How Do Trades Happen?

So, when a General Manager makes a trade, they automatically go to their list of MLB’s TOP 100 Prospects and then check Baseball America’s TOP 100 Prospects.  Oh, and then they check all the articles that Keith Law, John Sickels,  Ben Badler and Will Carroll write about the player or players and then maybe the conversation goes something like this:

“Hey wait, the Dodgers offered us a #29 and a #36 prospect and you guys didn’t offer us a player in the TOP 100.  We are going with the Dodgers offer.”

If you believe it works anything like that, I would like to talk to your about this bridge that I have.  It was only driven on by a little old lady to church on Sunday. Making trades works nothing like that at all.  You see, baseball teams have scouts, consultants and special advisors who collaborate with the GM as to what they think of any certain player’s talent level and how they fit with that team’s needs.

I did not think much of the prospects the D-Bags traded to the Tigers for JD Martinez, but here’s what we don’t know: Maybe the Tigers valued those players a lot higher that I did, BA did and the MLB Top 100 List did.  Maybe they believed those players filled positions within their organization better than other offers.  Maybe the Dodgers didn’t even offer anything for JD Martinez, because they did not want to upset the team chemistry… after all the team is on a holy tear like nothing we have ever seen for quite some time.

And… while I would like to think it’s not true, it seems pretty obvious that when teams are dealing with the Dodgers they often ask more, because of the Dodgers ability to pay and depth of the farm system.  Then there’s the fact that trade rumors are often, just that.  Sometimes rumors are floated by the selling team to drive the price up.  Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear… unless of course, you hear it here!

As AC emphasized yesterday, this team was built over the winter so as not to have to overpay at the trade deadline.  As fans, we like the excitement of trades, but the fact remains – even though a lock-down lefty would be nice, it may not be essential and it also is becoming clear, that Andrew Friedman has no intention of trading his top prospects.  They won’t all pan out, but that’s why you horde them.

Rants and Raves

  • Does anyone still doubt (as The Truth Hurts Preaches) The Church of Christ Taylor?  I love him at leadoff – .307 BA/.381 OB%/.902 OPS/12-15 in SB/11 HR.  He’s for real!
  • Don’t look at Kike’s batting average as much as you look at what he does and when.
  • Ross Stripling looks like he has his release point back.
  • Maybe Dayton becomes that lock-down lefty.
  • Colorado and AZ are both 11 and 11.5 games back.  Neither has the depth to contend and while the Wild Card is within reach, I would not assume that either team gets it.
  • Look, Ned Colletti is a good guy and did some good for the Dodgers, but if he was so good, how come no one is lined up to sign him to be their GM?  I stand by my analysis of him.  The Trade and signings of Schmidt, Jones, Kemp, Ethier and others were some of the worst overpays ever.  Sometimes the best trades and signings are ones you DON’T MAKE!
  • White and Santana headed to AA Tulsa.  Man, is this farm system loaded!  Both of these guys are potential #3’s!

Posted by Mark Timmons

We started LA Dodger Talk in 2001. This site is about giving another perspective outside of the average day-to-day reporting. We don't do game recaps or such things -- lots of sites do that well. I value sabermetrics, but don't think they are the "end-all-be-all.". This is where you should start your day as a Dodger Fan. Welcome! We'd like to hear your voice.

This article has 101 Comments

  1. I agree, our farm system is loaded. We seem to have good catchers, pitchers, and outfielders in the system. Not as many infielders. However, with JT, Seager, Taylor, and Bellinger in the infield, we will not need any for 5 years.

    1. We need all the infielders we can get. They can always be converted to other positions. Depth, hard to ever have too much depth. Remember the I word?

  2. I have no idea whether FAZ made an offer to Detroit for JD, or whether Avila’s counteroffer included Calhoun or Verdugo. It appears that Detroit wanted middle infielders who have an ETA of at least two years. I would think that Gavin Lux, Drew Jackson, and Brandon Montgomery would have been a more than comparable offer. But the Dodgers do not have a surplus of middle infielders, and Lux may be too young to make a determination on for a rental. I can see why the Dodgers would have walked if all the Tigers wanted were middle infielders.
    .
    The Yankees acquisition of Frazier/Robertson/Kahnle was a good trade for them. Their losses (Blake Rutherford/Ian Clarkin/Tyler Clippard/Tito Polo) come from surpluses. The prize, Blake Rutherford, is blocked by Aaron Judge/Clint Frazier/Dustin Fowler/Jacoby Ellsbury/Aaron Hicks, so packaging him for a need in 2017 made sense to them. LHP Ian Clarkin could very well prove to be a quality prospect, a former #1 who is worth the gamble. Knowing they are not going anywhere, Clippard at least gives the ChiSox a veteran reliever who will allow their ever growing stable of pitching prospects more time to develop. Tito Polo was a deal balancing inclusion. For NYY, Robertson and Kahnle (especially) were the targets, and will be stalwarts in that pen. I would consider NYY bullpen the best in MLB (at least on paper). I do not believe Frazier helps them much at all, unless you go along with Ken Rosenthal and consider that the inclusion of Frazier takes him away from the BoSox. Bottom line, this was a good trade for both teams. It may not address NYY biggest problem (starting pitching), but it does put two more quality arms in the bullpen.
    .
    I read some angry Dodger fan comments on the JD trade, indicating that FAZ choked again. They could have put a much better package to get him, plus it would have kept him out of Arizona. Keeping JD out of Arizona is irrelevant. FAZ worries about their team and how to improve it…not derail some other team. JD will help Arizona, no doubt. But he is not an 11 game difference maker. The playoffs are not in question. What FAZ is working on is how to address perceived vulnerabilities of the Dodgers during the playoffs. Most teams are RH pitching dominant, including the Nationals, Brewers, and Cubs (even with Quintana). While both the Rockies and DBacks have quality lefties, only one of them can make NLDS. Adding JD does not address that need. There are some who think the Dodgers may be more interested in Jay Bruce just for that reason. The same scenario as to why Josh Reddick was considered last year (I know, I know, he did not play well as a Dodger, but the thought driven process was sound).
    .
    I would not be surprised to see the Dodgers trade for Justin Wilson, or Andrew McCutcheon/Felipe Rivero, or Sonny Gray, or Jay Bruce/Addison Reed, or Tony Watson and some reliever(s) many have never heard of, or nothing at all. The hard lifting has been done. Now it is the fine tuning, but one thing we all should have learned…FAZ will not do a desperate overpay.

  3. I see similarities between Reddick and Forsythe. Both are very good players who, for whatever reason, had/are having a tough time playing for the Dodgers. Maybe Forsythe would be better off going to another team, leaving Taylor at second.

    1. I have thought the same, however my thinking was more due to that with Taylor playing so well, the Dodgers may not want to exercise the $9M option on Logan for 2018, and gain some luxury tax relief. By trading him now, they would not lose him to FA and get nothing in return. But I still do not think FAZ wants to do anything that may disrupt the chemistry this team obviously has. Maybe the play has not been as stellar as we would have hoped, but he is a solid clubhouse personality and presence, and you can never have too many of those.

      1. The 2018 option has value, just not to the Dodgers because of Taylor. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Forsythe go at the deadline, if we get a right handed masher for left field.
        .
        Lots of potential playoff teams could use him, it looks to me that the Rays would love him back. They’d probably be happy to just send De Leon back for him. Instead maybe we could take a chance on Boxberger who has been injured, but has two more years of arb left. He is a righty, but potentially very good.

      2. A while back Kike’ made a bad play at third and wasn’t put back there until yesterday, I think. He looked good at third yesterday and as such, maybe Roberts is now more comfortable using Kike’ as the backup for Turner instead of only Forsythe.
        .
        If Kike’ fills the backup role for third, Forsythe is vulnerable to trade. Taylor and Utley would get all the games at second. That opens a spot in LF which could be McCutchen or Verdugo.
        .
        Maybe a three team trade is in the works that includes Forsythe and Calhoun.

    2. The Dodger brass is extremely happy with Logan Forsythe. For the year, his batting average is only .244, but he boasts a .369 OB% (5th on the team). He has had a huge impact to the team during July where he is hitting .300 with a .431 OB% and a .906 OPS. Plus, he is a dirtball (that’s a complement) and leader. He does lots of things that don’t show up in the box score. I’d rather he not hit 5th, but with the makeup of the team, it’s fine.

      Chris Taylor has to be in the lineup and so does Logan Forsythe right now. Taylor is the better hitter, but don;t underestimate Logan. He is opportunistic. Right about now, Logan is a very critical part of this team… both as a player and for chemistry.

      1. Mark

        I am glad Roberts took Forsythe out of the lead off position, and I hope Taylor still stays in the lead off position against lefties too, since he clobbers lefties, as much as Forsythe does.

        I don’t like Forsythe batting fifth either.

        He tries to over work his counts to much, and he is not an aggressive enough hitter for me, to hit fifth, so I would rather see him moved down in the order.

        But like you said, having him in the fifth position, hasn’t hurt the team, so it is not a big deal at this point.

        I don’t know if this is true, but I have heard that the Tigers have tended not to get enough prospects, or the right prospects, in some of their deals they have made at the trade deadline, in the last four, or five years.

        But their current GM has only been with the team, the last two years.

        I don’t even think our front office looked closely into getting Martinez, and that is because our outfielders have been a little more productive, lately.

        But I can see why some people felt that Martinez would be that bat that would up the team’s chances, to go further into post season.

        But I do think a dominate reliever or a leftie reliever, is something that we need, because non of the lefties in our pen have been that consistently good, this year.

        But if we can get a dominate rightie relief pitcher like Brach, that has been closing, I would be ok with someone like Brach, too.

        Because I still don’t think Baez is ready to handle the pressure in the post season, because he has never been that good, at coming into games, when runners are on base.

        And we can’t always bring Baez into game, in a clean inning, and he has not been good in the post season, for the last three years.

  4. Mark, I agree with you on Forsythe. He is a dirt ball player and so is Taylor. The other night Forsythe barreled the ball up four times and did not get a hit. We see 0-4 and FAZ with their stats sees something else. I hope we keep Forsythe. Let him go after we win the WS, if they want.

    I just want to comment on the leadership on the Dodger team. It all starts with Doc. He talked to them the other day about playing better small ball. He is on them, in a nice way, about getting better. The coaching staff is great. I believe JT, Utley, Kershaw and Agon are the leaders on the team. They all lead by example. That is by far the best way to lead. I just love to watch Utley when he hits a ground ball. He is busting it to first base all the way. Great to be a Dodger fan.

    Taylor has great speed. The other day when he hit that triple. I thought he may have a chance for a triple. When the camera came back to the runner he was standing on third. The announcers said if the outfielders did not field the ball cleanly he would of had a home run.

    1. While I don’t love him batting 5th we tend to forget that Logan pretty much had to restart his season after his injuries. I believe he came off the DL with a 1 for 30 streak or something close. He’s a plus defender.

      Kike’s swings had looked horrible for about 3 weeks until Ozuna robbed him of a dinger. Good to see him do something last night.

  5. Remarkable the Dodgers have given up 308 runs. All other NL teams but one have given up at least 100 more

  6. The Rockies went home and have won 4 in a row and yesterday was a pounding of the Pads. Of course they gained no ground on the Dodgers but passed Az. Cubs have won 6 straight and the Brewers lost 4 straight and their lead is down to 1.5 games. Cubs are 5 out of the last WC but are reeling the Brewers in. Nats have an 11 game lead but would be 8 behind the Dodgers. Houston has a ridiculous 15.5 game lead but would be 3 games behind the Dodgers.

    I have said how soft the July schedule was but even I did not think they would just keep sweeping everyone! That’s what good teams do, they don’t make the schedule. The Braves have cooled off and get the Dodgers best pitchers. The Twins are in a dogfight and are just 2 games over .500. Then an off day, Giants for 3 and another off day as the complete their homestand and end July. In August there are just 2 winning teams to play: 6 in Az and 3 at home against the Brewers. Both have cooled off a lot recently. They play 19 away and only 8 home games in Aug, but get the Braves, Mets, Padres, Chisox, Tigers and Pirates.

    Even Roberts has said this team does not need much, perhaps a good LHRP. He is giving Ryu a start and said for a time they will go with a 6 man rotation. Dayton coming back could be big if he is effective. I have to believe they will still do a trade for bullpen help but prefer someone with some team control without giving up their top prospects, so the haggling continues. Please hold onto Buehler, Verdugo, Calhoun and Peters! I am not sure about Alvaraz but they invested $16M in him. I don’t think White or Stewart are going anywhere either.

    1. No reason to think Dayton won’t be solid. He has been for awhile now.
      .
      Looks like Dodgers continue to tinker with Ryu as he continues to tighten everything up in his comeback, he could also be the LHRP we need. And can’t forget about Liberatore, injured but nothing structurally wrong, looks like FAZ is playing the long game with him, to hopefully have him available at playoff time. Options, lots of options, it’s the FAZ way, but the Rivero option sure would look good in Dodger Blue.
      .
      FAZ must also be monitoring this potential “fire sale”. One man’s loss is another man’s gain.
      .
      https://www.sbnation.com/2017/7/19/16001784/giancarlo-stanton-marlins-not-happy-losing-phillies-no-trade-clause

  7. I don’t consider the Matt Kemp signing to a bad one. Consider the year he had in 2011 and the triple crown start he had in 2012. The only thing that derailed Matt Kemp’s career were the totally unpredictable injuries that hit him in 2012. And if memory serves, he had the ankle injury and subsequent surgery in 2013. And “unpredictable” the injuries were, if you take into account that his fist visit to the DL in 2012 followed a steak of 399 consecutive games played.
    Calling the signing a bad one is correct, but only with the aid of 20-20 hindsight.

  8. Unless Friedman believes that the NL will be adopting the DH soon, I think the Dodgers would be more inclined to hold onto Alvarez than Calhoun. But what do I know, since I’ve hardly seen either of them play. Besides, whatever they do, I have confidence in the Dodgers braintrust.

    1. I am on record that I think the NL will adopt the DH within 2 years… maybe next year.

      I think it’s the only major sports organization that has a different rule for each league.

      In fact, I’d like to see it expanded in it’s use.

    2. You could be right, but Alvaraz is not dominating at High A while Calhoun has performed well in AA and improved again this year in AAA. He has worked hard on his fielding and has been playing LF recently plus his normal 2B. He has a lot of pop for a 2B and could platoon with either Forsythe or Taylor next year. He could also compete with Toles for a LH spot in LF next year. His bat could overcome a lot of anxiety over his glove. I prefer they keep both but Calhoun is a lot closer to the bigs. I would love to see the DH come to the NL, it’s long overdue.

    3. While I’m not a fan of the DH I know it’s going to be coming to the NL before too long. Probably with the next CBA. Now if they could just limit mound visits and pitcher substitutions….

      1. Screw the DH! If you can’t play defense you should be exposed for it. I don’t think it’s coming.

        1. I tend to agree about the fielding part, but it has extended some careers like Ortiz for example. It’s more to not have to watch pitchers hit and aligning both leagues with the same rules for me.

          1. I’d rather watch a young kid get a shot than say someone like Dave Parker hang around to long to DH. Ortiz should have had to play 1st or retire in my opinion, but then again I’m harder on him than most because I think he was a cheater.

  9. Anyone know anything about Dodger prospect Melvin Jimenez? 17 year old (maybe 18) just moved to A ball….

    1. I know his ERA in the DSL last year was 1.47 with just 35 hits in 55 innings and 66 K’s to go with just 18 BB.

      Last year, he was just as starter. This year, so far, he has been a reliever and his stats are even better!

      He’s slight at 6′ 0″ – 170

      Dodger’s Digest has this:

      The Dodgers signed Jimenez out of the Dominican Republic two days before Christmas in 2015. So far, the investment has been worth it. He was flat-out dominant in the Dominican Summer League, striking out 30.8 percent of the hitters he faced. He also had a 50 percent ground ball rate. But, most impressive, is the fact he didn’t allow a home run in 55 innings. Granted, power isn’t exactly plentiful in the DSL, but Jimenez kept the ball in the yard and missed bats. He’ll need to perform well outside of complex ball to have a chance of rocketing up the rankings. He’s probably not done growing at just 17 years old, which means there could be some projection left in him. Jimenez definitely a guy to watch going forward.
      Best tool: Fastball
      2017 location: AZL Dodgers
      ETA: 2023


      From what I understand he can dial it up to 95+ and some project him to be able to hit 100 MPH. That’s all I know.

  10. Another reliever traded to help establish the market; although Jerry Dipoto does not mind overpaying to get his player. David Phelps goes from the Marlins to the Mariners. In exchange, Miami gets in return:
    19 year old OF Brayan Hernandez – Mariner #6 – ETA 2020.
    22 year old RHP Brandon Miller – Mariner #16 – ETA 2019
    21 year old RHP Pablo Lopez – Mariner #22 – ETA 2019
    23 year old RHP Lukas Schiraldi – Not in Mariner top 30. Turns 24 next week and is in HIgh A (Modesto of California League).
    .
    Three top 30 prospects for David Phelps, who is not a closer. This year, Phelps has pitched 47 innings in 44 games (no saves). His ERA is 3.45, FIP is 3.69, WHIP is 1.340. He is 30, and has one year of arbitration before he hits FA after 2018. If that is the market for Phelps, I have to wonder what it might be for Justin Wilson, or Felipe Rivero.

    1. Count me in the group that “has no idea” but, this seems like a serious overpay. What am I missing? Can the Dodgers do some more trades with Dipoto?

  11. I felt the same way about Seattle AC. They over pay often. I thought they needed starting pitching more than relief.

  12. It’s a matter of leverage. The greater the market and the rarer the commodity, the higher the price. There are other intangibles of course; your team’s level of desperation and need, what the other team wants back from you, the salary of the player to be traded and years of team control, etc.

    The advantages to pulling the trigger early on a deadline deal, if you are going to make one are:
    1 – more weeks of the acquired player to help
    2 – greater selection of players to choose from

    The Braintrust has tended to wait until the last minute to make these deals in the past. If the Dodgers are going to obtain a lefty for the late innings I am hoping that they don’t wait until there is no selection and the seller has the team over a barrel – sooner is better.

  13. The Red Sox paid Yoan Moncada a $31.5 million dollar signing bonus. He was the linchpin of the Chris Sale trade. He is 22 years old and here are his stats in AAA before he was called up this week:

    12 HR
    36 RBI
    9 Doubles
    102 K
    49 BB
    .282 BA
    .377 OB%
    .823 OPS

    He is considered one of the TOP PROSPECTS in baseball.

    The Dodgers signed Willie Calhoun, who is also 22 for a $400,000 signing bonus. Look at his AAA stats:

    20 HR
    61 RBI
    24 Doubles
    46 K
    28 BB
    .307 BA
    .358 OB%
    .942 OPS

    Now, we know there is an issue with his fielding, but if you look at the bat only – I can make an excellent argument that he is better than Moncada and if he is, why in the hell would you give him away?

    I keep Willie Calhoun and Alex Verdugo. PERIOD! I am not sure where Willie will play, but he can hit – as good as any prospect. With his body type, he is going to have to dedicate himself to conditioning, but his bat is AWESOME!

    He is likely a better hitter than McCutchen RIGHT NOW! He’s hitting .291 against LH pitching.

      1. I can still beat him in a race, and my glove is better but what he has done with the bat is extra-ordinary! I have to respect that. He would be a fine DH.

  14. 2016 ROY – Corey Seager
    2017 ROY – Cody Bellinger
    2018 ROY – Willie Calhoun or Alex Verdugo
    2019 ROY – Kay Bear
    2020 – DJ Peters

    1. Is Buehler not on your list because you think he will get called up and play enough this year so as not to qualify for 2018 ROY?

      1. It’s hard for a pitcher to be ROY, He could make it, but I typically don’t put pitchers in that category.

  15. Who I would trade is Alvarez. His ceiling is high but his basement is low. I would offer three (3) of the following for Brach or Rivero (pick ’em):

    Alvarez
    Ryu
    Oaks
    Barlow
    Sheffield

  16. DODGERS REINSTATE GRANT DAYTON

    LOS ANGELES
    – The Los Angeles Dodgers today reinstated left-handed pitcher Grant Dayton from the 10-day disabled list and designated right-handed pitcher Sergio Romo for assignment.

    Dayton, who missed 11 games due to neck stiffness, last pitched on Monday with Single-A Rancho Cucamonga tossing a scoreless frame with a strikeout. In two rehab appearances with the Quakes and Rookie-Level AZL Dodgers, he pitched 2.0 scoreless frames with three strikeouts against one walk. In 27 relief appearances with the Dodgers this season, he has gone 1-1 with a 3.63 ERA (9 ER/22.1 IP) and has struck out 20 batters against 12 walks, while holding batters to a .171 average.

    Romo, who made 30 relief appearances with the Dodgers, went 1-1 with a 6.12 ERA (17 ER/25.0 IP) with 31 strikeouts against 12 walks.

    Happy Days are Here Again – Sergio is gone!

  17. Before I kept saying we could trade Calhoun. He was blocked at second. If we have the DH next year, I can now see keeping him. I could part ways with 3-5 players you mentioned Mark for a good left hander. If we make a trade it is going to hurt. Romo, Hatcher and Gutierrez were the three we needed to lose to make this team strong. Hatcher and Gutierrez will not play again for the Dodgers this year. The thing FAZ and Doc do is play these guys enough til they play hemselves off the team. They cannot bitch they were not given a chance.

  18. Mark, might have to get a couple t-shirts made, let me know if I need to send you one

  19. I was rooting for Romo, a lifelong Dodger fan, to shine in Dodger Blue. Welter to Middleweight Romo beat the odds for a long time and had an outstanding MLB career, but agree, time to move on!

  20. Dang Dodgers. Just when you think you can trust them to never lose another game, they lose one. I am done rooting for the Dodgers. Sorry. Just kidding.

    1. They don’t think they really have advanced fielding stats on AAA players, but Calhoun has made 6 errors at second this year.

      I noticed his isolated power is 273 that is good.

    2. From what I’ve read from baseball people is that he’s improved his body and defense but has a long way to go to be an average MLB defender. While I would love to have a Tree Trunks Calhoun on the roster, I wouldn’t hesitate to trade him.

  21. OK, I am pretty sure he can play DH and I think Andrew knows that the DH is coming to the NL very soon (don’t hate me Hawkeye). You can’t put him at 1B when you have a guy that might be the best First Baseman in the history of the game there. He would scare me in LF but maybe he can play it.

    Here’s what I know: He can’t play 2B.

    It might be 2 years for the DH… but it’s coming and so are a bunch of other changes like Electronic balls and strikes, pitch clock and new substitution rules.

    1. Since the AL already has the DH it would cost Calhoun hundreds of thousands of dollars to hold him back at AAA waiting for the NL to install the DH. Sitting on the bench in the MLB trying to get pinch hit opportunities would also cost Calhoun as well because come ARB1, he won’t get as much as he would if he got there as a DH.
      .
      Do him a favor and trade him to an AL team.

    2. Mark Timmons: “Hawkeye). You can’t put him at 1B when you have a guy that might be the best First Baseman in the history of the game there”.
      .
      Not to mention that the Tree Trunks have the length of a Bonsai Tree.

    3. I’m with you on Electronic balls and strikes. Never on the DH. Hope you had a nice Anniversary.

    1. I’m all in on Darvish. I don’t trust McCarthy or Maeda in a big game. The only prospect that should be untouchable is Buehler. I’ve have totally been with FAZ the last few years with sticking with the plan. This is the year to make a move. I would prefer not to move Alvarez or Verdugo, but it is tough to dub them untouchable. Calhoun is an AL player no matter how much work he is putting in at AAA. I would deal Maeda. He has value to team where Ryu probably does not with only one year left on his deal. I might put Ruiz in the untradeable group and trade Smith or Farmer.

      Farmer
      Smith
      Thompson
      Oaks
      Maeda
      SVS
      Calhoun
      Forsythe
      Sborz
      Rios
      Peters
      Santana
      Spitzbarth
      Garlick
      Sierra
      Stripling
      Morrow
      Diaz
      Rhame
      Barlow
      Sheffield
      Alexy
      Ferguson

      There is plenty of talent on the above list to go improve the team and that’s without White, Alvarez, Buehler, Ruiz, and Verdugo. If Alvarez or Verdugo have to be moved to put the Dodgers over the top this is the year to do it. If the front office believes in Toles, then Verdugo is expendable in the right deal.

      1. Hawkeye, I do not disagree that this is the year to go for it, and I do not disagree with your “untouchables”. I have heard that Dodger scouts were out for both Sonny Gray’s and Justin Verlander’s last outing. I have not heard of any interest on Darvish. The Dodgers are reluctant to pay the going price for a rental, and there is no chance that the Dodgers will re-sign him as they thought they could and did with Rich Hill. Darvish has indicated to the Rangers that he wants Stephen Strasburg dollars, and the Rangers are not interested (nor would the Dodgers be). That is why Darvish is now available, and Hamels is definitely not.
        .
        The Tigers are now saying that teams can trade for Verlander and the Tigers will pay all of the remaining 2017 salary ($10M+). So far no takers because teams want $25M – $30M off. I cannot see the Dodgers going for Verlander unless they had to take him to get Wilson. The prospect cost would be less than if they went after Wilson by himself, but that would still present a luxury tax concern next year, so I do not think that is a viable deal.
        .
        That would leave Sonny Gray as the only remaining top of the rotation starter available. The A’s do not have that lefty lock down reliever so that would make a multiple player deal like Verlander/Wilson impossible. But the two teams do have a good working relationship, and neither team was fleeced with last year’s trade. Sonny Gray is a possibility, but the prospect cost may just be too much.
        .
        What is more important, the solid top of the rotation starter (Gray/Darvish/Verlander) or the lock down lefty reliever of which there are only two, Wilson and Britton? I cannot see the Dodgers trading with SD for Hand. Maeda could be a trade prospect to any of the teams (especially Baltimore). I would not expect him to start in the playoffs, so he would not be missed by the Dodgers in October. He would give the receiving team a very team friendly and affordable contract. He is team controlled through 2023.
        .
        While a LHRP would be best, a reliever who can get left and right handed hitters out could work. That puts Pat Neshek and Addison Reed in the equation. Both rentals, but FAZ does not seem to be opposed to rental relievers. Britton and Brach would be a good haul together from Baltimore, but some RH reliever would have to be moved in that deal. And no, they would not want Hatcher. As much as I like Brandon Morrow, I think he could flourish in Baltimore. Maeda/Morrow/Avilan/Calhoun/Rios for Britton and Brach? The Dodgers still assume the injury potential for Britton and a healthy arbitration cost next year. They would trade a ML starter, 2 ML relievers, and two top 30 (including 1 top 100). That gives Baltimore 2018 options as well as future considerations, as 2018 will be their last shot for awhile.

        1. I agree Neshek could come into play. This front office tried signing him once before.

          I could see that deal working but I tend to think Baltimore would want a young starter rather than both Morrow and Avilan.

  22. Interesting.
    Just read Box’s article above from DD and then read some of the comments.
    Makes this place look very good.
    He makes a good point. I don’t see McCarthy as a big game playoff pitcher.
    We might get away with 3, Kershaw, Wood & Hill, but a 4th would be useful.
    I think the plan was to use Urias, who they were keeping fresh. as one of 4 post season starters. I think they only have 3 now.
    What would it take to land Verlander & Wilson?

    1. Verlander is having a rough year with a big contract. I would absolutely trust him over Mac or Maeda in a playoff game, but let’s not forget that the front office is hell bent on re-setting the luxury tax penalty next season. Any deals with Verlander or Stanton would take some creativity. I would rather have Darvish or Lynn.

  23. Hawkeye, I agree with you. This is the year. I like Darvish, but I think we need a LHRP first. I was hoping McCarthy would have a good year. He still may. He certainly did not look good last night. It all depends on what the other teams want from us. I just do not think anyone is going to want Ryu, Maeda or McCarthy. If we cannot move at least two of those for a starting pitcher, then I see no reason to trade for a starting pitcher.

    1. I’m all in on Britton and Darvish. If they get Wison or Hand I’m good with that too. Maybe the O’Malley’s ties with SD will make it less tough to deal within the division. McCarthy has some value with an affordable year left on his contract plus a team option. Maeda signed an 8-year deal with only $3 million guaranteed each year, he has to have value to small market teams or any team with no pitching and I see teams like Texas and Baltimore falling into that category.

      The Dodgers shouldn’t get into a position where they have to wonder if they should continue to push Kershaw on short rest come post-season. Kershaw, Darvish, Wood, and Hill looks post-season ready to me. I don’t trust Maeda and McCarthy in the post-season. I trust Ryu more than Maeda in that sitution. Maeda doesn’t strike me as mentally tough. I think Darvish will thrive in LA and will love having Grandal catching him. I read Lucroy was the worst pitch framer in baseball this year.

        1. That would include, Calhoun/Verdugo/Farmer/Rios/Avilan (Rehab)/and Buehler (no way). Fillers could include Scott Barlow, Joe Broussard, Josh Ravin, Jacob Rhame, Yaisel Sierra (too costly), Drew Maggi. But OKC is not loaded with a lot of players who are ML ready.

  24. Mc Carthy has been very good until July. Here are his monthly splits:
    April – 3 – 0, 3.10, 1.21 WHIP, 29IP/25K
    May – 2 – 1, 3.57, .91 WHIP, 17IP/16K
    June – 1 – 2, 3.20, 1.14 WHIP, 25IP/16K
    July – 0 – 1, 6.75, 1.84 WHIP, 14IP/9K

    Hard to know if this is just regression or a bad month or blisters or what. His K/9 has been down 2 months in a row, but there hasn’t been anything alarming until recently. Do you make a move given this?

    One point made at DD and other places is that it isn’t just performance by Hill, McCarthy, Maeda and Ryu (inconsistency), but also unreliability. Who will be healthy enough to pitch well come October? This is the risk inherent in a staff manned by the old and infirm.

    I would make the move for the lefty reliever first. Liberatore may not be back this year; Dayton is not reliable and Avilan won’t be used in high leverage situations.

    Does a Yu Darvish or a Sonny Gray make sense? Maybe, but I suspect that you won’t see them wearing Dodger Blue this October. No to Verlander – he hasn’t been good this year. (5 – 7, 4.54, 1.47 WHIP, .256 BAA)

    1. Can’t say I loved Utley hitting leadoff last night. I like Chase, but I could think of 7 other guys in the lineup last night getting more AB’s than him in a game.

      1. Hawkeye

        I like Chase too, but I still wanted Taylor leading off.

        I think Corey might get some better pitches to hit, with Taylor on the base.

        1. Completely agree, MJ. I know that analytics tend to downplay the value of stealing bases (a la Mike Socia’s Angels). However, with a guy like Taylor on first base, Corey should definitely see more fastballs.

  25. I think if it’s a good idea to go for Verlander, the playoffs are a very different tournament to the regular season, no matter how well or poorly you played during 162 games, what matters is winning that seventh game to advance to world series. And there is where Verlander needs for his experience, no matter what numbers he has at the moment!

    This team is going to qualify to playoffs, so JV can throw only 5 innings and rest enough to be ready to the post season: CLayton K, Alex W, Justin V and Rich H. It would be a great rotation, and I also think that we really need a right handed batter with power, I do not trust Puig in playoffs, I can imagine him failing the first pitch or hitting for double play!

    1. I agree on Verlander. I think he would be a totally different pitcher in LA than he is in Detroit. He would have something to pitch for and prove. He is also a tested playoff pitcher that can be counted on more than anyone other than Kershaw. Verlander would not be needed for the regular season, so keep him fresh for the playoffs.
      .
      But I would have a lot of hesitation because of the luxury tax implications for next year. If they work out of it for 2018, 2019 would not be a problem because AGon would be moving on.
      .
      But I would not want Verlander without Justin Wilson.

      1. They would have to agree to take Kazmir and pay Verlander’s 2018 salary or at least a portion along with some prospects.

      2. Verlander still pretty much has some decent velocity he lost it for a season, because he was coming back, from an oblique surgery I believe it was.

        And he is a fighter, and he probably should have won the Cy Young last year, in the American League.

  26. I’ve been wanting Darvish for a while.

    But to be honest, he’s had 2 playoff starts. 1 solid, and 1 not so good. So it’s not like we’re getting Madison Bumgarner or anything.

    However, I still trust his stuff in the NL for the rest of the year way more than I do McCarthy, Maeda, Ryu, etc.

    1. Thank you Jorge! That was a nice read and a reminder this team is pretty good as is. Kersh, Wood and Hill match up pretty well with Sherzer, Strasberg and Gonzales. Their #4 is Roarke, so take whoever is pitching best from Mac, Maeda or Ryu for a game 4 start. A couple seasons ago our #3 in the playoffs was Ballerina Brett! I don’t see a RH bat worth making a move for after Pitts swept 4 from the Brewers going from 7 to 3 back they may not be inclined to do Cutch or Rivero. That leaves a LHRP and there appear to be lots of suiters for Wilson, the Pads may not want to give LA a helping Hand, and that leaves Watson or Britton. Watson won’t cost much and may not help much either. The O’s scouts have been watching OKC games and it may come down to price and team physical whether the Dodgers pull the trigger on a Britton deal. But if they do nothing at all I understand and would still make the team a favorite in any post season series, even the Astros.

      1. Sounds like SD is asking for a Chapman like return on Hand at this time. Of course that could change closer to the deadline.

    1. My reflex is to just say no but that trade gives up none of the guys I care about (unless Maeda is needed to recruit Otani) and Kazmir balances out some payroll along with Maeda. Sheffield and Alvaraz have generally disappointed so far despite electric arms and oaks is a 5 at best. For this year it would help the team in 2 areas plus give some playoff experience to the rotation. It would be nice to see Kate Upton behind home plate too.

    2. I’m not sure if Verlander can/would have a resurgence in LA but if you substituted McCarthy for Maeda I would even include Calhoun to make that trade happen and take a chance on JV with the addition of Wilson.
      .
      I think there is possibly something to be said about keeping Maeda, re: Otani.

  27. Did you see what Puig did in his first at bat? First pitch and double play !!
    That’s exactly why I do not trust him, that’s exactly why we really NEED A GOOD RIGHT HANDED BATTER!!

    1. That is Puig’s 17 double play this year, he leads the team.

      He is always trying to get a hit in between the 5 and 6 there.

      He hits much better if he hits to the right side.

    2. I’ll bite, who is the RH batter you would go after and what do you think it would take to get him?

      Puig has hit into way too many DP’s and needs to elevate the ball more in those situations. Pitchers are trying to get a ground ball and a hitter can just lay off the pitch in that situation of a 1st pitch. He has generally hit the ball hard on his DP’s but agree with MJ he does better going the other way.

      A Grand Slam by Garcia who was supposed to be traded before tonight’s game? The Braves manager saying the baseball gods might be ready to ‘even things out’ is sounding eerily profound. Oh well, we still have a big lead and now the trade speculations will become louder.

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