It’s Not About the Money!

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1. This is the first time I could agree with you about agon. Your arguments about the trade with boston were always wrong and agon has been the best hitter of the dodgers for five years. but not anymore. You finally have solid arguments about your comments about gonzalez

   1. You are fully entitled to your opinion, but what is happening right now is part of the reason I disliked The Trade.
      –
      A-Gon Has been the best hitter on the Dodgers, until last year – Seager and Turner were better. I still believe that we paid way to much for him. The last 3 or 4 years of his contract he has cost the Dodgers $43 million a year (his salary plus CC’s salary).
      –
      If we could have traded just for A-Gon, I would have been extremely happy. As it is, I still believe we god robbed!

      1. On this one Mark, you are missing the big picture, Agon was the best hitter, one of the top players in the team, and put a lot of people in the stands. That part cover the money, and on the prospect side I dont see any of those players playing anymore. Money they still have a lot to spend, they use the money to be competetive, not prospects like everybody else.

2. Boy do I agree with you Mark, but I do not see it happening. The only way it does happen is if they take themselves out of the picture. FAZ is loyal and they will stay. I am ok with them staying. I think their leadership will be needed in October. I believe Bellinger and Taylor will both be sent down. It may not happen if a trade is made. They will be back up.

   I really think Puig is close to breaking out. He is hitting the ball very hard. He just needs to get some air under his hits. This is what Turner has been working on. I bet Turner is trying to help Puig.

   The one I think should be traded is Joc. I would trade Joc for prospects. Put Bellinger, Toles and Puig in the outfield. Keep Gutierrez, Utley, Barnes and Kike as your subs. The staters are fine and we have replacements. The bull pen needs some help. The odd man out is Taylor, but he will be coming back with any injury. He will be back in September.

   I would trade Dickson. He is blocked and he deserves a chance to play.

3. CF Pederson
   RF Puig
   SS Seager
   3B Turner
   1B Bellinger
   2B Forsythe
   LF Toles
   C Barnes

   Bench: Gutierrez, Gonzales, Taylor, Grandal, Hernandez

   1. Exchange Forsythe for Puig and Toles for Pederson in the batting order and I’m on board .
      Toles
      Forsythe
      Seager
      Turner
      Bellinger
      Puig
      Pederson
      Barnes

4. Agon did heat up at the end of last year and had an overall productive year, but he was clearly trending downwards. He went from a pretty steady wRC+ of around 130 to 112. Zips and Steamer project him to produce a 107 and a 105 wRC+ . WAR numbers for Agon’s tenure with the Dodgers are 2.9, 3.6, 3.1 and then the precipitous drop to 1.3 last year. He had a 6.1 WAR with a 155 wRC+ one year with the Sox. That’s when the Dodgers should have had him. He should have been signed originally when he was a FA, but that was during the McCourt regime and Frank and Jamie were to busy using Dodger equity to pay for divorce attorneys. I know Coletti wanted him…..I thought he was a great fit in LA….but they waited and then had to overpay by taking on Crawford’s contract. Oh well. Nice that we’ve had him
   .
   .Looking for trends in his statistics, he getting thrown more four seam fastballs and they’re being thrown a little harder. His contact percentage has dropped and his pop up rate has spiked up. He’s just not catching up to high fastballs anymore. Nearly every batting metric dropped to career lows last year, and have absolutely cratered this year so far.

   . His defense has declined by a significant margin as well. UZR/150 for his time with the Dodgers are:
   6.5
   .
   5.1
   .
   3.2
   .
   -.06 last year
   and so for he’s at -11.3.
   .
   He’s not making the hard plays anymore. Bellinger’s a stud defensive first baseman. It might be time.
   .
   Toles has picked it up lately. If he can earn a more consistent spot in the left, and if Bellinger takes over the 1rst baseman job, the Dodgers have two eligible candidates for ROY.

5. I agree with your opinion about both players. It’s been too long since LA has had a World Series trophy and our best chance is with the younger players that have shown that they belong in the big leagues. This happens to all players, you can’t escape the cruel process of aging. The front office created depth, let’s use it not trade it !

6. I agree with Bums lineup above, Utley goes on the DL to be used later when needed as more players will get hurt. AGon and Grandal get playing time also. More players will get hurt so need some flexibility. AGon has too much committed to him salary wise to cut him loose and still has value, just not as an everyday player. Joc does a decent job at leadoff, takes walks and provides power and speed. A few bunts might loosen up the shifts he sees. Puig is ideal in the 2 hole as he takes the ball the other way, and also provides speed and power. Both are good defensively. Seager and Turner drop into their more natural spots and Bellinger provides protection. Toles drops into a spot where his speed plays but without the pressure of leading off. Barnes is a good defensive catcher and has speed and a contact bat. It will change against LH starters. Taylor just provides way more than Utley at this point. Kiki is versatile but needs to quit trying for a home run on every swing, he is not that player. That is the best group of position players at this point in the season.

7. In his last 5 games batting leadoff, Toles is 7/19, batting .368, 2 HR and now we want to replace him with Joc Pederson?

   Give the man a chance!

8. More than the lineup I like the position players Bum proposed, Roberts uses all kinds of lineups daily. SVS and Utley are the biggest additions by subtraction. Grandal and AGon clog the middle when placed there. Toles has the speed to handle leadoff and so does Joc. Forsythe I like lower in the order also, 6 is perfect. Pederson hits well in the 8 hole too for some reason. Taylor and Bellinger deserve to stay just on production. I’ve been wanting Puig up ahead of Seager and Turner for awhile and Bellinger is a perfect 5 hole guy and will get lots of RBI’s there and provide protection for JT.

   1. Vegas

      I would not hit Puig towards the top of the line up, because Puig is not good, in clutch situations.

      Last night, his second hit was in a clutch situation, but his other two hits, came after we had a good lead.

      Although Puig has good speed, he has hit into triple the double plays, then anyone else, on the team.

      Puig has hit into 9 double plays, in the first month, of the season.

      And double plays, kill rallies.

      And I believe he has struck out, 20 times too.

      And because of these two issues, I don’t think Puig should hit near the top of the line up.

      1. Puig has thrived in the two spot in the past.

         1. Hawkeye

            Your right, in his first couple of years, when he was good, he did hit well, in the second position.

            I don’t know what happen to his self esteem since those two years, but he isn’t good under pressure.

            And the first time I saw him like that, was when he played, in the post season.

9. I read that Agon has a back issue too. Sounds like injury list stuff to me. We will see what Urias learned from last time when he pitches tonight. I love that Moore stinks.

10. It is painful watching AGon and Utley right now. Suggestion – Move Utley into the post game recap booth replacing Ned, giving Ned his walking papers. Keep AGon awhile longer as he seems to be coming around. Give him time to heal his tennis elbow and become a spark off the bench / spot starter. Give Joc Pederson a chance to to hit .260 with 25 bombs each year. He plays a stellar defense and that’s got to count for something. The game is not all offense and Joc saves runs in the field. Love Taylor, Bellinger and Toles but I don’t see Toles as an everyday CF. Don’t see Kiki as an everyday CF either. Just my take. Why do we have to do math in order to comment? I hate math……..

11. White goes tonight. According to another site Buehler sent back to extended spring training. I thought I read that he was promoted to Tulsa.

    1. Likely a paper transaction as he just pitched. Expect to see a transaction before this weekend moving Bueller on to Tulsa

       1. I agree with this. Buehler is not scheduled to start until this weekend, so there is no reason to take up a roster spot to sit on the bench. Does someone go on the 7-Day DL at Tulsa or does someone get demoted, or does someone get promoted to OKC where someone gets released or DL?

12. Although I believe Joc is better at working a count, and picking up walks, then Toles is, I am not totally sold on Joc, at the top of the line up, either.

    Joc did look good when he started two games in the lead off position this year, but he lead off before, in his first year, and that didn’t turn out well.

    And I am not necessarily saying that Toles should lead off, I am just concerned about Joc leading off, because he strikes out, to much.

    And at this point in the season, Joc has already struck out 18 times, even though he has been out on the DL, for ten days.

    And Puig the other hitter, some want to see near the top of the line up, has struck out 20 times already.

    And if we had Joc and Puig hittting one after each other, at the top of the line up, like some want to see, in the first month of the season, how many runs would we have actually scored, with these two players, striking out, 38 times?

    1. MJ, Joc has earned all the negatives you identified and is not the stereotypical lead off hitter but that is where he best fits with the current players on the 25. Toles has looked good lately and is another candidate for lead off but I think he makes the lineup better hitting where you have repeatedly said he would do better–lower in the lineup.

       1. Bum

          My main concern about Joc hitting first, is only his strike outs.

          And I thought Toles hit better lower in the line up, but he seems to hit better in the clutch, then Puig does.

          And Toles has hit pretty well lately leading off, probably because sometimes, a hitters first two strikes, are the best pitches, they will get.

          But I could see both, leading off.

          And I know that Toles doesn’t have a high OBA.

          But I do see Toles improving, and getting deeper into counts, then he did.

          And Roberts just might go with the hot hand, as the season goes on.

          And like Vegas said, it is more about these main players playing, then all of these different line ups, that we are all making.

          And thank God we don’t make all of the decisions and the batting orders, because it isn’t as easy as it looks.

          And Baseball is a very long season.

       2. Bum

          I bet you wanted to strangle Joc, after you saw Bellinger use that bunt, to get on base.

          1. Not at all. I was hoping Joc was watching. Joc keeps trying to bunt the ball too close to the third base line instead of where Bellinger was aiming. I also want to see more drag bunts when the second baseman is playing in short right field.

             1. Bum

                I don’t think you want Joc to drag a bunt, because that is part of his problem.

                Joc is more worried about taking off, then getting his bunt down and squaring it up right, and making sure, it is going up the third baseline.

                He takes off to soon.

                It you noticed Bellinger, he was relaxed in the batter’s box.

                He wasn’t in a big hurry, to run out of the batter’s box, because he knew, if he got the bunt down correctly, no one would catch him.

13. Everyone can debate the lineups, Roberts does not ask for our opinion and changes them daily. Agon and Grandal clog the bases and perhaps should not both be in the lineup at the same time and bat lower in the order. Forsythe strikes out a lot too and has not shown power yet but had 20 HR’s last year. He has batted first or second a lot this year but would be better lower. Last night Kike was leadoff trying to hit jacks and Bellinger was 8th, not where I would bat either of them but 13 runs is hard to argue with. Grandal has a lot of swings and misses lately, especially breaking balls out of the zone. With 3 LH hitting outfielders maybe Puig can take a day off once a week and put Bellinger in RF. They can go all RH in the OF also like last night. They will always mix and match but Seager, JT and Bellinger at 3-4-5 is a good start. My main point is Bums proposal is the best position players that gives the team the best chance to win whatever the lineup. I am still not sold on Kike and Gutierrez either but Utley is taking a spot from someone like SVS was. AGon is an open question but with more rest he is a useful bat and a good clubhouse presence and can hurt you off the bench. When he starts he should be fresher and maybe his power starts to return.

14. Hill/fields gone. Pederson-hatcher gone. Forsythe-ravin 60 dl segedin- either Utley gone or either to 60 day dl or gonzo 10 dl. what do u think. we still have ryu/kazmir/and stewart on dl

    1. Hill/Fields — think still have value
       –
       Hatcher — don’t think is consistent enough to stay
       –
       Pedersen – still has value in CF though not averse to trade if return is value
       –
       Forsythe – starting 2b, solid player. If rehab game ok will be back this weekend. Not yet ready to rely only on Taylor but ….
       –
       Ravin — no strong feelings
       –
       Utley — think his time has passed. This is where hard decisions need to be made. That why they pay FAZ (and Utley) well
       –
       AGon — needs to go on 10 day DL then be backup/ph unless injury move Cody to OF

       1. hill, Pederson, forsythe, and segedin coming off dl who goes down. fields, hatcher, ravin 60 dl, ethier 60 day dl. gonzo and Utley are close to dl or dfa.

          1. Josh Ravin is on rehab assignment at Rancho, so he is unlikely to go on the 60-Day DL. Ethier/Kazmir clear 60 Day DL candidates.

15. I like Kike Hernandez but I don’t see a need to keep him w Chris Taylor breaking out. We have plenty of OF depth and Y Puig could shift to CF when Joc needs a rest w Van Slyke or Guts and even Bellinger moving over to right. LA will find at bats for Bellinger. He’s too good to be sent down.

16. https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2017/05/n-l-notes-bellinger-harvey-darnaud-bryant.html?fv-home=true&post-id=91424

17. Interesting article on Taylor.
    ~
    Touches on the specific changes to his swing instituted by hitting consultants Robert Van Scoyoc and Craig Wallenbrock. What’s interesting is that Justin Turner and Puig have used an external hitting consultant Doug Latta. I wonder what the club policy on this is.
    ~
    http://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/02/dodgers-notes-chris-taylor-making-his-case-to-stay-in-majors/

18. I am going to keep harping on this. How has Joc improved in the past three years offensively? Toles, Puig, and Bellinger are all better options. Yes, he can play defense. I will say it. I am not a Puig fan, but he is better than a Joc.

    1. fWAR for Joc Pederson:

       2015 .1 WAR
       2016 2.9 WAR
       2017 3.6 WAR

       1. IGNORE!

          Got the year’s wrong:

          fWAR for Joc Pederson:
          2014 0.1 WAR
          2015 2.9 WAR
          2016 3.6 WAR

19. Several random observations:
    1 – Dodger fans are excited, with good reason, with Cody Bellinger’s hot start. But MLB will humble the best of them. He has only been up 32 times. Can anyone say small sample size? When the pitchers adjust to him, will he be able to adjust back? We don’t know yet. I would say to give him some more play at the MLB level and see.
    2 – Is Gonzalez done or just hurt? We don’t know. Rather than run him out there every day, put him on the DL, see what Bellinger can do playing every day at 1B, and then see if Gonzalez has anything left.
    3 – I like what Chris Taylor has shown so far but again, he’s been up 35 times this year. For his career, he is slashing .241 .303 .637 in 320 AB. Not great. So has he discovered his stroke or will he revert? We don’t know yet so don’t get too excited. I would DFA Utley and give Taylor more play.
    4 – Taylor is a better INF glove than Kike is. It’s not bad to keep them both up.
    5 – It’s early on Toles too. His career slash line is .286 .335 .824 with 8 HR in 182 AB (and only 1 SB, surprisingly). Joc’s career triple slash is .224 .347 .785 in 964 AB but with 52 HR. Joc is a better defender than Toles. Is it a matter of keeping one or the other? Can both co-exist?
    6 – Puig’s slash is .285 .359 .828 . Since 2015, his OPS is .758, .740 and .756 (in ’15, ’16 and ’17). He is also a plus defender and has 62 HR in 1654 AB.
    7 – Do the Dodgers dump Joc or Puig in their effort to upgrade and if so who do they play? Verdugo doesn’t have MLB experience and we don’t know if he will pan out or not. From what I have read he is not projected to be a MLB caliber CF but an underpowered RF probably. Will the team pull the trigger on a trade for a big bat? Does anyone really think that the Braintrust will spend the $$$ necessary to sign the likes of Harper? What’s wrong with keeping Toles, Joc and Puig in the OF for now?

    1. Seems pretty well thought out to me DR. And, no, I would not expect them to spend what it will likely take to land a Harper; nor would I want them to do so.

20. Dodger Rick–I can live with that outfield. You have to assume Bellinger is not part of the equation. If Agon is healthy he is going to play. Bellinger has to go down when Joc comes back.

21. Because Bellinger, Toles and Puig are playing better and producing more right now. Send Joc to OKC if AGon doesn’t go on the DL.

22. Bluto

    BA RBI HR SLG Hits

    2015 210 54 26 417 67
    2016 246 68 27 495 64
    2017 220 7 1 340 6

    I do not see much improvement. This is what I look at. A 240 batting ave is not much to talk about for an outfielder.

    1. 1. You are counting 2017! That’s a tiny sample.
       2. There’s improvement in the other year.
       ~
       You original point wasn’t if he’s a good enough OF (which he may be) but that he hasn’t improved.

23. Why is Agon untradeable? Certainly he isn’t going to bring back much, if anything, in the way of players/prospects. But if the Dodgers think that Bellinger is the current answer at 1B (and I think he is), then why wouldn’t they agree to eat two-thirds or more of Agon’s salary for this year and next. His current salary is a sunk cost, so anything saved (which also includes a lowered luxury tax in addition to his salary) is money earned.

    For now, however, it certainly seems reasonable for Agon to accept a move to the DL. And if he can’t be traded, then we find out exactly what sort of a teammate he is if demoted to a part-time role.

    And I want to take full credit for Toles’ recent surge. He only started doing so after I criticized his hitting.

    1. Brooklyn

       I fondly remember about Toles, Thanks!

24. These proposal to bench Grandal are silly. Just get him out of the 4 and 5 spots in the order. He has too many bad AB’s chasing balls in the dirt that just look unprofessional to bat 4th or 5th. We all know he’s a streaky hitter and having him hit 7th or 8th lengthens the lineup to me.

25. The Bellinger decision is about the money. Read Eric Stephen’s article about the effect that Bellinger’s being a “Super Two” player will have on his cost to the Dodgers.
    http://www.truebluela.com/2017/5/3/15533578/cody-bellinger-super-two-question-dodgers

    1. I predict that he will stay on the team. Does that still make it about the money… or the production.
       –
       UPDATE: A-Gon has a Herniated disc!

26. Agon obviously not healthy and it’s a shame injuries and age has reduced his ability to perform. I believe he has done all he can to earn his contract unlike Crawford who would be on the dl with a hangnail. He probably doesn’t have much trade value now but he can still contribute barring a career ending injury. Faz depth will be needed because I think Forsyth is likely to be on the dl multiple times. He is not quite Brett Anderson but he can’t be accused of being durable. Just play Taylor to see if he can stick.

27. What a Class Act!
    –
    There will never be another Vin.
    –
    Amazing!

28. Is it good to hear Vin again.

    1. It brings tear to my eyes, when I see Vin.

29. Watching Urias tonight reminds me a little of Chad Billingsly – he doesn’t trust his stuff so missed out on a lot of Ks. He fell behind on 75% of the hitters tonight. He has to trust his stuff.

    1. No comparison to Bills. He reminds me of Clayton at the same stage.
       –
       Some A-Hole that used to be here always used to rag on Clayton because he walked so many hitters and threw so many pitches. How did that work out?
       –
       Since the All-Star Game of last year Urias has the best ERA in baseball.
       –
       Billingsley? Please….
       –
       Bills was OK. Urias is in Kershaw’s class!
       –
       I think he trusts his stuff. He just wasn’t hitting his spots. It’s only his second start of the year. Nothing to worry about!

       1. It’s so easy to take Kershaw for granted.
          ~
          Urias is good, but he’s nowhere near Kershaw.
          ~
          Gotta get Gonzalez to the DL.
          ~
          McCullough, who has been a godsend on the beat, weighs in on the % chance that Utley is designated or released:
          “Pretty slim. DL would be way more likely, if they needed to clear roster space. Utley is a talismanic figure in clubhouse.”

          1. I’m not comparing Urias to Kershaw NOW, I am comparing him to the young Clayton.

30. Taylor is becoming a good pinch hitter.

31. What good is pitch framing if Grandal can’t catch., especially late innings. Trade him, Barnes is better behind the plate, and can run. I’d rather have the defense, and OH yea, Bellinger makes that play that went under Gonzalez’s glove.

32. Another tough loss to take, but to be honest as soon as it went to extra innings I knew that we were done.

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