Maybe I See It Differently…

This article has 63 Comments

1. What I see in Hill is a pitcher who will be a roller coaster ride for the next three seasons. And I hate roller coasters.

2. I am more concerned about a pathetic offense with no apparent fix.

3. Yeah Mark, I saw a pitcher who is unhittable when he throws strikes. The pitch moves so much even the umpires have a hard time getting it right. I can see why FAZ signed him, now he just needs to get it together.
   .
   Following is an article on a topic previously debated here. Ian Happ/Javier Baez for a pitcher trade.
   .
   http://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/44315/is-it-time-for-the-cubs-to-put-javier-baez-on-the-trade-block

   1. Good article. Thanks.

   2. I wanted to trade for Baez in the preseason before the Dodgers obtained Forsythe. The Dodgers in-house long range solution for second base is Taylor and Lux. If Taylor keeps on hitting, the Dodgers don’t need to make a trade for a long term second baseman.
      .
      If the Cubs want a MLB ready controllable pitcher, I suspect that Wood best meets that desire. Maeda would as well but he won’t get Baez. If they can get Archer they would do that before they would take Wood. The Dodgers need Wood more than they need Baez for now.
      .
      Maybe if there is a team that needs to improve three spots in their rotation they might entertain giving up a #2 type pitcher for a package from Maeda, Ryu, Masterson, Jurrjens, Oaks with the #2 guy going to the Cubs and Baez to the Dodgers. Otherwise, I don’t see the Dodgers trading for Baez.

      1. Bum

         What is Baez doing offensively?

         We don’t need another player, that isn’t making much of an offensive, contribution.

         We only have one outfielder, that has been consistent offensively, and that is Cody.

         And Baez tends to be an all or nothing, type of hitter, at times.

4. Baez would be a great addition, but he does not address the Dodger hitting woes.
   Puig continues to struggle with the bat (maddening to watch because of his talent), Joc is a no show at the plate (worse than maddening because he refuses to adjust), Utley takes up space on the roster but continues to play a lot, Turner is missed, guys who are hitting at OKC stay there, the Dodgers are still searching for a legitimate #2 starter, and like Utley, Romo & Hatcher just use up a roster spot. All is ok though, there is a plan, I just think the plan is 2018 and beyond.
   They can win the division, but with these holes, the margin of error in the playoffs is very, very small.

   1. I am uplifted by your motivational rant.

   2. All is ok though, there is a plan, I just think the plan is 2018 and beyond.
      .
      There is definitely a “2018 and beyond” plan, but rest assured, there is also a 2017 plan. Losing Toles and now Turner is going to cause hitting woes, but getting shut down by the current NL ERA leader is nothing to get embarrassed about. Romo and maybe Hatcher “just using up a roster spot” don’t effect the hitting woes.
      .
      How do you think FAZ should adjust the 2017 plan to improve the team, both short and long term?
      .
      I’ll start, I think the pitching is fine. No need to spend hugely to target a #2 (although a strong #2 is always welcome at the right price). Hitting is what I target, specifically 1st base and outfield. Bellinger’s versatility allows us to expand our search to both positions for upgrade. While we have guys in the minors hitting, I am not sure any are really ready to contribute much in 2017. I like Verdugo very much, but think he is one to two years away. To me, that kind of leaves the usual targets discussed on this board, unfortunately our potential trade partners must want an arm and a leg. What to do?

      1. A “2018 and beyond” plan is all well and good, but what about the “2017” plan? With our resources and no real dominant teams to impede us to reaching the World Series, a plan should be in effect now that will bring us a championship. I, for one, am sick and tired of having to think all the way back to 1988 . This Wait til Next Year stuff is getting old…and so are we. Get it done FAZ.

         1. We are ALL ready for a winning 2017 plan and I agree there is no dominant teams. We can win it all this year. The loss of Toles was HUGE in my opinion, now Turner for who knows how long. Add in Pederson sucking, Gonzalez getting hit by father time, so FAZ must adapt. What to do???? I know they have closely examined the minor league options we have, hoped that our other players would start hitting better and assembled lots of trade assets. Who do they target?
            .
            Cain, .259 BA, .353 OBP, .358 SLG, .711 OPS, Would be nice, but probably no savior and at what cost.
            .
            Cain would be expensive, I’d like to see them put together an even bigger package and target someone like 26 yr old Ozuna with his two more years of team control. Marlins are stinking it up and need multiple young guys. I didn’t think he would be available, but maybe now.

            1. Boxout

               Since Toles will be back next year, we only need a rental, and a rental is almost always, cheaper.

            2. Rentals are almost always cheaper, but Ozuna would become part of the young core in 2018 and 2019 (at least) who could be an everyday player capable of playing both left and center. He also has alot more power than someone like Cain and you have to ask yourself, has he reached his ceiling?
               .
               Regarding Toles, can we even count on Toles next year? ACL’s are serious business. As much as I like Toles, I think he is viewed as a platoon outfielder by FAZ.

         2. And so is Kershaw, what a waste of great talent.

5. I see Hill’s talent and it is tantalizing. The guy is 37 but in late May it’s still like ST for him. He should have come in with his finger already calloused and worked out his command issues more than a month ago. Had the Dodgers known that Wood, McCarthy and Ryu were going to be healthy and Hill was going to fart around after getting a big payday I think they don’t sign him. But they did so now the rotation is being shuffled around. I understand Ryu to the bullpen and even endorse it-for now. I understand Urias to AAA and see the benefit-for now. I don’t get a grizzled vet struggling with location, getting upset with the umpire, and walking 7 including the pitcher in a home game when your team has been having trouble scoring runs, against a pitcher who now leads the league in ERA.
   –
   Watching Lynn and Leake look like Koufax and Drysdale is a statement about the Dodgers offense, or lack of it. Yes, they pitched well and had a plan and the Cards have played well on the road lately yada yada. It is almost painful to watch guys just walk up and get themselves out but that is what they are doing. I know it’s early and a long season, I’m saying the Dodgers are not an exciting team to watch right now. How about bunting to beat the shift (like Carpenter), putting guys in motion, some hit and run plays? How about some 2 strike hits the other way and hits WRISP? It can’t always be a 3 run HR to win the game with one swing.
   –
   Turner is hurt, Puig is hurting, Forsythe and AGon are getting their timing back, Bellinger is being challenged and the weight is on Seager and Grandal. I get it, but with the talent they have should be able to put up 3 or 4 runs a night and give their pitching a chance to win. Not quite ready to demand a shake things up trade but ready for some consistent offensive production.

   1. Boxout

      Medicine is much more advanced, especially with the doctors, that these pro athlete’s, have.

      I think Toles will be fine, he has already proved, he is a fighter.

      And I wouldn’t assume he is a platoon player either.

      He did get some pretty big hits for the team, off leftie pitchers.

      He also has more speed then Ozuna, and he has more pop, then people think. And

      He hit one more HR then Joc did, in his first month, of the season.

      1. MJ, have you noticed that you always find a way to say something negative about Joc. You knock Joc as much as you use commas.

         1. Bum

            I was just emphasizing Toles has more power, then we thought.

            I only used Joc as a measure, above.

            1. But ignored his first two years.

6. I look forward to a healthy lineup:
   –
   However, I do think a change has to come. We really need a Lorenzo Cain in CF this year. Joc and Ryu? Maybe Joc, Stewart and Ryu?
   –
   It’s has to be done.
   –
   1. Cain CF
   2. Seager SS
   3. Turner 3B
   4. Bellinger LF
   5. Forsythe 2B
   6. A-Gon 1B
   7. Grandal C
   8. Puig RF
   –
   I think that is the ticket. Either that of trade the Top 15 Prospects for Trout! 😉
   –
   I still feel good about this team. We are 7 games above .500. The Cubs are 3! We have issues – they have as many… maybe more. It happens – Kyle Schwarber is hitting .186, Rizzo is at .238, Russell is hitting .214, Contreras is at .240 and Hayward still sucks. Most of them will get going… and so will ours!
   –
   Even if you don’t like the methods, the pitching is still #1 in baseball. We are 10th in BA and 7th in Runs scored. Arizona and Colorado will fade. Write that down! The Dodgers are still looking good!

   1. Bum

      I re read what I wrote, and I guess I didn’t make it clear, enough.

      I was talking about Joc’s very first month of Major League Baseball, in 2015.

      And I was talking about Toles very first month, this year.

      1. Bum

         If I was comparing both in the first month of the season this year, there would be more of a gap, then just one.

7. On Leake:
   –
   He is 7-2 with a 1.91 ERA and a 0.93 WHIP. Last year , he was 9-12 with a 4.69 ERA.
   –
   Who is the real Mike Leake?
   –
   Career wise, he has a 3.90 ERA and 1.26 WHIP. Sometimes, guys just put it all together later in their careers (Rich Hill, Justin Turner) and sometimes they get lucky for a while. He has been lights out, but the exit velocity on his hits are 3 MPH above the MLB average. We shall see…

   1. Mark

      I just thought our players needed to have better at bats, and have more patient at bats, against Leak.

      They should have tried to spoil Leak’s good pitches, and wait for him to make a mistake, like leaving a pitch up.

      But Hill’s performance has to affect, the players on the team too.

      It wasn’t fun to watch him pitch as just a fan, so I can see that it might not be, very motivating for the players, either.

      I didn’t expect Hill to pitch as many innings, as some starting pitchers pitch, but I expected him to pitch well, when he was able to pitch.

   2. Who is the real Mike Leake?
      only his pharmacist know for sure.

8. Ron Cervanka says it a bit more eloquently:

   http://www.thinkbluela.com/2017/05/dr-jekyll-and-mr-hill/

9. I believe the dodgers have the starting pitching. In the big picture if he can stay healthy hill will be the number 2. Wood is certainly pitching like a number 2 or even a 1 currently it remains to be seen whether he can do that over the full season. The wild card is Urias if he can get righted he may have the ceiling we need. Another possibility is kazmir if he ever revives. Otherwise McCarthy is solid right now but… maeda well we have already seen you can’t trust him in playoffs. I fully expect the cards to torch him tonight. Ryu obviously not able to bad because he had the stuff prior to injury. Offensively is where we better improve. Turner is the only legitimate hitter. Most of the rest can’t even put the bat on the ball against good pitching. Utley is a waste why not bring Calhoun up and give him a shot. He could take the abs utley is getting. He doesn’t strikeout much and he could supply some power. There is no one in this lineup other than turner that scares anyone. Seager would be the other possibility but he seems almost uninterested no fire. In the end seager will probably have solid numbers but his strikeouts are mounting. So a pitcher says be careful with turner and seager and the rest just don’t walk. An average pitcher needs to be careful with bellinger but he has an expected learning curve and justneeds experience so it will take a while for him. Cain and Herrera would certainly help this team.

   1. The Dodgers have a player on the team who is #1 in HR and RBI in May – I think he scares pitchers. In fact, I know he does.

10. Mark I was typing mine while you posted so I didn’t know you were advocating to get Cain but exactly my feeling. Un fortunately they will probably hold onto him until the deadline to drive the price up.

11. I agree that you can’t expect that Hill will have his “A” game yet, given his recent return from the DL and his reliance on touch. This accentuates the problem though – you sign an injury-prone guy to a $16MM/year contract knowing that he will spend much of the season on the DL and you have to expect some poorly-pitched games when he returns due to his reliance on touch. He only made 2 rehab starts and one was horrible. So far this season, Hill has given the Dodgers 17 innings in 4 starts with 12 BB and 17 K, a 4.76 ERA and a 1.17 WHIP. Sure, it’s early but not that early. The Dodgers have played 46 games (28% of the season). Can Hill get it together in time to be a plus? Absolutely. Can he be ineffective or injured for most of the rest of the season? Sure, that’s possible too.
    –
    I maintain that the Dodgers will have pretty good but not great starting pitching – they won’t know who is in the rotation from week to week. Who will the 5 be by the time the playoffs start (assuming they make the post-season)? I don’t know and either do you. I would love to have a legit #2 starter but I don’t expect that the Dodgers will part with the kind of prospects to make that happen.
    –
    The offense has been inconsistent for years now. You look at the lineup and they should score more than they do every year. There’s been lots written about the reasons for that (bad clutch hitting, problems with lefties, inability to play small ball, etc.) but the fact is that with this team, they will go through periods where they just don’t score runs. I don’t know that there is a silver bullet that will solve this problem. I know that some here are interested in Ryan Braun but the Brewers are currently in 1st and they may not be looking to dump salary this year. JD Martinez maybe?
    –
    As to the long term plan, Ethier and Crawford come off of the books after 2017. Pederson, Grandal, Van Slyke, Kike Hernandez, Baez, Wood, Avilan, Hatcher and Fields are all arb eligible in 2018. I assume that the Dodgers will still be in luxury tax land in ’18. The big money can come off of the books after 2018. Adrian Gonzalez, Puig, McCarthy, Ryu, Arruebarrena, and Kendrick (dead money) all come off of the books and of course, Kershaw can exercise his option as well. If the Dodgers are going to sign any big money free agents (a big if in my view) then it will not likely be this off season but next.

12. Hill stunk up Glendale. My take is that he is an average pitcher who had a couple of good seasons. And now, blisters. Nice guy, etc. But he is no better than a #5. To rely on him to get to the promised land is not a good formula. It’s time to get Stripling back into the rotation. The sooner the better. Day in and day out, Stripling will be as productive as Hill, without all the drama and disruption. Plus, the youth factor if a good thing.

13. Did everyone see Brett Anderson’s tweet?

    Brett Anderson”
    As badly as I have pitched, this is the best team atmosphere, that I have ever been in, and it isn’t even, close.

    Let’s see how the Cubs would feel about Anderson, if they paid him, 25 million dollars, for just one average, season.

    The Cubs are paying him, just over three million dollars!

14. Throwing his bullpen sessions with a band-aid covering his finger isn’t going to help him be sharp anymore than throwing every 7 days. They need to find out if he can do it or not. If not, send him to the pen until the blister issue is figured out. He could assume the role Wood had initially.

    Roberts needs to show some balls and pick his five guys. Someone’s feelings may get hurt if they get send to the pen or AAA. For now:
    Kershaw
    Wood
    McCarthy
    Hill
    Maeda or Ryu(pick one and stick with it)

    Maeda has options and I have to imagine that Ryu might as well, but it may be similar to how Puig was sent down last year since they were rookies the same year I believe.

    The offense is frightening right now. Puig’s first AB last night was a microcosm of his season so far. Joc has done nothing. Agone swing still looks like it is all arms to me. One of those two have to bounce out of it. I would have no problem sending Joc, Ryu, and Stewart to KC, but if they’re going down that route then Herrera needs to be on the to do list as well. Add Herrera and say goodbye to Romo.

    1. Hawkeye

       At least he should try liquid band-aid, first!

15. The Dodgers have a 27 – 20 record and have won the West Division each of the last four years with most of those wins due to a strong finish that followed a slow start.
    .
    Some are questioning the ability of Hill, Urias, Ryu, and Maeda to win enough games and yet are willing to trade Pederson and Stewart along with one of Madea/Ryu for a 31 year outfielder that would be a free agent after this year and is hitting all of .259 with 2 HR and 10 RBI. Joc alone has 2 home runs and 11 RBI and just turned 25.

    1. thank you!

    2. If the OF to whom you refer is Cain, I agree – not interested

16. Joc to 7 day DL (concussion) to make room for Kenta

    Dodgers lineup:
    Taylor CF
    Seager SS
    Grandal C
    Gonzalez 1B
    Bellinger LF
    Utley 2B
    Hernandez 3B
    Puig RF
    Maeda P

    1. I don’t like Grandal 3rd!

       1. I can’t complain where they’re batting him with Turner out and sloppy Gonzalez back at first. Just kidding. He made a great scoop tonight at first.

17. I have no idea why anyone is surprised as to how Hill pitched last night. He last pitched on May 16. Pitchers like Hill need to pitch to maximize their command. That many days off, and he is probably amped and throwing too hard to command and control his breaking ball. I am generally supportive of the front office strategies, but to me they are over-thinking this rotation. Pick five and stay with them until one is truly hurt. But now both Maeda and Ryu are in the rotation, and Kershaw is now scheduled to be pitching on an extra day’s rest. Will he be the same? Pitchers being rested for the playoffs won’t matter much if they do not get to the playoffs.
    .
    With that said, I do fully expect the Dodgers to get to the playoffs, and have a solid rotation. Will that include what some consider a true #2? Who is that #2? Quintana? Archer? Which of Buehler/Urias/Alveraz are you willing to lose? Houston wants a big pitcher this year, and they will spend to get him. Houston is more willing to spend from their farm, but I do not get the impression that Dodgers want to. I am not in that camp, because I do think the pitching is there, and I am not willing to lose two of those pitchers, when I think the problem with the Dodgers is their offense. I do not think the offensive answer is in OKC or Tulsa. They need 1 maybe 2 difference makers. Who they are and what they will cost I have no idea. But the Dodgers have the surplus to make a significant move, if they want one. If they do not, they are going to have to get hot and lucky, which is entirely possible. Maybe the front office believes that the luck and heat are going to come from Joc and Puig.

18. Lorenzo Cain currently has a .259 BA, so you want to make a determination based upon that? Look at his OB%, which is .353 and he has stolen 12 bases in 12 attempts.
    –
    He was injured in 2016, but in 2015 and 2014 he hit over .300 each year and averaged over .350 OB%. So, there is that.
    –
    BTW, he is a .286 career hitter.
    –
    I have always been supportive of Joc, but I had him pegged as a #4 OF long ago. Count me unconvinced. I do hope he proves me wrong if they keep him. There’s always Mike Trout.

    1. I agree, Cain used to be a good player.

19. DODGERS REINSTATE ADAM LIBERATORE
    –
    LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles Dodgers today reinstated left-handed pitcher Adam Liberatore from the 10-day disabled list and placed left-handed pitcher Luis Avilán on the 10-day disabled list with a left triceps soreness (retroactive to May 24).
    –
    Liberatore, who missed 14 games due to a left groin strain, last pitched on May 8 against the Pirates and tossed a perfect inning of relief with one strikeout. In two relief appearances for Los Angeles this season, he has allowed one run in 1.1 innings (6.75) and has held batters to a .200 average (1-for-5). Liberatore started the season with Triple-A Oklahoma City, going 0-1 with a 0.93 ERA (1 ER/9.2 IP) and has limited the opposition to a .152 average, while striking out nine against one walk in eight games.
    –
    Avilán last pitched on May 23 against the Cardinals, allowing one hit in an inning of relief with one strikeout. He has made 23 relief appearances this season, going 0-1 with a 3.00 ERA (5 ER/15.0 IP) and has stuck out 20 batters against eight walks.
    –
    Romo survives again!

20. Anybody want this guy? 218 .308 .431 .739
    .
    .
    .
    .
    His name is Machado
    .
    Don’t panic.

    1. Rather have Arenado.

21. Hate to lose avilan for the rest of this series. He made carpenter look very bad in striking him out in the Tuesday game. I agree with mark on Cain. I would add that last year he hammered left handed pitching and has had post season success. Since he is having a down season he might come cheap.

22. Wow – in his last start, Maeda went 8 solid innings. Then he had one of those phantom innings. Now, he can’t get anyone out. Great plan – again.

    1. Must be… #1 in all of baseball!

    2. Should be phantom injuries – not innings.
       –
       Like Ryu last time.
       –
       These pitchers who rely on feel can’t afford the time off.

       1. So are you saying he wasn’t injured? MLB investigated and determined he was. I mean, he had just pitched 8.1 excellent innings, and the previous two games he was excellent as well, so FAZ says “Hey, let’s put him on the DL, since he has been pitching so good?”
          –
          That’s absurd!

          1. “The Dodgers are a fascinating franchise in terms of their thinking. They claim that Kenta Maeda injured his left hamstring a couple of weeks ago. Then on Wednesday they send him out and he pitches a gem, 8 1/3 innings of 2-run ball with 5 K, 0 BB, and 5 hits, several hours later he was placed on the DL with injury to said hamstring. Reportedly the Dodgers contemplated putting him on the DL a couple of weeks ago when the injury initially surfaced, but Maeda reassured them that he would be good enough to him his scheduled starts. Then, after Rich Hill’s outing went well on Wednesday night, the Dodgers felt comfortable that they would be able to activate him in time for when Maeda’s next start would be.”
             –
             So yes, I suspect this was the use of the 10 day DL to manipulate the roster. Certainly, I’m not the only one who suspects this. All they needed was a doctor who would say that his hammy was strained – that doesn’t mean that he was injured or couldn’t pitch.

23. I suppose Grandal should have blocked that too?

24. Sorry to say I predicted he would be torched but doesn’t matter we can’t score anyway. The strikeouts begin.

25. Who knew maeda was our offensive weapon!! I do see a more aggressive approach tonight for some reason.

26. Since maeda is out of the game I will say I was wrong he did not get torched. He hung in real well. On a side note I was fortunate to be at Chicago last year for the playoff game in which maeda started. Thanks to Kendrick misplacing a flyball he got off to a poor start and struggled. However, as I was walking to my seat he was finishing his warmup and I hollered his name. He turned and threw me the ball he had been warming with. The cub fans were saying how did you get and I said duh I was the only one with a dodger shirt on. I was also wrong about the offense tonight. I think Wacha was throwing well but the dodgers seemed loose and aggressive. Keep it up go dodgers. I hate the cards as much as the giants.

27. That must have been the easiest DP of all time with Grandal & AGon running.

28. M.T. why the snitty remarks Yasmani Nureyev??? He’s pretty damn good and I think most agree…
    Maeda followed by Ryu!??! Maybe were onto something here!??!

29. OOPs! about Yasmani…

30. Happy for Ryu. I’m rooting for him. In a big game I would trust him more than Maeda.

31. Watford my man- My lateness in responding, I’ll blame on old age!!!
    My thoughts n prayers are with Manchester…

    1. Cheers Pete

       Very sad week here TBH.

       This is a new low for me, targeting basically teenage girls.
       Don’t know where it’s all gonna end.

32. Hawkeye – Hard to pick right now, but I don’t think Maeda was second or third in ROY last year by luck…

Comments are closed.