Justin Turner is a Dodger-Legend to many, but to some he is a selfish, derelict murderer and baby-killer because after his positive COVID-19 test he was removed from the final game of the World Series in the seventh inning… only to come back on the field with and without a mask during the Championship Celebration.
First of all, what he did was wrong! Let’s get that out of the way! But, I am guessing he is not the first person to get “carried away at the moment.” Justin Turner… along with Clayton Kershaw, Kenley Jansen, and Pedro Baez are the only players who have appeared in every postseason series since 2014. After seven long years of frustration and then finally winning the elusive World Championship could cause a person to take leave of their senses to some degree.
Justin Turner was wrong! He should be punished. He should get a suspension next season for whatever number of games is deemed appropriate (5 to 10 games) for violating MLB’s edict not to go onto the field. The Dodgers should also get fined. They could have stopped it! I am sure Andrew Friedman will pay for it himself! It doesn’t make any difference whether the next test is negative or positive. Rob Manfred said that MLB is “investigating” this case. I will suggest there is nothing to investigate: He’s guilty. He’s human and he’s still the Heart and Soul of the 2020 Dodgers. Nobody can take that away.
He was wrong, but there are several mitigating facts that have to be considered:
- He was around his wife and teammates before and during the game, with and without a mask. The odds are, there was much more contact before and during the game than there was after the game.
- He was in the “bubble” and had been for a month with all of his teammates and their families. How was he exposed? I am sure contact tracing will reveal who spread it to him.
- While technically not an “outdoor” venue (transmission of the virus is greatly reduced in the great outdoors), the stadium may have been even better than the great outdoors, due to the flow of air through the HVAC system which continually moves the virus away from others. The level of infection is dramatically lower outdoors than indoors.
Still, he was wrong and he will pay a price. He is human and he screwed-up! Justin and Courtney will have to quarantine for two weeks and I suspect the entire team would have to as well. I think they should do that regardless. The fact of the matter is that 80% of people infected with COVID-19 have few or very light symptoms. Many have none. It depends upon the level (the sheer volume of the virus) that is inhaled. My wife and I both tested positive, but she had no symptoms while I ended up in the hospital. I understand the seriousness of it. The more COVID-19 Virus you inhale, the greater the chance of infection AND generally it is more severe with greater amounts of virus inhaled.
JT is human and he made a mistake. I am certain he will issue an apology, and at that moment, it is over for me. I would like to see JT come back and finish his career as a Dodger. He’s not a Hall-of-Famer, but to me, he is in the Dodger Hall of Fame. I love Justin Turner! Not everyone feels this way. One fan wrote this:
JT is getting everything he deserves and more. He tarnished his reputation with that selfish act and I lost tons of respect for him. I hope he retires.
There is an old saying “He that is without sin should cast the first stone.” In some countries, if you steal something, they cut your arm off. If you are gay they throw you off of a high building and of course, there is beheading. I guess anyone is free to think what they want. Bill Plunkett wrote this in the OCRegister:
Friedman defended Turner, saying he wore a mask and was “socially distancing” from teammates most of that time. But there are photos clearly showing Turner without a mask – including sitting on the pitcher’s mound next to the trophy flanked by Friedman and Dodgers manager Dave Roberts, both maskless.
“I think the people who were around him would be in the contact tracing web anyway – which is how close a lot of us have been around each other,” Friedman said Tuesday night. “The subsequent tests that we’re going to take are really important to figure out what we’re doing to do to make sure that any of us who are potentially positive do not spread it to other people.”
Turner posted on Twitter on Tuesday night that he is asymptomatic. But COVID-19 can spread from asymptomatic people. It is not clear how long an asymptomatic person can spread the virus.
“I think Justin wanted to come out and take a picture with the trophy and he did,” Friedman said.
“We did (follow protocol). When he came out of the game he went and was quarantined in a doctor’s office off to the side. … We’ve all been in a bubble and so I think the amount of contact and interaction between us that have been in that bubble is pretty high. So now it’s important to make sure that the people who are infected are subsequently quarantined. I think, by and large, it’s to make sure that we don’t spread it outside of this bubble because from a contact tracing standpoint we’re all kind of in that web.”
The fact of the matter is that the was more chance of exposure during the several hours of the game than for the few minutes after the game. Still, Justin Turner was wrong. Let’s get that apology and move on. There’s nothing to see here folks!
Here’s another look at this issue, which is very thought provoking.
Stephen A. Smith’s latest take:
Photo Credit: Eric Gay/Associated Press
Hard for me to listen to Stephen A.. I respect his point of view, I just don’t like being yelled at.
You are right Mark, what Turner did was wrong. They all agreed to protocols set forth and Turner violated them. There will be punishment, but if baseball follows its own stare decicis it will be a slap on the wrist.
When do you think this country will begin to take this crisis seriously?
In response to Bums post on the previous thread regarding what every team should do to improve:
“The Dodgers make their second huge trade of 2020 and acquire Francisco Lindor, shifting Corey Seager to third base.“
What a great idea.
Where have I heard that before?
Dodgers sign Seager to 10 year extension, trade for Gleyber Torres instead of Lindor, win 2021, 2022,… World Series
Torres is not that great defensively. Torres and Seager up the middle?
I’m an old shortstop and infield coach. From my perspective a vacuum at short bails out a pitching staff more than any position on the field. All pitchers are working hard to keep the ball out of the air, so, help them every way you can. That of course is old school thinking as now everything is about launch. But assists and range by shortstops and third baseman are still a thing. Seager is just not that kind of shortstop. And that isn’t opinion. I base that on stats. If you don’t believe me, look it up. “Best defensive shortstops in MLB by metrics”. Seager isn’t among the leaders. Lindor of course is.
I have already looked at Corey’s stats — all of them, and I will take the all around Seager at shortstop over Lindor. For me, I keep Seager at SS, trade for Torres to play 2b. Third base? Smith/Rios/Turner/Muncy/??? Until Kody Hoese is ready (2022?)
It’s not either or. Never has been.
It is when it comes to who plays SS. There is nothing that I have read which says that Seager is ready to switch positions. I take Seager all day, every day as the shortstop.
Both Lindor and Torres are great clubhouse guys and leaders. Torres would solve the second base challenge for years and he is like 23 years old. He won’t cost as much as Lindor during the years that Jansen and maybe Kershaw are on the payroll. If Turner is only signed for a max of 2 years, preferably one year at a time, Torres’ contract would not be a factor and to the extent that it would be through arbitration means that he was awesome.
An infield of Seager, Lindor, Torres, and either Muncy or Pete Alonso would be pretty good. Alonso is 26 next year and is not arbitration eligible until 2022. He would cost much less than Muncy. Torres will make close to $3M in 2021 and is arbitration eligible in 2022. Torres and Alonso are big righty bats.
I get both sides. Maskers and no-maskers.
I wear a mask, but one slip up with our COO got me the COVID-19. Everyone has recovered (we had 7 positive tests, including my wife who had no symptoms).
I have a hard time talking and breathing while wearing a mask and that was how I got it.
Finally, I will say this: Masks are not the salvation many people think, but they are better than the next best thing!
I did several things in my home at the start of this COVID-19 Pandemic.
1. I installed a humidifier (higher humidity helps your lungs).
2. I installed Ultraviolet/Ozone Bulbs on my supply and return side of my HVAC system so there is a continual killing of the virus all the time. I run the fan 24/7/365.
3. When I contracted the virus, I put an ozone generator on the return air of the room I quarantined in.
It ain’t no joke.
Good suggestions. Thanks for the tips.
It’s my opinion gatherings of “no-maskers” is foolish. We need to do what we can do and masks is something we can easily do.
Masks work more better when worn. Wearing one 90% of the time protects us no more than 90% of the time.
OK, so what discipline should be meted out to all of the MLB players who broke protocol, infected other teammates, coaches, etc. resulting in illnesses, postponed or canceled games? By no means am I trying to defend Turner’s selfish actions, but I believe MLB has set a precedent by not taking any (reported) discipline against players who put a lot more people at risk than did Turner.
I agree with you entirely, Mark. Who among us hasn’t made mistakes, including ones that may have (inadvertently) put other people at risk? We have some neighbors whom we invited over recently to celebrate our daughter’s birthday. We kept social distance in our livingroom, but didn’t wear masks. The next day, we learned that the husband hadn’t been feeling well for a couple of days, but they didn’t tell us. Then the day after the visit, he tested positive for Covid. Who was at fault? Yes, he should have told us he wasn’t feeling well. Yes, we should have worn masks. We let our guard down in a situation where we were celebrating. Fortunately, we didn’t develop symptoms, but just in case, we self-quarantined for 10 days. Moral of the story: We are human. We make mistakes.
I have always respected Justin for his leadership, talent, turning around his career, and work in the community. When you are a public figure, you have special responsibity, and are open to scrutiny. He should be punished. And he should say and do some things to try to undo any harm he has done. A simple admission that he was wrong is a good place to start. Not a Houston Astericks apology, but a genuine one.
I still have a lot of respect for Justin, and want him back on the team. Making a mistake is human, how you handle it shows your character. Let’s give him the chance to show his character.
“We are human. We make mistakes.“
What Turner did wasn’t a mistake. It was a conscious choice. No-maskers are for the most part doing what they do deliberately. I don’t know your neighbors so I can’t pass judgment on them but they should have known. And it’s your house. Maybe you should have insisted?
It’s going to take a shift in consciousness to get on top of this. It’s spreading the way it is because we as a society are just behaving stupidly.
When you were younger, did you ever behave “stupidly?”
Of course. But not everyone out there insisting on going maskless is young and stupid.
Mark’s comments seem on point to me. Turner was irresponsible and should be penalized. It is still not clear to me how long Turner was on the field after the game, how long he was maskless, and how much he socially distanced.
In terms of Badger’s comments, I am not sure we all agree when he says just wear a mask, and whether wearing masks will prevent one from getting the virus. I have seen reports that 85% of covid positive patients report wearing masks regularly. To me it is more important to socially distance and to wash hands, than to always wear a mask. Yes, masks should be worn when required and when social distancing is not possible. But to wear masks outdoors when exercising alone or when Driving alone, or when socially distancing is not necessary to me. And to think that wearing a mask will ensure that you do not get the virus is not accurate. We are continuing to learn more about this terrible virus, but there is so much that is still unknown.
“I have seen reports that 85% of covid positive patients report wearing masks regularly“
Trump said that and he was wrong. After that was said that the CDC came out and said this:
“On Wednesday afternoon, the CDC tweeted that “the interpretation that more mask-wearers are getting infected compared to non-mask wearers is incorrect.”
It’s important that we get accurate information on this. Unfortunately there is a lot of misinformation being thrown around
I would say ,yes he violated a MLB rule, but I wouldn’t say he was wrong. Do the crime and pay the time but hug your teammates and be in the picture! I’ll bet not one person gets ill from what he did, we’ll see. He was only with people he had already been around, and it was a super special moment.
I’m sure he would do the same thing today.
That is not the point David. Of course you are right about the fact everyone around Turner, including Tampa players had already been exposed. But once you get notified you are positive you must go into isolation. Every player, coach, management personnel, in fact everyone associated with MLB knew this and they ALL AGREED TO IT! He broke protocols and he knew full well he was doing it. It was a really stupid thing to do and he’s taking the heat for it. And so is the Dodgers organization because they allowed it.
What punishment is appropriate for those players that broke protocol, exposed teammates, and support staff, with resulting infections postponing, or canceling games?
Suspension.
Sarah Spain suggested fining him his World Series pay plus suspension.
Well, that will be an easy case for the union to win in arbitration when no other MLB player has yet to be disciplined for breaking protocol. At least none that have been reported.
I was looking at the list of Free Agents and hadn’t realised that JDL was available.
What do you think AC, has that ship sailed?
There’s some interesting names on there.
I would take a flier on De Leon as a bullpen piece.
I think the Dodgers can do better, but perhaps a minor league contract with spring training invite. Suspicious how he gains 3 mph on his average fastball velocity in 2020 when he sat at 91 – 93 mph for his career.
Hendriks, Treinen, Colomé.
You forgot Rosenthol and Hand.
Rosenthal projects at a 4.74 ERA.
I think the most egregious part of the Turner incident is the fact that he was pulled in the 7th inning of a deciding WS game! How the hell does this happen? How does this make any sense whatsoever? What about the integrity of the game? This could have had a really bad look with an error at 3B leading to an upset win by the Rays. What a total failure. You mean to tell me that they didn’t make sure testing was in place to have everyone take tests at the hotel with results in before they reached the stadium? And then to make a big fuss when he joined his teammates on the field for the celebration AFTER THE SEASON WAS OVER!!!??? What a joke that everyone is talking about JT’s irresponsible behavior and not talking about MLB’s irresponsible behavior. Then they’ll have another phony “investigation” like the one where Joe Kelly got a 8 game suspension for being wild and not hitting someone. Hell, he could have gotten a suspension every time he pitched this year following that logic. Or, the “investigation” that yielded a month for Julio’s girlfriend tripping over herself when the police didn’t even charge him. Or, the “investigation” that yielded no suspensions for the Astros cheating their way to a World Series title? What a joke!
Move on from JT. Any player that wasn’t comfortable being near JT had the personal choice to walk away from him. The season was over, there were no games in jeopardy.
Trade for Merrifield and sign Bauer! There’s so many relievers available. Hendricks, Colome, Rosenthol, Hand. Grab a couple and go for the repeat, with of course, bringing back JT on a two year, team friendly deal.
I would bet that none of those players will be Dodgers.
I would trade Lux for Merrifield even though Whit will be 32 next year but I doubt KC would.
I think KC would jump at that deal. I wouldn’t. Merrifield is on the wrong side of 30, costs money (about $12 million depending on PAs). Though he projects well (.781 OPS) I believe Lux could still be a super star. If he gets at bats he will get it together. We still don’t know about next year but I would not assume anything about when it will start and how many games will be played. Eventually we have to face some hard truths about this pandemic.
We don’t need much to keep it going.
I’m among those that think we need more right handed batters in the lineup. With Belli, Seager and Muncy, we have all the lefties that we need. DJLM is a free agent and can play 2B and 3B. Can they take advantage of Colorado and get them to pay some of Nolan’s contact? I would take that one as well.
Last year AF finally spit in the face of the salary cap and pulled off a boss move. There’s going to be a ton of opportunity to do the same this offseason and we have some chips to trade. Don’t be surprised if he shocks all of us with something nobody is thinking. The Brave and Padres are getting better, we need to keep the pressure on.
“ Last year AF finally spit in the face of the salary cap and pulled off a boss move.”
I would agree that trading for Betts was a ‘boss move’. However, I would argue that he did not ‘spit in the face of the salary cap’. His moves in the 2 – 3 prior years were all so they he could sign someone like Mookie (tho he is one of a kind) and still remain under the salary cap.
Right now, Betts is essentially the only money on the books in two years. I hope that changes with long terms contracts w Seager, Urías, Buehler, Bellinger etc.
AF has been playing the CBT game since he got here.
B&P,
Regarding JT and MLB,
Here here.
Darn shame we didn,t trade Lux for Mookie instead of Verdugo.
I honestly didn’t think it was that big of a deal. He played seven innings, was in the clubhouse and in the dugout before and during the game. I don’t think he should have hugged anyone and with the exception of taking pictures should have kept the mask on. But the entire team was exposed earlier. I believe Dave Roberts because of his prior health issues should have distanced himself a little more.
I’m guessing MLB will impose some type of penalty, but their goal was to get in a season and they did that. Once the season ends so does the protocols. Was it bad judgement, probably, but we’ll see if anybody else gets infected. But as I recall Manfred didn’t have his mask on during the ceremonies. Speaking, I get removing the mask, but he never put it back on. Dodger management did wear masks during the ceremonies.
So what should the Dodgers do moving forward. I would re-sign Turner to a short term deal. What about the trade for Lindor, move Cory Seager to third murmurs that persist even though Seager was the MVP of both the NL championship series and the World Series.
Did anybody actually consider that Seager may want to remain at shortstop. Why would he want to move? He probably wants to stay with the Dodgers — as a shortstop. There is a human element to all this. People aren’t chess pieces.
But we should also look at the financial side. It has been reported that baseball will lose three billion in 2020, not hard to believe since there were no fans. Stan Kasten said the Dodgers will lose $100 million in revenue this year and it will take years to recover.
It could be a bleak winter for free agents. The Dodgers need to sign Seager long term, Cody Bellinger and Walker Buehler too. Unless they’ve got a money printing press in the stadium, it’s difficult to see how they could do all that and afford Lindor long term. This is already an incredible team and everybody seems to agree they are built well for the future. Not to mention the massive contract they’ve already given Mookie Betts.
Will fans be back in the stands come spring. I would hope so. A new Orange County study by UC Irvine and OC public health found that the county’s infection rate was eight times higher than what is being reported. It is also far less deadly than was originally reported last spring. If you can pack mask people in an airplane, why can’t they attend a game outdoors?
With the vaccine and all the new treatments they have, time to move forward, not backward in dealing with this issue.
The Dodgers have depth, quality players throughout the line-up, excellent bench, bullpen, up and coming young players, the starters, with the exception of Turner, are all under 30. They have young starting pitching. Several baseball pundits, including Jayson Stark, have said the Dodgers may have the best minor league system in the game.
Smart leadership is the icing on the cake.
One more thought, we should give some credit to Ned Colletti, who had a hand in creating this championship team.
I think this is stupid. Justin Turner was with the team all day and 7 innings into the game. He could of effected everyone by then. If I was his teammate, I would of personally gone to the office and brought him out. Put the mask on and social distance and celebrate with us. He deserved it. This is more BS then I care to comment on. What about all the other MLB players that broke protocol this season. Did anything happen to them? Manfred is an idiot. Now I said what I think.
What he said
“People aren’t chess pieces.“
Sure they are. At one time or another most of us have been moved in ways for which we didn’t ask.
And likely Seager won’t want to move. ARod didn’t want to move and he did. Ask him about it now and I’m sure he would say “whatever makes the team better”. That of course is the right answer and Lindor obviously makes the team better. That said, I doubt it happens.
We still don’t get the “tested positive” implications. Once that happens the game changes.
Off season priorities
1. Resign JT
2. Extend Seager
3. Take a flier on a couple relievers
4. Comb through possible trades/free agents. See what’s available and would it be a significant upgrade? There will be lots of bargains this off season.
Re: #4. We are the best team in baseball. There aren’t a lot of places for significant upgrades. But this off-season is uncharted territory.
As I see it, position question marks are LF/3B/2B. I think we have 3B solutions if we resign JT. A 3rd or 4th outfielder (depending how you rate Pollock) to replace Joc if the price is right. We are thin in OF prospects. 2B is still a question until Lux proves he is the answer.
Re: Lindor:
1 – Fernando Tatis Jr. lead all MLB SS in outs above average and runs prevented in 2020. In 2019, Javier Baez lead and Andrelton Simmons (also a free agent) was 2nd – Lindor was 6th. In 2018, Nick Ahmed was far and away the best defensive SS in MLB. Chris Taylor was 9th in 2018, Seager 13th in 2019 and 22nd in 2020. Lindor is a good defensive SS but generally Simmons has been considered the best defensive SS in baseball for quite a while and Ahmed is close behind.
2 – Seager is generally competent at SS and makes all of the plays. And he can really hit if he’s healthy.
3 – Lindor will cost an arm and a leg to pry loose from the Indians and then will demand $30MM/year as a free agent in 2022. I doubt that he is worth the cost to the Dodgers in prospects or to sign to an extension.
4 – The Dodgers are going to have to shell out big to their own free agents in a few years. Kershaw is a free agent after 2021 and he’s not going anywhere but LA. Seager is a free agent in 2022, Bellinger and Urias in 2024 and Buehler in 2025. If they spend too much on other free agents they won’t be able to resign their own.
In Los Angeles, as everywhere, it is so important to emphasize the need for people to wear masks. I see many people not doing that, even when there are signs in various places mandating it. I see people wearing it around their neck, sort of like keeping a pass in your pocket to pull out any time someone might stop you. The masks are supposed to be worn, not as some sort of badge that gets you through.
It has been estimated that if 95% of the people wore masks for a few months, the virus might disappear. But too many people seem to think that “freedom” means that you get to do anything you want. Do you get to drive 95 mph through city streets, just because you feel like it? Do you get to go inside a restaurant and eat in the nude? Do you get to play your saxophone outside on the street at 4am because it makes you feel good? Of course not. The state, the city, has the right to mandate or ban certain actions for the public health and safety. Can we argue about them? Of course. But if people go around acting as if the state has no right to set health or safety policy, and everyone can just do what they want, they are risking everybody’s health, as we see on a daily basis, with these superspreader events, which have been documented to have spiked the virus when they occur. They have basically gotten rid of the virus in Australia and New Zealand which can be attributed to a larger space with less overall density, and a populace which listens to health authorities,and follows their protocols. Here, we have 1,000 people and now more, dying every day from it, with no end in sight, and maybe worse things ahead. How depressing and infuriating.
With that background in mind, I cannot just excuse Turner’s actions. I will say, as others have done, that he had been around those players for two weeks, and it is highly unlikely that five or ten minutes of standing around them, wearing a mask, would have been any greater of a risk. And I understand his wish to celebrate something he had been striving for, for many years. And it also comes amid the daily scenes of thousands of people going to various events conspicuously not wearing masks, as if it is a battle between the mask-wearers and the non-mask-wearers, to score points. Most media just lets this go, or shrugs and says, “well, there are two sides.” And for them now to be outraged at Turner, looks pretty ridiculous. Ken Rosenthal apparently thinks this is the only story of the World Series, obviating everything else, as if Turner has risked so many people, as opposed to the guy walking down a crowded street, talking loudly on his cell phone, oblivious to everybody else, and their rights to be protected. I see people like this every day, they are like a gauntlet that one has to get through just to do errands or take a walk.
So what does this all amount to? Turner deserves criticism. But he is hardly a dreadful person who acted in a way that millions of other Americans are not acting. That fact actually does make it more important to condemn it, because the alternative message, that it is no big deal, is very dangerous. But what he did probably did not seriously risk anyone’s health, in that situation, with him wearing a mask. It is a shame that this story is obscuring the World Series on the field, the Dodgers’ championship. If those people who keep writing about it, would devote a tenth as much time to the problem of millions of people not wearing masks at all, we would be much better off.
Well put William.
Ironic that in the Year of Covid, the biggest World Series story turns out to be JT joining the celebration after testing positive. It’s a topic that won’t go away any time soon and, unfortunately, it’s a virus that won’t go away any time soon.
I agree with STB. Well said William. Thank you.
Detroit signs AJ Hinch to be their manager. Multi-year contract.
For me, that’s like being sent to Siberia. Punishment has many shades of gray.
Really enjoyed reading your comments, William, and agree with them. Thank you for your intelligent thoughts.
If anybody should be investigated it should be mlb. The testing should have been completed prior to the game. Thanks to mlb incompetence he was out there for 7 innings. That should be the story. If mlb was so worried about it they should have gotten it right before the game. If we are really worried about safety mlb should have been all over this. Turner had to be thinking mlb put me in thi.s position and now they want to make me the story. Man Fred was embarrassing during the telecast and should take responsibility. If the reports are correct let’s fine mlb.
It’s a non story. Turner did what most anybody would have done. It is such hypocrisy to judge him. The talk should be about a great Dodger team and organization. Let mlb do what they will and you know it will be wrong.
Steve Cohen has been approved as new owner of the Mets.
Why should we care? Because he’s got lots and lots of money and is a huge baseball fan. I’m sure his first priority will be to put a winning product back on the field and not worry about profits.
Where we used to be concerned about competition from the Yanks on free agents, we’ll now have to add the Mets to that list. I imagine the Mets will be very active this winter.
So Realmudo and Bauer to the Mets?
Don’t forget Springer.
Mayor De Idiotso may try to slow-walk or queer the deal. He does not want Cohen and he has the power not to lease the stadium to Cohen.
They got it worked out. It was regarding a convict making deals for city property.
Steve Cohen
“2. Defining a “prohibited” person: Here’s where this becomes wacky. USA TODAY’S Bob Nightengale, who first reported that Cohen had to clear the de Blasio hurdle, wrote that the lease defines a prohibited person as “any person that has been convicted in a criminal proceeding for a felony or any crime involving moral turpitude.’’ Yes, Cohen’s hedge fund pleaded guilty and paid $1.8 billion in fines. But Cohen himself was never convicted. He doesn’t fit the criteria for a prohibited person.“
Cohen was never convicted. He’s in. I wonder if he might be interested in Lindor. Bet he is.
I think Turner should have been permitted to come onto the field as long as he wore a mask and had sanitized after being pulled out of the game. He should have stayed out of the scrum and let players come to him as they chose to do. He should have seated himself on the end of the group for the team picture and kept his mask on and then immediately moved away from the group.
Not to make light of Turner’s infraction but I would let the penalty be shaving his beard and trimming his hair and offering a home team discount.
All that and a body condom.
They were all tested daily and his was “inconclusive”. That should have been a signal to MLB and the Dodgers. If it isn’t a negative you shelter in place until we know.
“ Not to make light of Turner’s infraction but I would let the penalty be shaving his beard and trimming his hair and offering a home team discount.”
My ‘laugh til I cry’ emoji keeps disappearing
Leave it for some controversy to take some of the joy out of what they accomplished. He violated protocol. He will probably get fined. There is no need for MLB to INVESTIGATE anything. JT and his wife are still in Texas, the team is home. What if his test turns out to be a false positive and all his subsequent tests are negative? I also think that pulling him from the game in the 8th inning, and then isolating him when he has been around all of those guys for the entire time in the bubble is like closing the barn door after the livestock have run away. Makes little sense. Friedman defended him, and I admire him for protecting his player. I also think in the heat of the moment JT made a decision. In afterthought it was probably the wrong one. But I am not going to crucify the guy for wanting to share what probably is a once in a lifetime moment for him with his team mates. Now we sit back and see if anyone gets sick because of what happened. Where I live, things are much different than in major population centers. People here are wearing masks when they are in a public place, but pretty much no where else. I just wish for everyone to stay healthy. On top of all that stuff, Belli had an interview with Jimmy Kimmel on the telephone while he was driving home. Kimmel asked him if he was high because he looked like he was. Belli’s answer was rather cryptic, and it kind of surprised a lot of people. He said I am not high, that’s just how my face looks.
I’m joyful about the Dodgers and I’m certainly not letting Turner’s screw up take anything away from the Championship. It was just so unnecessary.
People around here are very mindful of social distancing and masks. My wife saw some crazy lady going off at Ralph’s about being forced to wear a mask but that’s the only one I’ve heard about. I just got back from the VA Hospital in Long Beach and everyone there is masked up. It’s a minority that have been convinced to believe otherwise but the numbers are still large enough to have an effect.
In case there was any confusion about my comments earlier, for months my wife and I were among the very few wearing masks in public in our city in the Netherlands. In many parts of Europe, people let their guard down during the summer, and now they are paying the price with a huge second wave. Mask wearing is one of the few precautions, along with hand washing and social distancing, that can make a difference to contain the spread of the virus. Now almost everyone here is wearing masks. Finally!
Now that we have established that, let’s get back to our celebration of the Dodgers achievement and our long-awaited championship.
Rays cut both Zunino and Morton loose. MLB is considering a tiered spring with AAA and MLB players reporting first, and the lower levels at a later date. A lot of players have not had their options picked up. All these trade scenario’s and what will the team do make little sense 3 days after the series ends. But even the networks and pundits are throwing thier 2 cents in on who is going to win next year. Hell, let me enjoy this one first.
I think we will see a good number of players non-tendered by the current teams making the 2020 free agent class one of the largest ever.
Having watched Zunino in Seattle, I was happy for him making it to the Series. He certainly had no chance of that in Seattle. He’s a nice catcher and handler of pitchers. He just can hit. Never could. Never will. Sorry to see him let go and I hope he can hook on with a club who can use him as a back-up catcher who can afford to not rely on him offensively. Yankees?
Voting is now open for the all-MLB team – had to leave some positions blank but I was able to vote for Ryu and Maeda
https://www.mlb.com/fans/all-mlb-team
Badger
* I to value strength up the middle and shortstop is the most important athletic position on the field. I love Lindor. He’s a special talent and seems like a team guy. I’ve watched him a ton at Spring Training and he makes “Ozzie-like” defensive plays and he switch hits. I see your interest in him becoming a Dodger.
* But a couple of things convoluted the deal. One is the obvious expense. He will be expensive at a time when many of our stars need to be signed and stay with the club in a volatile financial situation,
* Number 2 is what do you do with Seager? I suggested before that AK and Doc have a nice long chat with Seager soon and see how badly he wants to stay at short. Would he consider a move? If not, he stays at short and we move on with Rios at 3rd or explore a right handed power bat. I think Seager deserves that consideration. While he may not have the range and flash of Lindor, he makes all the routine plays smoothly and is a force offensively. It’s his position if he wants to stay there.
* If Cory is receptive to moving to 3rd (my pick over 1st where he’s wasted) than AF actively pursues Lindor or Semien. (I think Lindor, Tim Anderson and Marcus Semien are the 3 best in the game.)
* Is moving Seager and obtaining Lindor going to make us that much better than pursuing other needs like a power right hand bat, preferably at a corner?
* I would package up Lux, maybe K-Bear and other non pitching prospects except McKinstry and see what it would take. Lindor might be priced out but who knows. We thought Mookie was out of reach.
* If you want to spend the kind of $ necessary to acquire Lindor, why not keep Seager at short and pursue spending the $ on LeMahieu which solves the revolving door at 2nd?
BulldogsandPenguins – I agree that MLB handled JT’s game 6 deal badly. What’s new. Did I miss the news that JT’s test was indeed positive and others were infected? Are results in on others who were tested? He definitely violated protocol as he was advised at the time he was positive but did I miss “the rest of the story?”
Thanks Phil. It’s always good to read your input.
What do I do with Seager? Third base or first. I want to be clear that I really like Seager, I just think we can get a better shortstop. Lindor has put up 9.4 dWAR over the same period Seager has put up 2.0 dWAR. Lindor also has more oWAR and granted a lot of it because he’s got more games. And frankly that factors in for me. Is Seager over his injury issues? Who knows.
I could certainly live with any of the defensive wizards that are higher on the D metric scale than Corey. Semian is one, Anderson another, but he is going nowhere. There are other names on that list but those players aren’t available either. However Andrelton Simmons is, and though his offense has taken a hit, his defense is still stellar.
I agree that Lindor will be expensive and I have said more than once I don’t think it happens. But I believe Lindor is going somewhere, and if not LA, I just hope it isn’t anywhere close to LA.
I think Bill Russell and Cory make and don’t make the same plays. Russell was one of my favorite players and had no where else to play. Seager does.
Lindor always has that big smile and is always happy. I like the idea of Lindor and Betts in the club house together maybe more than I want Lindor at short. LIke you said, there are other shortstops and some are better defensively. Lindor adds excitement defensively and on the bases. There was a time when the only entertainment on a Dodger team was watching Isturis and Cora make great plays. Betts defense has been every bit as enjoyable as offense.
Could not have said it better. Lindor is easy to like. I’m sure there will be a lot of interest in him. With Betts just added, and a championship in hand, I doubt a player like Lindor will be added. But, like I said, if Friedman wants him, he can probably get him.
I wonder if all the players that opted out of this season will opt out again for next season, because in reality the circumstances are going to be very similar early next year, when ST starts?
What fine do you get for turning up drunk to award the World Series Trophy?
I honestly thought Manfred had a stutter issue when he was speaking. Now granted I’ve not really listened to him talk very much, but my first thought at the World Series trophy presentation was that “ahhh, he has that stuttering issue”.
And I have heard, I think from Joe Biden, who grew up with a stutter problem, that even though people can over come stuttering, it does return when they’re nervous, etc. And Manfred may have been nervous after being booed.
Opting out 2 years in a row starts to take a significant financial toll. 2 years without playing makes it difficult to come back.
I would guess we have less opt outs but predicting 3 – 4 months in the future right now is difficult at best.
He got really boosed up.
Here is what baffles me: At our company, we buy 25 RAPID COVID-19 tests for $450.00. https://medisonictech.com/
It is a blood test that pricks your finger and the results are available in 15 minutes. They are about 97% accurate and if you get a positive, you do two more tests. It’s a lot cheaper than sending an employee to get tested and having them sit at home until they get the test back – typically 36 to 48 hours.
Why is it that a company with 54 employees can do this and MLB cannot?
Manfred is a moron.
Here’s a photo of Manfred and Torre together:
Maybe they do Mark. Players were tested daily. They must use some kind of quick turnaround test.
They knew Turner’s test was not negative and protocols say if that’s the case they don’t circulate until it is conclusive. Somebody f’d this up. He should have never been on the field. But then, if that happens, can the game be played?
This whole thing is a black eye, but, black eyes heal.
They ship the kit to labs. They do not test on-site.
They have their own lab. Turnaround is said to be quick. Not quick enough obviously.
Mark, this may be the best post ever! Post of the Year anyway.
In a perfect world, Lindor would be my SS, but there is no way I would pay what the Indians would want for him. Maybe as a Free Agent in 2022, but I think I would still take Seager.
When was the last time the team with the best Shortstop in baseball won the World Series?
Baseball-Reference 162 Game Average for both players:
Lindor: .285 BA/.346 OB%/.488 SLG/.833 OPS/OPS+ 117/40 DBL/3TPL/106 Runs/86 RBI
Seager: .295 BA/.362 OB%/.500 SLG/.863 OPS/OPS+ 129/43 DBL/3 TPL.102 Runs/92 RBI
Lindor is a better defender. Lindor steals 21 bases a year (which will decline) Seager steals 3.
I am going to keep dancing with the guy who was the World Series MVP… even if he is not “THE BEST” SS in baseball!
Makes perfect sense.
But I still want what I want. Lindor is not just a great defensive shortstop. He’s a 30 home run 40 doubles 100 runs scored offensive threat and he’s available. If Friedman wants him he will get him.
Yankees when Jeter was there. Lets face it. In a lot of series it is the roll player who shines. In 88, of course Hershiser was the star, but the offensive star was Mickey Hatcher. Yet most of what he did in that series gets over looked. Big moments this season often came from the scrubs. Kike’s HR to tie game 5 and how about Smith’s 3 run jack against the Braves that put them in front? Brian Doyle killed the Dodgers in a series. Yet he was a terrible hitter by most accounts. Many stars just flame out in the big games. Look how bad Machado was against the Red Sox. This year, Seager was the better player. He may not be spectacular on defense, but with this team he did not have to be. They lost one series the entire season. And yet, they could have just as easily won all 3 of those games. None was a blow out. They were not shut out ALL YEAR including the playoffs. I like Seager. I do not know what kind of money he will seek in free agency, or if the Dodgers have any inclination to sign him long term. What happens next year will go a long way to determining what kind of salaries teams will be willing to pay. I would not want to be a free agent this winter. One, there are going to be a lot of really good players just let go because of financial concerns. Even the 10 million dollar a year guys are going to find it difficult to get that kind of money again. Today, guys like Kluber and Gardner became free agents. Their teams did not pick up their options. Two, the uncertainty of whether or not and if so, how many fans will be allowed back into the parks. Long before spring starts, they are going to have to figure out what the parameters are going to be. Until then, any speculation on who or when someone gets signed is just that. No one has any idea how this is going to work out. I will tell you this, if this country is still bottled up the way it is now come April. all bets are off as to if there will even be a 2021 season.
Not wanting to switch players and instead add Lindor and move Seager to third. Give Seager shortstop money.
Per Jon Heyman
“Not one team claimed Brad Hand for $10M. He was a top 3 finalist for AL reliever of the year with a 0.77 WHIP. and 16 saves. Time to revise free agent contract projections downward! (Hand is now a free agent after Indians then declined the $10M option and paid $1M buyout.)“
Damn, this sounds too good to be true!
I initially thought AF would snap him up if he made it all the way to the Dodgers, but if no one else is paying $10M, why should AF
Here is one for you that is closer to home. Who do they need to put on the roster and protect in the rule 5 draft? The Dodger site said deGeus, Carillo and Jackson are the most likely with Kendall, Kasowski, Reks, and Estevez on the bubble. I think they non tender Alexander, Floro might get an offer. None of them gets the QO.
deGeus, Carillo and Jackson are locks. Reks, Raley, and Beaty might be the same guy. I would Keep Estevez too and Floro.
Regarding the JT storyline… you always have to ask yourself a few things when any news reports come in.
~ What questions are being asked and just as important, what questions are Not being asked?
~ Who is leaking / feeding information to reporters and who benefits from this information being leaked?
~ Does it feel like one particular narrative is being pushed and framed in a certain way… while other narratives are being suppressed or hidden?
~ And if this is the case, then who benefits from that information being suppressed and framed in that particular way?
~ Who has the power and influence to push and frame certain narratives and storylines while suppressing other important information?
~ Are the reporters and news organizations that are reporting on this story hyper focusing on one particular storyline or are they being good, fair, and honest journalists by looking at all angles of the story and trying to get to the truth of the matter?
– –
Rob Manfred and MLB knew that they screwed up badly and needed to use all their resources (newspapers, journalists, mlb network, etc) to take the focus off their incompetence and ineptitude and move that focus over to something / someone else. JT did make it a little easier on them by coming back onto the field… but the fact that this narrative was pushed so hard and so quickly on Tuesday night, without talking to everyone involved on the Dodgers (and everyone in their bubble) and not putting the spotlight or at least equal time to questioning MLB, Rob Manfred, and the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Lab that was in charge of testing the players… really tells you everything you need to know.
– –
The main headline on Tuesday night should have been, the Dodgers win the world series after a 32 year drought, Kershaw’s redemption, etc. The next biggest headline (if there were any journalistic principles left) would be to focus on the incompetence and malpractice of Rob Manfred and MLB for allowing two baseball teams to even start game 6 without the test results from the previous day!!! How is this not a bigger story!!??
– –
How are we getting test results from MONDAY (A day off by the way) after Tuesday’s game starts??? How and why would a game as important as this be allowed to start without knowing these test results before the first pitch is thrown. And how can they magically rush the new results so quickly for Tuesday’s tests after finding a positive result from Monday’s batch. Wouldn’t you think the lab along with MLB would have / should have put a rush on getting Monday’s test results before game 6 started???
Well, as Ohlmeyer said, whatever the question, the answer is money.
The Dude: It’s like what Lenin said… you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh…
Donny: I am the walrus.
Do the Dodgers hope that Price opts out in 21? And sign a couple of high end relievers like Hand and a righty? I would think a lot of guys are going to sign 1 year deals in hopes that 22 will be better financially
I think the Dodgers will make a couple of moves by the weekend.
Bullpen Mark? I think a year of Hand for 10mil is a good deal. And let’s hope that Lux surprises us like Smith did this year. That would save a lot of capital for other areas. That’s been a key in the AF era. A lot of young talent balancing out the high end stars salaries
Smith may have surprised you, but I was not surprised at all. He was one of their better players last year. He just ran out of gas. I was there the night he hit his first MLB homer against the Phillies to win a game. I am not sure many pitchers will get a 10 mil deal this year. Too many intangibles. Too many unknowns. And Hand is going to want more than one year. Lux looked to me about as disengaged as any player I have seen this season. At least when spring 2.0 came along. He was late back to camp, his hitting and his fielding were equally uninspiring. He has the talent, now he needs the desire to take that job and run with it. No one else has for the last several years. They do not need any starters. I doubt seriously if Price would opt out of his deal. He does not want to go out after a year like this. The bullpen, and a RH hitting power hitter would seem to be the main needs. Resign Turner, and hope the NL keeps the DH so they can keep him fresh with a platoon with Rios. I do not think unless it is a bullpen piece that they will sign any major free agent other than Turner.
He ran out of gas? 50 some games, 200 or so plate appearances and he ran out of gas? That’s not a good sign.
Lux did appear disengaged, that’s true. He might have had a lot on his mind. In a year like this one I’m willing to put it in the rear view and go forward.
Everyone is going to want more money. That’s always going to be true. The market will level itself. One way or another, it always does.
Yep, he ran out of gas. He had never really been in that situation before. He most likely was alternating behind the plate, and remember he had limited time at AAA. So he was facing better pitching than he ever had. As it was, he might have not adjusted to what they started doing to him. You have to factor in his 62 games at AAA too Badger.
Cubs cut the cord with Lester. But they are picking up Rizzo’s option. Red Sox are talking to Cora, so there could be a reunion there. Seems to me cheating, or at least condoning it is going to pay off for those two. Lot of new free agents as teams continue to clean house.
Per a report on Twitter……Trevor Bauer is supposed to have a zoom meeting with the Dodgers tomorrow,,,what ever the hell that is,