The Truth About Trevor Bauer

Posted By on January 21, 2022

The truth about Trevor Bauer is more of a reflection of the person who forms an opinion about Bauer than the truth about the accusations against Bauer himself. We may never know “the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth!” However, this is still America where a Presumption of Innocence and Due Process is still (barely) alive. Trevor Bauer is working out and throwing over 91 MPH from flat ground while promoting his “Spider Tack.” He is acting like he is ready to move back into the rotation. In case you have missed it, here is a video he did at the end of last year:

It does not look like the DA is inclined to charge him and he has been suspended by MLB pending the outcome of the investigation. Let’s assume that he is not charged… as it does not look like he will be. What then? Well, most people assume that Bauer will be suspended for at least part of the 2022 season by Rob Manfred. I do not! Maybe (maybe) Manfred will give Bauer a 30 to 60 days suspension, but if he is not charged, I believe it would be retroactive to when he was suspended. I believe that it is possible that Bauer could receive a suspension that was retroactive to the time he was suspended last year, but I do not think he would accept it.

In fact, I have a feeling that Bauer might not accept any suspension. He would have to file a grievance and then take MLB to court in the event he lost… and he might not lose! I do not believe that Trevor Bauer should ever pitch in MLB again IF he did what he is accused of… but we don’t know if any, part, or all of it is true. Some will argue that he has admitted to rough sex with the accuser. What he has admitted is that she wanted rough sex. This has yet to play out, but I have absolutely no opinion about this. I am waiting on Due Process. Just don’t jump to conclusions.

Christian Red Freelance Writer

Christian Red, an award-winning sports investigative reporter who spent 16 years at the New York Daily News, and who has written for ESPN, USA Today, NBC, the Athletic, New York Post, New York Times, and Washington Post, wrote an article today about this very issue. In Forbes.com, Red wrote a piece entitled: “In Background Of Baseball Labor Dispute, Trevor Bauer Still Has Two Matters That Are Unresolved” Here are a few takeaways from the article:

[Judge]Gould-Saltman, however, said in her ruling that the San Diego woman’s “initial declaration… was materially misleading.” And Fetterolf, Bauer’s attorney and agent, had previously said in a June 29, 2021 statement that Bauer had a “brief and wholly consensual sexual relationship initiated by” the San Diego woman.

Many righteous and/or woke people in MLB have “matter-of-factly” stated that Bauer is likely to get a long suspension. I think they are jumping to conclusions on the basis of facts, not in evidence. Red noted the following:

Judge Gould-Saltman’s ruling, however, could potentially impact the criminal case and the prosecutors’ decision-making process, according to legal experts.

“A prosecutor’s confidence in their ability to win a case is certainly going to impact their analysis of whether they’re going to ultimately move forward with criminal charges,” said Dan Lust, a sports attorney and New York Law School professor. “No prosecutor wants to lose a case. A certain part of that analysis is going to be how strong the witnesses are – in terms of their ability to stand up on cross-examination, and if people find them to be truthful. 

The Judge (Gould-Saltman) in the (Bauer) civil matter went out of her way to characterize (the accuser’s) testimony as untruthful,” added Lust. “I certainly think that is going to be a factor, that the D.A.’s office might say, ‘Maybe we shouldn’t take this case.’ It’s not the be all/end all, but I think that has to factor in (to the D.A.’s decision).”

The Forbes writer is not the only person who feels this way.

Los Angeles criminal defense attorney Mark Geragos agreed that Gould-Saltman’s ruling was a favorable development for Bauer beyond the restraining order matter.“It’s awfully difficult to bring a criminal case when a Superior Court judge has already ruled on the lower civil standard that there isn’t enough to issue a permanent protective order,” said Geragos.

Absent some type of recording or surveillance, there are only two people who know what really happened – Bauer and his accuser. Red goes on to write:

After that, every witness is one level removed. If you speak to the attendant that treated her at the hospital, for example, that person is only getting details second-hand. Any friends that she spoke with are only getting it second-hand. The fact that the judge went out of her way to criticize (the accuser’s) veracity and credibility, that’s big.”

I am going to end this discussion with the same thing Christian Red ended his article with:

“What (Bauer) did was wrong and uncalled for,” wrote a Twitter user with the account @MattAdamBenigno. “I agree with that, but he’s still a person and a pitcher for the Dodgers.” Bauer responded to the tweet: “Only two people in the world know what actually happened. One of them hasn’t spoken about it yet. The other is a proven habitual liar that was deemed by a judge to have misled the court. Maybe think twice before deciding what was “wrong” and “uncalled for”.”

Maybe, just maybe, Stan Kasten and Andrew Friedman know Bauer’s side of the story… Think about that one, if you will! You don’t have to like Trevor Bauer… I’m not a fan. But you do have to give him Due Process and so does MLB.

P.S. It was a little over a month ago that I discussed the Dodgers GM vacancy: https://ladodgertalk.com/2021/12/12/why-the-dodgers-dont-have-a-gm/

Question?

What MLB pitcher has won the most MLB games without ever winning the Cy Young Award? This is a hard one!

This article has 79 Comments

  3. How about Mike Mussina? He pitched for almost 20 years so he must have piled up a lot of wins. And I don’t remember him winning the Cy Young although I could be wrong about that.

  7. Ryan and Sutton tied at 324 wins apiece and neither has won a Cy Young. Phil Niekro is right behind with 318. The award was not created until 1956, so any of the greats who came before that did not win one. This includes guys like Walter Johnson, Grover Cleveland and Christy Mathewson. All o f whom are well over 300 career wins, Johnson is over 400.

  8. Cy Young won 511 games and never won the award named after him. I guess you could call it a trick question.

  12. This is what I love about your site Mark. We Dodger fans get to understand so much more from writers who are fans and not media people. Looking very forward to seeing the next group of young guys come up. Thanks for the Bauer update – seems he has been lost in the cobwebs for awhile. Personally I think he will pitch for the Dodgers at some time this year, although $40 million to this ownership group is like you and I paying a $200 speeding ticket so maybe not. Did you ever try the Roesti Recipe?

  13. Will the real Cody Bellinger please step up! I’d like to get everyone’s opinion on Bellinger and his bat in 2022. Is he 850-900 OPS all star Bellinger? Is he league average Belli or Mendoza Belli? I believe the low nineties middle middle fastball will be the defining factor. Does he rip it like pre 2020 Bellinger or foul it off like 20 and 21 Bellinger. I really liked his post season 2 strike approach last year and hope that he carries that through this year. I’m rooting for the best from him! Thoughts?

    1. I am already on record that Cody will put up 6+ WAR so I would imagine his OPS will be .850+.

      He will be fine.

  15. As soon as Gomes was named GM, I remembered your article. You hit the nail on the head on that one and I think you also hit the nail on the head on this one. The thing I find strange is that the DA hasn’t moved on this. I guess he’s too busy releasing criminals back onto our streets so they can loot Union Pacific. I don’t fully trust our Commissioner to do the right thing and act based on facts and evidence. He just got a broadcaster fired, he suspended Julio without any evidence he did anything wrong and he suspended Joe Kelly for more days than anyone on the Astros and he didn’t even hit one of them. Manfred is a corrupt piece of excrement of a politician, so I can make any reasonable prediction about Bauer since Manfred doesn’t act reasonably. But, AF sure doesn’t look like he’s pressured to go after pitching.

  16. I generally agree with your assessment, Mark.

    I think the big question, at this point, is if TB will be welcomed back by the club. Players and management. Regardless if his actions were criminal they certainly were reckless. Gone are the days where players can enjoy a friendly media with regards to their personal life. All athletes today know this. Players in the 70s and 80s lived in a media environment where it simply wasn’t not acceptable for reporters to delve into their personal life off the field. TB is one of the highest paid players in baseball who has always gone out of his way to get media attention. His judgment is terrible. And cost the team lots of money and certainly a few games.

    The simple magnitude of the amount of money he is owed will likely play the deciding role. But I am not certain the team wants TB, and his personality, back in the clubhouse.

    1. I get all that, but… Only two people in the world know what actually happened. One of them hasn’t spoken about it yet. The other is a proven habitual liar that was deemed by a judge to have misled the court. Maybe think twice before deciding what was “wrong” and “uncalled for”.

      I do not know what Bauers’ story will be, and neither do his teammates. That is what this all rests upon.

      1. I know he hasn’t spoken about details. But what isn’t in dispute is he was hooking up with random women off Instagram. Anybody in the media spotlight knows that kind of thing is a recipe for disaster.

        Goes back to what my grandfather always told me.

        “You can’t get your tittie in a twist if you don’t take your shirt off”.

        Contrary to our current culture, I still believe that bad thing usually happen to people who make bad decisions.

        1. It was a Very, Very bad decision.

          Bad things have already happened.

          It could get badder… or better!

          The DA needs to make a decision and then it will be on.

        2. you may want to check yourself on that belief as the worse things also happen to the undeserving. When I hear generalizations like this gets me to thinking of all the examples to the opposite. It’s hard for me to get away from all the examples that keep popping in my head. So I’ll just give one…..Anne Frank. But I also get your point. My mind makes me my own worse enemy.

  17. I have always been in the Bauer camp, and would welcome him back with open arms.

    I have zero interest in his or any other player’s love or personal lives.
    It appears to me that the young lady managed to achieve what she set out to do, which was derail both TB’s and the LAD’s season, notwithstanding that at that point it was assumed that ourselves and the Padres would be going toe to toe all season.

    It has been said that “certain players” were not keen to have him back.
    I don’t buy this at all. He seemed to get on just fine during his short tenure last year, and seemed well liked by his colleagues, who probably viewed him in the same way as me, in that him Pitching for us, gives us a far better chance of success than without! And I’m pretty sure that’s gonna be the same opinion the minute he walks back through the clubhouse door.

    Putting any emotion aside, our Rotation has a gaping hole in it without him, and suddenly becomes a top three staff with him in it.

    If he’s innocent, he has to be given the same treatment as anybody else, and return to work ASAP.

    We’ve all made bad judgment calls, and yes he was certainly naive, but one incident shouldn’t define him, just as it shouldn’t define anybody else in the rest of their lives.

    Let’s hope he’s back soon and winning games.

      1. Manny Ramirez throws a 64 year old staff person to the ground because he wouldn’t give Manny extra guests tickets and refuses to play in order to force Boston to trade him. Dodger fans wear copycat dreadlocks and buy his jersey.

        Bauer embarasses the MLB and the Dodgers with his personal life decisions and most in here want him back.

        Correa was willing to listen to drum beats that might correctly tell him what pitch was called and when called out tells everybody to stick it in their ear. He gets big hits and points to his watch saying it is his time to get a big payday. History says that if the Dodgers sign him and he plays well, fans won’t take long to cheer him.

  19. John Kennedy, Bill Clinton and others have had their sexual exploits (While they were married!) and been forgiven. Why not Bauer?

    1. Kennedy’s picadillos were not public knowledge. All of that came out long after he was assassinated. The secret service knew, but they adored the guy, so they covered a lot of it up. Clinton was under threat of impeachment. He was out of office before any real backlash could hurt him politically. Bauer was on twitter all of the time, no charges have been filled yet, but the case is far from settled. SO fans are not in a forgiving mood right now with all the other crap going on in this country. If no charges are filled and he is not suspended, fans will probably come back. But, with so many athletes in the spot light for all the wrong reasons including more than just a few baseball players, the fans are not a happy bunch right now.

      1. Clinton was impeached, Nixon was not. As the saga of Bauer continues, it seems to me any which way he has one hell of a case against MLB even if he’s prosecuted and found guilty. Manfred acted far beyond what we should allow as common populace. When we allow rights to be ignored and ruled against just because we don’t like the person, what goes around comes around.

  20. Bauer Schmauer.

    Yesterday was the great day as we got to watch the Packers lose! Now go Rams today so we can have this NFC Title game in LA next Sunday!

        1. It is rumored that he is taking over to be Stafford’s Center. I hear he has experience!

  21. The MLBPA is presenting their counter proposal to the MLB tomorrow. Tuesday we will get the results of the Hall of Fame vote. At least there is some real baseball news coming. I care less about Bauer. And will feel the same until he is either back on the team, or suspended. He was a strikeout machine, but he also was giving up HR’s at a staggering rate. I saw him give up 4 in one stint at Coors. He might have made the difference. But it was the offense that sucked the most in the playoffs. Guys they counted on did not produce. JT, Trea, Seager, even Smith, did not have great post season numbers. Most of the production came from three guys, Pollock, Taylor and Bellinger. Muncy was out, the bench was pitiful. They truly missed Kike and Joc. Souza Raley, McKinney, Reks, none of them contributed anything. Maybe a healthy McKinstry would have helped some, but the composition of the bench was not very good. Oh, Pujols did have a couple of nice games, especially when Taylor slugged his three homers, but getting in a 1-3 hole with your offense sputtering and your pitching falling apart, well, you are not going to win much.

      1. Yes it will. He loved it in LA. I think he contributed a lot to the team, especially in the clubhouse. He was one of the most enthusiastic guys on the bench, and was consistently talking with the other players. And how about those hugs?? The last one he gave Taylor on that 3 homer night was huge.

  22. The entire TB saga is such a sham! Due process be damned and guilty until proven innocent according to MLB. Didn’t seem MLB had a problem with Puig’s female issues. What goes on between consenting adults in the privacy of their intimate lives is not for public scrutiny. Is it the wisest choice in TB’s position as a celebrity to engage with what seemed to be at best an obvious MLB groupie or at worst a conniving female looking for a payday? Clearly, with the hindsight of 20/20 …NO ! It also seemed the female judge who REJECTED the “victim’s”,request for a permanent restraining order agreed that this woman was requesting rough sex and was not an innocent party resulting in her injuries. Does this make TB a chronic woman a abuser due to this and that other unsubstantiated incident from Ohio a few years ago ? Hell NO ! This is no way intended to pour any water on legitimate domestic abuse which should be always taken seriously as this case has and it’s becoming painfully obvious that no crime as committed. How it takes the incompetent LA DA’s office this long to make a decision is ludicrous! Like TB or not he was and still is desperately needed in the Dodgers’ 2022 rotation! 2021 may have had a different outcome if the Dodgers had another capable starter in October. TB definitely rubs some people including teammates the wrong way with his confidence and bravado but let’s not judge this young man on some personal indiscretion that let’s be honest, most people have done even worse. You don’t have to hang out with TB or be his buddy but he sure looks good taking the ball every 5th day. There have been much worse people as athletes allowed to play professional sports with much less punishment that TB has ALREADY received!

    1. Totally agree with what you said. Not much has been said about the woman involved and nothing at all about the San Diego Padres(Tatis Jr?) involvement.

  23. Bear,

    I wonder how many of us have attended a Dodger old timers game or better yet a Hollywood all stars vs the media (radio and newspapers) all stars. I once got to see Vinnie pitch an inning or two in one of those games. I would describe him as a stylish lefthander.

    Those were fun attractions. I wonder if you could find enough information for a story about them.
    Thanks in advance Bear
    I love your posts.

  25. Aside from the moral complications (which I will never forgive TB), the real problem is that someone could have been killed! And TB would have been responsible, whether or not he meant to hurt her. How can TB know how long she can go between breaths? Is he a doctor?

    It seems to me he risked losing his freedom by following the judgment of his “little brain.” He risked losing his career. And what I find most unforgivable, he jeopardized the entire team’s season. He caused embarrassment to his teammates.

    While it would be convenient to have another starting pitcher (who gives up a lot of home runs and is prone to sudden meltdowns), I would prefer Kershaw or Miller or Pepiot. Better yet, one of Oakland’s finest, if they’re selling.

    Just an old Dodger girl’s opinion.

    1. Marcia,

      I appreciate your viewpoint and a woman’s perspective. There are too many good ole’ boys in here and you are certainly welcome.

      If Bauer choked her out, I have a problem with that. She has said he did. He has not said it and he has not yet had to refute it, although I suspect the answer is in the Police Report. For the record, I am not ok with that kind of activity… but I don’t know if it is criminal or just sadistic and stupid. I have a son-in-law who is a black belt in Brazillian Jiu-jitsu.

      On a routine basis, they choke others out. I do not like that and do not find it even mildly amusing or entertaining. A long time ago, my daughter and he were wrestling and he was threatening to choke her out and she didn’t care. I told him, you better not do that crap around me to my daughter. He stopped.

      I do not know what happened between Bauer and the woman. If her story is true, he should rot in hell. If it’s not, she should. I know that a woman’s life can be wrecked by things that happen, but I also know women can wreck others’ lives. I am just waiting for all the evidence to be available.

      The fact that the DA hasn’t charged him and the Judge scolded the woman for not being truthful does tell me that this is possibly a moral, not a criminal issue. I am not on Bauer’s side – I am on the side of justice.

  26. Will the players will accept Bauer back? If they’re overwhelming against it, I think Friedman will respect their feelings and they’ll keep Bauer benched at home (paid) and will look for a trade suitor. If the charges drop, I’m sure someone will want him provided the Dodgers pay a big chunk of the remaining money. Bauer will have to convince the clubhouse he’s as guiltless as he’s hinting. Admitting the physical stuff happened, but it was consensual probably won’t get a pass based on the personalities of the team. Wonder what kind of ground work he’s doing with the players trying to re-establish trust, if anything? I’m sure his attorney is advising him to stay holed up.

  27. There is no actual news on Trevor Bauer. Just speculation. Lots and lots of speculation.
    Will Bauer be charged? Just a guess, no he won’t. The DA, who is facing recall, has bigger problems. The case is unlikely to produce a conviction.

    What he did was sell out his teammates by doing something incredibly dumb. He had to know that it could go bad and embarrass the Dodgers who are paying him a lot of money to be focused on helping them win a championship, not create a circus. I don’t know what he actually did, very true.

    But I think his judgement was beyond bad. He let down his teammates, the organization and the fans. Have no desire to see him playing for the Dodgers again.

    Guilty or not, he was given a golden opportunity. He blew it. Time to move on.

    1. You got to wake up pretty early in the morning to catch me peeking through your bedroom window.

  28. Many here post about the “presumption of innocence” and the standard for being charged with a crime without apparently knowing what they mean.
    1 – The presumption only applies in criminal cases. It will not apply to MLB’s investigation or any punishment that results therefrom. Mostly, they use a preponderance of the evidence standard – 50% + 1.
    2 – Crimes aren’t just against victims. They are against society. That’s why criminal cases are called The People v. Bauer (or whomever). Even if the woman isn’t honest or acted out of suspect motives, consent may not matter. You can’t consent to murder, etc.
    3 – It’s the same thing with MLB. IT has to decide whether its standards have been violated, or whether the terms of his contract with the Dodgers (which will include a “morals clause”) or the MLB CBA. This has nothing to do with innocence or guilt of a criminal offense.
    4 – MLB’s decision will be based in part of the jury of public opinion. Bauer already looks bad. He hasn’t been able to address every allegation yet due to the fact that the DA hasn’t decided whether to charge him, but some of the stuff that he has admitted looks bad. “Bauer denies anything nonconsensual occurred between them, which his representatives expect him reiterate at a July 23 hearing. In a statement, Bauer’s reps said, in part, “Mr. Bauer had a brief and wholly consensual sexual relationship initiated by [the woman] beginning in April 2021. We have messages that show [the woman] repeatedly asking for ‘rough’ sexual encounters involving requests to be ‘choked out’ and slapped in the face. ” (Los Angeles Magazine, 7/1/21.) So this is what he has admitted to – not just rumor and innuendo. The question here is how much brutal punishment that the other party may consent to.
    5 – There is the jury of the clubhouse as well. We don’t know what other players will put up with, but we know that one of the 1st things that Friedman did after he got to LA was to weed out the malcontents and bad actors.
    6 – Then there is the jury of team owners. Will the owners of the Dodgers want their “brand” represented by someone who has admitted to doing, at the very least, what Bauer has admitted?

    1. 1. The presumption of innocence is itself an extension of the idea that laws and punishment need to be consistent and applied equally, or the law loses credibility. While true that baseball is not subject to criminal law’s threshold, it’s still in Manfred’s best interest to appear to mete our penalties in a non-arbitrary way and apply some sort of precedent. I don’t know that there’s precedent for what Bauer did, but considering Ozuna was on film throwing his girlfriend to the floor in the presence of police officers and he got two weeks, it’s difficult to argue the Bauer penalty should be so much more severe when accounting for the fact that the female victim literally requested those acts.

      2. It’s not murder. Context and consent are everything. A playful slap on a partner’s tush during intimacy would, under another circumstances and without consent, be sexual battery. There’s a whole industry for the manufacture and sale of things like leather handcuffs, whips and other sadomasochistic bondage type stuff, not only legal but almost socially acceptable. Absent context, tying someone down and whipping her for sexual gratification is the most heinous sex crime imaginable. The difference is consent. In Bauer’s case, one sticking point is him committing acts while she was unconscious. I suppose, too, from your argument, there is a case of when small violent acts that are consented to nevertheless simply become too violent. Not sure that there is good case law for this. Where is the threshold? I dunno.

      3. Players have some recourse to this lest any morals clause be used arbitrarily to nullify a contract. Again, there needs to be established precedent about what any morals clause entails and when it should be used. If not, then the owners abuse it.

      4. Jury of public opinion, or, more specifically, how much negative PR will the Dodgers get, how long will it persist in the media and with how much amplitude, and is it not worth keeping Bauer for that reason. They may have already decided he’s gone for this reason. On the other hand, Bauer is maybe the most media savvy player in the game, and has very good legal representation. The mere prospect of Bauer contesting any harsh penalty, both legally and in the media, is also something the Dodgers – and baseball – would want to scrupulously avoid. Maybe best to quietly reinstate him with a milder, mutually agreed upon penalty and manage any fallout from that.

      5. Puig was a malcontent because he was lazy, defied authority, didn’t follow instructions, made mental errors and was emotionally weak – and these traits were detrimental to a winning organization because they risk spreading. By nearly all accounts, Bauer has an extremely high work ethic, is devoted to his craft and was generally a good teammate. It may be true that he’s lost the clubhouse and bringing him back would hurt that chemistry. If he does come back I would anticipate that he acknowledges that what he did was wrong and apologizes to the clubhouse privately.

      6. Probably not, but time changes things.

  30. If a woman asked me to lightly spank her butt, sure, I’d do it.

    If a woman asked me to punch her vagina? Regardless of how many times she asked? I won’t do it because I’m not a complete and total idiot. I don’t find that sexy, sexual, or even remotely feasible in my mind.

    If Bauer did in fact willfully and intentionally punch a woman’s vagina, it shows me he’s an utter piece of trash human being. I don’t care if he had consent. Morals, common sense, and the lack of stupidity on my part would prevent me from saying “uhhhh ok, if you want me to punch you in the vagina, I guess I have consent so I’ll do it”

    Even if she set him up. Even if the Padres helped set him up. Even if she was awake and said “keep punching my vagina”. My gut would tell me to get the hell out of that situation. Perhaps I have more respect for women than he does.

    I don’t go around punching women in the vagina, and I don’t go around grabbing women by the p###y. Some men are trash, but thankfully most aren’t.

    Bauer may have a very good legal case that he was set up, that rough sex was consensual, and/or it was the norm for him and this woman. But moral case? He’s trash. I’m guessing JT, Kersh, Kenley, and others found that to be beyond idiotic and hence dind’t want him back. I’m also quite sure that although Friedman knows he took a risk signing Bauer, he never in his wildest dreams imagined this.

    1. You have to respect yourself also. I think the guy loves publicity. This time he got the wrong kind. Also, going on social media seeking a sexual hookup is asking for trouble. If nothing else, he is stupid.

  31. How about this, since 2010, the Dodgers have won more games than any other team in the majors, 1068. That is 22 wins more than the Yankees. Over that time the Giants are 111 games behind them. The Padres are under .500 at 855-987. 213 games back. Colorado is 216 games back. The Marlins and the Orioles are the only two teams with 1000 or more losses over that period.

  32. Reading some of the commentary leading up to the HOF announcement I can’t help but see parallels with TB. There seems to be a great deal of inconstancy with regard to how baseball, as a sport, handles players with perceived behavior issues.

    The roids issues has been beat like a dead horse, so I won’t ‘go over that again. Even though voters seemed inclined to give Big Pappy a free pass on that all together.

    I find the case for Curt Shilling interesting in this context. Several lesser players (in my opinion) have been inducted since he was eligible. His career stats certainly are compelling. His post season stats are even more compelling. But the issues is his personal opinions and social media behavior. And he certainly hasn’t helped himself in that regards. He also has had some spectacular business failures that haven’t exactly helped his reputation (or his net worth). His arrest associated with a political PAC also hasn’t helped. But none of these things are baseball related. And none of these controversies existed during his playing career. They never hurt any of his teams. And none of those controversies rise to the level of gambling, steriods or spousal abuse. The primary issues that keep people out of the HOF.

    TB, on the other hand, did hurt his team with his off the field behavior. Now the situation is different as TB’s issues are taking place during his playing career and have nothing to do with the HOF. But TB’s behavior hurt his team. Both financially and in terms not having him available in the rotation. In my mind, when bad (not necessarily illegal) behavior has a negative effect on a player’s team it rises to a different level.

    I just find the inconsistent application of the sports “ethics” to be concerning. Shilling is largely Persona Non Grata for political opinions he expressed after he retired. None of that ever hurt his team. He was a key part of several WS championship teams. In my mind, that should be a significant factor. Did a player’s perceived moral infractions effect baseball? Did bad decisions (or poor judgment on social media) effect the team that was paying the players salary? In Shillings case, it did not. Yet he’s paying a heavy price.

    Anyway, I just thought I would throw that out there.

    Interesting time we live in.

    2. Ortiz was linked to steroids, but never tested positive and the link was never proven true, therefore writers tend to not link him to that era. He played his entire career after steroids were outlawed in baseball, unlike Rodriguez and Bonds and others. As for Schilling, his post season record is excellent. He has over 3000 K’s, 15th on the all time list. But writers tend to dis players who are as vocal as he is. They hold it as some flaw in character. 300 wins used to be the standard for election to the hall for pitchers. That has changed since Koufax went in with 165. He was elected solely on the strength of his final six seasons because the first six were not that great. There are a lot of borderline players in the hall now, with several elected over the last few years. It is fast becoming the Hall of the very good, not the greats. Schilling was very good.

      1. I actually agree. The HOF has been degraded. Lower standards.

        My point is not specifically about Shilling. And his qualifications. I would argue that 10 years ago he’s not a HOFer. But the HOF has actually become the Hall of Very Good. Based on many of the recent inductees.

        My point is more about the contradictions. I do believe Shilling would have made the HOF already had it not been for his political positions. Based on recent HOF inductees. Which, in my mind, isn’t kosher. It’s the reason he’s being rejected that bothers me.

        Let me be clear. I completely disagree with his political positions (which shouldn’t matter) I’ve found his behavior on social media reckless. Not smart. But also nothing to do with baseball. Or his time as a player.

        I find a culture that has developed in the last decade or so, where “right think” is now the litmus test. That’s not how this should work.

        This has become endemic is society on every level. My view is that what a person was in terms of the game they played and how they performed should be what they are judged at. Pete Rose, he bet on baseball as a manger. Still baseball. Zero excuse. I have no sympathy. Bonds, Sosa, Clemens…What they did was documented. Historical. It was what they did as ballplayers. Not after.

        What I don’t get it the judgment about what the players “think” after they retired. I have a problem with that. Even if I don’t agree with “what they think”. I don’t agree with Shilling. I believe he’s misguided and reckless (especially in his own interest). But none of that is baseball.

        I simply don’t agree with how we are handling any of this.

        I don’t agree with how our society is handling any of this.

        But I’m this context. The HOF has lost its way.

  33. The MLPBA has allegedly made some concessions on the FA discussion but both Drelich and Passan described the meetings between MLB and MPBPA as “contentious and heated.”

    They’re scheduled to meet again tomorrow. Just spitballing here, but I think they got about a 10-14 day window to come to an agreement or ST is sure to get impacted with games canceled and perhaps a delay to the start of the regular season. Just a guess

    1. Well, we don’t have specifics, but I think both sides realize they had better resolve this… and soon. I think they are both backing off some positions. I give it a week!

  35. Revenue Sharing issues for me are the most interesting aspect of these negotiations. The owners don’t agree on how to go forward and the players and the big market team owners are on the same page. It is the small market owners that are alone but winning the negotiations.

    Losing teams that have large payrolls are basically using bankruptcy to reboot. They sell off higher paid tallent, save revenue sharing handouts, race to the bottom of the standings so they can be first in line to draft prospects.

    I hope that at least the first 5 draft picks are chosen by lottery with all teams allowed into the lottery.

  36. The P-51 Mustang isn’t the best looking airplane but it’s the greatest fighter ever built It’s beauty is in the facts not in it’s appearance. We don’t have the facts on TB as of yet and MLB has already taken quite a slice of what shelf life a pitcher has. Sports careers are not long usually and to take one at their prime should be more than being accused. I hope TB sues MLB and we get a change in it’s management.

    1. P-51 was a beauty, and the best airplane of it’s era. First warplane to shoot down a jet too. Pilots of P-51’s downed a couple of the ME -262’s.

      1. Bear: The ME-262 was first in combat late in the war. Not to take anything away from the P-51 but the German pilots may not have been experienced as our pilots. Most of their aces had been killed and their pilot resources were not too deep.

    2. Quas: If you’re talking about piston engine fighters like the P-51, yes I agree. But my favorite fighter during WWII has to be the German ME-262. However what that has to do with TB is beyond my understanding. Perhaps you can enlighten me.

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