Who the heck were those players wearing Dodger uniforms in the Rockies’ and D-backs’ series? Whoever they were, they certainly did not perform like a playoff caliber team. They struggled with pitching, struggled with hitting, and couldn’t play defense. My, my, my, that’s typically a recipe for baseball disaster!! Heaven forbid that team should have to play the mighty Padres in the playoffs. The Dodgers may as well go home now if that were to happen, as they would stand little, to no chance, for advancing past the vaunted Padres. Clearly the Padres have the better team! Don’t they? If I understood some of the comments last week, even though the Dodgers had, at the time, won 7 of the last 10 games they had played, even though they have the best record in baseball and have the greatest positive run differential of any team(apparently this statistic doesn’t mean much), they’re really not that good, or are classic under achievers. To some, the only reason they have any success is because they are playing inferior teams, they are lucky, and the opposition has routinely “given” the Dodgers their victories.
The Dodgers are winning ugly and they are losing ugly and, to that I say, so what? In baseball there are no points given for style. The ultimate, and only, arbiter is the final score. If, when the final out of the game is recorded, the Dodgers have more runs than the opposition, they win. Frankly, I could care less if the Dodgers didn’t look good in victory, they were “lucky” or, if the other team “gave” them the victory. To me that is absolutely meaningless. They won. Successful teams have a unique capacity to win ugly. Moreover, a teams’ performance today is not a guarantee that is how they are going to perform in the future.
In addition, if the Dodgers win the last game of the baseball playoffs, they win the World Series. End of story. Doesn’t matter to me if they look like the Keystone Cops getting there. It only matters that they get there, and that they win that last game. Do I believe they can do it this year? Yes, I do. Will the ball have to bounce their way at times? No doubt. With that said, do I have concerns about this team? Yes, I do. But then again, I don’t know that I have ever watched a single year of Dodger baseball when I didn’t have a concern or two about the team. This year is no different. Frankly, it would be nice if Muncy, Bellinger, Kike’ and Joc would remember how to hit consistently. I would also love to see the “minor league player of the year” version of Gavin Lux, instead of the imposter who is pretending to be him currently. However, despite their hitting woes, I’m here to tell you, should any of these players get a dramatic winning hit in the Series, all will be forgiven. The slumps will be but a distant memory. Moreover, I don’t care if each of their wins in the playoffs was an “ugly” win, as long as they win.
As to the pitching, I don’t know why, but every time Jansen comes into a game, he makes me nervous. Even though he makes me nervous, his statistics (prior to the game with the Astros) tell me he is doing well. I know, I know, for some of you he just doesn’t pass the eye test. Granted that may be true. But the Dodgers have Josh Bard and Steve Cilladi in the bullpen. Mark Prior and Connor McGuiness on the bench. Surely, one of these professionals can see if something is seriously amiss. The Astro game aside, if he saves 10 out of 10 games in the playoffs, I will love me some Kenley!!
I also fret over our starting pitching. Kershaw has recaptured some of his mojo but, as we all remind each other, over and over again, his legacy in the playoffs is spells certain doom and failure. Will he ever overcome that legacy? It’s possible. What about Buehler? Doggone it, he is supposed to be our ace and can’t seem to throw 5 innings. How long are we going to mess around with his blister? Then there is Julio Urias. At times he seems like the real deal, other times not so much. May and Gonsolin can look absolutely unhittable at times. But the question on many minds is, can the Dodgers rely on them, when they are so young?
The bullpen has looked good, that is, until they don’t. But isn’t that what bullpens do? One day it’s chicken the next day it’s feathers. Just ask Adam Ottavino, who has been one of the more reliable relievers for the Yankees, yet the other night he gave up 6 runs without recording an out. Move over Kenley, you have company. Ottavino has been philosophical about his slumps in the past, such as the one he had during the playoffs last year, “The good news is,” he said, “I can’t be this bad forever.” Sunday night the bullpen looked really good. Graterol was absolutely lights out, and Sborz, Gonzales, McGee, Wood, Floro, Ferguson and Jansen (it was a chicken day for him) were each very good.
It’s been 32 years since the last World Series championship for the Dodgers. That’s a long time ago. We’re all anxious for another downtown parade. While I’m not the man now that I was then and, admittedly, I sometimes struggle with my memory, I do, however, seem to recall that the Dodgers were not the best team in baseball in 1988. That distinction went to the A’s or the Mets. Not only did those teams have the best records, they had the best players on offense, defense and, arguably they had the best pitching, Outside of Kirk Gibson, the Dodgers did not have much going offensively that year. No player hit over .300, no player had more than 25 home runs, no player had more than 82 RBI. Only 3 regulars hit over .275. Only Gibson had an OPS over .800. An offensive juggernaut that team was not. They relied on their “Stuntmen” to come off the bench and provide key hits. Pitching was another story. They had the ability to pitch well, and did at the right time. Hershiser had an amazing year. Tim Leary and Tim Belcher were solid. The rest of the starters were just so-so. John Tudor was the big mid-season acquisition (he was the Mike Clevinger of the time), however, he hurt his arm, and was a non-factor in the playoffs. The bullpen, anchored by Jay Howell, Alejandro Pena, Jesse Orosco and the unheralded and under-appreciated (at least for that year) Brian Holton, was fairly strong and consistent. The Dodgers often won ugly that year, but at the end, they were the last team standing!
I initially wrote this article on Saturday afternoon, just before the game with the Astros was about to begin. I had planned to write a much longer article on why teams need to be able to win ugly and that slumps regularly happen in baseball. Unfortunately, the demands of my work schedule got away from me and I had to devote some much needed attention to making a living. By the time I finished the initial draft of the article, the game had started, and I followed the first couple of innings on Gameday. Julio Urias’ performance epitomized the up and down angst I can sometimes experience with this team. He gave up a run in the first and, in my opinion, threw a few too many pitches. This caused me to feel some frustration. An inning later, when I e-mailed the article to Jeff, the Dodgers hit a couple of homeruns in the bottom of the second, to turn the tide.
Because of the scheduling of the articles, I had the opportunity to slightly up date this article and, as we all now know, Urias pitched really well for the remainder of the game. It was a game, the Dodgers should have won, but they lost in a very ugly fashion. It was a total feather day for Jansen.
I revised this article slightly on Monday morning. Tonight, the Dodgers start their series with the Padres. Obviously, I’m hoping they win, and I give a rat’s rear end if they win ugly!!!!
I’ll leave you with a song by the Rolling Stones called “Winning Ugly” Not their best song by any means, but it is on point. Perhaps the Stones were trying to drive home my point by “singing ugly.”
I think we can all agree that tonight’s loss was ugly!! 6 good innings and one that was very ugly. Tomorrow is a new day.
TELL ROBERTS
TO STOP WHINING..NO PROBLEM WITH.198 MUNCY ACTING LIKE A TOUGH GUY
PUNK..
2d2, I’m assuming you wrote this article before we witnessed tonight’s game against SD. Yes?
Before the season started, there was no doubt in my mind that the Dodgers were ready to win the WS this year. I’ve never felt like that before. When the team announced who the starters would be, the first of some doubts crept in. Price chickened out. Wood was back and I was never a believer in him after his final season with the Dodgers. I couldn’t believe that AF signed him again! It was almost like signing Kazmir as it left me with the feeling of why? Then we had 3 non battle hardened starters in Urias, May, & Gonsolin. Stripling, I’ve never been big on. So, these were my only questions about whether they would go all the way.
Once I got a look at the games, I felt that indeed we still had a chance to go all the way. In fact, I still think we have a ‘chance’ to go all the way. After all, look at where we are at with the amount of games left to play. But the picture has changed significantly after the trading deadline. SD made huge strides in bulking up the team, especially the pitching. I liked them before but I would never have thought they would challenge our Dodgers like they are doing presently.
We are not currently looking very good. Our hitters are not delivering as we assumed they would. Some are, of course, but the 3 Power Posers are all in a major slump with no sign of emergence. This was something I never imagined happening especially at the same time! Plus, the injury to JT has hurt us more than meets the eye. Our rotation seems to be fraying at the seams, and our mercurial manager can’t seem to keep his hands in his pockets and not meddle so much with lineups and starters. Our BP is a bright spot, though. We had a great BP game the other night, perhaps we’ll see more of them.
So, currently, I’m not feeling so optimistic about our chances at present. Sure, we’ll get to the playoffs, but the weakness I see may not be reparable. As some poster here keeps telling us for the last 7 years that this is the year, he has been wrong every year and looks foolish, at this point. But, fans are foolish in their hope.
For me, all bets are off. I will continue to watch as a fan, but I must say I don’t feel the same way as I used to about the Dodgers. If they are tossed from the playoffs, you will be hearing from me loudly, pointing specific fingers(finger) at those who I hold responsible. Woe be to them! 🙂
I did write this before the game.
Very thought provoking article , 2D2, as usual, with or without a parody. I agree, wins are wins regardless if ugly or not. A blooper hit looks like a solid hit in the box score.
That said, the loss last night was disheartening to say the least. Clayton Kershaw pitched well for the time he was in the game. Defensive and mental lapses did not help let alone only 4 hits. Fans blaming Doc for his lineups and game decisions. They sometimes puzzle me too. Are we sure he is the one making them? Wondering?
Let us beat those Padres tonight.
I know I will ever understand Doc and the decisions he makes. I should just give up and say it is what it is. Two of your hottest hitters, Pollock and Smith sit. Peterson and Muncy play. Both not hitting their weight.
And bat 3rd and 4th
The last 10 we played don’t matter. It’s the last 10 we play that do.
We have 12 left, 6 more on the road, the last 6 at home. It doesn’t matter what the Padres do. The only thing that matters is what we do.
It’s pucker time.
At the end of last year, and Spring Training of this year, along with others I thought Lux would likely be ROY. To be honest I don’t recall ever hearing of Cronenworth. He’s 26, so, technically he’s in his prime. And who hits better his first year in the Majors than he did in 5 seasons in the minors? Well, he does. Also at the beginning of the year I thought Rios showed signs he was a legit Major League slugger. Turns out he has holes in his swing an adult badger could walk through. We all knew Tatis was going to be good, but better than Seager? Not just better, considerably better. And who knew the MVP and his 35 home run sidekick would be mostly absent from class? I won’t mention this defense again here.
The team, with all its warts, amazingly still has the best record in baseball. Imagine how good they will be when they all snap out of it.
In Cosmology they have a saying:
“Often in Error,
Never in Doubt”
I read some of comments in LADT and occasionally feel that the same applies to comments here.
When I first saw your posts (apparently after a long absence, I wondered who was this poster that went by the name of a “nasty” carnivore.
Since I am also often in error (but fortunately always in doubt)I withheld my judgement.
I just want to say, after seeing more of your input, I am quite impressed with both your knowledge and your opinions. Thank you.
PS The same applies the “Bear,’ but that took longer.
In Cosmology they have a saying:
“Often in Error,
Never in Doubt”
When I read some of the comments on LADT, I occasionally feel that the same applies to comments here.
When I first saw your posts (apparently after a long absence,) I wondered who was this poster that went by the name of a “nasty” carnivore.
Since I am also often in error (but fortunately always in doubt)I I withheld my judgement.
I just want to say, after seeing more of your input, I am quite impressed with both your knowledge and your opinions. Thank you.
PS The same applies to “Bear,’ but that took longer.
All I can say is,.”Ouch!” The question is, how will they respond? Will they use this as motivation to kick the Padres’ butts the next time or will they collapse in self-doubt? How much fight do they have in them? Are they afraid of losing, and therefore will play too cautiously, or will they take a stand and fight? The Padres have nothing to lose. No one expected them to win the division this year. The Dodgers have something to lose, because everyone expects them to win. They need to claim their territory. They need to make a statement that this division belongs to them.
In one year. We add Mookie Betts to a team that won 106 games. And in one year the Padres who lost 92 games last year are the better team right now! What the ………..! Mark you can quote all the stats you want but this team does not pass the smell test. We have a good record because we have played a lot of crappy teams with crappy pitching. And yet our entire left handed hitting lineup except for Seager has Mendozed the season. The mantra is that they will “get it together” by the post season. Well there we will face good pitching and we all saw what that will look like last night. For those of you who don’t think defense is important last night should cure you. We wasted a brilliant performance by Kersh. Muncy’s defense is atrocious wherever he plays. Lux is right there. Seager is below average. Joc is a turtle in left and Betts hasn’t been a gold glover this year. Our relief pitching which has been brilliant most of the year is now crashing back to earth just in time for the playoffs. Other than Kersh we don’t have a starting pitcher who can go more than five innings. NO chance of a WS championship once again this year. The Dodgers have created a regular season juggernaut by beating up on bad teams. Unfortunately that’s not who we play in the post season!
So what division is tougher in the NL? It certainly isn’t the Central. The Marlins are holding down 2nd place in the East. This weak schedule theory doesn’t hold water. The one year they lost there were 3 West teams in the playoffs.
They will be in the playoffs. The only question is will they be the 1 or the 4 seed. I do think that they are not the best team in the league at this point. They have the best record, but for how long? Even if they lose tonight, they will still be in first by 1/2 game. And the Padres and Giants will only make up the game they missed if it impacts the standings, +Confidence is a huge part of this game, and right now, the fans confidence is pretty low. Muncy does not look confident at the plate, or in the field. When Bellinger comes to the plate you can see the frustration on his face when he misses a pitch he used to crush. I also feel like 2D2, I do not care if they win ugly or the game is a gem. And what they did or did not do at the deadline is old news now. And it cannot be undone. As for Roberts, there are many pluses to his managing. Most of them have to do with how he deals with his players. But as a in game strategist, he leaves a lot to be desired. He also is a total company guy. He spouts the company line in every post game interview. He is a spin doctor. The performance in the game is on the players, that every poster on this blog knows. Putting the best player for the circumstance in the game is on the manager. He has a 50-50 chance of being right. Last night, Doc was on the wrong side of the equation. And Badger is right too. 12 games left. If they win all of them, it does not matter what SD does. If they lose half, that is on them. They control their own destiny.
Like ✔️
It is depressing, and of course there are more important things i the world to be worried about, but here we focus on the Dodgers. And as a long-time Dodgers fan, as all of you are, it is upsetting to contemplate that they may very well have allowed San Diego to become the best team in the division, if not the league, for not just this year, but going forward.
Yes, of course we cannot control what other franchises do, and SD has benefited from some good draft choices. But they then went out and spent all sorts of money, and this year added many players at the trade deadline, including a fine pitcher, a potential high-end reliever, and some additional bats. We added…nothing. We thought we did not have to, because we had the best record; but trading periods are to improve your club, and when other teams do, in this case, in a big way, and you do not, they gain relative to you. It’s all relative, you are not a franchise in a vacuum. I don’t think that the Dodgers strategize that way, though.
And in this case, it is worse, because if SD is better than we are, they will win our division in upcoming years, and we will be fighting for wild cards; and it is hard to win a title that way, and we do not show that kind of capacity to win three series starting on the road. We need to be the best team, win the division, have the best record, and then maybe Roberts can get us to the title. He’s certainly not going to manage his way past better clubs, not consistently.
And this could have been avoided, just by getting Clevinger. Because he is a good pitcher, and would have helped? Yes, and just as importantly, because then the Padres would not have him. You need to protect your divisional status, because otherwise it is wild card time at best. The Padres want very badly to win, and went big. The Dodgers never do. And yes, we did indeed land Betts, and that was great, and deserves praise. But that was aberrational for us, and we had opened up all that salary cap room. Now we are back to depending on our minor league system, and whatever we can pick up from the bargain bin. And against a franchise which may not even have stopped going big, we are in trouble. We were lucky because in the last five years or so, no team in our division was going anywhere, except for that one year when the Rockies were good, and we were fortunate to tie them at the end, and went on from there. In the face of competition which will spend more money, go after anyone they think will help them, our way of doing things, while effective in general, could leave us without a championship for another decade.
Now, I know that i write about this theme a great deal.. And I wouldn’t, if i didn’t think it was the meta-issue which has the most impact on why we do not win titles. It is the Guggenheim way, the ‘Stan Kasten way. Friedman may or may not have a lot to do with it, he was hired to implement it within constraints. Who was it who decided not to outbid SD for Clevinger, not to take a shot with Rosenthal at least? If you are the Dodgers, you do not let San Diego outbid you, unless they are giving up proven star players which you cannot match, which was not the case. We simply cannot let them be better than we are, not consistently, at least. And maybe they won’t be, but I would absolutely favor them to win more games than we do next year, in a full season.
Yes, I realize that we have a better record, and if we win the next two, or even one of them, we could still win the division. But they seem better, and would probably beat us in a seven-game series. Last night’s game was typical of the kind of games we lose in playoffs; we cannot hit good pitching, we get a small early lead; and then cannot do anything. Kershaw pitches well, but not quite well enough; we go to the bullpen, which fails us, and we play very poorly in the field, with a hard-trying player who somehow has to play multiple positions but is not adept at any of them, making mental and physical mistakes, And the opponent piles on runs. The only thing missing was the frenzied crowd cheering wildly against us.
Getting away from what I see as the overarching issue, that of ownership philosophy, risk aversiveness, and a certain degree of cheapness and rigidity, and just focusing on this one season, we obviously need Turner back and quickly getting into the form he was in before he tried to steal second base. We need Bellinger to somehow pick it up, but this seems unlikely. We need May to be able to pitch effectively. We need the bullpen, which Roberts has typically overtaxed, to return to the great form of early in the short season.
And of course we need to beat the teams we play in the playoffs, notably the Padres, since there are always two teams on the field, the Dodgers are not playing against themselves in some abstract realm. When the Cubs beat us pretty handily in the league championship series, most of us accepted that as, they were just better. Is that going to be the case with the Padres now? How many times in the last two decades have the Dodgers beaten a team in a playoff series which was actually stronger than we were? I do remember one fluke series against St Louis where we swept them; an outfielder dropped the last out which was hit right to him, things like that. That was so memorable, because we usually never beat a better team in the playoffs, we are not managed well enough for that. It is hard to win a title in baseball, but some team does every year; some, like the Giants, Cardinals, Red Sox, Yankees, have won multiple titles in the last twenty years. Somehow they have managed to get there, and I think that ownership and front office philosophy, has had a lot to do with that, unless we want to see it all as just a game of chance, where the roulette ball just doesn’t fall in our slot.
This is well written William, but what would AF had to do to guarantee that the Dodgers would have acquired Clevinger? Do we know with any degree of certainty that AF did not go all out in his efforts to trade for Clevinger, Lynn? or Bauer? As much as I would like AF to acquire a team of all-stars, we just don’t know what the front office tried to do, nor will we ever know.
2demeter2, you are certainly right that we do not know what the Dodgers offered, and we never will. It’s just self-protective of any organization to not put out such information, to avoid criticism. And even if we did know, opinions might differ as to whether we offered enough, or too little. I do realize that. And I don’t know as much about our minor league talent as you and some others here do, to make such assessments. But I would think that the Dodgers could have offered more than they did, without tapping the major league roster. Or they could perhaps have added a roster player. And would Stripling, whom we basically gave away to Toronto, have helped us consummate a Clevinger trade, had we kept him?
People here have noted that the players that SD gave up, while legitimate prospects, were not essential for them, they were not their top minor league talent. Could we not simply have raised our offer, even if we had to give up a good prospect or two, in order to both add a fine pitcher, and keep him away from what was even before this trade, our strongest division rival? I would love to know what we offered, and what players we simply refused to add in a package, and if keeping such players was so essential that we may have let SD pass us this year and the next few, just to keep those players?
My thought would be that we have a certain mindset among our owners, and probably shared by the GM, that we simply will not give up a very high-end prospect. Has this group ever done that? I think that this is a mistake, because as some smart baseball man, maybe Theo Epstein, has said, prospects are just prospects. The Cubs gave up maybe the top prospect in baseball, Gleiber Torres, just to get Aroldis Chapman. Maybe that was a mistake, but Chapman certainly helped the Cubs win the title, even though he almost lost it in the last game. But we don’t have any prospects in the Torres category, so how wonderful is it going to be that we have this one or that one coming up in two or three years, to hit .260, or win ten games, while we may be still searching for a title? Protecting the prospects is what the Dodgers sell as a smart strategy; and it may be, but at some point you have to go all out, and give up some future talent to bring in some proven talent now, who can win you some titles. And yes, it will cost somewhat more in payroll, but if other teams do it, you have to, as well, because to win a title, you have to beat out all the teams, not just most of them. And as I have suggested before, all it takes is one franchise to outbid you for each key player, even if it is a different franchise each year. I think that the Dodgers are so committed to their financials, that they will find reasons not to do the thing which would cement a title, and maybe make them the best team in baseball for a few years in a row. And I think that the fans deserve that they take more risks in that way, even while not breaking the bank, so to speak.
Justin Turner activated off of the IL, and Sborz sent to the alternate site. At least they did it early in the day so we did not have to wait for the news. Don’t look now, but the White Sox are only 2 games behind for the best overall record. They are the second hottest team in the majors right now with a 5 game win streak and 9 of 10. Padres on 8 game streak also 9 of 10.
I hope last night was a wake up call. They watched some Ahole show up a Hall of Fame pitcher and not respond one bit. Time to stop reading their press clippings and perform. Bellinger, Muncy, Pederson. Two of them need to start showing up.
I’m not ready to give up on the team but I do understand the concerns of those who are.
Solid post William. You are always clear and concise, and I respect how you present your argument. My only question is regarding the idea we can’t let San Diego outbid us. I believe it’s a closed bid. We were in on it with an offer AF thought was competitive. We were after all the best team in the league at the time. San Diego was then and is now chasing us. They needed more than we did. A lot more. And, perhaps they got it. But I don’t think it matters who we play in the playoffs, will be favored, as we should be.
I keep waiting for Bellinger and Muncy to snap out of their slumps, but lately a couple of analysts, Smolz and ARod I believe, confirmed my doubts. Neither of these guys are showing me signs they are ready at any moment to go deep, and those analysts doubt they get it going this late. These players are clearly running out of time.
I think we are still the best team in the league but that means very little in the playoffs, especially this year.
Next pitch. Until the last out is recorded, always, next pitch.
Thanks for the comment, Badger. That closed bid concept is surprising; I would have thought that a team would want to do negotiating, play off one team’s offer against the other. If it were only money, then I could see that, but this is an unusual way to do a trade for players.
Honestly I don’t know that to be the case. I’m assuming a lot here. From reports I’ve read GMs will call each other and say “you need to do better” and make an “ask” but I don’t believe they reveal another team’s offer. If I’m wrong about that I will stand corrected.
That is the crux of it!
Some of us Ole Timers remember the 1951 quote “The Giants is dead” by Dodger manager Charlie Dressen. At the time in early August, the Giants trailed the Dodgers by 12 1/2 games. Bobby Thompson ended the Dodgers season with “the shot heard round the world”. This year won’t be decided until all the games are played. As Dodger fan of 70 years I have heard “wait til next year” enough. There is still time to win it all this year!
Baseball and the Dodgers particularly are for the folks on this blog, a diversion from everyday life. And for some, they are a passion. They revel in the wins and agonize over every loss. Very few are on the fence about the team. They either believe, or do not. And sometimes they blame the easiest target for the teams woes. The manager. I am guilty of this a lot, because even though the play on the field is squarely on the players, I believe, and always have, that his in game decisions affect the game always. As I stated earlier he has a 50-50 chance of making the right decision. Most of us would take those odds. I can go back over Dodger history and remember many times I wondered what was he thinking? It is always easier to second guess. In 51 in the playoffs against the Giants, with Newk obviously running out of gas, Dressen went to Ralph Branca to face Bobby Thompson, even though Thompson had homered off of Branca in his game 1 start. Bad Juju. And a head scratcher since he had other relievers available including Clyde King who had 7 saves. Labine was used as the game 2 starter. Alston made some head turners too. And to my generation, Tommy electing to pitch to Jack Clark bordered on lunacy. So, we rant and rave, jump up and down and bemoan our misfortune at being fans of a franchise that has frustrated us, teased us, and let us down for the last 30 plus years. All will be forgiven on the glorious day they finally win the last game of the year. Will 2020 be that year? Only time will tell. All we can do is hold on tight and enjoy the ride……we hope.
The “ride” got a little off route yesterday, but let us hope it is back on track tonight. I think it will.
It were a bit bumpy, but it sure was not Kersh’s fault.
One encouraging thing from last night is that I thought Kersh had his best stuff Ive seen from him in a while. His slider was nasty and his fastball was 93 and a couple of 94’s. He deserved better. But that gives me some hope for the playoffs. Now Buehler needs to step up. But offensively we are scary bad right now especially from the left side and Im not too confident any of those guys are going to figure it out!
Doc, my 2 cents, play today’s best 8 guys. Not last year’s best or next year’s best, tonight’s best. No crazy experiments or shenanigans, just put the 8 top producers out. Is that too much to ask, or am I missing something ? We all know who needs a rest, and it’s not the guys who have been productive.
Well, it’s game on with the Padres and I love it. For the first time in a long time the Dodgers are not running away with the Division and they are going to have to play their way in, down the stretch. Hopefully no more roster and line up experiments. No more “try-out camp”. It’s GO TIME. Put your best guys in the best spots every day and let’s see what we got. No rest days the next 12 games. Cal Ripken played 2632 games in a row. Our guys can play 12.
I hate the Padres. I hate the way they play. So was Trent Grisham’s celebration just the refreshing new way to play the game and have fun? Was he just happy and excited? Or did he cross the line by showing up his opponent, especially a HOF’er? The line between expressing your personality and having fun versus rubbing your opponents nose in it has never been more blurred.
I have my thoughts but I’m not going there. That’s exactly what the Padres want to do to the Dodgers. Provoke. Poke the Bear.
* Doc looked really, really pissed at Grisham. Will see if there’s retaliation. I would love to see that but I hope we don’t go there now. There will be a time for that down the road. Now it just adds fuel to the Padres.
Some thoughts on last night:
* Mark is absolutely right when he states that it’s up to the players to perform. That’s where we are right now. The players need to step it up. It’s up to the Manager to put guys in the best spots for them to succeed. It could be debated whether Doc did that last night, with the line up and putting Baez in, but I’m not going there. I will say that the 6 – 9 batters went 0 for 12. First time ever in the 3 hole, Joc 0 for 4. The batting averages 3 – 9 were 178, .198, .279, .215, .188, .162 and .257. This from the best team in baseball.
* I’m all ready hearing the “it’s okay if we come in 4th” concessions. Not from me. Let’s compete!
* Orel and Joe think Belli has moved off the plate a little. Now about 5 more inches and we have something.
* The Padre’s Nola does have the coolest chest protector I’ve seen. The color scheme and pattern looks like a target for the pitcher. Depending on the pitch shape it could be the end or the start target for the pitch. I like it.
I have no problem with the Padres. San Diego is cool place, and other than the folks at MCRD, the people of San Diego are very nice. I like what the Padres have done baseball wise, but they are I believe one of those franchises that has windows of opportunity. This won’t last for them. You won’t see 7 years of titles out of this group.
I agree with “let’s compete”. We didn’t look or play the part last night. And until Bellinger and Muncy get their heads out of their asses we will have nights like that. All or nothing looks horrible when it’s the latter. And the defense is about hustle and desire. These guys don’t back up bases, aren’t accurate with throws, and frankly just give away too many bases.
Next pitch.
Until we aren’t, we are still in first. Let’s go out and compete like a first place team.
Last night put peterson batting 3rd ave 150 puts Muncy 4th under 200. Sits The two hot hitters Smth and Pollack .Brings baez in whose’s never been good. Keeps jansen in for 5 straight hits . I know about the 3 hitter rule. No one warming up. Puts people on defense where they don’t belong. I know jt is out. But gentleman could you image if we didn’t have talent. Doc is the the problem. Can’t handle game situations. We don’t bunt we don’t hit and runs, we don’t hit the other way with the shift one. He will never take us to the WS. Utley get ready, PLEASE!
I would like Gonsolin to plant one in Grishom’s butt the first time comes up. Show the Pads we’re serious.
Then I would like Muncy or Joc to crush one and take 5 min rounding the bases.
Most importantly, I would like a win. And I’d like Gonsolin to show that he deserves a game 3 start.
That’s really all I would like for today ( I wouldn’t mind a Clipper win so we can have LA/LA, but if Denver wins I think the Lakers have the easy path to a title)
I can stand winning ugly.
I cannot stand Losing Uglier!
Max Muncy has had plenty of bat flips and I have no problem with what Grisham did. He was talking to his dugout – it’s the Dodgers who got chirpy. If they don’t like it – get riled up. The Padres did and treated the Dodgers like a bunch of little B________s. They are having fun. I have no problem with that. I have a problem with the way the Dodgers played last night – JT & Mookie need to have a “closed-door” meeting with the players only and lay it all out! Play ball and that’s it!
I have no problem with what Doc did last night… and unless you think Clayton has no history of problems in the 7th inning, then you should understand too. The players did not execute, but Baez had been pretty good (up until last night) with RISP. He would have gotten out of the jam last night if not for Muncy and Taylor.
The leash is getting shorter, but I would roll out this lineup against the RHP tonight:
1. Betts RF
2. Seager SS
3. Turner DH
4. Bellinger CF
5. Smith C
6. Muncy 1B
7. Pederson LF
8. Rios 3B
9. Lux 2B
There are going to have to be some hard choice made… soon!
Muncy, Pederson, Rios, Lux. That could be 15 of the 27 outs.
Any predictions?
3 for 11 with 2 BB’s and 2 many Ks.
We are of course favored again. Oh, how the money likes us. 8.5 O/U. I got the Dodgers 6-4.
My lineup:
Betts RF
Seager SS
Smith C
Turner DH
Bellinger CF
Taylor 2B
Pollock LF
Muncy 1B
Rios 3B
I picked Rios in the last spot because I would like to keep Turner off the field as much as possible as DH. Otherwise I’d go with Pederson in the last spot if I wasn’t trying to protect Turner.
Truthfully there are only 6 guys that deserve playoff spots and they are Betts, Seager, Smith, Turner, Taylor, Pollock. Add Bellinger and Muncy then the last spot take your pick.
Bring back tommy, he had great instincts for the game. Today he would be better than Roberts.
Tom Niedenfuer and Jack Clark, among others, would beg to differ. Tommy would be different than Doc, but he would not be better.
Tommy is barely comatose.
It will be interesting to see what Bellinger, Munch, Pederson, Rios and Lux do tonight. Hopefully produce.
Like a full bag of vegetables, they will produce.
Ok, I need to work on that one.
It’s hard to BEET veggies.
LETTUCE eat every veggie we can until we are PLUM full and have to take a PEA!
TURNIP in front of your TV tonight and pull down the NIGHTSHADES.
PEPPER that ball all over the field and hit a PEAR of HR’s.
Disclaimer: Apologies to Brussel sprouts, potatoes, tomatoes, spinach, cabbage, cauliflower, and kale.
When the team wins, the players are great. When they lose, the manager is an idiot!
Can I quote you on that?
That’s what THEY say!
Last night was disappointing but not surprising,Pederson,Muncy,Rios,Bellinger and Lux, all not hitting and all in this game.Let’s hope May pitches his best game of the season tonight. Let’s see what happens.
Afternoon guys – obviously a disappointing run of form.
Now, I have been a critic of Doc’s in game management, especially his handling of the Bullpen.
However, I think he finds himself in a very difficult spot right now.
He knows, like me, and most realistic fans, that we cannot win a WS Without Belinger, Muncy, Joc and Kenley contributing significantly.
At this point of the season, what choice does he have other than to give those guys as many opportunities as possible to try and find some form.
The way the team is built, there is no plan B, so we need the Sluggers to Slug, and Kenley to step up. We won’t win without those guys performing.
In a regular season he would have more options and time available to him, but he needs these guys to hit now.
That is why he is throwing them out there. He is a good man manager. He is showing that he has faith in them. He is hoping they will come round, and giving them every chance to do so.
Winner, Winner – Chicken Dinner!
Bloody Brits have it all figured out!
You are EXACTLY right – Doc has no other choice!
This conversation is over. Watford just said it all.
Nothing else to see here folks… Move Along!
So, you are in favor of Brexit?
Move along? Are you telling us all to get lost?
Not gonna do it.
At what point does a bad slump become a bad season? We’re at just about 50 games here and Cody and Max have been bad pretty much the entire time. Can we expect them to turn it on whenever they want to or suddenly find the key to hitting successfully this year? Maybe that just isn’t going to happen in 2020.
Is it possible that the isolation these guys are going through in their off-field hours is affecting some players a lot more than others, just from a psychological point of view. We have Bellinger, Muncy and Joc all hitting well below their normal production. But we aren’t the only ones. Others having a pretty miserable 2020 include Yelich, Rizzo, Altuve, JD Martinez, Javy Baez and others who are normally considered very good hitters. Maybe Covid-related stuff is even more pervasive than we thought.
Could one of you hitting/coaching experts (Badger, Phil, whomever wants to opine on this) explain to me why, if Cody’s batting approach is so incredibly screwed up, he’s only striking out about 17% of his plate appearances. Mike Trout is at about 23%. Does this indicate he’s just barely missing the barrel most of the time? Has anyone thought about maybe giving him an eye test? Maybe he’s not seeing the ball correctly. Maybe RVS should step aside temporarily and we should hire an optometrist.
Eye tests are routine in MLB!
Yeah, STB. I always think of that when a guy is swinging right through pitches. I’ve suggested that with kids and parents and vision was the problem. But as Mark says, I’m sure they have checked his vision closely. As I’ve suggested before if his head and eyes didn’t travel so much to start the swing he might see the ball better.
Jefe, it’s all right here:
https://www.fangraphs.com/players/cody-bellinger/15998/stats?position=1B/OF
His line drive percentage is down, his HardHit% is down 13%. Pitches he was driving last year he’s fouling off back and to the left. He’s late. As I have said many times, if this were happening to me, I would either choke up are grab a lighter bat. Maybe that’s just too damm simple.
Thanks guys. OK, he’s late to the ball. That makes good sense.
But, come on Badger, choke up? lighter bat? He’d lose his man card.
You grab the heaviest bat in the rack, you wind up and swing, and if you’re a few seconds late to the pitch? Heck there’s always gonna be another pitch. Isn’t that the way you always taught it?
Banks used a light bat, and it did not take away his man card at all. No one used one heavier than the Babe. 44 ounces.
I completely agree, philjones, that it’s not OK to be the 4th seed. That probably means the starters aren’t going more than 5 innings, the bullpen has become inconsistent from overuse, and Bellinger and Muncy haven’t found a way to become successful major league hitters. It would be a damn shame. To have all that talent and depth and not to win the division would be so disappointing. The Padres aren’t more talented or have a better team than the Dodgers. At this time, the some Padres players are performing to expectations and many players are exceeding their past stats. Who on the Dodgers is doing that? It’s the other way around for the Dodgers. If it wasn’t for Mookie in the lineup it there would be even more ugliness.
Were the trades for Clevenger and Rosenthal by the Dodgers even attempted? I haven’t read anywhere that we had made offers. Was it assumed that we made an attempt to acquire these players. But, did we? I initially didn’t think we needed to trade for any additional pitching or hitting. But, closer to the deadline my feeling was “it’s been 30+ years since we won a WS. Just go for it and don’t worry about the next year or two.” Realistically, how many of our top 30 prospects are going to play for the Dodgers? I would guess, maybe, 6-8 over the next several seasons. So, we should trade some now to help win a WS (like Chicago did). It’s not like we are going to stop developing players, drafting players, and signing free agents. It’s nice to have all these great prospects, but where are they all going to play for Dodgers? I even thought why not trade for Whit Merrifield to finally plug the never ending hole at second base. Include Lux and other prospects for 3-5 years of All Star caliber play at 2B. Get Clevenger. Get Rosenthal. And, get more pitching. Some might say, but what are we going to do with all these players next year? I say what about this year. Next year will take care of itself. Heck trade away any surplus for prospects!
I just have another bad feeling about this year’s postseason just like I had last year. And, I so want to be wrong.
Can Merrifield pitch?
Nope. But, he can hit and field his position at 2B and OF. So, there’s that.
Who took the Dodgers to 2
WS champhionships with no 0ne over .300 and 5 WS . How many Jack clark monents has Roberts had?????
uh… how many years did Lasorda manage?
Lasorda went to 4 World Series, not 5. His teams went in 77-78-81 and 88. Alston took the team to 7 World Series and won 4 of them, 55, 59, 63, 65. His last World Series team was 74. That was not a Lasorda team. He was a coach and did not take over until the last 2 games of the 1976 season. 77 was his first year as manager. Lasorda won division championships in 83 and 85, but they did not go to the series. Seems they got beat in the playoffs. And no Dodger manager has ever taken the team to 3 World Series in a row. Yeah, Tommy won in 88 with superior pitching and a opportunistic offense.
Look, that wise old sage Watford summed it up:
we cannot win a WS Without Bellinger, Muncy, Joc, and Kenley contributing significantly.”
I am at peace with that…
But if they don’t win the WS, I will be driving the “Fire Doc Bandwagon.”
Why do you get to drive?
I thought we were supposed to get out of here?
I’m letting the air out of the tires on your bandwagon. Wait, do bandwagons have tires?
Roberts will not be fired.
This is my take:
In this year of Covid, social and political unrest, apocalyptic like fires out west, and a 60 game empty stadiums season…. this baseball season doesn’t count Unless of course we win. If we win then we will all celebrate the Dodgers hard earned victory under such trying circumstances.
And don’t forget the virtual parade when we win.
Can a million people get on to Zoom at the same time for the same event?
My zoom done left the building so I have no answer to that. But I say go for a parade just require masks.
I’d like to comment further on that idea but upon advice from counsel I’ll refrain.
40 years ago today, Fernando made his MLB debut.
Wow.
Yep, remember it well. As to your earlier comment about hitting Grisham in the touche, umps have a long memory, and what happened last night will be fresh in their minds. Anyone plunks anyone, they are as good as gone.
Absolutely Bear. I suspect each team may be warned before the game. It would be a poor idea to ignite that bomb right now. A pitcher kicked out and maybe suspended would be a very serious screw up right now. It will wait. Baseball players have a long memory. There will be a time down the road. Don’t fall in to their BS. Just shut up, play the game and get a win. That’s the smart play.
Score early and often and take them out of the game. Put them back on their heels, and that will take a lot of steam out of them.
Score early and often. Good strategy.
I’d also add stop giving away bases. That leads to unearned runs.
Don’t think Roberts will get 20 yrs. Just trying to make point that Roberts is not a good game mgr. He like 3 run hrs Instead of manufacturing run.
Say if a guy bats 500 times hits 30 hrs. 470 times he didn’t.
I will be sitting next to you on the bandwagon.lol
Yea because it’s all Doc’s fault that the entire Dodger lefty lineup outside of Seager is at the Mendoza line!
Finally Cassidy, you get it!
A good manager would manage to get a hypnotherapist to straighten these guys out.
“Watch the watch. You WILL hit nothing but line drives.”
This game is easy.
The first round will be played at Dodger Stadium, so they will have a home field sort of. They hope to let some fans into the game for the world series. There are no off days between games in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. That is huge.
I think Doc listened to Eric today:
Mookie
Seager
JT (DH)
Smith
Belly (1b)
CT3 (2b)
Pollock (CF)
Joc (LF)
Rios (3b)
Gonsolin
Holy cow.
Turner 3 Smith 4 flipped the other way, that’s fine with me. Pederson instead of Muncy 8th that’s fine with me. Wow did Doc read my post. I’m not a Doc fan but I’ll give credit where credit is due. Good job with the line up Doc if you are reading.
Eric had Muncy instead of Pederson. A good lineup would have neither Muncy or Pederson in it and Betts hitting twice.
Can you do that?
Who’s going to know?
I don’t know Badger. Somebody’s keen eye for detail might pick up on this. I don’t think Mookie and Joc look that much alike. Or play much alike either.
Gonsolin hit over .300 in college. We let him hit for Pederson.
Probably AF listened to Eric. Regardless, good job Eric. But beware Eric, you are subject to criticism if we lose. Lol. Good luck.
Smith has did it the old fashioned way. He earned it!
Wasn’t Eric’s line up
Eric
September 15, 2020 at 3:56 pm
My lineup:
Betts RF
Seager SS
Smith C
Turner DH
Bellinger CF
Taylor 2B
Pollock LF
Muncy 1B
Rios 3B
That’s a line up I like with some tweaks. JT has hit in the 3 hole all year behind Mookie and Seager. Why change that?
I’d move Pollock up and Bellinger down. I’m not a Rios fan but somebody has to play
As for Joc, I say he’s lost his job and NO MORE platooning in left field. Put Pollock there until further notice and let him play. I can find no stats that gets Joc in the game other than to pinch hitting against a righty.
Joc’s line – hitting .179 vs righties with a .657 OPS (he has 6 AB’s against lefties so that’s moot)
Pollock’s line vs righties is .253 with .813 OPS (.310 and .954 OPS vs lefties)
That plus the eye test tells me Pollock is your everyday guy.
Why does Doc insist of forcing Joc into a lineup? Are there compromising photos out there or something?
Kike or CT3 everyday at 2nd base. I pick CT3>
The Lux experiment didn’t work. Another sub par pinch hitter now. Better luck at spring training.
Baez isn’t better than the lefty relievers.
Closer by committee based on match ups. KJ no longer in that role.
For me the playoffs start right now. Let’s see how Doc handles this and if he’s capable of putting the right guys in the right spots. And we’ll see if we can compete.
I can’ wait to know the answer.
philjones
Yep that was my lineup. I prefer Smith 3 and Turner 4, but the other way is fine with me. I love Smith’s plate discipline and that .432 OBP is best on the Dodger team, not to mention that 1.050 OPS is best too. I’m high on Smith, have been since 2018 in AA ball.
I hear you about Joc and I’m not happy with Joc, but I consider Joc and Muncy basically the same, you get a home run or a walk or a strike out from both of them. Actually you get that with Rios too.
I don’t want Hernandez, Lux or Barnes taking any at bats at this point, so that leaves 10 guys to fill 9 spots, so 2 of the 3 names in the paragraph above need to play unless your preference is Hernandez and Lux.
No offense to Lux, different guys are ready at different times in their career. I like Lux, but in my opinion it’s not his time YET.
I get the Lux thing. I’d still like to give him some opportunities. Who knows, he could put some ab’s together.
Yep I hear you. If we had the division won already then I would still give Lux at bats. I want the division winning streak to keep going.
I get that too. But I think an at bat every nite could be arranged. He needs the looks.
Sorry bear my bad. 74 was alston’s team. Lasorda won ws in 81 too.
.
We all know 81 and 88 were his WS winners. The 81 team won in 6 games, and the 88 squad in 5, They lost the first two in NY in 81, then won 4 straight. Tri MVP’s were Yeager, Cey, and Guerrero. I sang the anthem at Dodger Stadium in Sept of 81. Strike year.
Badger, can they do that, have a guy hit twice ? How about Seager going twice, maybe once for Joc. And maybe Smith taking Rios AB and Gondolin having an AB in Belli’s spot. I mean check with Eric first, but if ok, I like it.
Bobo:
It’s so easy.
Just change uniforms.
And I hope Belli, Joc and Rios all prove me stupid, a hit from each of them would do it.
We all hope for that Bobo.
Wait, that didn’t come out right.
We need to put back the team on fire
Joc. You swing and miss 3 straight change ups?
Where I come from we were told NEVER throw the same pitch 3 times in a row. It’s probably still true, unless of course you’re throwing them to Joc.
Joc in a season long slump
Awful performance by joc
And a base running mistake.
Pros don’t know how to slide all that well.
To the pitts with ye!
These pads know how to play baseball.
Ok then, if Joc manages to get a hit, I’m stupid. Go Joc Go.
Hope that makes you happy Badger.
1 hit from Joc won’t make me happy – unless it’s a 3 run homer.
Joc up twice and has made 3 outs. If we DH’d Gonsolin for him, Tony bunts in that situation and we have a runner in scoring position with Rios up. Outside the box with that one. And yes, I’m joking. But…
Let Gonsolin pitch, Doc!
One more inning for Gansolin
Tony Gonsolin looks fantastic. What a boost for us
Good move, Doc, for subbing Hernandez.
One more inning for Gansolin, please
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again Gonsolin is underrated. I’m not only high on Smith but also Gonsolin.
Let the kid keep going.
I love the lament for Clevinger.
He’d be what the 3rd starter for the Dodgers?
At BEST, moderately better than the existing 3rd starters?
That’s an opportunity missed? I think not.
Ryu and Maeda are pitching well, why not grieve over their moving on?
Denver winning 93-80 with 3 minutes left in the game!
Doc pulls Gonsolin. Of course, how could he not.
Bluto, I am probably the only one on this board who has lamented not signing Ryu.
No, you are not, Jeff, sorry. I was very sad to see him not stay with the Dodgers. I check his stats whenever he pitches for the BlueJays.
Clippers finished, lose to Denver. Eliminated.
Ferguson injures himself. Why does Doc make these decisions? Nothing seems to go right when he interferes. Gonsolin, 90 pitches after 7 IP, with a lot of gas left in his tank. Push him you coward!
Well that sucks. AC and I were Ferguson’s biggest supporters last year when he was struggling. That looked serious.
No, Jensen..chan, chan, chan
Official. Price will not opt in before the deadline. When Rios hits them, they stay hit. He needs to hit them more often. He still K’s too much. Clippers lose to the Nuggets, 104-89. Led series 3-1, lose 3 in a row and have never been to the Division finals.
Are we a championship team.
Doesn’t look like it now.
Here we go again with Jansen.
Can’t take many more like that. My heart is weak! But at least he bore down and got the last 2 hitters. Save # 11.
We dodged that one. I know there wasn’t many runs scored but there was a rare 0 for 4 for Seager that didn’t help. I like the first seven hitters in those spots in the lineup. Turner and Smith can go either way three and four and then Taylor and Pollock can go either way six and seven. Then the last two spots basically take your pick I’d prefer Muncy and Rios because Doc will pinch-hit for Joc with Hernandez if the other manager brings in a lefty.
That would be a pretty win!!
All you hindsight prognosticators and Jansen haters, did you know that would happen?
No, but I did know, or at least felt he would not have a clean inning.
Did we know he would load the bases?
Jansen haters? I doubt anyone here hates Jansen.
Good win.
Jansen did load the bases but Pollock misplayed that fly ball. That should have been an out.
U r right.
phew
EXACTLY.
Scary moments. Gonzo gets the win! JT, the hero.
Well played game. Nice to have JT back. Nicely done Catman.
If the supporters of Roberts want another example of poor coaching decisions, he should not leave Pollock in CF instead of put Bellinger there with a 3-1 lead in the ninth . Almost cost them the game tonight.
Seriously? Roberts isn’t a psychic? He should have known AJ would misplay that ball!
Unfortunately Muncy’ s defense and need for a day off put Belli at 1st. As did JT’s DHing. Rios had to play 3rd then. I was more surprised Kike wasn’t in CF and Pollock in LF.
~
Kudos to Goose. I would have let him pitch the 8th.
Pollack was playing deep for a reason and positioned there.
A ball hit over his had if he was positioned shallower would of been worse. It’s a bit of a nitpick to blame Doc for not making that switch.
Who’s on first ?
Good point. I had to listen to the San Diego broadcast on the radio. It was like punishment listening to those guys.
He did step back initially though
I predict a Dodger rout tomorrow. Go dodgers.
Very important win. Gonsolin was great. The loss of Ferguson is a big problem, though. Jansen may well not have pitched tonight had Ferguson finished the 8th inning. A gutty effort to get the two last outs, but I would not feel confident about having him close the rest of the year, and we may have to now.
Never mind. We’re winning the WS again!