What I remember of Eric Gagne is a pitcher who, when he came out of the pen to close a game, you were pretty sure he would shut the opposition down. And he was very good at it for about three years. From 2002-2004, there was not a more dominant closer in the majors. Eric Serge Gagne was born on January 7, 1976, in Montreal in the province of Quebec in Canada. He grew up in the town of Mascouche, near Montreal, and went to Edouard Montpetit High School. The same High School that Russell Martin went to. He played hockey and baseball as a child.
His little league teams were coached by his father. He was a Canadians and Expos fan. He was a 30th-round draft choice by the White Sox in the 1994 draft but did not sign. The following year he signed with the Dodgers as an amateur free agent. But he missed the entire 1997 season with TJ surgery after spending some time in the minors before that.
In 1999 he made his MLB debut as a starter. He finished the year with a 1-1 record and a 2.10 ERA in 5 starts. Over the next two years, he went 11-14 in 48 games, 38 of them starts. Jeff Shaw retired after the 2001 season, and Gagne was converted to a reliever. He got his first save on April 7 against the Rockies. He saved 10 in a row before he blew his first save on May 7th against the Braves. He was, at the time, the top reliever in the league. He was chosen for his first All-Star game, becoming the second player from Quebec to be named an All-Star. Claude Raymond was the first. He served up a 2-run homer to Alfonso Soriano, cutting the NL lead to 4-2. For the year, he saved 52 games.
In 2003, he was called on 55 times to save a game and converted all of them. He became the first pitcher to have more than 50 saves in more than one season and the quickest to 100 saves. He tied the league high set by John Smoltz in 2002. Between August 26th, 2002, and July 5th, 2004, he converted 84 consecutive saves, an MLB record. 55% of the batters he retired in 2003 were by strikeout. When he came into a game at Dodger Stadium, the words “Game Over” would flash on the scoreboard and the PA system would play “Welcome to the Jungle” by Guns N Roses.
In 2003, Gagne won the Cy Young award, becoming the second Canadian to win the award, Fergie Jenkins was the first, and he was named the Rolaids reliever of the year. He was the only pitcher ever to win the award with a losing record. He was 2-3 that year. He was making $550,000 in 2003. He asked for a raise to 8 million, but in the end, settled for 5. On July 15, 2004, just ten days after his streak ended, he earned his 130th save, passing Jeff Shaw for the most in team history. It was since eclipsed by plenty by Jansen.
2005 was a bad year for Eric. He sustained several injuries. He was effective, going 8-8 in save opportunities, but only pitched in 14 games. In June, it was announced he needed a second TJ surgery. A return to pitching in the majors after two TJ surgeries was unheard of at that time. Hung Chi Kuo would later prove that you could. When they opened up his elbow, they found a tendon trapped by scar tissue. They released it.
In 2006, after a couple of encouraging outings in spring, the pain returned. He was forced to undergo another surgery, this time removing the tendon. More recovery time ensued. He came back in June and pitched in 2 games, earning a save, but the pain once again returned, and he went back on the DL. Then in July, he woke up with intense pain in his back. He was found to have two herniated discs and underwent season-ending surgery.
The Dodgers declined to exercise Gagne’s option, and he became a free agent. In December of 2006, he signed a two-year deal with the Rangers. He did not do well in the spring, and for the third straight year, he started the season on the DL. On May 8th, he was activated and installed as the Ranger’s closer. For the rest of the year, he was 2-0 with 16 saves. In July of 2007, he was traded to the Boston Red Sox. He was expected to be the set-up man for Jonathan Papelbon. He gave up 14 runs in his first 14 innings. But after a while, he improved and was added to the Red Sox post-season roster. He went one scoreless inning in his only World Series appearance.
In 2008 Gagne went to Milwaukee. He did not last long in the closer’s role, removed in early May. He ended 2008 with the worst record of his career. Ten saves in 17 chances and an ERA over 5. The following year, he signed a minor league deal with Milwaukee but was released midway through spring with a shoulder injury.
Gagne would not pitch in the majors again. Already rumors of PED use were swirling, and he was named in the Mitchell Report. Gagne tried to restart his career more than a few times. In 2010 he signed a minor league deal with the Dodgers, but he got roughed up in spring training. So he retired as spring training ended. He pitched in Canadian Independent Leagues a few times. He also became a pitching coach for the French team, trying out for the World Baseball Classic. They did not qualify. He also coached for the Texas Rangers in their minor league system for a couple of years.
Gagne’s alleged use of HGH was testified to by Kirk Radomski, a steroids dealer. Supposedly, Radomski had receipts for two direct shipments to Gagne. Also implicated was Gagne’s teammate, Paul LoDuca. All of this was taking place in 2004. Gagne has not admitted he used it. He simply has refused to comment on the subject. Most think the reason is that more teammates would be implicated. Finally, in 2010, he admitted he used HGH but said it was for a knee injury. Gagne is divorced and has four children.
I remember Gagne as a decent starter, who knows how he might have developed? But as a reliever he became great! It shows the difference between starting and relieving, game planning vs going full force for one inning. And as a reliever he could throw 4 different pitches for strikes in any count. Too bad injuries deprived us of watching a great closer do his thing for many years.
I think it was all that HGH and roids that made that 94 MPH fastball as a starter morph into 100 MPH as a reliever.
The changeup was pure witchcraft. It looked like a combination of a splitter and a screwball at times. I think he called it “The Thing”. It was a made up grip / pitch that only he threw that way by shoving the ball between his pinky and middle finger and turning it over when he threw it.
We was big, strong, scary and wore weird glasses and if you touched his cap, you needed a tetanus shot. I absolutely loved that guy. Best stretch ever by a closer. He went an entire year and then some without a blown save. Incredible.
The Dodgers gave him many chances as a starter but he could not get past 3 innings. He became a dominant closer after he added a deadly splitter along with the fastball and change. I watched him throw a bullpen at a preseason game in Seattle before he became Eric Gagne and the fastball and the split finger looked identical until the bottom dropped out of the split.
Thanks Bear for another great read.
12:05 PM ET
Dodgers (87-38)
Marlins (55-71)
SP Julio Urias L
13-7 2.36 ERA 133.2IP 27BB 130K
SP Edward Cabrera R
4-1 1.41 ERA 38.1IP 19BB 43K
Confirmed Lineup
RF Mookie Betts R
SS Trea Turner R
1B F. Freeman L
DH Max Muncy L
3B J. Turner R
LF Joey Gallo L
2B Gavin Lux L
CF T. Thompson R
C A. Barnes R
In Domed Stadium
Watch Dodgers vs. Marlins today on Peacock
His name in French ‘Gagne’ translates to Win (or Won) . How appropriate
The Dodgers must have sold a lot more concessions during Gagne’s reign. No one would leave the stadium early in those days. It was electric at the stadium with “Game Over” coming in from the pen to “Welcome to the Jungle”. He was the Brightest Star that burned out quickly.
I got goosebumps reading this. Thanks Bear!
Eric, three separate posts to figure out how to get those relievers on the active roster, then you have to cut a bunch of guys that could be useful in the future. Martin has arguably pitched better than Robertson, but Robertson has closing experience and has pitched in higher leverage situations. So, I will concede that Robertson would be more valuable to the team. But, Martin will be on the team next year and was cheaper to acquire and Robertson is no sure thing since he did blow a save with the Phillies since being acquired.
Chafin is not as good as Vesia, Ferguson or Heaney. There was no need for that move whatsoever.
It looks to me like AF did what was necessary to solidify the bullpen, but I will admit I would feel a lot better about the back end of games with Robertson.
“Since 1969, only 13 teams with the best regular season record have won the World Series.” This is one of those situations where people lie with statistics. Yesterday I went back and audited the World Series winners since 2010 and over 40% of them had the best record in their own league. The 2017 Astros had the second most wins in their league finishing with just one win less than the Indians. The playoffs are way less of a “Crapshoot” than the “13 team” statement indicates.
We lost yesterday and Doc didn’t do anything to screw up the game. So, I didn’t say anything. That’s how it works. If he doesn’t something weird, we talk about it. To lose a screw over it is just nonsense. People second-guess moves that are made in every sport. They even have a name for it. “Arm chair quarterback”. Analyzing the moves that are made during the game is a fun part of it. For some, making up trade suggestions is fun. That’s what this site is all about. That’s why Mark included the word “Talk” in the name.
I come off as a know it all often, and an A-Hole sometimes. Trust me, I’m working on it. Don’t believe me? Go back and look at the comments from my banned account “59inarow”.
We can discuss and exchange ideas, but let’s all keep the personal insults to a minimum. It escalates quickly.
We have another game in just about 2 hours and we’re facing another very good pitcher. Barnes is behind the plate, Lux returns to 2b and Thompson gets a start against a righty in CF with Gallo in LF. Will Smith sits with Muncy at DH. Julio is on the bump going for his 14th win.
If over 40% of teams had the best record in their league, then over 50% didn’t. That kind of sounds like a crapshoot.
More towards your point; I’m not sure going back to ‘69 is appropriate due to the changes in format. What does the record show since 2000?
MushersPop: Since 1995 (the beginning of the Wild Card era) only 3 teams with the best record in baseball have won the World Series. That’s a 16% rate. During the same time, many pedestrian teams have won it all, including many wild card teams. I think it’s pretty easy to conclude the concept of “crapshoot”.
Thanks for your response. Funny thing, if you assume that all teams involved in the playoffs are all of equal in capability, under the division/league/WS format a team would have a 1/8 (or 12.5%) chance of winning. As you point out since ‘95 the best team has won 16%. So, one could argue the odds of the best team winning it all is just slightly better then the other teams. Note, this was assuming all teams are equal and they’re not (as you say some very questionable teams have won).
MushersPop: One of the best examples of the hottest team winning is the 2006 Cardinals. Their regular season record was 83-78, just slightly over 500. Yet they were hot as hell in Sept and went on to win it all. The Marlins have won 2 rings and never won a division. How ’bout 2 of the Giants wins? The old one I remember vividly was 1954 (the famous Willy Mays catch). The Giants (97-57 record) swept the Indians (111-43) in the WS. Finally you have to look no further than our 1988 Dodgers. The Mets (100-60 record) beat us (94-67 record) 10 out of 11 during the regular season and yet we won the nlcs in 7. Then we beat the A’s (104-58) in the World Series. History clearly tells us “crapshoot”.
10 teams go to the playoffs, 2 of them have the best record in their own league during the sample period. Those top two teams account for 20% of playoff teams each year. If it were a crapshoot, or random, one of those teams would win 20% of the time. The fact that they win over 40% of the time suggests it is not random or a crapshoot. They win over twice as much as a random assignment would.
I’m curious, why did you stop at 2010? A quick check shows the LDS/LCS/WS format has been around since 1994. Interestingly from 2012-2019 the top seed has one the most time. But is that a function of small sample size?
While one could argue a change in the wild card format, one still has the same LDS-WS format. So a larger sample size (eg., using ‘94 as a starting point) is still applicable. Doing so, based on JayB’s writeup changes the story.
B&P: OK, I give. You are right about what this site is about. I have really let your remarks about Doc get to me and that is my bad. I will also try to be better. I hope you will admit there is quite a negative bias there and maybe work on that.
Yes, I am old (I guess). I have watched a lot of baseball and spent years coaching youth ball. I do know the game quite well. I admit I have a bias in the other direction when it comes to Doc. As I have said previously, I have run (and owned) very large companies with hundreds of employees. I had a favorite saying to our staff. “If you don’t have faith in those above you to make good decisions, you should look elsewhere for a place to work”. While not totally transferable, it kind of applies to our team. I have enormous faith in the people running the Dodgers to do the right things. They are the ones who hired and have stuck with the Manager. I feel we can’t extol the virtues of AF but totally be against maybe the most important hiring decision he has made. When you combine that with the incredibly successful record over the past 6+ years, my support of Doc is to me a no brainer. However, I will try to show more respect to your opinion on that matter and agree to disagree.
On to the “crapshoot” aspect of the post season. You stated my analysis of the #1 seed not winning the World Series was misleading because each league plays different opponents. That statement can certainly be applied within both the NL and AL teams, who all play different opponents within their leagues. The “crapshoot” opinion stems only from the fact that anything can happen in a 3/5/7 game series. That can even happen in the regular season. It is inexplicable that the Pirates won 5 of 6 from our team this year. But it happened. Statistics bear out over the long run, but can go awry over the short run. I will agree that bonehead moves by a Manager during a short series can have a devastating affect. I will also say there have been very few (if any) post season series in any sport where the Manager/Coach didn’t make a bonehead move or two. But you will have to admit it is much easier to call a move bonehead knowing the results.
I really enjoy reading this site and your contributions are very valuable most of the time.
AS for negative bias, I think that is to be expected. The fans want to win 162 games. So any close game that is lost is because the ‘manager’ made a’ bad’ decision. If the bad decision works out and the team wins, all is forgiven. Like I posted earlier. If Bickford had given up multiple runs last nite and we came back to score two—well then Roberts would be criticized for putting him in while the game was still winnable.
David: I agree negative bias is to be expected. That’s kind of what being a sports fan is about. I just don’t want it to get in the way of understanding how good we have it as Dodgers fans.
Yes, I’ll admit that it’s easier to call a decision after the fact. But, you also have to admit that Doc has made more than his fair share of bad moves, particularly in the postseason. The fact that he’s only won one ring in seven attempts makes me think his regular season record is very overstated as an attribute of being a great manager. Especially when he has the favored team in most of those attempts.
Conversely, Tommy does not have the regular season record that Doc has. But, Tommy won two championships and a Gold Medal with teams that were severe underdogs. But, times were way different back then when we didn’t consistently have one of the highest payrolls each season like we’ve had under Doc.
B&P: Doc has only been involved in 6 post seasons, not 7. Hopefully #7 will produce what we all want. I really think an argument can be made that if Kershaw’s pitches in Game 5 of 2017 weren’t being stolen, we probably win that game and the series. Unfortunately we will never know. But it is hard to believe one of the best sliders of our time got no swing throughs in that game. So if we eliminate 2017, Docs’s teams have been to the WS 2 out of 5 and won 1 out of 5. If we include 2017 and assume they would have won, he has been to the WS 3 out of 6 and has won 2.
Tommy, a very good Manager got to 4 WS and won 2 in 21 years. Yes Doc has had better talent. I have used the argument of others who have had great talent but not as good a regular season winning record as Doc. Let’s use the post season example of Sparky Anderson, managing the Big Red Machine or Bobby Cox managing a team with 3 Hall of Fame Pitchers. Sparky managed the Reds for 9 years, got to the WS 4 times and won 2. During Cox’s incredible 14 straight division champs, they got to the WS 5 times and won 1.
I have a sneaky hunch that when Doc has that length of time in the seat, his record of WS appearances and wins will stack up with the best of them. As I said earlier, we will just have to agree to disagree.
I guess results are what generates the criticism of ‘weird’ moves. So he put Bickford in when just trailing by 1 run. he gave up that double, but picked off the runner. So if he had his usual inning and gave up a run or 2, and the Dodgers came back and scored two runs—-well you know what we would be saying.
If is the longest 2 letter word in the dictionary. He got them out this time. Fans are going to gripe no matter what. They lost that game because players made errors at a crucial moment in the game. Then the offense could not score after they loaded the bases in the 9th. You have to look at the big picture. Last year, all the guys on this post were singing Bickford’s praises wondering where AF had picked up this gem.
And again you can’t win every game or get every good break. Two crappy soft grounders that were misplayed. The Gallo makes last out on 100MPH shot right at fielder. Oh well today looks better already
Exactly! It was that close to where it came down to a couple of bad plays and a scorched shot that found a glove. Hat tip!
If you want to watch the game on Peacock today, you have to have Peacock Premium, and that is 5 bucks a month. I already pay MLB.TV 129 a year, for that, I should get all of the games whether they are played on any other service or not. I already miss Dodger games against the Rockies because I am closer than the mile limit to Denver, so I get blacked out. I will just listen to the radio feed like I did for years. About managers making in game boners. The list is long. It gets magnified in playoff games and World Series. The players play the game and ultimately are responsible for the wins or loses. In the three World Series he has managed, Roberts has made a couple of questionable moves. And he did a lulu in the game 5 playoff against DC in 19. Sending Joe Kelly back out for a second inning. Most remember removing Hill when he was shutting down the Red Sox. Again, it is on the players to perform, but the bullpen imploded, and that was that. One thing I have learned about Roberts is that he has no set plan. He puts the players on the field that he thinks give the Dodgers the best chance to win. For the most part, it is hard to argue with the results. We might not particularly care for a lineup featuring 4 guys down in the Mendoza zone, Muncy, Bellinger, Gallo and Barnes, but he continually gets away with it. One of those guys or the top 4 will do something good and they win. Here we are at the 125-game mark, and they are the only team with less than 40 losses. We might not care for him, and some do not, but management loves the guy and so do his players. As old as I am, I remember some really bad managerial decisions that cost LA pennants. Alston, in game 3 of the 62 playoffs, going with Stan Williams who proceeded to blow a 2-run lead and probably worse than that, leaving a totally gassed Ed Roebuck in to start the 9th. Lasorda electing to pitch to Jack Clark. Fernando Tatis Jr. just lost a lot of income, Addidas dropped him.
Bear: Thanks for this. Couldn’t have said it better. And thank you for all you do for this site. I also couldn’t agree more about not being able to watch today’s game.
I have the MLB subscription so I can watch games when I’m away from home (LA area). For home I have Spectrum cable. I pay plenty to be able to watch Dodger games. And today because its on Peacock, I can’t watch. At some point I will no longer pay and I will no longer follow the team. I do not know the exact breaking point, but its getting close. Do others feel this way?
Living over in GErmany todays game is available on MLB TV from Peacock.
Mookie with another HR to lead off the game.
Dodgers up 2-0 top of 2nd.
Go Dodgers!!!!!!!!!!!
Same here, but you have to have their premium service. I do not.
Sure Drysdale ready to go in ninth, But Alston wanted to save him for game 1 of WS.
Yep. and it cost him. Still a bad decision. Ya have to get there first.
I’m with you. I had to buy a freaking Apple Subscription and luckily I already had a peacock subscription. But, yeah, this is BS. BTW, I pay for MLB’s subscription and SportsnetLA through cable. This is a total joke!
I can’t stand Tatis. He almost got his Padres contract voided as well.
agree with you 100%. I pay way too much…and I can’t watch the game today?
Sunday’s Dodger Minor League Schedule
10:05 a.m. PT: Great Lakes (Ronan Kopp*) vs. Fort Wayne (Garrett Hawkins)
11:35 a.m.: Tulsa (Kyle Hurt) at Arkansas (Taylor Dollard)
4:05 p.m.: Oklahoma City (Michael Grove & Jon Duplantier) vs. El Paso (Thomas Eshelman)
6 p.m.: Rancho Cucamonga (Darlin Pinales) at Visalia (Brock Jones)
*Ronan Kopp, the Dodgers’ 12th-round draft pick in 2021 who had a 2.81 ERA and 40-percent strikeout rate in Low-A, makes his Loons debut Sunday, five days after getting promoted and thirty days after his 20th birthday.
Some quick thoughts
– I can’t remember having such high expectations every time the Dodgers run onto the field– fun!
– The logical side of me sees our payroll and weak MLB competition and thinks our winning % is mostly the product of well spent resources, but I know team chemistry is an important variable.
– Yesterday’s game was good preparation for the playoffs, it’s too bad we won’t face both Sherzer and Degrom this week.
– It’s fun to watch players like –Trace, Gallo –compete for playing time and ultimately the playoff roster.
– I think the Dodgers have the components to win in the playoffs, but I don’t trust Doc to make the right decisions. For example, I am not a fan of platooning based on lefty-righty pitching matchups — i want my best players on the field all the time. Often times, clutch hits come when you least expect them. The mixing, matching, and piggy backing of our pitchers could be the difference maker — not something Roberts has proven to be adept at.
– This is an amazing, resilient team with lots of great storylines,
– Go Dodgers!
* I’m with Bear. I’m pissed that some games are exclusive on addition channels that charge monthly fees. In both Az and Washington I pay handsomely for a satellite service and a cable package including MLB Extra Innings, to get all the games. Now it’s Peacock and Apple and other players and I refuse to pay their fees. I see this as only the beginning of having to subscribe and stream games especially college football.
* Is there a stat-free feed for Dodger baseball games? I might pay for that. Rick Monday, Tim Neverett drive me nuts with useless stats. “In his last 231 AB, Smith has taken a first pitch strike 162 times while only hitting 200 against LHP who’s names start with S or later in the alphabet”. WFC’s?
* Those bobble heads they plan to give away later on would scare the bejesus out of me as a little kid.
* I don’t know if Taylor pushed Anderson’s foot off 2nd or not but Anderson got run in a nano second. He looked like he didn’t have time to say the magic words. Anderson left quickly and can tell you. I would have gotten my money’s worth. Pretty quick trigger by DJ Rayburn.
* I’ve seen about 4 situations that I thought were green lite specials in the last 2 games with fast guys on 1st and Doc doesn’t start them. We’ve needed that 90 feet. I can never seem to guess when and why he’ll start a guy and then he doesn’t. But with Freeman up I’d want Betts or TT on 2nd first or second pitch. Doc must have info I don’t.
* We need to get engaged more and play better today.
One of my biggest gripes is the Dodgers use their speed less than they should, and they never bunt.
Bear, I have practically stopped ever thinking about a bunt. I used to automatically think bunts in order, in obvious situations. I have flushed that from my brain almost completely.
I see no point waiting around to steal a bag. Get it done early. Straight steal, hitter taking the pitch and let the hitter get to hitting, not down in the count. I almost never see a pitch out anymore. Deep in counts, especially to Freeman, do a run-and-hit. He makes contact and uses the whole park so infielders can’t cheat. I would never hit-and-run anymore. The hitter, hits a strike or takes a ball, a pitch harder to throw on typically. Everybody seems to run on 3&2 with 1 out. We seldom do that. Use our speed better Doc.
And yes, I guess I am second guessing the Skipper. Call it a friendly suggestion.
I watch Dodgers on TikTok. Free with some random background chatter ( kids, the pooch). Some feeds better than others – do search ‘Dodgers Live’ and there’s usually 6-7 feeds going.
This Peacock broadcast is just a reminder of how great out Spectrum broadcast is.
That Mimosas segment with the Real House Wife’s of Miami which needed not just one but 2 reporters was and a whole half inning of nonsense was priceless.
I don’t know Fallito. Spectrum seems to cut away from the game for useless interviews quite often as well.
One of the housewives could have passed for Joy on “My Name is Earl”.
Peacock is doing better than AppleTV, they’re the worst.
BulldogsandPenguins
Peaceful post.
There’s no comparison in career stats between Heaney and Chafin. Chafin is better career wise.
Chafin career slash line .226/.303/.326/.628
Heaney career slash line .250/.309/.443/.752
One of your favorite stats ERA
Chafin career ERA 3.27
Heaney career ERA 4.55
Chafin has a better 2022 slash line, Heaney has a better 2022 ERA. ERA has factors involved in the stat (next pitcher can bail out your mess on the bases or the other way around), unlike slash lines.
2022 Stats
Chafin .214/.266/.318/.585
Heaney .192/.274/.365/.640
Chafin ERA 3.02
Heaney ERA 1.94
Off the top of my head I think we have a couple philosophies that are different. There may be more than 2.
I consider career stats (bigger samples). It seems like you don’t. I may be wrong though, but it seems like it.
I noticed we have a different philosophy about how many lefty and righty relievers should be on the staff. My philosophy is who cares. If a reliever is good or excellent against both sides of the plate I don’t care which arm he uses.
By the way, yesterday I mentioned I have my eye on Vesia. He did good again today.
Yep, we have completely different philosophies. It’s good to have a guy like Chafin who’s splits aren’t so extreme. But, it’s also good to have a guy like Vesia who dominates lefties. Ideally, it’s good to have both guys in your pen.
Career stats are important all things being equal. But, Gange is a good example of why career stats don’t mean crap if you make a change that gives you different results. Heany is dominant this year. We are playing this year. For this year, he is way better than Chafin. I think it’s worth the risk if he can transition to a shut down multi-inning reliever in the playoffs. Something Chafin can’t do.
You cannot compare Chafin to Heaney. Heaney throughout his career has been primarily a starter. Find some lefty reliever to compare him too.
First paragraph I agree. I have my eye on Vesia. If you didn’t notice in my post yesterday I have Vesia in my playoff pen depending on future results against RHB. He could collapse though.
Second paragraph: I left the door open for Heaney by having the option of optioning either Graterol or Martin.
Without listing stats Chafin has better career and 2022 slash lines than Martin and better ERA career and 2022. The whole year for Martin, not just his Dodger sample.
Graterol and Chafin have similar 2022 slash lines and ERA, Chafin has better career stats though. Chafin’s splits are better both career and 2022. A lot better career splits, Graterol is horrible against LHB career wise and not good this year either.
If you think Martin has changed because the Dodgers have better pitching coaches etc than the Cubs, well the same could be true about Chafin if the Dodgers had got him.
Also the reason I consider career stats is because current year stats can change quickly. That’s what smaller samples do.
There is room for Chafin, Just depends on who should be left off the playoff roster among Heaney, Graterol, Martin. Also you could add Kimbrel among those 3 if he doesn’t turn it around. What’s up with Treinen, is he definitely coming back? What’s up with Almonte, is he definitely coming back?
I forgot to include this in my previous post.
“Heany is dominant this year. We are playing this year. For this year, he is way better than Chafin.”
Last part is not true, I gave stats. First part, if Heaney is dominate then Chafin is too, I gave stats.
Peaceful posts by me.
I simply do not think Heaney makes the roster as a reliever. It will be from Vesia, Ferguson and Price with an outside shot Gonzalez comes back before the end of the season. Bickford is not going to make it. With Treinen coming back, I am not sure Martin does.
I’m so glad that the Braves screwed Freeman. I sure hope we can work something out to keep Trea. Those three are perfect for the 1, 2, 3 spots in the lineup.
But, I do still think that Lux is going to be very close to Trea in the near future. He would slot in nicely in the 2 hole and I still think he’s a shortstop.
Betts and Freddie are locked up, CT3, Lux, Smith and Muncy for the next couple of years.
If we replace Trea, JT and Belli with Vargas, Outman or Pages and Busch, will the team be better, as good, or worse overall?
I think Vargas is a young version of JT. He’s gonna make a lot of contact, hit some bombs and a whole lot of doubles and get on base at a very high rate. It may take a little time to reach him on defense, but he’s not as bad as initially thought.
Pages and Outman can probably hit better than Belli right now. Their defense will come up a little short
Trea has been an animal with the Dodgers. With Busch taking over at second base, the defense at SS and 2B both take a hit. But, look at all those extra base hits. He’s a true middle of the order type hitter.
If Trea and JT bolt next year, I think we’re worse for it. But, we may be better overall in a couple of years. I think we try to bring back all three next year. Outman and maybe Pages will put pressure on Belli in his walk year. JT and Muncy are fine sharing 3B and DH and we can always rest JT completely more in the beginning of the year, when he typically starts slow against righties with Rios in the mix and Vargas applying pressure. If Trea walks, maybe we can let Vargas, CT3 and Busch compete for 2B and resign Trace Thompson to play mostly LF with Outman getting some time there as well.
I don’t see any way that JT isn’t back next year. He and AF will make it work, salary wise, and for sure JT is not ready to retire yet.
I think Vargas is almost a sure thing to start 2023 on the major league roster.
Outman is a possibility, and almost definitely gets here before the season is over.
Busch, if not traded, will probably make it sometime next year. But if we keep Trea and Lux stays at second, I expect Busch to be traded.
I don’t think Pages is anywhere near ready for the big club. He’s a 21-year old, hitting .236 at AA. He’s got nice on base numbers and power numbers, but I don’t see a desperate need for him in L.A. next year and I think he’d be far better served with a year in AAA.
One last thing – IMHO this has been one of the better days in a long while at LADT, thanks to some really good conversation by folks who have very different opinions on baseball topics but you have all apparently realized that things are much better around here when you are civil towards each other. This reader/commenter says thank you.
I appreciate it STB. I also agree with all of these takes. Except for the one about Busch. No need to trade him, if JT’s only got one more year in him. He can always play LF. Muncy has two years remaining for the most part. Pages should be ready by then. Pages and Busch might share DH and LF at that time. Very stacked team.
BP,
Losing TT in my opinion would be a Huge loss and it would be felt. Lux is a decent player but he would give us about 33%-50% what TT gives us. That is a big loss.
Losing JT to Vargas I can live with, but I still would like to keep JT around as a DH or something.
Losing Bellinger won’t make me lose any sleep either. You know how I feel about Bellinger, so no surprise there….but I do appreciate his defense. I don’t know Trayce that well but I’ve seen him make some good plays in the outfield. I wonder how much we would lose defensively with him inserted over Belli. Do you have any thoughts on that? And we can always platoon Thompson with Outman, but I think Thompson hits RHP pretty well….or so it seems to me.
I agree with your analysis. Given the salary that is coming off the books next year, I do think the Dodgers will go after Trea very hard. Bauer is done. JT may be the sacrifice in that scenario. Unless he is willing to take a massive pay cut. Which if anybody would be willing, it would be JT. Kersh is also a question. If he wants to play he will get a contract. I can’t see AF letting Trea walk without a massive offer. It will be up to him. That 1-2-3 shouldn’t be touched.
Glad to know I’m not the only one with a tendency for premature speculation….
Locking up Trea long-term would have a ripple effect on how AF manages other assets, especially Lux.
One possibility is to simply keep him to man 2B. And that would be fine.
But based on current performance–especially his high on-base percentage– Lux would be a strong lead-off hitter for most other teams. And he’d also have more value playing SS. So while Lux is good for the Dodgers, he could be great for another team.
So winter rolls around. Whether or not the Dodgers are the champs, AF finds himself wondering whether to join the bidding for Ohtani, an ace-quality SP and clean-up quality DH.
The Angels want more than a bunch of prospects. They need a SS and leadoff hitter–a guy like Lux, hitting ahead of Trout and Rendon.
Lux plus prospects could be a very strong offer.
As great as he is with the Halos, Ohtani could be even better with the Dodgers. He’d have a better supporting cast and get more rest, platooning at DH and otherwise ready to pinch-hit.
I saw the game on Facebook, sometimes I see them there, I just don’t like the commentators
Don’t understand why I live 5 hours from dc but I can’t watch the dodgers when they play nationals! Don’t understand why the nfl wants to play games out of the country and home fans lose a home game. Exhibition games ok, but not regular season games. The talking heads in charge must know something we don’t. Interested to see how hard we go after the wins against the Mets, still need home field advantage, not so sure braves still won’t win east. Mookie pushing hard for mvp
I agree it is totally ridiculous. I live a couple hours from Denver, but all Dodger Rockies games are blacked out, even when they are playing in LA over 1000 miles away.
I have Comcast (Xfinity) TV and Peacock is included for free. I had been discussing my bill with Comcast and they happened to mention it to me just in time for me to watch the game.
Scherzer with 112 pitches today.
Good that Braves keeping pressure on Mets. We’ll see how deep Met pitching is now.
I’d say – ‘Playoff vibes’ for this Mets series.
Padres lose, lead is 19,5. OKC-EL Paso game on MLB.tv. They hit four homers while I was watching. Outman, Rios, Amaya and Martin. Vargas just hit one too.
LOL, stacked!
The Padres are acting pretty mediocre. 9-10 with Soto playing in the lineup. It’s almost sad. How many times out of 10 can OKC beat them? 😉
5 Bombs! Lot’s of spare parts at OCK. Spring Training is going to be so fun next year.
Rockies beat the Mets, Royals beat the Padres, A’s beat the Yankees among many upsets today. I think that makes us up 7.5 games on the Mets for best record.
Matt Beaty was in the lineup for El Paso. I really liked him.
Come and live in had Uk
Nothings ever blanked out.