The Rays are in the WS for a reason. They are good and they never quit. Let me get the negative out of the way. I have been a Dave Roberts supporter throughout the postseason, but I have also said that there is no way that I would bring Pedro Baez in with runners on base. You want to make a change from Treinen? Okay, that was at least an arguable decision. Where was Jake McGee? Where was Victor Gonzalez? I do not need a book to tell me, I just remember that seemingly every time Baez comes in with runners on base in the postseason dating back to 2014 NLDS G1, most of them score. But I went back and checked.
| Year | Game | IR | IRS |
| – | |||
| 2014 | NLDS Game 1 | 1 | 1 |
| 2015 | NLDS Game 1 | 3 | 2 |
| 2016 | NLDS Game 1 | 1 | 0 |
| 2016 | NLDS Game 2 | 2 | 0 |
| 2016 | NLDS Game 1 | 3 | 1 |
| 2018 | WS Game 1 | 1 | 0 |
| 2019 | NLDS Game 4 | 2 | 2 |
| 2020 | NLCS Game 2 | 2 | 2 |
| 2020 | WS Game 4 | 2 | 2 |
| Totals | 17 | 10 |
Before WS Game 4, more than 50% of inherited runners scored off Baez in the postseason. I am sorry but that is unacceptable to bring him in with runners on in the WS. The outcome was more than predictable. A three run HR to Brandon Lowe. Apparently Baez has something on Doc as he comes out again in the 7th and gives up a HR to Kevin Kiermaier. You have more access to information than I do, and there is no way I would have brought Baez in with runners on base. Shame on Doc on this one.
Adam Kolarek has not pitched in 10 days, and the rust showed. In the 8th, he issues a 4-pitch walk to Ji-Man Choi, but gets Austin Meadows on a routine flyball to CF and strikes out of Brandon Lowe. Enter The Bazooka. He gives up a bloop single to Willy Adames but gets Hunter Renfroe to hit a lazy fly ball to Mookie to end the 8th.
And then the unthinkable. Graterol was warm and threw all of 7 pitches in the 8th but the decision was to go to KJ. The inevitable happened. A Kevin Kiermaier broken bat single, and then a walk to Arozarena puts runners on 1st and 2nd with 2 outs. With two runners on and LHH Brett Phillips coming up. Again, where is Jake McGee? Victor Gonzalez? A bloop single, an overrun of the ball in CF by CT3 and then a missed throw at the plate, and two runners score for the walk off. Quick to pull everyone other than Baez and Jansen. So Doc this one is on you. You just know he is going to say how good KJ’s pitches were, and the Rays got a broken bat and bloop single off two good pitches. Trevor Rosenthal might have looked good in the 9th as a Dodger.
Earlier, Randy Arozarena hit his postseason record breaking 9th HR and Hunter Renfroe hit a bomb, both off Julio Urias. Julio was not great, but he wasn’t bad. The two HRs were crushed, and I wasn’t second guessing why Doc pulled Julio for Treinen after he had 2 K’s of Mike Zunino and Kiermaier before being lifted. He had already struck out Yandy Diaz twice. What was the urgency? But okay, this is the WS.
I am not second guessing Will Smith at catcher, but would the pitchers have been better off with Barnes behind the plate? Does Barnes miss the throw home? I think you have to ask those questions, and a decision needs to be made as to whether Barnes should finish the WS behind the dish.
There were some positives. Corey Seager continues to be ultra-hot, with four more hits including his 8th HR of the postseason, including the go ahead RBI single on a 2-2 pitch with 2 outs in the 8th off generally extremely reliable Nick Anderson. Justin Turner had a four hit night of his own, including a second consecutive 1st inning HR. This is a breakout postseason for Seager, but more of the same for the consistent JT. Seager is now batting .500/.632/.929/1.560 with only 1 K in 18 PA, and JT is batting .444/.474/1.000/1.474 in the WS. While not at the same level as Seager and JT, the role players Joc, CT3, and Kike’, had key hits in the game. Joc had a 2 run single and Kike’ an RBI single and CT3 an 8th inning leadoff double and later scored on Seager’s 2 out single. Muncy had another RBI single. Joc had another hit in the 9th for a 2 hit night.
Two Dodgers drew the collar in Game 4. Mookie has an 0-5 night, but makes another great catch to rob Brandon Lowe of an extra base hit. Belli went 0-4 and is now batting .133/.235/.333/.569 and 2 RBIs in the WS. If he is not playing defense, do you consider Joc who is 3-8 as the DH.
The Dodgers faced 6 Rays relievers and scored on four of them. But unfortunately they only plated 4 of 16 RISP, and had 10 LOB. And even more unfortunately, Pedro Baez and Kenley Jansen blew another postseason game for the Dodgers. At what point do you say NEVER AGAIN?
The pitch location was just terrible on that last pitch… Will was set up high and inside… but Kenley missed and left it middle in. The count was 1-2… that ball shouldn’t have been anywhere near the strike zone. He missed badly on the Kiermaier single… left it over the plate again. And Kenley shockingly left two over the middle of the plate to Arozarena too… but he looked at one and fouled the other off. He has done this so often over the last few years… it is beyond frustrating.
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Watching the replays again… all the damage against us was done on pitches that caught way too much of the plate. A lot of this seemed to be bad execution by our pitchers… but I did also notice that our pitchers were shaking off Will’s signs a bit throughout the game… not sure if they do that as often with Austin.
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I would definitely be in favor of having Austin catch the remaining games and Will DHing or pinch hitting. Btw… Will is batting .176 in this series, as of tonight.
Despite coming within 1 pitch of getting a save, Jensen lacked velocity and had little bite on his breaking pitch. The obvious move would have been to go lefty on lefty after he walked Arozarena.
I keep wanting Kenley to succeed and yes the hits werent hard but here are a couple things to notice. Kenley made a good pitch just outside on Arezarena. He hit his spot for one of the few times. Then Smith set up even further outside. It was a totally non-competitive pitch and really no intention to be. There’s no way he’s going to chase that far outside. What does that say about confidence in the pitcher?
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Second, against Phillips all he had to do was get the ball above his hands. You absolutely don’t miss in the zone there. Just like game 2 of 2017 WS he did not execute the same pitch and the same pitch he’s had problems executing for a couple of years now.
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I’m taking my chance with 100 mph over a guy with less velo and can’t hit his spots and they lack so much confidence in they set up 2 feet outside on a pitch.
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The experienced team shit the bed in the 9th.
Did Roberts explain not having Graterol come back out in the 9th in his post game conference?
Maybe fatalistic, but it sure feels like they lost the series tonight.
Ray are definitely at the advantage now with the top of their rotation ready to go.
A good review, Jeff, with statistics for backing. I don’t have any, but I know from memory that Baez is not a reliable pitcher, he has a good game or two and then on not so good, where he gives up a bunch of runs, often on home runs. Bringing him out for another inning was almost incomprehensible. And Graterol should have started the ninth, I think, because it is not like Jansen has been impressive in the late season.
The meta-issue, as they say, is the bullpen ,and why the ownership and management does not make sure that we have one of the best bullpens in baseball. We do not, that should be obvious. And I am not impressed by regular season statistics, particularly in a short season where we were better than almost everyone we played. If we want to go back and look at our playoff failures and disappointments over the last 30 years, it almost always comes down the the bullpen. I don’t remember all the names, but I do remember Broxton, Elbert, Jansen, Baez, Kelly, Jansen again. And there were others. Of course all teams blow saves at times, and no closer is perfect. But we keep going out there with someone who we keep saying is our closer, but who has struggled for three years, so much that we did not use him in any key situation in the World Series last year, and then every time he pitches decently, people say that he is back to his form in 2016-2017, but he is not. We use him partly because of sentimentality, and partly because we have one else we trust to close. Yes, losing Ferguson hurt, but every team has a loss like that, and he wasn’t a closer. We bring in people, but never a bona fide closer; and with rare exception (Morrow, and he was a well-placed longshot), we never even bring in a legitimate setup man. We keep falling back to using Baez. It is almost laughable, but it is actually rather pathetic, for this organization with all that money.
i know nothing about cars, but i know that if you have a really fancy car with top parts, but you have bad tires, or even just one, you will have a breakdown or an accident. A baseball team does not need 20 all-stars, but it absolutely needs a top bullpen. And we are proving it again, with a great lineup, but a team which is very likely to lose the World Series to a lesser team with a great bullpen, and a manager who masterfully uses it. Maybe our goal is to be a lesson for all the other franchises.
This organization was always proud of its bullpens, from Hugh Casey, to Joe Black, to Clem Labine, Larry Sherry, Ron Perranoski, Ed Roebuck, Phil Regan, Jim Brewer, Steve Howe. Many of our tittles have featured great bullpen work. But for whatever reason; counting pennies, laziness, vain hope that it will all work out, oversentimentality, all or some of those, we keep going into each season with a bullpen with holes in it. And eventually it catches up with us. We lose leads, and we lose games in the late innings. Tonight we led 2-0, then 4-2, then Baez gave up a three-run homer and we trailed 5-4. Then we took the lead 6-5 (why was Bellinger trying for third with two outs?), then Baez gave up another homer. Then we took a 7-6 lead, and Jansen gave up two runs , yes, one we screwed up, but it would have been tied, and we likely would have lost anyway with our bullpen. So that is why I worried about the bullpen all season, and why I never trusted the regular season work, and why I have complained for at least two years that not enough was done to fix the bullpen. And like a faulty valve in the car, it inevitably comes up to thwart all the other good parts we have. And for this organization to allow this each year,, is really unforgivable, at least within the realm of sports. If Tampa Bay can build that kind of bullpen, if the Yankees can mostly buy one, why can’t we? is there some rule that it would be too arrogant of us to try to have a great bullpen, we might win too easily? I’m being only partly sarcastic here, I have this sense that ownership never wants us to be truly great, born out by the fact that we do not win multiple titles as some franchises do, and actually we don’t win any.
This felt like a repeating nightmare, or like a scene from a horror movie when the killer keeps coming back, just when you think it’s dead. Now they will need to regroup, and come back strong today. It will be a test of their mental toughness. But however they handle this, I don’t know how much more I can take!
The Dodgers will toss and turn all night, no sleep, might feel it tomorrow. The Rays are gonna sleep like babies.
I noticed that Will Smith didn’t toss his mask when the play at home developed.
His peripheral vision therefore was limited, and he rushed his reception of the throw because he didn’t see the runner fall down.
The throw from Muncy was terrible,
Smith was doing too much with it, and was trying make a fantastic catch and tag.
When will Roberts ever learn. The Dodgers have a narrow lead at a critical juncture of WS game 4. He brings in anti reliever (Baez) known to blow leads. Ask any Dodger faithful. At that moment, Anxiety hit, knowing that disaster was about to strike and did on schedule. Following the three run jack, I ask myself, what is this F…ing manager thinking? The boys in Blue rally. Then, as if in a surreal nightmare, anti reliever returns the next inning, throwing another home run pitch! Did this really just happen? As the game progressed, epic play unfolded. Two awesome teams battling away, the Dodgers though, clearly the better. Enter the bottom of the ninth, the Dodgers leading 7/6. No, please No!! On comes KJ. The supposedly improved version of himself. Who’s kidding who? Why is he in there with a one run lead? Did not want to immerse myself in condescending thoughts but somehow I knew this outcome would not be favorable for Dodger nation. Two outs, two on. Up comes a hitter that hasn’t seen much time at the plate. Easy out right. Naw, bloop single. Error by Chris Taylor, relay throw from Muncy to Will Smith looked liked a slider that eluded Smiths glove. Two runs in, game over. Rays prevail 8/7. Position players botched it? Yes and No. The way I see it, the game was handed to the Rays when Roberts inserted Baez then polished it off with KJ in the ninth. The Rays didn’t beat the Dodgers. The Dodgers did!
Couple thoughts. I thought Urias looked good and this stretches back over several consecutive starts/appearances. Yes, he was at 80 pitches, but he went for 101 against Atlanta almost two weeks ago and was coming off 5 days rest. I thought he deserved the benefit of doubt, especially considering our bullpen’s prior performance this series. As it ended up, I thought his 5th inning stuff was better than any of the subsequent pitchers. Live and hopefully learn.
I’ll be interested to see if they go back to using Urias, May, Gonsolin in middle/late relief over the final three games. If it makes game 7, maybe everyone but Buehler gets an inning. Gonsolin and May are struggling too, but in room full of struggling pitchers, I’ll take odds on the guys with the best stuff. This is where we maybe miss Maeda and Stripling, getting thru innings 6-8, especially if our starters aren’t allowed to go deep.
My safest bet of the night was Joc getting a hit over Bellinger in the 7th, so I’m glad they walked Bellinger. Joc looks back to me and maybe for awhile now. Bellinger has one of the sweetest looking swings in the league when he connects, and conversely one of the ugliest when he doesn’t. He needs an offseason of fine tuning more than anyone. I sure wish he would have played in CF, not only for the last play but there were some bloopers he might have gotten to as well. I’m not sure why balls are carrying further now in this ballpark as the air gets cooler. Some of those Rays shots seemed like deep fly outs coming off the bat, but just carried. Against the Padres, we were just clearing the fence, now hitting into the 2nd level stands. Tough call on the Muncy would-be double. It’s natural instinct to reach out if you’re falling, so I don’t think it was deviously deliberate by Adames, but it was still a foul.
It was gut wrenching to watch. I am not going to make excuses for anyone, not going to blame anyone either. This is baseball. Stuff like this happens every year. Last night it happened to the Dodgers. Shake it off and go from there. I do put some blame on the offense for leaving far too many runners on base. For every two out run they scored, they left a man in scoring position. You get a runner to second with no outs and he stays there, that is on the offense. But Kershaw is up next, and even as bad as the night was, they are still in this and can still win. They win tomorrow, and you can bet Buehler will be pitching game 6.
But the Dodgers DID score 7 runs. How can Roberts send Baez. who just gave up a 3-run dinger, out to start another inning in the World Series? It isn’t like there was no one else to pitch, Graterol/Gonzales/McGee/May/Gonsolin all could have pitched, along the with the other less acceptable choices. He pulled Urias, Treinen, and Graterol all too quickly, but leaves Baez in?
They left 22 men on base. Yeah, the BP gave up the lead 3 times. Roberts took the blame for sending Baez back out there. That is on him. But the offense left way too many runs out there. And they did almost all their scoring with 2 outs. Simply because someone would get in scoring position and then not get moved over. Too many guys left on. If Mookie is not involved in the offense as was the case last night, they usually lose. The difference in Betts BA in wins and losses is amazing. He hits .344 in wins and .240 in losses. He was 0-5 last night.
Even though what you say is accurate, 7 runs should be enough to beat a team that is batting .214 in the playoffs. We do have a number of excellent pitchers available in relief: Graterol/Gonzales/McGee/May/Gonsolin/Treinen.
Use them instead of Jansen, Baez and Kelly. This is the World Series, Roberts chooses his pitchers more like it’s Spring Training!
Good–> 2 Out RBI’s: 7
Not So Good–> Team RISP: 4-16 & LOB: 10
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Also, Walker has never started on 3 days rest… so him pitching in game 6 would not be the ideal situation. So that turns Sunday night’s game into somewhat of a must win… that is, if you would like to have Walker on regular rest for a potential game 7.
Dodgers lost the game but not the series, that is up to Kershaw tonight, he wins tonight and he makes up for a lot of the past, he pitches poorly and it’s another big game where he fails.
The Dodgers need Kershaw to step up and put the team on his back and get the biggest win of his career. Let’s see what happens.
Here’s the smartest thing written about last night’s game (by Bear):
It was gut-wrenching to watch. I am not going to make excuses for anyone, not going to blame anyone either. This is baseball. Stuff like this happens every year. Last night it happened to the Dodgers. Shake it off and go from there. >/i>
I fail to understand the compulsion to always have to blame someone… anyone. There’s plenty of blame to go around and I blame the DODGERS! The players, the team, but this is the strange game of baseball. In the 9th, Kenley turns a bat into a toothpick and give up a bloop hit. I don’t blame them for walking Arozarena, but walks are bad. I keep hearing Kenley missed his spots – he always misses his spots, but with more movement (in the old days), it wasn’t as critical.
We could blame Roberts, for putting in the wrong pitchers. We could blame Taylor for bobbling the hit to CF. We could blame Will Smith for not catching the ball. We could blame the Dodgers for not hitting with RISP. We can blame Betts and Bellinger for being 0-9 in the game. We can blame Blake Treinen for giving up two runs, when he did.
The Dodgers pitchers held the Rays to 10 hits. The Rays pitchers gave the Dodgers’ 15 hits!
Bitch all you want about the Dodgers pitching or bullpen, but right HERE, right NOW in the 2020 World Series, the Dodgers ERA is 4.54 and the Rays ERA is 6.43! Ponder that! The Dodgers WHIP is 1.15 while the Rays is 1.66. Yet, the series is tied 2-2.
The Dodgers are hitting .282 as a team (.895 OPS) while the Rays are hitting .229 (.737 OPS). The Dodgers have outscored the Rays 25-19 and yet the series is 2-2.
Last night was a gut-wrenching, puke-your-guts-out loss, but the Series is tied and so far, the Dodgers pitching and hitting is better than the Rays. Opportunism is the difference. This ain’t the end… but it might feel like it to you.
That “bum” Pedro Baez and the “Great Nick Anderson” both have 6.75 ERA’s. Go figure!
According to FANGRAPHS, the Dodgers Bullpen ERA in the World Series is 1.64 (33 IP) while the Rays is 2.57 (29 IP). There is plenty of blame to go around, but like in game 3 when Hawkeye said they were all pulling on the same rope, this is an EPIC FAIL for the team. Can they recover? That is the question…
Barnes will start today with Clayton. Let’s hope he has some more magic. This loss feels horrible!
The walk to Arozarena was not intentional. And in my opinion the UMP totally blew a 3rd strike call. Even the game winning hit was not scorched. And believe it or not, many story’s are reporting that the call was blown. But, that is in the past. Get over it and beat them tonight. Then just for kicks, beat the guy they think is unbeatable and raise the trophy. I have a lot of faith in Kersh. I think if he is pitching as good as he did last time out, Doc will let him go at least 7.
After that last play of the game my thought was from the famous Jack Buck call on Gibson’s HR in the ’88 WS….
“I don’t believe what I just saw!!”
I had put this game in the win column and was looking forward to Kershaw closing out the series with a win today. How sweet would that have been? The final redemption for the Dodgers and especially Clayton Kershaw. But, it was not to be. Hopefully, they can regroup and crush the Rays.
Note that the Rays BP gave up 5 runs yesterday. Their top three starters can’t even go 5 innings which I think is awful for a team playing in the World Series. The combination of lack of innings from your starting pitching and overuse of the BP may be starting to catch up with the Rays. We’ll see.
The Dodgers battled back over and over again until the ninth inning. They failed offensively in the top of the inning and failed defensively in the bottom of the inning. You win as a team as they were doing the first eight innings and you lose as a team as they did in the ninth. One of the more crushing defeats in Dodger playoff history. They came back several times after failures of Doc and the bullpen. But, in the end the Rays who prevailed. Yes, Dodger fans…
“It’s time for Dodger playoff baseball….again”
Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you! That phrase epitomizes the life of a reliever. Last night the bear ate the Dodgers.
So much to ponder about last night. Notwithstanding the Dodgers’ loss, it was an unbelievably exciting game.
The post game interviews were informative. Doc took the blame for sending Baez back out. He said he pulled Treinen because “his pitches didn’t look sharp.” He admitted Baez didn’t execute his pitches and that Jansen missed his “spot.”
Jansen on the other hand arrogantly said he made the pitches he wanted to make and the Rays only got soft contact off him. Okay. That’s a matter of Interpretation.
Given the way they pitched Arozarena, why not just give him the intentional walk? Save your good pitches for Phillips.
It may not have made a difference in the outcome, but Kike’s bunt was horrible.
Some question not bringing Graterol back out, but frankly none of his pitches looked sharp, albeit there were only 7 of them.
The Dodgers need classic Kershaw tonight. While I’m an Alex Wood fan, turning to him in game 6 down 3-2 would not give me the greatest hope.
Where’s Koufax when you need him?
A couple of observations…..the 2nd out in the 9th was hit on a line to Pederson. Not sure I would call that soft contact.
Check out where Jansen is stationed while the last play unfolds….basically the best seat in the stadium as he wasn’t backing up anyone.
I like how everyone is critical of the bloopers by the Rays but ignore Seagers last RBI hit…..a blooper.
I immediately was pissed that KJ was watching the game along the 3rd base line and not backing up home. I see stuff like that as I hate the laziness of a pitcher licking his wounds and not getting his ass out of the infield and back up home (actually Doc addressed this and said KJ should have been between 3rd and home and adjust to the the throw. True. But KJ did neither)
But I watched the replay over again a few times and even if he was backing up the plate, it probably wouldn’t have mattered as the throw was coming from right field and first base, Kenley should have been behind home on the third base side. The ball went to the first base side so even if Kenley was positioned correctly, it wouldn’t have mattered. Now I’m not giving Kenley a pass because he absolutely was not positioned correctly but I just don’t think it would have mattered either way.
Had Jansen been in the proper position backing up Smith, it wouldn’t have mattered because the throw deflected off the legs of the home plate umpire and bounced towards the Dodgers on-deck circle. Regardless, he should have been there instead of being a spectator, but I don’t think it would have made a difference.
Evan, isn’t that what I said? Or at least tried too.
I agree in that situation last night it would have been tough to be where the ball went BUT his position was to be backing up. Just pointing out that he was inside the lines on the game field watching everything develop…..that I know is where he is not to be.
Let it hang out baby,
Let it hang out now, now na-na now,
Let it hang out baby,
Everything will work out,
Mookie, Mookie, Mookie,
Mookie, Mookie, Mookie, Moo.
Yes, all that happened and we gave one away. No mention anywhere this morning about Adames pulling Muncy off second base for the third out of the inning. 6 umps out there and not one of them saw it? Inexcusable. And not one reporter that I can find even talking about it. The way we’ve been scoring with 2 outs that inning might have gone on for a while.
That finish is something you should only see in Little League games.
After all that I hope the Dodgers are disgusted and pissed. It’s time to score 15 and send a message.
I agree with you 100% Badger. My first question was why isn’t that Adames pulling Muncy off 2nd base review able?? If that had happened at 1st or 3rd base it would have been. Or am I wrong about that.
Why was it not reviewable?
I guess i am a little lost here.
That is a good question, and I do not believe that there has been an answer. At least I have not heard one.
Was it the umpires judgement that Adames wasn’t as much pulling on Muncy as it was he was holding on while Muncy was falling into him? That is not how I saw it on the replay, but I do not know if judgement on that play is reviewable or not.
I am of the opinion that Muncy was falling regardless . He fell into Adames who instinctevly grabbed him to break his backwards fall.
I didn’t see anything that leads me to believe that Muncy did get himself out there.
Sorry Mark, I will not make excuses. However three things should of been decided or known before the series started. These are not in game decisions.
1. Jansen cannot go two nights in a row. There was no reason to pitch Jansen on Friday night. His velo was down on Saturday night. Something they should of known before the series started.
2. We need four starters. Who are they? Three are obvious. They are Kershaw, Buehler, and Urias. The fourth is May or Gonsolin. May likes to know when he is going to pitch. Then it is obvious that May is your fourth starter. Then move Gonsolin to the pen and use him there. I believe players do better when they know their roles.
3. Baez does well when he pitches a new inning. He does not do well when he inherits runners. Treinen, Gonzales, and Floro are best at inheriting runners. Things Doc should know about his players. It is the managers job to put players in position to succeed.
What I wrote above is not second guessing. Doc open himself up to a lot of second guessing. Last night. Yes the players must preform and they did not. I quit watching when Jansen came in the 9th inning.
All very valid points Idahoal
What a disaster. How can half of the defense screw it up all on the play???!!! Taylor – choke in CF where he almost never plays with the game on the line, Muncy choke bad throw, Clank off of Smith’s glove, Jansen walking around, not backing up. What a sh** show! I can’t say I’ve ever seen such a choke job. Jansen sucks. Screw the soft contact, you missed your spots by a foot. You walked two guys in a one run game.
I was pissed when they brought in Baez with runners on which hardly ever works out well. I was pissed when they didn’t let Urias finish the 5th. Was there really a need to bring in Treinen right there, or could we have extended the relief group a little longer by starting a fresh inning in the 6th? 2 outs, both Ks, nobody on, 80 pitches. But, I had ZERO confidence than Jansen could close out a one run game. Why can’t McGee pitch? Where’s Kelly? Graterol couldn’t start the 9th?
Plenty of blame to go around.
Before I wrote this, I went back and read all the comments from last night. So funny, so sad and so true. This game was one of the most exciting 26 outs I’ve ever seen. It’s too bad that we needed 27.
AC, I wanted to print out and hang up your article on my frig after reading it last night. It said everything I felt and agreed with especially the bullpen decisions made. I could hear the frustration in your words and hope today with a night’s sleep some of the angst has melted away and we can put it behind us and move forward and the Dodgers will.
The Silver Lining for the Dodgers after Saturday night’s devastating loss . . . it wasn’t game 7!
More often than not a playoff baseball series is decided in key moments. If the Dodgers had won last night, Kershaw could’ve closed it out today for a somewhat redemptive denouement to his career as one of the best Dodger pitchers in history, but with a spotty record in the playoffs. The Greek tragedy goes on, I guess.
I can’t really comment WHY Baez was put in. I’m sure there was some rational reason. I couldn’t help thinking about the nickname he’s been given in this site while I was watching last night – El Gasolino. I think he would’ve been ok if he had used better pitch selection. On that three run homer, he got two quick strikes low and away with his changeup. Even Smoltz commented that Lowe was vulnerable to off speed stuff, but was a great fastball hitter. Baez then went high and away with his fastball when he was up in the count. I have to believe he was setting him up for another low and away change. The problem is he went high fastball away three straight times, and on on that third pitch he just missed and the ball caught a big part of the plate. At that point Lowe had it perfectly timed. He didn’t try to pull and just went with a pitch he specializes in hitting and …. bye.
Even Kenley is defendable somewhat. He looked good last night in spite of that homer. The issue is everyone with a pair of eyes knows Kenley has some nights where he looks like vintage Kenley, but there are nights when he just looks tired out – no velocity and no cut on his cutter. That’s just how it is when you age. At this point management should be able to pinpoint the patterns and know when he’s more likely to be on form. I think the first thing you look at is if he’s effective pitching on back to back nights. Without doing the research, my guess is no. But he was brought out in the 9th anyway.
Ok, so you bring him in and he gives up a flukey broken bat bloop. Fine, that’s not a disaster, but now you have the monster up. Do you walk him a move a guy into scoring position? I understand if you don’t want to do that, so the Dodgers all gather around the mound to discuss how to pitch to Arozarena and go over scenarios – or whatever it is they were talking about. Now they make the decision to pitch to the hottest hitter in the universe in a key moment. Smith sets up on the outside. They’re going to pitch him away, probably not going to give him anything to hit.
Kenley missed! He started with a tepid 91 mph fastball that was center in – right in Arozarena’s sweet spot. He was first pitch taking so he didn’t crush it, but that just gave me a really sinking feeling.
Now the Dodgers are a little on their heels because the top of the Rays rotation is coming up and the Dodgers still don’t have an answer for the hole they have in the 4th starter slot. That Wood is even being contemplated as a starter is not good.
A couple of other observations:
I’ve come to realize that Will Smith is not the cleanest receiver out there. Austin Barnes is a much better pitch framer, and I think Barnes calls a better game, too. Smith is touted for his defense, but when you see him block pitches in the dirt and then watch Zunino – Zunino is clearly a master at that craft.
The more I watch Will Smith, the more I think he will be a 2B or 3B eventually!
His post season stats are brutal. 84 plate appearances – .187/.274/.307/.580. And that’s with a 5 hit game. His career stats are decent of course, but he’s only got 333 plate appearances. We have no idea where he might go from here. He’s 26 next year, so, maybe he gets better. But we know a lot of players have their best years between 22-27. I have no idea what the future holds for this guy but I’m thinking Ruiz and Cartaya up the road a bit.
I had to run to the office for a few minutes this AM and I had on MLB.Radio and here’s a couple of very interesting things that were said:
“Yeah, Roberts made some mistakes, but Cash made more… they just worked out better.”
Number of “HARD HIT” Balls (balls with exit velocity over 95 MPH):
Tampa Bay – 7
Los Angeles – 16
WOW!
Finally, they said “One of these organizations is going to lose the World Series because they are way overthinking it!
More than double hard hit balls? Maybe the Rays defensive coaching/positioning is better than the Dodgers?
Finally, they said “One of these organizations is going to lose the World Series because they are way overthinking it! Isn’t that what has been described about Roberts his last 4 (now 5) playoffs?
CHAMPIONSHIP HEART! We had it to come back from down 3-1 to the Braves and we’ll need it to come back from last night’s disaster!
THIS!!!
When the team hits 16 balls over 95 MPH and the other team only hits 7 and you lose, you just have to say “S___t Happens!”
No it doesn’t. You have to ask why? Are the Dodger hitters that predictable where they are going to hit? Is the Rays defensive placement coaching better? There are reasons, and it is up to the Dodger hitters to change the narrative. Maybe just once we can see Belli stay on an outside pitch and go with it into LF instead of overswinging and putting his head in the dugout as he pulls off the pitch. I am using Belli as an example as he is not the only player that does that.
Here’s one good thing:
The Rays are only carrying 13 pitchers, while the Dodgers have 15! That could be a difference!
Roberts is a great guy, but a good game manager? No! When will ownership figure it out? The Rays in 6. Sorry dodger fans.
It’s on Roberts miscalculation, too long on Baez, too soon on Graterol.
The rest is bad luck upon mistakes.
But we have more power, better pitching and defense. At the end we will prevail.
Go Dodgers
When Turner on 2nd and Seager on 3rd and 0 outs Muncy swinging for the fences struck out on 3 pitches followed by Smith striking out on 3 pitches. In that situation all’s I asked of each was, please don’t make an out. But Barns would of, should of moved and we would of won. It was bad luck that killed the game last night and I’m a firm believer in good and bad luck. Sure hope we don’t have to wait till next year!
Well it’s more live and personal World Series baseball for you Jeff. At least one more game at any rate.
2. they are 2-2 not 3-2.
Putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t make it more attractive. Or as Mark Twain put it, “there are three kinds of lies – lies, damn lies, and statistics”.
“Bitch all you want about the Dodgers pitching or bullpen, but right HERE, right NOW in the 2020 World Series, the Dodgers ERA is 4.54 and the Rays ERA is 6.43! Ponder that! The Dodgers WHIP is 1.15 while the Rays is 1.66. Yet, the series is tied 2-2.
The Dodgers are hitting .282 as a team (.895 OPS) while the Rays are hitting .229 (.737 OPS). The Dodgers have outscored the Rays 25-19 and yet the series is 2-2.”
Anyone who could see last night’s game could see that the bullpen failed. And that the Dodgers didn’t hit RISP.
I haven’t seen anyone mention yet what Roberts admitted in the post-game. Here is from ESPN.com:
“After Baez recorded the next two outs, Roberts greeted him in the dugout and told him he was finished. Then the Dodgers got a two-out, pinch-hit, two-run single by Joc Pederson in the top of the seventh and retook the lead. Then Roberts asked Baez to come back out for the bottom half.
“I take blame for having him go back out,” Roberts said. “We were down, I told him he was finished, and so to ask him to go back out and to see how he felt — he said he felt good — but I shouldn’t have [told him he was finished after the sixth] and just kinda kept him burning a little bit.””
A big mistake by Dave Roberts on the biggest stage – again.
I mentioned that last night.
Thank you.
Well I said in advance don’t bring Kenley in. We were lucky Arozarena did not hit the first pitch out or the one he fouled was a hanger. Once Jansen got 2 strikes he did not make another competitive pitch. Jansen has no command.
Baez has been a bad idea ever since he give up the homer to the cardinals way back. He just should not be in a game past the 6th. But, the Dodgers refuse to pitch their starters deep in the regular season so now you can’t expect it.
Will Smith is a liability at catcher right now. He can’t catch the ball he can’t block the ball and why you would ever throw Lowe any fastballs is beyond me. He may be tired, stressed I don’t know , but he is not our best option now.
So we come down to kershaw again. Oh my I think we are done. The homerun ball is his specialty. Tampa had no offense against Houston so I guess their plan is better or their players are better. Lowe was horrible and now he looks like babe Ruth. Kermeier is a terrible hitter but we can’t get him out. They have one hot hitter and we have made the rest. Tampa is a bad offensive team so our pitching is either bad or bad game planning.
Bellinger another playoff meltdown. He seems so immature. His talent is immense but he doesn’t currently have the discipline to make a difference.
You could say the players have got to get the job done and that I agree. But, you have to put players in the best position for them to succeed. For example kolarek was brought in to face 3 lefties. The right move and if it doesn’t work it is on the player. But doc continues to try to make playoff heroes out of Baez and Jansen.
As for tonight. The bigger the game the less kershaw delivers. I hope for his psyche he is very good. But you just never know how he will be. I could see him being very good, struggle with a high pitch count, or giving up the homers early. Unfortunately I am not expecting the first one.
I tried to convince myself that this was the year. We have a better overall team but it doesn’t matter unless you win.
Stay positive!
I have no stats to back this up but it seems to me that our bullpen tends to be very good together or very bad together. On days where the first man or two out of the pen is not very good, the rest seem to screw it up as well.
I guess we’re trading for Hader this winter. Maybe we could do that deal this afternoon.
Roberts again
Sigh.
He puts faith in the wrong people at the wrong time. Kershaw in the past. Baez and Jensen this series.
To me, he had improved in not knee jerk lineup changes as soon as opponents go left-right, but his pitcher usage is just head-shaking.
His quotes last night are the most damning. He doesn’t have a plan.
But, to me the Dodgers are the better team. They shouldn’t have to overcome their manager, but they may have to.
So we get to keep and earn the runs that we score on a clutch blooper but the Rays were gifted their runs scored via blooper.
Taylor not only flubbed the catch, he came closer to 1st base with his throw home than to home plate. Then Muncy throws the relay wide making Smith try to make a catch and swipe tag all in one motion and it is Smith that gets all the flack?
I think there is plenty of blame to go to all three on that play. I expected more from CT3 and Smith, not so much from Muncy. But all three faltered, and none of the three deserve more of that blame than the others.
Fair enough but if I have read all the comments everybody has made correctly, I think Smith has been getting most of the flack.
I have no intention of bashing Doc and his pitching choices last night. He’s been mostly good but last night his decisions didn’t work out. There’s plenty of blame to go around including Mookie who aside from the great catch, had a bad game. We expect more.
You try to put guys in position to succeed and last night the pitching didn’t get it done but we had some critical runners LOB that would have given a little cushion.
What I wonder is why starting pitching been reduced to 5 innings and 85 pitches? With the exception of a few ACES who might get extended. the expectations for a starter has been reduced to them being placeholders to get to the bullpens. I’m planning on posting something after the season on how pitch counts have steadily declined from 150 to 125 to 100 being the magic number, to now 80 or 85.
Urias wasn’t Walker Buehler last night but it was predictable that he wouldn’t go deep into the game. And that’s not based on effectiveness. It’s not based on performance. It’s based on “just because” I guess.
Jason Stark of the Athletic wrote:
“REMEMBER JULIO URÍAS? He was the Dodgers’ starting pitcher. He was around for 4 2/3 innings. He struck out nine Rays and got 20 swings and misses. And then, with two outs in the fifth and nobody on base, Dave Roberts popped out of the dugout and took him out of this game. According to STATS, he’s only the second starter ever to get taken out of a World Series game with a lead in the fifth, when he was one out from qualifying for a win and there were no runners on base. The other? Denny Neagle got hooked by Joe Torre in Game 4 of the 2000 World Series – and let’s just say that if you’re ever at a party (or even on a Zoom) with Denny Neagle, don’t bring that up!”
To me this is a Self-Fulfilling Prophecy. Doc gets what he demands and expects for everyone but CK and Walker. Give me 4 innings and 80 pitches and we’ll call it good. It’s just another example of the new way to manage which I’m having to adapt to. I may never.
There’s a lot here Phil, and before I get into where I may disagree let’s start with where we agree.
I don’t know what Roberts was thinking when he pulled Urias so early. Based on Roberts’ post-game comments there’s a non-zero chance that Roberts doesn’t know what he was thinking.
Now, onto starter “length” there’s plenty of reasoning why pitchers don’t go long in all games. There’s even more reason why it’s prevalent in the playoffs. It’s VERY LITTLE “just because’ and very much “because of so much.”
There’s fatigue.
There’s health.
There are match-ups.
There’s the TTTOP, which is real.
There’s the fact that in the playoffs you are playing better teams, with better hitters. There’s less margin to take chances in.
One of the most interesting games this playoff series was a consequential game in which the Rays, rotated relievers rapidly. So that not one batter got to see a pitcher more than once through the order. The Rays won and it was a great watch, save the delays.
Just like bunts, or stolen bases, or hitting to evade the shift. There’s a reason these things don’t happen as much anymore. They are just as valid as the reasons pitchers go 6 innings in the playoffs.
Good comments Bluto. You’ve gotten me thinking about about handling all the variables and information available now involving pitching decisions. It used to be decisions were made based on what the manager actually saw. The old statement of the “hitters will tell you when a pitcher is done” has been replaced with “preventive medicine”. Besides fatigue and assuming good health, decisions are based on analytics and probabilities. New realities like a pitchers suck the 3rd time through a lineup up. Previous outcomes and possible match ups all get considered. Those big ringed binders become the Bible on what to do. I’m not sold that that model. I’m still sticking with a pitcher who’s doing well and not pulling him based on “what’s supposed” to happen.
I totally get what you are saying Phil, thanks!
But it’s not “what suppose to happen” it is: “what probably will happen.”
Correct and impactful moves are made before bad things happen, or to drive favorable things happening.
If 9 times out of 10 a pitcher does worse facing the same lineup 3 times. That’s an incredibly impactful finding on deciding whether to take a pitcher out. Should you do it every time. No, but you should do it most times.
Similarly, stealing bases. While getting a runner to 2nd base is important, giving the other team an easy out is a MAJOR downside. You don’t give the steal sign (preventatively) for that very reason.
But again, i don’t think analytics should be dogma. Adhered to without question or derivation. I just think they should be given much more weight than “seeing a pitcher in a groove”. Not your words in quotations, but I think your gist.
Totally agree with your thoughts philjones and look forward to your off season analysis. I had planned to do the same. Reacting emotionally to each WS game can become maddening and not very useful. There are so many ups and downs with each game. I’m just observing and taking notes for my off season thoughts and ideas. I’m still confident the Dodgers can overcome last night’s defeat. I believe the Rays BP will breakdown the further the series goes on. We got their BP for 5 runs in game 4. I don’t consider that a lockdown BP. Between use and pressure, the odds of the Rays BP shutting down the Dodger offense becomes increasingly difficult.
Now obviously, pulling a picture who is cruising along and doing quite well is a huge lift for the opposing team. Especially when he has more gas left in his tank. Slavish adherence to analytics may win a lot of games. But it loses games too. Big games.
To Mark above, not once did I absolve the players. Of course it was Baez and Jansen with their continual inability to close out critical innings in the postseason that led to the defeat. Just as it was CT3 and Muncy and Smith on the last play. Of course S— happens and games are blown. But the continual dismissal of the repetition of putting Baez and Jansen in those situations is what is maddening.
Neither Baez nor Jansen just walked out there. They were put in that situation yet once again. And they failed again. So I am not absolving Baez and Jansen, but neither am I absolving the one person who continues to put those players in those situations, Dave Roberts. How many times does Baez and Jansen have to fail in those situations before you say NO MORE. I showed a chart that depicted Baez relieving with runners on base 9 times in the postseason. In 6 of those games, Baez allowed runners to score. More than 50% of the inherited runners have scored. We’re not talking about once, twice, thrice…failing. How many times do you have to put your hand on hot stove before you stop the insanity.
Now with all that said, the Dodgers are the better team. They have to put last night in the rear view mirror and come out hitting against Glasnow. They do not need to panic. They need to play with a purpose…winning; not NOT losing. I mentioned in the article that the vaunted Rays bullpen is very vulnerable as four of the 6 relievers were scored on, including their top 2, Castillo and Anderson. None of Glasnow, Snell, or Morton have finished 5 innings. Their pitching is very vulnerable. Tired? Overused by necessity or design? But will I feel comfortable with a narrow lead and the Dodgers bullpen coming in? When the Dodgers win the WS, Doc is going to need to make countless decisions, and it is going to be the decisions he makes over the next 2-3 games that could dictate the outcome. Right now, I am only placing blame on Doc for pitching Baez and Jansen in those pressure situations.
Here is another decision that needs to be made. I am assuming that Barnes will be catching Kershaw tonight. If Bellinger cannot play defense, does Joc become the LF, Pollock to CF, and Smith or Rios the DH? Or do you just keep putting Belli out there hoping that something will click, and he will take what is given to him. Who is the better player? No question it is Belli. But who is hitting better right now? Mookie went 0-fer last night but made a great defensive play. Belli was not on the field to do the same, and he has never been clutch in the postseason, while Joc has. With that said, I fully expect to see Belli in CF batting 6th, Joc in LF, and Smith as DH.
As Dodgerrick said, with the Dodgers outhitting and outpitching the Rays, no discernable difference in defense, the series is tied up at 2-2. Why? Some players can handle the pressure, some cannot. Right now, it looks like Dave Roberts is in the latter category, but he has 2 wins in 2020 to change that directive.
Great article Jeff.
By the way, Bellinger homered off Glasnow in game 1 so unless he is really injured he will be in the line up today.
In terms of the pitching decisions, the dodgers in the most pivotal game of the series relied heavily on Baez and Jansen. Baez faced 7 batters and Jansen faced 5. Bringing Baez into game with runners on was a bad choice, bringing him back out for the 7th was a worse choice and letting him pitch to Arazorena after the Kiermaier hr was an even worse choice. Yes the dodgers turned a DP, but it was crazy to still have Baez in and pitching to right handers after giving up 2 HRs.
Two weeks ago, I don’t think anyone on this site was comfortable with Jansen pitching the 9th inning with a one run lead, especially pitching back to back nights. Yet this was the Dodger strategy tonight. Jansen struggled against the bottom of the lineup and faced 3 hitters who hit under 220 this year.
Since the dodgers had zero high leverage situations for the bullpen in the first 3 games of the WS, they had every single reliever available today, and they decided to let Baez and Jansen decide the outcome.
Let’s hope the dodgers bounce back and Seager and Turner continue to rake. The dodgers have more talent, and need to put game 4 behind them. An early lead will be huge today. Hang in there, and get us a win, Clayton!
Doc’s unbridled and undying faith and loyalty in his players is one of his greatest personal assets. It’s also one of his greatest managing weaknesses. Same can be said for his faith in analytics.
On a positive note, it was just fantastic to see Barnes have such a good game the other day. Barnes ,the red-haired step-child whipping boy of the Dodger fans all season long. Barnes who was sent down to the minors last year, took it like a man, never lost his enthusiasm or team spirit. Never quit. I admire the hell out of that. Good on you Barnes!
AC I couldn’t agree with you more. Baez and Jansen pooped their beds. No ERA Stats, no hard hit balls crap. You saw it, I saw it. Doc puts Baez in a mid-inning pressure situation and he bombs. Doc puts in Jansen in a one-run game after pitching him the night before and he bombs. Forget about the CT3-Muncy-Smith distraction. Doc sent out Baez with runners on base and got exactly what Baez has given him over the years–a poor outing. Then, for some inexplicable reason, Doc doubles down and sends him out again. Jansen comes in the ninth and puts too many pitches over the plate and we get beat by the 28th player on the Rays roster with a 2 strike cookie. Baez and Jansen failed the team. Doc failed them.
Why didn’t my post show up? did I say something wrong?
I do not see any posts being moderated. I have not pulled any posts for a very long time, and never if it was baseball related. Send it again.
The only time, posts were pulled was during that BLM fracas, and everybody was warned first.
Oh no here comes the third one one through we must pull the starter. Dumb! He had K’d Diaz twice. Let Urias face Diaz and have the opportunity to finish the inning then see if the offense adds on before unnecessarily pulling him. We all know the Dodgers have hit the Rays bullpen the more it is exposed. The same goes the other way.
I’ve never seen Doc that animated in reaction to sh*t going wrong. It was quite amusing actually to see him lose the dead-pan , emotionless expression, Even though the situation and circumstances were not funny at all, blowing a game like that.
It’s not the first time we’ve seen Kenley fail to back up home plate resulting in a loss. A few years ago Puig one hopped one past Grandal then the winning run came around and scored while Kenley stood there with his thumb up his ass. We’ve seen this at least three times now. I would not look to him as a leader in the locker room.
So, it seems that I only listen to MLB.Radio in the truck.
I had to run a couple of my leaf blowers to my son this afternoon which is about an hour round trip. During that time, I listened to MLB and some different callers. Several valid points were made, including that Kenley, while still very good, is no longer elite, just like Aroldis Chapman is no longer elite. Kenley started Spring Training hitting 94-95 MPH, but when they finally came back, his velocity was somewhat diminished. However, he was Closer of the Month in August and had a 1.54 ERA and 2.29 FIP in 13 appearances in August, with 19 strikeouts and four walks in 11⅔ innings. He was not that good the rest of the season!
But one caller summed it all up when he said: “In the World Series, with Will Smith catching, the Dodgers have given up 14 runs in 2 games. That’s an average of 7 runs a game. Austin Barnes has also caught two games and has given up 5 runs total. That is an average of 2.5 runs a game! Will Smith should not catch another damn game!”
I cannot argue with that. Will Smith makes me pine for Yasmani Grandal. I guess Will is a catcher who cannot call a good game!
Barnes should start the rest of the World Series! The figures are as simple as that!
Or it could be that Barnes caught the Dodgers’s best 2 pitchers? (Kershaw and Buehler)
And in defense of Smitty, he’s contributed big on offense.
… and that begs the question: Why do the best pitchers want Barnes to catch them?
We already know the answer!
Me thinks The Fresh Prince needs a position change, next year.
Barnes and Ruiz at catcher. Smith at 2B or 3B.
LOL
Dido. And he was calling a fine game for Urias. He called the correct pitch for Kenley to finish the game. Kenley didn’t hit the spot again. No doubt Barnes probably calls a better game but when you get Buehler and Kershaw your numbers should be better
I really can’t say if Smith calls a good game or is substandard here, but that is probably the single most important skill a catcher should have. It’s why that position tends to underproduce offensively. Teams can live with light hitting catchers because there are other things a catcher needs to do that are more important. A catcher needs to be a coach, scout, tactician and psychologist all rolled into one, and have that subtle skill with a quiet mitt that will skew a borderline pitch into being called a strike instead of a ball.
I do know that Buehler gave Barnes high praise and that he’s Kershaw’s pitcher of choice, and I second guessed some of the pitch selection last night. I suspect that Roberts was unhappy with the pitch calling on the Lowe home run, too, which is why he was shaking his head in the dugout. The changeup was Baez’s out pitch and best weapon against Lowe, but he threw that high and away fastball three straight times and left it over the plate on the third try and got burned.
Do you think it would also help if the pitchers would pitch what the catcher calls rather than shake him off and pitch what they want, like Baez did just prior to the 3-run home run? And, Jansen missing the spots called for by the catcher? Just wondered.
I am going to defend Smith a little here. He made a big error not taking off his mask to be able to catch that not-perfect throw. It cost us. I think he might have been a little stunned when Taylor, who is normally pretty stable on defense, booted the ball and lost his focus. There were plenty of mistakes in the game going back to the 4th inning. But, a new game and a new day today. Go Blue.
AP HEADLINE: ROBERTS IN HOTSEAT AS PITCHING MOVES BACKFIRE, RAYS TIE SERIES.
You can’t fire the whole team. If the Dodgers lose the Series, Roberts is gone! That is just the way it is!
he should be gone regardless.
History of failure and maybe the Crown Jewel last night.
No team of talent can overcome such poor decisions over and over. The hitters did last night…..a few times…..but Roberts proved too much to overcome in the end
I’ll try again.
AC you are absolutely correct. Forget all the stats–ERA, exit velocity, etc. You saw it, I saw it. Baez and Jansen pooped the bed. The CT3-Muncy-Smith debacle is just a distraction. Bringing Baez in with runners on is a no-no. He puts a cookie fastball on a tee to a fastball hitter and away it goes. Bringing Jansen in two days in a row is a no-no. He faces the 28th player on the Rays team and puts a two strike cookie down the middle and makes him a hero.
Doc made his choices and they were the wrong ones.
Now it’s all up to CK. I love him and the Dodgers but his history in second game starts in the playoffs isn’t great. And, thanks to Baez and Jansen, the Rays have momentum on their side. We’ll find out soon if they can overcome last night and turn things around.
I have to admit that last night’s game was too upsetting for me so tonight I’m going to tape it. I know that sounds like a cop out and I guess it is but I just can’t stand to watch them lose. Especially because they always come up with a new, novel way to do it. Maybe I’m the problem and this will bring them good luck. Go Blue!
I have little to add other than experienced veterans at this point in the season just need to execute better. From hitting spots with pitches, to not bunting at pitches up in zone (Little League error Kiké) to executing relay throws correctly (how many times have you done that by the time you get to the Majors?) to backing up bases, Kenley Jansen. You’ve got nothing else to do but make sure you are in a position to help and you were wandering aimlessly somewhere around the third baseline. It’s illegal to tackle a player in the baseline (only when he’s standing safely on a base can you pull him off) so get yourself lined up for an overthrow. That goes for all 9 guys out there by the way. My tournament softball teams did a whole lot better at that hustle play than you Major Leaguers.
Execute. With 3 left the team that executes better will win this series.
Badger, as to the Little League error of bunting a ball out of the zone, didn’t Kike also notice that the 1st baseman was 30 feet from the plate and the 3rd baseman 45 feet? I don’t know about you, but we had a basic rule that with the corners crashing like that, the sac bunt is automatically off and the “slug-bunt” is on.
Brutal execution by Kike when the bunt was absolutely in order.
Well, by Wednesday we will all either be celebrating or slitting our wrists by the tone of things. The game is over. And if they end up winning the series it will just fall into the category of a bad game in the middle of a Championship season. If they end up losing, then it gains the status of Mickey Owens missed 3rd strike. Bobby Thompson’s homer in 51, and Stan Williams melt down in the 9th inning of game 3 in the 62 playoffs. I have seen this so many times over the years. By now, I am kind of numb to it. We have the better pitcher going tonight. Kersh has been very good this post season. And you can bet he is ready to redeem himself. His last game 5 did not go so well. But I expect him to be the pitcher he has been most of the season. I also think they cannot dwell on what happened last night. That puts more pressure on you. And Barnes will be catching tonight.
Start up the Jansen has the same ERA as Hader or Ian so they are just as good. LOL Like nobody has eyeballs.
I have no problem with Baez or Jansen. I am sure they are trying their best and want to win for themselves and the guys on the roster with them. In fact, I almost feel sorry for them. Their leader keeps thinking that they are something that they clearly are not and send them the wolves over and over.
100% blame, and YES blame should be recognized and assigned so it can be learned from and fixed, is on Roberts. This is not Bill Belichek here with a history of brilliance and a decision or seven goes wrong and shit happens. This is a long history of putting the wrong guys in the wrong situations and then staring deadpan when they inevitably go wrong. How Baez was sent out for the 7th is Exhibit G honestly.
Not a fan of Arod at all, but during the Braves series ( i think) he stated that Roberts had become a playoff manager that night because he stayed with Graterol and left Kenley standing in the bullpen. He didn’t manage with his heart but with who the better player was. New guys. Let’s use the best guy. Anyone think that McGee wasn’t a better option on the last hitter after Kenley had shit the bed….again, and put the series in peril.
He threw all that out again and became the same failure as in all the years past. I will take 100mph and confidence over a 91 either over the plate with almost no movement or non-competitive, deer in the headlights anytime.
Roberts has to go. Today is fine with me honestly. Over and over and over and over he has shown he isn’t up to the job with a team of talent that is expected to win.
Series was over if Jansen can get a light hitting, pinch hitter out. All the negatives that happened on that play are noise and honestly didn’t matter. Anyone think Roberts actually pulls Jansen if Randy Ruth stopped at third? Anyone think Jansen doesn’t just give up another hit on the next hitter? Buck and Smoltz make no mention that I heard that anyone was even warming up. I could be wrong though.
LOL! You make some great points, and I like your style.
I think I’m just coming to the conclusion that Roberts is not the most insightful guy in the world and just doesn’t quite grasp the big picture and how it relates to individual decisions. Either he clings to the formula even when he should ditch it and ride the hot hand, or ditches it to stick with his guy. He drew praise – and it worked out – when he left Urias and Graterol in to finish off games. It seems he finally figured it out and was going to move away from the Kenley-is-the-Closer script, but then he goes right back and makes the same mistake.
Victor Gonzalez was warming up.
Why wasn’t he brought in to face the weak hitting lefty? I think that is a legit question.
Just a thought, but they could sure use a David Freese type guy as a DH. Most of the guys who have been DHing are the all or nothing types. In all of this madness, 3 Dodgers are having excellent World Series. Seager, Turner and Joc. Not only do I want to see Kersh get a ring, but since both are free agents, I would love to see JT and Joc get one too. Some of you may be right. Doc might be gone if they lose this. One too many disappointing endings.
Sorry about my snarfy comment regarding my post. It did show up. Just a little testy this morning.
Last night was brutal. If we come back from that, we truly deserve to be Champions. If we don’t then I really think a change has to be made. He’s a great guy but his choices last night were poor ones. I know–it’s easy to say that now. But you are judged by results and another failed post-season for a team with this much talent is just not acceptable. Hope it doesn’t come down to that. Best 2out of 3. Go Blue!
Roberts is being roasted almost everywhere. He is feeling the heat as it were.
I’m not gonna blame him. We had a lead in the 9th and the players didn’t put it away.
I’m blaming him!
I havnt been in the right place mentally to post today.
I got up at 1am to watch that. It’s ok for you guys, you can go to bed. I’ve had all day to dwell on it. It’s been a long one.
I think I’m still in shock actually.
I mean – WTF was that?
It was like a montage of all our heartbreaking moments of the DOC era all in one reel. I still don’t believe it really happened. One moment I’m thinking CK can lead us to the WS tomorrow, the next I’m hoping we can get to a game 7.
The Rays won their BP game. We lost ours. That could be crucial.
The other thing, and nobody has mentioned it – is that we could have a queue of players available to DH tonight. Bellinger obviously, but JT & Corey we’re both struggling at the end last night.
I’m so rooting for Clayton tonight.
When we lost to the Astros and then the Red Sox, they were the better teams. We are the better team against the Rays. If we don’t win this time there will be some serious questions to be answered.
It would be helpful if Mookie and Bellinger were hitting. Neither have impressive series stats. Smith is 3 for 17. Kiké .708 OPS, Taylor’s .794. AJ hasn’t played much. Seager and Turner are carrying the offense.
Pitching hasn’t been bad overall, but, they sure have had some bad moments.
… and most of the bad moments have been with Smith behind the plate!
Roberts does over manage. Urias could of gone longer. Treinen could of gone longer. Graterol should of pitched the 9th. Jansen cannot pitch back to back any more. Who will close tonight? This should be figured out before games starts and players told before game starts. If May pitches on Tuesday he needs to go longer than one inning. Most pitchers have trouble with the first inning. Right now if Gonso or May give up one run in first inning they are pulled. Plenty of blame to go around for everyone, especially Doc.
Well our first snow of the year is coming down. Denver is getting hammered right now. Here it is just coming down kind of gently.
1, Betts RF
2. Seager SS
3. Turner 3B
4. Muncy 1B
5. Smith DH
6. Bellinger CF
7. Taylor 2B
8. Pederson LF
9. Barnes C
I’d swap Muncy and Barnes. Think on that one.
Ryan Spilborghs:
“Fans put this all on Roberts, because they simply don’t know any better.
I guarantee that Doc had reasons for doing what he did… I’d just like to know what they were. I think both teams are overmanaging, but the win is on the Rays players and the loss is on the Dodgers players, not Cash or Roberts.”
What a moronic statement!
Of course Roberts had his reason, he’s not using a random number generator to make decision.
Those reasons were wrong, and by his own admission, they weren’t cohesive nor part of a plan.
“but the win is on the Rays players and the loss is on the Dodgers players, not Cash or Roberts.”
I agree with that.
Well, I’ll say this.
A. I’m wrong quite often.
B. This is all just opinion, so we can both be right!
Of course, he is going to say that. He is NEVER going to throw his players under the bus.
If Dodgers do not win this World Series it’s fairly likely Kershaw retires when his contract is up. Can’t blame him if that’s the outcome. While he was the best pitcher on the planet Dodgers usually failed supporting him and he continued his best efforts. At any rate, aside however this post season ends I’ve got to say the shortened 2020 has been more successful than anybody figured. Maybe not so much for the owners. But the fans got their fix of baseball.
Regardless of today’s outcome, there will be a game 6. Question is who do we pitch? Let me be the first to get lambasted.
Win or lose today, WB should NOT pitch game 6. With his blister issues, he needs all the rest he can get.
So, who is left? Might I suggest Woods? He’s had plenty of rest and has pitched reasonably well recently.
Hey, why not? Doc stuck with Baez and Jansen. Might as well go for the trifecta!
Whether Woods starts or relieves, I don’t think he will pitch more than three innings max. Gonsolin could give the Dodgers another 3 innings max. Best guess is 6 innings combined between Woods, Gonsolin, May.
Bear & MT…Thanks for your feedback…
I don’t know what’s more painful, the loss or reading some of the crapola that surfaces after our games… Of course no one comes close to Bluto..
Lets go get em tonight…
Everyone was saying how good our bullpen was during the regular season. NOT ME. During the regular season the Dodgers did not face many good teams (offensive teams). The career stats did not come close to matching the regular season stats because the Dodgers were not facing good hitting teams during the regular season. The only team that I can think of off the top of my head right now that the Dodgers faced during the regular season that had a good hitting team was the Padres.
The Dodgers playoff stats:
Team OPS .833 2nd best out of 16 teams.
Team starting pitching 3.12 ERA 4th best out of 16 teams.
Team relief pitching 4.17 ERA 9th best out of 16 teams.
Those stats are all you need to know.
Remember too that Urias has pitched fantastically in relief in the playoffs, so without Urias pitching in relief, that relief pitching ERA would be higher than 4.17.
Priority #1 in the off season should be build a good bullpen.
https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/stats/team/pitching/world-series
Mark stop. Click on the reliever split. Dodgers 6.62 ERA.
The point is that the starters and relievers are never less clear than in the World Series, but overall the Dodgers have an ERA about 2 Points less than the Rays. There were lots of teams with better Postseason Bullpens than the Rays and the Dodgers and they are all gone. 7 teams had better bullpens than the Rays and the Dodgers (statistically) and yet, here the Rays and the Dodgers are!
We are dealing with a small sampling and some relievers are starters and some starters are relievers. It can all change in one night!
BTW, those some stats showed that the Dodgers had the 2nd best bullpen in the regular season, yet you say Everyone was saying how good our bullpen was during the regular season. NOT ME. But, that is what the stats said. So you just pick and choose your own facts?
Mark stop. We got where we are on good hitting and good starting pitching. The bullpen is our weakness. If you don’t see that I don’t know what to say. I’ll use something you use. Even Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder can see that the Dodger bullpen sucks.
Allow me to paraphrase Mark:
“If the facts are against you, argue the logic.
If the logic is against you, argue the facts.
If the logic and the facts are against you, pound the table, yell like hell and cite Ray Charles”
Good stats.
I just read that the top 6 pitching teams in post season are all home watching. And of the top 6 hitting teams in post season only one is still playing and it’s the Dodgers.
Eric, You should know I won’t stop. Explain to me why the stats showed the Dodgers with the second-best regular-season bullpen and you refuse to believe it, but want to believe this.
You can’t just ignore stuff! If they weren’t as good as the figures showed then… maybe they are not as bad as they show now!
FACT: https://www.mlb.com/dodgers/stats/team/pitching/regular-season?split=rp
Not my fault you didn’t see this coming. I saw it coming from a mile away. Read my first post.
It must be wonderful to be psychic because the stats you quoted did not show that.
Can Kersh deliver? We need 7 innings tonight and the lead. Gonzalez in the eighth and Graterol in the 9th. Oh and a 3-4 run lead would help!
12
Good first. Except for the 3 K’s.
The #Dodgers are now hitting .358 with runners in scoring position and 2 outs in this postseason.
All other teams are hitting.185
Something very unusual just happened. Kershaw went from 12 pitches and no outs to 14 pitches and 3 outs.
JOCTOBER!!!!!! How can we not sign Joc just for October! Take the rest of the year off and bulk up! Our bats are making this game bullpen proof!!!!!
Say what?
Another nail biter. So far I count 4 lazy fly balls to the outfield. Wonder why Smith is the DH with a righty going.
I would have had Rios in there.
They let him off the ropes.
Kershaw is laboring.
Man, the Rays are trying… everything!
Gutsy move. Made it close. But, you try something like that you better make it.
It appears not only has CT3 forgot how to hit he has also forgotten how to field, and can someone explain to me why Smith is our DH and not Rios or Kike? 0-3 with 3 K’s and looks lost against Glasnow
I bet Smith didn’t sleep a wink last night.
I agree Badger., about Kershaw. He’s looked a bit tentative at times, almost as if he was scared to throw a strike.
Until Muncy launched that HR I was wondering if this was going to be one of those games where the Dodgers score early, and then just STOP. But I suspect it’s going to take more.
I hope that DR doesn’t try to push Kershaw too far into this game, even though he did just complete his first 1-2-3 inning.
Well Brooklyn, there’s your answer on pushing Kershaw.
We’re gonna hear about this one.
You really want to take out Kersh to use our bullpen? Good luck with that
I would not take out kershaw.. He is Seattle down. But is ok
Seriously, he’s getting stronger threw two pitches in the inning. F-ing stupid.
What just happened!!!???
CK can lose a game quickly, but going to our shaky BP when he’s been cruising and just got two outs on two pitches seems a bit odd. Hope it works!
WTF?
For Dustin May?
I understand the logic that Smoltz laid out but with a 2 run lead with 2 outs, I am sticking with Kershaw until he makes a mistake
Kershaw finally looking sharp and cruising with momentum. Wait a minute Roberts to the rescue. Well let me the first to say Kershaw did his job. This World Series he did his job!! I believe in May!!
It’s a fine line with Kersh. We’ve seen too many 6th inning implosions. Doc will hear it if the pen blows this, but should get the credit if the pen holds, because we DIDN’T give Kersh a chance to lose it, and lose it quickly, as he’s done way too often.
PLUS, I also think this sets up Kersh, to give us an inning or 2 if there’s a game 7.
Also, I’m calling it now. If we win today, and we’re up big in game 6, expect Kersh to be on the mound in the top of the 9th on Tuesday to bring home the title.
I hope your right Bobby. That would be a great storyline.
It’s done and over. Go D-May!
I guess May learned his lesson about throwing spinning sliders to a team that can’t hit high heat!
Dad Bod makes it look easy!
All you armchair managers were just wrong!
I believe I mentioned May and Gonsolin would play a big role… (Tony’s time will be soon).
Will May pitch the 8th?
Anyway the trash talk about Muncy has disappeared. 7 for 17.
We need more runs
I am taking nothing for granted. This baseball, and anything can happen. I want more runs.
I’ll take 12 more, please!
Smith 0-4 with 3 K’s as tonight’s DH? Ouch
DO: designated out
How can you max out a player who just doesn’t deliver when it matters the most!
I was just coming around to like Will Smith and now I find that he can’t catch or hit!
Back to the drawing board!
I knew we would hear it.
Here’s something – Smith and Bellinger combined are OPS’n less than Seager, Turner and Muncy are individually. Imagine how good we would be if our MVP and catcher who OPS’d .980 this year, were actually hitting.
trade ’em.
Wow Gonzalez will face Arozarena! That’s a gutsy call! Need a double play here
Dodgers about to go up 3-2 and you guys are STILL grumbling.
I dare Doc to bring in Jansen in the 9th!
Be careful what you wish for!
Address that to Doc!
You are witnessing the growth of V-Gon!
Cody just made Doc look like a genius. Yes!
Victor just earned his BP stripes!
Buck said Arozarena is the best hitter on the planet right now. Bullsh*t. SEAGER IS.
Props to Gonzalez. That performance may have won us a WS! Now is Roberts a genius for making that move?
How about that bullpen?
So far….
With closer by committee who pitches the 9th?
This BP is as scary as Roberts moves relative to their use.
Taylor and Smith need a night off
This is going to be Trienen’s game!
Loved Mookie starting the game with a ringing double, but since then……….meh
When Lowe hit that ball I momentarily said, please not another blooper. But Bellinger closed on that ball quickly.
Still would love the Dodgers to add some more. Was really hoping Mookie would drive in Barnes, or at least extend the inning for Seager.
Not a good start. I’m finishing this post and just hoping for the best.
Apparently a fairly low probability to catch I’ve read. If he’s in Center last night and CT3 is in left that blooper to left doesn’t drop in the 9th
Damn Dodger bullpen blows it again and Roberts is an idiot! Oops! HEART OF A CHAMPION!
Bullpen!
Scoreboard!
SU!
Watch and Learn!
We learned don’t let Kenley close anymore. Great job by just about everyone. I give Kershaw one more batter but with the proper rest I trust May(and Gonsolin). We have seen why Gonzalez almost got into this position last year.
~
Very happy for a Joc. It seemed like his family was going through a lot. Heat plays up in the playoffs and we all know Joc isn’t afraid of heat.
ROBERTS is a genius!
KJ will never get the ninth again in this WS unless we are way ahead. 3-2 lets get this done Tuesday
Nice job by all concerned on a night when CK did not have his best stuff. Catman is starting Tuesday’s game. Lets finish this. Still snowing here, Have about 4 inches…and it is frippen cold.
Almost 90º here, Bear! 10:30am.
WHEW!!!!!
Is Treinen our new closer?
Huge win . We at least know that if there is a game 7 (hope not) we will have Buehler. But as they say, it ain’t over until it’s over.
Bullpen much better tonight. Strange how that happens when Baez, Jansen, and Kelly don’t pitch.
. Kershaw kept us in the game and more. First and third no one out was the biggie. We need to get to snell early. Mookie needs to get red hot! How about everybody play their best game Monday. Go Dodgers!!!
Reply to Cassidy:
No, he is a genius for not bringing in Baez, Kelly, Floro or Jantzen! If he had, we would have lost another game.
Good win! I’m glad that Doc learned how to mange between last night and tonight. He pushed all the right buttons tonight.
May and Treinen were nasty. Kersh and Gonzalez did what they had to.
Game #6 against Snell I sit Will Smith and go with CT3 in LF, AJ at DH and Kike at 2B. Barnes gets the catching start and Will sits and watches
Smith knows Gonsolin well. He’s my catcher and will have a big hit after a day off.
Smell won’t be easy. Guy won the Cy Young in 2018, and on top of that he’s a lefty.
Major major props to Max Muncy.
First, he’s the one that alerted Kersh about Magot trying to steal home. Then very next inning he homers.
He’s warming up, and we need him for 1 more game! (hopefully not 2 more games)
I said awhile back come postseason I trusted Muncy and Joc to show up. Max had a weird year. First a broken finger, then for some reason Doc bats him leadoff. He had more calls missed against him by home plate umps than any player in the league this year. It was either 16 or 19 I believe. At one point he had totally lost his confidence. It’s back and he looks good at the plate. Confidence is off the charts now.
~
JT’s demise at 3rd has been exaggerated too. He’s come up big on defense.
If baseball was an 8 inning game we’d be WS champions tonight! That 9th inning yesterday still hurts! Four guys carrying the offensive load so far. Can we get some help from Mookie and Belly on Tuesday?