Changes in Baseball Are Coming!

There is so much talk about Ohtani and Stanton right about now, that there is not much buzz about changes to teams and the game of baseball itself.  Rob Manfred is intent on speeding up play and will implement a pitch clock, likely as soon as 2018 but there will be other changes as well… maybe not all next season, but they are coming.

  • Designated Hitter in the NL – In the NBA, NHL and NFL there are not different rules for each conference.   Baseball is the only sport that does that.  It’s silly that there is a DH in the AL but not the NL.  Some would like to eliminate the DH period.  It ain’t happening.  The DH is coming to the NL!  Probably not next season, but it’s coming… like it or not.
  • Expanded Rosters – Maybe up to 27 players, especially if they expand the use of the DH. Maybe there are two DH’s per team and maybe they can each bat 3 times a game without having to take who they hit for out of the game.  Think about it….
  • Limit Pitching Changes – Unless he is injured, a pitcher has to complete an inning and if a new pitcher comes in, he has to get three outs – no mid-inning pitching changes.
  • Expansion – Manfred wants to have 32 teams, but first they have to fix Oakland and Tampa Bay, which means helping them get new stadiums or letting them move. Here’s a list of America’s TOP 50 cities ranked by population.  The cities in RED already have a team (I counted Dallas, Ft. Worth and Arlington as one market).  Cleveland is #51 and they have a team. St. Louis is #61 and St. Paul is 64 to go with Minneapolis at #46.  Cities like San Antonio, Austin, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, Columbus and Charlotte have to be given some consideration.
2016 City 2016
rank estimate
1 New York 8,537,673
2 Los Angeles 3,976,322
3 Chicago 2,704,958
4 Houston 2,303,482
5 Phoenix 1,615,017
6 Philadelphia 1,567,872
7 San Antonio 1,492,510
8 San Diego 1,406,630
9 Dallas 1,317,929
10 San Jose 1,025,350
11 Austin 947,890
12 Jacksonville 880,619
13 San Francisco 870,887
14 Columbus 860,090
15 Indianapolis 855,164
16 Fort Worth 854,113
17 Charlotte 842,051
18 Seattle 704,352
19 Denver 693,060
20 El Paso 683,080
21 Washington 681,170
22 Boston 673,184
23 Detroit 672,795
24 Nashville 660,388
25 Memphis 652,717
26 Portland 639,863
27 Oklahoma City 638,367
28 Las Vegas 632,912
29 Louisville 616,261
30 Baltimore 614,664
31 Milwaukee 595,047
32 Albuquerque 559,277
33 Tucson 530,706
34 Fresno 522,053
35 Sacramento 495,234
36 Mesa 484,587
37 Kansas City 481,420
38 Atlanta 472,522
39 Long Beach 470,130
40 Colorado Springs 465,101
41 Raleigh 458,880
42 Miami 453,579
43 Virginia Beach 452,602
44 Omaha 446,970
45 Oakland 420,005
46 Minneapolis 413,651
47 Tulsa 403,090
48 Arlington 392,772
49 New Orleans 391,495
50 Wichita 389,902

Of course, I am biased toward Indianapolis, but in the past, MLB has felt that Indy was too close to Chicago and Cincinnati as each of those cities are approximately 2 hours away. Indy has been the home of the Indianapolis Indians, one of the most (if not the most) successful AAA franchises for over 50 years. I think Indy would support a MLB team.  It should at least be considered.

What do you think about changes in baseball and expansion?

Posted by Mark Timmons

We started LA Dodger Talk in 2001. This site is about giving another perspective outside of the average day-to-day reporting. We don’t do game recaps or such things — lots of sites do that well. I value sabermetrics, but don’t think they are the “end-all-be-all.”. This is where you should start your day as a Dodger Fan. Welcome! We’d like to hear your voice.

This article has 119 Comments

  1. I agree with changes have to be made for instance pitchers starting pitchers goes 8 innings in a 0-0 tie a relief pitcher comes in the team scores one run the reliever gets the win the picture received nothing only Innings pitched. It should be the starting pitcher gets the win the relief pitcher gets the save what do you think about this

  2. Is a team in Mexico now a dead issue???
    In between post op meds, I’ve been catching on the last couple weeks of M.T. & A.C.’s posts and all I can say is great work.
    Woulda, coulda, shouda with be our mantra till ST…

  3. A certain way to speed up and shorten the game. Not that I want that, but here’s a suggestion.
    When a runner comes into the game to pitch run, he doesn’t get to run down to second base to warm up. When a fielding change is made for defensive purposes, he doesn’t get a few fly balls or grounders hit to him before the game resumes. When a pitch hitter comes up, he doesn’t get a few pitches thrown to him to warm up. So, why does a relief pitcher get a certain amount of pitches to warm up, especially since he already did so in the bullpen?
    Make the warm up mound in the bullpen exactly the same as the one on the field. When the relief pitcher comes he ‘s ready to go and maybe gets one warm up pitch. Because of so many pitching changes and the fact that they are trying to speed up the game and make them shorter, this would certainly do both. Much more than the automatic walk.
    Just my idea. I love the game the way it is and hope the DH never happens in the National League.

  4. I have long felt that they should change the way they determine wins and losses for pitchers. Whoever gives up the loosing run should get the loss. For example: a starting pitcher gives up two runs and is taken out in the 7th trailing 2-0. The relief pitcher gives up 3 in the top of the 8th, making it 5-0. The home team scores 4 in the bottom of the 8th, but they lose 5-4. The loss should go to the relief pitcher who gave up the 3 runs in one inning rather than the starting pitcher who gave up 2 runs in 7 innings.

  5. While I am on a roll— Mark, the population chart that you included in your post distorts the actual situation. It only takes into account the population of the city itself and ignores the surrounding municipalities. For example: compare SF and Indy which are listed as having almost the same population, both in the 800,000 range. Actually, the Giants have a much larger population to draw from than does Indy. Some of those cities have a large metro population and others do not, so to get an accurate picture of the ability to support a baseball team they would have to list the population of the greater metro areas instead of the population of the city itself.

    1. Campy,

      Yes the Bay Area is much more densly populated but that can also be a detriment. In you are in Palo Alto or Vallejo, it might take you two hours to get to the ball park at rush hour. In Indy, you can be anywhere in 30 minutes!

      The Bay Area has about 4.6 million people while the Indy Metro Area has about 2.0 million which should be enough to suppport a team, especially in an area that has a fairy high income per capita and low unemployment.

      1. My point was not to say that Indy isn’t capable of suporting a team (they have the Colts), it was to say that the chart itself is misleading especially when it shows SF and Indy in such close proximity. Sorry that I seem to be picking on your hometown, should have chosen Columbus. Also it is misleading to put cities such as Oakland, Minneapolis (without St. Paul and all its suburbs) and Arlington all near the bottom of the list.

  6. 1. I agree that the DH is coming to the NL. I am generally a baseball purist, but I am also a realist and understand that the DH is not going away. I also agree that both leagues need to play under the same rules. I cannot see it happening before a new CBA, but who knows for sure.
    .
    2. The MLB Union will be pushing for expanded rosters, and will probably make this a key negotiation point in the next CBA. This is where the owners are going to have to be negotiating amongst themselves as the large market teams would have no problem with expansion, but the small market teams do not want another 2 players even at MLB minimum salaries. If you make the change, make it two players. Most teams would love to have a 3rd catcher at the end of the bench, and an additional pitcher for the games ever expanding use of specialists.
    .
    3. The only pitching visit limitation I can see in the foreseeable future is to limit the number of trips from the catcher to the mound. The number of trips McCann made to the mound in the WS was ridiculous. With the ever increasing use of pitching specialists, I cannot see the owners agreeing to make no mid inning pitching changes. And with the expected roster expansions in the pitching ranks, this will become even less likely. I can see a limit to the number of warmup pitches to 5 for incoming pitchers.
    .
    4. At an estimated 2.8 million, Toronto would slide into the number three slot behind Los Angeles. Pittsburgh is right at the St. Paul population, and Cincinnati is even less. Since Cincinnati has supported a professional baseball team since 1869, I think they have proven they will support a MLB team. St. Louis and Pittsburgh both have long standing support (from 1870’s).
    .
    Tampa has to move. They cannot support a ML team. I do not know why they keep fighting it. Tampa/St. Pete, Clearwater, and Bradenton are within a stone’s throw and they have successful Single A franchises which is what the population will support. The Florida State League is a good league and has good organizations. They are also the home to multiple spring training teams. Tampa/St. Pete has always been a Yankee town so it is hard for the Rays to gain a foothold.
    .
    Oakland plays in a horrible stadium surrounded by nothingness. They had a new site set up near Laney College in the East Bay where they hoped to open a 35,000 seat stadium in 2023. Unfortunately this plan, which was early in the design stages, was just shot down by the Peralta Community College District after strong opposition from the faculty and student body. There is no Plan B. There were rumors moving to San Jose (SF Giants said no), and to Fremont which has a ton of environmental issues and just was not a plausible location. IMO the only successful location anywhere in Oakland would be Jack London Square, on the Oakland waterfront with lots of restaurants, hotels, and SF Ferry. Any other choice outside of reincarnating Charles Finley, Oakland will continue to flounder.
    .
    I would not mind seeing the A’s come to Sacramento. I do not know if Sacramento would support a MLB team, but they have supported the River Cats, and very much supported them when they were the A’s AAA affiliate. But Sacramento is very much a Giants town, so an exodus from Northern California seems to be their best option. Their AAA team is now in Nashville, so maybe that is an option.
    .
    Other locations that will be considered are:
    Mexico City (MLB will want this to work)
    Montreal (They want this to work as well)
    San Antonio
    Charlotte
    Las Vegas
    .
    I will leave the capability of Indianapolis to Mark and Hawkeye. I do not know the Midwest very well.

  7. Population is a tricky thing, Las Vegas is ranked 28th above but that is not including the cities of North Las Vegas and Henderson which are contiguous. Clark County’s metro population is 2.17 million. The city also averages over 3 million tourist visits per month: what better city to take a road trip to see your team? San Diego is ranked at 8th and has always struggled with attendance. San Jose is ranked ahead of both SF and Oakland, maybe that is a good destination for the A’s.

    Purists hate the DH but younger fans love it, who wants to see pitchers hit? It has increased offense, prolonged careers and lets starters pitch deeper. My main problem is different rules for each league and since it’s staying it should be the same in both leagues. I am also not a fan of the double switch.

    Any restriction on relief pitchers should be batters faced, not outs. What if a guy can’t get anyone out and can’t be pulled? Have them face at least 2 or maybe 3 batters. Nothing is worse or takes longer than seeing 3 or more pitching changes in 1 inning.

    I am all for a pitch clock but also a batter clock. I am really tired of batters backing out and going through their rituals. Time to limit mound visits by catchers too, it was out of control by the Cubs and Astros in the post season. I have been to minor league games and it works well and improves the flow of the game.

  8. No to the DH!

    I can’t see baseball limiting the number of pitchers who pitch in an inning but can see baseball requiring that a pitcher who has been announced must pitch to at least one batter and that a hitter who has been announced must hit.

    With the expanded use of bullpens, I can see the rosters expanding.

    I can also see a limit on visits to the mound by a catcher or other player.

    Oakland has never really supported the A’s. I can see San Jose (maybe baseball forces the issue), Portland, Las Vegas. I live in the Sacramento area – we have an SMSA population of about 2.5 million, but I don’t think that Sac can support an MLB team.

    As to expansion, there are too many “small market teams” who have trouble scraping together payroll – really Miami wants a payroll of $90 MM? That’s a wealthy city. Who needs another small town team that will have trouble competing?

    1. Living in a Portland suburb, I highly doubt the city could/would support an MLB team. I would certainly enjoy it, but the city is strictly Blazers/Timbers country. Vegas seems to be a logical choice after reading Vegas Dodger’s comments. The Las Vegas Rays has a nice ring to it.

  9. Screw the DH! I could make 5 or 6 suggestions that would help pace of play without screwing with the game. Their proposals will do nothing to increase viewership of baseball just diminish how much real baseball fans enjoy the game. I’m all for Montreal getting the Expos back.

    Now, to the real subject. Chris Camello tweeted out that the Dodgers were pushing hard for Stanton now. Trade not imminent but due to how complicated a deal would be due to contracts and players but the Dodgers are in. Camello broke JT’s and Kenley’s signings almost down to the $ about 24 hrs before the talking heads like Rosenthal.

  10. 1. Fix September rules
    2. One foot in batters box
    3 no pitch clock-fine repeat offenders
    4. Goodbye to God Bless America
    5. Less commercials between innings once game goes to extra inning. Sponsors have gotten their money’s worth.
    6. AUTOMTED STRIKE ZONE!!!!!

    Expansion will increase offense like it always has in the past.

    1. #6 is the best and most needed change. It is frustrating to watch a game on TV when they show the strike zone, and see pitch after pitch missed by the ump. In my opinion the umps are really bad and it has such an impact on the game.

      1. Definitely a couple reasons for #6. Hitters won’t be able to step out of box and complain, but also accuracy. I think today’s home plate umps do a terrible job.

      2. Have to agree there, they miss a LOT of pitches and are not consistent. It changes pitching and hitting patterns and affects outcomes. Look how many plays are overturned by replay, especially on tag plays and at 1B. Since every game is televised somewhere the technology is there now to implement it. I agree strongly on #2 also, keep one foot in the box between pitches!

  11. The expansion Las Vegas Knights (hockey) are averaging 17,833 per game in attendance, 99% of capacity. They are supported by the corporate community (casinos) who buy luxury suites for their high rollers and VIPs. The AT&T Arena was privately funded by MGM resorts and sits on their property. It will also work perfectly for basketball.

    The new Raiders Stadium had $750 out of $1.9 B publicly funded but it comes from the room tax fund that also paid for the LVCC (Convention Center) expansion and even a freeway improvement project getting cars into and out of the strip corridor off I-15 Fwy from the south (LA) UNLV football will also share the stadium and it will get a major bowl game each year. It is being built on land behind Mandalay Bay owned by MGM that has Fwy offramps on both sides.

    A new domed stadium for baseball would need to be built, similar to Chase Field in Phoenix. The advantage baseball has is the 81 regular season home games per year instead of 8 for pro football and 6 for college; 41 for the NBA and 38 for hockey. The funding formula used for the Raiders would work for a baseball stadium, casinos are on board, which means the state is on board (gaming taxes, property taxes and sales taxes from resorts account for more than 50% of the state’s budget) I believe it is just a matter of time before Las Vegas has every major sport like Phoenix does. Phoenix is a much bigger market at #5 but does not have the advantage of tourist visits and corporate sponsorship that Las Vegas enjoys or the huge room tax fund. The facilities are also being built close to the strip corridor benefiting both local and tourist access.

  12. I would think Mexico City and Montreal would be the two cities MLB would like to see awarded franchises.

  13. While the Stanton/Ohtani saga continues, the Chicago Cubs signed Tyler Chatwood to be their #4 at 3 years $38M. I think this will turn out to be very good for the Cubs. Chatwood improves the team over John Lackey. Since returning from his second TJ surgery, his metrics away from Coors are significantly better than they were at Coors. For the last two years – Home – 6.07 ERA and 21 HRs; Away – 2.57 ERA and 14 HR’s. With the Cubs, the most he will have to pitch in Colorado will be one game per regular season. The Cubs could look ahead and move the rotation around so he may not have to pitch the 1 game. Chatwood turns 28 next week.
    .
    They still need to replace Arrieta, but with Lester (35), Hendricks (28), Quintana (29), and Chatwood (28), that could be a formidable #1 – #4 if they do not do anything else. They will find a #5, but they still have very little else to fall back on. They do not have anyone in their farm that is ready to make the jump. They always have Montgomery to fall back on.

  14. Add MLB baseball to Portland and Las Vegas (I would like that) and realign teams both at division level and league level. Reduce games played from 162 to 154. Reduce travel miles. Complete the WS in October. Put teams located in western half of US in the NL and eastern half teams in AL.
    .
    Definitely electronically called strikes and DH in both leagues. Reduce time between innings and pitcher substitutions. Max number of pitchers in a game limited to 4 . Stop reviewing plays where a player might have come off the bag for a half a second.

    1. Dee Gordon plus another $1M in bonus pool money. They now have the most bonus funds of the seven teams in on Ohtani. It looks like the M’s want to move Gordon to the OF. It is possible that he could be traded again.
      .
      The return to the Marlins is RHP Nick Neidert. Nick is a good pitcher; a legit mid to top rotation prospect. He was the Mariners #2 propsect. He played part of the year in AA as a 20 year old. He would have been the California League ERA leader if he pitched 8 more innings at Modesto. His ERA was 2.76 in 104.1 IP in the very hitter friendly Cal League. He was the Cal League Pitcher of the Year. He will be in the Marlins rotation sometime in 2019.
      .
      They also received the M’s #7 prospect, SS Chris Torres (20). He is a defensive whiz with a strong arm. He needs to hit, but if he does develop he will be a very good player. He is a pure lottery pick.
      .
      The third player is RHP Robert Dugger (22). He pitched well in a starting role in the Midwest League, but not as well as a reliever in the California League.
      .
      Overall this was a good trade for both teams. The M’s really wanted the international bonus pool money, and can absorb the Gordon contract. They can also trade him and try to recoup another prospect. If they get Ohtani because of the international bonus pool, it will turn out to be great for them. The Marlins get a very solid pitching prospect, a lottery pick SS, and an organizational depth pitcher.

  15. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe that the NL is the only place where the DH is not used, both domestically and internationally, pro and amateur. If it’s what the vast majority of fans want, and it’s what’s they’re most familiar with, then I can’t imagine why baseball wouldn’t adopt it as the defacto standard, everywhere.

    Electronic strike zone? YES, YES, YES. And if fans like offense, then providing the hitter with a greater degree of certainty as to whether a pitch is a strike or a ball, will accomplish that.

    I saw that the Jose Abreu might be available. Lack of knowledge about Abreu makes me uncertain that he’s a player they should pursue. However, he is a right-handed power bat, and Cody Bellinger could play left field. I’m not suggesting the Dodgers do this, since I know almost nothing about his defense compared to lefty throwing, G G caliber Cody Bellinger. Just thought that given Bellinger’s versatility, something like this, with Abreu or another player, could be considered.

    Of course, if the Dodgers get Stanton, fuhgeddaaboutit.

  16. Interesting read from YardBarker about possible moves coming at next week’s Winter Meetings.
    They have no more insight than we do, but they had fun with their predictions.

    1. Ohtani to the Padres – Probably a pretty good prediction. But I wonder what they would have said last week before he nixed NYY. Seattle is looking pretty good here as well.
    2. JD Martinez to re-sign with DBacks – Highly unlikely. They need to keep whatever payroll flexibility they have for Pollock next year and Goldschmidt the year after. I think Boston or Toronto are more likely landing spots for JD.
    3. Cubs – Will sign Wade Davis, Greg Holland, and Alex Cobb. There is no way they will sign both Davis and Holland. Probably try to re-sign Davis. I can see them going after Alex Cobb who pitched for Joe Maddon in Tampa.
    4. Cardinals – Avisail Garcia from the ChiSox. This would be a good move for the Cardinals, and with their surplus of good young pitching the White Sox should get some more young studs in their farm. They are not going to get Stanton. This makes too much sense not to happen.
    5. Indians – Andrew McCutcheon. I see the need by Cleveland. They need a RH OF (preferably CF) to replace Austin Jackson. The Pirates believe they have a legit shot at the playoffs, and they have held on to McCutcheon for this long, they might as well ride it out until the trade deadline. It is more likely that the Tribe re-sign Jackson.
    6. Astros – Zach Britton – I think this happens. The Stros almost pulled it off last year at the trade deadline. The trade was made, just waiting approval from Angelos who ultimately said no. Learning that they are listening on trade deals for Machado, it sort of sends the message that the O’s may not have the ability to get the starting pitching to compete this year, so getting something in return for Britton makes sense.
    7. Stanton to Giants – Now that the Dodgers are engaging in what appears to be serious talks with the Marlins, Stanton is not going to agree to waive his no-trade to SF unless the Dodgers just walk away from it. But I am starting to get the impression that this is going to happen for the Dodgers.
    8. Dodgers – Gerrit Cole – This would give the Dodgers a legit #2, but for the same reason that I do not believe McCutcheon will be traded this winter, Cole is not going anywhere without a significant overpay. All bets are off at the trade deadline if the Pirates are out of it. I also think the Dodgers will be happy to keep Hill/Wood at #2/#3 until Buehler and Urias are ready. Cole would only make sense if the Dodgers did not believe they could extend Clayton after the 2018 season (assuming he opts out).

    1. 1. Agree with you. Someone should warn Ohtani about how dreadful travel is from Seattle.
      2. Agree. I think Martinez is going to Boston.
      3. I think the Cubs sign Cobb and will try to get Davis back too, but certainly not all three.
      4. Agree they aren’t getting Stanton. I have no opinion on Garcia going there though.
      5. I think McCutcheon is getting moved to SF or somewhere else.
      6. Britton is a tough one. Both the Dodgers and Astros thought they had deals for him last year. Angelos is the key factor like you said.
      7. I think the Dodgers get Mike, I mean Giancarlo Stanton.
      8. I don’t think so. I also think he’s a tad overrated, but his name has been out there for quite some time now.

      1. Hawkeye

        I think Stanton is one of those, one in a lifetime things, for the Dodgers.

        We have needed a big right hand bat, since Hanley was let go, and Kemp was traded.

        And Stanton is no liability on defense, and he is a team player.

        I do think we need a top starting pitcher more, but I think the Dodgers can’t pass this chance by..

        1. I don’t think Gordon will be the same player in Seattle.

          And if they are really going to try him in centerfield, that will make it worse for Gordon.

          1. It all depends on his attitude. If he acts like Chris Taylor it could work. I remember the Dodgers had him play some winter ball in CF and were going to move him until they realized Guerrero was a flop at 2nd.
            ~
            You’re probably correct about needing pitching more but bringing Stanton home at a little more reasonable price seems like something they shouldn’t pass up. He will put a lot of butts in seats and sell a lot of jerseys.

  17. 1. I can tell you reason Ohtani should go to any of the teams. I have no idea…
    2. JD Martinez will go to the Cardinals.
    3. Madden wants Cobb and I would not put it by Theo to sign 2 closers.
    4. Martinez is a better deal for the Cards – they keep their prospects. He only costs money.
    5. Cutch to SF – I hope so.
    6. Britton will not be traded until the Orioles fall out of the race… and they will.
    7. It’s beginning to look a lot like Christmas.
    8. Cole? He scares me.

    Speaking of Christmas, my neighbor two houses down has spent over $100K on Christmas lights:
    https://www.facebook.com/LRLights/videos/166543800752275/

    1. 1. I think Ohtani signs with Seattle
      2. JD Martinez will go to the highest bidder.
      3. Cobb to the Cubs
      4. Rather see the Dodgers go after Ozuna and Yelich.
      5. The giants sign Stanton, maybe, but at what cost?
      6. Orioles will keep Britton for now.
      7. Maybe the Angles would be a good place for Gonzalez, along with money and Edwin Rios.
      8. Cole is not a #2 rotation pitcher and I think he is way overrated.

    2. Hawkeye

      I agree with everything you said about Stanton!

      We do need a top starting pitcher more, especially for the post season, but the Dodgers might not get a chance to get a player like Stanton again.

      And we were never going to get Harper and Machado, and we might get Stanton with a better deal.

      The fact he is a hometown guy, and he is only one of two players in baseball today, that can hit a ball out of Dodger Stadium, makes him a big draw!

      About Gordon, I didn’t think he could handle the pressure of playing in LA, so I can’t see him handling the pressure, of making a position change, like the Mariners want to do, and moving away from home too.

      I know Seattle isn’t LA, but it is not Gordon’s hometown, and I think the will make a big difference with Gordon.

      But could you imagine Stanton in our line up?

      1. I am all in, for the electronic strike zone too!

        These umpires, and especially in the post season, can make to big of a difference in a game, and in a series.

        These home plate umpires, have far to much power, in the post season!

  18. Now being reported that Stanton would accept trades to Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, and Astros, but not the Giants or Cards. Thought the Yankees were supposed to be out of it. Same old story, you don’t know what to believe.

    If the Dodgers get Stanton and everyone remains healthy, they would be incredibly formidable. Pitching would also be helped, given the number of runs they would have to work with.

  19. Let’s end this thing, Derek Jeter.

    Here’s my final offer. You have 12 hours to take it or leave it:

    The Dodgers send Verdugo, Diaz, Alvarez and Pederson to the Marlins for Giancarlo Stanton. The Marlins also take Kazmir and A-Gon.

    12-hours!

    1. With an outfield of Pederson, Verdugo, and Diaz the Marlins could trade Ozuna and Yelich. That keeps the fire sale going.
      .
      I would rather have Stanton in RF and I would like to move the human battery ram to another team to protect whomever plays CF for the Dodgers so replace Puig for one of your outfielders listed and save even more money and I could live with your trade.

      1. I have shied away from predicting great things for Pederson and instead have just said that I like him while pointing out his accomplishments. But Joc is more than capable of hitting 40+ home runs. The Dodgers with Pederson, Bellinger, and Stanton could have three players with 40+ home runs. That would be cool.

        1. Joc was great in the World Series, but I think he is always going to be “all-or-nothing.” He is capable of hitting 40 HR, but I wonder at whay BA?

          I like Joc. He is a great kid and it looks like he is toning up his body this winter. I don’t think Puig is going anywhere and he did not kill anyone last year, so if Stanton is acquired, there is no place for Joc. Toles and Kike would be our extra OF with Stanton in LF, Taylor is CF and Puig in RF.

    2. a little high in prospect cost but probably pretty close. the guy was mvp after all.

      biggest loss out of that group might be diaz, but adding a stud rh of would mitigate that risk considerably.

      the money seems fair to me

      i’m guessing our FO wouldn’t part with three top prospects though

  20. All the sports writers have opinions and none of them know anything. I am not talking about anyone on this site.

  21. To Dodgers:
    Stanton and Yelich.
    .
    To Marlins:
    Gonzalez ($21.5 million), Erisbel Arruebarrena ($6.5 million in 2018), Kazmir ($16.7 million in ’18), McCarthy ($10 million in ’18, conditional option of $5 million-$8 million in ’19), Ryu ($7 million in ’18). Verdugo, Toles, Alvarez, Diaz.
    .
    To Angels from Dodgers:
    Forsythe
    .
    To Angels from Marlins:
    Gonzales plus $16M
    .
    To Dodgers from Angels:
    Cron
    .
    To Orioles from Dodgers:
    Grandal and Santana
    .
    To Dodgers from Orioles :
    Britten.
    .
    CF Yelich
    3B Turner
    SS Seager
    RF Stanton
    1B Bellinger
    2B Taylor
    LF Pederson
    C Barnes

      1. Oops, Puig should have been included in the package to the Marlins.
        .
        Who would you like to swap out for Santana?

        1. Puig back with Mattingly? Not happening. The Marlins are also trying to shed payroll. They aren’t taking on any contracts that the Dodgers don’t force on them. Puig’s 27th Birthday was yesterday. I’m not dealing him.

          Giancarlo is in the driver’s seat and the Dodgers are riding shotgun.

          1. Hawkeye

            Everyone back east, don’t want the Dodgers to get Stanton!

            Everytime anyone brings up Stanton, is holding all of the Cards, it drives some of these guys crazy, on the MLB Channel.

            Did you see Mad Dog today, it is obvious he doesn’t want the Dodgers, to get Stanton!

            But if Stanton does go to the Giants or the Cards, there is no guarantee that those two teams, will make the post season, in the next couple of years.

            And maybe Stanton likes living in Miami, and he rather stay with the Marlins, if he isn’t going to the Dodgers.

          2. I missed Mad Dog. Of course no one out east wants the Dodgers to get Stanton. They hate LA, but he is holding all the cards with that deal.

    1. Why would the Marlins trade Stanton at $25M and assume $61.7M? They are looking to get under $90M, and this is no way gives them that ability. I still do not believe there is a prayer that A-Gon is going anywhere. He has a full no-trade. The Dodgers are not going to give him more money to accept a trade to a city/team he has zero desire to go to. He is going to take his $21.5M and stay in LA. Nobody wants Arruebarrena. The Marlins do not want one year of McCarthy and Ryu. They are rebuilding. They want prospects. The best the Dodgers can expect is Kazmir for 2018, and maybe some additional annual relief if Stanton does not opt out after 2020.
      .
      I would be shocked to see Yelich traded by the Marlins. At $7M he is not a salary concern, and is team controlled thru 2021 with a club option for 2022. They are more likely to build around Yelich and Realmuto than trade either. IMO, Ozuna will go before Yelich, and the Cardinals seem very interested in Ozuna. I also do not see any upside in Yelich over our other three LH left fielders who can play CF. Either a true CF or leave Chris Taylor there.
      .
      The Angels are going to trade Cron and get Forsythe and A-Gon in return? I wouldn’t trade Forsythe straight up for Cron.
      .
      I would trade Grandal but only for prospects, and I agree with Mark, I would not include Santana for one year of Britton at $12M+.
      .
      I agree with the others, Puig is not going to Miami as long as Mattingly is there.

      1. ….Why would the Marlins trade Stanton at $25M and assume $61.7M? They are looking to get under $90M, and this is no way gives them that ability….
        .
        It’s $61.7M vs. $259M. They get to $90M in 2019 instead of 2018 and do it with a better team in 2018.

  22. It looks like the Dodgers holding the Marlins hostage to Stanton isn’t going to work. I wouldn’t be surprised if the don’t acquire either Stanton or Ohtani. I think I would settle for Yelich or Inciarte, a durable RHSP and resigning both Watson and Morrow.

  23. Many Dodger fans have said that the team needs a #2 starting pitcher. I believe the Dodgers already have that #2 in Wood/Hill. What I have said the Dodgers do need is a legit innings eater at a reasonable cost. I do not care if that pitcher is #2 or #5. Maeda and Ryu are currently the #4/#5, but neither one qualifies as a potential innings eater. It is also 4 LHSP and 1 RHSP. That should also be more balanced.
    .
    I have previously asked what defines a #2, and who should be targeted by the Dodgers for their #2, and would he be better than Wood/Hill? The only names I can remember seeing are Yu Darvish, Chris Archer, and Shohei Ohtani. Ohtani would be a Dodger if that is what he wants. I am sure the Dodgers put on their best dog and pony show, but Ohtani is going to decide based on HIS criteria. Right now that seems to be either the Mariners or Padres, and not the Dodgers. I am sure that can change, but there isn’t any pot that the Dodgers can sweeten to further persuade Ohtani. The Dodgers will not pay $150M and 6 years for Darvish, and yet somebody will.
    .
    Chris Archer is the other name that continues to surface. I do not believe that Archer is a better pitcher than Wood or Hill, but I do believe he will pitch more innings. Archer has had back to back seasons with an ERA north of 4.00. His career ERA is 3.63 and career WHIP is 1.21. His GO/AO ratio is 1.02. What makes Archer in such high demand is that he dependable and has such a team friendly contract with team control up to 4 years including 2 club options ($6.25M, $7.5M, $8.25M option, $8.25M option).
    .
    And yet when Yardbarkers suggested that the Dodgers may look at Gerrit Cole, that suggestion was not as well received as a potential Chris Archer. Cole and Archer are the same pitcher. They both throw 4 seam fastballs 95-96. Archer has a slightly tighter spin rate, but a slightly higher exit velocity. Cole did pitch 200+ innings but had a disappointing ERA of 4.26, with a previous high of 3.88. He has a career ERA of 3.50, career WHIP of 1.22, and GO/AO ratio of 1.22. He is more of a ground ball pitcher than Archer.
    .
    Cole’s disappointed elevated ERA is undoubtedly due to 31 HR’s allowed. That is a very high number for one year, especially considering that he allowed only 36 in the previous 4 years combined. Contrast that with Archer’s 27 HR’s last year and 76 in his previous 4 years combined. Both pitchers’ best year was 2015.
    .
    Cole 208 IP, 2.60 ERA, 1.091 WHIP, 4.59 SO/W
    Archer 212 IP, 3.23 ERA, 1.137 WHIP, 3.82 SO/W
    .
    Cole is 2 years younger. He has two more arbitration years. 2018 is estimated to be $7.5M. He has a higher ceiling than Archer. Cole is from Orange County and went to school at UCLA, after turning down the Yankees who drafted him in the 1st round 3 years earlier. Both Archer and Cole have impeccable character. It would be fun to watch Cole pitch against his Brother-in-law (Brandon Crawford). There really is not much difference between the two, so if Archer qualifies as a #2, so does Cole. If Cole is not a #2, then neither is Archer. The prospect cost to acquire either pitcher will be untouchable.
    .
    So if not Darvish/Ohtani/Archer/Cole, who can the Dodgers get to be a #2? That pitcher is a year away…Walker Buehler. Julio Urias will probably be a #3 in 2019 making Wood/Hill the new #4/#5. Hill could be replaced by Maeda, Ryu will be gone.
    .
    What top of the rotation pitcher who is both available and a better pitcher than either Wood or Hill that the Dodgers can and will go after?

    1. AC

      I think we need a top starting pitcher, for the post season!

      I don’t see us winning it all, with only Kershaw.

      He has had to much trouble pitching two good starts, in these play offs, series!

        1. I think Gerritt Cole would be a nice addition, but the cost would be high.

          While I agree with you about Wood & Hill, (I think they are a lot better than they get credit for) – there is that perception that they’re not shut down pitchers and the addition of a “Don Drysdale” type wouldn’t hurt. However, as you look at the teams that might be in a trade mode, there is definitely not much out there that is super exciting, other than perhaps, Cole, Archer and DeGrom (though I doubt that he’s available). Maybe the Dodgers take a flyer on Chris Tillman and he makes a decent comeback. One thing is clear – – #2 starting pitchers don’t grow on trees. They do, however, grow within your minor league system. I think that we have a lot to be excited about within our system, though I admit to viewing the Dodger prospects in the same light that I look at my grand kids, – – – yours maybe cute, but mine are a lot cuter. It would be nice to have Buehler come to camp prepared to blow everyone away.

          I think that Chatwood was a decent get for the Cubs and I also liked the D’Backs trade for Boxberger. Not sure what like players remain available, but unless there is an under the radar type player, I just don’t see the Dodgers making any significant moves this off-season.

        2. AC

          I don’t know, because there are not many really good starting pitchers, out there.

          And it looks like we won’t be able to get one at the trade deadline, for the next couple years.

          I didn’t know Buehler was that close yet, so I didn’t think about him.

          Because no one has really talked about him much, after the end of the season.

          But I hope he will make more of a difference, this year.

          As you know, I have no problem with Wood, and Hill!

          1. MJ,

            Buehler will join the rotation at some point this year, but next year he should be in a position to dominate. His command needs to be fine tuned, which he will work on at OKC to start. Each time he moved up, he got hit hard and then understood where the command needed to be at that level. He has a great arm with 3 plus pitches and a fourth that is considered at least average, and is very baseball smart.
            .
            Demeter is absolutely correct that top of the rotation pitchers are not generally acquired but are developed. Pitchers like Chris Sale do not become available very often, and when they do they are very expensive to acquire. The Dodgers now have Buehler, Urias, White, May, Alvarez as potential top of the rotation pitchers. 4 of those could be in the rotation as early as sometime in 2019 (Dustin May a little longer). Not that they will, but they could. That is also waiting to see the development of Morgan Cooper and James Marinen. Oaks, Sborz, Sopko, Ferguson, along with Stripling and Stewart are all back of the rotation types, but they count as well. With those pitchers, I like the Dodgers odds of getting 2-3 top of the rotation pitchers to join up with Kershaw and Wood.
            .
            I agree that it would be nice to find a sure thing for the WS, but I do not think one is available. Maybe it is Cole or Archer. I like them both, but I would not be willing to trade multiple top 10 prospects to find out. The same is true for Jacob deGrom, who I like a little more. Maybe Demeter has something with Chris Tillman. Maybe he would consider a one year heavy incentive laden contract.
            .
            Jhoulys Chacin is not a legit top of the rotation pitcher, but he could be a decent #5 who could eat innings giving the relievers a rest and time for Buehler to develop. Chacin is projected to sign 2 years at $14M. That is less than Cole is projected to make and about what Archer will make, and Chacin had a better year with a lesser team. That could give the Dodgers 3 LHSP and 2 RHSP, and make Ryu available in a trade. That could be a wash salary wise. Once Buehler is ready, Chacin can go into the bullpen…which Ryu cannot do.

    2. Pretty sensible proposals, unlike some of the wild things I have seen tossed around. There are some players I like and Faz may like, but getting an acceptable trade done is a different animal. The team may do a few of these things:
      1) Trade one of Joc, Verdugo or Toles. IMO Joc has the most current value and Verdugo the most upside.
      2) Trade Grandal to address other needs and get a ML ready cheap backup until prospects are ready.
      3) Trade Ryu or McCarthy. Ryu is in a contract year, McCarthy has a team option making him 2 years at $15 M.
      4) Move Font, Thompson, Avilan, Fields or anyone out of options they don’t feel will be on the 25 man initially.
      5) Sign one of Morrow or Watson or shift to Faz mode and find someone.
      6) Bring in a RH OF bat and a LH utility IF.

      They probably will not:
      1) Find a taker for AGon or Kazmir or Arruebarrena, keep them or eat contract. Team needs roster spots.
      2) Trade Puig. He has 1 year left on his contract and 1 arbitration year.
      3) Spend much on another starter unless they move both Ryu and Mac. None if they sign Ohtani.
      4) Blow through the luxury tax by much if any.

      Hopefully the Stanton and Ohtani drama is wrapped up by the weekend before the winter meetings begin.

      1. AC

        Thanks for your response, I had no idea, we had that many possible top starting pitchers.

        I guess deep down I was talking about a number one, for the post season next year, if we make it.

        And you probably know why I was thinking about a top starter, for the post season.

        Thanks again!

    3. I do not like Archer any better than I loke Cole. I would not spend the money and I agree about Hill/Wood with Buehler & Urias in 2019.

      I would be bein with adding Chacin this year on the “right’ deal.

    1. Boy did I miss on that one. This is probably a good match. Anaheim is a small market (no matter what Moreno says, Anaheim is not LA). They have Trout to be the face of the team, and Ohtani probably slots in as their #1. The Angels are as much of a possibility to utilize a 6 man rotation as any team. Ohtani will get to hit. There is no downside for either team or player. Now the investigation begins.

      1. It would be a good time for the Dodgers to get that TV deal figured out because more people will be tuning into Anaheim unfortunately.

        1. The TV deal is not too shabby. It throws a TON of money to the Dodgers.

          How would you suggest they “figure it out”

      1. Bluto

        In Southern California Charter is the only provider, that carries the Dodgers!

        And on anything else, the Dodgers are blacked out in Southern California.

  24. As long as Ohtani did not go the Giants, Padres or D-Bags, I don’t case, He’s not a winner in my opinion anyway.

    Cross that off the list!

    1. I don’t get the 2nd half of your statement. He joins a team with Trout, Upton, Pujols, and others. You’re sounding like Yankee and Red Sox fans. The Angels won 80 games last year. They will probably add Moustakas and one of the top closers now. He’s not about the money. He’s all about baseball. It will be interesting to see how the deal is structured. Dan O’Dowd mentioned awhile back that nothing stops teams from adding performance bonuses to the deal. That’s how the Dodgers had a shot. I have to imagine that Seattle pivots hard to Darvish now.

    1. It looks like things are starting to heat up.

      Iannetta got a nice deal.

      Stanton to the Dodgers soon.

      The can’t let Arte have more stars!

      Just get ‘er done.

  25. Trading Puig, unless he brings back a kings ransom, would be a mistake. There’s a lot to like about Joc Pederson, and just as much to dislike. Sure, Joc has 40 Hr potential, but so does Puig. After his surge in power this past year to 28, I see Puig as having the potential to hit 30-40 bombs. If Puig builds on his 2017 accomplishments as he enters his prime years, I have little doubt that he has a lot more to show us. And to top it off, he’s the best defensive right fielder in the game.

    If the Dodgers get Stanton or even another right handed hitting power bat (e.g., Ozuna), then there lineup (with Puig in it) will be extremely formidable. There would be no place to pitch around anyone. In fact, as much as I would like to have Stanton, it could easily turn out that Ozuna is preferable.

    And based on the stuff I’ve been reading lately, Mark may well be right about Ohtani.

  26. If the Dodgers trade for Stanton, sign Chacin and re-sign Morrow, I would have a Merry Christmas.

  27. Hey, no one mentioned that Scott Barlow was now a KC Royal and that he has a shot at their rotation.

    1. Well you beat me to it. I hope he gets a real chance and can crack the rotation. I have called my relatives in KC and told them they better treat Scott kindly.

  28. Dodgers are Stanton’s top choice. But they not only have luxury tax issue but could move into debt-service issue. These issues plus knowledge of being top choice would affect any offer.

    Per Heyman

    1. Yankees are also dead set on re-setting their luxury tax penalty. Cubs don’t have much of a farm anymore and would have to deal from their core group and need to add a SP even more than the Dodgers and they need to replace Davis still. Houston has a lot of salary space available and a nice farm, but need more pitching than anything else.

  29. Ohtani picked the Angels, because he thought he had a good bond with the Angels.

    It must be because the Angel’s bench coach, speaks Japanese.

    I can’t think about any other type of bond the Angels could give Ohtani.

    1. Eppler was with the Yankees when Ohtani was coming out of high school. The Yankees were one of the teams on him back then. I think LA was always his preferred destination. The Angels were the only team to promise him that he could hit every day from what I read.

  30. Chris Camello tweeted that the Dodgers are willing to move any prospect not named Buehler. The hang up is getting Miami to accept back salary like Kazmir or McCarthy. The Cardinals were willing to take on $300 million worth of salary. You have to think this gets done at the Winter meetings. I wouldn’t necessarily give them 12 hours to decide but the Dodgers can put together different offers where Kazmir, McCarthy, Gonzalez, and Arruburena are moved. If I were the Marlins I would take McCarthy. They only have to pay him $10 million next year and he can pitch. He also has a $5 million club option for 2019 due to his injuries with the Dodgers. As much as I didn’t like the McCarthy deal he’s worth $15 million over the next two years for a cost cutting team like Miami.

    1. Unless I can be shown otherwise, I have to postulate that Chris Camello has as much credibility as my imaginary friend Barney.

      1. He broke the JT and Kenley Jansen signings yrs & money well before the professional talking heads. A good 24 hrs ahead of them.
        ~
        He just reported his sources saying Alvarez is being offered as the top prospect. Yankees are ahead of the Dodgers. Also trying to move contracts like Ellsbury, Headley, etc.

        1. So much so Rosenthal had to publicly admit Camello broke the story not him and congratulated him personally. He does media out of LA and has sources close to or with the team.

          1. I believe that zero percent.
            .
            I just checked, every “scoop” Camello has on Stanton comes after someone else reports it.
            .
            Let me introduce you to my friend Barney.

    1. Hawkeye

      I will be upset if the Yankees get Stanton!

      It is obvious the Yankees know, they won’t get a deal like this that often, because the Yankees are in almost the exact same financial situation, we are in!

      This front office is going to let one year, get in the way, of getting a player like Stanton?

      It sure didn’t tand the Yankees long, to know this is a good deal!

  31. This is one time I wish I was wrong. I was actually looking forward to Stanton in the Dodgers lineup. I have not seen the list of prospects but it sounds like the Yankees sent Starling Castro and “good” not top prospects to Miami for Stanton.

    1. AC

      The Yankees are almost in the exact situation we are in, when it comes to the payroll, so I am going to be upset if the Yankees get Stanton!

      It makes me feel like our front office can’t see a good deal by today’s standards, because how often will the Dodgers have a chance, to get a player like Stanton?

      And if this happens, that is why some people think this front office doesn’t know how to handle a big market team.

      And it didn’t take the Yankees long, to go for this, it is an obvious move that the Dodgers could handle just as easy as the Yankees can, but he wanted to come here!

      This will give the Yankees the two biggest power hitters, in baseball, and we could have had Stanton and Bellinger!

      1. Budgets aren’t set by the Front Office MJ.
        .
        In all seriousness, this just sucks. There’s no way around that feeling after losing out on the reigning NL MVP who wanted to come home to play for the team he grew up cheering for. And why? Probably money, as the Dodgers appeared fearful of the magnitude of Stanton’s contract and how it would have impacted their ability to stay reasonably in range of the luxury tax. It’s disappointing.
        .
        Yes, the Dodgers will be fine. They still return a great team and basically nothing they do this off-season will change the fact that 2018 looks promising. However, a trade for Stanton made enough sense for a team on the cusp that Dustin backed a hypothetical deal not once, but twice. Now after losing out on both Stanton and Shohei Ohtani (who went to the Angels), the Dodgers are left licking their wounds and figuring out how to approach the rest of the off-season.
        .
        Who knows? Maybe the Dodgers have something else up their sleeve instead or maybe in a few years the fears about Stanton’s contract becoming an albatross will come to fruition and we’ll crack jokes about how emo we all were about this, but right now it sure just feels like a huge missed opportunity to significantly upgrade the Dodgers.

  32. Let’s not criticize until we see it all play out. I wanted Stanton, but always had in my mind the fear that taking on a player for 10 years, who has an injury history, was in itself a huge risk in spite of the potential upside. Given luxury tax ramifications the overall cost was potentially gong to be about a half Billion dollars, not $295 Million.

    For now the Dodgers still have all of their prospects, and the flexibility to add on significant pieces. Maybe they’re considering a deal for Ozuna or someone like him, and myriad other moves that remain possible given that they’re not committing a large part of their payroll to just one player.

    Maybe when it’s all over I’ll be profoundly disappointed, and maybe not. I still have a lot of faith in FAZ, and know that if they have a plan A, they also have plans stretching a lot deeper into the alphabet. For now I am holding my judgment until I see this thing play out.

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