In 2017, George Springer was 0-6 with a walk and 4 strikeouts before getting a one out double off KJ in the 9th inning in Game 2. A sleeping giant had awoken. In 2020 postseason, the Rays best hitter, Brandon Lowe was in a miserable slump, but that ended when he took Tony Gonsolin deep in the first inning. And he wasn’t done.
Gonsolin gives up a walk to Margot who steals 2nd and hustles to 3rd on a Joey Wendel fly to CF, that Belli just missed throwing out. But that was it for Gonsolin. Floro was up early. What a night a difference makes for both Dylan Floro and Victor Gonzalez. I am not about to speculate what that difference was, but both were sufficiently warm and pitched far better in Game 2, especially Floro. Floro gets Willy Adames to hit a ground ball to Corey Seager who fires a strike to Smith to get Margot, who was running on contact, at the plate. Smith then throws out Adames trying to steal 2B on a bang bang play who was originally ruled safe and then overturned.
Floro gets the first two in the 3rd and then turns it over to VGon who gets Austin Meadows to pop up on the first pitch.
At this point, Blake Snell is dealing. He is hitting all of his spots and is unhittable.
In the 4th VGon issues a one out walk to Arozarena, and induces a Ji-Man Choi ground ball to get the DP but it was not gloved cleanly by Kike’ and the Dodgers could not turn it. I am assuming that Doc wanted the RHP Dustin May to pitch to RHH Manuel Margot, and he is called in to relieve Gonzalez. Manuel Margot gets a single that was followed by a 2-run double by Joey Wendle, turning a manageable 1-0 game a much more difficult 3-0 game facing a tough Blake Snell.
In the 5th, May gets Kiermaier on a strikeout and Mike Zunino on a ground out. Austin Meadows follows to get his first WS hit, and then on an 0-2 curveball that did not break much at all, Brandon Lowe, hit a 2 run HR and pushing the lead to 5-0. No kind way to say it, once again neither May nor Gonsolin were effective.
Blake Snell is still pitching a no-hitter into the bottom of the 5th, and after striking out Belli and AJ Pollock, his 8th and 9th Ks, he walks Kike’. Then on a 2-1 pitch, Snell lost the no-hitter and shutout on a CT3 two-run HR. Mookie follows with a walk, and Corey Seager follows with his first hit of the 2020 WS. Kevin Cash then pulls Snell after 4.2 IP and not in a position to get a decision in the game, and brings in hard throwing RHRP Nick Anderson. Anderson gets JT on a strikeout to end the threat.
Joe Kelly took the bump in the 6th and surrenders back to back singles to Choi and Margot. Choi easily made 3rd on the Margot single. Joey Wendle followed with a sac fly and a 6-2 lead. In the bottom of the 6th, Fresh Prince crushes a 1-1 curveball into the left field stands cutting the lead to 6-3.
Much to the chagrin of many on this site, Alex Wood was summoned, and he proceeded to pitch 2 shutout innings. Some preferred Doc to Alex. I wonder if those same comments are going to be discussed about Dustin May and Tony Gonsolin after their last two performances. For me, I have never given up on Alex Wood, and I believe that both May and Gonsolin will come back to pitch very well in this series.
RHRP Pete Fairbanks entered to pitch the 6th for the Rays and retires Joc (PH for Kike’), CT3, and Mookie with 6 pitches. After 7 innings, LAD is behind 6-3, and the Rays just do not lose while winning after 7 IP. Fairbanks returns for the 8th. After just missing on an 87.7 MPH slider, Fairbanks tried again, and this time, Corey did not miss it. The score is now 6-4, and the Dodgers have JT, Max, Smith, and Belli coming up. JT gets a bloop double, and the Dodgers are in business. Muncy could not get JT over to third. Will Smith absolutely hits a seed but right at 3B Joey Wendle for out #2. Time to bring in LHRP Aaron Loup to face Belli. Belli goes down looking and that is the last look the Dodgers get as Loup and Diego Castillo shut down LAD in the 9th. LH hitters look to have their hands full against Aaron Loup. Belli and Rios looked lost against Loup.
Kevin Cash is a protégé of Tito Francona, and learned at his side to not be so predictable when it comes to relief pitchers. Francona showed everyone that Andrew Miller could be effective in any high leverage situation, not just the 9th inning. Cash uses Nick Anderson and Diego Castillo in any situation where critical outs are required. The Rays are masters in their usage of the pen. Dodger pitching has been solid against Randy Arozarena, but have now let Brandon Lowe get some confidence. Both Lowe and Wendle had 3 RBI’s. Margot is 3-7.
The 2020 Series is now tied at 1 apiece. The Rays will be the home team for games 3-5. Cash will send Charlie Morton to the mound, and Doc will counter with Walker Buehler. Doc has already named Julio Urias as the Game 4 starter, the Rays have not yet named one, but it certainly figures to be an opener. Clayton Kershaw will start Game 4
Nobody said this was going to be easy. Nobody predicted a sweep. The Rays have zero pressure on them, they are well disciplined, and now they have some confidence. They have now hit 28 post season HRs breaking the previous postseason record of 27 by the 2002 SF Giants, and 2017 Assterisks.
Dodgers Pitcher of the Game – Dylan Floro 1.1 innings while not allowing an inherited runner on third with one out to not score. Alex Wood also pitched well, just not as good as Floro.
Dodgers Offensive Player of the Game – Corey Seager; 2-4 with a HR, his 7th of the postseason. The 7th HR broke the record for postseason HRs by a SS previously held by himself and Carlos Correa (2020). His 7th HR ties him with Randy Arozarena for most in the 2020 postseason. If Corey hits another, he will join Nelson Cruz (2011), Carlos Beltran (2004) and Barry Bonds (2002) with 8. Corey’s 7th HR this year, now gives him 10 as a Dodger, tying him with JT and Steve Garvey in 2nd place, only 1 behind Duke Snider’s 11. Corey is having a fantastic postseason.
It seems pretty clear that the Dodgers are not going to pitch their starters on short rest. This hasn’t worked in prior post season years and they feel they have the depth to wear out their opponents and so far it has worked. On the other hand, it’s hard to believe the team with the best record in baseball can’t put a starting pitcher on the mound for the World Series. We scored 4 runs against a great starter and good bullpen. 4 runs usually wins games. Oh well. Go Blue!
Rays earned this one. That can’t be denied. They’ve also shown themselves to be a class organization and spoken with much respect towards Dodgers after game one. They dealt, I just wish they hadn’t dealt so good and won’t deal so great moving forward THE REST of this series.
If all goes as planned, Buehler pitches 7 innings in game 3. Urias 6 innings in the pivotal game 4. Kershaw pitches 7 in the game 5 clincher. Dodgers win WS championship and 32 year drought is over.
That’s how I got it! 😉 This last game was always a mismatch and we almost won. Some strange pitching subs at curious moments, Kike’s bobble and Muncy having another ball bang off his glove and we might have swept them.
Maybe now you see why I did not predict how quickly this series would be won. Roberts, Friedman and Company know what kind of battle it is going to be. Some of you are losing your minds at how Doc used the bullpen last night, but this was a page out of Sun Tzu’s “The Art of War.” The bullpen usage was an organizational decision. DOC, AF and the brass likely scripted it. They knew that if Snell were on his game, this would be a tough one to win… and he was! So, essentially, they lost the battle by not throwing everyone in the bullpen, so as to live and fight another day. That day will be Game #3, where they are going to need all hands on deck.
Hopefully, Buehler has some “magic” for 5 or 6, and then you will see Treinen, Baez, Graterol, Kolarek, and Jansen… and maybe a couple from last night. The Ray have worked their pen pretty hard so far. The Dodgers have worked the weaker side of their pen so far. The strong side is now ready to go. You pick your battles and it looks like the Dodgers have picked Buehler and Urias to lead the charge in Games 3 and 4. These are the biggest starts of their respective careers!
Wood looked very useful last night. Floro and Gonzalez looked better and I still think Gonsolin and May will play an important role. When Glasnow got roughed up the first game, the Rays did the same thing the Dodgers did last night – they sucked it up and lived to fight another day! They could have smoked their pen, just like the Dodgers could have last night… and still lost. Last night’s bullpen usage was a strategic, planned action. Watch and learn!
One thing I still see is when a hitter pinch hits and makes an out “Doc is an idiot.” Of if he brings in a pitcher who gives up a run – “He can’t manage the pen.” It evidently has nothing to do with the hitter… or the pitcher. Doc is not responsible for their execution… just their lack of it! Geeeezzzzz!
Here’s something to think about:
Nick Anderson is extremely good! But, Anderson has had to face almost as many hitters in this postseason (51) as he faced all season (58). Is he tiring? That could be an issue!
The thing I have a problem with is that Doc will pull a pitcher that looks like he’s in a groove to exploit a perceived same side advantage. Then the next guy, cold out of the pen, loses that advantage by allowing the same side hitter to reach and proceeds to give it up to the next guy who is opposite side. The three batter rule helps offset the number of times this has happened this year. But, Doc just never seems to learn that it’s better to stick with the hot hand – Gonzales last night, only ten pitches thrown when pulled. It was a classic Doc move, it was dumb and possibly cost him the game, just like it has countless times before.
The other big screw up was having Kelly come in in the 6th with Choi up to bat. He should have brought in McGee to exploit Choi’s splits, but he went with Kelly and the two lefty’s punished him for it.
The main issue is the Dodgers have a very weak bench. Take any 9 of the 13 and you have nothing left to hit for anyone. This must be addressed.
If we lose this series:
Not a second guess. Many of us said way back our starting pitching was vulnerable. We lost price, hill, stripling, ryu, and maeda. We were hoping the young guns could do it. May and Gonsolin are getting worse as the series moves forward. Doc would have to think long and hard before using these guys again. But, he doesn’t have anybody else.
Second, why In the he.. did the national league series end after the American League? That just seems unfair. I’m sure it is about money. Usually the best record goes first ends first. That should be the advantage of having the best record.
Dylan Hernandez of The LA Times has it figured out too:
https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2020-10-21/dodgers-rays-world-series-starting-rotation
Woulda-coulda-shoulda turning point in 4th inning. Gonzalez does his job by getting Choi to hit a perfect double play ground ball to Hernandez for inning ending double play, but Kiké bobbles the ball, only gets one out, and Rays get two runs. No error charged under scoring rules, but Kiké makes that play 99 times out of 100. Will Smith’s line drive to third base was smoked! Very seldom do I see a major league player flinch like Joey Wendle as he was making the catch.
I am really becoming a Will Smith fan. He is the real deal. I used to believe he was a solid defensive backup Catcher, but after they re-tooled his swing, he has shown that he is going to be an All-Star.
Will he stay at Catcher or maybe move to 3B? I guess that depends upon the other options and Ruiz’s progress. I can see him being an All-Star Catcher however – he is reminding me of a young Buster Posey. Posey is s little bigger, I but I still see similarities.
I am happy to be wrong in cases like this.
Ditto! I like the way he plays the game, his athleticism, apparent baseball IQ, etc., etc. I am hoping that Ruiz is the real deal behind the plate to pair with Barnes and let Smith move to another position that will extend his career. Everything we read is that Cartaya will one day be the Dodgers catcher as well. Will Smith at third base, or left field?
I have been a Smith fan from the beginning and now think that Barnes is the perfect backup catcher. Hoese and Rios are penciled in for third base but Smith could wind up being the long term third baseman.
If Cartaya is the real deal then he could be paired with Barnes down the road if Smith moves to third. That would allow the Dodgers to trade Ruiz who would allow a team to put money that they might have spent on Realmudo on someone like Bauer instead.
Kike’ did not fumble the double play grounder. He caught it cleanly but for reason rotated his glove in a way that when he reached into it, the glove thumb was between the ball and Kike’s hand. Should that be spelled Kike”s glove? His defense is entertaining and it seems so unfair for a plus plus defensive second baseman to have a miscue in a WS.
The Rays are in the WS for a reason. They’re not going to roll over. Still, I like our chances. We get a day’s rest, and then Buehler, Urias, and Kersh. That’s a formidable combination. And we are stronger offensively than the Rays. If we can do some damage in the first 6 innings, we should be fine.
We got outpitched. 5 hits and 15 strikeouts? Yoiks. The Rays are the best team in the American League. Anyone who thought we would sweep is not being realistic.
It wasn’t ruled an error but everyone who saw it knows 2 runs were unearned. And Kiké knows it. You could see it on his face. Can’t blame Doc for that, though I’m sure some might try.
I don’t know what’s wrong with May but his outing last night was terribly disappointing. His stuff is undeniable, but obviously he has a lot of work to do. Gonsolin got the L, but he wasn’t the loser, May was. And about Gonsolin, I saw it again last night, his splitter isn’t working. If he doesn’t have that pitch he’s hittable.
I agree with everything Hernandez wrote.
The Times article has it about right. Besides Wood, I think May will benefit greatly from multiple days off. He’s been pitching on 2 days rest and could use a reset.
Well said Badger and David!!! Snell was lights out with total command of his pitches… It hurts to repeat, that good pitching beats etc. etc.
May or Gonsolin… Have I got it wrong, or could a few games at the AAA level, helped them both for the pre season??? But then again it’s 2020 with all it’s problems…
A day off is good…Play with the family and lock and load for Fri…
Excuse my ignorance, but why did Gonsolin get the loss last night? The dodgers lost by 2 runs. Gonsolin gave up 1 in 1.1 innings. May gave up runs 3,4,&5 in 1.1 innings. I would have thought that he would take the loss.
The Dodgers went behind during Gonsolin’s innings and never tied or took the lead after that, so he automatically got the loss.
Thank you dodgerrick.
It’s one of those scoring rules that isn’t logical. A starter can go 5+ and not get a win while in the same game a reliever can get 1 out and get that W. I believe that’s why statheads don’t put much value on pitchers wins and losses. I’ve heard scuttlebutt that they might change that, but not sure where it stands.
Thanks for your input Badger. Some of the rules do seem strange.
I said I thought the Dodgers would sweep the Rays in 4. Well that didn’t happen and going against there best pitcher with us our 5th starter seems the obvious outcome would not be victory last night. But by loosing but just two runs there was a possibility if a few things went our way the second win could have happened. I’m thinking the Dodgers got this and on Sunday we will all be celebrating!
OMG.
I’ve tried to taper down this instinct, but the grammar in the above post is cringe-worthy.
THEIR not THERE.
LOSING not LOOSING.
BY not BUT
HAVE THIS not GOT THIS.
Please. Let’s keep the discourse at a grade school level.
What would have helped May and Gonsolin would not being over used in the NLCS but we had to to win that series. The fact we got only one day off to their two a total disadvantage to the team with the best record. Third game game is crucial. Buehler needs to out duel Morton. Lots of high heat. Don’t try to get cute with off speed in the zone like May. Morton shut us down two years ago so could be a tight low scoring game. We need the early lead!
I just don’t get these bullpen games. Basically your saying that we are probably going to lose so let’s use the relievers to get through this defeat and move on. But, if we happen to pull off an upset, awesome. In the World Series?? I can maybe see doing this during a long season where the starters might have injuries or need rest, but during a World Series. Who thought this was a good idea? Some quant, who’s never played baseball, sitting in a dark room thinking about he or she can come up with bizarre scenarios for the game of baseball.
I mean Gonsolin wasn’t even allowed to settle into the flow of the game. His performance during the playoffs is well off what he was doing during the season. I assume he’s a little anxious mentally anyway because he is pitching in the playoffs. But, to add in the factor of the first mistake you make you’re out of the game. If that’s the case don’t even bother starting him. Same with May situation. I was hoping they would be assets during the playoffs, but that has not happened. The playoff pressure and usage has made them ineffective and basically useless. It’s how they have used Urias during his time with the Dodgers. You’re a starter, but for now you might be a reliever, but we might need you make a spot start, but only for an inning or so, or maybe for several innings, or until you make a mistake then we’ll have to take you out and decide that maybe you aren’t a starter after all and should be a reliever, but what kind of reliever? An innings eater? Eight inning guy? Closer? Opener? Please, don’t let that happen to these two talented pitchers. Decide their role and develop them to succeed in that role.
Meanwhile, let’s watch the Dodger starters dominate the Rays the rest of the WS and let the Rays to continue to use their playpen, excuse me, bullpen to try and stop the Dodger hitters. I think the Dodgers will prevail.
Carry on.
Opener is a thing now, so without Price we were going to see it. It would be helpful if May and Gonsolin could go multiple innings, as in at least two, hopefully 3. With two off days in this series that would allow them both to do it again later. It’s my opinion that Doc got Gonsolin out of there because his slider was rolling and his splitter was a belt high nothing ball. Not sure what was happening with May but my advice to him is to throw that 100 mph cheese more often. High and tight low and away. Whatever it was he was trying to do wasn’t working.
As for the idea of an Opener, I’m on board with it. What difference does it make whether it’s the first or the 8th? You’ve got one of your better arms going against the top of the order. Also, those who know me know I’ve been professing using the closer in the inning that they most likely will score go ahead runs and that’s exactly what Cash is doing. Good for him.
When you don’t allow a starter to go multiple innings, it shows a lack of confidence in them. Doc doesn’t have the confidence in May and Gonsolin, pure and simple, so he is hedging his bet. It could go either way, 50-50. They put themselves in this position knowing the rookies had limited experience and would be vulnerable. Wood is no solution to this as he also started out as a starter this season. The mouth breather is lucky to be on the roster, he didn’t earn it. When you throw your most vulnerable pitchers out there, you are essentially saying to the Rays, take your best shot. They did.
Even though we lost one last night, there were some high points. Seager continues to make the case that he is a good choice for MVP with his defensive play and home run. Kudos to Smith, Floro and Gonzalez. I thought Wood showed why he made the roster. He came through when we needed him and pitched very well.
The Rays are a very good team and deserve to be in the World Series. That said, my money and heart are still with the Dodgers to win it all.
Seager made a great defensive play? I must have missed it. Are you talking about that diving backhanded stop? That was against Seattle four years ago.
As we get deeper into the series, I can see our depth wearing them out. Just keep doing what we do….. except for that strikeout thing. I’ll never be able to accept swinging out of your shoes on a two strike pitcher’s pitch. Shorten up. Protect. Then punish a mistake if you see it.
Sorry, Badger, I should have said not just last night but throughout the entire playoff series, Seager has been good defensively and offensively. Sorry, but still stick with my MVP of Seager for the whole playoffs, my prediction.
Mine too.
A shout out to CT3 for his homerun last night. Taylor is becoming very dependable and clutch. Did not mean to forget him.
Several thoughts about the Series so far:
1 – Gonsolin and May don’t appear to be ready for post-season baseball but the way that they’ve been used doesn’t help. Guys get into the mindset of being a starter or a reliever and some have trouble switching back and forth. I don’t think that the way that they’ve been used has put them in the best chance to succeed, but neither one of them have executed either. Also, Gonsolin didn’t pitch for 19 days between the end of the regular season and his 1st appearance against the Braves. This didn’t help either.
2 – Looking at the way that the rotations set up, Game 2 looked like the one that the Dodgers were most likely to lose. The Rays had their ace going and the Dodgers had it set up to be a bullpen game basically. They still only lost by 2 and knocked Snell out before the 5th. I like our chances to win in 5 if Buehler, Urias and Kershaw do their jobs in the next 3 games.
3 – The Dodgers’ hitters are just too much better than the Rays’. They have been grinding them down with their patience. And the more that they see these pitchers that they really don’t know well, the better that they should be – like they did to the Braves in games 5 – 7. I predict big things for the offense as the Series goes on, and they’ve been pretty successful already.
4 – New age baseball – I prefer set rotations. That’s just not the way that it’s done any more, but I don’t have to like it.
I get what you’re saying. I think teams like the Rays do what they do out of necessity. Those guys, all $28 million of them just polished off 3 of the top 4 payroll teams in baseball and now they are up against #2. They have to get creative and let’s face it – it’s working.
If we had Price we could roll 4 quality starters at these guys and wear them out in likely less than 7. We may do it anyway. But I respect what the lesser payroll teams are doing . Their $/W is remarkable.
Roberts got all these commendations for the use of the bullpen in Game 7 of the Braves series, so he thought he would do it again; or more likely, that is just what he always does, try to create a masterpiece of selected brush strokes. He starts Gonsolin, who gives up a run, and has a runner on third with one out and then, puts in Floro, who does a a good job, stops the rally, pitches one more inning; and then he takes him out and puts in May. He leaves in May to give up four runs, and the game is essentially over, though the Dodgers did rally pretty well, but you are unlikely to make up a five-run deficit against Tampa Bay. He then uses more relievers, including Kelly, who immediately gives up two hits and a run. The more pitchers you use, particularly with our staff, the more likely you are to land on one or two who are not effective. Roberts doesn’t have Tampa Bay’s bullpen, and he shouldn’t play it like he does.
Now, one may ask, what else was he supposed to do? With our short-handed starting staff, we have a problem. These “bullpen games” for us in a world series are almost embarrassing. Of course the management did not do anything to reinforce the starting staff when it was learned that Price would not pitch, so we were always going to have this problem, which was hidden in the regular season because of level of opponents and relative lack of scouting by the opposition. We started Gonsolin in Game 2 of the Braves series, and he left with the score 7-0 in their favor. Last night, Gonsolin and May left us with 5-0. It is extremely difficult to win a series against a very good team, when you are almost conceding two of the games. Do we think that Gonsolin or May is going to beat Snell in Game 6? That means that unless we somehow win the next three games, we are going to face a Game 7 at best, Buehler against Morton and the entire Tampa Bay bullpen which never gives up a lead after six innings..
The management thought that we could win the title with only two proven starters, or maybe they just hoped we would. We have gotten this far. But we are depending on a major start from Urias,, and somehow one good start from Gonsolin or May. We have a better lineup than Tampa Bay, but they have the asset which we never have, which is a virtually impregnable bullpen. They also have more proven starting pitchers than we do, and a manager who is very adept at using his staff. We’ve only played two games, but the problems for us are evident. We will see if we have enough talent to deal with them. A number of people who were confident that our rookie pitchers were going to be just fine in the playoffs, were being very optimistic.
“A number of people who were confident that our rookie pitchers were going to be just fine in the playoffs, were being very optimistic.“
Yep. And I’m one of them. But even with the loss of Price, and with Buehler and Kershaw dinged, we had the best record in baseball and are now in the World Series. I think our pitching is fine. It’s our off and on offense that concerns me more. If we hit, we will beat these guys. If we don’t, they might make it close. We saw their best pitching last night and we played them dead even. If not for a Kiké screw up, we might have come back and beat ‘em.
My confidence level is high.
Badger, you have played the game, and I am sure that you have a better ability than I do to evaluate pitchers in terms of their career potential, and so do the Dodgers’ front office and coaches. My remembering of it was that May was very highly rated from the outset, Gonsolin more under the radar, was slotted as a relief pitcher. It is very possible that May will indeed be a great star, though sometimes they never reach their potential. But right now, he is not impressive. I do remember Buehler being wild high when he was starting out in the major leagues in relief appearances. Kershaw was also wild. it usually takes a couple of years to mature, think of the all-time great Sandy Koufax. With May, it seems that he is not hitting spots, he is throwing too many pitches down the middle. Some here commented after his first outing against the Braves , or maybe the Padres, that he looked scared; which may be too harsh, but he certainly does not look confident, he looks like a very young pitcher thrust into the World Series without a proven body of work behind him.
Gonsolin I thought was the cannier pitcher, but he has disappointed, too, he cannot even pitch two scoreless innings in a row. My thought has always been that Dodgers fans and management often overrate their young talent, which may be true of all franchises, but very noticeable here. You look at May and Snell in their comparative stages of development, and Snell has a big edge. Unfortunately, they get matched against each other. I don’t think Price was the answer, either,but we wanted to dump some salary, so let Ryu and Maeda and Hill all go. And just as a musing question, what if May is not that great next year, what kind of starting staff are we planning to have? Of course this ownership group has never picked up a bona fide star pitcher from trade or free agent deal, they don’t like to take that kind of risk, though they did offer Cole a lot. That requires a number of the young pitchers to smoothly fit right in to the rotation. Buehler did, but he is rare. When Joe Kelly came up with the Cardinals, he was supposed to be a star, he threw so hard, but he never became one, just had one great World Series as a reliever for Boston. And I remember Joe Moeller and Pete Richert and Dick Calmus for the Dodgers, and of course Darren Dreifort.
I tried to address what I think is going on with those two. May keeps hitting 100 mph. Damm. You got THAT as a starter, go to the head of the class. What he doesn’t have is other spinning stuff that he can spot. I haven’t checked, but my guess is his spin rate is mediocre. Here’s the thing about that, as I see it anyway, a tight spin rate is difficult to pick up. Why is that important? If you can see spin right out of the hand you know immediately where the ball is going. A fastball spins backward. Everything else but palm and circle change ups spin forward. I had 20/10 vision in my right eye, 20/20 in my left. I could always see the spin and until Connie Mack ball I thought everybody could. You can bet all these Major Leaguers have great vision. If you aren’t spinning that ball these guys are going to make contact. It’s my opinion May needs a straight change or a cutter that bites. With 100 you only need 1 other pitch at about 88 to get hitters off balance.
I’ve said this already, I think Gonsolin has lost feel for his splitter. He still hits 95 with his heater and that’s fine if he spots it and can get his breaking stuff to fall off the table. Something is wrong with him and I have no idea what it is but if he can’t drop the ball he’s really of no use.
Good stuff Badger. I had 20/10 vision and could easily recognize pitches and see spin. I thought, as you did, everybody could. I had an optometrist actually ague that it wasn’t possible. I said you had to or you couldn’t play. It’s harder now than in my time as there are more pitches to recognize from the same arm slot. And the veto has increased but in pro ball that wasn’t a problem unless the guy was the “gas-man”. We were interesting in the movement. When I saw my first legit knuckle-curve with that tight overspin that looked like a strike and bounced on the plate, I knew my days were numbered.
One of the poorest guys with pitch recognition I watched was Mike Zunino when he caught for the Mariners. He was a total sucker for a breaking ball away like he couldn’t see the spin. And he is a catcher who sees all the spin. Never figured that one out.
You get it Phil.
I didn’t get a chance to play college or pro. I joined the Marines instead.
I’m 20/40 now. I was able to play competitively (MABL in Napa Valley) until I was in my 50s but it all went quickly.
I have seen several guys make a living straightening out fastballs, but, have trouble laying off breaking balls away. Matt Kemp is the one comes to mind. We have a team of guys who can hit fastballs. And we have a few who can fight off curves.
William, I liked your post but I don’t think you went far enough with how the Dodgers are treating Urias. Urias is ahead of both May and Gonsolin and they are still babying him in spite of his good pitching in the playoffs. He seems like the odd man left out with so much emphasis on May and Gonzo. Personally, I thought Urias should have been ready to pitch Game 2. Was he ailing? I’ve heard nothing about it. And, with the day off after Game 2, it would give an extra day for CK and Buehler to rest up.
I immensely dislike the opener. And i am pretty sure most pitchers do not like it either. May definitely did not have good stuff last night in his first inning. He looked better when he went out in the second inning of work, but then he hung one and Lowe did not miss it. I honestly think I would have went with Wood as the opener. He has the experience, and the moment would not overwhelm him. He did a very good job last night. But like Badger said, you have to hit to win. This was one of those games where the offense just never really got untracked. I think the most maddening thing for me is that with two strikes, these guys just do not protect the plate. They take pitches right down the pike and the bat never leaves their shoulder. Barnes did that a couple of times in game one. Smith and Bellinger did it last night. I still think that overall, the Dodger offense will get the job done. But they need to be a little crisper on defense, and aggressive on pitches in the strike zone. It wasn’t all on him, but last nights ump had a pretty generous strike zone. Some of those strike calls were way out of the zone. Go get em tomorrow.
I must have been watching a different game. Last nights ump missed so many low strikes it was comical.
Yeah he did. And he missed some that were off of the plate. But you can’t blame the ump if you do not hit the ball.
1 out of 6. He’s a B- umpire behind the plate in a World Series. He’s one of the glaring examples of why this game needs ABS.
A couple of notes. Manfred wants to keep the man on second extra inning rule, but I think that will be a hard sell to the players union. He also likes an expanded playoff format that would not be the 16 team deal we had this time, but a 14 team playoff with the two best records getting a bye. They will have to be negotiated with the players union after the season. The universal DH will also have to be addressed. Dodgers are the road team the next 3 games. Just a mention here, there were much better as the road team than as the home team this year. Charlie Morton, tomorrow’s starter has a 0.67 ERA this post season. Morton is more a breaking ball pitcher than throwing heat. The Dodgers at least this season have not been really great against those kinds of pitchers. And they faced Morton in the 17 World Series and were not too good. But, he is a career plus 4 ERA pitcher, so he can be hit. He just has been exceptional this post season. Dodgers need to be ready for his off speed stuff.
With all the complaining about May and Gonsolin remember they both started out okin the playoffs. I think a few days of rest will help them.
Gonsolin has had zero good games in the playoffs. In game 2 against the Braves (his 1st appearance in the post-season), here’s his line:
4.3 IP 3 H 5 ER 3 BB 7 K 10.38 ERA
In game 7 against the Braves:
2 IP 2 H 2 ER 3 BB 1 K 9.00 ERA
Then he pitched last night – 3 bad appearances, no good ones.
Gonsolin was good for 3 innings in his first game against the Braves. Hasn’t been good since. Long layoff and the being thrown out to pitch every other day hasn’t helped.
Pitchers are creatures of habit even young ones. May and a Gonsolin took the ball every 5 or 6 days during the season. Now they’re being thrown out there every couple of days as openers doing what the team has asked them. Price or no Price if they were allowed to pitch the way they had during the season they would be fine.
Tough loss last night. We are fine with plenty of bullets left. Some thoughts:
* As a coach, I used to stress with young pitchers the importance of dominating the bottom of a batting order. The Rays pitching dominated the Dodger’s 6 – 9 guys including the pinch hitters. We were 1 for 14 with 8 K’s. That was unusual as we’ve had a strong line up throughout when we have won.
* While Betts was 0 for 3, he again showed his attention to detail in doing the little things well to try to win games. On the ball rocketed to right over his head he took the perfect angle to play the bounce off the wall, whirled and threw a perfect one-hopper to 2nd holding the batter to a single. He obviously knew how that ball would ricochet. Yeah, they’ve been in that park for 3 weeks but I’ll bet he spent time reading fungoes off the wall. He seems to leave little to chance.
* With the exception of Floro and maybe Wood, none of the 7 pitchers pitched well.
* I’m not going to comment on the use of a “Bull Pen” game in the 2nd game of a World Series. If it worked, Doc would be a genius. But it didn’t. But, like stevieD, I do find it odd that after 74 games, the Dodgers are still searching for a 4th starter. And maybe a 3rd if the plan to use Urias as a Bulk guy with an opener.
* A-Rod, who we all love, did have an interesting comment post-game. He said “the decision to make this a bull-pen game and not start Buehler was not trying to out-talent the Rays but to “Out-Smart” them.” Something, I will say, Doc loves to do.
* I’m trying to be open minded and get use to the new way run a rotation and a bull-pen. While I could see this style coming 3 years ago, like dodgerrick, I’m not sure I like it. I’m learning on the run here.
The bullpen game kinda worked Phil. We played them dead even, 4-4. You and I could have turned that double play.
Agree in theory about the bottom of the lineup That of course applies better in high school. This Dodger lineup is pretty deep. Deeper than theirs is, that’s for sure.
We need to hit as a team. 15 Ks is ridiculous. Put bat to ball with 2 strikes dammit. Knowing these umps are going to miss 1 out of 6, you just have to protect. That strike zone is 2” bigger on all edges. My advice is to not try to hit the ball 400’ on a pitch you are swinging at to protect. I remember guys like Carew, Brett and Gwynn fouling of pitchers pitches until they got a mistake. I miss watching guys like that.
Dodgers are built for the HR, Badger. You would have to replace some of our players before this would change.
Useless fact; The home team has lost 10 of the last 11 WS games.
Morton can also bring mid 90’s heat. If he’s on it’s gonna be a tough one and Buehler will need to be his post season self! Also we did hit 2 hr’s off the back of their bullpen so that’s a good sign moving forward. That was a winnable game if Kike makes the double play and May throws his 99 stuff up instead of spinning mid-mid sliders to an off speed hitting team. That was the biggest dah for me last night
To William and others who are complaining that we didn’t go out and get another proven starter before the deadline, the primary candidate for that would have been someone like Lance Lynn who would have cost us some pretty good prospects. How did Lynn pitch after the trade deadline? 20 runs in 32.2 innings (approx 5.60 ERA). In the meanwhile both Gonsolin and May were pitching very well. There was no way to know that once the playoffs started they would become ineffective. I agree with those who say that the way they’ve been used in the post season certainly hasn’t helped their confidence levels.
Doc is already talking up Wood. I would expect to see him start rather than either May or Gonsolin when that game comes up.
I was thinking that Roberts, who is simply an upbeat manager who almost always praises his players, may actually convince himself of what he is saying. For example, not a big deal, but after the first game, he praised all our relievers including Kelly for their work. Well, the first batter Kelly faced in that game with an 8-3 lead. came within a foot of a homerun. So he put Kelly out there again last night, and he gave up a run, as usual. Wood has been very unimpressive all season, sometimes worse than that. Now, because of two good innings in a game we were losing, he decides that he wants to start him? How did Wood pitch in Game 2 against Atlanta? Well, maybe he will stunningly recapture his form of his very good season with the Dodgers, or at least half-season. Or he will be the Wood of the last three or four years, and give up four runs. I will say that he looked poised last night, but of course he came in when we were behind, without much pressure.
William wrote: “Wood has been very unimpressive all season, sometimes worse than that. Now, because of two good innings in a game we were losing, he decides that he wants to start him? How did Wood pitch in Game 2 against Atlanta? Well, maybe he will stunningly recapture his form of his very good season with the Dodgers, or at least half-season. Or he will be the Wood of the last three or four years, and give up four runs. I will say that he looked poised last night, but of course he came in when we were behind, without much pressure.” First of all, Wood was hurt for most of the season in 2020, so 2019 and 2020 were lost years, and his next contract will reflect that. “Or will he be the Wood of the last three or four years and give up four runs?” Three years ago, Wood was an All-Star and had the best winning % in MLB. In 2018, it did not go as well and yet he was 9-7 with a 3.68 ERA and 1.207 WHIP. Not bad numbers for a #5, but not good enough when your standard for any starting pitcher is he must be a CY candidate. He had the second most IP in 2018 for LAD, so he helped the team get to the postseason and eventually get to the WS. How did Wood pitch in Game 2 against Atlanta? Actually not bad. He did give up a run, but if you ask Mookie Betts, that run was all on him. Mookie takes full responsibility for not catching the Dansby Swanson fly ball. But then again, if you do not like a player, why let what a GG RF says change your mind? Other than that, Wood has not allowed a run in his next two outings (3.0 IP). I will say that he looked poised last night, but of course he came in when we were behind, without much pressure. A WS game while losing only 6-3 when your team is known to be able to come from behind. No pressure? The game got to 6-4 and had a runner on 2B with nobody out and Muncy, Smith, and Belli coming up. Maybe Alex handled the pressure and Muncy, Smith, and Belli did not. But if you do not like a player, just keep telling yourself he is bad. Wood has done nothing to indicate that he cannot handle the pressure of a WS. Maybe go back and look at Game 4 in the 2017 WS in a must win game being down 2 games to 1 and playing in Houston. He may not be your ideal Ace, but he handles pressure just fine. Can May or Gonsolin say the same?
Wood has been pitching more aggressively than I remember in the past. I’m not sure that his control has been as good perhaps but I like that he hasn’t been nibbling. Wood also pitched very well against the cheatin’ Astros in the 2017 Series. Given what we have seen from May and Gonsolin thus far, if the Series goes to game 6 and they don’t want to start Buehler on short rest, Wood may be a good choice.
I think you have to consider wood if you get back to Gonsolin and may. Wood may be pitching well at the right time if he is healthy. U know he handled the pressure earlier and if he is on he could be the guy. I quit watching last night after Kike gave them 2 runs and we were being no hit.
For May he has a 99 mph pitch and he is throwing curve balls 0-2. At least get beat with your best pitch. I think Justin turners window is closing. He cannot catch up to the fastball and it is sad to c. He has been such a clutch player who never struck out but he has definitely been overmatched. I doubt he can do anything about but u can bet Tampa will try to exploit it.
The mouth breather has my vote of no confidence. It’s actually insulting that they would use him taking into account how he played during the season. I know I’m harsh about this, but he had no right being signed by AF. He didn’t help the team at all during the season. I believe in earning a spot.
Then he better be talking up the 6-7 runs we’ll need!
Look out Mike Trout — Mookie Betts is now the best player in baseball
Says The Athletic:
https://theathletic.com/2154645/2020/10/22/posnanski-look-out-mike-trout-mookie-betts-is-now-the-best-player-in-baseball/
Love Mookie and really enjoy watching him play.
To say he is better than Trout is laughable though
Hannah Keyser of Yahoo Sports on Roberts’ use of May and Gonsolin in the post-season:
” Rookie Tony Gonsolin, throwing on two days rest, gave up a first-inning home run to Brandon Lowe. Going only 1 1/3 innings brought his postseason ERA up to 9.39. In nine regular season games, eight of them starts and all on four or five days rest, he posted a 2.31 ERA.
His fellow rookie Dustin May, also on two days rest, gave up four runs in 1 1/3 innings. He has yet to throw more than two innings, either starting or in relief, across six appearances this postseason, twice pitching on one day of rest and twice more on three days rest. He has a 5.00 ERA in October after a regular season in which he posted a 2.57 ERA across 12 games, 10 starts, all on four or five days rest.
Asked if he was putting his young pitchers in a position to succeed, manager Dave Roberts credited their accountability, acknowledged that it was uncharted territory, and ultimately said, “That’s a question for them.””
This has not been a successful strategy thus far.
Well, what’s done is done. We stand here 1-1 with Buehler/Urias/Kershaw slated to pitch the next three games and Blake Snell in the rear window for now.
Honestly, I consider Wood the G6 starter at this point but truthfully it would be just a true bullpen game.
We stared down Atlanta when things were looking far worse. Let’s let this taste of adversity in our mouth be a reminder of how far we’ve come.
There is no panic when you have the talent we have. Everyone just needs to do his part and when the dust settles the better team will be standing.
I take solace in the fact we played a clunker and were still in it. No more clunkers. (There are no scraps in my scrapbook.) Go Dodgers.
Well said DodgerLover
Dodgers postseason team stats:
Team OPS .815 2nd best out of 16 teams.
Team starting pitching ERA 3.22 4th best out of 16 teams.
Team relief pitching ERA 3.80 9th best out of 16 teams.
Looks to me that we are hitting fine 2nd best, our starting pitching is towards the top 4th best, but our relief pitching is below the average.
There’s only 1 way to point the finger and that’s at the bullpen.
1. I would not have guessed that Wood might start a WS game this year. Nor would I have guessed that he might be a good choice to start and succeed in a WS game this year.
2. If we are happy that Betts is a Dodger not only for his skill but for the fun and entertainment he brings then it stands to reason we would also love Lindor who brings the same enthusiasm and fun that Betts brings. Betts, Seager, and Lindor and hopefully Bellinger would be a total delight to have on the Dodgers.
3. Given that Snell is the Rays Ace and considering he is also a lefty, then the fact that he was on his game and still couldn’t complete 5 innings against the Dodgers seems to shout that the Dodgers are pretty awesome.
pretty compelling case by Ms. Keyser. Hard to argue that the strategy didn’t work very well last night. DR has pretty well shot Gonsolin and May for 3-4 days now. Like I said, why we don’t have 3-4 starters set up and ready to go is frustrating. Pick a guy–Gonsolin, May, Wood, Stripling (Ooops!), etc. and let him go. That’s what starters and relievers are for.
Betts and Bellinger announced as candidates for a Gold Glove at their position. I think Betts will easily take the honor. Belli has some stiffer competition. All the crying about the starting pitching and the bullpen is basically useless. There is far more pressure to succeed in the post season. All the stats from the season are usually useless. They just give you a starting point. At the beginning of the year, the Dodgers were felt to have the best rotation in baseball, or close to it. Then Price opted out, they traded some depth in Stripling, and the kids stepped in. Fact is 26 of their 43 wins came from the bullpen. Which has been much maligned ever since the playoffs began. I get it, i really do. But, Gonsolin does not pitch for 17 days, comes in, has 3 good innings before he runs out of gas and the game gets away. To me, that is on the manager for not letting him pitch for that long a period. When he got normal rest, he was extremely effective. Pitched a couple of the better games we have seen this season. May was the same way. When he was on a regular schedule, he was much more effective, and his stuff was crisper than the crap he was throwing last night. The wins by the bullpen also show that they usually rallied late to win games. Yesterday was no different. They left a runner stranded on second who was there with no outs. Not only did the first hitter up, Muncy, not move him over, but the next two struck out with the bat sitting on their shoulder. You are not going to score a lot of runs that way. I love Rios power, but the guy really needs some schooling on the strike zone. He consistently swings at pitches low in the zone that he could not hit even if he was a gopher.
I expect Mookie to win the GG in RF. I think Acuna gets it in CF, but it would not be a major surprise if Belli got it.
I noticed that, not surprisingly, Corey Seager was not included in the top 3. But neither was Francisco Lindor. Carlos Correa was for the AL. Why not some Badger love for Correa who is an absolute gamer when it comes to the playoffs. He is eligible for FA the same time as Seager and Lindor and Story. J.P. Crawford (SEA) and Niko Goodrum (DET) are the other two AL candidates. In the NL, interesting to note that Dansby Swanson was nominated, after leading all ML SS in errors in 2017. Javy Baez (CHC) and Miguel Rojas (MIA) are the other two NL candidates.
https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=fld&lg=all&qual=y&type=1&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=&enddate=
Correa could work. His big years were 3 years ago but he’s steady enough. Better fielder that’s for sure.
As Mark alluded to above, last night felt very much like a Sun Tzu strategy. In fact, I would be willing to bet a lot of money that there is something like The Art of War baseball handbook that analytics nerds live and die by.
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If you are down by 2 runs or less after the 4th inning of game 2, you engage the enemy in battle. However, if you are down by 3 runs or more after the 4th inning then you retreat and save your best weapons for the next game… or something like that.
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It’s definitely a strategy I can understand, not one that I necessarily agree with, since I hate the idea of giving up on games in the World Series (especially when we had an off day between games 2 and 3) But I can definitely see what they’re trying to do. You just have to hope they know what they’re doing and that this strategy ends up working.
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I really like their chances in games 3, 4, and 5. However… if I’m being honest, a potential game 6 “bullpen game” does scare the crap out of me… if this series isn’t wrapped up before then.
Gonsolin hasn’t looked good but I am still bullish on him.
I don’t want to see May again this year. Send him to find a decent secondary pitch or pitches. He fools almost nobody.
Betts has been a joy to watch as a fan of baseball. Doesn’t everything well, smooth and with purpose. Saying that, he has to start hitting and getting on base. Causing havoc for pitchers and being the “duck on the pond” for the big guys.
Muncy hasn’t looked good all year and, outside of a few moments, has carried over. Walks are nice and sometimes very good but as the 4 hitter. He needs to be a hitter.
I am not sure that many thought LA had a great chance to beat Snell if he was on his game. To me, that would have been an icing on the cake win and would have almost assured a title. I do think that Doc is right that they are in a great spot.
I am also curious to see the residual effect of Glasnow and the pitch count he had in his next start.
I feel pretty good right now. Another poor showing Friday night will change that though!! 🙂