out for college, either because of money, or because they are not very good students. When I was a kid, we had metal shop, electric shop, wood shop, auto shop. Some kids acquired skills in those classes that helped them in life. Being good at baseball is a combination of god given ability, and for some extreme dedication to becoming the best they can be. College is definitely a good source of talent, but for international signings, especially since some of those kids are signed so young, you need the tools to develop them. The minors provide that. Athlete in my youth Dodger Mom. Have not been that good for years. I would be worse than you from any tee.
Bear, as a high school counselor for 25 years, I was a huge supporter of vocational programs (now called CTE, Career and Technical Education). I’m now retired but I still sing the praises of our vocational high school which serves students for 1/2 days in about 22 programs. While not mandatory, this can lead to a head start with admission and degrees in public and private schools and institutes that teach these skills. In a couple of years, a student can be earning a nice wage in a field they enjoy. Obviously, 4 year college is not for everybody. But from experience, do you know the biggest stumbling block in kids participating in these programs? It’s the parents who think their kids need to go to college (the fact is vocational college – is college). This has been a hard sell for many parents and school administrators for many years. The old thinking that every kid should be 4 year college bound and when the kid fails at that, they can pursue something else, is so antiquated and wrong. Just imagine how you and your kid’s life would be ruined if they don’t get that B.A. in History or Recreation Management?
Totally agree. I have 2 nephews who are college graduates now. One went to USD, and got his degree a couple of years ago. Not really sure what he wanted to major in, so he has worked in HR and a couple of other human resources jobs. Right now he is working for the City of Long Beach as some sort of clerk. Not exactly college level stuff. My other nephew got his Masters in Education from Pepperdine last May. He has his certificate, but was unable to get a job until the Compton School district hired him as a sub about a month ago. He worked for 7 days before the ban hit, and the district told him to file for unemployment. Well 1 week is not enough to get anything, but then they called him and told him they want him to get trained in doing on line teaching, and they fully intend to keep him when everything returns to some form of normalcy. Both those boys are in their mid 20’s, saddled with some debt from college loans, and basically not making spit. Both have spent 4 years plus in college. Ryan, the teacher, is never going to make great money. Not as a teacher anyway unless someone finally realizes just how important that job is. I am not really sure what full time teachers make in these times. But I do know they are underpaid. Kevin is the younger brother, and he is the one working for the city of Long Beach. The kid has a lot of brains, lacks drive, and is short on common sense. But he is still discovering who he is. His mom is an RN, and his dad has been disabled for over 20 years from a stroke. Totally different from what happened to me. I quit school and joined the Army at 17. They taught me electronics. I was a radar tech. They also made me grow up pretty fast. I do not regret it one bit. But I knew when I got out that electronics was not really a strong point with me. It took me a couple of years to find a job I enjoyed and could make decent money doing. Driving a big rig. Now for those who think only dummies do that sort of thing, not so. You cannot be uneducated and drive trucks. Just the paper work alone, and knowing all the different laws each state has and keeping up with them is paramount to doing a good job. I was proud that I never once had a late delivery because I did not do my job. Weather or mechanical problems, yes. With the newer trucks, they are so much more technical now, with onboard computers to tell the truck what to do and electronic logs, it is a much more difficult job than it used to be. I applaud teachers, and those who teach tech skills. We need more of those.
I miss playing Baseball!
Grade school summer softball program(LA 1958) resulted in a trip to the coloseum (my first big league game) to watch the Dodgers beat the Cubs 8-3. Big D pitched and you could hear the sound of the catchers glove poping all the way to the outfield bleachers. The Duke cleared the 405 sign in right field and Drysdale hit a high fly to left field that actually hit the top rail of the left field screen, went straight up in the air and came down and bounced again off that bar and into the stands.
Played into my 50’s when I learned you cannot keep playing at 100% without risk of injury. I am 73 now and do enjoy a round of golf now and then. But I still have my highlight reel in my head and relive many of those moments from time to time.
Thanks to Mark and everyone who contributes here. I don’t know how I could stand the lack of baseball without LADODGERTALK.
Please EVERYONE, stay safe. Wash your hands often and do not touch your face. This is the best defense aginst this virus. Considering the average age here we are all at high risk so I pray that you are all safe and that we can get back to Dodger Baseball soon.
Speaking of the sound of the ball hitting the mitt. I often used to sit in the pavilion in LF at Dodger Stadium. Some pitchers the ball just sounded different hitting the mitt. I remember reading a story told by Johnny Roseboro. They asked him how he judged the different pitchers on the staff by their fastball. His reply was classic. He said, well Podres is a no sponge guy. Can catch his fastball in the pocket no problem. Big D, 2 sponges in the glove at least. Really stings when he wings that thing in there, how about Koufax? Rosey replied, as many as I can get in there.
I think Perronoski had a heavy ball that bore into a catcher’s glove that hurt more than pitches with much more speed from pitchers that threw what was called a light ball.
He was a team mate at one time of Dick Radatz. They both threw that heavy ball. Depending on the location, I would think Rosey would catch it in the pocket when he needed to. He was a pretty decent catcher, and a great game caller.
I don’t side with the players or the owners. I side with the fans. Major League players make way too much money, owners charge too much. Many rabid fans can not afford to attend any games due to the cost. I really enjoy reading stories about the Dodgers from the 50’s and 60’s. In the mid 50’s the Dodgers had some really great teams in the minors that had players blocked by “The Boys of Summer”. Ft. Worth of the Texas League comes to mind with Don Demeter, Jim Gentile, Dick Gray, Karl Spooner etc. Spooner had a great first two games. I wonder if his arm problems would be fixable today?
Spooner injured his arm in spring training in 1955 after not warming up properly. He later stated that when he threw a curveball to Jim Rivera, he felt something pull in his shoulder. He pitched one more inning, and then left the game. The next day he woke up and could not move the shoulder and was in a lot of pain. So he went to the trainer and let him know. The Dodgers initially tried to downplay the injury, and in some ways distance themselves from any blame, especially Alston, who had brought Spooner into a nothing spring game without letting him warm up properly. 27 K’s, 2 complete game shutouts in his first 2 big league games. Most likely, in today’s medicine, they could repair the shoulder. That has been done many times. In today’s game, he would not have been rushed into the breach in a spring game. Carl died at the age of 52 in Vero Beach of cancer in 1984. He had been working as a manager in a citrus industry company. He had 5 kids.
https://www.facebook.com/USWaterSystems/photos/a.198785183496247/3648513375190060/?type=3&theater¬if_t=page_post_reaction¬if_id=1585498899348399
Our Marketing Department posted this today. Can you zoom in to my back right pocket? I did not know I was in a Photo Op…
MLB having antitrust exemption is a great example of side effects of government good intentions. Repeal it and watch the market adjust and do this more efficiently.
McCabe and Mrs. Miller also a failure to captivate my son.
Today I’ll try The Searchers. I’m toying with the idea of asking my boy before:
Is Ethan:
1. A hero
2. A Villian
3. An Anti-Hero
4. A Tragic Hero
How old is he?
My son is 20, but he can tell what his favorite movies were at any age.
Fourteen
To think that MLB can’t raise minor league salaries and keep the 42 teams earmarked for elimination is naive. Many of these A- franchises are very established in their communities and provide affordable family entertainment and a healthy introduction to pro baseball for kids. Many of these teams have spent significant money on stadiums and improvements. Lawsuits by these communities are already in the works if contrition moves forward.
Any plans to turn these franchises into independent teams or Dream Leagues are ill fated. The majority of these teams can’t make it without the support of their MBL affiliate. To suggest that MLB could kick in some $ to support independent teams is a wonderful dream but isn’t that what is happening now between MLB and MiLB? And MLB doesn’t want to do it. So who thinks they would voluntarily do so without the PBA agreement?
Independent teams seldom can make it without MLB financial support in salaries and a portion of equipment. A significant number of independent teams have folded leaving substantial unpaid bills in their communities. It is clear the independent model does not work in smaller markets. The incremental costs which these Dream teams would be required by MLB to assume would be well in excess of $350,000 per year, which few, if any, of the contracted teams would be able to afford. So, MLB bailing and assuming these 42 teams could continue is naive.
Stanford economist Roger Noll estimates the true savings of cutting 42 teams would be about 22.5 million. Even with a 50% raise in MiLB player salaries, does anyone think MLB can’t afford that? MLB doesn’t have the money? A third year AAA player with a 50% raise from the current salary would be $4050 per month. At 5 months that’s 20K per year. (a ridiculously low salary) assuming the player was never on the 40 man roster. How many MiLB players could be paid for the cost of one MLB star? Manny Machado, with his .256 average last year had 587 at bats for 10 million. My math tells me that’s 51 K per at bat. That’s 2 and 1/2 AAA players for the season. Bryce Harper 44 K per at bat, Garrett Cole is set to make a million dollars per start. How many of the 42 teams would that support?
Obviously there is a giant disparity between the haves and the have nots in pro baseball but don’t tell me MLB can’t afford pay MiLB players a living wage and support the 42 teams on the block.
Nobody paid me to go to college. Not only that, I had to pay the school and buy books. I was on my own to get to class as well.
Minor leagues are trade schools. What am I missing?
Bum, nobody in my family ever set foot in college and it became apparent to me early that my athletic ability was my way to college. After being drafted twice by the Giants and a scholarship year in at a JC, the Phillies paid for all of my college as part of my bonus. Only about 10% of signees that get this offer at signing actually use it, according to a scout friend. Sad but true. I’m proud to say I was one who took advantage of the for my BA which paved the way later for 2 master’s degrees. There are ways to get through if you are persistent and dedicated. It doesn’t have to be a government freebie.
School cost has jumped though.
It’s not just what one learns from getting a college degree; it shows perseverance and tenacity. Many could attend and don’t, many start and don’t finish. It’s a start to a lifelong process of learning, unlearning, and relearning. For some, college was the last time they read a nonfiction book.
In my opinion , for what it is worth, I think these things should be done.
1. The Fair Labors Standard Act exemption needs to be changed or eliminated.
2. Pay the minor league players a decent salary.
3. Do not eliminate 42 minor league teams.
4. Restructure, if possible, the league to cut back on travel.
I like what Garret Broshuis has said and done.
Living Wage. For everyone who works. It can easily be afforded, especially in baseball.
If you are bored and want to watch something really, really good:
https://www.imdb.com/video/vi921942553?playlistId=tt6412452&ref_=tt_ov_vi
The Ballad of Buster Scruggs… on Netflix.
So good.
So, so,so good.
I remember it as being only so so.
I remember it being so, so, so weird.
I really loved the one starring Tom Waits. Probably because I really love Tom Waits music so much. Well that made me pay attention to all the small details of it. They couldn’t of found an uglier camp-trailing-back-shooter as the one with no lines in it. And isn’t ‘Mother McCree’ an old baseball song? Don’t know why I make that connection…..can’t place as to why anyways.
I’m really glad you didn’t close the site Mark. Seems to me you get feelings hurt by some that don’t appreciate all the work that you’ve unselfishly given freely. Been down the same path several times but happily you didn’t cut bait with LADodgerTalk. Happy for me at any rate as with most who come here who do appreciate your gift. Thanks for keeping it free and not loaded with advertisements. There are many reasons for thanks to you and the community here. You’ve done a damn good job.
I off to go 50 miles with my son to take groceries to his grandma (my ex-mother-in-law).
She is 86 and has not seen my son since he has been exiled from NYC.
It’s going to be a weird “no-touch” reunion since she is in the “problem” range. He doesn’t want to be responsible for his grandmother’s death.
He is prepared to run…
Being a grandmother also, my grandkids have decided to stay away to protect me from this virus as I am in the high risk group. But, having said that, if it was a choice between seeing my grandchild or worrying about catching anything from them, my choice would be to see them even if it was only one time for a while until this thing is over. Hard choices these days.
FaceTime?
Hello guys – good to see you all in good form.
On the topic of Golf, I’m heading out in April next year to California to do the “West Coast Swing” for my Pal’s 60th (I’ll be 54).
8 of us starting in San Diego to play Torrey Pines, then on to Palm Springs, LA, Pebble Beach and ending in San Francisco.
Golf trip of a lifetime. Just hoping everything is back to normal by then.
Also hoping the schedule is kind, and I can take the boys to Chavez Ravine.
Hopefully Bobby and some of you other LA dwellers might be about to catch a game. Would be great to meet some of you.
Can put it out there ok, 250-270 yards, but my wedge play and chipping is average.
Really looking forward to it.
Keep safe everyone, it’s getting very grim here now – they are saying it will peak in 2-3 weeks time.
Strange times.
Pebble Beach is hard to get on the last time I checked so awesome that you are going to play it. I’ve played Torre Pines and 4 or so of the better known Palm Springs courses. I always liked Rancho Bernardino in San Diego and Green River in Corona. All that prior to my move to Oregon in 1984.
Sounds like a great trip.
Oregon Bum? Bandon Dunes?
That area has something like 4 or 5 of the top ten public courses in America. They know that based on the prices they charge.
Just read an article on what it is college coaches look for in 18 year old golfers. For Division I players it’s the ability to drive a ball 270+. Divisions II and III it’s 260. The PGA player averages just under 300. I could hit it 275 on rare occasions but often when I did I had to look for it. In the group of 60 year olds I played with 250 in the fairway was damm good. You older guys hitting it 270 is outlier material. Good on you.
I’ll admit golf was never my game. Fun time with friends, but, too slow for me. I Haven’t been out there in quite some time. Don’t really miss it.
Who you play with makes all the difference in the amount of fun golf can be.
That’s so true.
Country Music star Joe Diffie dies at 61 from complications caused by the Corona Virus. RIP Joe, ya made me smile a time or two.
Great hearing from you Watford… Be safe Mate…
Great trip scheduled across the pond!! Keep your head down especially at Pebble..
Today’s main topic just makes me nauseous… Politics + MLB + the Unions = Ya’ll fill it in…
Bluto – Just finished the Deer Hunter and Apocalypse to follow soon… Always exhausted after Deer Hunter…
I had several H.S. friends who you knew were going to be auto mechanics or carpenters and they all did well.. Doing something they love and getting paid for it.. Personally I did well in Aerospace and without much college… Just enjoyed building commercial planes or later war toys…
The Russian Roulette scenes in The Deer Hunter are beyond intense, but what a great movie.
First on The Athletic. I knew I was wrong, and I expected to get some brushback from Bluto, and he delivered. I have never done it before, and I will not do it again. It is Mark’s site and I will let him break the rules. But for me, the Athletic article that I copied was too important and was delivered by one of best Baseball Journalist around, Ken Rosenthal. My bad. In light of the mea culpa, I would once again advise any sports fan (especially baseball) to get a subscription to The Athletic. I have subscriptions to The Athletic, Baseball America, Society for American Baseball Research, and a premium FanGraphs account. The Athletic gives me info not only on the Dodgers, but also my USC Trojans and Green Bay Packers. It has great writers, who seem to be very connected. It even covers MMA.
Now to the subject matter. I will never concede that MiLB needs to be constricted with the loss of 42 teams. Of the 42 teams, 28 are rookie and short season. Mostly from the NY Penn League, Pioneer League, and Appalachian League. Not only short season, but also short sighted. Interestingly, none of the teams on the chopping block are in the AZL for Gulf Coast rookie leagues. Not so strange, is that these leagues are the ones heavily funded by their MLB teams.
The NY-Penn League is one of the leagues that is being dramatically reduced. Nine of the fourteen teams are on the cut list. One of the teams that I am very upset about losing is the Batavia Muckdogs. Batavia was where my son started his professional career. It is where a 26th round draft pick can play his way into getting noticed. Andy led the NY-Penn League in HRs with 14 for mid-June through August. The rest of his team combined had 20. He does not perform at that level in short season and he does not get recognized. No team is going to give much attention to a draft pick given $1,000 signing bonus.
From the 1997 Batavia roster, four players made it to the Show. Andy Dominique, Tom Jacquez, Randy Wolf, and Johnny Estrada. Randy Wolf and Johnny Estrada are the only two that will be remembered. With all due respect, nobody here would no who Andy Dominique except he is my son. I would imagine there may be some UCLA baseball fans who knew Tom Jacquez was, but not from his MLB exploits. Who heard of Gary Burnham. Rusty McNamara, Jeff Terrell, Brian Harris, Joe Cotton, Brett Black or Mark Rutherford. Now this may be the reason why some believe that the any draft pick after 20 is not worthy. But many of those picks that were on the Batavia team were top 10 picks. Estrada was a 17th round pick. Jacquez was a 6th round pick. Wolf was a 2nd rounder. The road to MLB can be long and hard.
Some players develop later in their career, and some never get to that level. But if there was not a short season or rookie level, many of the late round draft picks would not get noticed. Guys like Andy Dominique (26th round), Zach McKinstry (33rd round), and Caleb Ferguson (38th round). And then there is a 62nd round pick who would never have been drafted if not for a family friend with a name of Tommy Lasorda (Mike Piazza).
I am with Garrett Broshuis in that I do not have all the answers (or many of them). But there are answers if reasonable people can sit down and come to a satisfactory resolution that does not eliminate 42 teams. I am not one who empathizes with greedy owners. But this pandemic is going to cost the owners a lot of revenue. But hurting MiLB is not the answer. MLB can pay the players a fair wage, upgrade their facilities, and not eliminate any teams The cost would be minimal, and wealthy owners can certainly handle the cost. But for me, the greed is not just with the owners. The players and their agents also could shoulder some financial responsibility. Does Gerrit Cole really need $324MM? Does Stephen Strasburg really warrant $245MM? Bryce Harper $330MM? Manny Machado $300MM? Rendon or Arenado? Is Mookie Betts really worth $400MM? The most current FA and his agent wants more than the prior year’s. It’s monopoly money. How far do we go ? How long before we get to a billion dollars?
Maybe MLB owners should be required to be partners with the MiLB affiliates. Maybe then they would feel obligated to make sure that their investments are taken care of and that the facilities are worthy of a top notch program. But also, maybe we can expand that so that the players also become partners. Say the highly compensated players set aside a small percentage of their salaries to establish a fund for MiLB The owners would be required to double, triple, quadruple (whatever) that amount. Maybe the agents as well. Each organization can have as many as 7 MiLB affiliates, and maybe they average 30 players per affiliate. 210 players averaging $75,000 totals $15,750,000 in salary. That fund would not need to be highly funded by the players, but they should remember what it was like as a MiLB and fund a fair portion.
The other problem is that MLBPA does not give a rip about MiLB, and will never go for it. They are more concerned about getting more players added to the MLB roster. What is needed is someone to step up and challenge the rest of the players. Also needed is MLB owners who have the liquidity to be able to compete at the MLB level and adequately fund MiLB players. Keep feeding MiLB with a draft and pay them a fair wage. If the owners cannot, eliminate them and not the MiLB affiliates.
Good points, AC. There is greed on both the owner side and the MLBPA side. In my opinion, even more so on the MLBPA side since every player toiled in the minor leagues. The MLBPA seems to cater to the concerns of the top 100 players with less regard for the bottom 800 mlb players, and no regard for the minor league players.
I agree that the minor league pay should be increased, although not to the levels suggested by Broshuis. But what is often ignored is the large guaranteed signing bonuses that are paid to draftees. The average bonus for a first round pick is approximately $4,000,000, the average bonus for a 3rd round pick is about $650,000, the average bonus for a 5th round pick is $350,000, and the avg bonus for rounds 6-10 are about $220,000. Mr. Broshuis seems to ignore these significant bonuses when discussing minor league pay. And even players drafted in the top 10 rounds have only about a 20-30% chance of making any impact in the MLB per baseball America article. https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/how-many-mlb-draftees-make-it-to-the-majors/.
For example, 2010 Dodger draft pick Zack Lee was paid a signing bonus of $5.25 million and ended his one game dodger career with a record of 0-1 and a 13.50 era. The current system is designed to provide immediate compensation to the top draft picks and their agents, at the expense of ongoing base salaries for all MILB players. If you want all milb players to earn a “living wage” , then it may require an adjustment to the upfront bonus system. And if you want all milb players to receive at least $70,000 per year, then expect those slots to be filled primarily with only those players deemed to be likely major leaguers.
Count me in for that meet and drink, Wat!
Definitely – will give you the date as soon as I have it.
Totally agree with Bums about it’s who you play with. My friends are very good, but don’t take it too seriously.
The Pebble Beach leg is already booked, so we are definitely coming.
Pete, thanks for the thoughts. Hope the recovery is going well.
Most of you guys live in less densely areas, so hopefully this hideous disease will not touch you.
Here in the suburbs of London, it’s really getting real. My missus had a friend pass yesterday. He was 47, and healthy.
Interacting with the LADT Family is great medicine.
Stay safe everyone.
Ps – havnt heard from Brooklyn in a while – and he’s at the heart of it.
Hope everything is ok?
Interesting topics and some very interesting comments.
I’m not a fan of the plan. I still believe MLB can afford to reorganize MiLB and increase pay to an appropriate level without eliminating this many teams. Not that I don’t think there should be some teams eliminated. But I would still describe this as a machete being used where a scalpel is appropriate.
That said, what is truly sad is that the plan would take effect in 2021 even though it doesn’t appear there will be a minor league season in 2020. This would mean fans in cities like Chattanooga and Ogden have already seen their final game in their respective cities. There will be no proper farewell.
What I heard on MLB.Radio today was that many of the contracted teams will go to MLB Funded Independent League. I think there is a lot more to the plan….
The Red Sox got a slap on the wrist! I have a hard time believing they “only” cheated in the regular season and not in the postseason.
My prayers go out to Vin Scully and his family for a speedy recovery
As of tonight (Saturday) Vinnie says he’s home and resting comfortably. Happy to hear that. You certainly don’t want to go to a hospital these days if you don’t have to.
All is well Watford. Thanks for thinking about me, and for your concern.
Actually, I now live in Western Long Island in NY (Rockville Centre) about a 30-45 minute drive to Brooklyn, so technically I’m not in the heart of it, but close enough.
Don’t post as much as I used to. My last post was in the previous thread on March 17.
Excuse me, that last post by me was on April 17.