2025 and Beyond – The Dodgers New 6-Man Rotation

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1. The Dodgers will only shop in the deep end of the pool with players first with character and then skills. It’s the AF way of doing business. I would like them to sign a couple of quality pitchers, one named Snell as they were interested at the trading deadline. I know we have injured pitchers coming back like Gonsolin and May but how will they perform after their injuries is anyone’s guess, Is Miller still a head case or has he seen a shrink in the off season? You NEVER NEVER have enough pitching.

2. I agree that signing Miggy means not much room for Lux. I am also thinking that Kike will not be resigned, We have Edman now. Maybe we can sign him back at trade deadline after he bats .220 on his new team. As for Barnes, I guess he was cheap enough and they are not ready to turn to any ‘kids’ for backup. But WOW, he didn’t have 1 AB in playoffs

3. BlakeSnell has had one TJ and will be 32 next season. I would be down with a 2-3 year deal, and in a 6-man rotation, he might stay healthy.

   Kike was the heart and soul of the Dodgers this year, and I cannot see them letting him walk. Kike will be 34 next year and should retire as a Dodger. He got his vision fixed and is a very useful player. I can see him signing a two-year $10 Million deal.

   Many thought the Dodgers did not have enough pitching this year, but it turns out they had just enough!

   I really think May goes to the bullpen. I think we have enough pitching right now, but we could use another LHP.

   If the Dodger really wanted Skubal or Crochet, they have the prospect capital to get them, but would have to include Rushing and DePaula!

4. You forget Wrobleski, Mark. I have him slightly above Casparius on the SP depth chart, although Casparius could be a weapon in the bullpen.

   1. I think both Wrobs and Casparius are bullpen pieces that could be pressed into starting.

5. Right now without signing any free agents, what does the lineup look like?

   1B Freeman
   2B Lux
   3B Munchy
   SS Edman
   LF Pages
   CF Outman
   RF Betts
   DH Ohtani

   Even if they sign no free agents, the lineup doesn’t look that bad.

   Bench are Taylor Rojas, Barnes

   1. This bench looks pretty thin to me. A good chance that none of those guys could even hit .235 next year. I wouldn’t count on an aging Rojas to duplicate this years defense or offense

   2. I would move Edman to CF, Outman to backup OF, Rojas to SS, CT backup infielder

   3. I doubt that the Tigers would deal Skubal. Would love to have him, but Detroit finished ’24 strong and should not be selling.
      But the White Sox have to sell–and the Dodgers should be in on Crochet, an ace-potential lefty with Kershaw approaching retirement. And I would include DePaula if necessary.
      I’m not eager to deal him, but I see two reasons to dispatch DePaula.
      First, he’s still young and really hasn’t proven himself against stronger competition. Second, it seems that he profiles best as a DH, with so-so OF skills. Rushing, in contrast, can play C, 1B or LF. So I’d keep Rushing and deal DePaula. (Rushing, I think, could eventually succeed Freddie at 1B. I hope he catches well enough that Will could be moved to 3B–but I have my doubts.)
      I hope Buehler receives and accepts QO. But he might insist on more guaranteed $$$ over more years. Remember: Tyler Anderson turned down the QO and accepted a lower AAV over three years with the Angels.
      One reason I like Crochet is that trades are simply more fun than a FA deal. The Dodgers are so loaded that guys like Outman languish in OKC. (I’m sure De Luca was glad he was traded.)
      But I wouldn’t object if the Dodgers sign Fried or Manaea to fill the lefty need.

      1. In addition to Crochet, obvious trade targets include Jesus Luzardo and Devin Williams.
         How about position players?
         If the Dodgers pass on Adames, would they consider targeting a young SS who has already proven himself in the majors?
         The Rockies, like the White Sox, may need to deal quality for quantity. Could they be persuaded to deal Ezequiel Tovar? He’s just 23 and earned the Gold Glove. Batted .268 with 26 bombs. Not a great on-base guy–but he’d be batting at the bottom of the order. Sort of a poor man’s Adames–but six years younger, with a gold glove.
         Imagine young, rangy Tovar paired with Mookie at the keystone. Tovar would upgrade the team D, making every pitcher better and taking a bit of pressure off Max and Mookie.
         Interesting thought, no? He would cost a bundle, because the Rockies signed him to a $63-million extension over 7 years. But that contract might be another enticement for the LA brass.
         What would it take to add a premium 23-year-old SS to the aging Dodgers?

         1. Just for grins, imagine that the Dodgers decide to pass on Adames, bring back Teo and swing a deal for Tovar to get younger.

            Shohei DH
            Mookie 2B
            Freddie 1B
            Teo LF
            Max 3B
            Smith C
            Pages RF
            Tovar SS
            Edman CF

            Bench: Rojas, Barnes, Rushing, Taylor. (I’m figuring that Lux and Outman will be traded.)

            Again, Tovar is 12 years younger than Rojas, has a lot more power and now has a gold glove. He’ll cost plenty in prospect capital, but his salary –$63m over 7 years, an AAV of $9–would be fraction of what Adames (who is 6 years older) would command.
            Certainly unlikely…. but not devoid of logic.

   4. And maybe Rushing as the final bench piece.

6. Signing another batter does not seem to be the most important thing, the pitching staff is where there are several unknowns, and you have already seen how difficult this season was, I hope they do not repeat the mistake of trusting and reinforce the pitching.

   1. How is that a mistake?

      They won the World Series!

      The Dodgers had a plethora of injuries this year. A 6-man rotation could cause less stress on the arms. If they re-sign Buehler, they could be set, unless they want to trade DePaula, Rushing, Miller, Knack, and Gonsolin for Shubal. Ithink that is what it would take to get him, but this could be the rotation:

      1. Skubal
      2. Glasnow
      3. Yamamoto
      4. Ohtani
      5. Buehler
      6. Kershaw

      Two bookend lefties and 4-RHP.

      But, they will sign anothet batter… even if it is just Teo!

   2. When you sign a batter, you also sign a fielder.
      A gold glover like Tovar at SS would improve every pitcher.

7. i just don’t see outman in the outfield picture. like James, but i don’t think he’s ever going to be a big time player with the dodgers. Teo in left, edman in center, pages in right, adames at ss. i agree on kike,make him a dodger for the rest of his career. dump taylor. barnes is who he is. i can’t see rojas hitting next year like 2024. got to have another good hitter in there somewhere. heck, instead of spending a fortune on soto, sign Anthony S . from the orioles, and teo! trade outman and or pages. the fun continues!

   1. Where is Mookie?!?!

      1. Second base.

   2. Dodgerdad I totally agree. I see it the same way. I am not worried about pitching so much unless everyone’s arms fall off again.

   3. So your plan is to sign three top FAs: Teo, Adames and Santander.
      I think it’s either Teo or Santander, not both.
      And probably just one of the three… but who knows?
      At any rate, I hope the brass keeps enough jobs open so younger talent like Pages, Rushing and Outman have an opportunity to prove themselves.
      Let’s not forget that Outman is just a sophomore jinx removed from a 3rd place finish in ROY voting, with a .790 OPS and excellent glove work in CF. The ’23 Outman outplayed the ’24 Pages by a wide margin. (With Outman batting left and Pages batting right, they could form a platoon.)
      And let’s see what Rushing’s big bat can do at the next level.
      With Barnes signed, I doubt that Rushing will be asked to back up Smith. But perhaps he could platoon in LF, and maybe DH when Shohei is pitching and give Freddie the occasional day off. And sure, use him at catcher sometimes too.
      If the brass loads up on free agents, the younguns should be dealt and not just warehoused in OKC.

8. Keith Law has a Q&A @TheAthletic.
   https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5889163/2024/11/01/live-qa-with-keith-law-on-free-agency-the-offseason-and-more/

   Couple of interesting answers:

   Question:
   Does the plague of arm injuries change the value proposition for high end pitching for front office bean counters? Does the increase in arm injuries affect the ability to insure a contract?

   Keith Law
   I don’t know the answer to the insurance question, but I do see a growing number of FOs who don’t want to go past 3-4 years for any pitchers, and I think this winter’s group will see a lot more 1-2 year offers. There’s just an increasing belief that pitchers are disposable assets – get ’em in, burn ’em up, throw ’em away. I hate it.

   Question:
   Moneyball spoke about finding value in market efficiencies Do you see any? Cleveland pretty much killed the market efficiency of bull pen arms this year. Prices will skyrocket.

   Keith Law
   Following on the answer I just gave, I wonder if pure innings are a little undervalued right now.

   Question:
   Now that it’s over, what do you think went wrong with Farhan Zaidi’s drafting and development system? Do you believe the issue was organizational, philosophical, or maybe even bad luck?

   Keith Law
   @Carl W. I think a LOT of bad luck, and that maybe led to some decisions they wouldn’t have made otherwise, like rushing guys (Luciano, Matos, etc.). Also the one 100-win season probably upended a lot of internal plans for building over the longer term. Once you do that, the expectation from fans and ownership that you will continue winning at a similar pace can overwhelm the kind of more patient strategy I expected from Zaidi.

   Question:
   I was sad for the Dodgers, though happy for him, when they traded Michael Busch to the Cubs for Jackson Ferris and Zyir Hope. That trade is looking good for all at this point. Your thoughts?

   Keith Law
   @Jay O. Agreed, looks good for both sides. Hope really took a big step forward this year. Still not sure about the pitch selection, but he is some kind of athlete and he’s gotten a lot stronger.

9. Love Teoscar this season, but think we use the money to sign Willy Adammes, who can solidify SS and replace Teoscars production from the right side of the plate. The Teoscar deal was a win-win for both sides.

   1. Are we really concerned about money. Last year makes me wonder
      I am very happy we spent the money. I was upset at first because we.lost one of my favorite players supposedly because of money. I think we can sign whoever and however many we want.

      1. The most recent valuation of the Dodgers is that they are worth $5.7 Billion. So they can afford a lot. They could afford to play Soto $600+ Million for 12 years and sell the team for $10 Billion in the next 8-10 years after wining 2 or 3 more World Series. Money talks.

         1. We don’t need Soto. Dodger millions could be spent more wisely on starting pitching and a power RH bat. I read where Soto wants to exceed Ohton’s 700 million contract.There are owners that are stupid enough to facilitate his request like Steve Cohen of the Mets worth 20 billion running his hedge fund. He has million dollar art pieces in his home bathrooms.

            1. According to New York Post MLB insider Jon Heyman, Soto’s new “magic number” is thought to be $700 million. While that would be similar to what Shohei Ohtani signed for with the Dodgers, Heyman suggests that Soto’s deal won’t be heavily deferred like the Dodgers’ two-way superstar.

               “Top free agent hitter Juan Soto’s new magic number is thought to be $700M (or more) — and that’s a solid $700M, not the record $700M contract that’s 97 percent deferred that Japanese superstar Shohei Ohtani received from the Dodgers,” writes Heyman.

         2. Yes Mark and I think I read that Stan Kastin is worth 12 Billion.So yes they are loaded .Money isn’t the problem.

            1. Well, Kasten is worth approx $520 Million.

               OTOH, Mark Walter is worth $6 Million and Todd Bohley is worth $8.5 Billion.

               Walter owns 27% of the Dodgers.
               Bohley owns 20% of the Dodgers.
               Stan Kasten is just an employee… not an owner.

               Guggenheim Baseball Management is the ownership group of the Los Angeles Dodgers professional baseball team.[ The consortium consisted of Guggenheim Partners controlling partner Mark Walter, and also includes as investors basketball hall of famer Magic Johnson, movie producer Peter Guber, baseball team executive Stan Kasten, and investors Bobby Patton and Todd Boehly.
               Billie Jean King and her partner Ilana Kloss joined the Los Angeles Dodgers ownership group in 2018. Entrepreneurs Alan Smolinisky and Robert L. Plummer joined the ownership group in September 2019.

               My point is that money is an issue. They have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.

10. So many unknowns.

    So – if Mookie returns to the infield that leaves only SS available to a middle infielder. Lux becomes superfluous. Maybe a trade candidate? He’s young and inexpensive, and the Dodgers are better with Mookie in RF.

    Do they need 4 utility players? (Taylor, Edman, Rojas, Kike) If not, how do they re-sign Kike? Dump Taylor?

    They have 3 holes in the OF. If Mookie plays RF, and Edman is the regular CF, then can they platoon Pages and Rushing or Outman? Does Edman play SS and they pray that Outman re-learns how to hit?

    Teo is going to be expensive. He’s 32. The Dodgers are getting older. Mookie, Freddie, Ohtani, Barnes, Rojas, Muncy all on the wrong side of 30. They can’t keep going with the same guys – eventually they get old. That’s what happened to the Giants of 2010-12-14- they kept the gang together and mostly have been irrelevant since. They either need to make room for prospects and/or trade or sign players to get younger. (Adames is 29, Soto is 26. Most of the other top free agents are 30+)

    6 man rotation next season – to start the year
    Glasnow, Yamamoto, Ohtani, Gonsolin, and then who? Is Kershaw back for the start of the season? Does Miller return to 2023 form? Are Wrobleski, Casperius starters? Can Knack pitch to good teams? (Against .500+ teams, he gave up 9 HR in 130 PA and OPS against was .853; against bad teams he gave up 5 HR in 156 PA and OPS against was .563)

    Using my crystal ball, they sign another starter – the best are Burnes, Fried, Snell and Flaherty. Or they trade for one. Maybe take a flier on Shane Bieber coming off of Tommy John surgery? They probably need one more RH bat -either SS or OF, probably OF. Maybe resign Teoscar, Tyler O’Neil? Or make a run at Soto?

    1. ‘ That’s what happened to the Giants of 2010-12-14- they kept the gang together and mostly have been irrelevant since.’ You make that accomplishment sound as if its a negative result! If we can match that I would say keep everyone for one more year at least. We have much more money to spend and can add young guys any time

    2. My crystal ball includes Buehler in the six-man rotation.
       I think he’s proven that, if no longer an ace, Buehler has come back as solid mid-rotation arm.
       He’s been with the Dodgers a long time, and the brass trusted him down the stretch and in the playoffs. As Roberts would put it, they love his “compete.”
       If it comes down to bringing back either Buehler or Flaherty, I think it will be Buehler. Just a hunch.
       And while Kershaw recovers from surgery, I could see them add another lefty–Crochet or Luzardo in a trade, or Fried or Manaea as a free agent.
       There’s a lot of pitching talent on the market now.
       Six-man: Shohei, Glassnow, Yamamoto, Buehler, Gonsolin, lefty to be named later.
       Oh, Dustin May should be back too. Love his stuff, but I think Mark is right: He’ll move be moved into relief.
       Whither Bobby Miller?

       1. Agreed on Buehler versus Flaherty. One came through for us when we needed him the most the other not so much.

11. Branch Rickey always said “Trade a player a year too early rather than a year too late”. For this very reason.

    1. Well I guess AF doesn’t believe that. resigned Rojas and Barnes

       1. He just picked up their options. Doesn’t prevent him from trading them (although I doubt he will).

12. Not thinking about ’25 for at least a few weeks.

    Ill be at the ring Ceremony in March when we play the Tigers.

    Gonna soak this in for a while fellas.

    Enjoy it Dodger Talk Nation

13. Here’s a list of the Free Agents and The athletics Projections for them:

    https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5893223/2024/11/04/mlb-top-free-agents-juan-soto-contract/

    They predict Buehler will get 2 years/$32 Million and Teo will get 3 years/$69 Million.

    Done deal!

14. Some good background on how the Dodgers changed Banda’s slider and made him the success he was this year. Also, mentions how Lux during the season was well below average in driving in runs from 3rd with less than 2 outs.

    https://flip.it/O3b273

    1. great article

    2. They nailed it… especially this part:

       Every year for 24 consecutive years the World Series has given us a new champion. Repeating is difficult because of the expanded postseason, a more even distribution of talent and the democracy of analytics and technology, which can level the playing field in non-monetary ways. The bottom line is there are many ways to win a World Series-from a sixth seed last year (Texas Rangers) to a one seed this year (Los Angeles Dodgers). But there are some lessons we can learn from the 2024 World Series.

       For instance, the next World Series champion is likely to have elite power. The past five champions all have ranked in the top four in MLB in home runs. As hits have grown scarcer, the home run ball looms larger in deciding games.

       You can talk all you want about all the money the Dodgers have and spend. But the secret sauce to how the Dodgers have built one of the greatest 12-year runs in baseball history is their player development, both in the minors and majors. They are expert at finding undervalued talent in the draft and on other rosters and bringing the best out of those players. Banda is another example.

15. I’m not sure, but I think I read that the Brewers released Devin Williams, the same one some wanted to trade for.

    No, I just read the note and I was wrong, it is still under control until 2025

    1. The Brewers won’t release Williams, but they will try and trade him.

       I think a package of Lux, Knack, and Peyton Martin would do the trick!

       1. Dodgers don’t pursue high-cost relievers.

          1. Usually…

             1. Ever?

       2. Leftovers for dinner!

16. Here’s an idea for a LHP:

    Robbie Ray opted out of his $25 million deal with the Giants. He had TJ in 2023. Give him a 3 yr/$60 Mil Deal!

    1. He opted in.

       1. Yeah, I just read that after reading earlier that he opted out. He actually opted-out of his opt-out! 😉

          1. “Declined the opt-out” is enough to make one’s head spin.

    2. Interesting.
       A target-rich environment…
       The Giants are rumored as a potential destination for Adames and Fried, and who will the Padres be after?

       1. Not sure how much $$$ the Padres have left, but I haven’t researched it at all.

          I wouldn’t be surprised if the Dodgers pursued Ha-Seong Kim. He’s coming off an injury, which means he could be under-valued, and has great position flex.

          1. Exactly!

17. Teoscar Hernandez received a qualifying offer (no surprise). Buehler didn’t.

    1. I am somewhat surprised, but I would think they will offer him a multi-year deal.

18. At this stage… no one has any idea who will go where. I think the Dodgers will go 3 years/$70 Mill to Teoscar, but some team might give him a 4th year.

19. Kershaw declines player option – presumably to give them time to negotiate a new deal.

    1. Well, he said he is going to be a Dodger For Life, so I guess that they will work it out… maybe after surgeries.

20. When Kershaw declined his player option it opened a spot on the 40 man. May have done it as a favor to the team.

21. The Dodgers have two spots available on the 40 man roster. Two pitchers currently on the 40 man that could be DFA are Logue and Brogdon. That would leave 4 spots for Rule 5 protection and free agent signings.

22. The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal links the Dodgers as likely contenders for Sasaki.
    Sasaki, 23, made his professional debut in 2021 in the Nippon Professional Baseball. He has pitched for the Chiba Lotte Marines for four seasons. Sasaki logged a 2.35 ERA with 129 strikeouts and 32 walks across 18 games this season. But, Sasaki reportedly declined an offer from his current team, suggesting a potential MLB career is in his future.

    “The suspicion among many in the industry, almost everyone in the industry, that if this guy is posted, Roki Sasaki becomes available, the Los Angeles Dodgers will be heavy, heavy favorites to sign him,” Rosenthal said Monday on Foul Territory. “And can you imagine what that team would mean in Japan, then. It already has Shohei Ohtani, Yoshinobu Yamamoto to get Sasaki as well, well it would be even more so Japan’s team.”

23. i would love to have Adames. at ss. BUT, i don’t see AF giving him a 7 year contract as most projections i see. i could see 4 @ 30 per year,but that’s probably the limit for AF. i also don’t believe Rojas will hold u physically for an entire 162 game season. i like Edman in a starter/super utility role, bouncing around the entire field. so maybe an earlier poster has a valid point. a certain ex padre SS could be a very under the radar option for SS. then my earlier suggestion of resigning Teo for left, sign Anthony S. from Baltimore, Edman in center and Kike . dump taylor , and concentrate on the bullpen. with hudson retired, Trienan possibly leaving, Kelly gone, 2 pieces for the pen become a priority. Mark i saw you mention Snell. Could he actually end up in LA? intriguing! Walks too many, but intriguing! But you’re right, they do need a lefty in the rotation. i would do that rather than gut the minors. .. i think the yankees did all other teams who would have pursued Cole a big favor. he’s outstanding, but i don’t see him finishing 5 years. i think they should have let him walk and gone after Burnes. now will Baltimore pony up and pay him? i doubt it. probably ends up being a met. i could also see Alonzo moving from Queens to the Bronx!.. the fun continues!

24. Ha-Seong Kim may not be ready until mid-season due to shoulder surgery, but he might command a 1-year/$12 Million deal (that’s what MLBTR Predicts) which would not be bad. Rojas could hopefully hold down the spot early in the season (providing he also recovers).

    Max Fried could be a target for the Dodgers as MLBTR predicts he will get 6 years/$156 Million. He’s not a fireballer, so one could expect he will not need TJ for a while, but he has had forearm strains the past tywo years, so that is worrysome.

    MLBTR predicts 1-Year at $15 Million. I would have given him the QO.

    Some also predict Michael Soroka will sign with the Dodgers on the cheap. He’s just 27 and is just the type of pitcher the Dodgers love to rehabilitate. MLBTR predicts him to get $14 Mil over 2 years.

    MLBTR predicts Jack Flaherty will get 5 years/$115 Million, so that is also a possibility.

    How about Sean Manaea who is predicted at 3 years/$60 Million. Teoscar is also predicted to get the same deal.

    Some are predicting Shane Bieber or Justin Verlader to the Dodgers .

    It’s also possible none of that happens!

25. i would take a chance with Bieber. i would pass on Verlander! Fried? absolutely! Manaea? maybe. but fried (1). Snell(2). Bieber (3). ….. Freeland could possibly have a chance to impress in spring training? if LA signs both Teo and Anthony S. they can cover SS by committee.

    1. I do not think they will sign Anthony Santander, as he profiles more as a DH, but when he DH’s he doesn’t hit!

       BTW, After triggering opt-out, Cole staying with Yanks on existing deal.

       Evidently the Yankees said no, and he blinked! He wanted to stay a Yankee.

       1. Allegedly, there they are talking about a framework for an extension though.

26. you’re probably right about anthony s. mark. Although 44 and 102 are pretty good numbers, that .244 average would scare off potential suitors. God knows the dodgers have enough .244 and below batters! (max) (taylor) ( lux) (barnes) etc. but if Teo signs elsewhere? …. With the stars they have, can’t afford to go cheap. freddie, mookie, teo, (assuming he resigns) aren’t getting younger. i don’t believe James Outman is the answer in center. i’m not 100% convinced Pages is the answer in right. Plus, as good a nlcs as max had, he was pathetic in the world series! would love to acquire mcmahon from the rox, but that won’t happen. don’t really want soto, but a couple of strong hitters would make 2025 even more exciting!

27. Well I don’t know where I came up with that.I guess that must have been a dream. I don’t try to misprint anything on purpose. I am writing about Mr.Kastin .I apologize.

    1. That figure applies to Mark Walter, controlling Dodger owner. He’s the guy with the big bucks, or let’s say bigger bucks since Kasten isn’t exactly living on the street.

28. Rumors flying that Sasaki will be posted.

    1. He will be the next Dodger from Japan, Now that we know Ohtoni secretly knows how to speak English,there is no need for a third interpreter,Sasaki can use Ohtoni’s interpreter.

29. Dick Allen, Ken Boyer, John Donaldson, Steve Garvey, Dave Parker, Vic Harris, Tommy John and Luis Tiant were revealed today by the Hall of Fame as this year’s candidates on the Era Committee ballot. Most commonly known as the “veterans committee,” a panel of 16 people (comprised of former players, executives, sportswriters, and historians) will meet during the Winter Meetings to vote on whether or not any of these eight candidates will be elected to Cooperstown. At least 12 of 16 votes are needed for induction, and the results of the balloting will be revealed on December 8.

30. If you have a surgery named after you, definitely should be in HOF

31. tiant and tommy john get in

32. You know, I kinda don’t think any of the free agents fit the Dodger mold , and or needs. Except for Striker and Teoscar. And maybe an early innings eater al a Paxton. I anticipate another Busch trade. And maybe another trade……hmmm . But other than that, let’s get younger!
    Book em

33. BREAKING NEWS

    The Dodgers announced today that Shohei Ohtani underwent arthroscopic surgery to repair a labrum tear in his left shoulder that resulted from a dislocation. The club added that the two-way star is expected to be ready for spring training.

    1. I was right about that!

34. A popular YouTuber has made this prediction:
    The Dodgers offer Teo about $75m over 3 years, but he decides to take bigger money over 4-5 years from another team. (Seems reasonable to me.)
    So the Dodgers pivot to Plan B: A trade for Luis Robert Jr.
    Yes, Robert is injury prone and had a weak ’24. But at 27, he is five years younger than Teo–and he also plays a high quality CF. The White Sox would be dealing Robert’s team-friendly contract, which would increase the cost in terms of prospects.
    Not likely, but plausible.

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