What Can the Dodgers Expect From Their Existing Bullpen?

Posted By on November 23, 2019

If in response to the above question, you said “Not Much!” I will say you may or may not be right. See, indecision may or may not be part of my problem, and no one knows what a bullpen guy will do from year-to-year, but I will say that you cannot look at the past and predict what a bullpen pitcher will do in the future. You can guess… even make an educated guess, but it’s still a guess. For example, last year, the Mets Traded for Edwin Diaz and got Edwina Diaz, instead. Next year, he could be back to Edwin… or not!

First of all, I am not predicting anything because I really don’t know. It is not unusual for a pitcher to get battered for years and suddenly and unexpectedly, just “get it.” It’s more likely that they don’t, but it is not out of the realm of probability that JT Chargois, Scott Alexander, Dylan Floro, Caleb Ferguson, Joe Kelly, Yimi Garcia, Dennis Santana and/or Kenley Jansen suddenly discover or re-discover how to pitch effectively. Even Victor Gonzalez, Josh Sborz and Mitch White can fall into that category.

Again, for those of you who like to put words in my mouth, I am not saying it will happen, but I will say that it is likely 3 or 4 of those pitchers surprise you and me (at least you). You can’t always predict who it will be, so with plenty of depth in the bullpen you have a better chance. THAT is Andrew Friedman’s M.O. By the way, AF’s contract was just extended. His last one was for 5-years $35 million. Could this be 10 Years/$100 Million? I don’t know…

If I had to guess, I would guess (not predict) the following:

  • Kenley Jansen regains some of his mojo and is effective as the “co-closer.” I don’t know who the other closer is at this moment.
  • Yimi Garcia was unhittable except for HR balls in 2019. His other peripherals were “eye-popping.” It would not surprise me in the least that he has a great season. I am talking “set up man.”
  • Joe Kelly started horribly in 2019, the righted the ship for some time as the Dodgers “protected him.” I was not a fan of the signing, but it would not be a surprise to me if he becomes “Machine Gun Kelly” in one of his three years with the Dodgers.
  • JT Chargois is a guy who could be what he is or become something he isn’t, by suddenly developing a new “grip” or some other small change.

Again, I am not predicting it, but the odds are 3 or 4 of the relievers I mentioned earlier, step up in 2020. Maybe none do, but I think those odds are even longer. I have high hopes that Pedro Baez will continue to pitch at a high level. I would love to see Tony Gonsolin in the bullpen as the RH Andrew Miller.

Have Dennis Santana, Mitch White, and Caleb Ferguson accepted that they are not starters? I think Ferguson and Santana have. If so, good things could happen to them all. Scott Alexander and Dylan Floro have been very good at times. It doesn’t mean that they will again, but it also doesn’t mean that they won’t.

Every year, the writers discuss “Who Won the Off-Season” and generally, the winners are not the teams who make it to the World Series. A few years ago the writers were ga-ga over LaRussa and Stewart for what they did with the D-Bags (Greinke, et al). Now they are long gone and a move that their replacements did right after they left (Segura, Curtis, and Haniger for Marte and Walker) and was rated a win for the Mariners, but ultimately it was really a great move for the Backs.

Kenta Maeda, Ross Stripling, and/or Joc Pederson should net a very good closer (potential closer) It might be a three-way deal, but it’s doable. I think that just naturally, several Dodger relievers will have bounce-back years… and Yimi Garcia is at the Top of the List as the ball will allegedly be “less juiced.”

At any rate, most fans are looking at last year’s version of any player. If it was a good year, they want him… and if a Dodger player has a down season they want to trade him. Relievers are a lot like buying stocks. If you buy a stock and then sell it because it underperformed, odds are, you don’t make money in the stock market. Relievers are of that ilk. Buy and hold for a while… you might be surprised. That is why I am not as worried about the Dodger bullpen as the rest of you. While I am always for improving it and would try and make a trade or two, I do not see it as a clear need. Other players tend to step up and fill-in.

Are you confident that Brett de Geus cannot be part of the pen this year? Are you positive that Gerardo Carrillo will not be ready? Could Jo Jo Gray be a piece? The farm is loaded with arms and I will give you that most are not ready, but this off-season, someone could have “flipped the switch”… we just don’t know who… yet!

Rants and Raves

  • Of course, Gerrit Cole is likely a “generational talent” but if someone gives him 8 years and $320 Million, it won’t be the Dodgers. Anthony Rendon is not a generational talent but will command big money. The Rockies felt they had to pay their All-Star 3B and it’s a huge boat anchor on the organization. I could see him asking for a trade…
  • It has been suggested that Anthony Rendon might take a contract lessor in years, but higher in AAV. So, if you were Anthony and the Dodgers offered you 4 years/$160 Million ($40 Million AAV) and the Rangers offer 7 years/$225 Million, you would take the Dodgers offer because it is a higher AAV? It’s “ONLY” $65 Million right? It’s only Real money!
  • Sometimes you find relievers who you trade for and turn them into starters. How did it work out with Curt Schilling? Other times, you find a starter and convert him to a reliever, like Andrew Miller.
  • I guess I would be in favor of taking a run at Zach Wheler at 5 years/$100 million. It’s a risk, but a worthy one. I think he still has some upside. To me, $180 Million to Donaldson and Wheeler is better than $450 Million to Cole and Rendon, but I’m not a mathematical genius and 5 out of 4 people struggle with math.
  • I would not trade Alex Verdugo for Corey Kluber, as suggested by Ken Gurnick. Sometimes you have to know somebody and read between the lines. I think Ken is miffed because of the Dodgers and Alex not disclosing the “exact” injury and I can see Alex and Ken not being “fast friends.” That’s all I’ll say about that. Kluber is very good when he is very good, but after one good playoff in 2016, he was not good in 17 and 18 and there was talk in Cleveland that his stuff was in decline. Maybe a year off helped and if he could be great just in 2020, I would trade Joc and a pitcher not named May, Gonsolin, or Gray for him. I would trade Pederson and Maeda (or Stripling) or stand pat.
  • I am not sold on Will Smith’s offensive upside. His defense is great, but 2020 will tell us how much the juiced ball improved his performance. I also worry about the effect the juiced ball had on Lux. We saw the effect of the non-juiced ball on Smith in the playoffs with “warning-track power.”
  • It has been reported that the Dodgers are pursuing Josh Donaldson and at first blush, he did not fit my criteria. After all, he turns 34 next month and spent much of 2017 and 2018 injured. He also is a bit of an “in-your-face” guy who initially can ruffle some feathers with his no-nonsense, straight-talk. After thinking about it… maybe that is exactly what the relaxed, fun-loving Dodgers need. Anthony Rendon is another laid-back kind of guy, but maybe JD is just what the Doctor ordered. Sometimes those guys don’t even have to play but 1 at-bat every 5 games to be effective.

He ruffled some feathers in the ATL but his teammates loved him in the end. Hopefully, the Braves have spent too much on the bullpen to get him back. 3 years/$80 million sounds just about right.

Photo Credit: Jayne Kamin-Oncea/Getty Images

This article has 53 Comments

  2. What can the Dodgers expect from their existing bullpen?

    Uncertainty and perhaps inconsistency. But alas, that’s what you can expect from most bullpens

  3. The only way Gerrit Cole gets 8 years and $320 million is on another planet somewhere in the multiverse, but not in this reality. What’s his real value? Probably something over $200 million over seven years. I keep wondering when the salary structure collapses and at some point it has to … maybe it’s already beginning when some bean counter at MLB decides they need to eliminate 42 minor league teams to save money.

    I read that the Dodgers like Donaldson because they think maybe he can bring a Gibson like intensity to the clubhouse. I agree Mark, that might not be a bad thing. Rendon seems like a non emotional guy, who is just a great hitter and fielder, certainly not an in your face type. Plus he’s going to be more costly and the Dodgers need to add pitching.

    I honestly don’t get the Kluber stuff. Expecting a big bounce back year? Based on what? Ken Gurnick must see something that I’m not seeing. Seems like better pitchers out there.

    As to the juiced ball, what’s the distance difference, 10 feet? So how many of Will Smith’s hits just cleared the wall? Should be an easy calculation. Friedman loves his defense and interaction with the pitchers. Plus it’s logical to expect him to get stronger and improve as a hitter so I’m guessing he produces at reasonable clip. You mentioned Gavin Lux yesterday, but he’s really a line drive hitter, who has some power. He’s added some serious muscle, which is aiding the power. So I think he hits well.

    The Dodgers definitely need a healthy Alex Verdugo. I thought his injury was related to some strain or pull. When he was working his way back, he tweaked his back. Dodgers not exactly forthcoming on injuries … or Friedman’s contract signing, which is kinda weird and drives the press nuts. The Dodgers are really into the secret squirrel stuff. How much of this stuff out there is designed to mislead other teams as to what the Dodgers real pursuits are?

    Bullpen wow. Pretty much a crapshoot. Cross your fingers and throw the dart. I’m sure the Dodgers will have an ample supply of potential relievers and hope a couple work out. Maeda might being an interesting trade piece to help add to the bullpen. Fixing Joe Kelly is a must. That could be a huge difference maker. His stuff is off the charts. Maybe Jansen bounces back. He was dealing with he heart surgery last winter. Seems willing to change now.

    Gonsolin could be play up in the bullpen so I think you’re definitely right on him. Could be a future closer.

    LaRussa and Stewart messed up not only the Diamondbacks, but the Dodgers, who pretty much had the Zack Greinke extension wrapped up. If those two brilliant baseball types don’t offer that ridiculous contract, Greinke probably helps the Dodgers win a World Series and prevents all the awful free agent signings (Kazmir and company that followed).

    Excellent column this morning Mark.

    1. Kluber bounce back is very likely as his original injury was a broken arm, not an elbow or shoulder issue, the during a rehab assignment he strained his oblique and the team shut him down. If the Indians were concerned with his arm they would not have exercised his $17.5M option for 2020 — they could have let him walk and saved a heap of money. If Dodgers can acquire Kluber for a reasonable package of players (Taylor, Beaty, Estevez?) then they should add him.

  4. I’ve long said that this squad needs a Gibson-type guy to go along with the quiet leadership of JT. Donaldson seems to be that kind of guy so I wouldn’t mind having him here. I think we missed Verdugo’s personality on the field in the playoffs more than we realized. Sometimes you need someone to kick things into high gear.

    Happy birthday to:
    JT
    Strip
    Lux

    Any of you math wizards feel like calculating the odds that 3 guys on a 25-man roster share the same birthday?

  5. The elephant in the room in Kenley. His numbers have trended in the wrong direction for two years now coinciding with his heart problems that he experienced in Colorado and magnified by the juiced ball. Can we count on him getting some of it back? I think he’ll take a step forward, a full year removed from heart surgery and a normal offseason, but I also think his best days are behind him.

    The enigma is Kelly, routinely throwing 99 gas with wicked movement, but is somehow very hittable. They changed him last year, not necessarily for the better. Is he going to all the sudden turn the corner and become reliable?

    El Gasolino was probably our best bullpen piece last year. He routinely faced the top and middle of the order in close and late situations. Has a penchant for choking when heat is on, but has gotten a little better each year.

    The wild card. Gonsolin was a closer in college and closed games before converting to a starting pitcher. His velo was down all year and was still very effective. There’s a good chance he can handle closing duties as early as next year especially if Jansen falters.

    Iron Mike aka Yimi Garcia. His peripherals are off the charts, but loves to pipe fastballs middle middle. The juiced ball helped him give up big flies at a legendary rate. But, take out those gopher balls and he was lights out. Sounds a lot like Josh Fields.

    If you can add a couple of reliable back-end guys to this core, you might have the league’s best bullpen. Unfortunately AF’s MO is grab incomplete pitchers with one plus attribute and get by on trying to put them in a situation where they can succeed. This doesn’t work in the Post-Season we have learned. It doesn’t seem Andrew has learned though, already whiffing on Will Smith.

    Verdugo and Ruiz, MT’s two favorite guys are the guys that AF will trade if they can improve other areas. It seems that Dugy might just be in the dog house after not coming back from injury last year. I like him, he’s a solid player that does a lot of things well. But, he has a long history of having an attitude problem while coming up in the minors. He also seemed to start off really hot every year, looking very much like a phenom. But, somehow by the end of the year, his stats looked more like a solid player. Will he develop power like MT thinks? Hard to say since he finished on pace for 20 homers in a season where 20 is the new 15 and was aided by the juiciest ball of them all.

    Ruiz seems to be in every trade rumor and rightfully so. Another Verdugo type, he makes a lot of contact and doesn’t strike out a lot. He has a whopping 29 homers in 5 minor league seasons and has never been good at throwing out baserunners. Going into his age 21 season, he’s still young, but will also use a second option next year. I think internally Conner Wong has already passed him up on the depth chart.

    1. 1. Yadier Molina hit 15 HR is 7 Minor League Seasons. Did that mean anything?

      2. Wong is not even in the Top 100 MLB prospects, much less ahead of Ruiz.

      3. There is a pretty good chance we see Kay Bear in LA THIS year.

      4. Ruiz and Verdugo are not even close to my favorite guys. I am just identifying talent.

      1. 1 Yadier Molina is NOT a great hitter. His first year where his OPS+ was over 100 (average) was when he was 28. He was a major league catcher because he was great defensively and threw out runners at a 40 – 50 % clip in his three years in the minors before being promoted. Ruiz is NOT Monlina anymore than Verdugo is Gwynn.

        2 Sorry Mark, but there’s tons of guys who make the top 100 lists that don’t work out, and plenty that don’t make it that do. Ruiz was ahead of Smith and now he’s trade bait.

        3 You said that last year

        4 You’re lying.

        1. It is ok to disagree with someone’s opinions and comments, but in a respectable manner. Calling a person a liar is not respectable.

  6. If Wong has already passed up Ruiz on the depth chart, how come everyone is asking for Ruiz in trades and we don’t hear Wong’s name mentioned? Or are you saying we’ve figured it out but the other 29 teams don’t realize it yet?

    1. I hear Ruiz being offered a lot, but no one biting. That’s why. Wong is improving, Ruiz is regressing, that’s why. After 5 years in the minors, Ruiz still can’t throw guys out, that’s why. In three minor league seasons Conner’s slash of .275 .342 .510 .852 looks better than Ruiz’s 5 years and slash .299 .351 .420 .772, that’s why. Even Ray Charles can see that Ruiz is trending in the Wong direction.

      Conner Wong at Tulsa last year – .349 .393 .604 .997
      Keibert Ruiz at Tulsa last year – .254 .329 .330 .659

      What do you see that I don’t?

      1. I guess you have some inside information we don’t.. maybe AF’s phone #.

        I heard Ruiz was mentioned (MENTIONED by who) in a trade for Vasquez. Who else?

        you are very knowledgeable, but you sometimes come off as a fool. You try and cherry-pick words and stats. Wong hit .245 in RC which is a hitters league and came to Tulsa, which is more hitter neutral and in 150 AB’s put up those numbers. He suddenly got a lot better in a higher league?

        Why did you fail to mention that Ruiz hit .254 in AA and then moved to AAA where he did this: .316/.474/.420/.772.

        Both are small samplings and mean very little. I like both players and have watched them both extensively. It’s obvious to me that you haven’t…

        FYI: I have had multiple (more than 6) people ask me to ban you from the board. I would guess your response will determine your fate.

      2. After 5 years in the minors Ruiz is still only 21, two years younger than Wong.
        You’re certainly entitled to your opinion 59 and you may be proven correct. Time will tell but I would bet on Keibert having the better career.

  7. What Can the Dodgers Expect From Their Existing Bullpen?

    More of the same thing we’ve gotten before. None are proven talents except Jansen, and his troubles are probably age related. He’s wearing down just like CK.

    Mark’s argument about BP’s not being consistent is probably based on the choices that most clubs make, picking their BP on whatever money is left over. Do teams usually cherrypick their BP’s? Now there’s a novel thought. Maybe you get a few arms that have shown real consistency and mix in some not so consistent. Is Joe Kelly a proven reliever? Not in my book. He had a few good games in 1 WS and the rest of his history is disregarded. I’m not buying Mark’s pov regarding BP’s. It’s misconceived.

    Kluber has several years of stellar pitching. 2 Cy Young’s and 3 All Star picks. 2017 he won the CY and was an allstar and 2018 3rd in CY voting and an allstar. Have you seen his record, Mark? You’d have to be crazy to disregard that and not make serious enquiries into his availability. He’s not a FA any longer so it would have to be a trade situation. Gurnick’s ‘Verdugo for Kluber’ trade idea seems silly. Any trade for Verdugo seems silly before the team has seen him play for a solid season. His unfortunate injury really derailed a strong rookie season for him.

    We all saw a big dropoff in Will Smith towards the end of the season and an increase in HR’s throughout the team. Certainly Smith’s dropoff wasn’t due to the juiced balls being taken away. But, next season, without them………I also wonder. If he is a real hitter, it should make little difference. The same with Lux. Both are still unproven in the big leauges. They may be fine but we shall be made to wait and see.

    I’m not for the Donaldson type. I hated Kent when he was with both the Giants and the Dodgers. Maybe hate is too strong a word, but I didn’t care for his personality at all. Obnoxious people are just obnoxious. You want great teammates in all circumstances. A happy locker room is the best kind. Pros are there to win.

  8. “At any rate, most fans are looking at last year’s version of any player. If it was a good year, they want him… and if a Dodger player has a down season they want to trade him.”

    That’s not what I do, I look at career stats.

    “The farm is loaded with arms and I will give you that most are not ready, but this off-season, someone could have “flipped the switch”… we just don’t know who… yet!”

    I don’t operate like that, on hope. I look at how many reliable relievers the Dodgers have and then I would plug the holes, first through free agency and then if needed through trades.

    “I am not sold on Will Smith’s offensive upside. His defense is great, but 2020 will tell us how much the juiced ball improved his performance. I also worry about the effect the juiced ball had on Lux. We saw the effect of the non-juiced ball on Smith in the playoffs with warning-track power. ”

    Has anyone gathered evidence on this subject? Has anyone credible said that 2019 regular season was played with a juiced ball but not the playoffs and 2020 won’t have a juiced ball?

    1. Eric,

      A lot of GM’s have lost their jobs operating under those premises.

      That’s how they did it in the old days.

    1. Thanks for the link Mark and I hope you are feeling better. Fevers are a bitch and they drain me big time whenever I get them.

        1. If feistiness is an indication of health, I would say you are definitely back to normal. Glad you’re feeling better.

          1. I really had a quick recovery. 104 fever Thursday to “went shopping” a bit today. I feel great… just a little bit weak. I’ll be back at work Monday.

  10. Think about this for a bit:

    Up until a couple of weeks ago, Houston was the example of a model organization. Boston crashed and burned long ago. The Cubs are in a disarray and at a crossroads. As soon as Houston is disgraced OFFICIALLY… and they will be, the Dodgers and Yankees will be back at the top.

    Cashman and Friedman run the best organizations and everyone wants to be like them. Knowing the Astros felt they had to cheat to beat us, says it all.

    Well, TB is there too, with financial limitations (Freidman trained them) and Boston is also now being run by an AF Clone. Jeff Luhnow could go from genius to banned from baseball. In my book, that’s as bad as gambling.

  11. This is my 2020 dream pitching staff.

    Starters
    Cole
    Strasburg
    Buehler
    Kershaw
    May

    Relievers
    Giles or Lugo closer
    Pomeranz
    Harris
    Clippard
    Gonsolin
    Baez
    Urias
    Have to include Jansen because of his contract.

    I think Kelly’s contract is movable.

    I can dream.

  12. I remember when Kirk Gibson came over to the Dodgers. There was a story that a couple of young guys decided to put eye-black all over the inside of Gibson’s cap. To put it mildly, Gibbie was not pleased. As I recall, he told the culprits that he was there to win a pennant and not to f@#$ around. The rest, as they say is history.

    1. I vaguely recall reading or hearing on radio or tv that he called them a bunch of losers also. Do not know if that was true or not.

  13. Not sure I would want to live and work with a guy with that attitude for most of the year. Sounds like a douche to be honest. If you are going to work with a bunch of young men, you expect certain actions and attitudes from them regardless if you are of a like mind.

    Not really sure that the Astros cheated to be more like the Dodgers.

    In what way? LA has won nothing. The Astros cheating stems from greed, and kind of the exact opposite of what the Dodgers have done…..build a good team while competing every year possible. The Astros have shown a “win at all costs” approach. Whether that is picking up verlander, Cole, Grienke……or flat out cheating. They pushed all their chips in. That is not even close to the Dodgers approach in the last few years. LA say on their hands last year when everyone could see they needed a few pieces more.

    As to the bullpen……it wasn’t good last year. Kelly was a disaster signing for what he is. Basically, a guy that parlayed a few good weeks in the playoffs into a quite generous contract. Kind of like Castellanos but now he is the flavor of the month.

    The bullpen needs a makeover. There is not a single guy in it that scream confidence when they come out of the gate with 2 on in a tie game in the 8th. Just nobody.

    The problem is that there hasn’t been that guy for years.

    Morrow was good but was never a long term plan with his history and the Cubs bought it.

    Hopefully AF has something in mind outside of the normal……stay the course. The “course” has crashed us into an iceberg for the past few years. Whether that was a lack of reliable relievers and/or starters that had to work too long or not in their comfort roles.

    Outside of the bullpen, LA needs a RH bat and a starter as well. I’d say not way to Cole. There is really only 2-3 teams that will be seriously in on him for that money, and I hope LA isn’t one. Too much in years and money for a pitcher at his age. Ill wish like hell he was on the roster when the playoffs come around I am sure but its just not a good investment.

    Rendon is though. Solid on both sides of the ball. All accounts are he is a good teammate as well. Rendon changes the whole complex of the offense. I wouldn’t mind at all if they paid him that money.

  14. If the Dodgers sign Renden I say trade Muncy.

    If the Dodgers trade for Lindor they would have awesome up-the-middle defense with Smith, Lindor, Lux, and Bellinger. It would also push Seager to third and Turner to first and again, I would trade Muncy.

    Both scenarios would have Turner at first for one year and then Bellinger might have to move back to first unless Turner is re-signed.

    If the Dodgers do not sign Cole then they might decide that Kluber would be a good idea. They still would need a reliever and Hand would be a great lefty co-closer.

    So, what would it take to get Kluber, Lindor, and Hand from Cleveland? I’ve already suggested trading Muncy. I would add Verdugo with his health as questionable as Kluber’s. Baez would replace Hand quantity wise. Taylor would replace Lindor defensively. So, again, what would it take to get Kluber, Lindor, and Hand?

    SS Lindor
    3B Seager
    1B Turner
    CF Bellinger
    LF Pollock
    RF Pederson
    C Smith
    2B Lux

    Buehler, Kershaw, Kluber, Urias, May,

    Jansen, Hand, Diaz, Pomeranz, …

    1. I don’t think that team is any better. Maybe worse. If Verdugo were as big of an injury risk as Kluber why would CLEV want him. He’s not!

      1. It would add more left right balance and improve defense. Is it a better team though? I don’t know. I’m just playing with names that have been tossed around this off season. I’m okay with the team as it is, maybe sign Pomeranz.

    2. For the umpteenth time, forget Lindor — it makes zero sense for the Dodgers to give up the players the Indians would accept for Lindor. Over the last two seasons Muncy’s weighted runs created (wRC+) is 146 compared to Lindor’s 123, a 23 percentage point difference. How does that make the Dodgers better? Why would you want to trade Verdugo who is a much better, younger, and healthier player than Pollock? For the right deal I would like to see Kluber as a Dodger; ditto Hand, but I don’t see the Indians trading an effective closer who is under a very team friendly contract.

    2. I am confident that Friedman will not acquire a player who will be a clubhouse problem. He has had to make a number of player moves over the last couple of years to divest the team of those types of players, and he will not make the mistake of adding another.

    3. It’s true that almost any kind of a personality can be adapted to in sports. Look at the Warriors and Draymond Green!

      Having said that, I can’t see the Dodgers spending the $$ signing Donaldson and blocking younger players from coming up. At his age, and the Dodger M.O. for signing rentals at bargain prices (David Freese), he simply doesn’t fit. He would not be the future and this team is indeed looking at its future. Rendon at 4 years makes the most sense, if Rendon leaves the Nats. If not Rendon, then go after Cole and Ryu. This is all predicated on the assumption that the Dodgers want to make a splash of some sort. Even that assumption could be questioned given their AF history after letting Grienke go.

      1. Friedman would have been a Certified Dumb Ass had he upped Stewart and La Russa who lost their jobs over it.

        It’s fiction that Rendon will sign for4 years. Total fantasy!

  16. Lindor is a Top 5 talent in both leagues. He flat out makes the team better. That is crazy to say he doesn’t.

    Of course, the price is the issue.

    Pirates are said to be willing to trade Josh Bell. No idea what he would cost but I certainly would not mind seeing him in LA

    It is extremely frustrating to have AJ for another 4 years, I still can’t believe the AF gave him 5 years. A half a season in and people were already talking about how much to eat to trade him off. That isn’t just fickle fans crying. He is a total albatross at this point. The money isn’t all that limiting, but the spot and need to have him out there because of the money. AF really should sub the free agent signing out to someone else on staff. Not exactly his strong suit.

    1. what stats do you have to back up your statement about Lindor? Look, he is a very good player, it isn’t that I would not like to have Lindor on the Dodgers, but not at the cost of Muncy and others. Bell is a DH playing in the NL — his defense is atrocious.

      1. 3B is the spot the Dodgers are thinking about for the future. Turner will have to be moved from there soon as his fielding is not what it once was. He’s aging like many of us. Rendon should be the first choice on AF’s lips as he gives us the best bang for the buck offensively and defensively at 3B. He completes the infield puzzle in the best possible way for the future. Seager doesn’t want to play 3B so moving our pieces around the board may not be the best idea. If by some miracle, the Dodgers traded out Seager ++ for Lindor and Kluber, our infield might be the best in the majors and one of the great needs of starting pitching will be filled. Turner will probably not be a starter in 2021. DH? This team can make moves to insure its bright future. Let’s hope AF has the cojones to pull off some major moves. So far, he has not and has relied on the farm to supply the talent.

        1. …and has won the most games in baseball and been to World Series twice in 5 years.

          It takes more cojones not to pull off some major moves… if they are dumb.

    2. Lindor is a Top 5 talent in both leagues? How about even Top 10?

      by WAR? No, not TOP 10
      by DWAR? Zip
      by OWAR? Nope
      by BA? Nope
      by OB%? Nope
      by Slugging %? Zilch
      by OPS? Nada
      by Runs? Zero
      by Hits? Never
      by HR? Nope
      by Triples? Not
      by Doubles? Yes, he is 10th. Seager was 4th in his worst year.
      by Runs created? Nope
      I could keep going, but Lindor is not a TOP 5 or TOP 10 or maybe a TOP 20 Talent, and Bell doesn’t even warrant a response.

      1. He’s only been an allstar for the last 4 years, and a GG twice, Mark. He’s got more HR’s, Doubles, base hits, BB’s in the last 5 years than Corey. I’m not trying to demean Corey by any stretch, but Lindor is a top talent at SS, offensively and defensively. If I were Cleveland, I wouldn’t give him up.

        1. Compare Lindor to Seager in the years that both were regulars using baseball reference OPS+, and / or FanGraphs wRC+ and you will see that head to head Seager is the superior offensive player, and Lindor is the better defender. Forget Lindor, sign Seager to an extension, and use trade assets to improve areas of the team that need to be improved which isn’t shortstop.

          1. I don’t really have a horse in this race, but quite frankly, I think you are wrong about Lindor. Consistency at the top of his game, being both an allstar and gold glover, having more power than Corey, makes him fit this team very well. Seager’s stats cannot be read with any certainty except he is not a GG, has poor bat discipline, can hit doubles, but Lindor has done this even better!, and doesn’t get walks very often. He’s also not injury prone like Corey. We have more pressing needs than replacing Seager so I would be happy if Corey gets a bounce back year next season.

        2. I’m not saying he’s a chump, he’s one of the Top SS’s in baseball… and so is Seager.

          Seager was an All-Star and Silver Slugger in his first two seasons before missing most of the next with two surgeries and then rehabbing last year. His WAR per AB is almost identical to Lindors… even after a season that was bad for him.

          And,,, he’s younger than Lindor. I would love to have Lindor, but the Dodgers have other needs and why give up players for someone who ultimately may not be better than Corey?

          Cleveland will only give him up if you overpay dramatically!

  17. This was written right after the season in 2018:

    Did Corey Kluber and Cody Allen lose velocity in 2018?

    Hey, Hoynsie: There appears to have been a dramatic drop in velocity this year for some of the Tribe’s pitchers, including Corey Kluber and Cody Allen, causing them to rely more on other pitches. I don’t know the cause, but it’s a troubling trend. — Bill Williams, Windsor, Conn.

    Hey, Bill: Kluber, according to Statcast, threw his sinker or two-seam fastball more than any of his other pitches in 2018. He averaged 92 mph with it. In the first game of the season on March 29, he averaged 91.6 mph with the sinker. In his start against the Astros in the ALDS on Oct. 5, he averaged 91.5 mph with his two-seamer.

    Over the previous three years here is the average velocity of Kluber’s sinker: 92.5 mph in 2017, 93.2 mph in 2016 and 93.5 mph in 2015.

    Allen throws a four-seam fastball and a curveball. He threw the four-seamer 60.3 percent of the time in 2018. In his first appearance of the year on March 31, he averaged 93.9 mph with it. In Game 3 of the ALDS, the Tribe’s last game of the year, he averaged 93.9 mph with his fastball.

    Over the last three years, Allen’s four-seamer averaged 94.3 mph in 2017, 94.8 mph in 2016 and 95.5 mph in 2015.

    While statcast shows Kluber and Allen’s velocity was steady in 2018, compared to past years there has been a drop. These are two durable, dependable pitchers who have carried a big load in their careers for the Indians. The decline, no matter how slight, can probably be traced to their workload and availability.

    Of course, Cody Allen crashed and burned and Kluber has pitched badly in what little time he has pitched since then.

  18. After the 2016 season, MLB Rated the TOP 10 SS:

    https://www.mlb.com/news/corey-seager-leads-top-10-shortstops-for-2017-c214194390

    Seager was #1, Lindorwas #2.

    In 2018, here was the rankings:

    https://ngbaseball.com/2018-positional-rankings-shortstops-28a252ef017c

    Correa was 1
    Seager was 2
    Lindor was 3

    Going into 2018, the year Corey was injured, he was clearly the better All-Round SS. Then he missed 2018 with injury and 2019 was not up to par, but it wasn’t bad. I would no be surprised to see him hit .10/.370/35 HR next year.

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